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The Brief with Jim Sciutto
Trump Orders Second Deadly Strike In International Waters; Framework Deal To Save TikTok In The U.S.; Russia And Belarus Conduct Joint Military Drills; Trump Admin. Renews Push To Fire Fed Governor Cook; Tyler Robinson Appeared To Confess In Online Chat; Rubio Meets With Israeli Leaders; Israel Prepares To Send Ground Forces Into Gaza. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired September 15, 2025 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: This -- it seems. It's odd. It's -- first of all, it's a problem on the extremes, it's radicals on the right and left. But
second of all, this this really does feel like a like a national problem given just the sick celebrations of Charlie Kirk's death we're seeing
online as well.
REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): Look, I think obviously you can go incident by incident, and each side can point the fingers and say the other is
responsible. My point is that across this nation, we need to do a better job of uplifting the debate and the discussion. Every elected official in
this country, from Congress, to the president, to every -- all the way down, to dog catcher, has a responsibility with the words that they use and
the way that they talk about these issues and the way that they talk about the debate.
We need to have robust debate. That's why we have a democracy That's why we have a constitutional Republic. If we all agreed on everything, then there
would be no reason to have this type of government. You could just have a dictatorship, but that's not what we the American people want. And so, we
duke it out. And sometimes your side wins and sometimes it doesn't.
But the bottom line here is everybody needs to take Accountability. And I would just implore all of my colleagues, and yes, Republicans right now are
in the majority. And so, Democrats feel this this urge to obviously speak out and push back against decisions that are being made here, but all of us
collectively have a responsibility to recognize the words that we use, stop calling everybody a fascist, stop calling everybody a dictator. Duke it out
in the in the public domain with respect to the ideas and the policies and then take it to the people for a vote.
But beyond that, stop with these calls for, you know, violence or action or we're at war and we need to use, you know, weapons at the bar fight. If you
go look at some of the rhetoric that has been used over these past nine months, it's horrific and it's got to stop.
TAPPER: Congressman Mike Lawler, a Republican of New York, thank you so much for your time, sir. Appreciate it.
LAWLER: Thank you.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. And you're watching
"The Brief."
Just at this hour, President Trump confirms the U.S. Military carried it carried out a second strike on a vessel in international waters He says
killing three people he says the boat was carrying illegal drugs from Venezuela. New reports suggest the suspected killer of Charlie Kirk
confessed to the crime in an online chat group. And a framework deal to save the Chinese app TikTok here in the U.S. reached. It could pave the way
towards a meeting between presidents Xi and Trump. That conversation and many more coming up
Breaking news this hour, President Trump has revealed the U.S. Military carried out a second strike on a boat allegedly used by Venezuelan drug
cartels. A short time ago, he posted on Truth Social saying, quote, "The strike occurred while these confirmed narcoterrorists from Venezuela were
in international waters transporting illegal narcotics. A deadly weapon poisoning Americans headed to the U.S."
The U.S. president also posted a video of the strike, as he did the first one. It's disturbing. President Trump said that explosion there and the
fire that follow killed three people. He identified them as three male terrorists. Not clear how they came to that conclusion. President Trump
spoke just moments ago in the Oval Office and issued a warning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: We have proof. All you have to do is look at the cargo that was --- like it's spattered all over the ocean. Big bags of
cocaine and fentanyl over the place. And it was -- plus we have recorded evidence that they were leaving. We've recorded them. It's very careful
because we know you people would be after us. We're very careful. The military has been amazing. And General Caine showed me a little while ago
the clip. But you could actually see it, but you don't have to see it because we have recorded proof and evidence.
They do come by land. And you know what, we're telling the cartels right now, we're going to be stopping them, too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: This the second strike the U.S. has conducted on a Venezuelan vessel in recent weeks. It comes as tensions have ratcheted up between
President Trump and Venezuela's leader in Nicolas Maduro.
Joining me now Stefano Pozzebon. I just wonder how Venezuela is responding to these strikes here. They're taking place international waters Trump says
that they are narcoterrorists from Venezuela. Has the Venezuelan government denied that?
[18:05:00]
STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, Jim. Well, we haven't heard from the Venezuelan government to just yet. This literally news breaking in
front of our eyes. And we did ask Caracas for comment or if they can confirm at least this incident. If we hear back from them, we'll definitely
let you know.
But in the past, at least in the immediate aftermath of that first strike against a Venezuelan speedboat that killed 11 Venezuelan citizens a couple
of weeks ago and even last week, the Venezuelan government has issued a unified stance saying that, of course, this a breach of international law.
