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The Brief with Jim Sciutto
Air India; Engine Fuel Supply Was Cut Just Before Air India Crash; Trump Surveys The Flood Damage In Texas; Family Self-Deports To Mexico; U.S. State Department Layoffs; Tariff On Canadian Goods Starts August 1; Russia Intensifies Attacks On Ukraine; European Ramping Up Defense Spending. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired July 11, 2025 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. And you're watching
"The Brief."
Just ahead this hour, new report has found that the fuel supply to the engines was cut off right before an Air India jet crashed, killing 260
people last month. President Donald Trump says he's never seen anything like it as he surveys the damage from deadly floods in Texas. CNN follows a
family in Pennsylvania driven by fear of the U.S. immigration crackdown as they leave the country voluntarily for a new life in Mexico.
We do begin though with the first official findings into what may have caused that Air India jet crash last month. A preliminary report released
by Indian authorities points to a possible issue with the engine fuel supply. A warning these images of this crash are disturbing.
You may remember the London-bound jet had barely left the runway at the Ahmedabad Airport before, as you see there, it's slowly and steadily glided
into the ground. Some 260 people on board that plane and on the ground were killed.
Joining me now is Richard Quest. And, Richard, as we look at what the cockpit voice recordings are showing here, one pilot asking the other, why
did you cut off? The other pilot replied, I did not do so. Then the switches were moved back into the normal in-flight positions. Does that
point to you as the fuel supply switches were accidentally turned off?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE AND CNN ANCHOR, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS: Yes. I mean, the evidence is the reason why we don't know, but
the data shows that the plane takes off and everything is normal, and then about 30, 40 seconds into the flight, the fuel cutoff switches are moved
from run to cut.
And you -- it's not just a switch that you flick, you have to pull it up, lift it over a nodule, and then let go of it. And then, if you look at the
pictures of the aircraft, that's very much what we see. You see the plane taking off and all of a sudden, it's as if, you know, many of us said, it
looks as though the fuel's being cut off. It looks as if the engine has just stopped, and that's what happened.
And then you have this dialogue between the pilots. We don't know who's speaking. We know one pilot says, why did you switch off the cutoff
switches? The other says, I didn't switch them off. Either say -- whatever happens, they then move the switch out and up and put it back into run, but
it's too late. The plane has nowhere near enough altitude for the engines to reignite and to get going again, and the plane crashes.
Now, that's what we know, Jim. What we don't know is why. We have no idea. Because these aren't two little switches that you would just normally be
touching at that particular in the process. There's the flaps that you might be doing, but it's too early for that. There's the gear up, which was
still down. The landing gear was still down. That's in a different part of the cockpit, that knob. So, why anybody would be fiddling with the cutoff
switches at that point is a completed utter mystery.
SCIUTTO: There had been some who noted, including on our air, the deployment of that alternate power source, right? I forget the acronym for
it.
QUEST: The RAT.
SCIUTTO: Exactly. The RAT.
QUEST: The Ram Air Turbine.
SCIUTTO: And that would happen automatically if the engines were to lose power? I mean, so those are consistent with what we know now.
QUEST: Completely. The engines lose power. When the engines get cut off, the electricity to all systems loses because the engines are the generators
in a sense. Therefore, the RAT deploys to give the barest minimum amount of power for control services, the absolute barest minimum. Certainly nothing
like enough power that would've been required in this particular case.
[18:05:00]
No. I mean, look, you know, we know what happened for what -- here's where I think we're -- it's moving towards pilot and not mechanical, because
knowing what they know, they haven't made any recommendations either to Boeing or to G.E., the manufacturers of the engines. So, there doesn't seem
to be some suggestion that somehow the switches flipped themselves or that there was an electrical shortage.
The data recorders show the switches being moved. And I have a sad feeling, Jim, this is going to be one of those investigations that we will never
know the reason why other than somebody made a mistake.
SCIUTTO: Goodness. Well, those families certainly deserve answers. Richard Quest, thanks so much. Joining us now, CNN Safety Analyst David Soucie.
And, David. You know, a cockpit well certainly. Given Richard's description of how that fuel cutoff switch works, it's not something you just elbow can
accidentally hit and knock, right? It requires an active move. I mean, can you describe any circumstances under which a pilot would do that?
DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST, FORMER FAA SAFETY INSPECTOR AND AUTHOR, "MALAYSIA AIRLINES FLIGHT 370": Well, they're designed to be intentionally
moved. You cannot accidentally bump against them riding in the jump seat behind the pilots. You have perfect access and view to this panel and what
happens with those switches. But throughout the years, those switches have been improved to make sure that they cannot be accidentally moved and that
they're not manual -- I mean, they're not automatic. They don't move themselves in any manner. They have to be lifted, moved and reset.
