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The Brief with Jim Sciutto
CNN International: Zelenskyy Warns Russia Could Expand War; Trump Says Ukraine in Position to "Win All of Ukraine Back"; ICE Facility Attack in Dallas; Western Europe "Hypocritical" on Oil Says Hungarian FM; Zelenskyy Makes Plea at UNGA; Estonian President Denounces Russian Incursions into NATO Airspace; Estonian President Addresses Russia's War on Ukraine; Jimmy Kimmel Returns to TV. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired September 24, 2025 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in New York, and you're watching "The
Brief."
Just ahead this hour, President Zelenskyy warns the U.N. that Russia will expand the war further unless it's stopped. I speak to Poland's foreign
minister who says his country will do whatever it takes to protect its citizens. A sniper attack on a U.S. immigration enforcement facility leaves
two dead and two injured. And late-night host Jimmy Kimmel defends the role of free speech after returning from a suspension.
We begin with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy's speech at the U.N. General Assembly in which he argued that the world should stop Russian
expansion now, otherwise risk escalation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: Stopping Russia now is cheaper than wondering who will be the first to create a simple drone carrying a
nuclear warhead. So, we must use everything we have together to force the aggressor to stop. And only then do we have a real chance that these arms
race will not end in catastrophe for all of us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: President Zelenskyy added that the U.N. was failing to protect nations like his own, saying that international institutions were weak. His
speech comes a day after the U.S. President posted on social media that he now believes Ukraine can win back all of the territory taken and occupied
by Russia. That is a major change from Donald Trump's comments that Ukraine would have to cede territory in order to end the war. The White House says
the new stance is meant to pressure the Russian president.
At the United Nations General Assembly, Poland delivered Moscow a blunt warning, quote, "We will do whatever it takes to protect our citizens."
Earlier this month, Russian aircraft violated Poland's airspace. Of course, it's a NATO member, as well as that of Romania and Estonia, all within the
space of 10 days.
As many as 21 Russian drones entered Polish airspace two weeks ago. Romania scrambled its fighter jets just a few days later after a Russian drone
breached its airspace during an attack on neighboring Ukraine. And last Friday, Estonia saw three Russian fighter jets violate its airspace for
some 12 minutes.
A short time ago, Polish Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski told me that Russia was waging a hybrid war on multiple
fronts.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: The temperature, I think we can reliably say over your right now is quite hot, given concern -- your concern and the concern of other NATO
allies about Russian air incursions. You have said, others have said that if Russia violates airspace again, you might very well shoot down their
jets. Would Poland shoot down Russian jets if they violate Polish airspace?
RADOSLAW SIKORSKI, POLISH DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER AND FOREIGN MINISTER: Well, first of all, note that it's all one way. You haven't heard about
Polish or other NATO aircraft or drones violating Russia's airspace. So, it's clearly Russia conducting its hybrid war, which contains other forms
of assault, arsons, flammable parcels, assassinations, DDoS attacks, and so on.
And we think that they sent 21 drones into Poland deliberately, and we have proof for that. And that, of course, is a breach of our sovereignty. Of
course, we appreciate allies, but in the end, we will do whatever it takes to protect our citizens and their property. And there are procedures for
that, you know. Our air forces are in touch. But if pilots don't obey the commands of ground control, if they are intercepted and they don't obey
commands, well, I'm afraid we will do what it takes to protect our citizens.
SCIUTTO: OK. And that includes shooting at both unmanned and perhaps manned aircraft?
[18:05:00]
SIKORSKI: Well, we know what would happen if Cuban MiGs would fly over Florida, don't we?
SCIUTTO: Understood. Do you feel that Russia understands this message from Europe right now? Because Russia, as you know, has a history of testing the
limits and pushing when it doesn't meet resistance. Do you think NATO right now is showing sufficient resistance?
SIKORSKI: Well, it just learned that it has reached the limit.
SCIUTTO: President Trump said yesterday when he was asked if a NATO nation were to fire on a Russian aircraft, would he support it? And he said, yes.
Do you believe that Poland has the American president's full support in this?
SIKORSKI: We were very satisfied with the response of our allies. We invoked Article 4 at Brussels. Article 5, as you know, has only been
invoked once in defense of the United States after events in this city. And several allies have rallied around with deeds and actual assets, anti-
aircraft assets and fighter jets. And I hope Russia sees that there would be a unified NATO response.