That even if these people are indeed drug traffickers the United States do not have the authority of killing them on international water with a
teleguided missile because they're still due -- they're still worthy of a fair trial a due process of course.
But at the same time, Maduro was on television today. He speaks every Monday from the national television. And in his two-hour speech today,
there was a very interesting line that I found -- that I find interesting, Jim, which is that while he did take a personal attack against the current
secretary of state, Mark Rubio, he did say that he was open for more negotiation and dialogue with Donald Trump. Even calling for a personal
meeting just like the ones that Trump has done in the past with the likes of Xi Jinping or Kim Jong Un or Vladimir Putin, were all allies of Maduro.
He's lying against the secretary of state, Mark Rubio, was instead very, very strong. Take a listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICOLAS MADURO, VENEZUELAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Who? Marco Rubio, they now call him the lord of death and war. Wherever he goes there
is death, there are bombs, there are murdered children. Marco Rubio, the lord of death, war, and hatred.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
POZZEBON: And so, you can see that Maduro is trying to distance a Donald Trump on one side from Marco Rubio on the other one, and that -- on the
other side, and that I think is really interesting. Marco Rubio is the one that is ideologically opposed to the Venezuelan government. Marco Rubio, of
course, hails from South Florida where a lot of conservative Venezuelan expatriates are now leaving or have been leaving since the -- since
Maduro's predecessor Hugo Chavez took power in 1999 in Caracas.
And on the other side, Maduro is trying to appeal to that side of the MAGA movement to that side of the White House to do that side of the Trump
administration who is open to negotiate a deal, a deal that can last -- can be found around oil exports from Venezuela to the United States, which by
the way, are still continuing, as well as continuing are the deportation of Venezuelan migrants from the United States back to Caracas. That side of
the Trump administration is represented by Richard Grenell who was the one traveling in July to Caracas that negotiated a release of U.S. citizens
wrongfully detained in Venezuela.
So, it's interesting that Maduro knows which soul within the Trump coalition to speak to and which on the other one take a personal stab on.
Jim.
SCIUTTO: Stefano Pozzebon, thanks so much for joining. Well, the years-long battle over the fate of Chinese social media app TikTok in the U.S. Could
be coming to an end. Negotiators from both countries announced they have reached a, quote, "framework deal" to keep the app up and running in the
U.S. Officials say that under the deal ownership of the app will switch from a Chinese firm, ByteDance, to a U.S.-controlled group. They say
details could be finalized later this week when President Trump and the Chinese leader, Xi Jinping, speak on the telephone.
One key issue that has weighed on negotiations is the question of who will control TikTok's unique and highly profitable algorithm which Beijing has
so far refused to give up. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent was asked about that today. And here's how he answered.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happens with the algorithm TikTok? Does it become U.S.-owned or does -- who will own it?
SCOTT BESSENT, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: You know, we're not going to talk about the commercial terms of the deal. It's between two private parties.
But the commercial terms have been agreed upon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: The thing is that was not entirely a commercial question, the issue at the root of this, including that led to bipartisan legislation
this country, was the allegation that there was a security threat from TikTok. Bessent was in Madrid Spain where senior U.S. and Chinese officials
were holding broader discussions on trade in hopes of securing a face-to- face meeting between Presidents Trump and Xi as soon as October, perhaps as well a future Trump visit to Beijing.
[18:10:00]
Despite the apparent progress in broader negotiations, a number of highly contentious trade issues remain between the two countries. A Chinese
regulator just issued a preliminary ruling against the A.I. chip giant NVIDIA for, it says, violating Chinese antitrust laws, this when it bought
an Israeli-U.S. Tech firm back in 2020.
Joining me now to discuss this broader relationship and all these issues, Frank Lavin. He served as undersecretary for international trade at the
U.S. Commerce Department Back in the George W. Bush administration, also a former U.S. ambassador to Singapore. Ambassador, thanks so much for
joining.
FRANK LAVIN, FORMER UNDER SECRETARY FOR INTERNATIONAL TRADE, U.S. COMMERCE DEPARTMENT: Jim, thanks for having me on.
SCIUTTO: So, the key issue here with TikTok, and this the bipartisan view because it led to bipartisan legislation passed by quite broad margins as
you remember, was the TikTok was a national security threat. Based on what you know here, without a direct answer from the U.S. treasury secretary on
that algorithm, can we be confident that those national security issues have been dealt with?
LAVIN: I think it's still very much an open question, Jim. And there are at least two themes here that got people on the U.S. side concerned. One was
the messaging dimension that it looked like TikTok was on a neutral platform when people posted things or had criticisms, it would magnify sort
of pro-Chinese views and minimize criticism. So, that was one very important line of criticism.