Now, these were done within one second of each other. So, it's not like, oh, I picked the wrong switch and I moved it. It was intentionally moving
it then going to the next switch, within a second after that, and moving that switch as well.
So, as with Richard, we may never know why this happened, but we do know that it did happen, and we don't know who yet. One of the things as an
investigator I would be doing right away is the enhanced flight data recorder that were in this machine will tell you, you can analyze the
voices and see which one said who to what. But at that point, you're just pointing fingers saying, who did -- who made -- move the switches?
But as you know, in the recording it says, I didn't move the switches, but someone did. And there were only two people in that cockpit. So, no other
explanation.
SCIUTTO: Does it at least raise the possibility, and I almost hesitate to ask this, but because it's early, that this was intentional?
SOUCIE: I'll tell you, I would -- if it was just one switch that happened that caused this, first of all, the aircraft could have continued flight
because the other engine would still be running, and it's perfectly equipped to do that. But the fact that a second switch was pulled and then
denied that it happened, and then seconds after that, they realized what had happened and someone moved them back into the run position. By then, it
was too late. The engines had already spooled so slow that there was no hydraulic pressure, and that's what deploys that RAT, the Ram Air Turbine,
to provide hydraulic power to be able to bring the landing gear up or move the flight controls.
So, it -- I hate to go there now, but that's one of the things I'd be looking in as an investigator is the background of the pilots, just like we
did with German Air -- or German Wings when it crashed and determined that was a suicide. So, those are the things you look at, is the history of the
pilots and see if there could have been an intent.
SCIUTTO: With MH-370, of course, and it's still not a hundred percent clear what happened there, but it struck me that it was some time before
investigators started looking into the background of the pilot and what his motivations might be, his activities before. Given this information, if you
were running it, would you be starting such a process right now?
SOUCIE: Absolutely I would. I'd have subpoenas. We'd be at the pilot's houses grabbing any information we could about the pilot, what they've
done. I'd be doing -- pulling records from the bank accounts to see if there's anything that was strange about that. Habits, activities, divorces.
All of these things can affect the mindset of a pilot. And again, I don't want to go there. I'm not accusing the pilots of anything at this point,
but that's just where I would go with the investigation at this phase.
SCIUTTO: Final question, in your experience, has there been a previous incident where both -- or the fuel switches to all passenger jets engines
were turned off?
SOUCIE: There was one way back in the '60s, we're talking about before these switches -- and again, these switches have been in place since the
'70s, but there was one where it was -- the switch was smashed across. But again, that was just one engine that went out. And I can't recall the
flight number at this point, but I can look it up and find out.
[18:10:00]
But there was one incident. I wasn't involved in it. I was too young then, if you can believe that. But I did have one that the switch was smashed or
bumped by the engineer. The flight engineer is on 727. And that did happen once, but it was very obvious what happened. And those switches have been
improved. In fact, they've added guards on the side of the switches to make sure that there isn't just an inadvertent bump where the switch gets broken
off or something like that too. So, there've been a lot of improvements, but extremely rare to see this happen to cut off the engine.
I have seen though, Jim, I should mention that if an engine failure happens on one engine, then occasionally they will try to shut down that engine
because it might have a fire or something going on so that the other engine continues. And I have seen that, I've done an investigation before where
they shut down the wrong engine and it ended up shutting down the good engine and then causing an accident. But I've never seen anything like
this, Jim.
SCIUTTO: David Soucie, thanks so much for walking us through it.
SOUCIE: Of course.
SCIUTTO: President Trump visiting Central Texas to survey the devastation caused by last week's catastrophic and deadly flooding that has now killed
more than 120 people.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: We just gave our warmest condolences. But you say to yourself, you know, how do you give condolences? How do you do that
to a young person that three days ago was here, four days ago was here and vibrant, and now is no longer here?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Well, this is difficult. Search operations continue for the more than 160 people who remain missing. Julia Vargas Jones is live in Center
Point, Texas. And, Julia, there have been broad questions, including from people affected, about alert systems in place in Kerr County in advance,
and the president was asked about that today too. Tell us how he responded and tell us what you're hearing there locally.
JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's been a lot of questions, Jim, both at a local level and at a federal level, right? Like
the president also talked about -- he praised FEMA today, something that's different from what we've heard him in the past few months. So, they've
talked about FEMA as well. Governor Abbott saying also that FEMA did a fantastic job. But CNN reported that it -- there were delays on that
response from FEMA that could have helped that response get to that ground here sooner.
And then, at a local level, Jim, as well, we're hearing from authorities here that they had given a report back in October telling FEMA that this
exact tragedy could have happened, and asking for an alert system, sirens specifically to be put into place to avoid exactly this. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JONES (voice-over): From shovels and chainsaws to heavy machinery, volunteers in Central Texas are using any means necessary to find those who
are still missing.
