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The Brief with Jim Sciutto
CNN International: IDF Says Bodies of Four Hostages Released; Trump Says Phase Two of Gaza Ceasefire Deal Underway; Limited Aid Entering Gaza; Trump: Won't Be Generous to Argentina if Milei Loses; Trump Awards Presidential Medal of Freedom to Charlie Kirk; Trump Threatens Retaliation Over China's Soybean Boycott; Six Killed After U.S. Strikes Boat Off Venezuela. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired October 14, 2025 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Jim Sciutto in Washington, and you're watching "The Brief."
Just ahead this hour, Hamas turns over the bodies of four more Israeli hostages. As President Trump warns the group to disarm. The president says,
a U.S. bailout of Argentina could depend on the country's support for Javier malaise reforms. And England punched their ticket to the next World
Cup. And Portugal's Cristiano Ronaldo scores a record 30 41st goal in qualifiers.
We begin with joy and pain in Israel. While some families celebrate the return of the last living hostages, others are still waiting for Hamas to
return the bodies of their loved ones. Hamas today handed over the remains of four hostages to the red Cross after turning over four others on Monday.
The bodies of 20 more remain behind in Gaza.
Under its agreement with Israel, Hamas has to release all hostages, living and dead within 72 hours of the ceasefire. But Israel itself has raised
doubts that Hamas can find and retrieve all the bodies after two years of devastating war and all that destruction you see there.
Negotiations are underway in Egypt on the next stages of the ceasefire, this according to Israeli sources. However, questions still remain about
whether Hamas will lay down its arms. Other questions as well about the path to Palestinian statehood. Here's President Trump earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: And if they don't disarm, we will disarm them. And it'll happen quickly and perhaps violently you say. But they will
disarm. Do you understand me?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. You say --
TRUMP: Because you always -- everyone says, oh, well they won't disarm. They will disarm. And I spoke to Hamas and I said, you're going to disarm,
right? Yes, sir. We're going to disarm. That's what they told me. They will disarm or we will disarm them. Got it?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Joining me now, CNN Political and Global Affairs Analyst Barak Ravid. You know, Barak listening to the president there saying, Hamas will
disarm or we -- I don't know if he means the U.S. military or Israel or granting Israel the ability to continue military operations, but it sounds
like he's holding out the possibility of resuming military operations if Hamas does not abide by that part of the agreement.
BARAK RAVID, CNN POLITICAL AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT, AXIOS: Well, I think there's another option and I, what
Trump is talking about is about phase two of this deal to end the war in Gaza. Phase one is the release of hostages, release of Palestinian
prisoners, ending the -- end the ceasefire. But stage two, part of it, is a new security force, an international stabilization force for Gaza, that it
will be partly Palestinian soldiers who've been training in Egypt for months now, 5,000 of them. Plus, troops from Arab countries, Muslim
countries and European countries.
And one of the missions of that force will be to Demilitarize Gaza. I think that during the negotiations, one of the things Hamas told the U.S., and
Trump is right when he says that, is that it is ready to give up on its heavy weapons, which means missiles, rockets, anti-tank weapons, attack
tunnels. If that's the case, you are looking at a very, very, very different Hamas. This is not the military organization that it was before.
Hamas says we want to keep our guns for self-defense, but we're ready to give up on our heavy weapons. Put them in storage with this international
stabilization force, or with a Palestinian force or with the Egyptians, and only stay with our guns. If that's the case, still, it doesn't mean that
Hamas fully demilitarize, but it's a very, very, very different situation than it is right now.
SCIUTTO: No question. I mean, with much less capability of striking Israel, for instance. What about the other issues that form part of this
next phase of the agreement, including governance of Gaza and what form that takes and what role, if any, Hamas were to have in that, as well as
other outstanding questions about the future of Palestinian statehood?
RAVID: Well, I think that's all on paper at the moment. I think it's going to take quite some time until you, we'll see some sort of a significant
development. It'll take, at least in my opinion, at least two, three months until we start seeing something tangible.
[18:05:00]
And this is because right now we are still in the phase of implementation of phase one. The hostages -- the bodies of the hostages are still coming
out. Today there was almost, almost a huge crisis around the fact that Hamas refused until 10:00 p.m. local time to give back any bodies of
hostages in clear violation of the deal.
So, I think we're still -- and that got solved, obviously, but we're still in a very sensitive and initial moments of implementation of this
agreement.
SCIUTTO: Yes. And we saw that in earlier agreements, earlier in the year, for instance, where first phase happens, but the other ones don't follow.
As you heard, Trump definitively declared the war is over. Netanyahu has said the military campaign is not over. And I wonder if you see the
possibility here where Israel maintains the right, in effect, to carry out military strikes in Gaza if it ceases fit. I'm thinking, for instance, of
how the ceasefire has worked in Lebanon, right? I mean, ceasefire, yes, except when Israel strikes.
