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The Brief with Jim Sciutto
CNN International: FBI Releases of "Person of Interest" in Kirk Murder; Bipartisan Calls to End Political Violence; Netanyahu Signs West Bank Settlement Expansion Plan; The Hunt of Charlie Kirk's Killer; Brazil's Top Court Convicts Bolsonaro for Coup Plot; South Korean Workers on Way Back Home. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired September 11, 2025 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. And you're watching
"The Brief."
Just ahead this hour, the FBI releases photos of a person of interest in the shooting of Charlie Kirk. They are offering a $100,000 reward for
information leading to his arrest. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu vows there will not be a Palestinian State, saying, quote, "This
place is ours." And Brazil's Supreme Court finds former President Jair Bolsonaro guilty of an attempted coup.
In this country today, after a shocking and public act of political violence, we begin with the ongoing Manhunt for the killer of the
conservative activist Charlie Kirk. The FBI are offering, as I said, a $100,000 reward for information leading to the shooter's arrest. They have
released these photos of someone they're calling a person of interest. You see there, wearing sunglasses and a hat.
Hours ago, authorities delayed a news conference saying there were, quote, "rapid developments" in the case. Not clear yet what those are. All this
after Kirk's very public murder on Wednesday. He was speaking at Utah Valley University when he was shot by a gunman some 200 yards away, it's
estimated. His wife and children, we learned today, were nearby.
Authorities say the shooter fled into a neighborhood around the campus. They believe they have found the rifle used in the attack as well as
ammunition discarded in a wooded area nearby. Kirk was known for speaking on college campuses, engaging with students directly in debate. U.S.
President Donald Trump credited Kirk's outreach with helping him win a second term, saying he will award Kirk a posthumous Medal of Freedom.
Earlier, the president said he was more concerned for the country than his own personal safety.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: We have a great country. We have a radical left group of lunatics out there, just absolute lunatics, and we're going
to get that problem solved. I'm only concerned for the country. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, how do you want to see your supporters respond to this? Charlie Kirk was a big advocate of nonviolence and free
speech on campus. How do you want your supporters to respond to this?
TRUMP: I think that way. He was. He was an advocate of nonviolence. That's the way I'd like to see people respond.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: It's the second time the president has blamed a radical left. Ed Lavandera joins us now from Orem, Utah. As you're aware, Ed, police delayed
that press conference they planned this afternoon, saying there were rapid developments. Do we have any idea what those developments are?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we do not have any indication what is going on there behind the scenes as this
investigation continues to play out. So, we had thought that there might be something imminently coming out on this, but it has now been several hours
since authorities postponed that press conference, with that statement, that rapidly changing developments, but we have not gotten any indication
as to what exactly that might be.
We have seen, and we are in this neighborhood, Jim, that is essentially on a ridge overlooking the Utah Valley University campus, and it's back in
this area just to the left here where the gunman apparently was on a rooftop and had a vantage point to shoot at Charlie Kirk. And investigators
have focused intensely on this area because this could very well have been the route through which he escaped the shooting scene.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAVANDERA (voice-over): More than 24 hours after Charlie Kirk was killed on a Utah college campus, the manhunt continues. Investigators have focused
intensely on this Orem, Utah neighborhood next to the Utah Valley University campus.
In the chaotic moments after the shooting, dispatchers had a description of the possible gunman.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wearing all black, black long gun, black tactical helmet, a black mask, possibly wearing a tactical vest and jeans.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): We met an electrician working near the university who says someone matching that description approached a co-worker at this
job site.
DYLAN HOPE, CO-WORKER OF EYEWITNESS: He had black sunglasses, he had a black COVID mask, he had a black trench coat, black cargo pants. And he was
wearing a small backpack and he also had long, greasy black hair. The guy said someone's been shot.
[18:05:00]
LAVANDERA: Looking back on it, did that person think that was the shooter now?
HOPE: The guy was already trying to leave. And so -- we were then shown a picture by the sheriff at the time and the excavator said that it matched.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): The FBI also released images of a person of interest and posted up to a $100,000 reward for information leading to an
arrest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there somebody on the roof right there?
LAVANDERA (voice-over): And say they have what they call good video of the suspect.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That individual appears to be of college age.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): That video has not yet been released. Investigators say they have also located the weapon they believe was used
in the shooting.
ROBERT BOHLS, SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE, FBI'S SALT LAKE CITY FIELD OFFICE: That rifle was recovered in a wooded area where the shooter had fled. It is
a high-powered bolt-action rifle.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): According to sources with knowledge of the investigation, the rifle was scrawled with phrases related to cultural
references.