CHIEF CHARLES HOLT, CENTER POINT VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENT: We're dealing with lots of huge debris fields that take lots of heavy equipment, and each
time we debrief something, you know, more dogs, more people are moving through and we're checking layer by layer by layer.
JONES (voice-over): Seven days out from the rings that brought catastrophic flooding, search efforts along the banks of the Guadalupe continue.
HOLT: Hopes and prayers is what we're running on in adrenaline. We want to make sure that we get everybody accounted for. That's our goal.
JONES (voice-over): We rode along with one of the teams working through some of the hardest hit spots.
JONES: This is what the search and rescue operations are looking like now seven days on. They're still going strong. And not just the heavy machinery
here, all of this has been combed through by different crews many times over, and they're checking even as these machines are making these piles to
make sure that absolutely nobody is left behind.
JONES (voice-over): Officials tell us the scene up the river is the same for the 30 miles between Center Point and Camp Mystic.
DANNY HILL, FIREFIGHTER AND UNITED INCIDENT COMMANDER, CENTER POINT: You were looking at America and Texas. This is what it looks like when good
hearted people come together to complete a mission with people in need.
JONES (voice-over): Food, water, and donations pouring in.
HILL: Oh, the entire town is here. They're helping. But you -- if you look around, you have support from all over Texas. You have support from the
state surrounding us just so they can bring a cooler, just so they can sit there and be side by side with the people that are struggling and lend a
hand for whatever they need.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JONES (on camera): And, Jim, we have also heard about those 160 people that are still missing. Those numbers have not gone down very much in the past
few days. And I want to explain to you why. You know, a lot of the recovery in the obvious places has already taken place. And now, what these
volunteers and firefighters are facing is just so much debris. They're talking about cars, entire cars that are covered with gravel at the bottom
of this river.
[18:15:00]
You know, the challenge has just increased an entire order of magnitude, and that is what they will be facing in the coming days and likely weeks to
come, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Such hard work. And goodness, it must be such difficult work as well. Julia Vargas Jones, we appreciate having you there.
Well, NASA is actually helping search and rescue operations in Texas with its WB-57 aircraft. You see it there. It is a high-altitude research plane
equipped with advanced sensors and technology, which can provide high resolution images and data now being shared with those search teams on the
ground.
Joining me now, Mallory Yates, a WB-57 sensor equipment operator. She flew in that aircraft, operated those various sensors this week. Thanks so much
for joining, Mallory.
MALLORY YATES, WB-57 SENSOR EQUIPMENT OPERATOR, NASA: Happy to be here.
SCIUTTO: So, first, I wonder if you could describe what you saw and what data you were able to collect when you were in the air on Tuesday?
YATES: Yes, of course. So, our aircraft flew at about 23,000 feet and we used our dynamite sensor on the nose of the airplane and we collected both
visible and infrared imagery of the Guadalupe River along from Camp Mystic, probably up towards Kerrville.
In the backseat, I actually can't see a whole lot while I'm collecting. I've got very small screens with little real estate. So, I had our scanning
software up on one part of it and the imagery on the different display. But I was on the ground for the second flight that we did. And we just -- there
was a lot of devastation that we were able to see in the imagery.
SCIUTTO: Can I ask, does the imagery -- do the sensors, are they able to identify bodies in the wreckage?
YATES: No, we were mostly looking at context imagery. So, looking at -- we were up at, like I said, 23,000 feet. So, our resolution is good, but I
wouldn't call it necessarily that good. You saw a lot of trees falling over. You could see where the water had shifted, river banks where bridges
had been washed over, that kind of thing.
SCIUTTO: Now, infrared sensors, does that allow you to see -- and other sensors you have, and you of course know the technology better than me, but
does that allow you to see submerged or even buried objects, for instance, as Julia was describing, a car say that might still have people inside it?
YATES: Not necessarily. The infrared it shows different temperatures. That's kind of a temperature gradient, if you think of it that way. So, hot
is white, dark as cold. And so, if there's a thermal gradient, you can see that. So, like birds stand out really well against cold backgrounds because
they're really warm. But imagery, we do come -- space capsules coming back, they're very cold, so they stand out really well, or they're really hot
when they come against the cold sky. So, you're able to see distinguished good features there. But it's more -- if you think of a thermal view, would
be better.
SCIUTTO: Has this technology had success in the wake of other natural disasters?
YATES: Not to my -- I don't think we've ever used it for this exact purpose before. So, I don't think that we've tried it before. So, this was kind of
a test subject case on how well it would work. And I think we were very successful. We got 23,000 -- over 23,000 images of the context area between
the two different flights that we did. And those all get overlaid over a map because they're ortho rectified and they're GPS tagged. So, everything
kind of gets laid out in the right spot.
