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The Brief with Jim Sciutto
Scramble For Aid in Gaza; Trump Considering New Sanctions On Moscow; Trump Accuses Putin Of "Playing With Fire"; Liverpool Crash Suspect Arrested For Attempted Murder; Trump Looks To Cancel Remaining Harvard Contracts; Pause On Student Visa Screenings; Another Former Assistant Testifies In Combs Trial; Iran's Grand Strategy; 2025 French Open. Aired 6- 7p ET
Aired May 27, 2025 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. And you are watching
"The Brief."
Just ahead this hour, after weeks of hunger, chaos erupts on the first day of a U.S.-backed aid distribution plan in Southern Gaza, thousands of
Palestinians stormed the site, tearing down fencing just to get to what they needed to sit -- to live. President Trump accuses Russian President
Putin of playing with fire, in his words, as he reportedly weighs new sanctions on Moscow. We're going to go live to Kyiv for reaction. And the
U.S. State Department orders a pause on all student visa interviews as it expands, vetting of social media. All of that, and plenty more coming up.
We begin today in Gaza where thousands of Palestinians desperate for help and the most basic supplies overran a new aid site there. Video shows
crowds tearing down fencing as they tried just to get food. The site is run by the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, a new a group by U.S. and Israel,
which has faced criticism for, among other things, limiting aid distribution to certain areas.
Israel had imposed a blockade on aid in Gaza for about 11 weeks, pushing people there to the very brink. Humanitarian organizations say that chaos
should not be surprising given those conditions. Jeremy Diamond has more from Jerusalem.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Chaotic scenes at a newly opened aid distribution site in Southern Gaza. Thousands of Palestinians
desperate for food, overrunning this newly opened site, even prompting the withdrawal of the American security contractors who were manning this site.
You can see in videos from the scene as crowds of Palestinians go over some of the barriers, break down the fences, all in a bid to grab some of the
last remaining food parcels at this newly opened location.
This marks the first full day of operations for the controversial Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, which is a U.S. and Israeli approved aid mechanism
for getting aid into Gaza in a way that Israeli authorities will accept. Its only existence is because Israeli authorities won't let aid into Gaza
via the traditional humanitarian aid channels, accusing Hamas of stealing the aid. That's an allegation that Hamas denies and also that these
humanitarian aid agencies say simply doesn't check out with the reality on the ground.
But nonetheless, this Gaza Humanitarian Foundation is beginning to ramp up. In fact, they say that they have control of this site once again, and they
plan to resume operations at that very same site on Wednesday. But major questions still remain about their ability to actually alleviate what is a
clear hunger crisis in the Gaza Strip.
In fact, even after one week of Israel allowing limited quantities of aid into Gaza in order to alleviate some of the pressure before this new
mechanism gets into place, we are seeing these scenes of chaos at this newly established site that show that hunger still grips so much of Gaza's
population.
In Northern Gaza, the situation is even worse as very few aid trucks have actually been able to make their way to the northern part of the Strip. The
Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, their four distribution sites will be in Southern and in Central Gaza. They claim that they will have two more sites
in the northern part of the Strip within their first month of operations, but that remains to be seen.
Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Joining me now is Hani Almadhoun. He's the co-founder of the Gaza Soup Kitchen. Sir, good to speak to you again.
HANI ALMADHOUN, CO-FOUNDER, GAZA SOUP KITCHEN: Good to be seen by you, Jim. How are you?
SCIUTTO: Hani, when you see those scenes of people just storming aid out of desperation, is that necessary? Is it necessary for people to get food that
way today in Gaza?
[18:05:00]
ALMADHOUN: I mean, the report said that Palestinians are hungry. They're actually being starved for 80 plus days. Israel denied the Palestinians
food, complete blockade. I've heard the talking points about militant groups seizing aid, and that just doesn't add up. It's what the Israeli
politicians say in Hebrew where they say this is, we're using it as a pressure mechanism to get the Palestinians to do certain things.
Obviously, the U.S. and Israel consulted nobody about this Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, and it is further dragging America back into the
abyss, because this is really one of the final chapters of the ethnic cleansing and Gaza, and I am worried. I know my family is being starved in
North Gaza. But the people in the south, the images we've seen, we're not surprised. You remember, this is not the first time where go it alone
bypass the U.N., bypass the humanitarian NGOs. If you remember the flour massacre, that happened last year when there was some cowboys wanting to
work on their own. And that's what happens. You start up the Palestinians and then you blame them and you expect them to be in their best behavior.
