Return to Transcripts main page
The Brief with Jim Sciutto
Anti-Gaza War Protests; Trump Arrives In Scotland; Thailand-Cambodia Border Tension; Europe's Largest Automaker Reveals The Price Of U.S. Tariffs; Iran Nuclear Talks With Britain, France, And Germany; Iran's Position On Uranium Enrichment Unchanged; Homeland Security: 150,000 Deported In Last Six Months. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired July 25, 2025 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. And
you are watching "The Brief."
Just ahead this hour, anti-war protests ramp up inside Israel as hunger is enveloping Gaza. The U.K. promises the evacuation of children needing
critical medical assistance. Immigration is killing Europe and stop the windmills, President Donald Trump's message for Europe as he arrives in
Scotland for a five-day trip, mainly golfing while promising to talk trade with European leaders. And Thailand activates martial law along its border
with Cambodia as the conflict escalates between the two countries there. We're going to dig deeper into the causes. That conversation and plenty
more coming up.
We do begin though in Israel and in Gaza as well. In Israel, protests now calling for an end of the war there. A large crowd demonstrated in support
of the Gazan people a short time ago. Most anti-war protests in Israel tend to focus on releasing hostages. This one focused on the suffering of
Palestinians, as pictures of people starving to death there now pour out of Gaza.
Palestinian authorities say hunger has claimed the lives of at least 122 people since the start of the war. Most of them children, and most in the
last few months. Humanitarian groups accuse Israel of blocking aid from entering Gaza. Israel blames Hamas entirely. It says it will soon allow
other nations to airdrop aid in the Gaza. NGOs say those can be expensive and deadly.
The U.K., France, and Germany are just some of the countries calling on Israel to restart the flow of food and water into Gaza. The British prime
minister, Keir Starmer, says, the pathway to peace in the Israel-Hamas War includes recognizing a Palestinian State. Here's how he described the
situation there just moments ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEIR STARMER, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: The appalling scenes in Gaza are unrelenting, and I know the British people are sickened by what is
happening. The images of starvation and desperation are utterly horrifying. The denial of aid to children and to babies is completely unjustifiable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Prime Minister Starmer said the U.K. would work to evacuate critically ill children for treatment in Britain. Our Jeremy Diamond has
more about the suffering inside Gaza. Warning, this piece again contains images of the suffering there that are disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As starvation tightens its grip on Gaza, the most vulnerable are the first to find
themselves in its clutches. Amid months of Israeli restrictions, three-year old Mohamed (ph) weighs just 13 pounds. His cries speak to all that he's
lacking. Mohamed (ph) suffers from a muscle disorder, but with physical therapy and the right nutrition his mother, Hadaya (ph), said he was
healthy, active, and could sit upright. Not anymore. His small body has shed six pounds in short order.
If there's food, we eat. If there isn't, we have no power except to rely on God. Some days we go one or two days without eating. Gaza's hospitals are
filled with babies like Mohamed (ph) and worried mothers like Hadaya (ph), who are doing all they can to prevent their babies from becoming the next
statistic.
At least 54 people have starved to death in Gaza just this week, according to the Palestinian Health Ministry. It's impossible for women to breastfeed
without food. How is a mother supposed to build immunity?
There seems to be no end in sight to this misery, at least not anytime soon. Gaza ceasefire talks that would've surged humanitarian aid now
faltering. In its place are only the smallest flickers of hope. The World Central Kitchen has been able to reopen some of its kitchens.
And facing global outrage, Israel agreeing for the first time in months to authorize airdrops of food aid into this ocean of despair.
[18:05:00]
DIAMOND: Amid those images of starvation that we are seeing in Gaza, this is one of the largest anti-war gatherings that we have seen in Israel. And
you can see behind me the people who are reflecting what is happening in Gaza, people who are dying while trying to get food inside Gaza or simply
not being able to get food at all.
DIAMOND (voice-over): Many here are Palestinians with Israeli citizenship.
SHADAM ABO YOUNIS, RESIDENT OF SAKHNIN: Because it was important to raise our voices in front of everyone and to show that we are always here and we
always stand for Gaza. And yes, we want the -- this to end, the war to end.
DIAMOND (voice-over): There are also Jewish Israelis here, part of a small but increasingly vocal minority who believe Israel's actions in Gaza are
criminal.
DEBBIE EYLON, HAIFA RESIDENT: They think also people are starting to realize what's being done in their name and the things are starting to leak
into the Israeli media, which were hidden away.
DIAMOND (voice-over): Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Sakhnin, Israel.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Joining now to discuss the crisis in Gaza, Jeremy Konyndyk, he's the President of Refugees International. Thanks so much for joining.