So, all the certain rescue teams and the resource analysts can go and look out the devastation in different areas and kind of send the resources where
they need to go.
SCIUTTO: Well, Mallory Yates, we appreciate the work you and your team at NASA did here. Thanks so much for joining.
YATES: Welcome. Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Still to come, the U.S. State Department has fired more than 1,300 employees and it's not ruling out future cuts.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:20:00]
SCIUTTO: As President Trump's new domestic policy bill gives funding to ICE and the enormous boost, one family has made a tough decision to self-
deport. That is voluntarily leave the country to Mexico, leaving behind their life in the U.S.
Julio is an undocumented immigrant. His wife and three young children are American citizens. Over the last six months, they have packed up their
belongings in Pittsburgh and left just a few weeks ago with a one-way flight to Mexico City. Priscilla Alvarez has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SASHA MENDOZA, U.S. CITIZEN (voice-over): These are the main pictures from our house that we didn't want to just throw away.
PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sasha Mendoza has the impossible task of packing up her family's life in
Pittsburgh into a handful of suitcases.
S. MENDOZA: It's really hard to tell a four-year-old that they can't bring their toys or their stuffed animals. There's just not enough room. We can't
put a stuffed animal and then have no pants. I've literally never felt anxiety the way that I have in the last few years here.
ALVAREZ: So, you are saying 'bye to the U.S. for good?
JULIO MENDOZA, UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANT: For good. Yes, yes, for good.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): Fearful of president Donald Trump's immigration crackdown. Sasha, her husband, Julio, and their three kids are leaving
behind the life they built together.
ALVAREZ: What are you the most excited for in Mexico?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The pool.
ALVAREZ: The pool?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the beach.
ALVAREZ: The beach.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): Julio is an undocumented immigrant from Mexico. Sasha and their three children are all U.S. citizens. They decided to make the
move together only moments after Trump took office.
J. MENDOZA: It was an executive order being signed. And that was her call for, like, what do you think about moving to Mexico? And I said, honestly,
at this point, yes, let's do it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) to Mexico.
S. MENDOZA: We're going to move to Mexico. Not today.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): And with that, the family began to wind down their lives, sifting through keepsakes and moving out of their home.
S. MENDOZA: Say 'bye to the house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bye-bye. Miss you.
ALVAREZ: When you were dating, did your status as being undocumented come up at all?
S. MENDOZA: On our first date, we kind of, like, were mentioning it without mentioning it. And at one point, he ordered a drink and he asked for extra
ice. They said, no, we don't we don't do ice here. And he was hmm. That was like the only thing he needed to say.
J. MENDOZA: So, by the way --
ALVAREZ (voice-over): Julio crossed the U.S. southern border when he was 11 years old and he's lived in Pittsburgh ever since.
S. MENDOZA: One of his first concerns when we talked about moving is like, how am I going to watch the Steeler games?
ALVAREZ: You're a Pittsburgh native, for all intents and purposes.
S. MENDOZA: Oh, my God, yes.
J. MENDOZA: Yes.
ALVAREZ: What made Trump, a second term, more nerve-wracking for you that - - to come to a decision that you had to leave the country?
J. MENDOZA: There are no limits. There are no limits on being a target. The only main concern is like, he looks brown, he looks different. He don't
speak English. He's the one. It doesn't matter.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: That's where things stand tonight in the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): They were confronted with their worst nightmare when Kilmar Abrego Garcia was mistakenly deported to a notorious megaprison in
El Salvador.
S. MENDOZA (voice-over): I can see myself in that and I don't want us to wait until we're in the same situation.
[18:25:00]
ALVAREZ: There are people who will say, you came to the U.S. illegally. Why didn't you do it the right way? What do you say to people?
J. MENDOZA: If you were to be put in my situation at my age, to tell them to do it the right way, the whole process pretty much takes about 15 to 20
years. By that time, I don't think my kids or anyone's kids who are starving or are in a dangerous situation can wait 15-20 years for you to
come here and start working.
S. MENDOZA: What do we say that we could get when we get there?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).
S. MENDOZA: No, we did not say that.
ALVAREZ: How did you approach the conversation with your kids?
S. MENDOZA: They know the realistic part of it, which is that it will be very difficult for them to adapt to, especially -- mostly language wise.
That's like our biggest thing. They're not anywhere near fluent and they are going to be going into a school that is Spanish speaking.
Who's that? That's you.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): For Sasha leaving the U.S. also means saying goodbye to the places she's called home.
ALVAREZ: You grew up in this house. It seems like you all get together in this house for family reunions. What is it like for you to leave this house
and what it represents to you?