SCIUTTO: President Trump described the war in Ukraine in quite different terms in his social media posting yesterday, saying that he now believes
Ukraine can win all the territory Russia has captured back. Significant change in your view?
SIKORSKI: Well, that would be, legally speaking, the easiest way of ending the war. Ukraine just reclaiming its internationally recognized border. And
also, it's the border recognized by Russia in their bilateral treaty.
And President Trump is famous for backing the winner. And I hope he sees from his intelligence briefings that Ukraine, having won the war at sea, is
actually now being very effective at hitting at Russian oil refineries. Ukraine has developed its own long-range drones, its own ballistic
missiles. And the Russian capacity to wage this war is declining.
SCIUTTO: There was a phrase, though, in his posting that stood out. And he said that Ukraine can win with the help of the European Union. He did not
say with the help of the European Union and the United States. Was that significant to you? Do you think he was signaling this is Europe's war?
SIKORSKI: I think President Trump is not giving himself justice for what he's doing. Ukraine -- the United States, is still providing intelligence
information. Starlink's 25,000 terminals paid for by Poland and effectors for Patriot missiles that defend Ukrainian cities and ATACMS and others.
But it's true that Europe, which is often accused in this country of being a freeloader, actually has delivered most of the financial assistance to
Ukraine and actually now delivers most of the military assistance as well, including in purchases from the United States. And we need to provide
Ukraine for the medium-term. Ukraine is planning for two to three years. And if Putin concludes that he cannot win this war, it's then that he will
make peace.
SCIUTTO: Do you believe that President Putin's view of the war might be changing? If President Trump's assessment has changed based on whatever
he's hearing from, including the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, do you have any indication that Putin no longer believes he's winning?
Because that's what I've been hearing from European leaders for some time.
SIKORSKI: Well, Vladimir Putin invaded on hyper-optimistic assumptions. Remember that there would be a coup in Kiev, that these are just misguided
Russians who will welcome his invasion, that it will be a three-day special military operation. Actually, he's been trying to conquer Donbass for 10
years now. Not exactly the definition of victory.
So, after 20 years in autocratic power, you only have yes-men around you. And, of course, they tell you what you want to hear. So, he might actually
not have the precise picture of what's going on. But I think the difficulties in his economy are real, and he's having to notice that.
SCIUTTO: As you know, the U.S. is conducting a review of its force deployments around the world, including in Europe. Are you concerned that
the U.S. will reduce its military presence in Europe?
SIKORSKI: Well, the U.S. has a very good deal in Poland. You have a Stasis of Forces Agreement by which we contribute $15,000 per annum to every U.S.
soldier in Poland. So, it's actually cheaper for you to keep them in Poland than to exercise them in Poland. And our president was in the White House
two weeks ago, and President Trump told him, they're staying, and if you want more, we might consider that. And I've already spoken about this to
the Department of War, and they're confirming it.
SCIUTTO: That's for Poland. How about for NATO?
[18:10:00]
SIKORSKI: That's for Poland. Well, troops should be where the threat is, and the threat is on the eastern flank.
SCIUTTO: When you look at the Baltic states, do you believe that they are getting the defense and support they need to head off the Russian threat?
Because, as you know, when you speak to Baltic leaders, they feel that they are particularly vulnerable to the Russian threat.
SIKORSKI: And they are. Remember, Russia deported 10 percent of their population into the Gulag in the 1940s, invaded them many times in the
past. So, they have every reason to fear a much more powerful neighbor. But we are doing air policing over the Baltic states, and Germany is building
up a tank brigade in Lithuania. So, I think Russia would be very foolish to attack NATO.
SCIUTTO: As you know, President Trump repeated during the UNGA that he wants to see Europe stop buying all Russian oil before he imposes
additional sanctions on Russia. I spoke to the Hungarian foreign minister earlier, and I asked him this question, and he said we can't. He said we're
dependent on Russian oil.
SIKORSKI: That's just not true. The oil can be brought by pipeline via Croatia from the Adriatic Sea. And Hungary had better do it, because
actually the Ukrainian army is bombing the Russian pipeline, including the pumping stations. And the commander of the unit, which is doing it rather
successfully, is actually an ethnic Hungarian -- an officer in the Ukrainian army.
SCIUTTO: So, do you believe this can change? Because to date, that reality hasn't changed. And as you know, Hungary has actually increased its imports
of Russian oil in recent years.
SIKORSKI: Despite urgent pleas from the rest of the E.U. But the prime minister of Hungary is a declared member of the MAGA movement. So, we are
hoping President Trump brings him -- brings this matter to his attention effectively.