RAVID: Yes. Well, in Lebanon it just did not work. That's the -- you know, when you look at the ceasefire agreement in Lebanon and when you look at
the side letter, the secret side letter, the Biden administration gave Israel about supporting -- you know, theoretically supporting further
strikes in Lebanon in case there is a threat, when you read how it's -- that -- when you read the language, you see that this is not what Israel is
doing in the last few months in Lebanon.
Last few months in Lebanon, Israel is attacking almost everything it wants. When the agreement was that there's a mechanism, you need to go to the
mechanism, then the mechanism goes to the Lebanese army, and if the Lebanese army doesn't do anything, then you take action. This is not really
what's been happening in Lebanon.
And this is one of the lessons of the Trump administration, that it does not want to replicate what, what happened in Lebanon. It doesn't want the
Lebanon scenario in Gaza. Meaning that when Trump says the war is over, the bar for Israel to resume strikes in Gaza, not to mention, to resume a
ground operation in Gaza, the bar is much, much higher than it is in Lebanon.
And secondly, once this international stability force will go into Gaza, Israel's freedom of operation will be -- will decrease significantly,
because on the ground you'll have soldiers from Egypt, from Jordan, from the UAE, from Italy, from other countries. It's much harder to operate when
that's a situation.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Far different from that limited U.N. presence we've seen in years past and in Southern Lebanon, for instance. Barak Ravid, thanks so
much for walking us through it.
RAVID: Thank you. Thanks.
SCIUTTO: NGOs say they are hoping the Gaza ceasefire will mean more aid getting into the territory, under the people who need it. But Israel has
told the United Nations it will instead cut back, saying Hamas has not yet turned over enough remains of Israeli hostages. According to Reuters,
Israel will only allow 300 aid trucks in on Wednesday. That's half the agreed number and far below what we hear from aid groups is necessary. CNN
has not been able to independently verify that figure.
At the same time, displaced Palestinians are slowly making their way back to their homes, their neighborhoods, or what's left of them? Mosab Abu Toha
is a poet from Gaza who won Pulitz Surprise for his essays in the New Yorker earlier this year. He's also the author of "Forest of Noise," and he
joins me now. Thanks so much for taking the time to join us.
MOSAB ABU TOHA, AUTHOR, "FOREST OF NOISE" AND PULITZER PRIZE WINNER: Thank you so much for having me.
SCIUTTO: First, if I could ask you like so many other Palestinians, you've suffered immense personal loss during this war and you've expressed the
pain of that loss through your work. Tell us what your reaction is to this ceasefire. Do you have hope now that the worst is behind you?
ABU TOHA: Thank you so much again. It is really very disappointment -- disappointing to hear the Israeli concerns and the word concerns about the
bodies, the remains of the Israeli hostages who haven't been turned over. No one -- I'm personally shocked that no one is voicing any concern, any
heartbreak over the hundreds of Palestinians whose bodies have disappeared, whose bodies remained under the rubble until today, no one is talking about
returning the bodies of the Palestinian hostages like Dr. Adnan al-Bursh, who was kidnapped from Al-Awda Hospital in North Gaza in December, 2024,
and he died in Ofer Prison in April, 2025.
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I don't hear anyone talking about Dr. Adnan al-Bursh. Where is his body? No one's talking about returning the bodies of these Palestinian people.
I mean, it is true that the Israeli bombs stopped falling on the Palestinian people in Gaza, but the Israeli military is still present in
much of the Gaza Strip. Today, seven people in Gaza were killed in Khan Younis in Shuja'iyya neighborhood, and when Israeli airstrikes were carried
against them as they were checking on their houses. And you mentioned that Palestinians were returning to their houses and neighborhoods, but
unfortunately, Jim, there's nothing that is called houses anymore, nothing that's called neighborhoods.
Yesterday, I watched a video. A neighbor of mine sent me a video from Beit Lahia. And I'm really heartbroken. I wish I didn't see this video. The
entire city is leveled to the ground.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
ABU TOHA: And no one is talking about rebuilding or even making available any kind of life with a dignity for the Palestinian people. While the whole
world and Israel is threatening to resume, it's not airstrikes as you mentioned, but its massacres against the Palestinian people, if the bodies
of some Israeli hostages were not returned. So, what does that mean? Are they going to continue killing more and more people? What about the bodies
of the Palestinians?
And I -- a few days ago, I posted about Israel's killing of a second cousin of mine, Muhammad Ayman Abu Toha, who was killed with his wife and their
four children. The youngest was two years old on September 25th of this year, just three weeks ago. The bodies of the four children are still under
the rubble. So, is there anyone who is going to threaten Israel if they are not going to let in heavy equipment to dig through the rubble and retrieve
the bodies and bury them?
