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The Brief with Jim Sciutto
Kilmar Abrego Garcia Returned To U.S. On Criminal Charges; Trump "Not Even Thinking About Elon"; Moscow launches Largest Air Attacks On Ukraine; Israel Arming Rival Militia Groups To Hamas In Gaza; Musk's Firms To Suffer Due To Trump Feud; President Trump On Billboards All Over Syria; Impact Of Trump's Travel Restriction In Cuba; The Future Of Horse Racing. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired June 06, 2025 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all over the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. And you're watching "The
Brief."
Just ahead this hour. Kilmar Abrego Garcia, the man wrongly deported to El Salvador by the Trump administration, has now been returned to the United
States to face charges, new ones, of smuggling migrants. Donald Trump says he is, quote, "not even thinking about Elon" after his very public break
with the billionaire. And CNN goes inside Syria to see how some there are now embracing the U.S. president. All that and more coming up.
First though, a stunning turn of events in the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, the man the Trump administration admittedly, mistakenly deported to
El Salvador back in March. The Maryland man is now back on U.S. soil, but facing new federal criminal charges filed against him just a few hours ago.
Abrego Garcia is expected to make his first court appearance in Nashville, Tennessee. A short time from now. The U.S. attorney general, Pam Bondi,
laid out the charges against him earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAM BONDI, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: The grand jury found that over the past nine years, Abrego Garcia has played a significant role in an alien
smuggling ring. They found this was his full-time job, not a contractor. He was a smuggler of humans and children and women. He made over a hundred
trips, the grand jury found, smuggling people throughout our country. MS-13 members, violent gang terrorist organization members throughout our
country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: This is a major change for the Trump administration, which had insisted it would never bring Abrego Garcia back to the U.S. despite not
just the public outcry over his case, but court orders demanding that the U.S. facilitate his return. The administration linked him to the notorious
MS-13 gang, a charge he and his family strenuously denied.
Joining me now is Harry Litman. He is a former U.S. attorney for the Western District of Pennsylvania. Harry, good to have you here.
HARRY LITMAN, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: Thanks, Jim.
SCIUTTO: One question, since this effort, this investigation was apparently underway for weeks as the Trump administration was accused of delaying his
return to the country. Does this belie the administration's argument that it had no way to return him earlier?
LITMAN: I think that's pretty clear, right? It didn't take much difficulty when the time actually came, and it always seemed a bit of a farfetched
argument that President Bukele would not want to placate the United States and return him when asked for, and he's not the only one who's now come
back.
So, yes, I think this is -- this does make it clear that all the sort of protests and evasions probably were at a minimum highly exaggerated.
SCIUTTO: So, if they were, does the administration still face possible legal penalties for non-compliance with multiple court rulings?
LITMAN: You know, that is I think the basic strategy here, Jim, to replace everything about that with these new criminal charges. Technically, Abrego
Garcia could bring a lawsuit sometimes, somewhere for money damages. But really, he's in a different kind of legal snare now.
And I think for the administration, they get to say -- they get to change the subject and they were getting pretty badly beaten, it seems to me, on
the topic of, are we complying with due process? Now, they get to change it into, is this the sort of criminal we were saying all along that it was --
that he was?
SCIUTTO: Now, they are, of course, as we noted, they're alleging a whole host of crimes, including trafficking. And they did get a grand jury to
indict here, but given the timing of this and the fact that they didn't have this case prior to deporting him, does it raise questions about the
charges themselves for you?
[18:05:00]
LITMAN: Well, look, it's obvious I think that this was coordinated with an overall political agenda to change the message when Attorney General Bondi
was at the press conference, she extolled the President Trump for all he's done. The big thing to note here though, Jim, is it's a conspiracy charge
and under federal law.
What has happened essentially is they found someone who says he's in prison now and he's getting cooperation. I used to run this ring. I basically was
the head of the taxi service and I hired Abrego Garcia a few times. Under federal law, that means Abrego Garcia is part of a conspiracy and
everything that people do in the conspiracy, he can be criminally liable for.
So, some of these really incendiary allegations that she made there I think will turn out to be having been done by other people. But by using
conspiracy law, they can try to put them at the feet of Abrego Garcia and substantiate a claim they've been making for a long time, but I think it's
probably dubious that he is a really dangerous customer and Tren de Aragua, a longtime member.
SCIUTTO: Does it -- you've been around courts a long time. Does this pass the smell test to find, in effect, suddenly a star witness who implicates
Abrego Garcia and all these crimes now given that the administration didn't have that evidence of that witness prior to this case becoming what it was?
