Return to Transcripts main page

The Brief with Jim Sciutto

Maduro Pleads Not Guilty To Drug Charges; Rodriguez Sworn In As Venezuela's Acting President; Trump Threatens Other Countries After Venezuela Strikes; Colombia's Petro Vows To Defends Country; Trump Touts "Donroe Doctrine"; Venezuelans In U.S. React To Maduro's Arrest. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired January 05, 2026 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE AND CNN ANCHOR, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS: Hello and welcome wherever you're joining U.S., wherever you are

in the world. I'm Richard Quest in New York. Jim is off for the evening and you are about to be briefed.

Ahead in the hour, a defiant Nicolas Maduro pleads not guilty to drug charges and says he was kidnapped. Venezuela's acting president, Delcy

Rodriguez, calls Maduro a hero as she takes the oath of office. And Colombia's leader vows to defend his country after Donald Trump implies

that he could also be a target.

The former Venezuelan leader Nicolas Maduro and his wife Cilia Flores have pleaded not guilty today in their first court appearance in a New York

court. The deposed president is facing U.S. drugs and weapons charges. Maduro told the judge he's the president of Venezuela and that he was

kidnapped by the U.S. military. The next hearing is scheduled for March the 17th.

U.S. troops captured the pair in the dramatic military operation that took place in Caracas over the weekend. The State Department posted on social

media, this is our hemisphere and President Trump will not allow our security to be threatened.

Meanwhile, the U.S. Congress was not notified about the Caracas raid ahead of time and the White House says it didn't need to be, citing the risk of

leaks. Also, today, a group of select group of lawmakers, the so-called Gang of Eight, got a briefing from officials about the attack. They are

lawmakers from the Senate and House Foreign Relations Armed Services Committee, called, as I say, the Gang of Eight.

Now, listen to what the White House adviser, Stephen Miller, said on CNN just a few short moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN MILLER, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF FOR POLICY: We live in a world in which you can talk all you want about international niceties and

everything else. But we live in a world, in the real world, Jake, that is governed by strength, that is governed by force, that is governed by power.

These are the iron laws of the world --

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: But are you saying that --

MILLER: -- since the beginning of time.

TAPPER: But in terms of day-to-day operations in Venezuela, that is president -- acting President Rodriguez, right, it's not some sort of

American emissary?

MILLER: No, what I'm saying is -- we'll keep going here, Jake. So, I want to say what I'm saying and then you'll follow up. But what I'm saying is

just one level above that, which is that, by definition, we are in charge. Because we have the United States military stationed outside the country.

We set the terms and conditions. We have a complete embargo on all of their oil and their ability to do commerce.

So, for them to do commerce, they need our permission. For them to be able to run an economy, they need our permission. So, the United States is in

charge. The United States is running. The country during this transition period.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Kristen Holmes joins us from the White House. I mean, it doesn't get clearer than that. Both on one hand, it tells us everything and it tells us

nothing. It doesn't tell us about the practicalities in a sense of we have the military outside, we set the terms, they need our permission. And it's

a classic case of might is right.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Richard, I think that's right. I think a couple of things. One is going back to what we

heard from Secretary Marco Rubio over the weekend. He laid out this idea that the U.S. would be controlling policy, not running the country, but

running policy and made it clear that the way that they were going to be, quote unquote, "running policy was through leverage."

And part of that leverage is what you heard from Stephen Miller just now, having the military outside, essentially guns focused on Venezuela to give

them the kind of ultimatum that if you don't do what we want, then we will take action.

[18:05:00]

And we also heard from Rubio saying that sanctions would be kept in order, this blockade on these oil tankers would also be something that they kept

in place, they would continue to go after those oil tankers. All of this as they try to get what they want done for America in Venezuela.

Now, there are still a lot of questions here as to how exactly this is going to loOK. because as you noted, there is still an actual person in

charge right now of Venezuela, somebody -- the vice president, Delcy Rodriguez, who went from being the vice president to now the acting

president. And it was interesting to see her kind of shift her tone over 24 hours, first saying that it was a savage and brutal attack, demanding that

Maduro be returned to then a more docile approach, saying that she had reached out to the U.S. or was inviting the U.S. to cooperate.

But then again, when she was sworn in or around when she was sworn in, attacking the United States and the removal of Maduro. When you talk to

U.S. officials, they are actually cautiously optimistic about her cooperating with the United States. It's unclear why. They're saying that

she has to say this. This is just rhetoric now. They'll see what she actually does.