SCIUTTO: But before we go, one of the messages from Trump's address to the UNGA seemed to be demanding that Europe and the world follow his domestic
policies, one of which is stopping immigration, the other of which is abandoning any green technologies or any environmental effort.
SIKORSKI: Well, in this sense, Europe is different from the United States. You know, you are a huge country. In some European countries, we already
have economies running on renewables only. For example, Norway on hydro and Denmark on wind power. We just don't have the space to do this kind of
large-scale oil and gas pumping that you can do in the United States.
And on migration, we've -- for example, Poland has built a big and beautiful fence, 440 kilometers on our border with Belarus, where they were
pushing migrants across our border. It's 98 percent effective. And we believe that for the freedom of movement inside Europe to be functional,
the perimeter has to be protected. In that sense, we agree with President Trump and we've already done it.
SCIUTTO: Do you leave the U.N. General Assembly more confident or less confident in the NATO alliance?
SIKORSKI: I -- you know, NATO was constructed for common defense. It's the most successful military alliance in history. The Taliban were sorted out
by NATO after we rallied around with the United States. But yes, we worry that a member of the Security Council, instead of being a guardian of
peace, is actually an aggressor. That was not the original idea of the United Nations.
SCIUTTO: Yes. You're talking of Russia, of course.
SIKORSKI: Yes.
SCIUTTO: Foreign Minister Sikorsky, we appreciate you taking the time.
SIKORSKI: My pleasure. Yes.
SCIUTTO: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Now, back to domestic news. The deadly shooting today at a Texas immigration facility. The acting director of ICE says the suspected gunman
who killed at least one detainee, wounded two others, was known to law enforcement. Homeland Security says the suspected killer killed himself
after opening fire on a Dallas ICE office from a nearby rooftop.
Sources have identified him as Joshua Jahn. The FBI says anti-ICE messages were written on at least one unspent shell found at the scene. See it
there. They say they're now investigating the attack as an act of targeted violence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE ROTHROCK, SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE, FBI DALLAS: The FBI is investigating this incident as an act of targeted violence. It is
unfortunately just the most recent example we've seen of targeted violence, to include here in North Texas, where back on July 4th, we saw a
coordinated attack carried out against an immigration detention center in Alvarado, Texas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[18:15:00]
SCIUTTO: Joining us now is Ed Lavandera. Ed, I suspect it's too early to define a motive definitively. But what evidence have they found other than
the anti-ICE scrawl on that shell?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Beyond that, we don't have much more. I don't have much clarity so far, but the building
you see behind me is where investigators have spent a great deal of the day today searching through evidence, searching through a car there at the base
of the building. It has a clear view into the ICE facility where this shooting happened this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAVANDERA (voice-over): Federal law enforcement officials described the gunman as a sniper who shot three immigrant detainees in ICE custody. The
attack happened just before 7:00 a.m. at an ICE field office in Dallas.
Denise Robleto was outside in a van waiting for her mother. She says her mother, an immigrant from Nicaragua, was checking in for an early
immigration appointment. She showed us a video, and we could hear slow, methodical gunfire, as many as seven shots. Robleto said she could hear
screams coming from the facility. Dallas police were called to the scene around 6:40 a.m. local time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's going to be a sniper on top of the roof.
CHIEF DANIEL CORNEAUX, DALLAS, TEXAS POLICE: DPD quickly was able to locate the shooter who was deceased.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): Law enforcement officials say the gunman died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound.
ROTHROCK: Early evidence that we've seen from rounds that were found near the suspected shooter contain messages that are anti-ICE in nature.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): FBI Director Kash Patel posted a photo of an anti- ICE message written on one of five unused bullets at the scene. Even though officials say this was an anti-immigration officer attack, no ICE officials
or members of law enforcement were hurt.
But DHS officials say one immigrant detainee was killed and two other detainees were wounded. The U.S. Department of Homeland Security says the
shooter fired, quote, "indiscriminately" at the ICE building and at a van. The shots fired, according to law enforcement, came from an elevated
position from a nearby building, similar to the shooting of Charlie Kirk just two weeks ago. And the political nature of the engravings also draw
comparisons to similar evidence found at the Kirk shooting scene.
This shooting took place at an immigration facility where detainees are processed before they are transferred to a detention center.