LITMAN: It is a really fair question. And you've just anticipated what the cross-examination of this man, who --- the man in Florida, Fernandez Reyes
I think is his last name. And that's what'll happen. They'll have a story to tell about how the U.S. had a motivation to find and bring these
charges.
Of course, that doesn't mean they're not accurate. And again, I want to say that the use of conspiracy law kind of bulks them up and makes him look
more culpable than if you were looking at his conduct in isolation he might be.
I think it's clear that, yes, there was an all-out effort political and legal to find something to change the subject from the due process
arguments that they really were getting shellacked about. It doesn't mean the charges themselves turn out to be false. That's what, you know, a court
of law is for. But they get to sort of snatch victory from the jaws of defeat by having it be now about Abrego Garcia and possible part of a
conspiracy rather than about them. And then knowing deprivation, which they finally had to fess up to of not -- of mistakenly sending him down to El
Salvador.
SCIUTTO: All right. So, Harry, perhaps relevant to these questions, this is just into CNN, and that is that the chief of the Justice Department's
criminal division in Nashville resigned over this decision to charge Kilmar Abrego Garcia, I'm reading from the CNN alert here. The Justice
Department's pushed to pursue human trafficking charges against him had caused disagreement among prosecutors in the Nashville U.S. attorney's
office. I imagine that raises more questions for you.
LITMAN: What in general? Yes. In general, before the Bondi administration, you did not see resignations like this. It's the ultimate that a career
prosecutor can do to protest. They're not allowed to, you know, carry a sandwich board outside federal court. And yet, this does speak volumes,
Jim. So -- and look, if the guy was resigning, it sounds like it's a man. There must be some really principled objections as to whether these charges
not only are political in a sense, but have been sort of ginned up. That's what we're going to learn about, but that's big news.
SCIUTTO: Yes, no question. And listen, you had a similar situation right in New York with the case -- when the case against the -- Mayor Eric Adams was
dropped there, you had some resignations. Our thanks to Harry Litman, former U.S. attorney for the Western District of Pennsylvania.
Turning now into a win for the Trump administration, a legal one. The Supreme Court has restored access to sensitive social security data to the
Department of Government Efficiency, DOGE. That move has been described as an effort to root out fraud, modernize outdated systems. However, there
have been questions about privacy as to whether this was a phishing expedition.
Next, from a friendship to a feud and the breakup that's been hard to look away from. President Trump and Elon Musk giving each other the silent
treatment today after yesterday's bitter, very public, bust up breakup of their relationship over social media.
Trump told CNN's Dana Bash that he will not be speaking with Elon Musk anytime soon. Saying he's, quote, "not even thinking about Elon."
[18:10:00]
Tesla's stock rebounded today. It closed up nearly 4 percent, partially recouping some of its big drop just yesterday when it lost $150 billion in
market capitalization. The White House is trying to downplay the fight, others in Washington not so certain.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER NAVARRO, SENIOR COUNSELOR OF TRADE AND MANUFACTURING: People come and go from the White House. We -- he was a special government employee with an
expiration date. With respect to what Mr. Musk has been saying about the big beautiful bill and overspending and things like that, I think that that
dog won't hunt when you do the math properly.
REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): Girls are fighting, aren't they? I think this breakup we've been seeing a long time coming, but we'll see what
the impacts are at -- are of it legislatively.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think his relationship with Trump is salvageable at this point? Things have turned kind of personal.
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), U.S. HOUSE SPEAKER: Yes, I believe in redemption. I think it'll all work out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Kristen Holmes is now at the White House. Kristen, thanks so much. I know you've been covering the fallout this for some time. I wonder first,
is there any genuine effort or possibility at this point of repairing this relationship or are folks around the president doubtful?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, it depends what you mean. I mean, if you mean short-term, no. There's not going to be any
kind of immediate fix here. But long-term, you never say never when it comes to Donald Trump. I mean, how many times have we seen someone
completely exiled from Trump world only to come back and now be working in the second administration?
So, Donald Trump's world tends to be small and people tend to cycle in and out of it. But short-term, it seems very unlikely. Now, Donald Trump is
currently on his way to his house in New Jersey, his Bedminster golf resort, and he was asked about Elon Musk repeatedly and he kind of tried to
stay on the course of, I'm not even thinking of it. It's not something that's crossing my mind. I have no plans to talk to him.
And the White House has really tried to double down on this idea that Donald Trump is moving forward. And that's because Trump himself is the one
who told the White House staff that that's how he wanted them to respond, that he wanted them to essentially focus on the big beautiful bill, his
terminology for the bill, because that is his legacy bill.
But it's very hard for anyone, as you said, to turn away from this. This is two of the world's most powerful men in an all-out brawl on social media.
And really, Elon was perpetuating a lot of that with these personal digs, personal attacks, accusing him, Donald Trump, of being in the Epstein files
at one point.