But again, there's a lot of questions as to what you heard from Jake there when he was interviewing them. What does a day to day look like in this

case?

QUEST: Right. But one of the things on that, it's the day to day that's the difficulty. You know, he may -- I mean, I understand what Stephen Miller

says when he says, I'm not going to be setting the bus fares and the bus timetables in Caracas. But every day, real decisions will have to be made.

What judges to appoint? What happens to this, that, either? What policy on X, Y, Z?

Now, you know, to an extent, the U.S. seems to be obsessed by the oil industry. But what about the rest of the government, the military, the --

you name it?

HOLMES: Right. I mean, that's the big question here, what does that look like in the inner workings of the government? And that's what you heard

Jake trying to get out there was who's in control of the day-to-day ins and outs.

Now, when it comes to the oil industry, one of the things that we've been told pretty explicitly is that the U.S. is very focused on rebuilding the

infrastructure, the oil infrastructure in Venezuela. So, that's going to be one of the first things that they focus on.

And I will remind you that Rodriguez, before being acting president, was not only the vice president, she was also the oil minister. And that was

something that the Trump administration took note of, meaning that she would understand how to revamp the infrastructure in Venezuela. She would

understand what the problems were. She would understand how to work with the various oil companies to do what the United States wants her to do.

Again, it's still a question of whether or not she's actually going to follow through with that.

It seems as though they are cherry picking right now in terms of what the United States is going to control versus what the United States is not

going to control. But again, you know, we're in this position here where it's very clear that the Trump administration and Donald Trump himself does

not want to be responsible for the falling or dissemination of a country. And that is why they are trying to bring some kind of administrative

stability by keeping this focus on the vice president, not supporting an opposition leader, for example, like Maria Machado.

But at the same time, they are seemingly uninterested in so many parts of what running a government, another government, is going to entail.

QUEST: Kristen, you put it beautifully. That's very difficult to know where this goes from here on in. I'm grateful to you. Thank you. Kristen Holmes

at the White House.

HOLMES: Thank you.

QUEST: Now, the extraordinary arrest, it begs a really simple question, is any of it legal? His counsel is going to argue, of course, that the U.S.

has violated international law. I spoke to Sir Geoffrey Nice KC, former prosecutor for the International Criminal Tribunal for the former

Yugoslavia, and I asked him about Trump administration's apparent legal argument of might and right.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEOFFREY NICE, FORMER PROSECUTOR, INTERNATIONAL TRIBUNAL FOR THE FORMER YUGOSLAVIA: The development of international humanitarian law mechanisms.

So, that's the International Court of Justice, before that the post-World War I courts, the ad hoc courts for Yugoslavia and the International

Criminal Court, actually occupy quite a small period of time. They may be seen as the exception, whereas the general rule coming from Westphalia

Treaty and so on, is that states can do what they like. Therefore, powerful states will do what they like.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Elie's with me, Elie Honig. Powerful states will do what they like. Stephen Miller, we just played a moment ago, you heard it, I think, Jake

talking to him. Stephen Miller basically said that government is about strength, power, and force. We have the U.S. military outside. We set the

terms. You and I can wax lyrical about whether it was legal or not. It matters not a job, does it?

[18:10:00]

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST AND FORMER PROSECUTOR: That's exactly right, Richard. So, you and I can go on for days about international law

and conventions and diplomacy and what's legal under the Geneva Convention or what's allowed under the ICC or not.

If you look at American law, and we don't have a big body of law here, but what we have tells us that even if an arrest might violate precepts or

principles of international law, that does not mean a federal indictment in the United States gets thrown out. That was tested during the arrest and

prosecution, successful prosecution, ultimately, of Manuel Noriega in the early 1990s. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in a case where a Mexican

national was essentially forcefully kidnapped in Mexico without the consent of the government and brought here to stand trial that, yes, might makes

right to a large extent, and he still will stand trial here.

Now, Maduro made clear today in court that he will raise these arguments, that he will argue that his arrest violates international law, that he's

entitled to immunity as a foreign head of state. Ultimately, if I had to project, Richard, I think those arguments will fail under U.S. federal law.

QUEST: What about the hypocrisy of the Honduras former president? You know, I mean, you know, I guess many of your colleagues at the Southern District

must be spitting feathers over that particular one. He is brought to the U.S., tried in an extremely complicated case, and then pardoned by the

president for exactly the same offenses as Maduro.