BOHLS: Investigators have also collected footwear impression, a palm print. and forearm imprints for analysis.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): And law enforcement officials say they have more details about the shooter's movements on Wednesday.
BEAU MASON, COMMISSIONER, UTAH DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY: Starting at 11.52 a.m., the subject arrived on campus through the stairwells, up to the
roof, across the roof to a shooting location.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): Almost 30 minutes later, at 12.20 p.m. Mountain Time, just as Kirk began to answer a question about gun violence, he was
shot in the neck.
CHARLIE KIRK, POLITICAL ACTIVIST: Do you know how many mass shooters there have been in America over the last 10 years?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Counting or not counting gang violence.
KIRK: Great.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): Shot from a distance of about 150 yards, according to CNN estimates. And law enforcement officials say they tracked the
gunman's movements across the roof.
MASON: He moved to the other side of the building, jumped off of the building and fled off of the campus and into a neighborhood.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAVANDERA (on camera): So, Jim, to recap here, as we've walked you through all of the developments that we've been able to learn about today, really
the key here is that we are now well more than 24 hours into this manhunt and there is still no indication that authorities are any closer to
tracking down where this suspect and shooter might be, despite the leads that we've been able to learn about today. Jim.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Still at least no public indication. Ed Lavandera on the scene for us there. Thanks so much.
Joining me now is Democratic Congressman from California, Ami Bera. Congressman, thanks so much for taking the time.
REP. AMI BERA (D-CA): Jim, thanks for having me on.
SCIUTTO: I want to begin by asking you just a big picture question. How does our country get to a better place here to avoid continuing violence,
poisoning the political discourse? This is sadly not the first time we've seen this.
BERA: I mean, I would hope that we would take this tragedy. You know, Charlie Kirk was a young man in the prime of his life with a young family
and obviously a very influential figure in America. And we should all mourn that and we should all, you know, think about, you know, maybe his legacy
is the shock of this assassination. And can we find a better way to work together?
I mean, I can only control myself. I will try to find civility. I will try to, you know, look for ways to work with my colleagues. I'm friends with a
lot of Republicans. This is not about Democrats or Republicans. It's got to be about what kind of country do we want to live in?
SCIUTTO: Who do you see now among the nation's politicians, Democrat or Republican, offering the words and the leadership that this country needs
right now?
BERA: Yes. You know, I will tell you, I'm disappointed that President Trump didn't seize this moment. I'd, you know, encourage the president to
take the -- he's got the biggest bully pulpit in the country and, you know, take it as a moment to tone down the rhetoric, talk to folks, you know, on
the far-right. You know, we should talk to folks on the far-left and say, you know, this isn't about politics. This isn't about the country we want
to live in. We should debate ideas. Our democracy is about heated debate and so forth. But that's up to the voters. That's what the ballot box is
for. We shouldn't solve our differences through violence.
And again, you know, I did not know Charlie Kirk yet -- met him once. I sat behind him at President Trump's inauguration. But, you know, I disagreed
with his political ideas. But you never solve anything this way.
SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this, and I just wonder, do you find yourself fearing for your own safety at public events now? Does it make you
reconsider where and when and how, right? You appear in public. You take questions in public.
[18:10:00]
BERA: Absolutely. I mean, all of us, going back to January 6th coming forward, even going back to the mass shooting at the baseball practice of
the Republicans, you know, we've all been cautious. All of this -- you know, the Sacramento County sheriff will come out and when we do our town
halls or big public events that are open, we always have law enforcement there.
But there's no way to protect against someone who is dead set on committing violence. That hinders our ability as elected leaders to meet with the
folks that we work for, the folks that we serve. And I don't think that's the country that we want to want to live in.
I think this is going to put a chill on, you know, that dialogue as well. And, you know, we all get death threats. We all take precautions. You know,
I'm glad that Speaker Johnson, Leader Jeffries are taking a look at the level of security for members of Congress. But, you know, that isn't the
country that we want as Americans. It's not the world that we want to live in.
SCIUTTO: No, it isn't. I do want to ask you about two more topics. One is the impending budget fight. Looking ahead, I wonder, do you believe that
Democrats should allow the government to shut down rather than, in effect, supply the votes to continue to pass the GOP's agenda?