But Donald Trump trying to not respond to that as best he possibly can. And for Donald Trump, who we know is a very reactive person, it has been a
pretty much on message, I mean, other than the one personal tweet where he said that Elon was wearing thin. So, he asked him to leave the White House.
And mostly, he has been focused on still trying to push that bill.
So, we don't know what this is going to look like down the road. But right now, I am told by people that are close to Donald Trump, who have spent a
lot of time talking to him about this. There's no effort underway by at least Trump to try and repair this relationship right now.
SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this. I mean, there's the personality stuff, there's the social media stuff, but there are potential real consequences
to this, number one of which, right, is financial. I mean, Trump -- I'm sorry, Musk put nearly $300 million into Trump's presidential campaign and
there was always the threat hanging over lawmakers who defied this president that Musk would finance, you know, primary challenges to them if
they went another way.
Does Trump fear the loss of those billions potentially in -- or hundreds of millions in donations? Is he hearing from Republican lawmakers who do?
HOLMES: Well, I mean, Jim, Donald Trump always thinks about money. So, obviously, there's going to be a financial component about this. However,
when it comes to Donald Trump, I mean, he himself is not going to run again. There is no need for that money at this time. But is he hearing from
Republicans? I can't say. But I can tell you that right now, Republicans are going to have to look at this as a choice between two people,
particularly when it comes to this bill. They're going to have to look at this, it's between Donald Trump and Elon Musk. And the Elon Musk's power
lies in the fiscal power, in the potential for donating money to a primary opponent.
But as of -- you know, when you look at this scene, and what we've seen from Republicans in the past, and again, I'm just basing this off of what
we've seen, they tend to really circle the wagons around Donald Trump. They've done it time and time again. Whatever the power hold that he has
over the party, he is the leader of the Republican Party, and these lawmakers are going to need him for the next three years to get anything
they want to get done. So, that's going to obviously be on their minds as well.
SCIUTTO: Kristen Holmes at the White House, thanks so much for joining. Now, to Ukraine, rocked by one of the largest Russian aerial attacks since
Russia's full-scale invasion in 2022. The Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, accused Moscow sending more than 40 missiles and 400 drones to
attack Ukraine.
[18:15:00]
The attacks killed at least six people, wounded dozens. Ukraine has been expecting retaliation by Russia after its successful and quite broad
ranging sneak attack on Russia just days before. Our Fred Pleitgen has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Massive explosions rocked the Kyiv skyline overnight shaking the Ukrainian
capital as the country endured another night of intense Russian bombarding. Several emergency workers were killed in the capitol and dozens of
civilians were injured across the country. In Lutsk, Northwest Ukraine, as the sun rose, the missiles fell.
Athlete Sophia Romasyuk, a Ukrainian shot putter, captured the moment of impact. She and fellow athletes from the Ukrainian national team were
visiting the city for a competition when their hotel was hit by a blast.
The country has been bracing for Russian retaliation after an audacious strike by the Ukrainian military on airfield deep inside Russia. As
residents in Kyiv picked through the remains of their apartments this morning, many feeling lucky to have survived.
ARTEM, APARTMENT DAMAGED IN RUSSIAN STRIKE (through translator): Usually we stay in the corridor during the attacks, and this time my wife also
insisted that we sleep in the corridor. So, she saved my life.
PLEITGEN (voice-over): It wasn't clear if this was Putin's much anticipated response or just business as usual in Russia's aerial campaign. Russia's
defense ministry said it had struck targets in Ukraine in response to what had called Kyiv's, quote, "terrorists act."
Ukrainian President Zelenskyy, calling on America and Europe to put more pressure on Russia to end the war, saying anyone, quote, "giving the war
more time to take lives, that is complicity and accountability."
This after President Trump on Thursday compared Russia and Ukraine to children fighting and said, it may be better to let them continue for a
while.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Maybe you're going to have to keep fighting and suffering a lot because both sides are suffering before you pull them
apart, before they're able to be pulled apart.
Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Berlin.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: In the Middle East. Israel is now arming rival militia groups to Hamas in Gaza in an attempt to counter Hamas' influence and power. The
Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, defended the move, calling it, quote, "a good thing." An Israeli opposition leader, who's also former
defense minister says it's complete madness, equating these malicious to ISIS in Gaza. Hamas says Israel is providing weapons to criminal gangs to
create chaos there. Two Israeli officials have told CNN the operation was authorized by the prime minister without approval from his own security
cabinet.
Former IDF spokesman Jonathan Conricus joins me now. He's a senior fellow at the Foundation for Defensive Democracies, co-founder as well of Bottom
Line Media. Jonathan, good to have you.
