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The Brief with Jim Sciutto

CNN International: Trump Encourages Protesters in Iran; More Than 2,400 Protesters Killed in Crackdown; Greenland's PM Say He Chooses Denmark Over U.S.; Trump Criticizes Republican Lawmakers Who Voted to Advance War Powers Resolution; Backlash Over Powell Probe Grows on Capitol Hill; Federal Prosecutors in Minnesota Resign; Havana Syndrome Investigation. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired January 13, 2026 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR, "THE BRIEF": Hello and welcome to our viewers, joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington, and

you're watching "The Brief."

Just ahead this hour, President Trump tells Iranian protesters that help is on the way amid a brutal crackdown that has left nearly 2,500 people dead.

Greenland's Prime Minister says he chooses Denmark and NATO over the U.S. Amid Trump's threats to take over the island. And the Pentagon has been

testing a device, which some investigators suspect is linked to the mysterious illness known as Havana Syndrome. I speak to a former CIA

officer who was one of the first patients to feel its effects.

We begin with President Trump urging the people of Iran to now take over the country's institutions. The estimated death toll from more than two

weeks of anti-government protests has now reached 2,400, according to a U.S. human rights group. Today in Michigan, Trump repeated what he had

written on Truth Social that, quote, "help is on the way."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: To all Iranian patriots, keep protesting, take over your institutions if possible, and save the name of the killers

and the abusers that are abusing you. You're being very badly abused. I've canceled all meetings with the Iranian officials until the senseless

killing of protesters stops. And all I say to them is help is on its way. You saw that I put tariffs on anybody doing business with Iran.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: The president has yet to define what that help is. He says a meeting on Iran is happening this evening at the White House, warning

Tehran against executing protesters. The State Department says Iranian authorities were planning to execute a detained professor, 26-year-old

Erfan Soltani, on Wednesday. President Trump told CBS News in an interview the U.S. would take strong action if the regime hanged detained Iranians,

something that the Iranian government has done before. He says to date he has not yet heard reports of that.

Joining us from the White House, Kevin Liptak. Kevin, is it clear to you as to what help President Trump in that meeting tonight at the White House is

considering?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Not particularly. I mean, we know what the options that the president had discussed were. And one,

you know, glimmer of information that we've received is that he spoke to Elon Musk about potentially getting more of those Starlink apparatuses into

Iran to help the protesters get around this information blackout, to help the connectivity, internet, cell service, that kind of thing. And we do

understand that those plans are being put into motion.

The president sort of referred vaguely today to financial help to the protesters, but didn't expand on that at all. So, what exactly the

president means by help isn't clear. What does seem more clear are what the options are that he's weighing for, you know, kinetic action in Iran.

Now, whether or not that actually helps the protesters, I think, is debatable. You know, helping peaceful protesters by firing missiles into

the country is not something that presidents typically sort of weigh. But we know that that's an option that's on the president's desk, you know,

targeting potentially the security services that are leading this crackdown, some sort of a limited missile strike on that front.

Now, the president is discussing all of this here right now with top national security officials. He suggested earlier today that he had

actually made up his mind about how to proceed. He said he knew exactly what his response would be, but he hadn't yet made a decision on whether to

greenlight it or not.

One thing that he does seem to be ruling out entirely is diplomacy. And, you know, it was only on Sunday night that the president seemed sort of

optimistic that a diplomatic window was opening. You know, the Iranian foreign minister had been communicating with Steve Witkoff. The White House

said that those messages were, in fact, much more conciliatory than what the Iranians had been saying in public.

[18:05:00]

And the White House said that this was the president's preferred option, that he would always seek diplomacy first. Today he completely reversed

himself, saying that diplomacy was off the table, while this crackdown on protesters continued, saying that any meetings with the Iranians had been

canceled. You know, it's not clear whether those meetings had actually been scheduled. But it does seem as if that he's taking that option off the

table for now, as he considers somewhat more severe options going ahead.

SCIUTTO: Well, the pendulum keeps swinging. Good evening. Kevin Liptak at the White House. Thanks so much.

LIPTAK: Sure.