The other one was data collection. If everybody in the U.S. is plugged into this, they know a lot. They know a lot where people live, where they
travel, their holidays, their work habits and so forth So, they can collect large-scale data and draw conclusions about military deployments and so
forth from it. So, those are both I think very valid concerns and we don't have a -- of how this agreement might be addressing those concerns.
SCIUTTO: Is there any way to address those concerns without complete U.S. control of the technology here? I mean is -- can you fudge it? Can you
share it, right, share the data, share the access and still solve that problem?
LAVIN: I think we'd have -- to your point, I think we'd have to make sure that the U.S. entity that owns TikTok that U.S. entity alone maintains all
of the data. That data doesn't leave the U.S. The data doesn't go into some China global feed, but it is a standalone entity that does not respond to
control -- directives from China. That's what we'd have to make sure. And we just don't know if we're on that path or not.
SCIUTTO: The trouble is that Trump, at least in his public comments and certainly the lack of speed with which he dealt with this issue given that
there was bipartisan legislation passed by Congress, doesn't seem to share the same urgency or concern about TikTok as many lawmakers do and it seems
see some advantage from TikTok, as he believes that that influences on TikTok helped get him elected. So, I wonder, you know, if part of the issue
here, right, is that China might use TikTok to influence American voters, et cetera, whether it's clear that's at all a priority, stopping that is a
priority at all for President Trump.
LAVIN: Yes. And I think, unfortunately, you know, Donald Trump is not known for understatement. So, when he kind of goes out there boldly and says,
we've got a framework, we've got a deal. Now China is off the hook. Now China can shift the terms a little bit and push a little bit or trim things
a little bit and Donald Trump can't say, well, I blew it or I made a mistake or ever so. So, he's got to take whatever they're going to serve
it. So, it's always, I think, a little bit of a mistake to go out to front run the hard news by declaring victory when we don't have a victory yet.
So, there's going to be more to this story, I submit, even if Donald Trump declares repeatedly, we have victory. We don't know what's in that
agreement.
SCIUTTO: How does this factor into the larger ongoing trade negotiations between China and the U.S., which clearly are not resolved even though
they're talking about a summit now because, you know, China just imposed this new action against NVIDIA? Can the TikTok agreement lead towards a
broader agreement?
LAVIN: Well, I think there is good news thematically, Jim, and that both parties met in Madrid. It was not characterized by rancor, ill-will or
denigration. Both sides were functional and trying to solve a problem. So, it's nice to have a little bit of that sort of professionalism in the
diplomatic space after sort of six months of rancor and ill-will and just denigrating them. So, it is, I think, a useful signal to China to say, we
are willing to work with you on some kind of fair terms and let's get into some of these trade issues.
So, it's not a bad tone setter to have every once in a while a little bit of carrot in the relationship, not have to be 100 percent stick.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Frank Lavin, we appreciate you walking us through it. Thanks so much.
LAVIN: Thanks, Jim.
[18:15:00]
SCIUTTO: Well, now, show to -- now to a show of force. Russia and Belarus conducting joint military exercises as tensions grow with NATO. Belarus
says officials from 23 countries, including the U.S., observe those war games. This comes as Poland suggests that NATO should now impose a no-fly
zone over Ukraine, in large part to protect those eastern facing NATO allies. You'll remember Poland shot down numerous Russian drones in its
airspace just last week. A Russian drone also breached Romania's airspace over the weekend. Fred Pleitgen in Belarus with more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A massive show of force right on NATO's doorstep. Russia and its ally Belarus
in live-fire drills.
PLEITGEN: They come as tensions between NATO and Russia are extremely high. In fact, the Russians have placed nuclear weapons here in Belarus over the
past couple of months. And as part of these drills, they've showcased some of their most modern nuclear capable weapons missiles that are fired from
boats, from submarines, but also of course, from aircraft and from land as well/
PLEITGEN (voice-over): Extremely concerning for the U.S.'s allies with Belarus bordering several Eastern European NATO member states. And coming
just days after Russian combat drones breached a NATO member Poland's airspace, even though the Russians claim they didn't fly them there
intentionally.
The U.S.'s allies are on edge, Poland sending additional troops to the border with Belarus as President Donald Trump's efforts to broker a peace
agreement between Russia and Ukraine have stalled, the U.S.'s NATO allies are waiting for a more forceful response from the White House.
President Trump saying he's still considering tougher sanctions against Moscow, the Kremlin blaming the U.S.'s allies for holding up the process.
The Europeans are obstructing progress, the Kremlin spokesman says, they refuse to acknowledge the fundamental origins of this crisis, thereby
blocking any path to addressing the very causes. Nonetheless, Russia remains open and prepared for dialogue.