JEREMY KONYNDYK, PRESIDENT, REFUGEES INTERNATIONAL AND FORMER DIRECTOR, USAID OFFICE OF U.S. FOREIGN DISASTER ASSISTANCE: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Now, you pointed out that once a famine gathers momentum, the effort required to contain it increases exponentially. Is Gaza on such a
precipice right now?
KONYNDYK: Gaza seems to be turning that corner right now, and you can see a few signs of that. The number of deaths from outright starvation has
increased dramatically, even just over the past week. So, the week that we're in is on track to equal the number of starvation deaths that we've
seen in the war up until this point.
SCIUTTO: Now, Israel blames Hamas. They say Hamas is restricting aid, stealing aid.
KONYNDYK: Yes.
SCIUTTO: Reuters reports that an internal government analysis by USAID found no evidence of systematic theft of aid by Hamas. Who is responsible
for the restriction of food aid there in your view?
KONYNDYK: The biggest factor in limiting food aid and all sorts of aid that would be going into Gaza is Israeli government policy. And during the
ceasefire previously, the Israeli government threw open the flood gates, if you will, and allowed aid organizations to bring in hundreds of truckloads
of aid per day and to move and distribute it freely throughout Gaza. With the withdrawal from the ceasefire in March, that all ended in a several
month-long blockades ensued, and that's what brought things to this point now.
SCIUTTO: The U.S. is involved in this Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, which is now the organization responsible. U.S.-Israeli partnership, I suppose
you could call it, for getting aid in. It's greatly reduced among other things the number of points -- aid distribution points down to four. Does
this mean that given the shortages we're seeing there and the deaths and the malnutrition that the U.S. shares responsibility for what we're seeing
now in Gaza?
KONYNDYK: I think that's indisputable. You know, the U.S. government has leverage over the Israeli government. They could be pushing for a full
reopening of the aid operation, or at least a significant expansion of it. Instead, they seem to be distracted by this, kind of farcical thing called
the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, which has led to the death of about a thousand Palestinians outside their sites on the way to try and seek aid
because it forces them in a very desperate state and very large crowds past IDF perimeters.
SCIUTTO: Now, you have Israel giving permission now for other nations to airdrop aid, and we have seen nations do this before. We've seen the U.S.
military do it before. People have died. I mean, they've drowned in the waters trying to get food. They've been hit by these things. And it didn't,
at that time prove, to be an efficient or particularly successful way of getting aid to a lot of people. Is there any reason to believe that
airdrops now will do any better?
KONYNDYK: No. Look, you can't airdrop healthcare, you can't airdrop therapeutic inpatient malnutrition treatment. You know, these are the
things that need to be happening right now. It's a shiny object to chase, to give the appearance that the Israeli government is making a concession,
but it's not really going to substantively change the situation.
SCIUTTO: And the people suffer. Jeremy Konyndyk, we appreciate you walking us through it.
KONYNDYK: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Thank you. U.S. President Donald Trump has arrived in Scotland just a short time ago with a message for Europe.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I'd say two things to Europe, stop the windmills. You're ruining your countries. I really mean it. It's so sad.
You fly over and you see these windmills all over the place ruining your beautiful fields and valleys and killing your birds on immigration. You
better get your act together. You're not going to have Europe anymore.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Trump is on a five-day visit to his mother's home country. He will dedicate a new golf course to her. He will also meet with the British prime
minister, Keir Starmer, and he says, speak trade with European Commission president, Ursula von der Leyen. Security extremely tight with protests
expected.
[18:10:00]
Chief U.S. National Affairs Correspondent Jeff Zeleny is in Edinburgh. Is this primarily a personal trip or a business trip for the president?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF U.S. NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it is a mix of both. Jim, there is no doubt, but golf, of course, is the primary
reason that he is in Scotland at this moment. But there are some business meetings being added along the way.
But as you played there, the president had a blunt message for Scotland and in fact all of Europe. And there may be a blunt message back to the
president. We will see tomorrow if protests here in Edinburgh and in other places across Scotland materialized. But already, the president is being
met with some pretty harsh words in terms of newspaper tabloid coverage and the like.
But we spent some time talking to citizens here today about their view of the U.S. president coming to Scotland. Here's a sampling of what they told
CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Welcome to Scotland, Donald. So, glad to have your two amazing golf courses. I've played Turberry. I love to play the one up in
mini. Please invite me. Welcome to Scotland. Great to have you here. I go over the states in San Antonio next April. So, as we play golf, if you ever
in San Antonio, come and join us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I absolutely loathe President Trump and I wish he wasn't at Turnberry or in Aberdeen. And I think it's costing the country a
fortune. And I don't care whether eventually some of it'll come back to us or not. I think it's a shocking amount of work for everyone to do just for
him to come and play golf. And that's me. I think good for the protests because I think he has to realize that people in Scotland do not like him
and think he's a complete pain in the hooky.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZELENY: So, President Trump spoke very fondly of Scotland, you know, his mother's ancestral homeland. She left Scotland at age 18 to go to the
United States. But it's less clear that the people of Scotland will speak as fondly about the president, as you heard right there.