SCIUTTO: The foreign ministers of Denmark and Greenland planning to meet with U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance and Secretary of State Marco Rubio here

in Washington on Wednesday. Greenland's government has declared it will not accept a U.S. takeover under any circumstances, reaffirming its commitment

to remain part of NATO and part of Denmark.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENS-FREDERIK NIELSEN, GREENLANDIC PRIME MINISTER (through translator): Greenland does not want to be owned by the USA. Greenland does not want to

be governed by the USA. Greenland will not be a part of the USA. We choose the Greenland we know today, which is part of the Kingdom of Denmark. Now,

we are faced with a geopolitical crisis. And if we have to choose between the USA and Denmark, here and now, we choose Denmark. We choose NATO. We

choose the Kingdom of Denmark. And we choose the E.U.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: This comes days after President Trump said that if he is unable to make a deal to acquire Greenland the easy way, his words, then he will

have to take the island the hard way, again his words. Nic Robertson traveled to Nuuk, the capital of Greenland, to find out exactly how locals

feel about the attention from the U.S. president.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): It's 11:00 a.m., daybreak off the coast of Greenland. The strategic Danish

island President Trump wants for American security. 150 miles from the Arctic Circle, it is a winter wonderland of stark, snowy beauty.

ROBERTSON: Out here in these remote fields, it seems impossible to imagine that this tranquil Arctic wilderness could really be at the heart of a

geopolitical crisis that has the United States pitted against its NATO allies, potentially threatening to upend decades of global security.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Aron Josvassen, an Inuit, a native Greenlander, is taking a seal hunting. Food from the land sea is a core Inuit connection

with nature, a cultural totem.

ROBERTSON: So, I know we're waiting for the seal, looking out for the seal. But Donald Trump says there's Russian and Chinese ships here. Where

are they?

ARON JOSVASSEN, CAPTAIN: There are no ships from China or Russia.

ROBERTSON: Donald Trump says that it's not enough just to be friends with Greenland have a treaty, that he has to own it. What do you say?

JOSVASSEN: I'm afraid, the nature will be destroyed and many animals will disappear.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Greenland is massive, more than 1,600 miles from Arctic tip to Atlantic tail, so wide it straddles several time zones. It is

also geographically strategic, sits right between the U.S. and Russia, adjacent to newly thawing polar shipping lanes.

But despite its size, barely 57,000 people live on the ice-shrouded island, most of them like Aron Inuit.

SARA OLSVIG, CHAIR, INIUT CIRCUMPOLAR COUNCIL: We are people of the Arctic. We have specialized skills in surviving and thriving in the Arctic.

Inuit have been here in Greenland for 4,500 years, at least, maybe longer.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Sarah Olsvig is also Inuit, a former Greenland politician in the Danish parliament, stands up for Inuit rights.

ROBERTSON: But President Trump now says that he has to own Greenland. That's the only way, psychologically, that he thinks that the deal will be

right.

OLSVIG: If the case is so that he really thinks that Greenland is so important for the US, well, then there's something to talk about. And let's

solve it through dialogue.

ROBERTSON: Is there a dignified dialogue right now?

OLSVIG: I think we are far from what we would call a dignified dialogue. I think that's obvious. Silence has a significance in our culture.

ROBERTSON: So, how do you deal with somebody loud, like Donald Trump, and be heard?

OLSVIG: Hopefully, there will continue to be a path in a respectful manner for creating stronger bonds of partnerships. But that doesn't mean, you

know, that coercion or taking over or annexing.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Inuits are traditionally quiet. But what they say now will be the single biggest factor facing a Trump takeover. Mia Chemnitz

is a successful businesswoman, has been silent until now.

[18:10:00]

ROBERTSON: Does Donald Trump understand Greenland?

MIA CHERMINTZ, FASHION DESIGNER: I'm afraid that he understands everything and that he doesn't care.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): She specializes in Inuit clothing. Her store is doing well with locals and tourists. But she's got orders to fill. So,

she's taking us to her workshop.

CHERMINTZ: Donald Trump and his government, they know about them, all the agreements between Denmark and Greenland the U.S. They know everything.

They are very welcome to invest in Greenland. We're always looking for investments we want to develop. I don't think it's about that.

ROBERTSON: What's it about?

CHERMINTZ: I think it's about land.

ROBERTSON: Donald Trump wants a big country?