Prepared for dialogue, but showing off their military muscle The Russians showcasing their modern nuclear capable weapons like the Tsirkon hypersonic
missile and Kinzhal air-launched ballistic missiles which can carry nuclear warheads.
We managed to systematically plan the issues of using weapons of more powerful destruction in this exercise, Belarus's defense minister says.
Despite the firepower on display here, a senior Belarusian general accuses NATO of panicking when I asked him about Western concerns.
It's a big mistake from NATO, he says. Look at the numbers 6,800 people compared to 40,000 on the territory of Poland. Where do you think there are
more personnel? Probably there.
Several U.S. military observers were on hand to witness the drills Russia and Belarus put on. Seeing a military force that says it's ready for a
major combat against any foe at any time.
Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Borisov, Belarus.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Joining me now is Dan Rice former U.S. military officer who served a special adviser to the commander in chief of the Ukrainian armed forces
Joining us now from Ukraine. Dan, good to have you back.
DAN RICE, FORMER SPECIAL ADVISER TO COMMANDER IN CHIEF OF UKRAINIAN ARMED FORCES: Hi, Jim. Good to see you. Thanks for having me.
SCIUTTO: I want to begin, if I can, with the Russian drones that crossed into Polish airspace and now you have this one over the weekend into
Romania. You've heard Polish officials say quite publicly, they believe that this deliberate, a deliberate test of NATO's eastern defenses and
reactions. President Trump has raised questions about, said, oh, it could have just been an accident. What's your view, deliberate or not?
RICE: 100 percent deliberate, Jim. There were 19 Shahed drones that were fired into Poland. You know they were intentionally fired in because they
didn't have armaments on it. They didn't have weapons. If they were going into Ukraine, Ukraine has taken 30,000 Shaheds and they're all armed. So,
the fact that they were not armed shows that they were just trying to test the Polish response. The Polish response has been great.
This the first time, Jim, in 76 years that a NATO country has ever been attacked in Europe This a big deal followed by another encroachment into
Romania. That drone either went out of the airspace or crashed. It is not known at this point. But these are major testing points. This just what
Putin does. He's KGB to the core. He's constantly pushing the West. But that was an incursion into Poland and it was an invasion. Just like when
the Kremlin invaded in 1939.
[18:20:00]
SCIUTTO: Yes.
RICE: They are seriously a threat to Poland. Poland recognizes it. Poland is arming up as quickly as possible. And Poland recognizes that only
Ukraine can defend against these. And actually, they're asking for Ukrainians to come train the Poles on how to defend against these Shaheds.
So, that's a really good step for Ukraine and Poland.
SCIUTTO: So, did NATO pass this test? If this was a Kremlin test of NATO, did it pass it or is it possible that Putin's more interested in how the
U.S. and President Trump responds than how Poland or its NATO allies respond?
RICE: That's a great question, Jim. It's a multilayered response. Basically, you have to have your political, military, economic forces all
aligned together. We have 32 different NATO countries that are all democracies. In this case, for a military response, it was appropriate. We
had Dutch F-16s attack the drones, plus an F-35.
So -- but Poland could do a better job getting the drones to stop at the border, which Ukraine does typically. And so, from a military standpoint,
it was testing, probing, but they're really testing the diplomatic composite here, and they really want to break up NATO. That's what he's
constantly trying to do.
All he's done is coalesce NATO, though. NATO grew from 30 to 32. By the way, when Sweden and Finland joined NATO, he didn't oppose them, even
though they are closer to Moscow than Ukraine. So, Ukraine's not a threat to Russia, but he wants it, and that's why he says it can't join NATO. So,
really, I think NATO has responded well, but has to continue so.
So, the big question with NATO is, does it trigger what's called Article 5? And that's whole key to NATO. There's 14 Articles of Confederation. And
basically, they called together, the group, to say, hey, we have a problem here. That's Article 4. They did do that. They have not said that an attack
on one is an attack on all, because the attack wasn't significant enough to warrant that. But that is the big test of NATO. If and when Russia probes,
does NATO come together, and do all 32 countries respond, which hopefully they will? But that's what he's testing every day.
SCIUTTO: Given I have you in Ukraine now, can I ask you your view of where the battle on the frontlines stands? Is Ukraine still holding the line, or
is Russia continuing, and we've been hearing this for some weeks now, to make gradual and costly progress, but progress nonetheless?