JONATHAN CONRICUS, FORMER IDF SPOKESPERSON, SENIOR FELLOW, FOUNDATION FOR DEFENSE FOR DEMOCRACIES: Good to be here. Shalom.
SCIUTTO: Given the history here, right, I mean, even Israel's previous history of funding Hamas, why wouldn't this backfire?
CONRICUS: I think that there are fair chances that it will, and I think that a lot of current and former security personnel and, of course, many
politicians who oppose Netanyahu are very vocal that the chances of this backfiring are significant. We've been there before. We, as in Israel,
trying to arm the enemies of our enemies in order for them to do battle. Usually, that hasn't worked out too well.
But we'll have to see. Time will tell if this was a smart move or if it was questionable use of funds and strange choice of allies during war.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Because if Israel's goal here, right, as stated repeatedly, is to eliminate Hamas but also, calm Gaza, right? You know, eventually end
the fighting, how is this controllable, is the question, right? How do you control this down the line?
CONRICUS: Yes. It's worth mentioning and keeping into perspective that we are talking about very small amounts and we're talking about limited
caliber and capacity of weapons, small arms weapons, assault rifles. As far as I know, I haven't seen reports of heavy weapons, missiles, RPGs, or
explosives. That would put it in a different league.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
[18:20:00]
CONRICUS: And I think the Israeli reasoning, or those in Israel that are making those decisions is that this is something that can be managed on a
local level. It is just about the goals that you mentioned. I wouldn't say that Israel's goal yet is to calm the situation in Gaza. Israel's goal is
to defeat Hamas, get the hostages back, and return security and safety for Israelis, calm in Gaza and stabilizing events, that will come much later
down the road once main kinetic operations -- main combat operations have been completed.
SCIUTTO: I want to ask you as well, given the ongoing challenges, feeding the people of Gaza, in particular with this new Israeli and U.S.-backed
effort here. I just wonder, from a big picture perspective, do you consider Israel's current efforts to allow aid into Gaza, to feed the people of
Gaza, do you consider them sufficient?
CONRICUS: Well, you know, that's a good question. But I -- if we look at numbers, you know, they've been -- the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation,
they've distributed more than 8 million meals in about a week. That definitely puts a dent or should put a dent in any claims or fears of
famine in Gaza. And I think that, overall, albeit except for a rough starting, I think it looks like it's working, not perfect and it's rough.
And the big picture, as you said, it's really, really important here. And I think that what we're looking at is the possible beginning of the end of
Hamas because controlling the supply of food, which is what Hamas has been able to do, through U.N. organizations like UNRWA, up until now, is
something that is very important for Hamas, and I would even say crucial for their ability to continue to govern Gaza and to oppress the population
and hold them under their sway.
Now that Israel is finally challenging that and presenting an alternative to Palestinians, big picture wise, Hamas is threatened and I think they
have a very clear interest in trying to derail this effort, and I think that they will stop at nothing in order to undermine it. No matter how many
Palestinians will be killed and what the consequences are, i think Hamas are threatened by it, and they will want to stop it because it's a danger
for their rule.
SCIUTTO: Jonathan Conricus, joining us from Tel Aviv, thanks so much.
CONRICUS: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Still ahead this hour, the tech world has enjoyed unprecedented influence in Washington due largely to the VIP status of that man, Elon
Musk. All that likely to change though after the very public breakup of the Trump-Musk friendship. We're going to hear from venture capitalist Bradley
Tusk about the investment and economic consequences of all this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:25:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." A positive end to the trading week on Wall Street stocks getting a boost from the latest U.S. jobs report, which
showed unemployment holding -- or rather employment holding up despite economic headwinds, particularly from the trade war. The U.S. economy added
139,000 jobs last month. That number better than expected. Weaker however than April's levels. JOB gains from March and April were revised down by
some 100,000 jobs.
In the latest trade related developments, President Trump announced a fresh round of U.S.-China trade talks to take place in London next week. Reuters
says, China is allowing rare earth suppliers to resume shipments to U.S. car makers temporarily.
Tesla shares clawed back some of Thursday's 14 percent loss due to the Trump-Musk feud. Tesla shares still down 26 percent for the year though
with investors now worrying about implications not just from this dispute but broader competition to its earnings.
The Washington Post calculates that Musk's firms have received at least $38 billion in government support. Their analysis back in February takes into
account not just contracts, but loans, subsidies, tax credits as well over the last 20 years.
A further concern is that tax growing influence inside the White House could suffer. Some fear that Trump administration tech purge with Musk-
backed officials at greater risk of following Musk out the door.
Joining me now is Bradley Tusk. He is the CEO and founder of Tusk Venture Partners. Good to have you on.