But, Jim, the U.S. president will be spending the weekends, as he often does in the United States, and that is playing golf on his own golf
courses. He'll just be doing it here in Scotland, flying some 3,500 miles or so from Washington to do so, trying to escape the controversies and
perhaps the heat as well of Washington. We'll see how likely that is.
At least on the controversy front, he was already over here talking about the Jeffrey Epstein matter, but it is the matters of trade that certainly
are a significant meeting onto Sunday with the president of the European commission, as you mentioned, as well as that meeting on Monday with the
British prime minister. Of course, trade talks looming over this, but as well as Gaza, the humanitarian crisis deepening. The U.S. has not been
nearly as outspoken as European leaders have been. We will see if that changes after Prime Minister Starmer meets with President Trump on Monday.
But then he is going up to that new golf course named after his mother. He'll be doing a dedication there on Tuesday. So, not scheduled to return
back to Washington until Tuesday evening. So, quite a long international trip for a U.S. president who famously does not like to travel. Jim.
SCIUTTO: Jeff Zeleny in Edinburgh, thanks so much. Well, Thailand has now declared martial law in two provinces along its border with Cambodia.
It is the latest escalation in the ongoing conflict between the two countries. Both sides exchanging fire on Friday. At least 17 people have
been killed so far, more than 135,000 civilians have fled the fighting. Kristie Lu Stout has more on the latest developments there.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Thai artillery fire pounds Cambodian positions on the second day of deadly conflict between two
Southeast Asian neighbors. Their 500-mile shared border now a conflict zone. The flare up has already claimed several lives, displacing over
100,000 people in Thailand, according to its Ministry of Interior, and thousands more in Cambodia, AP reported, citing an official where families
are sheltering on the grounds of temples.
VENG CHIN, 74-YEAR-OLD CAMBODIAN RESIDENT (through translator): I was so scared, shaking so much, I didn't bring anything with me, and then my son
tried to pull my child's hand up onto the tractor.
STOUT (voice-over): The roots of the conflict go back to the colonial era when many of Asia's borders were drawn by European powers, including the
areas of religious and archeological significance.
THITINAN PONGSUDHIRAK, CHULALONGORN UNIVERSITY: Both sides, Cambodians and Thais, feel resentful of history. Thais think that the French took some
land from Thailand, gave to Cambodia. Cambodians think that this is their civilization from a long, long time ago.
[18:15:00]
STOUT (voice-over): In Thailand's Surren Province, evacuees shelter in a university a hospital in the area abandoned after being bombed.
KUMMOON SRIPRAHOM, 63-YEAR-OLD THAI RESIDENT (through translator): I don't want this war to happen. I don't want fighting.
STOUT (voice-over): But the violence continues. Cambodia accuses Thailand of using banned cluster munitions. CNN has contacted the Thai military for
comment. On Friday, the Thai Army released this footage showing its drones destroying Cambodian ammunition stocks. CNN cannot verify the video, which
purports to show jungle positions destroyed, Washington has called for restraint.
TOMMY PIGOTT, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT, PRINCIPAL DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: The United States urges an immediate cessation of hostilities, protection of
civilians, and a peaceful resolution of the conflict.
STOUT (voice-over): But Beijing is watching too as the border battles threaten to develop into something bigger.
FU CONG, CHINA'S PERMANENT REPRESENTATIVE TO UNITED STATES: And as far as China is concerned, we are going. We are mediating between the two sides,
and we do hope that the situation can stabilize as soon as possible.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Our thanks to Kristie Lu Stout. Joining me now, CNN military analyst, retired U.S. Navy Captain Carl Schuster. Good to have you.
CARL SCHUSTER, FORMER DIRECTOR OF OPERATIONS, U.S. PACIFIC COMMAND'S JOINT INTELLIGENCE CENTER, U.S. NAVY CAPTAIN (RET.) AND MILITARY ANALYST: Well,
thank you, Mr. Sciutto. I appreciate it. It's a pleasure being here.
SCIUTTO: So, the roots of this, that the borders are artificially drawn, I mean, you could say that about really the borders of any country in the
world, right? I mean, history, culture, and there's a lot of history here. I mean, do you see a way to resolving this conflict short of extending the
fighting?
SCHUSTER: Not in the permanent sense. Because however you redraw the border, one or both countries is going to be unhappy. And there's not a lot
of -- since national pride is involved, not a lot of, shall we say, political leeway to compromise.