You know, I remember people fighting over a carton of eggs in Costco. So, I wish -- make no mistake, the Palestinians need aid, UNRWA and other U.N.
agencies have more than 9,000 trucks waiting to be allowed in. And so, far, Israel allowed less than 500 trucks in 85 days.
SCIUTTO: Well, let me ask you, because I recently spoke to the U.S. ambassador to Israel, Mike Huckabee, and he defended this new aid
distribution program. I want to play his comments about it and get your reaction on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE HUCKABEE, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO ISRAEL: If you really care about feeding people, why do you care what kind of truck takes it in there? And the point
is that the GHF is taking it in without the IDF controlling it or distributing it. They provide obviously the necessary security on the
perimeters of the war zone. But these are humanitarian efforts and everyone ought to get behind it, governments, individuals, NGOs, and the U.N.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: So, Hani, how do you respond to his description of this new aid distribution program?
ALMADHOUN: Well, this new mechanism is another way to further subjugate the Palestinians in Gaza. This is where they rob them out of dignity. You've
seen the horrifying images. Some people liken it to those who passed Germany. This is unacceptable. The U.S. should be feeding people, not
starving them. This is what's happening. These security guards are not invited. They're not welcome. There is professionals who know how to
deliver this aid.
We -- the last we need is more guns in Gaza. These guys introduce a toxic mix. They're not -- they are -- they're not impartial. They violate a
number of humanitarian principles where in fact, there was a young man who was detained or abducted as he tried to get food for his family. I believe
his name is Mohammad Musa (ph), by the Israeli army.
So, this goes to show, look, we need more aid in Gaza, but there is a lot of people who know how to do this in a very -- and remember, Jim, this is
not just the U.N. against this. Over the weekend, Save the Children, went out against it, CARE, just released a statement. In fact, the folks whose
label was on the boxes that these contractors or the mercenaries, like some people call had the organization came out and said, these were stolen
humanitarian aid, were not approved, were not part of this mechanism.
It's unfortunate that we are pretending this is complicated. The only way, Jim, to stop the looting in Gaza is to allow more aid. When the bag of
flour is $5, nobody wants to loot anymore. When it's $600, my own dad will go loot it because they do not have any of it. So, this is sort of like --
that's why the U.N. is a better system to deliver this aid.
And not just that, it's also cost effective. A fifth -- you guys, 50 percent of the dollars they're spending and wasting, by the way, we don't
know who's funding these guys. 50 percent is spent on these bodyguards and logistics. At the U.N., they do that for a fraction of the coast, and
sadly, the American taxpayer will be paying for this.
SCIUTTO: Hani Almadhoun, I know you're speaking from experience and your time feeding the people of Gaza. So, thanks so much for joining us.
ALMADHOUN: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Very well, President Donald Trump is once again considering imposing new sanctions on Russia in the coming days, people familiar with
the matter tell CNN. The president said on social media, quote, "What Vladimir Putin does not realize is that if it weren't for me, lots of
really bad things would already have happened to Russia, and I mean really bad. He's playing with fire."
[18:10:00]
In Europe, the German chancellor announced that Ukraine's allies in Europe have lifted restrictions on where Ukraine can fire western supplied long-
range weapons, how far into Russia. The Kremlin calls that move a dangerous decision. This follows a weekend of just devastating Russian aerial attacks
across Ukraine, killing some 30 people, leaving a trail of fires, like you see there, destruction. Ukrainian officials reported new attacks yet again
overnight, which killed two more people.
Joining me now is Oleksandr Merezhko. He's the chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee in Ukraine's Parliament, and he joins us from Kyiv with, well,
his own personal experience of these attacks. Thanks so much for joining.
OLEKSANDR MEREZHKO, CHAIR OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE, UKRAINIAN PARLIAMENT: Thank you for inviting me.
SCIUTTO: First, let me ask you about Trump now holding out the possibility at least of opposing sanctions on Russia. As you know, he's held out that
possibility for months now, but has not followed through. And I wonder how you believe Vladimir Putin interprets that long delay.
MEREZHKO: The truth is that Putin is emboldened by this delay because this decision to impose sanctions against Russia are long overdue. And President
Trump, he initially promised when he came up with his first ceasefire proposal, and despite this, despite this idea, and despite his promise,
he's continuing to sort of -- to drag his feet on this decision. And we hope that finally his words will be matched with concrete actions.
SCIUTTO: Do you find it credible that Trump is seriously considering some sanctions now, considering how many times he has raised this possibility? I
mean, do you sense a real substantive change?
MEREZHKO: I do hope that he will finally do what he promised long ago. But of course, the thing is that, unfortunately, the credibility of his
statements has been undermined and what we see, Putin is -- doesn't believe that these statements by President Trump are credible enough. So, that's
why it's -- there is a crucial need for President Trump to prove that he's serious about his threats to use sanctions against Russia.