Oh, sorry. We're going to -- have a little bit of an audio problem with our guest there. We're going to get that fixed and we'll come back right after
a short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:30:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." I'm Jim Sciutto. Here are more international headlines we're watching today.
The Maryland man mistakenly deported to El Salvador by the Trump administration has now been returned to the U.S. However, Kilmar Abrego
Garcia now faces charges of smuggling undocumented migrants. The Supreme Court ruled in April that the Trump administration had to facilitate his
return.
An emotional day on the stand for a former girlfriend of Sean Diddy Combs, in the rapper's ongoing sex trafficking trial. A woman identified as Jane
has been testifying to sexual encounters between the two. She described money paid for escorts and hotels along with ongoing drug use. Combs has
pleaded not guilty to charges, including sex trafficking and racketeering.
Thousands of Muslim pilgrims gathered for prayers at Mecca's Grand Mosque during the annual Hajj pilgrimage. Millions of Muslims visit the Holy City
where they carry out sacred rituals first practiced by the Prophet Muhammad some 1400 years ago. The religious duty, which is required once in a
lifetime for every physically and financially able Muslim represents the highest expression of Islamic faith, devotion, and global unity.
There are rising hopes now in Syria for economic opportunity following the lifting of sanctions by President Trump. The streets of Damascus now
feature signs showing gratitude for the U.S. president. CNN Chief International Correspondent Clarissa Ward joins us now from the Syrian
capital, Damascus. And I wonder, Clarissa, given your time covering Syria through the years, are you surprised to see people in Syria now looking to
the U.S. in effect, not just for leadership, but for opportunity?
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think, Jim -- and I should just say we're now actually in Aleppo, Syria's second city. But I
think that nobody could have predicted this turn of events, not in terms of how the dictator Bashar al-Assad was ousted, nor in terms of this new
blossoming of the relationship between the U.S. and Syria.
You had U.S. Special Envoy Tom Barrack in Damascus just last week raising the flag at the U.S. ambassador's residence. But he made some comments that
I think really hit on, you know, the shift in the U.S. perspective on this that is appealing to many Syrians. He talked about the idea of giving this
young government a chance by not interfering, by not giving conditions, and not imposing our culture on your culture. Those words have been welcomed by
many, and certainly, the lifting of those punishing U.S. sanctions has been celebrated by so many. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WARD (voice-over): Dotted around the streets of Damascus billboard after billboard of U.S. President Donald Trump.
WARD: Oh, there's another one. There's another one. Look, look, look. That is now the sixth poster billboard that we have seen since arriving here,
thanking President Trump.
WARD (voice-over): They're thanking him for lifting punishing sanctions and normalizing relations between the U.S. and Syria.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I love you, Trump. I love you, Trump.
WARD (voice-over): In small letters in the right-hand corner, a Syrian American lobby group, Global Justice, co-founded by Maissa Kabbani.
MAISSA KABBANI, CO-FOUNDER, GLOBAL JUSTICE: I want to show you this one, which is --
WARD: Wow.
KABBANI: -- after the liberation, it was our new slogan, Make Syria Great Again.
WARD (voice-over): When the dictatorship of Bashar al-Assad fell, Kabbani began shuttling back and forth from her home in Philadelphia to Damascus.
She met with President Trump and Syria's new leader, Ahmed al-Sharaa, pushing for that historic meeting between the two presidents. For President
Trump, she had her sales pitch ready.
KABBANI: I told him our new slogan is Make Syria Great Again. And hopefully, we are going to see Trump Tower and Damascus soon. So, he was
laughing. So, I don't know. I felt that we can do it and I felt that, you know, this is the way how we are going to approach President Trump. You
know, his personality actually is different than any other president. And we need to talk to the people based on what they like to hear, and he likes
to hear that.
WARD (voice-over): And she wasn't kidding about Trump Tower.
WARD: This is an early sketch of what Trump Tower in Damascus might look like. And as you can see, it is still a very long ways away. This abandoned
construction site is just one of the places that people here are speculating could be the site for this proposed Trump Tower.
[18:35:00]
And we spoke to the head of Tiger Group, that's the property development company that is behind this proposal. They told us they have put in for
government permissions. They're waiting for those. And from there, the next step is to approach the Trump organization.
WARD (voice-over): Whatever it took to get to this point was well worth it in the eyes of many Syrians.
WARD: What was the reaction here when it was announced that the sanctions would be lifted?
KABBANI: Oh, my God. Did you see the -- you know, the same day as the Liberation Day, people went to the (INAUDIBLE) Square and they are happy,
they were dancing. You know, they were chanting about Trump, chanting about President al-Sharaa. And we want to make Syria a land opportunity too. So,
you could see now everybody's coming back to Syria.