SCIUTTO: I understand. Listen, I understand, and particularly because you have personal loss here. You've lost members of your family and may not be
able to retrieve their bodies. I do want to ask you, though, do you see hope here for a change to the lives of people in Gaza, that if this deal
holds together, that if, for instance, you heard us talking prior to this interview about an international security force? Do you have hope that, for
instance, this international security force will be able to provide security that -- and prevent further Israeli military action?
ABU TOHA: I mean, I don't know what kind of deal this is when the Palestinian people are not involved in drafting it. I don't know what you
mean by peace, but I don't know what you mean by hope. Hope is not a word, it is an action. And I have never -- I've not seen any action that has been
taken to make sure that the Palestinian people live in peace and freedom on their own then.
Does this peace deal talk about the restoration of the Palestinian people's right to self-determination and freedom? Does it talk about the biggest
issues for the Palestinian people, the right to return, the establishment of a Palestinian State? Does it mention the -- I mean, holding Israel
accountable for the hundreds of war crimes?
I mean, I just mentioned my second cousin who was killed three weeks ago. I didn't -- I mean, I can continue talking about my loved ones, my father-in-
law who was killed while trying to get aid from the Zikim aid crossing. On August 3rd, the 30 members of my family were killed in October 2023. I
mean, if Israel is not held accountable for its war crimes, where is hope? Where is peace?
SCIUTTO: Yes. Well, listen, I'm not asking you to manufacture false hope, I'm just asking if you see a path to hope given that the guns have stopped
firing for now, right? And there at least -- there's a long way to go, but as you know, part of the agreement is to change the administration of Gaza,
it's to disarm Hamas. Do you see those as positive developments?
ABU TOHA: I mean, no one on earth has the right, you know, to dictate to the Palestinian people who should be leading them and how this should be
possible. I mean, we are a people with agency. We are one of the most educated people on earth. So, we have so many talented people who Israel
put behind the bars. And with -- whether in the West Bank or the Gaza Strip. So, we do have people who can lead us.
And there should be elections. And we as Palestinian people should have the right to elect our leaders. And Israel should stop occupying more and more
of our land. And it should stop imprisoning the people who are potential leaders for the Palestinian people.
And by the way, if you want to talk about hope and peace, I think that the whole world not only should speak about, but also take action to ensure
that the Palestinian people have security, just as the Israeli people have security. They have an army. We do not have an army. I need to be protected
on my homeland.
[18:15:00]
We see the Israeli settlers in the West Bank, killing Palestinian people in their villages. And when the Palestinian people try to defend themselves,
the Israeli army comes and arrests and kills the Palestinian indigenous in the West Bank.
So, I want to see hope, but I want to see action being taken to ensure that this hope is real. And if anyone wants to talk about, you know, freedom and
peace for the Palestinian people, the Palestinian people should be the ones who dictate how they want to live.
SCIUTTO: Mosab Abu Toha, we appreciate you joining. Thanks so much.
ABU TOHA: Thank you for having me.
SCIUTTO: Well, President Trump suggests a financial lifeline for Argentina may depend on its midterm election results. Argentina's president, Javier
Milei, went to the White House to discuss the $20 billion bailout. Trump said he wants to see Milei's economic reforms put in place.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'm with this man because his philosophy is correct. And he may win and he may not win, but I think he's going to win. And if he wins, we're
staying with him. And if he doesn't win, we're gone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Argentina's legislative elections take place October 26. And, Kristen, when I listen to the president there, it sounds like he's saying
Argentinian people, if you don't vote for my guy, you're not getting the money. Am I reading that correctly?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly what he was saying. I mean, he made that pretty clear. He said, again, this is
our guy. And Bessent, the secretary of treasury, essentially said that this money is linked to specific policies that are linked to Milei. So, this
money is dependent on the fact that Milei win and that there's not going to be this huge influx, which we know is $20 billion, if Milei does not win.
So, yes, that's exactly what President Trump was saying.
And look, there's been a lot of political pushback about this infusion into the Argentinian economy, this bailout, given what's happening here on the
ground. A couple of things. One, the fact that the federal government here is completely shut down, and yet, we're bailing out a foreign government.
But on top of that, what we've seen when it comes to farmers, when it comes to exports, one of the things specifically was some blowback we heard from
farmers, because China has been buying from Argentine farmers instead of U.S. farmers when it comes to soybeans. That was an interesting point
during all of this.
President Trump was asked specifically about that, if China was trying to drive a wedge in between U.S. and Argentina. And he said, yes, they
probably are. It's natural. He said he didn't think that Argentina should be doing any business with China, but especially when it came to military,
not talking about farming, which is something that we, of course, have reported is happening, but talking specifically about military.