BERA: No, I don't think a government shutdown is ever good for anyone. It hurts working men and women, shuts down programs. It is a failure of
Congress to do its job. Now, I clearly understand that there's a lot of mistrust. We've seen the rescissions package. We've seen what Russ Vought,
OMB have been doing.
I think we're going to ask for some things. And, you know, I, as a doctor, I've spent most of my career working on expanding access to health care.
What I would like to see is, you know, some of the ACA subsidies that have allowed so many Americans to get health care coverage. That is probably my
red line. It's like, give us that.
I've talked to Republicans. They recognize, you know, it helps their constituents. Put that in there, extend their subsidies. I'd like it to be
indefinite, but, you know, at least for a year or two. And, you know, that might get me there. You know, the president's cutting some law enforcement
funding, COPS funding. You know, let's put that back in there for, you know, community-oriented policing.
So, there's things that we're going to ask for and, you know, that should not be controversial. I hope we get them.
SCIUTTO: Is there a minimum price that you believe Democrats should hold to?
BERA: I mean, we are going to fight for health care. So, I think we want to see those ACA subsidies continued because millions of Americans will
lose health care coverage and then everyone else, even if you have good private insurance, you'll probably see a 20 percent increase. I don't think
that's good. I think that's a fair negotiating point.
We would also want some guarantees that if we do pass a continuing resolution that President Trump will actually adhere to that, that he won't
just turn it over to Russ Vought and they'll say, well, now we're going to do whatever we want anyway. So, we don't really care what you pass. That is
that isn't --
SCIUTTO: On another topic, if I can, before we go. As you know, Russian drones, multiple Russian drones crossed into Polish airspace yesterday, and
it required scrambling NATO jets. That then shot them down. President Trump was asked about it a short time ago, and he said, well, it could have been
a mistake. And it's not clear that he is going to take any action at this point. And as you know, he's already repeatedly delayed and broken through
his own deadlines to impose new sanctions on Russia for expanding its war. What's your reaction to that? And how do you think Putin reacts?
BERA: I mean, I think Putin is emboldened if there's no proportional response. I think this is exactly -- Poland's a NATO country. You know,
their airspace was encroached upon, and there should be a proportional response. And I'd like to see President Trump, along with our NATO allies,
who have spoken a little bit tougher about this, you know, speak in pretty bold terms to the Russians. Like, that is not acceptable.
And again, Poland is our ally. It's a NATO country. We've got to do what we can to send a strong message to Russia.
SCIUTTO: Congressman Ami Bera, we appreciate you joining.
BERA: Jim, thank you. Be well, be kind.
SCIUTTO: You, too, as well. Well, still ahead, this week's Israeli strike in Doha triggered new fears over the safety of Israeli hostages still held
by Hamas. I'm going to speak to Ruby Chen, the father of one of those hostages, coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:15:00]
SCIUTTO: In a blow, yet another blow to prospects for peace in the Middle East, the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, has ruled out a
Palestinian State and expressed sweeping claims over the occupied West Bank, declaring, quote, "there will never be a Palestinian State. This
place is ours."
Israeli leaders signed a document allowing Israel to significantly expand settlements in the occupied territories. The prime minister did so at a
settlement near Jerusalem, which is already the largest in those occupied territories and where Israel now plans to build thousands of new housing
units. The settlement expansion and Israel's growing opposition to a two- state solution will make it even more difficult for the possibility of establishing a future Palestinian State.
Also, in the West Bank, Israeli forces arrested dozens of Palestinians following an attack on a military vehicle that wounded two Israeli
soldiers. Residents say the men were rounded up indiscriminately in a campaign of what they're calling collective punishment.
Well, also, today, a funeral for victims of Israel's missile strike in Doha earlier this week. That attack targeted Hamas officials who had gathered to
discuss a U.S. ceasefire and hostage release proposal for Gaza. Hamas says five of its members were killed. Senior officials, however, they say
survived. The U.N. Security Council condemned the attack in a rare statement that was agreed by all 15 members today, though it did not
mention Israel.
Qatar's Prime Minister tells CNN in an exclusive interview that the attack was, quote, "barbaric." He says it puts the lives of the surviving hostages
held by Hamas in danger.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOHAMMED BIN ABDULRAHMAN AL-THANI, QATARI PRIME MINISTER AND FOREIGN MINISTER: I was meeting one of the hostages' family that morning, the
morning of the attack. They're carrying a message that the families, they are counting on this mediation. They have no other hope for that. And I
think that what Netanyahu has done yesterday, he just killed any hope for those hostages.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: We're watching closely, of course, Ruby Chen is the father of Israeli-American hostage Itay Chen. Itay was serving in the IDF in Southern
Israel at the time of the attacks, the October 7th attacks. So, Ruby, good to have you back on.