JOSHUE JOHNSON, ACTING DIRECTOR, ICE DALLAS FIELD OFFICE: This is the second time I've had to stand in front of you and talk about a shooter at
my facilities. And I think that the takeaway from all of this is that the rhetoric has to stop.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): Law enforcement and Republican officials blame the shootings on increasingly volatile political speech they say is coming from
the far-left. In a statement, DHS Secretary Kristi Noem said, this shooting must serve as a wake-up call to the far-left that their rhetoric about ICE
has consequences. Comparing ICE day in and day out to the Nazi Gestapo, the secret police and slave patrols has consequences.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): Look, in America, we disagree. That's fine. That's the democratic process. But your political opponents are not Nazis.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAVANDERA (on camera): So, Jim, as you've heard there from federal officials and Republican lawmakers quick to blame far-left rhetoric for all
of this, we should also point out we're continuing to gather as much information as we can on a possible motive and the suspect.
We do know -- you might see just over my shoulder a dark colored sedan beyond that black chain fence there. And we noticed that law enforcement
officers were going through that car rather extensively for several hours this afternoon. And when we arrived here, we saw a sign taped to the side
of the car, which read radioactive fallout from nuclear detonations have passed over these areas more than two times since 1951.
We do not know if that is the car of the suspect. We're trying to get clarity on all of that. But clearly, it's a piece of evidence that
investigators were -- took into their possession here earlier today. And if it does -- it is -- if it is something that belongs to the shooter, you
know, it might be one of those pieces of evidence that we kind of look at and try to, like, gather information or gather clues from what it might
mean from this person -- about this person's mindset that carried out the attack here this morning, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Yes, especially given the law enforcement says that the suspect was known to law enforcement prior. Ed Lavandera there in Dallas, thanks so
much.
Just ahead, my conversation with Hungary's top diplomat. His response to President Trump's demands that Europe stop importing Russian oil. And why
he is calling Western Europe hypocritical.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:20:00]
SCIUTTO: Russia's ongoing invasion of Ukraine very much central to the discussion here at the U.N. General Assembly this week. European leaders
tired, exhausted of more than three years of war, and fearful about Russia's incursions into NATO airspace. One sticking point, energy.
European nations have cut back on Russian oil, but some countries are still buying oil and others natural gas. President Donald Trump had strong words
for Europe's continued reliance on Russian energy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Think of it, they're funding the war against themselves. Who the hell ever heard of that one? In the event that Russia
is not ready to make a deal to end the war, then the United States is fully prepared to impose a very strong round of powerful tariffs, which would
stop the bloodshed, I believe, very quickly. But for those tariffs to be effective, European nations, all of you are gathered here right now, would
have to join us in adopting the exact same measures.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Just two European nations now make most of European purchases of Russian oil, Slovakia and Hungary. So, I asked the Hungarian foreign
minister, Peter Szijjarto, whether his country was willing to give up Russian energy.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PETER SZIJJARTO, HUNGARIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: The reality is that the Western European countries are so hypocritical. They are so hypocritical
because they say that they stopped buying oil from Russia, which is not true. They are still buying oil from Russia, but not directly, but through
certain Asian countries. If you look at the statistics, you will see the extent how much Western European countries have increased their oil imports
from certain Asian countries. And we all know that this is Russian oil.
Look, when you speak about Hungary, Hungary has a share of 2.2 percent when it comes to Russian oil exports, 2.2 percent. It means that there is 97.8
percent bought by someone else.
SCIUTTO: But to be fair, your imports, Hungary's imports of Russian oil have increased since 2021. So, it's going up. It's not going down.
SZIJJARTO: Yes. No, no. And it has a very simple reason, which is geography and physics. You know, we are a landlocked country. If we had a
seashore, we could very easily build a refinery and then the whole global market would be open to us. But we are a landlocked country.
So, our energy supplies is being determined pretty much by the neighbors and the neighbors of the neighbors.
[18:25:00]
And we have two pipelines coming to Hungary, one from Russia, one from the sea through Croatia. That given pipeline, unfortunately, is not able to
supply us in its entirety, us and the Slovaks. So, we are dependent on the Russian delivery. And if this Russian delivery is being cut, then
physically speaking, it is impossible to supply the country.
SCIUTTO: Do you believe that President Trump in setting this condition for further action, which by the way, he did not mention earlier in the year
when he was talking about additional penalties on Russia, do you believe that he is simply delaying a decision to impose new costs on Russia? In
other words, shifting the responsibility to Europe?