So, we're trying to get some details there as to what kind of business the U.S. is now doing with Argentina. If there is a military component of that,
that we have not seen, or if there is something that he is referring to specifically. But look, the entire meeting there was a pretty eye-opening
news-making event when it came to foreign policy. This specifically, he didn't really defend in terms of being asked why it was America first or
why he was doing this. He essentially just doubled down on the words you used, which was it's a financial philosophy that he stands by.
SCIUTTO: Kristen Holmes, and quite a difference in the way, for instance, he's treating Brazil, right, that is not doing domestically what he wants,
economic punishment, rewarding Argentina, if the Argentinian people vote the right way. Kristen Holmes at the White House, thanks so much.
Also, at the White House, President Trump posthumously awarded the country's highest civilian honor, the Presidential Medal of Freedom, to the
late Charlie Kirk, the Turning Point USA founder, you'll remember, was assassinated while speaking at Utah Valley University just last month.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We hold his memory in our hearts forever. Every single day of this administration, we will continue to carry out the mission for which he
lived, and he really did. He lived for this country. He lived for his wife and his family, but he lived for this country too. In Charlie's honor, we
will continue like we have been to fight, fight, fight, and to win, win, win. We're going to win so much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: The ceremony coincided with what would have been Kirk's 32nd birthday. Still ahead, uncertainty over the U.S.-China trade relationship
leads to fresh volatility on Wall Street, the latest on the trade tensions, and what may come next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:20:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back. In today's Business Breakout, a volatile day on Wall Street. U.S. stocks posted sharp losses earlier in the session on
worsening trade tensions between the U.S. and China, but they were able to cut their losses. The Dow actually finished the session higher.
In Washington today, the International Monetary Fund and World Bank Group kicked off their annual meetings. I'll be there later this week. The IMF is
warning of complacent markets in the face of rising geopolitical, economic, and financial risks. Even though higher tariffs have not yet significantly
weakened global growth, businesses are uneasy about the future, when that might happen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PIERRE-OLIVIER GOURINCHAS, CHIEF ECONOMIST, IMF: We have a boom in the tech sector. So, we're seeing investment overall doing quite well,
especially in the U.S. But if you leave that aside and you look at investment outside of the tech sector, it's actually declining compared to
last year. And that reflects in part the uncertainty that many businesses are facing when they're thinking about the future and scaling down their
investment plans. So, that uncertainty is already weighing on the outlook.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Checking now on some of today's other business headlines, financial giants J.P. Morgan, Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, and Wells Fargo all
reported better-than-expected earnings Tuesday. Buoyant financial markets and a rise in corporate deal making and lending all helped boost their
results.
J.P. Morgan's CEO Jamie Dimon, however, says he's seeing some assets in bubble territory now. He's also worried about early signs of excessive
corporate borrowing. J.P. Morgan is boosting its reserves for potential loan losses, a sign the firm is concerned about a weakening economy.
U.S. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent says the U.S. government shutdown is beginning to affect the real economy after two weeks. Democrats and
Republicans remain far apart on any agreement to fund the government. The White House Budget Office says it will ride out the crisis by continuing
layoffs and cutting federal programs, something that began long before the shutdown.
The parent company of ChatGPT and the world's largest retailer are now joining forces. Walmart and OpenAI have announced a new partnership that
will allow customers to buy products using ChatGPT's instant checkout feature. OpenAI has similar deals with Etsy and Shopify.
Turning now to the latest in the U.S.-China trade battle. President Trump warned late Tuesday the U.S. may soon punish China for its refusal to buy
American soybeans. As retribution, he suggests the U.S. stop buying Chinese cooking oil. Also, today, China announced it is sanctioning five U.S.
subsidiaries of a major South Korean shipbuilding firm. The U.S. and China began charging port fees on each other's vessels, and President Trump's new
tariffs on imported lumber, furniture, and kitchen cabinets kicked in Tuesday. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent is accusing China of trying to
weaken the global economy to, quote, "pull everybody else down with them."
All right. so what's going on? What's next? Myron Brilliant joins me now, senior counselor at DGA-Albright Stonebridge Group, former executive vice
president and head of international affairs at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. Good to have you back.
[18:25:00]
So, there was a truce, that truce appears to be over, and I wonder who you think has the stronger hand here, because some of the moves China is
taking, I mean, stopping buying soybeans, that hurts American farmers, the rare earths restrictions are hurting a whole host of U.S. companies. Is any
of the American pushback equal to that leverage?
MYRON BRILLIANT, SENIOR COUNSELOR, DGA-ALBRIGHT STONEBRIDGE GROUP AND FORMER EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, U.S. CHAMBER OF COMMERCE: So, Jim, we
started seeing an escalation in late September, when the Department of Commerce included a much broader range of Chinese companies on the empty
list. China then responds. So, we're in this tit-for-tat period. And now, of course, today, we see this with the soybeans, and with the continuation
of port fees now on both sides.