HONIG: The hypocrisy is undeniable, but also legally irrelevant. I mean, Maduro may go into court, if he were to go into court and say, loOK. here's

a similarly situated person who did similar or maybe even worse things than I'm charged with doing the president of Honduras, and that person was

pardoned. You know what the response will be from the U.S. District Court judge? Well, I wish you good luck in getting your pardon then. But unless

and until you do, that pardon has no impact on the case here.

But you're right, there is no reconciling the two actions if the concern here is really to cut off major international pipelines of narcotics into

the United States. You can't make sense of it, but it's also not going to help Nicholas Maduro in his defense.

QUEST: Right. So, let's move up the scale if we may. Let's go all the way back to West failure agreements in the 17th and the sovereignty -- you

know, the supreme sovereignty of countries, the supreme sovereignty of heads of state and all of that sort of stuff. I agree it's not going to

help Maduro, who is now nine-tenths of the law. His presence is right. You've got him, therefore. But it puts the U.S. in a very difficult

position in terms of future actions, doesn't it?

Countries are going to look at the U.S. and say, we cannot trust you to recognize our sovereignty. Does the U.S. care?

HONIG: Well, I think that's a major issue. You have to look at the slippery slope and the thing about slippery slopes are they are slippery and they do

tend to get worse. And I think other countries could look at this action and say, what's to stop the U.S. from coming in here and arresting our top

officials, our elected leader? And it could provide a basis for other countries to say, well, loOK. the United States did it. We're more powerful

than that country across the river. And so, we're going to go invade that country.

You raise an interesting point about the notion of immunity, Richard, because, of course, it was not long ago, the summer of 2024, when our U.S.

Supreme Court in the case Trump versus United States recognized very broad immunity for the U.S. president. So, that principle clearly is not applying

to other countries.

QUEST: What's interesting about that -- sorry, I'm going to take an extra 30 seconds here. What's interesting about that, if you were -- if, if, if

you were to apply that same principle that they did for Trump in that case to Maduro vis-a-vis what he's accused of, he should be immune as well.

HONIG: Well, yes. The argument would then be, does Maduro's conduct fall within the scope of his job as president? Is it within his official duties

or is it beyond? And by the way, there's a reason why Maduro was insisting in court today, a political and a legal reason why he kept saying,

unsolicited, I am the president of Venezuela. Our country doesn't agree with it. But that was the reason he was saying that in court today.

QUEST: I'm grateful, Elie. Thank you very much.

HONIG: Thanks, Richard.

QUEST: Good to have you with us tonight. Colombia has deployed 30,000 troops to secure its border with Venezuela following the military operation

in Caracas, according to the country's defense minister. President Trump has threatened Colombia's democratically elected leftist leader, Gustavo

Petro.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Colombia is very sick, run by a sick man who likes making cocaine and selling it to the United States. And he's not

going to be doing it very long. He has cocaine mills and cocaine factories. He's not going to be doing it very long.

[18:15:00]

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, there will be an operation by the U.S. in Colombia?

TRUMP: It sounds good to me.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: President Petro said he would personally take up arms if the U.S. decides to attack. David Culver is in the Colombian city of Cucuta, which

borders Venezuela. Hopefully you can hear me, David. Two issues I want to address with you during the course of our discussion. The first, of course,

is how worried the leader needs to be in Colombia.

But the second also, and we'll start with this one, is this idea of a border that is now porous or at least more dangerous for narco-terrorists

on both sides who could take over in the vacuum.

DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Right. Who's going to fill that vacuum? That's the real question, Richard. I'll start with your first

point, and that is the uncertainty and the unknowns. And that's certainly what folks in the leadership here in Colombia and the government,

particularly with President Petro, are thinking when they're looking to the east, just behind me, to Venezuela. I mean, I think the reality is many

folks here did not expect what played out over the weekend to have happened.

Certainly, the leadership here is in that category. And so, there's just an unknown of what could happen next. Certainly, when you hear the rhetoric

from the Trump administration and President Trump himself, that adds to the uneasiness.

Now, with regard to that porous border, there's no question that's something else that they're very focused on, and not just military

leadership, but also everyday people who really aren't sure what's going to continue to come over with regards to armed groups and gangs and how that

will spread. But to block that, the 30,000 troops that you mentioned, a handful of them are just behind me. You can see a few of the armored

vehicles.