SZIJJARTO: No, I would phrase it in a different way. President Trump has won the election by saying America first. And he puts the interest of the
U.S., the interest of the American people as first. And I think that this position of his, that he expects Europe to take care about the European
security, be it defense spending, be it the war, be it whatever, falls in line with his strategy. So, I am absolutely not surprised.
SCIUTTO: But do you welcome it? Because the U.S. is still a member of NATO and traditionally through Republican and Democratic administrations, the
U.S. has seen Europe's security as vital to America's security.
SZIJJARTO: Well, U.S. is an absolutely reliable ally still. U.S. is the leading force of NATO, no question. The expectation of President Trump that
the Europeans should do more, I think is totally understandable from his perspective.
SCIUTTO: As you know, there's enormous concern in Europe now about air incursions by Russia, the drones over Poland, the MiGs over Estonia, and
then these drones we saw over civilian airports recently. Do you believe that Russia is testing NATO's defenses and resolve?
SZIJJARTO: Well, what I can tell you is that regardless of the intention, regardless of the way of thinking why this has happened, what has happened
is unacceptable. It's unacceptable, regardless of what was the way of thinking behind. And you know, that's why I think that with every other
day, you can't exclude that such events will take place.
And these events come forward with the risk of escalation. And from the neighborhood, it's very dangerous. It's very dangerous. So, that's why we
say that the only solution is ending this conflict, because as long as you don't end the conflict, with every other day, you have the risk of
escalation. And once -- you know, what we have to avoid for sure is a direct confrontation between a NATO member state and Russia. Because once
there's a direct confrontation between NATO member state, NATO as such, and Russia, that equals launching of the Third World War. And I hope that no
one wants that.
SCIUTTO: Do you believe it's a mistake then for NATO leaders and for President Trump to say that if Russian aircraft again violate NATO
airspace, they could be shot down?
SZIJJARTO: Well, this is very worrying for sure. If this happens, it can lead to a tragedy. But on the other hand, I want to also underline that
violating the airspace of another sovereign country is unacceptable. And you cannot exclude the consequences. So, therefore, it's better if it
doesn't happen.
SCIUTTO: In this country, as I'm sure you've watched, given someone who spent some time here as a young man, there is a debate about freedom of
expression and about government overreach. And sometimes people will make a comparison between America today and Hungary under Orban. American --
SZIJJARTO: Which is another Trump.
SCIUTTO: But with criticism. And to say that Trump is trying to do what they say Orban has done in Hungary, which is to aggregate power and stifle
dissent. Is that a fair criticism?
SZIJJARTO: No, absolutely not. So, you know, we have been in office for 16 years now. But -- and I think this fact brings people there to say that it
must be a dictatorship because you can't stay for 16 years in a power if it's not a dictatorship. But this is not true. We have won four continuous
elections with a huge margin. And this is because Hungary is a democracy because the people like what we are doing and we live up to the expectation
of the people.
This is democracy. You promise something on the election campaign. People say, yes, do it. Once you do it, you will be reelected. And this is
happening. This is happening.
SCIUTTO: Do you believe people of Hungary have full freedom of expression?
SZIJJARTO: Oh, absolutely.
SCIUTTO: Freedom of dissent? Political freedom?
SZIJJARTO: No question. I mean, you know, we are a freedom fighting nation. We have suffered 40 years under communist dictatorship. So, if any
government comes forward with restrictive measures regarding freedom and liberty in Hungary, it's over for that party and for that government. You
can be sure about that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: My conversation there with a Hungarian foreign minister coming up just after the break, the International Community urged to increase
collective pressure on Russia. The Estonian president says that recent Russian jet and drone incursions in a NATO member airspace are a reminder
of the threat and what's at stake. We'll hear more from him next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:30:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." I'm Jim Sciutto. And here are the international headlines we're watching today.
U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio met with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov on the sidelines of the U.N. General Assembly. The State
Department says that Rubio called on Russia to take meaningful steps to end its ongoing invasion of Ukraine. When asked by CNN how the meeting went,
Lavrov gave a thumbs up. The Russian foreign ministry says Lavrov told Rubio that the approaches of Kyiv and some European nations are prolonging
the conflict.
A drone launch from Yemen on southern Israel injured at least 22 people, according to Israeli officials. Iran-backed Houthis have repeatedly
launched drones and ballistic missiles at the city, but these launches are frequently intercepted. The militant group has not claimed responsibility
for this attack, but Houthi-run television is praising it.