This is the third time they've started fighting in that area over this issue since the 1990s. One of my first duties when I arrived in Hawaii many
years ago was to support the contingent. That we sent to Bangkok and another one we sent to Phnom Penh to try and work out, you know, how do we
-- who's -- what's involved in it, who's doing what, and how do we get them to, you know, reach a ceasefire?
And we had a similar thing happening around 2003 and there was some recent fighting earlier this year. Also, there's been a couple of U.N. territorial
rulings back in 2008, was the latest one. Prior to that was one in, I think, 1962. Thailand wasn't happy with either of those because it was
ruled in Cambodia's favor.
I think the best we can do is get the fighting to tone down and to get to some kind of agreement, a modus vivendi, if you will, for the diplomatic
equivalent to agree to disagree and keep the military forces away.
What triggered this is Cambodia -- and they feel justified in doing this. They tend to lay mines and booby traps along what they believe to be the
border of their country. And unfortunately, the border is not all that clearly delineated, and it's never been firmly agreed to. So, Thai patrols
often stumble into these newly laid minefields, and that triggers a new round of fighting.
SCIUTTO: Yes. You told CNN that while Thailand has the numerical and perhaps qualitative military advantage, Cambodia has the advantage of the
land along that disputed border. Can you explain why?
SCHUSTER: Yes, sir. The ground there is dense. It's also uneven. And the higher levels -- if you will, the higher elevations are on the Cambodian
side of the border. So, you could argue the terrain favors Cambodia. The other issue is too is Cambodia has been laying mines and booby traps there
for years. So, once you get past the disputed area and the deeper you go into Cambodia, the more dangerous and the more common those barriers are.
As a result, I think Thailand's going to rely on firepower, long-range firepower, drones, and air power to weaken the Cambodian military to win
their point. I don't see a major invasion of Cambodian territory coming.
SCIUTTO: How significant is China's backing of Cambodia militarily?
SCHUSTER: I think -- well, they've provided them mostly with small arms and some light weapons. They have not initiated any kind of major military
modernization program. The previous leader of Cambodia in 2022, Hun Sen, the father of the current prime minister of Cambodia, ordered that the
American provided weapons be put in storage or destroyed.
[18:20:00]
And the dilemma that China faces is they're trying to wean Thailand away from the United States. And so, if they make a big play or a big move to
reinforce Cambodia's military, that undermines their effort to woo Thailand.
SCIUTTO: Right.
SCHUSTER: And so, they have to walk a tight rope. They're going to probably provide monetary assistance in the background and they want this conflict
to end as quickly as possible.
SCIUTTO: Carl Schuster, thanks so much for walking us through it.
SCHUSTER: Thank you, sir. Thanks for having me.
SCIUTTO: Coming up on "The Brief," Europe's largest automaker revealing the price of U.S. tariffs. Exactly how much they cost the company, what that
means for consumers coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: On Wall Street, the S&P setting an all-time high for the fifth time this week. The NASDAQ also ended the week at a new record. Apple,
Alphabet, and Microsoft all saw gains. Shares of Intel, however, dropped more than 8 percent after reporting a wider quarterly loss. The chip maker
also said it had halted or scrapped new factory projects in the U.S. and Europe. Paramount Global, parent of CBS and Paramount Pictures, down more
than 1 percent after U.S. regulators approved its merger with Skydance Media.
Europe's largest automaker, Volkswagen, says that U.S. tariffs cost the company $1.5 billion in the first half of this year. The German auto giant
is now lowering its full year profit forecast. General Motors said on Tuesday it took a $1.1 billion hit from tariffs in the second quarter
alone. America's largest carmaker warns tariffs could cost the company up to $5 billion by the end of the year.
Justin Wolfers is a professor of economics and Public Policy at the University of Michigan. Justin, good to have you back.
JUSTIN WOLFERS, PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS AND PUBLIC POLICY, UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN: A pleasure.
SCIUTTO: So, you now see GM announcing the numbers, right, here, how much tariffs eaten to their bottom line. Is this for GM and for other U.S.
automakers a lasting impact. Do you see a lasting impact here, as long as these tariffs are in place?
WOLFERS: So, really what this is a metaphor for not just the auto industry, but for U.S. businesses more broadly. So, Ford and GM import a lot of goods
in order to make cars, they import steel, for instance, to make the frames.
[18:25:00]
We've got a lot of very high tariffs on steel, aluminum, copper, difficulties obtaining rare earth minerals, and also country specific
tariffs including on Canada. The thing is, the way these tariffs work is, say a shipment of steel comes in for General Motors. They have to go to the
port to pick it up. And in order to get it from the port, it's General Motors that pays that tariff.
The Trump administration promised us that foreign countries would pay those tariffs. If that were the case, foreign countries would cut the price that
they would be offering to make up for the fact that the American companies have to pay higher tariffs.