WARD (voice-over): Outside the U.S. ambassadors, residents, the American flag raised last week for the first time since 2012. Another sign of a
warming relationship few could have imagined.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WARD (on camera): Now, Jim, it's important to underscore that obviously not everybody in Syria is happy about this warming relationship, and
particularly a lot of people here uncomfortable with this idea that President Trump has suggested that Syria should normalize its relationship
with Israel, that it should even go so far as to join the Abraham Accords. There have been hundreds of Israeli strikes here in Syria since the
liberation back in December, one last month hit right near the presidential palace.
And also, of course, emotions here run very high about what's happening in Gaza. But when you're on the streets, when you're talking to ordinary
people, there is a sense among most people certainly that we've spoken to, that they're just desperate to really turn the page, start a new chapter,
see those sanctions lifted, see investments start to pour in. And most crucially, see reconstruction start here after more than a decade of those
punishing sanctions of war. The U.N. saying 90 percent of people here living on the poverty line.
So, this is a big opportunity for Syrians to, in the words of Maissa Kabbani, Make Syria Great Again. Jim.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Listen, so much to rebuild there, right? Just in physical form, but also to rebuild lives. Clarissa Ward in Aleppo, Syria, thanks so
much.
You are watching "The Brief." And we'll be right back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:40:00]
SCIUTTO: Returning now to one of our top stories, the ongoing feud between President Trump and Elon Musk and the potential repercussions it may have
on Musk's business empire, as well as new economic numbers out today. Job figures in the U.S. exceeding expectations. Bradley Tusk joins me. He's the
CEO and founder of Tusk Venture Partners. Good to have you on Bradley. Thanks so much for joining.
BRADLEY TUSK, CO-FOUNDER, TUSK VENTURE PARTNERS AND MANAGING PARTNER, TUSK VENTURE PARTNERS: Yes, thanks for having me. Apologies for the audio
problem before.
SCIUTTO: It happens. No problem. We're glad we got them worked out. First, let's start on Tesla, Musk's, you know, signature company, I suppose. It
faces a lot of headwinds beyond this public dispute with Trump, right? I mean, is it more competition as well as reputational damage, right, that
you're seeing in Europe and the U.S. as a result of his relationship with Trump?
And now, though this quite open few dispute with the most powerful man in the country, perhaps the world. What does that mean for the future of
Tesla?
TUSK: I mean, the problem that they really face might even be one that you didn't mention yet, which is their share price and their market cap is
incredible, but it's mainly pixie dust, right? It is in no way supported by the fundamentals. They're not on the top 15 in sales or revenue or anything
else. The notion that they would have a market cap multiple times the size of Toyota is solely based on the fact that there is huge retail enthusiast
-- investor enthusiasm for Elon Musk, and that is just based on a perception of him that he is this sort of supernatural human being. And the
one person who's even more powerful than Elon Musk is Donald Trump and the president of the United States. And if that vale gets pierced, the value of
Tesla could come tumbling way, way down.
SCIUTTO: Yes. I've thought of that for a while. because I think there was - - wasn't there a point where it was -- the market cap exceeded a combination of the world's biggest automakers on this idea --
TUSK: Of all of them. Yes, exactly.
SCIUTTO: Yes, yes.
TUSK: And it's like -- there's not, it's a good company. But like, you know, it's not even Kia, let alone Toyota or Honda or something like that.
So, you know, he's done an incredible job creating this error among investors that has made him the richest person in the world. But, you know,
he's not bulletproof.
SCIUTTO: Now, his other companies, such as SpaceX, not public. But I wonder, do you see an impact for -- and also Starlink as well, do you see
an impact for them, for their business fortunes as it related to this? I mean, Trump said again today, he is going to look at the federal contracts.
Of course, the trouble with that is that, listen, U.S. depends on SpaceX to get a lot of its satellites up into space. But are they going to face
headwinds as well?
TUSK: Yes. I mean, when investors decide what the valuation for SpaceX should be and whether or not they're going to participate in a funding
round at that valuation, they're looking at the size of the total market. And in this case, that market is mainly government contracts because
government contracts go away, even if it's solely out of spite, that significantly changes the value of the company itself.
Now, unlike Tesla, the U.S. is far more dependent on SpaceX and Starlink. And Starlink is given that it's about half of the world's functioning
satellites, it really does have the ability to wreak havoc. So, I think Musk has more leverage there than he does on Tesla.
But you know, you can keep going on and on. So, for example, Neuralink, which is a company that Musk uses -- or to bill to try to help connect the
brain and the body in ways to help people who are disabled, for example, they need all kinds of FDA approvals or employees from any of Musk
companies who aren't from the U.S. need visas or Section 230, which provides liability immunity for social media platforms like Twitter, that
could go away. So, there's lots of ways for Trump to make life difficult.