RICE: Sure. Jim, I think we have to change the narrative. Ukraine is strong. Ukraine is very strong, much stronger than 2022. Russia is weak,
much weaker than it was in 2022. And I'll give you some statistics. Ukraine has killed or wounded 1.1 million Russians, 32,000 artillery tubes, 24,000
armored vehicles, 12,000 tanks, and destroyed a third of the strategic bomber fleet of Russia and a third of the Black Sea fleet.
So, basically, Ukraine has destroyed the entire army of NATO. Imagine that. Nobody really talks about this in context. That's the size that Ukraine has
destroyed of Russia.
Now, Russia is larger and keeps coming. But Ukraine has gotten stronger, has better equipment, better training, overall, just a better army. Now,
Russia has 141 million people. Ukraine has about 30 million. So, a war of attrition is not a good battle to fight. So -- but Ukraine has taken it now
into Russia with long-range weapons that are destroying the refineries. Jim, that's the way this war is going to end, affect the supply and the
demand of Russian oil and gas. And that's what Ukraine is doing. They took off 20 percent of the refining capacity of Russia in one month. That's the
way to win this war.
And that's what President Trump is doing, is going after the secondary sanctions in India. We need to get China to stop buying the Russian oil,
too. If you get the two of those countries to do it, which is a big if, but if you get those to stop, the war ends because Russia can't finance this
war. So, that's where it's all coming together.
Right now, I think Ukraine is very strong. But Russia is a terrorist nation, continues to bomb every single night, 30,000 Shaheds. We get them
all the time. So, Russia is continuing to kill innocent civilians. Ukraine lives by the law of land warfare. Ukraine should be a member of the E.U.
and NATO. NATO will be stronger with Ukraine in it by far. And all the NATO countries need to start learning from Ukraine very quickly. And I think
that's what Poland realized this week.
SCIUTTO: Yes, they're definitely leading the way on a whole host of technologies, including drones, Ukraine is. Dan Rice, good to have you
there. Please stay safe.
RICE: Thanks, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Still ahead, the battle to ensure U.S. Central Bank independence far from guaranteed. The Trump administration makes a new push to fire Fed
Governor Lisa Cook on the eve of a critical Fed meeting.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:25:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." Another record-breaking day on Wall Street. All the major averages finished in the green with the S&P and
NASDAQ hitting yet more all-time highs. U.S. stocks rising on optimism about U.S.-China trade and a possible deal to save TikTok here in the U.S.
Among today's stock winners, Alphabet, of course, Google's parent, up 4 percent. The market cap of Google's parent, now $3 trillion. Only the
fourth company to reach that milestone. Tesla shares rally on word that CEO Elon Musk bought $1 billion shares worth -- sorry, $1 billion worth of the
company's stock, seen as a vote of confidence in the company's future. Certainly, it would push up the stock price.
The U.S. Appeals Court is expected to rule soon on an issue that could have a major impact on who sits at the Fed's next policy meeting beginning
Tuesday, when they're going to be considering cutting interest rates. The White House is asking the court for permission to fire Fed Governor Lisa
Cook immediately before those meetings begin.
The White House accuses Cook of engaging in mortgage fraud. All this despite new evidence that Cook did nothing wrong when filling out a
mortgage application at the center of the dispute. According to Reuters, Cook said in a loan estimate that a property she was buying in Atlanta
would be used as a vacation home, not her primary residence. The Trump administration says she had characterized the property as well as a
separate property as primary residences.
Also, today, the Senate is set to vote on the nomination of Stephen Miran, President Trump's pick to temporarily fill another Fed governor slot. If
confirmed, he could have a seat at tomorrow's Fed meeting.
Jason Furman was chair of the White House Council of Economic Advisers during the Obama administration, now a professor of practice at the Harvard
Kennedy School. Jason, good to have you on.
JASON FURMAN, FORMER CHAIR, COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISERS: Good to be with you.
SCIUTTO: So, you wrote in The Times recently that the Fed's independence depends on three things, the courts, the Senate and the Fed itself. Are
they holding up here or do you see that independence disappearing?
FURMAN: Yes, Jim, I am terrified about what might happen to Fed independence because it's so important. But so far it is holding up.
There's a very strong tradition in the building. There's staggered terms. The courts have so far backed Lisa Cook and the Senate hasn't been, you
know, heroic. But the senators at least say the right thing about independence. And I think that counts for something.
[18:30:00]
SCIUTTO: It does count for something. Is anybody whispering those words in Trump's ear, right? Because the impression had been that Scott Bessent,
given he's a Wall Street guy, he can speak honestly to the president. And they say that he was influential back in April when the bond markets were
going crazy. And he said, hey, you've got to pay attention to this with your tariffs, et cetera, and Trump, listen.
Is anybody, do you think, speaking honestly to Trump saying, hey, independence matters here for the health of the economy?