CHERMINTZ: I'm afraid so, yes.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Inside her tiny workshop, she is busy, ready to hire more staff. Items like seal mitts, jackets and trousers, making a

comeback. Exports possible because the animals are hunted for food, as well as the hides. But Trump's Greenland grab is crimping her business, putting

her own expansion plans on hold.

CHERMINTZ: Well, if you don't know which country you're living in in a month, then, you know.

ROBERTSON: Is that real for you right now?

CHERMINTZ: No, I don't want it to be real. I really try to push that thought down. But that is the worst-case scenario that, you know, in a

month I'm American. We don't even have military in Greenland because we don't do war.

So, of course, you know, there would be -- I don't know, you know, we wouldn't be able to resist the American military. No one can resist the

American military.

ROBERTSON: Trump isn't the first president to try to get Greenland. The U.S. tried shortly after buying Alaska from Russia more than 150 years ago,

tried again in 1910. And then after World War II, U.S. President Harry Truman secretly offered Denmark $100 million in gold. This time, Donald

Trump seems determined to have it his way.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Our Nic Robertson there in Greenland joining me now, retired Lieutenant General Ben Hodges, former commander of the U.S. Army in Europe.

Good to have you on, sir. Thanks for joining.

LT. GEN. BEN HODGES (RET.), FORMER COMMANDER OF U.S. ARMY EUROPE: Thank you, Jim. Thank you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: So, lots to talk about with this on multiple levels. First, on this idea of the U.S. taking Greenland via military force, which Trump and

others in his administration have refused to take off the table, you say that's actually unlikely. I wonder, what if the U.S. simply uses another

form of duress, right? If it's not, you know, sending in the Marines, it's cutting off Denmark from any U.S. trade or tripling tariffs on them. I

imagine there are multiple options he could pursue.

HODGES: Well, certainly the president has a lot of different things at his disposal he could do. But I think increasingly people are realizing this

would be probably the biggest own goal in American foreign policy history, or at least in the last 50 or 60 years, something that's totally

unnecessary, that's ruining relationships with allies, and it's going to cost us significantly on our strategic interests for something that's not

even necessary.

SCIUTTO: Yes, I spoke to a member of the Danish parliament who used exactly that terminology, saying they were the biggest damage to the West,

self-inflicted in years. He even said in history. You have said that Europe should take Trump seriously, but to head this off to some degree, send

significant forces to Ukraine, not so much to defend against the U.S. invasion, but to address what Trump claims is his motivation here, that is

that Greenland is unprotected, undefended.

HODGES: So, I think that the United States has protected Europe for decades. We helped rebuild Europe after the Second World War. And so, now,

it's an opportunity for our European allies to say, OK, to the U.S., you've protected us, we're going to help you now, and we're going to increase our

capabilities and our posture in the Arctic to include protecting Greenland. And there are several nations that could do this.

Now, I personally don't believe this is actually about security, but this is how Europeans could either call the president's bluff or actually do

something that would be appropriate to help defend this territory. But I think just listening to Nic's report before this, you know, there are no

Chinese ships circling Greenland. There are no Russian ships out there. And there's hardly any American troops there because we took them out. So, this

is -- I don't believe this is about security.

SCIUTTO: Yes. I mean, this is under existing agreements the U.S. could put in many thousands of U.S. troops, ships, aircraft tomorrow under that

existing agreement.

[18:15:00]

My understanding from speaking to Danish officials, Greenland officials, and you've heard this in their public comments too, they're not going to

accept this. They are saying no quite publicly. If they continue to do so, but if President Trump and his team continue to insist, then we're at an

impasse with, the U.S. is at an impasse with a treaty ally. What does that mean for, not just for the relationship with Denmark, but what would that

mean for NATO?

HODGES: Well, of course, the United States depends on bases, access throughout Europe, and we, our allies give us those bases. The operation

just a couple of weeks ago to seize a Russian tanker was only possible because U.K. allowed us to fly capability into U.K. We depend on them, all

on our allies all the time.

Much of the intelligence that the United States depends on does not come from American satellites, but it comes from allies. And of course, those

intelligence sharing agreements are based on trust. And then finally, you know, there are some other European countries that have territory in the

Western hemisphere. I think some of them are going to start worrying, you know, are they next?