SCIUTTO: You lived through this weekend strikes and many more before in the Ukrainian capital. Is there anything fundamentally different or crazier, to
use Trump's words, between how Russia is acting now and how it has acted since the start of its full-scale invasion more than three years ago?
MEREZHKO: As far as we can remember President Trump, just a week ago, he addressed Putin with words, stop, Vladimir, stop. But we can see that
Vladimir didn't stop and he has no intention to stop. And you know, there is nothing new. What happened a few days ago, because we have been living
in Ukraine, in Kyiv and in other cities for years in this nightmare.
And the last air raids against Ukraine, against Kyiv in particular where I live, they were more intense. But the truth is that these crimes have been
continuing for more than three years. It's the good news that President Trump has finally noticed these crimes, but it's definitely not enough.
SCIUTTO: CNN reported just a couple of weeks ago that Russia is massing forces on Ukraine's border for a possible new large offensive. Do you
expect Putin to -- and in fact, expand the war in Ukraine? Is he more likely to expand it than to, for instance, agree to go to the negotiating
table?
MEREZHKO: I don't believe that Putin is interested in serious negotiations in earnest. He's using negotiations only to avoid sanctions from the United
States. And of course, from what we see Putin is amassing forces and he's preparing new offenses. And from our perspective, this is his response to
Mr. Trump's initiatives and ceasefire proposals.
So, it very clearly demonstrates that Putin is not interested in negotiations, and the only way to deal with him is by applying pressure and
implementing more sanctions.
SCIUTTO: Well, Oleksandr Merezhko, it's always a pleasure to have you on, and as I always say, I wish you safety in the midst of these ongoing
attacks.
MEREZHKO: Thank you.
[18:15:00]
SCIUTTO: Well, in the U.K., the suspect accused of hitting a Liverpool crowd with a car on Monday has now been arrested for attempted murder. At
least 65 people were injured. Police say they do not believe that this was terrorism. They're not treating it as such. Our Nic Robertson has more from
Liverpool.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): A day later, Liverpool police searching for clues. Forensic teams scouring
streets still littered from the soccer cup celebrations abruptly ended as a vehicle plowed into the crowds. The police calling it attempted murder.
DETECTIVE CHIEF SUPERINTENDENT KAREN JAUNDRILL, MERSEYSIDE POLICE: We have arrested a 53-year-old man from West Darby on suspicion of attempted
murder, dangerous driving offenses, and driving whilst unfit through drugs. He remains in custody where he's being interviewed.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Hundreds of thousands of fans proudly crowded the streets as their team aboard an open top bus took a 10-mile tour showing
off their latest trophy. How the driver got among them answered by the police.
ASSISTANT CHIEF CONSTABLE JENNY SIMS, MERSEYSIDE POLICE: It is believed the driver of the Ford Galaxy car involved in this incident was able to follow
an ambulance onto Water Street. After the roadblock was temporarily lifted so that the ambulance crew could attend to a member of the public who was
having a suspected heart attack.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): The city still in shock.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it was a terrible thing what happened yesterday. It shouldn't happen anywhere on any event or celebrations. And I was just
getting text messages from people back home to see if they were safe. Felt disgusted after it when I heard. Because I didn't know was (INAUDIBLE)
kids, and if anybody was there.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Firefighters pulled four victims, including a child from under a vehicle. 65 people injured. Police say 50 of them taken to
hospital, 11 of them remain there, they say, for treatment. They described their condition as recovering. The British prime minister among many to pay
their tribute to the victims.
KEIR STARMER, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: My thoughts and the thoughts of the whole country with all of those that are affected. Liverpool stands
together and the whole country stands with Liverpool.
ROBERTSON: The police now do seem to have a good sense of how this happened and who was responsible, less so why. But what is clear? It's going to be
long after this police tape comes down, the crime scene is cleared, the street is open before the people of Liverpool can really come to terms with
a terrible tragedy. That unfolded here.
Nic Roberson, CNN, Liverpool.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Still ahead, President Trump's new attack on Harvard and a series of attacks. The White House looking to cancel all remaining federal
contracts with the university. President of Harvard is now speaking out.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:20:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." Wall Street rallied Tuesday on a bounce in consumer confidence and Trump's less belligerent tone towards the
E.U. on trade, the S&P and NASDAQ both rose by more than 2 percent. Trump says, talks with the E.U. have taken a positive turn. He lifted his threat
to impose 50 percent tariffs on E.U. goods by next week.