FURMAN: Look, I worry about the advice he's getting when I hear some of his people speak in public about the Fed. It's with just incredible, just sort
of incoherent, inconsistent, you know, utter disregard for what its job is.
But one force does speak, and that's the market. And earlier this year, when it looked like Jay Powell might be on the verge of being fired, the
market really tanked. When President Trump went out and said that wasn't the going to happen, the market rebounded. So, underlying all of it, that
is a little bit of a constraint. But none of these constraints are perfect. They're all pretty good, but none of them are foolproof.
SCIUTTO: The trouble is with the market, right, and you know this better than me, is that they all kind of want lower interest rates, right? I mean,
it's good for stock prices. It makes it easier for businesses to borrow money and then spend it at will. Are you confident that even the markets
will be, maybe they'll say, well, you know, let them have a little more influence over the Fed, let them have a couple governors, et cetera, and by
the way, we're going to make even more money than we're already making?
FURMAN: Yes, I'm not confident of anything. I'm confident that if we had a president, the likes of which basically every president up until now has
been, who's going to appoint good people and for the most part, protect them and give them the space to make their decisions, that everything else
would function. The rest of these are meant as constraints on the president. None of them are perfect. They're decent.
You know, in terms of the market, it was interesting back when it looked like the Fed might lose its independence, what you saw was expectations of
short-term interest rates, which are what the Fed controls went down, expectations of longer-term interest rates, which is what matters for
mortgages, what matters for most businesses, those actually went up because the market got nervous about the future of inflation, nervous about risk.
And that's one of the ironies here.
If the president did a hostile takeover of the Fed, I don't think he could actually lower the mortgage rates for anyone watching this program. All he
could do is lower the Fed funds rate, which is what banks borrow from each other at, but doesn't actually matter very directly to most people.
SCIUTTO: Final question, just if I can, on the overall health of the economy, because you wrote as well in The Times about how we might be in a
new normal for the U.S. economy with lower job growth, in part, you say, because of a decline in immigration. Can you explain that argument and say
-- tell us what that would mean for overall economic growth in the U.S.?
FURMAN: Look, I mean, we certainly have more than a whiff of stagflation as this year the unemployment rate has risen and the core inflation rate has
risen. But the job growth slowdown has been really dramatic. I think that overstates the problems facing the U.S. economy because the biggest issue
there has been labor supply. The population in the United States basically isn't growing because of fertility rates, because of retirement.
In the past, we've counted on labor force growth to come from immigration. That's basically not happening anymore. And so, we're in an economy where
we should, if we keep these immigration policies, actually expect lower job growth, expect lower economic growth. And that's, you know, what's normal
for a very low immigration aging country like we see in Europe and Japan.
SCIUTTO: Yes. If only we'd look to history, right? A lot of lessons. Jason Furman, thanks so much for joining.
FURMAN: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Did the suspect in Charlie Kirk's assassination confess online? New details as the suspected gunman set to make his first appearance in
court.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:35:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." I'm Jim Sciutto. And here are the international headlines we're watching today.
The U.S. military has struck another vessel from Venezuela, accusing the crew of ferrying illegal drugs. President Trump announced the strike on
Truth Social, here's the video, saying, quote, "three narcoterrorists" were killed in that explosion there. Monday's strike in international waters
comes two weeks after the U.S. military killed 11 people on another alleged drug ship that it struck.
New York Governor Kathy Hochul is now endorsing Zohran Mamdani as the New York City's mayoral candidate. She described the 33-year-old Democratic
socialist as, in her words, a leader who is focused on making New York City affordable. Hochul is the latest high-profile Democrat to come around to
backing Mamdani's campaign after initially refusing to endorse him after he secured the nomination for the Democratic Party back in June.
In his first sit-down media interview, Pope Leo is denouncing the huge salaries the top executives are getting, including Elon Musk. The first-
ever American pope said some CEOs are making 600 times what average workers getting paid. I mean, some many more times than that. He mentioned Elon
Musk's trillion-dollar incentive package at Tesla as an example. He says this huge difference is deepening the divide in society.
New reporting by The Washington Post that the 22-year-old suspect in the killing of U.S. conservative activist and Trump ally Charlie Kirk
apparently confessed to the crime online. The Post reports that suspect Tyler Robinson, pictured there, messaged a small chat group on the online
platform Discord. One message read, quote, "Hey guys, I have bad news for you all. It was me at UVU yesterday. I'm sorry for all of this." That
message was sent Thursday, according to sources. Screenshots obtained by the newspaper just two hours before Robinson was taken into custody was
when those messages were sent.