[18:20:00]
RUBY CHEN, FATHER OF ISRAELI-AMERICAN HOSTAGE ITAY CHEN: Yes. I'd like to send my condolences to Mr. Charlie Kirk and his family, as well as 9/11
today as a New Yorker. You know, we all New Yorkers stood together that day, and all of those, you know, events kind of come together, you know,
violence and having us as victims, and how do we end that vicious cycle.
SCIUTTO: Yes. I mean, listen, a lot of shared suffering. So, you hear the Qatari officials saying that hostage families like yourself were counting
on these talks. Netanyahu, on the other hand, says that the strike in Doha will, in his words, open the door to the end of the war. Do you believe
that?
CHEN: It is counterintuitive maybe to think that, while I have been doing meetings here in Washington, and I think that there is a growing
understanding by this administration that it even needs to take a more active role in the dynamics that hopefully would get us to the ceasefire.
The president, you know, has been in office for almost nine months, and, you know, he, at the beginning, said he would be able to solve this.
So, I think yesterday, the attack in Doha actually maybe was a wake-up call for this administration to maybe act a bit differently.
SCIUTTO: You know, the president has said that he's not happy about these strikes. Do you and other hostage families see a rift between Trump and
Netanyahu on these negotiations?
CHEN: I don't think we will see those publicly. I think that those will happen behind closed doors because each time that there was daylight
between the United States and Israel, Hamas did take a step back and was less engaged.
So -- but I know that the president of the United States was not happy with the developments of this week, and I hope to believe that he has added
incentive energy after meeting hostage families this week again, which was very nice of him to do so even though it was not planned. And it gave some
energy to him and to his team to try to get this to the finish line.
SCIUTTO: The opposition leader, Yair Lapid, she asked if the Israeli government even weighed the risk of the hostages before authorizing this
Qatar strike. Do you believe that those risks were properly considered in this?
CHEN: Well, you know, I would like to go back maybe a year and a half ago where the prime minister said to me an obstacle to getting to a hostage
jail is Yahya Sinwar, and for that he needs to be eliminated. And then, Israel went off and eliminated the guy that replaced Yahya Sinwar, then
replaced the guy that replaced the replacement, and now it's going after this guy. And the question is, has the Hamas position changed? And I don't
think it has changed that much.
So, the question is how much of an impact would that attempt that we saw this week move the negotiations. And I think that the prime minister has
just basically said that it is an option to return the hostages. He's playing Russia roulette with my son and the probability of bringing him
back. And I see him less of a partner for me and my family to bring Itay back, and that is why I'm here in the United States calling to the
president of the United States and his administration and asking them to do more to bring my son back, a U.S. citizen, after two years in captivity.
SCIUTTO: Do you sense -- because this is not the first time President Trump has expressed either unhappiness or impatience with Israeli
operations. I mean, he's said multiple times it's time for Israel to wrap this up. Weeks ago, months ago. When you speak to U.S. officials, do you
sense their patience wearing thin?
CHEN: You know, a presidency moves pretty fast. And I think that nine months into this, the president has wanted to see himself as the greatest
president of this generation. And I think time has been moving very quickly for this administration, especially in the foreign affairs dimension. You
know, there's Iran, there's the Ukraine, and there's Gaza.
And I think the patience of this administration has changed a lot over the last couple of weeks, and hopefully, we will see that in a deal happening
pretty soon. I hope to believe the Qataris will not walk away from the table, and I hope to believe that together they will put together a deal in
place that will be a compromise, that both sides will need to give in a bit, but at least will decouple maybe the hostages and the humanitarian
crisis in Gaza from the Palestinian issue, which we are going to see a lot this month with the upcoming U.N. General Assembly.
SCIUTTO: Can you do that, though? I mean, you have the Israeli prime minister in the West Bank today, you know, saying there will be no
Palestinian State. It's just -- you know the reaction that that will garner, not just from Palestinians, but from other Arab leaders that are
involved in these negotiations.
[18:25:00]
CHEN: I think it's a well-known tactic of any politician, definitely someone as seasoned as Prime Minister Netanyahu, is to deflect the focus,
the spotlight on one topic and move it to another topic. So, by doing so, he maybe wants to deflect the Qatari attempt, which was, you know, a
disaster. How is it that you see a U.S. ally attacking another U.S. ally, and what is the United States supposed to do in that situation?