Trump's backtrack on trade also helped boost consumer confidence this month. It rose for the first time since November. However, economists
warned that sentiment could be hurt if the cost of tariffs is passed down to shoppers, as many retailers are now doing.
In other business news, Elon Musk is promising to spend less time at the White House, more time at Tesla and his other tech firms. Not a moment too
soon. New numbers out today. Tuesday rather shows that his EV company lost new ground to Chinese rival BYD. Anna Stewart breaks down those notable
numbers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNA STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Another terrible month for Tesla. New registrations down nearly 53 percent in the E.U. in April as compared to a
year ago despite the overall electric car market actually growing, this is according to new data from the European Automobile Manufacturers
Association.
So, why is Tesla hitting a bit of a roadblock in Europe? Well, it comes down to politics and competition. Tesla founder and CEO Elon Musk has a
prominent role in the Trump administration, and it is no secret there are tensions between the E.U. and the U.S. right now, especially over trade.
Then there's the fact that Musk has waded into politics and parts of Europe, backing far-right candidates in Germany and the U.K., and
frequently airing opinions on European issues and policies that don't always go over well. It's essentially muddied the Tesla brand for some
consumers.
Meanwhile, the competition in the electorate vehicle market is hot. Chinese car maker, BYD, which has a plant in Hungary to target the European
markets, is no longer hot on Tesla's tail, it's actually edged ahead. Last month, according to automotive data analytics company, JATO Dynamics, BYD
sold more cars than Tesla with unit sales up 359 percent compared with the year before. While Tesla's declined.
BYD is competitive on price and it also makes hybrid electric cars, which still dominate the EV market in the E.U. Tesla's share price was higher
Tuesday in line with overall Wall Street gains. But look at this, it's had quite the fall from Grace since the election of U.S. President Trump and
Musk's appointment to lead the Department of Government efficiency.
Now, Musk has already told Tesla investors he will take a step back from DOGE. And as this backlash continues in Europe, he may need to share fewer
of his political views as well.
Anna Stewart, CNN London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Turning now to the battle between Harvard University and the Trump administration. The White House now is ordering federal agencies to cancel
all remaining federal contracts with the university. It accuses Harvard of practicing race discrimination in its student admissions and during its
faculty hiring process, as well as a lack of concern for the safety of Jewish students.
The Harvard President, Alan Garber, says in a new interview with NPR, that federal funding cuts will hurt not just Harvard, but the entire country.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALAN GARBER, PRESIDENT, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Why cut off research funding? Sure, it hurts Harvard, but it hurts the country. They are paying to have
that work conducted. Shutting off that work does not help the country even as it punishes Harvard, and it is hard to see the link between that say
antisemitism.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Well, the Trump administration is also fighting to like block Harvard's ability to enroll any foreign students, trying to block it in
court after Harvard challenged that move in court. And according to a diplomatic cable seen by CNN, the U.S. State Department is ordering
embassies and consulates to pause all new student visa appointments as it develops new social media screening and vetting policies for prospective
students overseas.
[18:25:00]
Kristen Holmes is at the White House. Kristen, you know, it's a series of steps as you know, and you've been reporting on. Has the administration
articulated exactly what the president is seeking from Harvard with all this pressure, or is it just seeking all out surrender?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, they have not articulated in any clear way what exactly the president is seeking. We have
heard various allegations that the administration has leveled at Harvard that, one, the institution has too much liberal bias, that they have
allowed anti-Semitic behavior on campus.
And over the weekend, Donald Trump was asked about it and he essentially just said, Jim, that there were too many foreign students, that it was
taking away the opportunity for American students. But really what we've seen is a vast knee capping of Harvard as an institution.
I mean, I want to go through just a list here of some of what has happened in the last month. Freezing $2.2 billion in grants to Harvard, threatening
Harvard's tax-exempt status, demanding international student records, freezing another $450 million in funding for Harvard, moving to bar
international students, which as you say, is tied up currently in the courts, considering redirecting $3 billion to trade schools. And now, what
we are seeing is this letter that's going out to federal agencies essentially telling them to cancel any of these remaining federal contracts
that they have with Harvard. But in addition to canceling those, which is the tune of a hundred million dollars, they're also telling them to seek
other vendors to not try to work with Harvard at all in the future.
I mean, they're clearly here telling the agencies to sever all ties. Again, a real clear knee capping of this institution. When you look at this as a
whole, when you talk about what does Donald Trump want, again, there is no clear thing that he has asked for in this. It just seems that he is
systematically trying to stop the institution from functioning.