Tropical Storm Ragasa has left a trail of destruction in its wake after carving through parts of China and Hong Kong. Water burst through the
windows at this Hong Kong hotel, sweeping people off their feet. Nearly 2 million people in southern China were forced to evacuate ahead of the
storm, which nearly wiped out a Taiwanese town after a dam broke there, unleashing some 68 million tons of water. At least 17 people were killed.
Back down to our top story at the U.N. General Assembly. Today, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy urged the International Community to stop
Russia from making war the new normal.
Also, at the U.N. today, the president of Estonia said that Russia's recent jet and drone incursions into the airspace of NATO allies are an urgent
reminder that the threat Russia poses is one affecting all of Europe. He called on the International Community to increase collective pressure on
Russia.
[18:35:00]
Estonia requested a meeting of the U.N. Security Council on Monday after it said Russian fighter jets violated its airspace over the Gulf of Finland,
calling that incursion a hostile act. Russia has denied it, says its jets were acting in accordance with international rules.
President Donald Trump said in a speech to the U.N. yesterday that NATO member countries should respond to Russian aggression and later when asked
about the possibility of shooting down jets, he said that, well, they have the right to do so if they violate their airspace.
I spoke to the president of Estonia, Alar Karis, about the growing threats not only to Europe from Russia but to the rest of the world.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: You said in your address a phrase that stood out to me that we're living in a world now where brutality prevails. What is working right now
to prevent that?
ALAR KARIS, ESTONIAN PRESIDENT: Well, one reason we are here is to prevent that, just to talk to other nations and to make sure, first of all, that
the United Nations works and with that we can also help to make our world better. As you see -- as you mentioned, I mean, there's brutality
everywhere. There are more than 40 conflicts in the world, and I don't think that U.N. has done this task very well. So, we need some changes.
Also, how we work and where we work and so forth.
SCIUTTO: As it relates to the war in Ukraine, which you call the greatest disturbance to the international order in the 80-year history of the U.N.,
you say now is the time for economic pressure. The U.S. has still not applied that additional pressure. Did you hear anything from President
Trump here to make you believe he's ready to apply the pressure?
KARIS: I guess if you listen to his talk and his statements, you realize there's some kind of shift happening. So, it's probably because President
Trump did understand that talking with Putin, it doesn't go anywhere. So, of course, talking with Zelenskyy, he probably understood that I need to do
something more.
And all the senators from U.S. were also in Estonia and we talked about the sanctions and they also -- the U.N. -- sorry, Europe is going to support
this, as I said, of course, yes. So, we should stick together and put these sanctions to work.
SCIUTTO: The phrase in President Trump's social media post stood out to me that Ukraine can win with the help of the European Union. He didn't say
with the help of the E.U. and the U.S. Do you believe he is handing you the football, as they say?
KARIS: Well, the football has also been there. I mean, because the European Union and European countries have been supporting Ukraine. It's
not only politically and humanitarian aid, but also militarily. So -- and of course, we probably should have started earlier. More pressure on
Russia. But nevertheless, it's not late anymore. So, it's not late still. So, we should work together.
SCIUTTO: Work together. But do you believe the U.S. will work together with you or that President Trump is saying it is up to you? Europe, it's
your problem?
KARIS: No, I don't think it's only up to you. Up to Europe. It's up to us. It's up to the Western world. It's not the war against Ukraine or against
Europe, it's against the Western world. It's against our beliefs and so forth. So, it also matters for the United States and the Global Community
in general.
SCIUTTO: Estonia is very close to Russia. It is vulnerable to Russia. Estonian leaders have talked for some time about increasing defense from
the Russian threat. Can you describe to me the feeling in Estonia as armed Russian jets flew into your territory? Was it a shock?
KARIS: No, not really, because it's not the first time. Of course, there was 10 minutes in our territory. But there has been -- somebody has counted
from 2003, there are more than 83 this kind of violations. So, now, we've probably decided it's enough, it's enough. So, we should do something. And
if you combine this also with drone attacks to Poland and Romania, also in the Shadow Fleet, I mean, going up and down on the Baltic Sea, we should
probably decide why the International Community should also know what's happening, first of all, and second, to get some support.
SCIUTTO: Do you envision that it's a genuine possibility that NATO aircraft might engage Russian aircraft and shoot them down if they were to
violate airspace again?