And, Jim, one last thing. According to Article 6 of our constitution, treaties like the Washington Treaty, which created NATO, are the law of the

land. So, it would be an unlawful order if the administration told our military to seize Greenland. And that's where the real impasse is going to

be.

SCIUTTO: Are you saying that Europe, if pressed, and if Trump presses forward, should consider at least in retaliation denying U.S. access to

those bases in Europe as a, well, retaliation?

HODGES: Well, certainly, our European allies are not without their own means or their own leverage. Access to bases is one of those things. The

intelligence sharing is one of those things. And of course, you know, Europe is America's biggest trading partner. None of this is guaranteed.

There are economic tools that our European allies could use against us if they felt that this was appropriate.

Now, obviously, I hope that you and I are not going to keep talking about the same subject for weeks because cooler heads will prevail and people

will realize this is unnecessary and this is a catastrophe for the United States long-term.

SCIUTTO: We'll see, right? Because, of course, this desire goes back to the first administration, Trump's first administration, when he was making

the same demands. Well, we'll see if he gives up this time. General Ben Hodges, thanks so much for joining.

HODGES: Thanks for the privilege.

SCIUTTO: Coming up on "The Brief," what's next for Venezuela? A prominent opposition leader joins us live to share his insights.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:20:00]

SCIUTTO: Venezuela now, President Trump plans to meet on Thursday with Maria Corina Machado, the Venezuelan opposition leader and last year's

winner of the Nobel Peace Prize, this according to a senior White House official.

Trump today criticized five fellow Republicans for helping Democrats advance a war powers resolution for Venezuela, which would limit future

U.S. military action there without explicit approval from Congress.

The Venezuelan government has begun releasing some political prisoners. However, the progress much slower than many expected and hoped for.

Joining me now is a Venezuelan opposition leader, Leopoldo Lopez. Thanks so much for joining.

LEOPOLD LOPEZ, VENEZUELAN OPPOSITION LEADER: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: So, we are a little over a week out since this quite remarkable U.S. military operation in Caracas. The Trump administration, as you know,

has removed Maduro, but left the rest of his government military security forces in place. Is Venezuela any less authoritarian or more democratic

today than it was a week and a half ago?

LOPEZ: Oh, it's very simple for us Venezuelans. We're much better off today than what we were 10 days ago. Ten days ago, the expectation for

change was far, was uncertain. Now, Maduro has been removed. He will face his crimes. I myself spent seven years in prison, once was sentenced to 14

years of imprisonment for saying that Maduro was the head of a criminal organization and was linked to drug trafficking.

So, we Venezuelans know that this has been going on for years. And the consequences have been tremendous. The consequences has been the complete

collapse of our country. That's why Venezuela represents the largest migration crisis in the planet, because of Nicolas Maduro.

But not only that, Venezuela became the hub of organized crime globally. The FARC, the ELN from Colombia, the drug cartels from Colombia, from

Mexico, Hezbollah, the kleptocratic crime structure of Russia, they all have presence in Venezuela.

SCIUTTO: Right.

LOPEZ: So, this is a very significant first step to where we want to go. Where do we want to go? What's the hope of millions of Venezuelans? That we

have democracy. So, what we hope is that what started on January the 3rd lands in a democratic process that allows us to live fully free and with a

full democracy.

SCIUTTO: Before we get to elections, which I do want to ask you about, is Delcy Rodriguez, the current president, and Maduro's, of course, former

vice president, any less tied to drug cartels, any less brutal when it comes to political prisoners, dissidents like yourself?

LOPEZ: No, absolutely not. Delcy Rodriguez is the vice president of Nicolas Maduro. She has been instrumental in both shaping the repressive

machinery of Venezuela, and she has been instrumental and the head of the kleptocratic structure of Venezuela. So, Delcy Rodriguez, the interim

dictator of Venezuela, is clearly a part of the system.

Does that mean that things remain exactly the same? No, because up until January the 3rd, the Maduro regime thought that there was a threat, but

that it was not credible. They thought that it was all bluffing, that it was all a poker game to basically scare them out.