And just, Jim, I really want to add something quickly. These are not -- these federal funding, we don't know what these contracts are for. We also
didn't know what the grant money was for. It's not that this is all just going to fund what they believe to be, quote/unquote, "liberal elites,
liberal education." I mean, some of these are medical grants, technology grants, for research. We don't know what they're working with the
government on what kind of contracts that they have with the government.
So, this is, you know -- again, there's a lot of unknowns here. It's not just what it seems like on face value, which is we're seeing the Trump
allies saying things like, you know, this is the woke liberal agenda. It's also going to impact other aspects of the university.
SCIUTTO: Enormous amount of it. This country's health research into medicines, treatments, et cetera, take place at universities like Harvard.
I want to ask specifically about these visa restrictions, because it sounds like the U.S. government is going to be instituting a broad scan or of
anything any student has ever posted before. That doesn't sound much like, free expression.
HOLMES: Well, they had floated this idea before when they were talking about antisemitism on campuses, saying that if anyone had put anything on
social media that might be viewed as antisemitic, that might be something that they vetted for. But when the State Department was asked specifically
about what exactly they would be looking for or what this would look like, they were incredibly vague. They wouldn't give the specifics on what that
vetting looked like.
All we know right now is that this is an attempt or will stop foreign students from coming into the United States. I mean, one thing you have to
look at is the timeline of these foreign students that would be coming into the country. They would just be getting those foreign visas now because
they have to actually get accepted. They have to pay their deposit. So, this would be the time that they were enrolling for next year to get those
visas. So, this is going to put a huge halt on all of that. And a lot of the money, these various universities comes from these foreign students
coming into town, Jim.
SCIUTTO: It's often to notice that -- noted that U.S. education is an export, right, to the tune of many billions of dollars given -- odd given
the president's focus on trying to grow U.S. exports. Kristen Holmes, thanks so much. And we will have more news just after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:30:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." I'm Jim Sciutto. And here are more international headlines we're watching today. U.S. President Donald Trump
is said to be considering new sanctions against Russia. People familiar with the matter tell CNN. Trump venting his frustration online, criticizing
Russian President Vladimir Putin. Sources say that Russia had failed to send the US a ceasefire proposal for its ongoing invasion of Ukraine.
Instead, the Kremlin has ramped up its attacks in recent days in deadly fashion.
At least five people have been killed. Another six are missing after a massive explosion at a chemical plant in China. The blast took place at a
facility in Eastern China spewing thick, gray, and orange smoke into the sky, some nearby buildings suffered damage as well. At least 19 people
suffered minor injuries, no word yet on the cause of the blast.
Just two of the original 10 inmates who escaped from a New Orleans jail more than 10 days ago are still on the run. Authorities say both men should
be considered armed and dangerous. Three escapees were caught on Monday, one in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, the other two in Southeast Texas after a
high-speed chase. All 10 of the original inmates escaped, there's that video there, out of a hole behind a jail cell toilet on May 16th.
The jury has now been dismissed for the day in Sean Combs' ongoing sex trafficking trial. Another former employee, Capricorn Clark, had taken the
stand. Clark gave emotional testimony, describing a hostile, sometimes violent working environment while he was employed by the hip hop mogul.
This is the third former assistant to testify in the federal trial with some patterns beginning to emerge. Combs has pleaded not guilty to the
charges he's facing, which include, as we said, sex trafficking.
Our Entertainment Correspondent Elizabeth Wagmeister is standing by. And I wonder what you heard that stood out to you during testimony today.
ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: You're absolutely right, Jim, that we are seeing some patterns emerge among these former
assistants of Sean Combs. Capricorn Clark, like the other assistants who testified, said that she not only saw Sean Combs take drugs, but that she
was asked by him to procure drugs for him. She also spoke about his hotel rooms that she was asked to set up and clean up, and she said that when she
had to go clean them up, that there was baby oil everywhere.
But what really stood out about Capricorn Clark's testimony that was different from some other testimony that we've heard is she spoke about two
different death threats that she received while she was employed by Combs. She said that one time when she was a new employee of his, that he asked
her to meet him at Central Park.
[18:35:00]
It was nighttime, so it was dark. And when she showed up, he was there with one of his bodyguards. At that point, she testified that Sean Combs said, I
know that you used to work for Suge Knight because she worked for him at his record label. And he said something to the effect of, if I find out
that anything is going on here, we're going to have to kill you, that's what she said on the stand.
Now, she also testified to another alleged incident where she said that Sean Combs' jewelry went missing and she was forced to take a lie detector
test, not just once, but over the course of five days, Jim, where she said that one of Combs' bodyguards, who of course was employed by him, picked
her up at her apartment, drove her to a deserted building where she was locked inside, this, according to her testimony, she was brought up to the
sixth floor and was told if she didn't pass this lie detector test that they would throw her into the East River.