So, I think we're in a difficult time. It's like a death by a thousand cuts. None of these cuts in isolation are a big challenge, but collectively
what we've seen is pragmatism put to the side and now a drift between China and the United States. Neither side wants to blink. The president coming
off his successful trip to the Middle East is in no interest of blinking with the Chinese. He's demanding China make progress on fentanyl and rare
earths, and President Xi has shown no inclination.
So, we've got this challenge because we've only got a few weeks before APEC, and where the leaders presumably would meet, and that's now a big if.
SCIUTTO: He's raised that. But we have seen this president, he likes to meet with world leaders, right, particularly of U.S. adversaries. We saw
that with Putin in Alaska. We saw that three times in the first term with Kim Jong-un, and none of those meetings actually moved those guys off their
hard positions. But it seems that Trump imagines that a face-to-face meeting, he could make some sort of deal with China. Is that a realistic
expectation?
BRILLIANT: Well, he's coming off what he considers to be a huge, significant foreign policy win in the Middle East. There's a long way to go
after the ceasefire, after the release of the hostages, but a big win, right? So, now he figures to have maybe a chance to get a win in the Middle
East, sorry, in Europe, and potentially in China. Let's see what happens.
SCIUTTO: But those things -- the fact is those things aren't connected, right?
BRILLIANT: Let me just say this. President Xi is, you know, in charge of the second largest economy in the world. He wants the two presidents to
have to meet eye-to-eye on what they can get done. There's no big deal to be had in the next few weeks, but there's still a window of opportunity to
pull back some of this escalation that's happened over the last two weeks and find common ground on a narrow set of issues. That would be progress.
The problem is we're now, you know, a couple weeks out from the meetings in APEC, which is over that October 30th weekend, and very limited window. And
right now, the Chinese are forestalling talks at the highest level. Secretary of Treasury Bessent does not seem yet to be in talks with his
counterpart in China.
SCIUTTO: Right.
BRILLIANT: You have to have the ground settled before the two leaders can meet.
SCIUTTO: No question. Let me ask you this. From the businesses you talk to, U.S. businesses, what level of concern is there that this is going to
hurt their bottom line? I remember back in the early stages of the rare earths restrictions a whole host of U.S. companies, defense in particular,
were saying if we don't have these -- you know, some particular rare earths, we can't make what we make, right? Are we back into that kind of
situation?
BRILLIANT: Well, short-term we've got a risk, right? You mentioned the defense sector, also I would add the industrial sector. And certainly,
technology companies are at risk because they're caught in the tit-for-tat. There's already asymmetrical retaliation by the Chinese. You've seen this
in the kinds of investigations they've launched over our tech companies. So, there is risk for U.S. companies.
We've limited some of that exposure, but the supply chains that we're talking about take time to develop, whether you're talking about rare
earths or in other areas, right? So, we're still dependent in some ways on China. That's the leverage China has, particularly on rare earths, but even
in solar and some kind of solar equipment and other areas, we've got risk.
But China has risk, too. They have a huge surplus with the United States. They've got a big risk. They can't make it up overnight in Southeast Asia
and Latin America. They are depending on more reliance on those markets, but that can't happen overnight. Each side needs to calibrate how much risk
they're willing to have. For U.S. companies, there's a lot of volatility, a lot of uncertainty. There's still potential for price inflation, and, of
course, we're concerned about job loss in the market.
SCIUTTO: Yes, yes.
BRILLIANT: So, both sides should try to figure out where they can find common ground. I don't expect President Trump to blink. He hasn't blinked,
and he won't blink.
SCIUTTO: We'll see who blinks first or if they decide to blink together. Myron Brilliant, thanks so much for joining. And I'll have more news right
after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:30:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." I'm Jim Sciutto, and here are the international headlines we're watching today.
Hamas has returned the remains of four more hostages to the Red Cross. The bodies of 20 others remain in Gaza. Four had already been handed over on
Monday. Under its agreement with Israel, Hamas has to release all hostages, living and dead, within 72 hours of the ceasefire. Israel, though, has
raised doubts that Hamas can fulfill that part of the agreement. The U.N. says it received a warning from Israeli officials that aid into Gaza would
be limited until all the bodies are returned.
An army commander says the military has now taken power in Madagascar. This follows a vote by the National Assembly to impeach the president. He was
forced to flee the country after two weeks of more Gen Z-led protests, which then saw major defections in the army. The military says it is now
dissolving all institutions except for the National Assembly. It's one of a series of Gen Z protests around the world.
Dramatic scenes in Chicago after federal agents were involved in an apparent car crash. That, according to the CNN affiliate there, WLS. A
crowd formed and a chemical agent was deployed in the city's east side. WLS reported some in the crowd throwing rocks. Quite a scene there.