We've seen a slew of recent data come through recently, which have said they've not done that at all. So, all of the cost is being borne by
Americans. At the moment, it's being borne by the American companies. What will probably happen over the next few months is those American companies
will raise their prices once they get a bit of clarity that this is the ongoing situation. And so, then it will go from mainly affecting American
companies to affecting American consumers instead.
SCIUTTO: The tradeoff that Trump has advertised is that short-term pain for, he says, the longer-term gain of returning manufacturing or at least
some manufacturing to the U.S. Is there any evidence that's happening?
WOLFERS: No manufacturing is still shedding jobs. Look, the problem here is twofold. One, the way -- the first page of the tariff handbook says, if you
want to maintain the competitiveness of your companies, don't put tariffs on the inputs into their production. But you notice, Trump has imposed
tariffs on aluminum and steel and copper, which are all inputs.
So, what that means is if you're going to build a car in the United States, you have to pay a 50 percent surcharge in the price of those inputs,
whereas your foreign competitors do not. It actually puts American companies at a disadvantage. That's problem one.
Problem two, in theory, if you had a well-designed tariff, you could raise the profitability of producing in America, and that would lead companies to
want to invest in new factories. The problem is, I'm only going to invest in a new factory if you're telling me something about my profitability over
the next few decades. It's a very long run decision.
But right now, the tariff rate that's announced on Monday is no longer in effect on Tuesday, and I don't know what's still going to be there on
Wednesday. So, Trump is changing the tariffs that you and I are paying, but what is not changing is the important thing to -- that would stimulate that
investment, which would be people's expectations of tariffs in 10- or 20- years' time. Because that's not moving. We're getting all the costs of tariffs, none of the benefits.
SCIUTTO: The top line economic numbers for the U.S. remains strong. And I'm not just talking about the financial markets, stock markets which are way
up, but job growth still seems to be healthy. Haven't seen a major hit to GDP growth, although the first quarter there was definitely some
contraction there. Do you still believe that there is a lag effect here in seeing the broader effects of terrorists on the economy?
WOLFERS: Yes, and I think so in several dimensions. So, the first one is, most of Trump's tariffs only went on in April. It takes a month to get
goods, say from China to the U.S. So, it takes them from April to May, a week or two to get them through customs, another week or two to throw them
on the back of a truck and get them in the store room. And then it turns out that that store room is already pretty full because a lot of companies
stocked up ahead of the tariffs. And so, those goods are only just starting to hit U.S. shelves right now. That's point one.
Point two, normally, if you tell a company, I'm going to raise your costs, and that's going to occur in a persistent way, they'll adjust their prices
straight away. But if you tell them, I'm going to raise your costs a bit, it might go up or down from day to day or week to week, what they try and
do is change -- not change their prices too often. And these tariffs have been on again off again, on again off again, and I think a lot of
businesses are holding back on adjusting their prices until they really find out what's going to be happening with tariffs over the medium run,
SCIUTTO: And then they can make medium to long-term plans. Justin Wolfers, appreciate you coming back.
WOLFERS: A pleasure.
SCIUTTO: Serious, frank, and detailed. Iran holds nuclear talks with European nations, their first face-to-face meetings since Israel and the
U.S. struck Iranian nuclear sites in June.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:30:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." I'm Jim Sciutto. Here are more international headlines we're watching today.
Palestinian authorities say at least 122 people have died of hunger in Gaza since the start of the Israel-Hamas war. Humanitarian groups accuse Israel
of blocking aid from entering Gaza. Israel pushes back, accusing Hamas of engineering food shortages. Adding, it will soon allow countries to airdrop
aid into Gaza. NGOs say such airdrops can be prohibitively expensive and sometimes deadly.
U.S. President Donald Trump is in Scotland on a five-day visit. The visit includes stops at his two golf resorts. He will also meet with the British
prime minister, Keir Starmer, and the European commission president, Ursula von der Leyen. President Trump reiterated there is, in his view, a 50/50
chance of reaching a trade deal with the European Union. He says, if it does happen, it would be the biggest trade deal of them all. He has said
that about a few trade deals lately.
In Scotland today, the president also said that now is not the time to be talking about pardons for Ghislaine Maxwell, although he keeps talking
about pardons. The attorney for Jeffrey Epstein's convicted accomplice and former girlfriend says she answers, quote, "every single question during
your two-day meeting with the president's deputy attorney general, Todd Blanche," who used to be his personal attorney, he added that Maxwell was
asked about 100 different people and did not hold anything back. So, why are they meeting?