So, hopefully, again, this week was a wake-up call, and maybe it's counterintuitive, but we can only get hope from these meetings that we've
had this week in Washington, and hopefully we will have an ending and bring back my son, a U.S. citizen, back home.
SCIUTTO: Well, we hope you finally get that relief. Ruby Chen, thanks so much for coming back to the show.
CHEN: Thanks for having me. God bless.
SCIUTTO: We wish you the best of luck. Coming up just after the break, more on the ongoing manhunt for the killer of Charlie Kirk. Officials say
there are, quote, "rapid developments" in the case. Not clear what those are yet.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." I'm Jim Sciutto. And here are the international headlines we're watching today.
Investigators say there are, quote, "rapid developments" in the ongoing search for Charlie Kirk's killer. Earlier authorities in Utah said they
made several breakthroughs, including the recovery of the rifle they believe the shooter used in the attack. President Trump says he will honor
Kirk with the Presidential Medal of Freedom posthumously.
The British prime minister has fired the British ambassador to the U.S., Peter Mandelson, over links to the late convicted offender -- sex offender
Jeffrey Epstein. The U.K. Foreign Office says newly discovered e-mails show the extent of Mandelson's relationship with Epstein was materially
different from what was known at the time of his appointment. James Roscoe will become the interim ambassador.
[18:30:00]
Eight people are dead, 67 others in the hospital after a gasoline truck exploded in Mexico City. The explosion generated a shockwave that damaged
dozens of vehicles, this according to the city's prosecutor's office. Forensic experts trying to discover what caused the blast.
Returning now to our top story, the urgent manhunt underway to find the person responsible for killing conservative political activist Charlie
Kirk. The FBI has released these images showing someone they call a person of interest. The agency is now offering a reward of $100,000 for
information leading to the arrest of a suspect.
Law enforcement has been searching a nearby neighborhood. You see them there. Officials say they are making progress in finding the killer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MASON: After the shooting, we were able to track his movements as he moved to the other side of the building, jumped off of the building, and fled off
of the campus and into a neighborhood. Our investigators have worked through those neighborhoods, contacting anybody they can with doorbell
cameras, witnesses -- and have thoroughly worked through that -- those communities trying to identify any leads.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Kevin Liptak is at the White House, and Kevin, as the president was speaking a short time ago, he also hinted at progress in the manhunt.
Any details from White House officials as to what exactly they're talking about?
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, and the president was relatively tight-lipped about what exactly he knew about the state of this
investigation, and we also heard earlier today from the chief of staff, Susie Wiles, she was appearing on a podcast. She, too, said essentially
that what the White House knew is what was being said in public, which was that they do have a lead, they've put out these photos, but not really
saying much more than that.
Certainly, this fact that this assassin remains on the loose has generated a degree of unease here at the White House that has been layered on top of
all the other emotions that officials have been feeling, whether it's anger and just a deep sadness at the death of Charlie Kirk. We saw earlier today
certain security measures being ramped up around President Trump when he was speaking at the Pentagon at the 24th anniversary of the September 11th
attacks. You know, ordinarily, that event occurs outside the building, but they moved it into the interior courtyard, a somewhat more secure location,
as a direct result of what's happened yesterday.
We also know that now the president is up in New York. He's going to Yankee Stadium in the Bronx for a game there tonight, and security has been ramped
up there as well, you know, checkpoints at all of the entrances, a protective glass around where the president will sit. And so, you do see
all of that being ramped up as this investigation proceeds in Salt Lake -- the Salt Lake area.
The vice president, J. D. Vance, is there right now on the ground in Utah. He's visiting with members of Charlie Kirk's family. And then, later, he
will aboard Air Force Two, escort Charlie Kirk's casket back to Phoenix, Arizona, which is where he lived, where his organization, Turning Point
USA, is based. And so, you do see how the administration is now sort of consolidating around the response to all of this.
The other thing that the president said out on the South Lawn was that he did plan to attend Charlie Kirk's funeral, which he said will take place in
Arizona. He thinks it will be next weekend. He says that he has an obligation, he feels, to attend that. Jim.
SCIUTTO: Kevin Liptak at the White House, thank you. Joining me now, retired FBI Special Agent Daniel Brunner on the ongoing manhunt. Good to
have you. Help us interpret, if you can, as investigators say, they have rapid developments, delay a press conference. Under what circumstances
would investigators do so?