Now, they know that this is serious. Now, they know that there needs to be changes. And there are some very short-term things that need to happen in

Venezuela, on our perspective, from our perspective, the Venezuelan democratic movement, the release of political prisoners. This needs to

happen soon. It has been announced by Delcy Rodriguez, but it has not been materialized. There are almost 1,000 political prisoners in Venezuela, many

of them my friends. Many of them are being tortured, and they need to be released very, very quick.

[18:25:00]

SCIUTTO: Are you confident that the Trump administration has a transition plan for democratic elections? If so, when? And who will be allowed to run?

LOPEZ: Well, I am confident that that is where we need to go. I am confident that that is the natural conclusion of what started not just in

January the 3rd, it started way before. The engagement through sanctions, through diplomatic pressure to produce a transition to democracy in

Venezuela.

And we Venezuelans have agency on this. This is what we have been fighting for, for decades. That's why many of us have gone to prison. That's why we

continue to fight in every single terrain. We have gone to elections. We have taken the streets. We have gone to get diplomatic pressure. We

supported the use of the law enforcement to remove Maduro.

But we know that in order for Venezuela to be finally fully democratic and respectful of human rights, we need to build that road. And that's what I

think we need to do, of course, with the support of the United States, but primarily with the Venezuelan people.

SCIUTTO: What was your reaction to hear President Trump, after this operation, to say that Maria Corina Machado, who, as you know, was -- well,

she was excluded from running in the most recent presidential elections, and her partner, it is believed, actually won those elections, when Trump

said she doesn't have the support or respect of the Venezuelan people. What was your reaction to hearing that?

LOPEZ: Well, it's not what we expected. But we understand that there is a priority now, as President Trump and Secretary Rubio have said, to

stabilize the country, to promote economic growth. And we agree with those two goals. But we need to push the democracy agenda. And it's already being

spoken about. It's -- Secretary Rubio already spoke about the importance of this entire process reaching a point where there is finally an election and

the will of the people to be respected. And let me be very clear about this. It's not that Edmundo Gonzalez was thought to win the election, he

won the election, and he won with 70 percent of the vote.

And let me tell you something that I think is very interesting. Today, there was a poll that was published in The Economist, and it was quite

clear of what I'm telling you. What I'm telling you is not my position, it's what the Venezuelan people believe. Almost 65 percent of the people

support the military action or the law enforcement action that removed Maduro.

SCIUTTO: To take Maduro.

LOPEZ: People are hopeful. People want elections. More than 70 percent of the people want elections. So, what I am saying right now is the will of

the Venezuelan people. And we, the Venezuelan people, with the main responsibility on our democratic leadership, we have to build and push that

path towards democracy.

SCIUTTO: So, when Maria Corina Machado meets the president on Thursday, it's believed that she's going to offer her Nobel Peace Prize to him,

perhaps because she feels she needs to. Is that -- does he deserve it, or does the leader of the opposition, who has, like yourself, sacrificed so

much fighting the Maduro regime, deserve that recognition?

LOPEZ: Well, what I believe is that President Trump deserves recognition for having removed Maduro. I think that is, as I said, very significant.

And as I said before, it has the support of the huge majority of the Venezuelan people. And I believe that the priority should be on building

the path towards the final transition to democracy. That's what I hope would be the core of the conversation and the conclusion of that very

important meeting on Thursday.

SCIUTTO: Leopold Lopez, thanks so much. We hope that you get what you're hoping for.

LOPEZ: Thank you very much.

SCIUTTO: Thanks for joining. In today's Business Breakout, U.S. stocks finished Tuesday's session in the red, the S&P 500 falling from its record

highs. New numbers showed that consumer prices rose at a stronger-than- expected 2.7 percent annual rate in December, way above the Fed's 2 percent target. The month-over-month pace of inflation accelerated as well.

President Trump, however, insisted once again in a speech today the cost of living is going down. It's not true.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Grocery prices are starting to go rapidly down, rent is down, airfares are down, hotel rates are down, cell phone

prices are down. And we're just getting started.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: The CEO of JPMorgan Chase, Jamie Dimon, warned today that one of the president's affordability goals, a one-year cap on credit card interest

rates, will backfire and actually cost consumers in the long run. Dimon warned that the Trump administration's criminal probe targeting the Fed

chair, Jerome Powell, could push inflation higher as well.