So, she spoke about these threats and that she was essentially living in this culture of fear. This would seem to be getting into this racketeering
charge, Jim, where prosecutors have to prove that Combs ran a criminal enterprise as they allege where his other employees were helping him set
out to -- you know, to do these alleged crimes.
Now, Capricorn Clark was probably the most relevant to the racketeering charge, but she also spoke about Cassie Ventura. She said that she
witnessed her being physically assaulted, that she actually called Cassie's mother at one point and said that he is beating your daughter. I'm
overwhelmed. I'm underwater. Can you please do something about it? So, we got a lot from her today and it was very emotional testimony, Jim. She was
crying on the stand at some points, couldn't even get through her words.
SCIUTTO: Goodness. Just shocking testimony to hear. Elizabeth Wagmeister, thanks so much for bringing it to us.
Straight ahead, what Tehran is saying about a possible nuclear deal with Washington. I'll speak with the author of a new book about those talks and
Iran's political history.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Iran says it is open to compromise with the U.S. to reach a new nuclear deal, but the foreign ministry says uranium enrichment is not
negotiable. My colleague, Fred Pleitgen, interviewed the ministry spokesperson. Have a listen to how he put it.
[18:40:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ISMAIL BAQAEL, IRANIAN FOREIGN MINISTRY SPOKESPERSON: If the intention is to make sure that Iran's nuclear program would not be weaponized, I think
that's something that we could simply do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: My next guest is the author of "Iran's Grand Strategy: A Political History." It's out today, the book's goal breaking down exactly what Iran
wants and why, what drives its foreign policy, particularly its relation with the U.S. Vali Nasr also happens to be a professor at Johns Hopkins and
he joins me. Good to have you.
VALI NASR, AUTHOR, "IRAN'S GRAND STRATEGY: A POLITICAL HISTORY": Thank you. Thanks for inviting me.
SCIUTTO: So, first, I'm curious what you think the chances are of Iran and the U.S. coming to an agreement and how specifically they would get over
what appears to be the sticking point here, which is that Iran wants to maintain some uranium enrichment, and we've heard different things from the
Trump administration as to what it would tolerate. Is a deal possible?
NASR: I think it's possible. It's probably probable because both sides really want it, each for their own reason. I mean, the very fact that they
haven't walked away from the table every time, even though they have a disagreement, come from the talks and say, talks are positive, they're
going well. In fact, President Trump just said exactly that we're making progress and it's all positive, it means that they don't want things to
break down.
But you're right, they have a major disagreement over Iran's right to enrich. Iran insists on this as a national right, is willing to give
transparency, keep it at a minimum, ship stockpiles outside of Iran. But President Trump has a domestic problem, which is that if he agrees to this,
then he -- people immediately say, what's the difference with JCPOA, the previous deal that President Obama had signed?
SCIUTTO: So, what would the difference be? It would just be the lack of sunset clauses? Would that be the difference?
NASR: There could be a lot of differences, on transparency, inspection. How much does Iran actually keep inside the country, once it's done, the
enrichment, how many centrifuges it can run. You know, these -- all of these can be different and then they have to come up with some kind of a
creative, I think, compromise where the United States acknowledges Iran's right to enrich, but the Iranians somehow don't act on it or don't act on
it in the same way so that President Trump can claim victory and the Iranians can claim that they didn't just surrender.
SCIUTTO: Well, the secret of any deal, right, is that both sides claim -- or that both sides claim that they gave something up. It's interesting
because the perception, of course, in the region, you hear frequently, and you've said this as well, that Iran is weak now. I mean, it's lost --
Hezbollah has been weakened. It's lost its ally Assad in Syria. And of course, itself has been struck by Israel.
But you also point out that Trump doesn't want a war either. And that -- I wonder, is that a weakness that Iran can exploit of the U.S. just as the
U.S. could exploit Iran's own weakness?
NASR: Yes. Of course, I mean, it's both an opportunity and a leverage for Iran. Opportunity in the sense that they say -- that they think that this
president is actually serious about the talks and is willing to cut a deal, which is always a good thing. But they also realize that this threat, that
it's either you sign or we go to war is also not realistic. I mean, his base in the United States doesn't want it. A war with Iran could be
catastrophic.
And in fact, the United States made a mistake under President Trump of trying its hand in Yemen, and that didn't really go well. And if the
Houthis could push back against U.S. bombing to the point that the U.S. abandoned the mission, then, you know, they have to think twice about Iran.