DANIEL BRUNNER, RETIRED FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Well, I think that there's lots of different reasons, and one could speculate why the delay in the press
conference. I think you have to take into effect that it's very possible that the incoming director -- that Director Patel is coming in, that they
are holding off the press conference so the Director Patel could attend the press conference. That's a possibility.
And there is obviously, like I said, one of the things that I do find interesting is the fact that they put out the $100,000 reward, the
photograph, there -- and for me in that -- my opinion is they're trying to generate leads. So, there's a lot of what they're saying is rapid
developing situation, but no arrests.
So, I think that there would be a significant -- you'd see overt officers moving in different directions. So, I think that there's lots of different
signals here going out there.
[18:35:00]
SCIUTTO: Yes.
BRUNNER: It's definitely developing. It's investigation that's rolling in process.
SCIUTTO: Investigators have said they have what they described as good video of the suspected shooter, but other experts have noted that releasing
the photos indicates they have not been able to do a positive ID of the shooter using technologies such as facial recognition. Given the extent of
the images they have, does that surprise you?
BRUNNER: No, it really doesn't surprise me. Putting the photograph out there once they've positively identified, unlike yesterday where we had
multiple -- it was a rapidly developing situation and multiple persons were being questioned as to possible shooters.
Now, that they seem to have focused in on this individual and putting his photograph out there and getting those -- getting more eyes on the
situation, it appears that they're creating more possibilities. They're creating to generate leads, to have people call in and say, I know that
individual. He was a student sat next to me. He wore that T-shirt. And they're really remarkable things.
SCIUTTO: I guess just -- and excuse my ignorance on this. Are the photos they have too grainy or is his face enough of his face covered that they
couldn't do a facial recognition check that might, say, pull up, well, a driver's license or a student ID?
BRUNNER: I think it's pretty difficult, but not going to be impossible. But I think it's rather difficult with the black hat, the black sunglasses
and the black T-shirt to really give a definitive look. Most likely they'll get the age, they'll get the obviously the race and they'll get a lot of
it. But they would get a huge vast array of individuals and they'll use that database to cross reference against individuals. Now, that may be
students at the school who are familiar with the buildings. It's going to take a little bit of time to do the facial recognition.
But what's most -- one of the most important things about putting this face out there is you've multiplied exponentially the number of people that are
looking out the windows, looking in their neighborhood, trying to see if there's a suspicious person. And those people calling law enforcement with
a tip. That's the big difference, is putting more people eyes on the ground, not just law enforcement.
SCIUTTO: Is that what often breaks cases like this, a tip coming in?
BRUNNER: Look at what happened to Luigi Mangione case. All it takes is -- and you're putting pressure on him. You put pressure on the shooter. He now
is now nervous. Not before the photograph was put out. He was just nervous that law enforcement that would be looking for him. Now, he's going to be
hyper nervous about every single person on the street. Now, that what -- if that pushes him and makes him pass the breaking limit, he'll make a
mistake. And when he makes a mistake, that's the individual. That's where we capture him, where he gets hungry. He's tired. He's cold. He makes a
mistake and someone sees something and they call up law enforcement and say, hey, I think he's it.
Luigi Mangione. Made a mistake at the McDonald's. He lowered his mask when he was flirting with a girl. Those are the mistakes that they -- that the
investigators need.
SCIUTTO: Yes, I remember that photo. That smile, right. It might have been the thing that got him caught. Retired FBI special agent Daniel Brunner, we
appreciate your joining.
BRUNNER: My pleasure.
SCIUTTO: Coming up after the break, Brazil's Supreme Court convicts former president Jair Bolsonaro plotting to overturn the 2022 election. The guilty
verdict means that Bolsonaro could face decades in prison.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:40:00]
SCIUTTO: Returning now to our top story, the shooting of the conservative activist Charlie Kirk. Hannah Schoenbaum is a reporter for the AP who was
in Utah for that event. She witnessed it as it happened. Hannah, good to have you. I can only imagine you're still processing what a horrible event
to witness. Tell us what that moment was like in that crowd there.
HANNAH SCHOENBAUM, AP REPORTER: Well, I actually want to clarify, I arrived on campus just after, but I have a lot of media colleagues who are
local and did witness it and are, like you said, still processing what they saw.
I arrived on campus just after as people were really just in shock. A lot of people were running off campus calling their loved ones. I was seeing
police swarming campus, trying to close off all of the roads leading in and out. There were helicopters flying overhead, police dogs everywhere, and
the SWAT team pulling up just around the time that I did. And so, I really just witnessed the utter chaos of the aftermath.