Well, President Trump says the U.S. military struck a boat off Venezuela's coast suspected of trafficking drugs. He posted this video on social media
saying that that operation, that explosion there, killed all six people on board. He claimed the vessel was trafficking narcotics and was associated
with illicit narco terrorist networks. It's a word he's used a lot in multiple strikes like this. This is at least the fifth time the U.S. has
announced such a strike.
[18:35:00]
Christopher Hernandez-Roy is a senior fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. So, Christopher, the administration says it has
the right to carry out these military strikes by categorizing the drug traffickers as unlawful combatants. Is that legally based, right? I mean,
do the facts support that and does the law support that?
CHRISTOPHER HERNANDEZ-ROY, SENIOR FELLOW, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: Well, I'm not a lawyer, but what I would say is
what the administration is thinking or the position that they've taken is that they're applying the laws of war to what they've deemed narco
terrorists or some of the organizations as foreign terrorist organizations. And under the laws of war, they can target them at any time and any place
because they're deemed to be lawful combatants.
And there are various opinions out there that would suggest that the president and the administration are not on sound legal footing when it
comes to this, primarily because these organizations are motivated by profit. They traffic drugs to make money. It hasn't been shown that they
traffic drugs in order to attack the United States or to kill its citizens for political motivations, which would be the kind of motivations you would
expect from a terrorist organization.
SCIUTTO: It's quite an expansion of claimed presidential power, U.S. power here. It also creates other issues because you had one of the previous
strikes, the president said it was Venezuelan drug gangs and Colombia said, actually, it's our citizens. How are the other countries involved in here?
No one's up here defending drug trafficking, but how are they reacting to what are essentially summary executions, right, of some of their citizens?
HERNANDEZ-ROY: And one of the attacks apparently occurred closer to the Dominican Republic. Not clear whose citizens were on board that boat. But I
would say that the reaction to these kinetic actions in the Caribbean actually have been mixed with some countries supporting them, notably
Trinidad and Tobago, talking about the prime minister of the country, even going so far as to say that the narco trafficker should be violently
killed.
And other countries in Latin America, even as far afield as Paraguay or Argentina or Ecuador, have followed the U.S. example and have designated
organizations such as Tren de Aragua, in some cases for the Cartel de los Soles, in other cases as terrorist organizations. Meanwhile, you have
countries like Colombia, which say this is a completely illegal act. And not only that, but it could threaten a wider conflict in the region. So,
there are definitely mixed reactions.
SCIUTTO: Is this proven to be a successful way of stopping drug trafficking?
HERNANDEZ-ROY: I mean, the first thing I would say is look at where this is happening. This is really sort of off the coast of Venezuela. Whereas
Venezuela is reportedly perhaps responsible for not even quite 10 percent of the cocaine that comes to the United States. We're talking about cocaine
here, which is not fentanyl, which comes from Mexico, which is the drug that's killing Americans.
So, going after less than 10 percent of the cocaine that's coming into the United States off the coast of Venezuela, you'd think you'd want to go
after it where there are much higher volumes. And that's on the Pacific side, where something like three quarters of the cocaine that enters the
United States comes from places like Ecuador and Colombia.
And then, of course, you know, blowing up a few boats, those boats can be replaced. These drug trafficking organizations have immensely deep pockets.
They can replace equipment. They can replace men and material. And for there to be a real long-term impact, you'd have to have a sustained
campaign that lasts months, if not years.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
HERNANDEZ-ROY: In the short-term, I think it's probably very effective because who wants to be on the water? Even if you're a fisherman, just, you
know, going about your business when there's a potential of a drone overhead that might target your ship. So, there is definitely a short-term
impact, I think, but it remains to be seen whether this is something that will have an impact over the long-term.
SCIUTTO: And it raises the point there, right, what happens if you kill the wrong people, right? I mean, that's the issue. Christopher Hernandez-
Roy, thanks so much.
HERNANDEZ-ROY: My pleasure.
SCIUTTO: Virtually, every media outlet with access to the Pentagon has not refused to sign tough new restrictions on their ability to report the news.
As a result, all of those outlets are being banned from entering the headquarters of the Defense Department.
[18:40:00]
The journalists were told by the Pentagon to sign a pledge not to obtain or use unauthorized material, even if that information is unclassified. The
only outlet to agree to those rules One America News, which is a staunchly pro-Trump outlet. Chief Media Analyst Brian Stelter has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is about as packed a news conference as I've ever seen here at the Pentagon.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST (voice-over): Reporters have been posted inside the U.S. military headquarters for decades.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you clarify any details about that story?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't.
STELTER (voice-over): Asking questions on behalf of the public.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you commit to making that review public?
STELTER (voice-over): And holding public officials accountable.