UVU is Utah Valley University, where Charlie Kirk was shot and killed. On Wednesday, Robinson will make his first court appearance Tuesday to face
criminal state -- to face formal state charges. He was arrested last week after a 33-hour manhunt, charged now with aggravated murder, felony
discharge of a firearm and obstruction of justice.
Kris Brown joins me now. She is the president of Brady United Against Gun Violence, a nonprofit that works to save lives through policy reform and
public awareness. Kris, so good to have you. Thanks so much.
KRIS BROWN, PRESIDENT, BRADY: Thanks for having me.
[18:40:00]
SCIUTTO: You know, so often in this country, sadly, and I mean, we have to report shootings all the time, right? Shootings like this, political
violence, school shootings, inner city crime, et cetera. But so often in the wake of shootings, rather than discussion of greater restrictions on
firearm ownership, you find a lot of people saying, we need more guns, right? I need them myself to protect myself, or teachers need them, or kids
who go to college campuses need them. Are you seeing that again now in the wake of this shooting?
BROWN: Well, certainly we're seeing a lot of finger pointing, that happened today when J.D. Vance took over Charlie Kirk's normal podcast and basically
pointed fingers at, quote/unquote, "liberal groups" with no evidence. We still have to wait to confirm any of the details for what led to this
shooting. But really, it's pretextual, as far as I can tell, to double down on this administration's effort to shut down any groups with which they
disagree, that they feel are undertaking activities that from their subjective viewpoint in some way go against what the administration wants.
And I think that's extraordinarily dangerous and very sad for me as someone who leads an organization founded by Jim Brady, a Republican, shot at the
same time as President Ronald Reagan. And if we go back in history, even President Reagan didn't spend his time pointing the finger at the shooter
there in that instance, because all of America knew one thing, this shooter shouldn't have had such easy access to a firearm.
And, Jim, if you look at polls across this country, regardless of what certain political actors are saying, whether you're a Republican or a
Democrat, a gun owner or not a gun owner, you're in favor of more sensible gun laws. And you want to see them in place because for most Americans
today, the prevalence of shootings, only in America could the shooting of Charlie Kirk be interrupted with breaking news of another school shooting
in Colorado.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
BROWN: Only one of them is getting media attention. But the reality is we have a mass shooting every day in this country, and we need to do better to
respond to the actual causes rather than fomenting finger pointing, which is really destroying the culture in our country in a horrific way.
SCIUTTO: Yes, it's remarkable that in the wake of some of the shootings we've seen recently, and we should just acknowledge that everything is so
tribal in this country right now that oftentimes you have some in politics who only think or talk about their own supporters. But you would expect
that someone might say, hey, how did this kid get this gun? And can we find a way to make it harder or even going back to the attempted assassination
of Donald Trump, right? But you have one party in this country that just will not involve itself in virtually any discussion of restrictions.
So, I wonder from where you're sitting, right, for an organization that did have some success with, for instance, waiting times, right, in the wake of
the Reagan assassination back in the '80s, what's working right now? What efforts are working to reduce this kind of violence?
BROWN: Yes. Well, so many different efforts are working to reduce this gun violence in this country, and I want to really spread a message of hope
around that. One thing I do want to say is making sure that those of us who want stronger gun laws to protect ourselves, our communities, our families
being anchored in facts is super important. And there's a lot of lies that the gun industry have propagated, for one purpose, to sell more guns,
including the big lie that more guns make us safer.
And I just want to say, if more guns made us safer, we'd be the safest country on Earth. We have, in some estimates, about 500 million guns in
this country, way more guns than people. We have more mass gun violence. We have more individual gun violence than any other country. It's about the
guns. And states that enact stronger gun laws, things like expanded Brady, Brady background checks, bans on assault weapons, extreme risk protection
laws.
The list goes on and on and on for the states that actually embrace those solutions. They have a statistically hugely significant decrease in gun
deaths and injury. You compare that to the states with the weakest gun laws, which per capita have much higher incidences of gun death and injury.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand however that we live in mostly contiguous states.
[18:45:00]
So, the states with the strongest gun laws are at risk of their own death and injury from the states with the weakest laws. That's why we need to
call more federal attention and hold our politicians accountable, push back on these narratives that, well, it just doesn't matter. That, as Donald
Trump -- Candidate Trump said, after a different school shooting involving kids, well, we just have to get used to this. No parent wants to hear that
and we need to push back on that narrative because stronger gun laws save lives. It's really that simple.
SCIUTTO: Listen, I've talked to New York -- NYPD officers who describe the pipeline of weapons from the South where gun laws are less strict and they
end up on New York streets. Let me ask you this, because you're right, the facts are quite clear on the numbers. They're also quite clear on where the
American public is on broader background checks, other measures that does not enter our politics, right? And I wonder, do you see it as a voting
issue? I mean, is there evidence that people vote on this, right?