S. MENDOZA: It is definitely hard because, yes, there's a lot of good memories. This has always been like the kind of comeback place. As far as
we know, we won't be able to do that. We've kind of all decided that today is most likely the last time that we'll all be like in the same place at
the same time.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): Hours of research behind them, the Mendoza family spent their final days in Pittsburgh, saying goodbye to family and friends.
J. MENDOZA: Stay safe, stay safe.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): It's a decision not taken lightly. But for Julio, no other choice.
J. MENDOZA: Rolling the dice will be staying here. That will be rolling the dice. Playing with my life, playing with my kids' life, playing with my
wife's life. That would be a gamble. Yes, I would say it's taking a gamble. I'm taking a certain win on this one for sure.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Well, and now, they're leaving the country. Thanks to Priscilla Alvarez for that story. A U.S. State Department official says the agency
has begun firing more than 1,300 staff today. The layoffs happening just as U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio is out of the country. The dramatic
overhaul is part of the Trump administration's broader efforts to shrink the federal workforce.
CNN's Jennifer Hansler joins me now. First, Jennifer, what areas were most affected by these cuts?
JENNIFER HANSLER, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT REPORTER: Well, Jim, there's a total of about 1,300 people who are being cut from the State Department here in
Washington, D.C. These cuts are exclusively here in the headquarters, in the nation's capital, and they are mostly focusing on the some 300 offices
that are being either eliminated or dramatically altered under the State Department restructuring plan.
These are offices that have dealt with human rights, for example, refugees, global women's issues, someone who worked in encountering and violent
extremism, and the counter-terrorism bureau was laid off, someone who worked in educational exchanges was laid off. So, there is just a wide
variety of people who are being impacted by these changes.
Now, Jim, these cuts are affecting both members of this civil service as well as foreign service members. These are diplomats who often undergo
years of training. They specialize in multiple languages, and they are the ones who are serving around the world in our embassies and consulates
abroad.
Now, this restructuring and these cuts are coming at a time where former and current diplomats, as well as opponents of the cuts, are saying that
diplomacy is more important than ever, particularly with the crises around the world that the Trump administration says that it wants to solve.
Now, this is coming of course, as the Trump administration said they want to reduce bloat. They said the State Department was overly bureaucratic.
They said that these cuts are not affecting core functions. We heard from Secretary of State Marco Rub on this yesterday, and he defended the cuts as
being done very precisely.
However, as these people are being fired, there are questions about how this is going to impact America, both here at home and abroad. A number of
diplomats were greeted what was called a clap out as they were leaving today. There were scenes of tears, people hugging their loved ones as they
left the State Department for perhaps the very last time.
I spoke with one woman, Olga Bashbush. She had served in the foreign service for 20 years, mostly here as well as offices abroad. She just
happened to be assigned to an office that has now been eliminated, and she said that people are going to feel the impact, and she and her fellow
diplomats are still willing to serve. Take a listen to what she told me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OLGA BASHBUSH, CAREER DIPLOMAT: What's the most important thing that the American people need to know is that it harms you. We protect your national
security. I focused on public diplomacy. I focus on English language programs, cultural, and educational exchanges. Why is that important? It's
because that's the manner in which we connect with others, and we show them what America is all about. Without our diplomacy professionals, we are
going to have those forever wars that Congress and the United States and the president have said that they don't want to be in.
[18:30:00]
We are here to serve and protect, and I'm still willing to serve and all of my colleagues here today are willing to serve.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANSLER: Now, of course, Jim, these rifts, these firings had been looming over the workforce here for many weeks as they were anticipating this as of
July 1st. The Supreme Court didn't rule until after that date, but there was obviously a lot of lack of morale. The morale here was terrible and
people obviously have a lot of emotions today.
SCIUTTO: Is it clear, from your reporting or from what the people who were fired, were told what the standards were? How was it decided who was fired
and who remains?
HANSLER: That's a great question. And we heard from his senior State Department official calling this personnel agnostic, in their words. They
said this was solely looking at the functions that these fired employees were serving. They did not look at how long folks had been serving, what
their skills were. It was exclusively based on where you happened to be on May 29th, which was the day the secretary approved this reorganization
plan.
So, folks said this was not merit based. It was simply by chance. And a lot of folks say this doesn't really make sense.
SCIUTTO: Jenny Hansler, thanks so much for joining. We do have some sad news to report now. Washington and the country has lost a true political
legend in public service, a towering figure in U.S. politics. David Gergen, an adviser to four U.S. presidents, has died at the age of 83.
Gergen began his career back in the Nixon White House. He then served in the Ford and Reagan administrations, as well as the Clinton White House.