LLOYD AUSTIN, FORMER U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: I want to be crystal clear. We did not handle this right.
STELTER (voice-over): But you haven't seen any of those exchanges lately, because the Trump administration has stopped holding regular Pentagon
briefings.
PETE HEGSETH, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: For far too long, this department has failed too many of our warfighters.
STELTER (voice-over): Now, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is only allowing press passes for people who sign new rules that, quote, "appear to violate
the First Amendment," according to the Association for Pentagon Beat Reporters.
HEGSETH: He may be new to Washington --
STELTER (voice-over): A longtime Fox News host is now openly hostile to the media and trying to stop leaks from his department.
HEGSETH: Time and time again, classified information is leaked or peddled for political purposes to try to make the president look bad.
STELTER (voice-over): Media lawyers say the new rules for accessing the Pentagon would criminalize journalism. So, today, in a rare show of
solidarity, the country's five biggest TV networks said no. CNN, Fox News, ABC, NBC, and CBS all saying, quote, "The policy is without precedent and
threatens core journalistic protections." Dozens of other outlets are also refusing to sign the papers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here at the Pentagon --
STELTER (voice-over): So, those live shots may be a thing of the past, along with this sense that the press has a key role to play.
DICK CHENEY, FORMER U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: Probably the most professional operation that I've witnessed consistently have been all of you. We didn't
always agree, but it has been a pleasure to work with you for the last four years.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Well, that kind of comedy between the folks who work at the Pentagon and the people who cover it, long gone. Straight ahead. CNN speaks
to the children of a couple taken by ICE immigration officers. Maria Santana has their story in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: In Chicago, a teenager has been describing the moment that ICE agents took away her parents at a traffic stop.
[18:45:00]
The 19-year-old was left at the roadside along with her siblings. According to the Department of Homeland Security, their parents were undocumented.
They are now being held in separate detention centers facing deportation. Maria Santana has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
YURITHSI ENCISO, PARENTS DETAINED BY ICE: It's OK. No, please. It's OK. We're OK.
MARIA SANTANA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): This video quickly spread across social media. A teenage girl on the side of the road shielding her
younger siblings as ICE agents arrest their parents and older brother after a traffic stop in September.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your brother, is he a citizen?
Y. ENCISO: We don't answer questions.
That's all I could say. Like no other words came out of my mouth. I was not prepared for that.
SANTANA (voice-over): 19-year-old Yurithsi Enciso and her 22-year-old brother Moises Jr. speaking publicly for the first time about that viral
moment that they say turned their lives upside down.
Y. ENCISO: My heart was just -- it kept pounding, kept pounding. My legs, my hands kept shaking.
SANTANA (voice-over): She says she was only able to hold it together for her 12-year-old sister and her little brother who was turning 10 that day.
Y. ENCISO: I didn't want them to see me crying because that was going to affect them more. So, I just had to make sure they were calm. It's OK.
We're going to be OK.
BLITZER: Moises Jr. says that morning he went with his parents to pick up supplies at Home Depot before the family's birthday celebration when they
were pulled over for allegedly making an illegal U-turn. He recalls three ICE vehicles, blocking them in, and agents surrounding their car demanding
to see their IDs.
MOISES ENCISO JR., PARENTS DETAINED BY ICE: And they just kept asking us these questions, and my dad kept looking back at me and saying, like,
should I answer, what should I do? And I was kind of, like, also panicking.
SANTANA (voice-over): Yurithsi and Moises Jr. both are awaiting approval for Deferred Action for Childhood Arrival Status, or DACA. Their siblings
are U.S. citizens. According to DHS, their parents, Constantina Ramirez and Moises Enciso Sr., are undocumented Mexican immigrants. They have lived in
Cicero, a suburb outside of Chicago, for nearly 20 years, the family attorney told CNN. They are now being held in separate detention centers.
Y. ENCISO: And I remember that first night, the first thing I wanted to do was sleep in my mom and dad's bed because it felt like if I was sleeping
there, I had, like, a part of them.
SANTANA (voice-over): That night marked the beginning of a new reality, one where they were suddenly left to care for their younger siblings.
Y. ENCISO: They haven't been doing good. They're always saying that they miss them whenever we're, like, about to eat. They're like, oh -- and they,
like, have flashbacks about my mom and dad. Oh, I remember when my mom did this. And they just, like, go quiet. They're sad.
SANTANA: What would it mean for your family if they were to get deported?
M. ENCISO: I try not to think about it.
SANTANA: I'm so sorry. I know it's hard.
M. ENCISO: I think we don't know. Like, we don't know if my siblings can stay here with us. Like, we don't know if they have to go to Mexico.
There's just a lot of, like, insecurity or uncertainty that we just don't know.
SANTANA (voice-over): According to DHS, if the parents have a valid claim, it will be heard by a judge. If not, they will be subject to removal. But
their children say they'll keep fighting until their family is together again.