But we were able to get a real sense as to what a deployment to Colombia's border with Venezuela really looks like.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CULVER: Let's get in here. Got it?

CULVER (voice-over): This is the show of force Colombian commanders want the world, and perhaps mostly Washington, to witness.

CULVER: And so, here it is now evening, going into late in the night, and we're about to see some of the many patrols that have sprawled out across

the 1,300-plus miles of border between Colombia and Venezuela.

CULVER (voice-over): The government says it's now deployed some 30,000 Colombian troops to its eastern border.

CULVER: Military commanders stress that their priority is security and stability more than anything else. It may look like an escalation, but they

say this is about being prepared for whatever situation might unfold. But you can't look past the timing, and that is all of this happening as

scrutiny from Washington intensifies.

CULVER (voice-over): At all hours, the Colombian military increasingly present here, pushing back on claims from the Trump administration that

they're not doing enough to stop criminal organizations and drugs from crossing the border.

LT. COL. JOHNNATAN ARCOS, COLOMBIAN ARMY (through translator): Adamant, they're focused on guaranteeing and defending Colombia's sovereignty and

primarily its citizens.

CULVER (voice-over): And yet, despite the show of force, life here, pretty normal for the moment.

CULVER: You can see steady traffic coming in from Venezuela into Colombia. This is the Simon Bolivar Bridge. It takes you right into Venezuela.

CULVER (voice-over): Or out of Venezuela, in Maria's case, if only for a couple of hours. She's got a doctor's appointment in Colombia.

CULVER: She says everything's calm.

CULVER (voice-over): She's among those still living in Venezuela, willing to tell us on camera she's happier with Maduro gone.

CULVER: She says as soon as Maduro became president, everything just went downhill from there. So, she's hoping it can revert back to the way it was,

as she says, before.

CULVER (voice-over): In a seemingly forgotten, tucked away mountain community here in Cucuta, Colombia, many we meet dream bigger for

Venezuela's future.

CULVER: And this is a community that's basically a migrant settlement. She thinks there are more Venezuelans in this community than Colombians. Mind

you, we're in Colombia.

CULVER (voice-over): This family left Venezuela two years ago, intentionally keeping close to their homeland.

CULVER: Do you want to go back? She would love to go back.

[18:20:00]

That's where the bedroom is. And they have running water and electricity. The neighbor has internet and so they share it.

So, this is your kitchen, right? So, this is their kitchen. They have one bedroom there.

CULVER (voice-over): Incredibly modest, but better still, she insists, than life on the other side of the border.

CULVER (on camera): She said life in Venezuela was incredibly difficult, even working, she said. We had to make choices. Do you buy clothes? Do you

buy food?

CULVER (voice-over): She's among the nearly 3 million who've left Venezuela to settle in Colombia in recent years, believed to be the largest

Venezuelan diaspora outside of Venezuela.

CULVER: She said her husband wanted to stay close to their homeland. So, they're just over the border. Secondly, she was worried about the journey

to the U.S.

CULVER (voice-over): And yet, before returning, she, like most here, want to see lasting changes take shape.

CULVER: Do you think the U.S. can change things in Venezuela? She does think the U.S. actually can contribute, not to do everything, but to at

least make a better Venezuela, as she sees it.

CULVER (voice-over): Until then, they've made this home.

CULVER: She says, go back three years ago, and this was a mess. It didn't look anything like this, but the community came together, and now it's a

place where a lot of the kids gather and they play.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CULVER (on camera): A short time ago, our team, Richard, spoke with the defense minister here in Colombia, and he's really trying to lower the

temperature between the two countries, trying to keep the rhetoric of accusatory tone away from the situation, and saying, loOK. nations aren't

at war with each other. Let's focus more on the criminals that are on groups, gangs, those who are smuggling drugs over the borders.

He's even sending a message, Richard, to Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth, saying, soldier to soldier, this is the defense minister wording it, why

don't you come to Colombia, see how we're doing it ourselves? Essentially saying that he hopes that this is an opportunity for the U.S. to align with

Colombia in going after what they see as a common enemy.

QUEST: I'm grateful. Thank you, David Culver, who is on the border there. Thank you, sir.

Now, with me, the former Colombian defense minister and former Colombian ambassador to the U.S., Juan Carlos Pinzon. Ambassador, good to have you.

Thank you, sir. Do you realistically, and I think the key word here is realistically, fear that the Trump administration could do a repeat and go

in to get the Colombian president?