Gergen also spent years offering his unique insight and expert take on the U.S. political scene right here on CNN, where he served as a senior
political analyst. He was also a professor at Harvard, a public lecturer who spent years promoting the virtues of responsible leadership in what is,
of course, an increasingly divided political landscape.
I dealt with David for many years in person and on the air. He was always a gentleman. He had insight that few, if any, could match. My thoughts and
our team's thoughts go to his family and his friends. And we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:35:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." I'm Jim Sciutto. And here are more international headlines we're watching today.
A preliminary report into last month's deadly Air India plane crash is pointing to an issue with the engine fuel supply. The report says that the
fuel control switches, two of them in the cockpit, had been flipped off, cutting off the fuel supply to the engines. 260 people on board the plane
and on the ground were killed in that crash.
President Trump visiting Central Texas to survey the devastation caused by last week's catastrophic flooding, which has now been confirmed to have
killed more than 120 people. He met with first responders, officials, and grieving families. He deflected questions about why there was less warning
for those floods. At least 160 are still missing.
A son of the Mexican drug, kingman -- kingpin, Joaquin El Chapo Guzman has pled guilty to drug trafficking in the U.S. Ovidio Guzman Lopez also
admitted to money laundering and firearms charges. The terms of his plea deal are still unclear. Guzman Lopez was extradited to the U.S. in 2023.
One of his brothers was arrested last year in Texas, along with the alleged Sinaloa cartel boss, Ismael El Mayo Zambada.
Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney is set to hold a cabinet level meeting early next week to address Donald Trump's latest tariff threat against
America's neighbor and longtime ally. The U.S. president announced late Thursday he will raise the tariff on Canada from the current 25 percent to
35 percent on August 1st. All this on top of sector specific tariffs on steel, aluminum, and autos that were already in place, and by the way,
violated a deal that Trump himself negotiated with Canada in his first term.
President Trump says he made the decision in part because of Canada's failure, he says, to control the flow of Fentanyl into the U.S. He's made
that argument many times despite overwhelming evidence only a very tiny amount of the drug is being smuggled into the U.S. from Canada. Trade talks
between the two countries are continuing.
The premier of the Canadian province, Alberta, Danielle Smith, remains hopeful the two sides can reach an agreement soon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANIELLE SMITH, PREMIER OF ALBERTA, CANADA: We have seen movement. And so, I'm -- I still remain hopeful. What I -- everything that we are hearing is
that the two leaders are aiming towards coming to some agreement by August 1st, maybe before the end of summer, if it drags on a bit. But I think
there's a will on both sides to try to find some answers to some of these irritants.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: President Trump says he plans to set blanket tariff rates as high as 20 percent on trading partners who have not yet reached deals with the
U.S. Joining me now is Justin Wolfers, professor of Economics and Public Policy at the University of Michigan. Justin, good to have you.
JUSTIN WOLFERS, PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS AND PUBLIC POLICY, UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN: And pleasure, Jim.
SCIUTTO: First, I want to begin with a statistic that some of the president's supporters are celebrating now, and that is that in the month
of June, the U.S. collected $27 billion in tariffs, and then in a rarity had a month of a surplus, a budget surplus. Can you make clear who paid
those $27 billion in tariffs?
WOLFERS: Yes. And let me make it clear in an absolutely literal way. If you order a washing machine from abroad, they put it on a ship, it comes to the
port. Say Home Depot was the one who ordered it, because that's probably where you buy your washer. It will then sit in customs and they will not
release it until Home Depot pays the tariff.
So, at a very literal level, a tariff is a tax on Americans. In that case, it's a tax on Home Depot. That doesn't mean that Home Depot actually pays
it. When Home Depot's cost go up by a hundred bucks, most of the time it'll jack up its prices by a hundred bucks. So, a reasonable guess, this comes
from my friends on Wall Street, is for every hundred dollars in tariffs, you might expect the foreign exporter to reduce their price by $15. So,
they bear a little bit of the cost. Might expect Home Depot to reduce their margin by $15, but you, the customer is going to end up paying $70 of that
tariff. So, overall, 85 percent of it will end up getting born by Americans.
[18:40:00]
SCIUTTO: You assess that the tariffs, as they currently stand, would cost the average American family a total of $2,400 a year. I imagine you
calculated that by adding up, well, a lot of washing machines and so on.
WOLFERS: Yes. And the important thing to understand here is just how deeply integrated our lives are. And so, I'd say to your viewers at home, go
through the next day, and as you pull on your t-shirt, look where it's from. As you walk down the grocery store, don't just look at the price of
the goods, look where they came from. Even the things that say that they're made in America. For instance, you might buy an American made car, I can
guarantee you the tires on that car don't come from the United States because we don't grow any rubber here.