For the first time since the U.S. and Israel struck Iranian nuclear facilities last month, Iran held nuclear talks with Britain, France, and
Germany. The delegations met at the Iranian Consulate in Istanbul for several hours on Friday. Discussions described as serious, frank, and
detailed. Iran insists its position on a key issue, remains unchanged. It will not stop enriching uranium on its soil. However, it also indicated it
would continue the talks. The U.N. nuclear watchdog is hopeful they will provide an opening to resuming inspections of Iranian nuclear facilities.
My guest, Trita Parsi, is the Executive Vice President at the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft, also the author of the book, "Losing
an Enemy: Obama, Iran, and The Triumph of Diplomacy." Trita, good to have you back. Are these talks going to go anywhere?
[18:35:00]
TRITA PARSI, EXECUTIVE VP, THE QUINCY INSTITUTE FOR RESPONSIBLE STATECRAFT AND AUTHOR, "LOSING AN ENEMY": Good to be with you. Well, it's going to be
extremely difficult. The issue here is that the only leverage the Europeans have, and the only reason why Iranians are frankly talking to them right
now, is because they have the ability of triggering a mechanism called SNAP Act at the U.N., which would cause all of the previous U.N. sanctions that
were imposed on Iran, that were lifted as part of the Iran nuclear deal would be reimposing, all of them, and Russia and China will not be able to
veto that trigger.
And the Iranians obviously don't want that. So, now, the question is can they come to some sort of an agreement that most likely will extend the
deadline of the SNAP Act, will not undo it, but will just give all sides a little bit more time in return for some greater openness from the Iranian's
side in -- with the IAEA, which is very complicated at this point, mindful of the fact that the United States has bombed those facilities and the IAEA
had to pull out because of the safety of their own inspectors.
SCIUTTO: So, what about the other main sticking point here, and that is Iran maintaining enrichment on its soil, which Iran says is a red line for
it, it wants to maintain it, and for the U.S. and Israel, it's a red line in the other direction? They won't allow it. What is the potential, if any,
for reconciling those two positions?
PARSI: Well, first of all, I don't think the talks with the Europeans is going to determine that because I think it's, at this point, really focused
on the SNAP Act issue. I don't think the United States wants the Europeans to negotiate on their behalf when it comes to those other issues that you
mentioned such as enrichment.
I also want to add though, I do not think that Iranians are going to back off from a very long-standing position that all the way goes back to the
time of the Shah, which is that they will not give up what they consider to be their rights to enrich uranium for peaceful purposes. The fact that the
facilities have been bombed actually is only strengthening that determination because the belief in Tehran is if they cave on enrichment,
the next demand is going to be on the ballistic missile. If they cave on that issue, there will be something else. And eventually, Iran will have
zero deterrence, no capacity of defending itself in a neighborhood in which Israel is by and large acting with impunity.
SCIUTTO: I just wonder what Iran's leverage is then? Because Israel and the U.S. proved they could attack Iran virtually with impunity. The air defense
has taken down and they struck many of the sites, not destroy them, but clearly damaged them significantly. And you have the additional pressure of
the SNAP Act sanctions. So, what is Iran's leverage here?
PARSI: Well, first of all, I don't think the Israelis struck with impunity because of the missile that the Iranians struck at Israel we're also quite
successful. And more importantly, the Israelis were running out of anti- missile interceptors. We just saw statistics coming out showing that the United States expanded 14 percent of its stockpile of Shahed (ph) missiles,
and it will take the United States three to five years to rebuild those.
The Iranians can build missiles, acquire missiles faster than the Israelis, and the United States can build anti-missile interceptors. That doesn't
mean that the balance is in Iran's favor, but it does mean that it was different from when Israel is bombing refugees in tents. This actually had
a cost for the Israelis.
But when it comes to leverage, in addition to this is, of course, that we still don't know where the Iranian stockpile is. 60 percent enriched
uranium, 500, 600 kilos, if I'm not mistaken, enough to be able to build several bombs. Are those still in the mountains? Did the Iranians take them
out before? Do they take out a portion of them before the United States bombed it? Have the Iranian decision not to build the bomb actually changed
as a result of Iran itself getting attacked? We don't know those different things. We don't know the answers to those questions. And to some extent,
some of those elements do provide Iranians with leverage.
SCIUTTO: So, what is the most likely next step in your view? Is it more talks or is it more military action? I mean, Israel has said it reserves
the right to strike again if it finds more targets there. President Trump has said the same.
PARSI: The Israelis are very likely going to strike Iran again, perhaps as early as end of August. It is not because they're finding more targets,
it's because the Israelis are trying to establish air dominance over the Iranians so that they can strike Iran with impunity, without the
involvement of the United States in the same manner that they have been able to do against Syria, against Lebanon for quite some time.