JUAN CARLOS PINZON, FORMER COLOMBIAN AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S. AND FORMER COLOMBIAN DEFENSE MINISTER: Well, thank you, Richard, for having me here at

CNN. Look. I think that what matters is that we Colombians change the course of the current times in Colombia.

Sadly, in the latest years, there's an expansion of organized crime, of terrorism, of drug trafficking. We have the largest ever production of

cocaine in the history of Colombia, the largest ever production of illegal mining of gold and coltan, and the largest numbers of extortion cases in

our country. We need to recover security for our citizens.

We need to protect our people. We need to go after criminals, as I did when I was minister of defense. And that is really what is going to protect

Colombia, Colombian sovereignty, and really allow a cooperation with democracy worldwide.

QUEST: Right. But, you know, that's a criticism and an accusation against the current administration, of which you may not support, and that they

haven't done their job. So, the core question -- and you can't avoid it, sir, because the weekend events have changed the rules of this game. So, to

do what you have just said, go after all these things, would you be in favor of the removal of the president in such a way?

PINZON: Colombian people have a great opportunity in May, it's five months from now, when we have elections, and we can really get rid of what we have

right now. Actually, the majority of Colombians are very frustrated because they are having problems in security. They see how this expansion of crime

is affecting our lives. So, Colombia has freedom, we love democracy, we love freedom, and we need to, using democracy and freedom, change the

current administration.

QUEST: OK. You obviously prefer it to be done through the ballot box in five months' time. You may not have that choice, if the U.S. president

decides to do otherwise. Neither of us can know what's in the president's mind. So, we'll -- let's move on on that point.

I want to get you, because as a former ambassador to the United States, you are very familiar with the Monroe Doctrine, and you're very familiar with

this idea now of what the U.S. appears to be saying, the Trump corollary or the Donroe Doctrine, whatever you want to call it, that the U.S. will do

whatever it wants in its hemispheric sphere of influence. Do you see that as a worrying trend?

[18:25:00]

PINZON: LoOK. let me put it this way. I've been working for years with the United States Department of Homeland Security, including the Trump, Obama,

Biden, Clinton, Bush, et cetera. And along my career, Colombia was the major contributor to the fight against organized crime in the hemisphere.

And that allowed Colombia to become a near non-NATO ally, a country that was described as the country that was really doing the fight, and honestly,

along the 21st century, the country that expanded the most in terms of economics and reduction of poverty and other (INAUDIBLE).

My point right now is we need to really go back to what we did very well, protect our country, protect our sovereignty by protecting our citizens, by

going after criminals, and by creating the conditions to attract investment, to attract development, and to make the lives of our people a

lot better. That's the real challenge we have.

QUEST: I hear you, sir.

PINZON: But we are --

QUEST: I hear you, sir. But that's --

PINZON: -- risk.

QUEST: That is not possible, or at least it's unhelpful, when the U.S. president basically says it's a good idea to go and attack Colombia, or at

least have some military activity against Colombia. That, sir, is your big problem at the moment.

PINZON: Well, let me put it this way. I've never expected the United States to attack Colombia. But if there are criminals in Colombia that are

attacking the United States or doing things against the United States, I understand that the United States will go after them.

The best way we Colombians can protect our sovereignty, as we have done, and becoming so relevant internationally, is by fighting ourselves, the

criminals, and protecting Colombians. Because the bad news right now is that every security indicator is deteriorating for us Colombians. These are

people who are getting killed.

QUEST: A final question, sir. I'm old enough to remember the really bad days of Bogota, the cartels, the whole lot. And things got much, much

better, hugely better. The country turned around. Tremendous presidents that you had, peace-loving presidents. So, what went wrong?

PINZON: Well, Richard, thank you for recognizing that, because that's in part what I did. Leading the Armed Forces of Colombia, our military, our

soldiers, we recovered security. And we recovered security, we were able to recover investment, economic growth, and attract the world to us. And

created conditions for a peace agreement.

And that peace, at the end, came, but sadly, the agreement didn't stick. Because unfortunately, the criminals got advantages. They were able to

expand again. They were able to expand in criminal activities or drug trafficking. And now, we're in this problem, having a government that has

aligned with Maduro, that has facilitated somehow the activities of many criminals in the country. We need to recover our country. And we have this

wonderful democracy. In May, we can change this. And we will, I'm sure.