And so, it's not just that you and I will be paying more, it's also that American companies will be paying more for their inputs. The president has
now announced extra tariffs on steel and aluminum and copper, which of course are the inputs that American factories use. So, foreign factories
can get cheap access to those inputs. And in America and America only, our factories will have to pay an extra 50 percent surcharge to get the inputs
they need. That's going to make it hard for them to be competitive.
SCIUTTO: So, I want to run through two of the reasons Trump has cited for assigning these tariffs. The first, of course, that this would bring back
manufacturing jobs to the U.S. Is there any evidence that tariffs have or will over time bring back a measurable number of manufacturing jobs?
SCIUTTO: Jim, actually, let me go a step further. You said you want to go through two of the rationales. What's striking about this set of policies
is that it's a set of policies in search of a rationale. So, from day one of Trump, we were told originally it would keep fentanyl out of the U.S.,
then it would prevent illegal immigration from Canada and Mexico, then it would save manufacturing, then it would boost national security, then it
would give us tax revenue, so we didn't have to have an income tax. Then we were told it would solve bilateral trade deficits. Then after the
disastrous Liberation Day tariffs, we were told it would give us leverage for trade deals. We'd get 90 deals in 90 days. At the moment, we have two
frameworks and we're at day 92.
Then we were told it would defend the role of the dollar as a reserve currency. Then we'll use tariffs against Canada to get them to drop their
digital services tax. Then Trump has decided to start using it to get foreign policy leverage, to get Spain to spend more on defense or to
retaliate at some countries who disagreed with his bombing of Iran. And most recently, he's added tariffs to Brazil in an effort to, believe it or
not, keep the leader of a coup out of jail.
I gave you that list to give you a sense of the absurdity. The story we're being told changes every day. And the problem is when you don't have a
reason for a policy, you can't design the policy in a coherent way.
SCIUTTO: And listen, what it seems to come down to is that it's a cudgel, right? It's a cudgel to see -- to achieve any number of outcomes. I mean, I
suppose the question is, has it achieved any of them?
WOLFERS: So, far it looks like no. It -- we are not seeing manufacturing jobs returning to the United States. Trying to ask Canada to get rid of
fentanyl, where most of our -- almost no fentanyl comes from Canada. That doesn't work. And on and on it goes. The problem is that this is a cudgel,
but it's a cudgel that actually hurts Americans first, right? It's a tax on Americans.
So, basically Trump is going and he is saying to the Brazilians, right now, I'm going to tax my people every time they buy goods from you, unless you
let Bolsonaro free from jail. You could see the first people that's going to hurt is Americans.
You can also see there's a deep failure to understand tariffs and how business works with -- what you start to do is put tariffs on the inputs
that American businesses use, that then makes American businesses less productive and less competitive internationally.
SCIUTTO: Justin Wolfers, thanks so much for walking us through it all.
WOLFERS: Great pleasure, mate.
SCIUTTO: Still to come, Russia yet again further intensifies its aerial attacks on Ukraine. We're going to hear from the CEO of DroneShield, which
is designed to try to protect Ukraine from some of those drones coming in. This as Europe is ramping up its defense spending.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:45:00]
SCIUTTO: Russian strikes on Ukraine have killed at least 10 people on Thursday. The mayor of Kharkiv says a maternity hospital was evacuated
after Russia attacked it overnight. They reported no injuries. Donald Trump says he has struck a deal now with NATO for the U.S. to send weapons to
Ukraine. The president added that it's the military alliance, NATO, that will pay for those weapons, quote in his words, "a hundred percent."
Russia is intensifying its aerial assault on Ukraine. It launched hundreds of drones on the country this week. That assault is testing Ukraine's air
defenses. Now, some European nations are boosting their own defense spending as well, concerned in part by the threat from Russia.
Counter drone manufacturer DroneShield says it has now secured a record European defense contract. Oleg Vornik is the CEO of DroneShield and he
joins me now. Thanks so much for coming on.
OLEG VORNIK, CEO, DRONESHIELD: Thanks for having me on the program, Jim.
SCIUTTO: So, first one, development from this war is really the advent of drone warfare. And today, as you know better than me, drones now account
for most casualties on the frontlines. How did this happen? How did this happen so quickly?
VORNIK: Ukraine has really shown the potential for drones to become both reconnaissance machines. So, figuring out the location of enemy troops for
either artillery strikes or general intelligence, as well as delivering payloads themselves. So, striping grenades to small drones essentially.
This has been going for several years before the Ukraine war, but within that war, it has really accelerated by rapid innovation on both sides.
SCIUTTO: Troops on the ground, and civilians, of course as well, under enormous threat from drones. So, can you explain how DroneShield protects
people on the ground?