The Iranians are going to do everything they can to make sure that they dispel the Israelis from the notion that that is achievable. And as a
result, the next one, which is very likely in my estimation, is going to be much, much more ferocious than this last one was, probably longer, and I
think Iranians are not going to show any restraint this time around. Whereas in the previous one, they actually did not because of a desire for
restraint, but because they were playing the long game, they felt that the war was going to go on for much longer.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Trita Parsi, good to speak again. Thank you.
PARSI: Thank you.
[18:40:00]
SCIUTTO: Coming up, we're going to show you what conditions are like inside Alligator Alcatraz, as Trump has called it, the South Florida detention
site, as officials prepare for a surge of immigration arrests.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Turning now to the continuing U.S. immigration crackdown. ICE has now deported some 150,000 people since Donald Trump took office, this
according to the Department of Homeland Security. At that rate, the Trump administration will fall well short of the president's goal of 1 million
deportations in a year.
ICE is under intense pressure to ramp up enforcement. The government funded multimillion dollar campaigns for self-deportation, offering financial
incentives. Deportation flights have now begun from the South Florida detention camp known by Trump as Alligator Alcatraz. A state official says
up to 100 people held there have been removed from the U.S. now. The plan is to open up spots for what he says will be a surge of immigration
arrests. Governor Ron DeSantis defended the speed of those deportations.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): It was never intended to be something where people are just held and we just kind of twiddle our thumbs. The whole
purpose is to make this be a place that can facilitate increased frequency and numbers of deportations of illegal aliens.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: It's unclear where the flights went and how many more will be in operation. CNN has spoken to some detainees at Alligator Alcatraz, and they
paint a grim picture of conditions there. Our Priscilla Alvarez explains what it's really like on the inside.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JUAN PALMA MARTINEZ, ALLIGATOR ALCATRAZ DETAINEE (through translator): This is sad, sad, hopeless. It's a type of torture.
PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These are the stories of migrants held at Alligator Alcatraz, a new detention facility deep in the
Florida Everglades.
Using a plan of the site shown during President Trump's visit and photos from media tours and social media, CNN created a 3D model to take you
inside the site, where hundreds of immigrant detainees are being held.
Here are the giant tents where people report being crammed into cells made of chain-link fence, packed with bunk beds.
CNN spoke with eight detainees to hear firsthand accounts of what conditions are like on the inside. Some asked not to be named for fear of
retribution.
[18:45:00]
GONZALO ALMANZA VALDES, ALLIGATOR ALCATRAZ DETAINEE: Because of the way that we have been treated, it has been a very terrible experience.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): Gonzalo Almanza Valdes was detained by ICE when he showed up for a meeting with his probation officer.
VALDES: Thirty-two people per cell or per cage, really, because it's a cage. It's a metal cage strapped in with zip ties.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): Three open toilets are shared by dozens of men, who say there's no running water or sewage system. Roger Moreno, who has lived
in the U.S. for more than 30 years, told CNN the rain makes it worse.
ROGER MORENO, ALLIGATOR ALCATRAZ DETAINEE (through translator): The toilets, when it rains, they overflow and the cells we're in fill up with
sewage.
VALDES: Every time it does rain and storm, the toilets clog up.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): Detainees told CNN the lights are kept on 24 hours a day.
VALDES: We can't see. I have to personally put a rag on top of my head to at least try to take a nap because the lights are so bright. There's 24 LED
lights in the roof and it's like shining bright.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): Juan Palma Martinez has lived in the U.S. for more than 20 years and was also picked up by ICE at a routine meeting with his
probation officer.
JUAN PALMA MARTINEZ, ALLIGATOR ALCATRAZ DETAINEE (through translator): I no longer know when it's daytime or when it's nighttime. I don't sleep. It's
affecting me mentally and physically.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): The tents aren't sealed. You can see cracks in this image. And at the height of the hot Florida summer, that means the insects
are relentless.
MORENO (through translator): Yesterday, the air-conditioning went out. We had the whole morning without air-conditioning. Lots of mosquitoes came in
because they get in from all sides.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): Multiple detainees said they don't get enough food, though they're served three meals a day and that water is limited.
VALDES: They scan our bracelets. We go into the food hall. The food is very terrible here. Very, very, very small portions People are having a hard
time living here because like they're starving. It's probably like a quarter cup of rice.
MARTINEZ (through translator): We've eaten as late as 10:00 at night. The food at night is cold, too. There's never a hot meal.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): Showers are located in a separate tent. And opportunities to shower there are scarce, according to the detainees we
spoke with.
VALDES: All the showers are connected to the same water source. There's barely any water pressure. So, we have to, like, literally put ourselves on
the wall right next to the water drainage so like we can at least get hit with water.