Because the way elections turn out, they're still quite willfully electing lawmakers and presidents who have no interest in -- not even just adding to
the laws, right, they're reducing, right? restrictions over time? Does it translate into votes? Is my question.
BROWN: Yes, it's a fair question, Jim. Yes and no. So, I'll answer it in both ways. Yes, in the sense that if you look at historical precedents,
look at the horrific shooting on Valentine's Day 2018 at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School. You had -- that was an election year, a federal
election year, and you had a huge number of candidates run on the gun violence prevention platform. And when there was a party change in the
United States House of Representatives, Nancy Pelosi was the speaker, she credited gun violence prevention with leading to a huge number of Democrats
being elected. That matters because the House of Representatives passed a whole spate of legislation because there was a gun violence prevention
majority.
And so, yes, we can win. The issue is sustained interest from voters in making sure that the candidates that they're electing, and by the way, it's
not just at the federal level, because gun violence prevention matters also at the local level and at the state level, that voters educate themselves
and only vote for gun violence prevention champions. That's not happening consistently enough.
I will say, however, we know that we can still get bipartisan support, even in tough times. And I'll point to in the aftermath of Yuval Day, Congress
did pass the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act providing unprecedented funding. 16 Republicans voted yes, but voters need to pay attention to this
and vote this issue as a top priority if we actually have any hope of changing this ever consistently at the federal level.
SCIUTTO: Yes, and you wonder if people's senses are dulled to it, right, given the frequency. Kris Brown, good to have you on and I appreciate the
work you're doing.
BROWN: Thanks, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Just ahead, Marco Rubio is in Jerusalem. What the U.S. Secretary of State is or is not telling the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu
and where Rubio is headed next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:50:00]
SCIUTTO: U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio will visit Qatar as part of his Middle East tour. This comes on the heels of Israel's strike on Qatar
just last week. Rubio met with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu a short time ago in Jerusalem. He told the prime minister that the U.S. still backs
Israel and its expanding offensive into Gaza City. According to a former Israeli military chief who oversaw the first 17 months of the war in Gaza,
more than 10 percent of Gaza's entire population has been killed or injured since the start of the war.
Our Jeremy Diamond has more. And as so often with stories from Gaza, we warn you some of these images are disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Gaza City trembles with each new blast. Lately, its residents have faced one strike
after another. And the reality on the ground is even more terrifying. Bloodied and shaken, the injured are rushed out amid swirls of smoke and
ash.
Wounded children carried once again into hospitals, ill-equipped to handle the rising tide of casualties that accompanies Israel's intensifying
bombardment of Gaza city. More than 140 were killed here over the weekend, according to local hospitals.
A wave of attacks that shook many here into fleeing the city. Sleepy children bundled into their parents' arms, essential belongings lugged by
those forced to move once again. At daybreak, their numbers multiply. A mass exodus on a scale not seen in Gaza in many months. More than 100,000
people were displaced this weekend alone, according to Israeli military estimates.
I'm coming from death, indiscriminate bombardments, martyrs in the streets, Mohammed says. It is a miracle we survived.
Old and young pressed south towards an uncertain future. Those who can afford it pay to ride on top of trucks and trailers. For many here, this
not a first. They have been forced to pile their entire lives on top of cars and makeshift carts before they have already lost so much, and they
are exhausted.
This man says 25 of his relatives have already been killed. I left only for these children, but I wish a rocket would hit me and I die and find comfort
because this not life, he says. His frustration rising.
From the hundreds of thousands who still remain in Gaza City will face much more destruction and loss as Israel prepares to send ground forces into the
city in the coming days.
Ahmed is inconsolable as he walks amid the rubble of another Israeli strike. A military evacuation order allowed him to escape with his life,
but little else.
The house is gone. Where will we stay? he cries.
But he won't find any answers here. With so many others are asking themselves the same question.
Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:55:00]
SCIUTTO: In today's Good Brief, rapper Bad Bunny's residency has come to an end, creating an economic boom in his native Puerto Rico. Bad Bunny chose
to skip the mainland U.S. on tour, instead stay on the island for a three- month residency. He said he feared ICE raids at his concerts if he took place -- if they took place here.
An estimated $200 million has been brought into the Puerto Rican economy so far. People came not only for the music, but for the local culture, staying
in hotels, eating at restaurants, even spending money on Bad Bunny-themed tours. Big economic boom there.
Thanks so much for joining us today. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. You've been watching "The Brief." Please do stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:00:00]
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