QUEST: Sir, I'm grateful. Thank you, Minister, Ambassador. Choose your title on any given day. Thank you, sir, for joining us tonight. I'm

grateful to have you.

PINZON: Thank you. Appreciate it.

QUEST: Coming up, as I brief you more, Wall Street is hoping for a black- gold bonanza now that Maduro's out. The oil market, it's all about oil. Well, so they say. We'll tell you what that really means in practice. Oh,

go on, have a bell.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:00]

QUEST: And now, allow me to brief you on business, if you will. A Business Breakout. There was a rally on the markets, which might seem a little

perverse bearing in mind everything else that's been happening. And the Dow is actually at a record high led by Chevron, which is up 5 percent. Other

oil majors are also up after the capture of Maduro.

ExxonMobil, Halliburton, the oil services company, and oil refiner Valero. Mr. Trump said oil played a factor in the ouster of Maduro.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Remember, they stole our property. It was the greatest theft in the history of America. Nobody has ever stolen our property like they have.

They took our oil away from us. They took the infrastructure away. And all that infrastructure's rotted and decayed. And the oil companies are going

to go in and rebuild it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: OK. You don't need to be a massive expert to know that rebuilding the Venezuelan oil industry will cost tens of billions of dollars and take

years, if not decades. A source has told Reuters that oil executives will meet President Trump to discuss exactly the way forward. Oil itself,

perhaps for the reason of how long it's going to take, was only marginally higher.

Both benchmarks were up more than 1.5 percent. Robert Thummel is with me, Senior Portfolio Manager at Tortoise Capital. Good to see you, sir. So,

short-term, we know there's going to be no great extra oil. How's the market, then, factoring in what has taken place?

ROBERT THUMMEL, SENIOR PORTFOLIO MANAGER, TORTOISE CAPITAL: Yes, thanks for having me, Richard. So, if you look at what happened in oil today, it

actually was kind of flat. It really didn't do much, right? It was up a little bit.

So, what the market said, at least initially, is the geopolitical risk premium in oil prices, it added a little bit to the geopolitical risk

premium because there really hasn't been one, right? And so, oil prices, basically, or the dynamics and the fundamentals of oil, really haven't

changed. And that's what caused, really, oil to decline last year by 20 percent.

We have an oversupplied oil market. Oil prices are down. And hey, frankly, that's a great thing, Richard, for you and I and all the global consumers

because gasoline and jet fuel and other derivatives of oil are going to be lower. Prices are going to be lower. Inflation's going to be lower. And

that's a good thing. And so, at Tortoise -- with Tortoise we don't see that. We don't really see oil prices rising from here.

QUEST: OK. So, Venezuela's got about 950-odd thousand, a million, call it a million barrels a day. It's a heavy crude, a very heavy crude, which the

U.S. is particularly good at refining. I'm sounding like an expert. It's just an afternoon's reading that's basically told me this.

But if the U.S. starts to pour the billions in, I mean, let's put aside the legal issues and the requirements. Eventually, Venezuela will become a

larger producer, which will give the U.S., assuming it maintains control, enormous power.

THUMMEL: No, absolutely. You're exactly right, Richard. You are an expert. You stated it very clearly. So, Venezuela owns or possesses a significant

amount of heavy oil resource. And you're right. Heavy oil is important because the U.S. refining system is really structured to process, refine,

heavy oil as a raw material into all these refined products, diesel, jet fuel, heating oil, things like that.

[18:35:00]

So, if there's more -- and a significant amount more of heavy oil available, which Venezuela possesses, then you could see oil prices fall.

But the first point you make is a very important one. For the U.S. to get that heavy oil, to increase the production of heavy oil, there's a

significant resource, but it requires a significant amount of capital, a significant amount of capital expenditures. And that can't be done by

everybody. You need well-capitalized balance sheets of some of the large, major U.S. oil and gas corporations, like an Exxon, like a Chevron, like a

ConocoPhillips, to commit that capital to go back in and rebuild the infrastructure.

QUEST: At what point does geopolitical risk, this idea of might is right? Look, at the U.S. -- the U.S. can -- the markets will like, to a certain

extent, the fact that the U.S. is getting what it wants. Profits will be up. Therefore, things are looking good, if you will. But the underlying

economic fundamentals of the U.S., inflation and employment, the trade deficit, the budget deficit, these are truths that cannot be ignored

forever.