SCIUTTO: And we've seen him be willing to do that against, well, not just against companies, but against universities and now entire states, with
California threat to pull federal funding there.
TUSK: Yes. I mean, things like rule of law have never stopped him before.
SCIUTTO: Yes. OK. Let's talk bigger picture. Just as an investor that you are, your vision of the economy here. It seems like there's a lag effect
with the economic damage from the trade war, at least there's a view that, yes, OK, the job report was fine today but that eventually you're going to
see this hit the economy and you still have some banks that look for a recession coming in the U.S. What is your view in terms of --
TUSK: Yes.
SCIUTTO: -- are we going to see that damage? When? How big?
TUSK: It's a great question, right? So, right now, the fundamentals are pretty strong. The job reports are good, inflation is not crazy. You know,
the market is doing well, but ultimately, you know, there are things that make the American economy so strong.
[18:45:00]
And when you're Trump and you're almost deliberately undermining each one of those things, whether it is free trade or investment in R&D or
investment in education, or allowing immigrations, you can get the best talent from all over the world and have them work here in the U.S. or
independent markets or independent institutions and rule of law. You know, when you keep just systematically attacking every one of those things, it
really undermines confidence. So, you have banks and other analysts saying, look, it seems OK right now, but if you just take this guy at his word and
he is actually able to accomplish his agenda, the agenda fundamentally takes away every systemic advantage our country, and our economy has, and
in which case recession seems likely.
SCIUTTO: Well, Bradley Tusk, I'm sure it's not the last time we talk about it. Let's keep in touch. Thanks so much for joining today.
TUSK: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Well, this is the last weekend before President Trump's new travel ban and restrictions around the world take effect. They target 19
countries, including Cuba. Patrick Oppmann reports on how people there are reacting to those restrictions.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As dawn breaks at the U.S. embassy in Havana, Cubans get in line for increasingly scarce visas.
Already for Cubans to travel to the U.S. under the Trump administration was becoming difficult. Soon it may be all but impossible.
Starting on Monday, the U.S. is banning travel from 12 countries and implementing a partial ban on an additional seven countries, including
Cuba. Sola (ph) received her visa just hours after the new restrictions were announced.
I was lucky, very lucky, she tells me, but I will be nervous until I can get onto the plane.
The partial ban on Cubans impacts both immigrant and non-immigrant visas. It's still unclear if Cubans who already have been granted visas will be
allowed to travel.
MARIA JOSE ESPINOSA, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR ADVOCACY AND ENGAGEMENT IN THE AMERICAS: This is hundreds of thousands of American citizens who
won't be able to see their grandparents, who won't be able to see their uncles, no exceptions. Even if it's confusing, it's going to impact
families.
OPPMANN (voice-over): The partial ban deals another blow to Cuba's crumbling economy.
OPPMANN: Many Cubans go to the United States to bring back items they're increasingly hard to find in communist run Cuba. Food, medicine, even car
parts, it's a vital lifeline that would be endangered if visas are greatly reduced or even cut off.
OPPMANN (voice-over): The Trump administration says it is slashing the number of visas issued to Cubans to force the island's government to accept
more deportees and cooperate with U.S. law enforcement. But Omeria (ph) who has applied for a visa to reunite with his son in Miami tells me people
like him could pay the price.
Family is everything in life, he says, some go this way, some go that way. But God created families to be together.
These Cubans hoping to obtain a visa to the U.S. aren't giving up. Some have waited months, even years for an appointment and this should be the
final step. But time may have already run out.
Patrick Oppmann, CNN, Havana.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Just ahead, the Belmont Stakes are this weekend. I'm going to speak to Katie Bo Lillis about her new book, "Death of a Racehorse," and
the challenges to the racehorse industry.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:50:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to the brief and the final days of the French Open reigning champ, Carlos Alcaraz reaching his second straight final after
beating the Italian Lorenzo Musetti in four sets. He will have an uphill battle though in Sunday's final. He's going to be up against the world.
Number one Jannick Sinner. Sinner defeated a guy named Novak Djokovic in the semifinals. You might have heard of him.
The Women's final is Saturday with American Coco Gauff facing off against Belarusian Aryna Sabalenka. They happen to be number one and two in the
world.
Also, this weekend, big horse race. Horse racing fans will descend on Belmont Park. That is the third and final leg of the sport's famous Triple
Crown. The Belmont Stakes follows, of course, the Kentucky Derby and the Preakness.
In recent years, though horse racing has been marred by doping and some high-profile deaths of horses. Our Katie Bo Lillis tackles the topic in her
new book, "Death of a Racehorse." And she joins me now. Nice to have you on.