MARTINEZ (through translator): They follow you when you're walking to the shower with your hands on your head, as if you were a prisoner. The water
is very hot, very hot. They don't give you enough time. Mosquitoes are biting you in the shower. There are more mosquitoes than water.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): The only line to the outside world are phones set up in the cells.
VALDES: Nobody here has been able to see a loved one. Nobody has been able to see a lawyer here. Nobody. And it sucks. It sucks. There's no like
physical contact with the outside world other than these phone calls. It's not really more about me. It's about not being able to see my son. He's
six. He's about to turn seven in November. And I don't even know if I'm going to be able to see him in his birthday.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): Republican and democratic lawmakers recently toured the facility. According to one of them, they were not permitted to speak to
the detainees. Then-state senator Blaise Ingoglia, a Republican, said the facility is in good order.
STATE SEN. BLAISE INGOGLIA (R-FL): It's actually a very well- run facility. The idea that the detainees are in there and they're in squalid conditions
is just not accurate.
ALVAREZ (voice-over): But most distressing for detainees, they say, was that in multiple cases, they haven't appeared in any state or federal
detention system since they were arrested. That means families have been unable to track them.
VALDES: We're in the middle of the Everglades with constant reminder that we're locked up in a cage and anything can happen. A hurricane can hit us
and we can all die and nobody would know.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Priscilla Alvarez for bringing us that story. Priscilla Alvarez reporting there. Well, the countdown is on to Sunday's Women's Euro final.
England versus Spain. Who will lift the trophy? Our preview after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:50:00]
SCIUTTO: Football fans around the world gearing up for the Women's Euro Final this weekend. Defending Champions England, they're going to face
Spain, currently hoping for a repeat of their victory over England in the 2023 World Cup Final.
Asli Pelit, staff writer at The Athletic covering women's soccer joins us now. So, what's this match going to be like? Is it going to be a good one?
ASLI PELIT, STAFF WRITER, THE ATHLETIC: It's definitely going to be electric. And we know that England -- we're still talking about how England
made it to the final, and I'm sure many fans will agree with me, it was a challenge for them to make it. It was always this last-minute, you know,
effort to make it there and beat their opponents.
But coming to the tournament, they were already struggling and there was a lot of questions around if England was going to make it to Euros. And then,
on Sunday, they're going to face world champion, someone that knows them really well, studied that team so to the detail, and they're there in
Switzerland to bring a Euro trophy home to Spain.
They're arguably the best technical side in the world. This is a team that lives for a possession, and I think they have a positional dominance over
the other -- you know, their opponent, England. And their Ballon d'Or winners, Aitana Bonmati and Alexia Putellasm really has shown us how to do
the jogo bonito, the beautiful game multiple times throughout the tournament.
They're confident. However, England has a chance, and I think that's what makes this, you know, finals so exciting. If England can learn from Germany
and complete what Germany was trying to do, which is actually bringing their secret weapons, Chloe Kelly and Michelle Agyemang earlier to the game
and beat Spain's defense and like sort of, you know, really push the back line, I think they have a chance to, you know, bring what they can, they're
capable of to -- and like push Spain to the corner. But I still think Spain has a bigger chance.
SCIUTTO: So, which players are you going to be watching most closely?
PELIT: Well, like I said, I think Alexia and Aitana is always beautiful to watch. We have seen on the England side Alessia Russo is great also, Kelly
and Agyemang. On Spain, I love the goalkeeper. I think Cata Coll is an incredible goalkeeper now that the German goalkeeper, it cannot be with us
anymore. (INAUDIBLE) like your place here at NWSL, as you know, for Gotham FC.
I think this is going to be forwards, you know, struggle to see -- we're going to see who can make that difference on the frontline, but also
midfielders like, I would say, definitely Spain's midfield is so good. I wouldn't like miss them out. And Esther, Spain secret weapon is definitely
worth watching. She did even a bicycle kick in the semifinal.
SCIUTTO: Well, we should have you back next week. See how it all goes. Asli Pelit, from The Athletic, thanks so much for joining.
PELIT: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: The premier event for comics, movies, television, all things pop culture underway. We're talking about Comic-Con, of course, in San Diego,
California this year. Over the next few days, fans will dress up as their favorite characters and attend panels with the creators and actors of
movies, TV, and of course comics. There are also activities for those who don't have a ticket, like a pop-up Labubu store, and a screening of the
1989 Batman that will feature a 50-piece orchestra.
[18:55:00]
On Thursday night, the creators of "South Park" were part of a panel there. Trey Parker and Matt Stone discussed the season 27 premier, which skewered
U.S. President Donald Trump. When asked about the White House reaction, Parker sarcastically said, we're terribly sorry. Comic-Con last through
Sunday.
Thanks so much for your company. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. I hope you have a good weekend. You've been watching "The Brief." Please do stay with
CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:00:00]
END