Y. ENCISO: They're not criminals. They're hardworking people who, I don't know, but I consider my parents my best friends. I know they're going to be
there for me and support me.
SANTANA (voice-over): Maria Santana, CNN, Chicago.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Our thanks to Maria Santana for that story. Well, the man is pleaded guilty to dozens of charges related to an arson attack at the home
of the governor of Pennsylvania. Prosecutors released surveillance videos showing the attack in April. They say that is Cody Balmer setting fire to
the home while Governor Josh Shapiro and his family were asleep inside. They were awakened by security, thankfully, and evacuated safely. Governor
Shapiro says the attack still haunts his family to this day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO (D-PA): It's hard for me to stand before you today and utter the words attempted murder when it's your own life to know that
someone tried to kill me. It's especially hard to know that he tried to burn our family to death while we slept.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Just an alarming, alarming case. Under a plea to Balmer was sentenced to between 25 and 50 years in prison. That's inside the house
there, the video you're watching.
[18:50:00]
Well, on a lighter note, the 2026 World Cup is beginning to take shape. More than half of the 48 teams have now secured their spots. We're going to
have details on today's qualifiers next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Pro-Palestinian protesters clashed with police in Italy as the country faces Israel in a World Cup qualifier. Italy won that match, now
securing a spot in the World Cup. And the tiny African island nation of Cape Verde will play in the men's World Cup for the first time after
beating Eswatini. The country has about 600,000 people.
Don Riddell joins me now. Wow. I love seeing those small countries get in. It's going to be great. So, more teams punched their tickets today. So,
walk us through the latest ones to qualify.
DON RIDDELL, CNN WORLD SPORT: Hey, Jim. Well, yes, it is all starting to really take shape. More than half of the 48 teams have now secured their
qualification. I think we're up to 28, including South Africa, Ivory Coast, Senegal from Africa. So, to the host of the last tournament, Qatar, Saudi
Arabia, and England.
Thomas Tuchel's three lines wrapped up their qualification on Tuesday night with a comprehensive dismantling of Latvia in Riga. Anthony Gordon with the
opening goal. England really dominated every aspect of this game. They were three-nil up by halftime, thanks to a quick fire brace from Captain Harry
Kane just before the interval. I don't think England really needed any help, but a second half own goal certainly didn't hurt. And Eberechi Eze
put the icing on the cake with a fifth goal towards the end. That's six wins out of six. England have qualified with two games to spare.
Portugal have only played four of their games in Group F. They've got a little bit more work still to do. Historic day in Lisbon as Cristiano
Ronaldo scored twice in the first half against Hungary. His 40th and 41st goals in World Cup qualifying. That is a record. Portugal were 2-1 up. And
on the cusp of qualification, but a late equalizer means they'll have to keep the champagne on ice for a bit longer. But surely, they're heading to
the U.S., Canada and Mexico. Two-all the final score. They are five points clear at the top of Group F.
As I mentioned just then, three more African teams have qualified, meaning a total of nine teams from the continent can start making plans. There will
be a tenth. That will be determined later in a playoff. This is how the African champions, Ivory Coast, made it. The nerves would have been
jangling in Abidjan as the Elephants knew they had to beat Kenya. Frank Kesey calmed those nerves with an early goal. But it wasn't until Yan
Diomande's 54th minute strike that everyone could relax a bit. Amad Diallo then put qualification beyond any doubt with a third goal eight minutes
from time. Ivory Coast finished top of Group F, a point clear of Gabor.
[18:55:00]
SCIUTTO: So, I wonder when you look at the field so far about half of it, who's been the biggest surprise?
RIDDELL: I don't think there's any doubt about that question. The Blue Sharks, Cape Verde, have just been absolutely incredible. I think you
touched upon it just a moment ago, Jim. A country of just 600,000 people. This is an island nation off the coast of Senegal. They have become the
second smallest country ever to qualify for the World Cup.
And it is just remarkable when you think about how they've done it. This is a country that only won its independence 50 years and 100 days ago. They
were barely even playing football 25 years ago. But they came up with a plan. They've had consistent coaching. They've had investment. A lot of
support from China, interestingly. And they have a massive diaspora all over the world. A lot of people left Cape Verde in the '60s and '70s. And
so, now you have all this kind of mini-Cape Verde communities all over the world. And they've been able to tap into that. More than half the team has
come from outside Cape Verde to represent them and take them to the World Cup. And these guys and their fans are going to be a lot of fun to follow
in the World Cup next year.
SCIUTTO: I'm going to be rooting for them. Don Riddell, maybe you'll join me.
RIDDELL: Yes, I will. Yes.
SCIUTTO: Thanks. And thanks so much to all of you. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. You've been watching "The Brief." Please do stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:00:00]
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