THUMMEL: Well, that's right, but low oil prices can't help cure some of those things, right? If we keep low oil prices, energy costs low, natural

gas prices low in the U.S., well, that keeps inflation low. That keeps the economy growing. Not just domestically, but globally as well, Richard. And

if you can keep the economy growing, and if you can keep consumer demand growing, then ultimately, the oil markets will rebalance because oil demand

and GDP growth, both domestically and globally, kind of move hand in hand. They both move together.

And so, what we think will happen is you'll probably see lower oil production, higher, actually, demand for oil, and the net result will be

the oil markets will become more balanced. Oil prices will probably creep up a bit in 2026.

QUEST: I'm grateful to see you, sir. Thank you for joining us from Missouri. Good of you. Thank you.

Now, President Trump is asserting what he's calling the -- well, what is being called the Donroe Doctrine over Venezuela. It's a play on the Monroe

Doctrine from the 1800s. We'll look at the administration's efforts to dominate the Western Hemisphere. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:00]

QUEST: This is CNN, "The Brief." I'm Richard Quest and these are the headlines.

The ousted Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro has pleaded not guilty in a U.S. federal court here in New York. He was defiant and told the judge I'm

innocent as he was arraigned on drugs, weapons and narco-terrorism charges. His wife Cilia Flores also entered a not guilty plea. They are due back in

court on March the 17th.

The prime minister of Denmark says the year President Trump's talk of taking over Greenland must be taken seriously. Mette Frederiksen says

Greenland's population has made it clear they have no interest in becoming part of the United States. She says the autonomous territory is covered by

Denmark's membership in NATO.

The governor of the U.S. State of Minnesota has dropped his bid for re- election. Tim Walz announced his decision today not to seek a third term. It comes amid an intensifying federal probe into a welfare fraud scandal in

his state. Republicans have sought to blame Walz and Democrats for the abuse of taxpayer money.

The U.S. military operation in Venezuela is testing international laws. After it is bolded, President Trump said American dominance in the Western

Hemisphere will never be questioned again. His actions, though, embolden or could China and Russia as they seek their own spheres of influence. And

that would include in case of China, Taiwan and in case of Russia, Ukraine, Belarus and the Caucasus.

President Trump and his administration have issued warnings to Colombia, Cuba, Mexico, Iran, as well as Greenland, the self-governing territory of

Denmark. I spoke to Fareed Zakaria about the spheres of influence and what's now being called the Donroe doctrine.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, FAREED ZAKARIA GPS: Well, it's a puzzling doctrine, Richard, because the United States for the last 80 years has been

the primary superpower in the world. Our sphere of influence has been the entire globe. We have a series of alliances, 59 treaty allies, as I think

by my counting, that are shaping the stability and influencing parts of the world as far away as Japan and South Korea, obviously the heart of Europe

and also, of course, the Western Hemisphere.

This is a strange return to a period when the United States was a small country. You point out the history. When James Monroe was president, the

United States was not in the top 15 economies in the world. It was a small agricultural nation, mostly, you know, 13 colonies nestled east of the

Allegheny Mountains.

For us to retreat to this hemisphere and in the hope that, I don't know, we're going to get some oil by doing it or some land in Greenland, it first

of all doesn't understand how modern economics works. It's not about resource extraction.

And secondly, it withdraws the United States from its principal trading partners, which are Asia and Europe. We're getting stuck with the least

economically important sphere in that division that you described.

QUEST: Can the U.S. -- that's a fascinating point. So, can the U.S. have its cake and eat it? If we go back to my chart, to my telestrating, can it

have Greenland, arguably Venezuela, Colombia and all these areas, and at the same time still play through Asia, through the South Pacific onto, for

example, the South China Seas and all those areas where it's still hoping to project, or are they going to be met with a Xi saying, get your hands

off. This is our area. Get out.

ZAKARIA: Well, as you say, that is the fundamental challenge, which is if the United States articulates a doctrine that says the reason we get to be

primary -- you know, we get to boss everybody around is this is geographically closer to us. Xi Jinping is going to make exactly the same

argument. And Vladimir Putin has already made exactly the same argument. The U.S. has for eight decades said that is not the way countries should

organize themselves.

[18:45:00]

We are all going to try and play by the same rules. We're all going to try and play by the same norms. And the fact that you are big and strong and

close to your neighbor doesn't mean you can invade it, doesn't mean you can occupy it. And so, hard for me to see what argument the U.S. could make to

a Xi Jinping in Taiwan or to Putin in Ukraine when they said we're just doing what you're doing in our neighborhoods.