SCIUTTO: Well, what about this other dynamic? Because I reported last week that Israel -- the U.S. believes, has assessed that Israel's making
preparations to strike Iran's nuclear facilities on its own. Do you see any possibility that the U.S. makes a deal with Iran and that Israel doesn't
like it and attacks anyway? Can you see that happening?
NASR: No, I don't think so. I don't think Israel, first of all, would risk wrecking a deal that President Trump has signed. Secondly, Israel cannot
destroy Iran's nuclear facilities on its own. In fact, it has to go through American radar lines, which basically cover most of the Middle East.
And thirdly, it actually needs to carry out missions over Iran's nuclear program that can be defended by Iran. In other words, the kinds of anti-
aircraft missiles that it destroyed allows Israel to shoot missiles onto Iran from Iraq, but not the kind of missions that it needs to actually
destroy Iran's nuclear facilities.
SCIUTTO: OK. So, let's talk about your book in particular, how it relates to this relationship, because you in effect to argue in your book that Iran
is built less on ideology and this is some -- this will be somewhat surprising to people. because that's the perception, right, than it is
purely self-preservation, that that does -- that defines specifically its relationship with the U.S.
NASR: I mean, the revolutionary government that came to Iran in 1979, yes, it had the ideology, but it was -- it viewed the United States as
inherently harmful to Iran. It believed it had carried a coup, it had supported dictatorship. The U.S. was up to no good in Iran. And since then,
it has sort of dug in into that view that it sees the United States as its main adversary in the region, is the country that is destroying its economy
that is cutting its hands in the region. And it has a dark view of how to protect this much like Russia does.
But this is not necessarily religiously driven. It's drawn out of a particular sense of national security that they have.
SCIUTTO: You're right, Iran has invested considerably more in resisting America. That resistance it expects will protect it against us pressure,
but also give it leverage time and space to continue to pursue its national objectives. I wonder how Iranian leaders would reconcile that new defining
cause in effect to steel itself against American threats but still make a deal with the U.S.?
NASR: Well, they made the decision under President Obama as well, that they are actually, if you would, pragmatic in that way. Hat they still fear the
U.S. They still don't trust the U.S., but they also understand that they can bang their head against a very hard surface and not get injured. So,
they will make tactical shifts.
And Iran is weak because its economy is in a bad shape, because the population is no longer on board with supporting the regime's regional and
foreign policy adventures, but -- and therefore, for that reason, they're willing to make these, you know, concessions to the U.S.
But, you know, if you force them to concede enough times, then the regime will ultimately change. So, we have to look at this as the door has opened
and we have to now push through and make them -- make more of these kinds of concessions.
SCIUTTO: Well, it's a hopeful take given how much doom and gloom there is in the region. The book is "Iran's Grand Strategy: A Political History." It
is out today. The author of Vali Nasr. Always good to see you, sir.
NASR: Thank you for having me.
SCIUTTO: Thanks so much. Well, President Trump's Golden Dome Missile defense proposal is drawing sharp criticism from North Korea and China. The
president announced the ambitions plan last week, hoping to leverage a network of satellites to intercept incoming missiles targeting the United
States. Will Ripley has the details on reactions overseas.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The friendly handshakes feel like a distant memory. North Korea is blasting
President Donald Trump's planned Golden Dome Space Shield, calling it an outer space nuclear war scenario, supporting the U.S. strategy for unipolar
domination, a typical product of America First, the height of self- righteousness, arrogance, harsh words, not just from Pyongyang, also China, amid its own rapid military buildup.
Beijing warns the Golden Dome would violate the principle of peaceful use of outer space, igniting a dangerous space, arms race.
MAO NING, CHINESE FOREIGN MINISTRY SPOKESPERSON (through translator): This has a strong offensive nature. It will exacerbate the militarization of
outer space.
RIPLEY (voice-over): From China and North Korea to Russia, and perhaps someday Iran. The list of America's nuclear armed adversaries is growing
and so are their missile arsenals.
TRUMP: I promised the American people that I would build a cutting-edge missile defense shield.
RIPLEY (voice-over): President Trump's Golden Dome would be the most ambitious and expensive space weapons system ever, $175 billion. Israel's
Iron Dome defends cities from short-range rockets in a country about the size of New Jersey. Golden Dome would try to shield the entire U.S.,
shooting down nuclear missiles in orbit before they reach Earth. But experts say the technology to pull it off, doesn't exist. At least not yet.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's been described as hitting a bullet with a bullet.
RIPLEY (voice-over): Missile defense company Lockheed Martin says, we will bring in the best and brightest of American innovation to rapidly develop
game-changing tech, like space-based interceptors and hypersonic defenses, that will ensure America's Golden Dome stays well ahead of adversary
threats.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And destroys the ICBM warhead by force of impact.