SCIUTTO: Tell us what's going on in that community right now with a shooter still on the loose.
SCHOENBAUM: Well, a lot of roads are still closed. The campus is still shut down to everyone who doesn't have a student ID. I have tried to go
door-to-door and speak to people about the fears that they're experiencing, but a lot of people are just keeping their doors closed, feeling very
worried. And there's still quite a police presence on campus as we're waiting for updates and as they're searching and exploring all the evidence
available.
And so, it's just a little bit eerily quiet on campus right now, and there's definitely tension in the community.
SCIUTTO: Listen, there are a lot of accusations going around now, as you know, on social media, even from political leaders. On the campus there and
in the community, is the mood one of, let's find a way out of this, let's deal with each other calmly and peacefully, or are you seeing those
divisions there on campus as well?
SCHOENBAUM: I would say we're not really seeing those divisions here. There's -- I've seen people on a lot of street corners, holding up signs
that say rest in peace, Charlie. Flags are at half-staff here. They were yesterday, not just for 9/11. There's just a somber mood around. A lot of
students saying that this is a community where they have always felt safe. And yesterday, changed that for a lot of people.
SCIUTTO: Well, Hannah, we're sorry you had to witness the aftermath of this. We do appreciate you sharing your experience of it.
SCHOENBAUM: Absolutely.
SCIUTTO: And we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:45:00]
SCIUTTO: This news just in to CNN. Former Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro has been sentenced to 27 years in prison. This, after he was
convicted of planning to overturn the country's 2022 election. The evidence largely centered on how Bolsonaro tried to stay in power after losing that
election to Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva. U.S. President Donald Trump, who's long been a supporter of Bolsonaro, reacted to the conviction just a short
time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I watched that trial. I know him pretty well. A born leader. He was a good -- I thought he was a good president of Brazil. And it's very
surprising that that could happen. That's very much like they tried to do with me, but they didn't get away with it at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: CNN's Julia Vargas Jones is live in Los Angeles with more details. Listen, this was a major national trial in Brazil. The accusation
that he tried to overturn the election in 2022. The court went forward with the trial, found him guilty and now sentenced him to nearly three decades
in prison. I wonder what the reaction in Brazil is right now.
JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, it's hard to overstate the importance of today for Brazil, right? It's not only about the
conviction, it's these 27 years in this big majority, four to one here. And the verdict also leaves Bolsonaro, who is now 70, facing the prospect of
spending the rest of his life in prison.
Now, this still could be appealed, Jim, we have to be fair here. And once those appeals are exhausted, it could still take weeks for an arrest to
take place. But still, it is an extraordinary break for Brazil from its history of deferring justice in the name of peace. Previous coup attempts
have not been tried. And several of the justices alluded to that as they read their decisions today and in previous days.
One of the justices says that this case represents an encounter between Brazil's past, present, and its future. Very poetic. And she was pointing
to that history of authoritarianism and as the reason why it's so important to safeguard democracy now, 40 years after the end of military rule there.
Now, Bolsonaro was found guilty on five counts. And I'll read them to you quickly. Plotting a coup, leading a criminal organization, trying to
abolish democratic order by force and committing violent acts against state institutions, and damaging protected property. All of this in Brazil's very
own January 6th, on January 8th, a couple of years later. Right.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
JONES: Throughout all of this, prosecutors, they showed so much evidence, Jim, from coup decrees printed inside the palace printer machines to
messages that had Bolsonaro speaking to his closest allies in attempts to poison the sitting president now, all of that has played out and has taken
a very important role in how Brazilians are perceiving their institutions of democracy as well.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Listen, I mean, the evidence you cite there is quite alarming. Are you seeing divisions in the public reaction to this? I mean,
Bolsonaro, he lost the election, but it was a fairly close election. He has a lot of supporters there.
JONES: Yes, about 40 percent, give or take, of Brazilians are still identifying with Bolsonaro, are still supporting him some way. Now, Lula
has his own support and that has been, in fact, rising as he stands up to Donald Trump. But it's important to remember, this is the very trial that
caused the White House to impose those 50 percent tariffs on Brazil and they had called the case politically motivated. The president himself said
that.
[18:50:00]
And now, conservative lawmakers are rushing to pass an amnesty law in an attempt to save the former president. So, we should see, the coming days
will really be a stress test, Jim, for that division, right, for Brazilian democracy. A lot of people there say that this trial proves that nobody is
above the law. But a lot of critics are saying that the judiciary has gone too powerful and that Bolsonaro was not given a fair chance to represent
himself and to fight these accusations.