QUEST: So, how much of what we've seen in the last four or five days is opportunistic, do you think? John Bolton on this network sort of basically

said it was opportunistic and there's no real policy point behind it other than steal some oil arguably for the future. But others say no. Actually,

this is President Trump ensuring strong U.S. oil reserves for decades into the future when others may dwindle.

ZAKARIA: I think it's a bit of both in the sense that Trump acts impulsively opportunistically. He senses weakness. He sees where he has

leverage and he uses it. But it does come out of a world view that that believes, you know, what the United States should do is pursue its naked

self-interest. But it's a very narrow kind of self-interest.

I mean, really what we have done over the last, again, eight decades is construct a world economy where take energy. We have a very large liquid

market driven world of energy anchored in the dollar. The United States is by the way the largest producer of liquid hydrocarbons in the world. We

don't particularly need more putting your hands on it.

If ownership of resources was the key to global wealth and power how come the countries in Africa are so poor. They're sitting on top of gold mines

and mineral mines of all kinds that it fundamentally misunderstands modern economics.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: Fareed Zakaria. As we continue, Venezuelans in the U.S. react to the arrests some are celebrating others left wondering what on earth comes

next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: One of the largest Venezuelan expat populations is in Florida. Randi Kaye is there in Doral. Randi, they are watching closely and with great

interest.

[18:50:00]

RANDI KAYE, CNN U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They certainly are Richard half the population of Doral, Florida in fact is Venezuelan. It's why they

call this community Doralzuela, because there are so many Venezuelans here. And the people here that we spoke with have some very strong opinions about

Maduro's arrest. The word that I heard most often around here is justice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LIZ REBECCA ALARCON, VENEZUELAN AMERICAN: I am happy to see justice being served. Maduro is a guilty of crimes against humanity, of overstaying his

welcome after being democratically defeated in 2024. There are hundreds of political prisoners still behind bars in Venezuela, and he's also extremely

corrupt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: And people here also told me, Richard, that they are angry. They're disappointed that they have sidelined the opposition leader in Venezuela

and that the -- Maduro's vice president was able to remain in power and is now the interim president. They feel like that is just -- that she is just

part of the same corrupt regime and that nothing is going to change.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADELYS FERRO, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, VENEZUELAN-AMERICAN CAUCUS: The criminal gang is still there and they are in power. And sadly, especially Delcy

Rodriguez who is pretty evil, she's very smart. And if she complied with everything that the Trump administration is asking them for, I am terrified

to think that there is not going to be any transition to democracy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: And those we spoke with say they want no part of the U.S. running Venezuela as President Donald Trump has suggested. They feel that the U.S.

and the International Community should help and support Venezuelans as they decide their own future. Their biggest concern right now is that they don't

see any timeline or any timetable for any sort of transition to a democracy Richard.

QUEST: Randi, I guess that the administration would say early days, early days. Good to see you, Randi, down in Florida.

KAYE: Absolutely.

QUEST: Thank you. This is CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Before I leave you tonight allow me to delve into the briefs and just look at one or two aspects of what we've been talking about. It has

been the most extraordinary day, but I think the most for me the aspect that I find remarkable was what we heard from Stephen Miller earlier today.

The White House deputy chief of staff basically admitting, if I can find a piece of paper, that might is right. He says the U.S. has its military

stationed outside Venezuela. Nothing can move in or out without the U.S. permission. They are running policy. They are running questions. They are

its power, force and might is what is important in the world today and that is the new doctrine of the United States.

[18:55:00]

We heard on our course of our program tonight various people tried to dance around it in a variety of ways. Nobody wants to offend the 500-pound

gorilla because, you know, that phrase, where does the 500-pound gorilla sits? Wherever they want. But that is the reality tonight.

You could arguably say to me, Richard, this is just being realistic. As Stephen Miller said, everybody knows the ways of the world take your

blinkers off, be, you know, a man of the world. I happen to have some slightly higher value than that. I'd like to at least think that we don't

all just go around throwing our weight just because we can.

Well, now, what we've seen from the United States that would appear to be exactly and the U.S. seems happy to admit it. And they've even given it a

name, the Donroe Doctrine.

And that's our program for tonight. Thank you for joining us. Whatever you're up to, have a bell. You're briefed.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:00:00]

END