[18:40:00]
KARIS: I mean, what we should do just to prevent this kind of things, it's not to decide what do we do, because every occasion is different. I mean,
it's different whether it's on sea, it's different if it's on land. So -- but what I have to do is to prevent this kind of violations. And this was
also putting this on the agenda of the Security Council.
SCIUTTO: Another issue of apparent disagreement between the U.S. and its European allies is on not just climate change policy, but the very
existence of climate change, because President Trump in his address, he called it the greatest con, questioning whether the science is real. What
was your reaction to hearing those words?
KARIS: Well, President Trump has said it before, it's not -- again, it's not first time. But me being as a former scientist, I look at it maybe in a
different way. I mean, we should develop these new technologies. And this probably does help to make some changes.
SCIUTTO: What helps to make some changes?
KARIS: To develop new technologies. I mean, clean technologies and so forth.
SCIUTTO: But he's saying that that's all a waste of money.
KARIS: Well, it's President Trump's opinion, but I also have an opinion. So, but we always see that there are changes in climate. And it's not a
question of weather, but it's a question of climate. And if you talk to especially small islands in the Pacific Ocean. So, they have completely
different opinions. So, we know in real life what's happening.
SCIUTTO: Yes, we heard those words from the, for instance, the Indonesian leader talking about the threat.
KARIS: Yes.
SCIUTTO: In all my visits to Estonia, and I've been able to visit there a number of times, it's always impressed me how advanced Estonia is
technologically. And you spoke as other -- some other leaders, including Zelenskyy, spoke about the advance of artificial intelligence and the need
for some kind of guardrails for that technology. What kind of cooperation is necessary today?
KARIS: Well, of course, I mean, you need some guidelines, you need some regulations, because -- and then again, every technology has its limits.
So, it doesn't develop forever. So, that means, because my background is biotechnology, it happened also in '70s and '80s. That biotechnology was
saying, people are very afraid, we're going to clone all people and so forth.
But you see, I mean, (INAUDIBLE) regulations, rules, laws, and also technology, as we see, has its limits. So, we have to use the best of these
technologies, and the same applies to A.I. So -- and we have to use it wisely. That's why we in Estonia started a new program. That means to teach
teachers and students how to use this A.I. at schools, at home, and in public services.
SCIUTTO: Final question, do you leave New York following this meeting with more confidence in America's relationship with NATO and with Europe, or do
you leave with questions about the strength of that relationship?
KARIS: I mean, there are always questions, but I do believe, because as I mentioned several times before, we should stick together. And for us,
transatlantic collaboration is very important, and vice versa. I mean, it's also important for the U.S. So, we should collaborate more closely. So, I
do believe that things are getting better.
SCIUTTO: President Karis, thanks so much for joining. We appreciate it.
KARIS: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Our conversation with the president of Estonia there. Still to come, Jimmy Kimmel is back, his fans are thrilled. The president, not so
much. But it may be the start of a broader debate on free speech in this country. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:45:00]
SCIUTTO: Comedian Jimmy Kimmel scored loud cheers and a standing ovation in his return to late-night television.
ABC, of course, had benched him last week after President Trump and his allies claimed that Kimmel's comments following the death of conservative
activist Charlie Kirk were offensive. In his opening monologue, Kimmel joked about Donald Trump, of course, but he also got serious about attacks
on free speech.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST, "JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE!": The president of the United States made it very clear he wants to see me and the hundreds of people who
work here fired from our jobs. Our leader celebrates Americans losing their livelihoods because he can't take a joke. He was -- he's gunning for our
journalists, too. He's suing them. He's bullying them. They want to pick and choose what the news is. I know that's not as interesting as muzzling a
comedian, but it's so important to have a free press.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Joining us now live from Los Angeles, Elizabeth Wagmeister. And wow, I mean, Trump said he had bad ratings. He certainly had great ratings
last night.
ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: He did. So, we just got the ratings in from ABC. And these are massive ratings for "Jimmy
Kimmel Live!" More than 6.3 million people tuned in live last night. To put this into perspective, Jim, while "Jimmy Kimmel Live!" usually averages
under 2 million viewers per night and pretty far under 2 million viewers per night.
So, this is more than three times its average ratings. It has broken ratings records for the past decade, at least, for "Jimmy Kimmel Live!" And
also, I have to point out, with Nextar and Sinclair pulling the show and refusing to air it last night, that means that only about 80 percent of the
country had access to watches. So, this is 6.3 million viewers, with more than 20 percent of Americans unable to watch the show live last night.