So, the coming days, we saw some thousands of people coming to the streets already during this trial. What will happen now that we have a sentencing,
that we have 27 years in prison and comments from Donald Trump that could make things even more complicated for those Brazilian lawmakers in the
coming days.
SCIUTTO: Julia Vargas Jones, thanks so much for reporting. Well, South Korean workers detained in the State of Georgia here are now on their way
back home. A Korean Air chartered jet left Atlanta earlier today. Some 300 Korean workers were arrested in a huge immigration raid at a Hyundai LG
battery plant last week, you may remember.
South Korean officials say President Trump later actually wanted them to stay and somehow train U.S. workers. The South Korean president warned,
quote, "our businesses that are investing in the United States will no doubt be very hesitant."
Charles Kuck is a partner at Kuck Baxter Immigration. He is representing some of those South Korean workers. Good to have you. Thanks so much for
taking the time.
CHARLES KUCK, FOUNDING PARTNER, KUCK BAXTER IMMIGRATION: Thanks for having me, Jim, I appreciate it.
SCIUTTO: As I understand it, your clients, they had valid visa entries, B1 work visas and no overstays. So, can you explain how ICE explained the
justification for detaining them?
KUCK: ICE never explained the justification for detaining them. And that is actually the problem. ICE made no analysis or interview of these
individuals before detaining them. When ICE arrived on site at the big raid at Hyundai, that raid was specifically aimed towards Latino workers. The
warrant that they received, the affidavit for the warrant is all about Latino workers.
I think they were surprised when they went into the main facility, despite their in-depth investigation, that there were all these Koreans working on
the plant floor, installing machinery, which was entirely consistent with the B1 or the ESTA business visitor category that they had. They didn't
bring a Korean translator with them. They were trying to talk to them on an app on their phones. And it appears that later in the day, they just
decided, let's just arrest everybody and sort it out later.
SCIUTTO: Now, you hear President Trump saying, wait a second, maybe they should stay, train Americans. What's your reaction to that comment? And
what is the workers' reaction? Do they want to come back?
KUCK: Well, the thing is, they were going to train U.S. workers as soon as the machinery was installed. So, that was part of their whole assignment in
the United States. But I can tell you, after five and a half days in an ICE detention center in South Georgia, none of them wanted to stay. In effect,
the only person that stayed behind was an individual who's actually in the green card process and almost ready to get his green card.
SCIUTTO: So, what happens now? Because as you heard there from the Korean leader, he's understandably expressing the idea that perhaps Korean
companies will be hesitant to follow through on these promises to invest billions and build plants here, et cetera. I mean, what is the -- how is
the business community going to react to this?
KUCK: Well, they are already reacting negatively. I've received a number of calls from abroad, from companies that do this type of action and
activity in the United States, bringing their technology, bringing their product and installing it so U.S. workers can get jobs. And they are
hesitant. And this is not just Asia. This is from Europe. This is from Latin America that are all now hesitant to come here to bring their workers
here.
The weirdest thing about this whole episode is that the individual workers were promised they could come right back. Well, then what was the purpose
of them leaving in the first place? This whole episode is very strange and yet to be explained by ICE.
SCIUTTO: They were told they could come back by who?
KUCK: By ICE. And President Trump promised they could come right back to the United States. These people are not -- were not deported. They were
told, in fact, that they did nothing wrong and they were simply being allowed to leave of their own volition. Take it for what it's worth, that's
what happened. And we don't have an explanation from ICE.
SCIUTTO: And is part of this that they need the skills of these workers? Is that -- is my understanding correct that the Korean companies couldn't
find locally the kind of skilled workers they needed to do the jobs that these Korean workers were doing?
[18:55:00]
KUCK: Well, not exactly. You see, this equipment is manufactured in Korea, designed by Korean engineers or Japanese engineers, so they are the experts
on the equipment. There are no U.S. workers who know how to install, calibrate and ready these machines for production. And this is not the
first plant they've done this at. They've done this at every battery plant in the United States for the last decade. This is not new.
SCIUTTO: So, the skills at installing that equipment. Well, Charles Kuck, we look forward to having you back when this -- if this is resolved. Thanks
so much for joining today.
KUCK: Thank you. Have a great night.
SCIUTTO: And thanks to all of you for your company. I'm Jim Sciuto in Washington. You've been watching "The Brief." Please do stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:00:00]
END