KATIE BO LILLIS, AUTHOR, "DEATH OF A RACEHORSE" AND CNN REPORTER: Thanks for having me, Jim.
SCIUTTO: So, I know you and folks watching will know you as your day job, an intelligence reporter, but you have a personal tie to the sports of
horse racing. Can you tell -- and just horses in general, tell us why. Like what was the passion that led you to write this book?
LILLIS: I actually worked in the horse racing industry through summer jobs when I was in high school, through college and then for a few years out of
college. I worked on kind of the breeding end of the industry. So, the part of the sport that produces these beautiful animals that you see run in the
Kentucky Derby every year. And I love the sport and I thought, who better to tell this story than me?
SCIUTTO: So, it is a sport that's faced challenges and sometimes quite public challenges. In your book you argue it's a number of things, hectic
schedules driven in part by owners who they want to maximize betting, right? I mean, this is happening across a lot of sports, as well as the
other things we're seeing, you know, which is drugs, right, and doping cases, which has led to a lot of high-profile death of horses.
I wonder, like in the midst of this, who's looking out for the horses?
LILLIS: So, there's actually a new piece of federal legislation that was passed in 2020. And one of the things that it did, aside from creating
uniform standards for safety and medication regulations at states across the country, as opposed to what had been done in the past, which was kind
of this patchwork state by state regulatory model that like wasn't really working that well, it also tightened some of the rules around veterinary
oversight. It tightened some of the rules around different parts of the business, basically where animals were a little bit more exposed to kind of
the commercial imperatives of the sport. And it tightened some of the medication rules.
Now, there are horsemen who have kind of pushed back on some of these new worlds and have argued it has made it too expensive to maintain a race
horse. These are, in fact, incredibly expensive animals to maintain. People do make money off of them, but it also costs tens of thousand dollars --
tens of thousands of dollars to run one. But it has -- I'll just say, it's made a big difference.
SCIUTTO: Has it really?
LILLIS: There's been a 27 percent drop in fatalities year over year.
SCIUTTO: That's great to hear, because it strikes me, if you look at the comparison to say steroids in baseball, right? You know, you've -- or you
know, the bike racing, et cetera, like you have -- it's like the two pressures, like which one is the greater pressure? Is it the pressure to
make money, right, the drive to make money or the costs that are imposed if you get caught?
And I wonder, do you think -- I mean, it sounds like the balance is getting closer, but do you think the balance is restored enough?
LILLIS: Well, so, I think one of the things that makes racing a little bit tricky is there's actually -- we're talking about two different sets of
medications when we talk about medication and horse racing, right? There's the illegal doping agents, right? There's the stuff like blood doping or,
you know, even steroids, which have been outlawed in horse racing since 2008. Then there is this whole host of completely legal therapeutics,
right? The same kind of medication that human athletes take, joint anti- inflammatory, joint injections, for example.
And there's a huge debate in horse racing about how do we appropriately medicate -- or sorry, how do we appropriately regulate these drugs so that
they are only given to enable the athlete to perform comfortably and safely, that they are not given in such a way that they mask injury and
potentially create more injury down the line. That's a really, really tough line to walk.
And when you see headlines about medication violations in racing, like Bob Baffert in the 2021 Kentucky Derby, for example, is almost always for that
kind of drug, right? It's for the legal agents that racing is trying to figure out, how do we do this in a way that enables people to do this
sport, make some money at it, but also protects the animal?
SCIUTTO: Did you learn something about -- I mean, you've been around horses all your life. Did you learn something that you didn't know?
[18:55:00]
LILLIS: I think the most interesting thing that I learned is that drug -- and this is true in human sports also. Drug testing is not an infallible
arbiter. It cannot tell you how a substance got into an animal's body. And I mean, horse or human right? It can tell you, OK, this substance exists
here, but it can't tell you was it administered intentionally or was it perhaps, you know, contamination? Was it a groom that maybe had himself
taken an illegal drug, had it on his hands, he touched the horse, and then the horse has it -- now has cocaine or methamphetamine, for example, in his
system?
I think I thought that the chemists were going to be able to give me the answers about who are the good guys and who are the bad guys, as in human
sports, nothing could be further from the truth.
SCIUTTO: It is good to hear though that the death rate is down.
LILLIS: Hugely improved.
SCIUTTO: So, the book is "Death of a Racehorse." The author is Katie Bo Lillis, my colleague. We wish you the best luck with it.
LILLIS: Thanks so much, Jim.
SCIUTTO: And thanks so much to all of you for joining me today. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. You've been watching "The Brief." Please have a
great weekend.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:00:00]
END