SCIUTTO: So, what happens with Sinclair and Nextar, the two companies that own so many of those stations? Is it clear that he's never going back on
their stations or might there still be a compromise?
WAGMEISTER: Oh, there can absolutely still be a compromise. In fact, today we did hear from Nextar, and I want to read you part of their statement,
Jim. They said that Nextar is continuing to evaluate the status of Jimmy Kimmel Live on our ABC affiliate local television stations. They do say
that the show will continue to be preempted while they're evaluating it, but they say, we are engaged in productive discussions with executives at
the Walt Disney Company with a focus on ensuring that the program reflects and respects the diverse interests of the communities we serve.
Key word there that I am latching on to is productive discussions with Disney executives. They did not have to release a statement today, but they
did. They chose to let the public know and to let the media know that the conversations are productive. So, to me, reading the tea leaves a bit, that
would indicate that there is some progress on that front.
And look, of course, Disney wants all Americans to be able to access the show live on their local stations. But the way that late-night TV, the way
that the landscape is changing, not that many people tune in live anyway. It's all relative. But again, we're typically talking under 2 million
people. And when you have 15 million on YouTube and it's going viral all across social media, the show is being seen. But of course, you have
advertising dollars on the line. You have station agreements with each of these affiliates. So, it's very important that they get Nexstar and
Sinclair back. And that's what I hear. Of course, Disney is hopeful will happen.
[18:50:00]
SCIUTTO: Yes, I didn't watch it live last night. I was already sleeping. So, I watched it in one of the million ways you can get these things later.
WAGMEISTER: I stayed up for you, Jim. OK, I stayed up till midnight to watch it.
SCIUTTO: That's why you do the hard reporting. Elizabeth Wagmeister, thanks so much.
We do have some news just into CNN. Given the topic of discussion earlier in this broadcast, a Danish airport says it has closed its airspace after
it detected drones flying nearby. At least three inbound flights were redirected. That's according to Flightradar24. Not clear where those drones
came from, who's controlling them, what their purpose is. But we should note this is the second time this week that an airport in Denmark has been
forced to close due to drones.
Europe has been on alert since Russian drones violated NATO airspace earlier this month, as well as Russian fighter aircraft over Estonia.
Coming up on "The Brief," a former California governor joining forces with a former British prime minister in the flight ongoing against climate
change. Arnold Schwarzenegger and Tony Blair together for Climate Week here in New York right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." Checking the action now on Wall Street. U.S. stocks fell for a second straight session, led by declines in
tech. However, Intel shares rose an additional 6.5 percent. A Bloomberg report says the struggling chip company is seeking an investment now from
Apple. It is already receiving a $5 billion investment from rival chip maker NVIDIA. The U.S. government has also taken its own 10 percent stake
in the firm.
When President Trump spoke to the U.N. on Tuesday, he claimed climate change is a hoax, a con job, in his words. Of course, an overwhelming
majority of scientists and the data disagree. It's also a lonely position among world leaders.
Just hours ago, former British Prime Minister Tony Blair, former California governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, himself a Republican like Trump, spoke
together as part of New York's Climate Week. The topic, leadership in an age of climate disruption. CNN Anchor Elex Michaelson asked them about
Trump's comments.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER, ACTOR AND FORMER GOVERNOR OF CALIFORNIA: The bottom line is, is that he just never believed in it. And to me, I said to myself,
OK, then I cannot really go and be on his team because I'm a big believer that we have to do something about reducing pollution and we have to do
something about, you know, having people die, 7 million people a year die.
And so, I felt very strongly about what the way I was thinking. And I totally understand that not everyone has to think like me. So -- but what
is important is that we let people know, OK, so that's how our president feels, but that doesn't mean we should stop everything, because so many
people say, oh, my God, if America doesn't move forward, then does it make any sense to move forward at all? It's nonsense, because the fact of the
matter is that every state in the United States has its own environmental laws.
[18:55:00]
TONY BLAIR, FORMER BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: We've got to focus on what we can actually do. And if you -- you see where I think we've been at risk in
the climate argument is not in persuading people that there's a real problem, because I think most people accept -- they can see that.
ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN ANCHOR: President Trump doesn't.
BLAIR: Well, people are going to take different views of it. But one thing I think that's really important is to accept that a lot of the time we've
been making this argument on climate, we've not been making in a way that's likely to persuade people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Thanks so much for your company today. I'm Jim Sciutto in New York. You've been watching "The Brief." Please do stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:00:00]
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