RIPLEY (voice-over): Despite hundreds of billions of dollars for research and development going back more than four decades to President Ronald
Reagan in 1983.
RONALD REAGAN, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I know this is a formidable technical task, one that may not be accomplished before the end of this century.
RIPLEY (voice-over): No U.S. missile defense system has ever been proven effective against a realistic, large-scale intercontinental ballistic
missile attack, especially one involving modern ICBMs with decoys, multiple warheads, or countermeasures.
ANDREW REDDLIE, PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, BERKELEY: There is a historical precursor to what we're seeing now when it is "Star Wars" and
during the Reagan administration, and there are echoes of that program and what's being proposed.
RIPLEY (voice-over): President Trump's Golden Dome is a bold promise.
TRUMP: So, we'll have it done in about three years and we will have the best system ever built.
[18:50:00]
RIPLEY (voice-over): But critics warn, it may also be a perilous pipe dream, escalating tensions with U.S. adversaries not just on Earth, but in
space.
Will Ripley, CNN Taipei.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Coming up, red clay and tennis surprises. The French Open is heating up. We'll have the highlights.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Well, tennis legend, perhaps the greatest, Novak Djokovic secured his place in the next round on day three of the French Open. He is seeking
a record breaking 25th Grand Slam title in Paris. Coco Gauff also eased into the second round.
Coy Wire joins me now with the highlights there. I mean, it's always such a beautiful tournament to watch, right, I mean, just the red clay makes it
beautiful as they -- and just the sliding across the court. So, anyway, tell us what's been the best so far.
CORY WIRE, CNN WORLD SPORT: Yes. And it takes a unique skillset to win there, right? Good to see you, Jim. Just a few days after becoming the
third man in history to win 100 ATP titles, Novak Djokovic began this quest for another record.
If he wins a 25th Grand Slam title, as Jim was mentioning, he would break his tie with Margaret Court for most ever. The now 38-year-old has slowed
down a bit in terms of winning in recent years, excluding his gold at the Paris Olympics last year, that ATP win was Novak's first since the end of
2023. That year, he won staggering seven times.
Djokovic's opening match against 98th ranked American MacKenzie McDonald went about as good as he could have hoped for, winning in straight sets, 6-
3, 6-3, 6-3 in one hour and 58 minutes. He was unfazed by a rain delay, and then another stop is to close the roof. The Serb is now 21 and 0 in his
opening matches on the famous red clay. He is bidding for a fourth title there.
Up next Djoko will be Corentin Moutet who gave us one of the points of the tournament so far. Did you see this, Jim? Bottom of your screen running
around like the road runner, meep, meep, all over the clay against Qualifier Clement Tabur. Tabur had plenty of chances to smash to put Moutet
away in the opening set. But look at that, unloading a ferocious backhand winner. Look at -- he throws his racket on the clay as if to say, are you
not to entertained?
Now, Jim, to be able to throw your racket on the ground, right, you'd have to have one in the first place. Well, American Coco Gauff walked in for her
match, Jim, against Australia's Olivia Gadecki without her rackets. You probably want to have those for a match at Roland-Garros, but she forgot
them. So, her team quickly finds them, brings them out to her, and that was pretty much all the drama she faced. The 2022 French Open finalist, she
rolled right past the Ossian, straight set, 6-2, 6-2. After the win, the 21-year-old, she reflected a bit on a lesson learned about the things you
need to do to get a win. That's the French Open. Listen to this.
[18:55:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COCO GAUFF, 2022 FRENCH OPEN RUNNER-UP: Well, the most important thing is to play with the racket. So, that was getting through the first step. And
then after that, maybe it probably relaxed me going into the match because this is just such a funny thing. Yes. So, I'm just happy to get through
today and I'll remember my rackets for next time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WIRE: Check this out, Jim. Coco posted a photo of her to-do list for the French Open round one on Instagram. She put tie shoes, check, packed
clothes, check, arranged fruit salad, check, but there was no check next to put tennis rackets in bag. She added the caption oops at the end. We'll see
how far she can go, Jim.
How about your to-do list? Mine for, you know, doing a show is usually a tie, drink some coffee and remember to put pants on it. And most of the
time I remember all three.
SCIUTTO: Please tell me that last box is checked. I just -- you know, for the sake of our audience and me,.
WIRE: It's all panned down. Yes.
SCIUTTO: Coy Wire, thanks so much.
WIRE: Good to see you.
SCIUTTO: And thanks so much of all of you for your company today. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. You've been watching "The Brief." Please do stay
with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