VORNIK: DroneShield started shipping equipment to Ukraine since the start of the war. Our equipment is able to sense drones large distances away as
they come, and that gives civilians or Ukraine military personnel ability to stay within the trenches or buildings as often. The idea is you
certainly don't want the drone to see you before you see the drone and have a chance to hide. And often also ability to repel the drone. So, our
equipment is able to safely neutralize them.
Right at the start of the war, but we're lucky in a sense that we were supplying meaningful quantity of counter drone equipment to Poland, and
then Poland turned around and donated all of that to Ukraine, and Ukrainians had a chance to rapidly evaluate against the Russian drones and
start asking for more equipment. So, then we started shipping equipment through for mostly foreign military aid packages of various countries. And
now, we have very large amount of gear in Ukraine protecting against Russian drones.
[18:50:00]
SCIUTTO: Militaries, including Russia, they're constantly upgrading and adjusting to technology on the ground, including, well, electronic warfare
designed to disable the drones in the air. So, how do you keep up with those constant changes?
VORNIK: We have what is arguably the largest engineering team in the world based in Sydney, developing ways for the scatter mouse game to detect and
take down the latest drones. And you might ask, well, how are you guys keeping up to date at the end of the world, in Australia, against what is a
global threat? And this is where our 10-year experience, right, since the start of the drone, small drone development comes in.
So, today, we deploy in dozens of countries around the world, and we are getting information from our customers and also from our devices, which
send the data about drones with end users can send back to us. So, we're able to rapidly innovate, do quarterly software updates, do hardware
refreshes quite often as well, to respond to that latest drone threat.
SCIUTTO: It's a brave new world, a dangerous one. Oleg Vornik, thanks so much for joining.
VORNIK: Pleasure.
SCIUTTO: Coming up, the field of play is set in the FIFA Club World Cup Final as an underdog takes on the reigning European champions. We'll have
more after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: 2025 FIFA Club World Cup is now set. The final after Paris Saint- Germain smashed Real Madrid. The score four-nothing. Three goals in the first half with the Parisians in the driver's seat early on. PSG will now
face Chelsea in Sunday's final at MetLife Stadium, just outside New York. The match will pit two of the three European Club champions from last
season against each other.
Oliver Kay is a senior football writer with The Athletic. So, who's got the advantage going into the final? Is it PSG?
OLIVER KAY, SENIOR FOOTBALL WRITER, THE ATHLETIC: I would certainly say it's PSG, Yes. They won the European Champions League, which is the main
competition in European Club football. They won it very convincingly a couple of months ago, six weeks ago, I think it was. They've ended the
season in spectacular style and they've been pretty spectacular in this tournament. Notably beating by Munich, two-nil in the quarter final, and as
you said, Real Madrid, four-nil in the semifinal. And they played wonderfully. And they -- it feels to me like they are the new sort of
rising power in the sport.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
KAY: And Chelsea, we've seen -- in England the last couple of years, we've seen them as a sort of, a bit of a conundrum, bit of an enigma, and they've
done well to get to the final, but I think they will have to raise the game considerably to avoid the same faith as Real Madrid.
[18:55:00]
SCIUTTO: So has the club -- World Cup, has it proven to be a winner as a tournament going forward? I mean, what's being asked of players right now
is pretty remarkable given they've got their club matches, they've got this -- the Club World Cup, the -- many of them preparing of course for the
World Cup next year. But there's a lot of money involved.
KAY: There is. There is. I mean, there were all kinds of complaints when this to the idea of this new expanded tournament was first talked about, a
32-team tournament in a calendar that was already widely regarded as sort of bulging and far too congested and needed games and tournaments taking
out.
FIFA, Gianni Infantino announced that there was going to be this new 32- team tournament. Players said, ugh, no, surely not. Clubs, a lot of them, coaches certainly felt it was something the sport just didn't need. And
then, funny enough, FIFA said that the prize money would be enormous with the winners getting all more than a hundred million dollars and each of the
32 participants getting sort of huge sums. And suddenly, those complaints went away.
So, I think it's been successful in some ways. I think it's been disappointing in others. I think Sunday will be the first sellout crowd of
the whole tournament. And there's have to be a lot of tickets, ticket prices slashed along the way. There've been real questions asked about
which teams are here. A lot of the best teams, Barcelona, Liverpool, Napoli, champions of Spain, England, and Italy aren't here. Two MLS teams
are.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Yes.
KAY: The big questions about the wisdom or the sanity of playing games in the afternoon heat in America.
SCIUTTO: Yes, it gets to a question of overall quality, but oftentimes, in these things, the money leads the way. Oliver Kay, thanks so much for
joining.
KAY: Always. Yes.
SCIUTTO: And thanks so much for all of you, for your company. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. You've been watching "The Brief." Please have a good
weekend and stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:00:00]
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