JPMorgan Chase shares fell more than 4 percent Tuesday after the bank posted disappointing investment banking results. Its Q4 earnings, however,

did top Wall Street estimates.

[18:30:00]

Some of the world's top central bankers expressed solidarity with the Fed chair in his fight with the Trump Justice Department. The heads of the ECB,

the Bank of England, the Bank of Canada and others, all stressed the importance of the Fed's independence. Their statement says Powell has

served with integrity and has been a strong advocate for integrity and has, quote, "an unwavering commitment" to the public interest. And here in

Washington, more Senate Republicans say that they, as well, are opposed to the DOJ's investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): I know Chairman Powell very well. I will be stunned. I will be shocked if he has done anything wrong.

SEN. ROGER MARSHALL (R-KS): I think this is the president throwing out one more, maybe he's even almost trolling here as well. We got bigger issues to

go after than this one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: House Speaker Mike Johnson, however, said he believes the probe should continue. The Justice Department is looking into what Powell told

Congress about the ongoing renovations of the Fed's headquarters.

Just ahead, we're going to bring you the latest on the ICE shooting death of a mother in Minneapolis and why federal prosecutors there are now

resigning. We'll have more after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." I'm Jim Sciutto, and here are the international headlines we're watching today.

President Trump is sending a message to anti-government protesters in Iran as he attempts to turn up the heat on the regime. In an online post today,

he wrote, keep protesting, take over your institutions, help is on the way. Trump says he has canceled all negotiations with Iranian officials until

they end their brutal and deadly crackdown.

Former President Bill Clinton could face contempt proceedings for failing to appear before the U.S. House Oversight Committee. The former president

and first lady, Hillary Clinton, have refused to testify in the House probe on the convicted sex offender, Jeffrey Epstein. Their lawyers say they've

already provided all the information they have about Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell.

[18:35:00]

The U.S. Supreme Court heard arguments today in two cases concerning transgender athletes. One asked whether states can separate school sports

teams on the grounds of biological sex without violating civil rights law. The other, whether trans restrictions violate the Constitution's Equal

Protection Clause.

At least six federal prosecutors in Minnesota have now resigned after the Trump administration put pressure on the investigation into the killing of

Renee Good, the Minneapolis mother of three, was shot and killed by an ICE agent last week. According to a person briefed on those resignations, the

White House has been demanding that the focus of the probe should focus on Good, on her widow, and other people who may have been activists, instead

of on the actions of the agent who shot and killed her.

Charles Kuck is a founding partner at Kuck Baxter Immigration Law, and he joins me now. Thanks so much for joining.

CHARLES KUCK, FOUNDING PARTNER, KUCK BAXTER IMMIGRATION: Thanks for having me, Jim.

SCIUTTO: So, watching these videos across Minneapolis, what ICE agents are doing, it's not just in Minneapolis, they're stopping people, demanding

proof of citizenship. They say, quite glibly, they're doing citizenship checks. It appears they are basing these stops purely on how people look.

Is that legal?

KUCK: Well, no. The answer is no, it's not legal. We do have a really interesting rule, a judicially created rule in the United States, that does

allow the Border Patrol to, quote, "check for papers" within 100 miles of the border. But they can only do this if they have reasonable suspicion.

What they're doing now seems to stem from a September 2025, let's say, footnote, really, from Justice Kavanaugh, in a completely unrelated manner,

that basically said, you know what, if you're stopped and you're a citizen, it's really just a minor inconvenience, and you'll be on your way. What we,

as we've seen from these videos, that doesn't always happen. And frequently, they aren't on their way, they're arrested, and then released

at a different place later on.

SCIUTTO: Yes. I mean, they're threatened. I mean, you see some of them, and I was watching one earlier today, and say, well, if you don't show me,

I'm going to take you in the car, we're going to do this ID check. You're referring to that footnote, which has developed this term, the Kavanaugh

stop, which has become shorthand for, it sounds like a court justification for some sort of racial profiling, that officers can take into account

appearance, language, et cetera. I mean, do these stops meet that standard from a legal perspective?

KUCK: These stops exceed that standard, even. But this apparently got to Justice Kavanaugh, that they were calling these Kavanaugh stops. And in a

footnote in another case last month, he wrote, wait a second, you can't stop people and ask them for their papers just based on their race or

ethnicity or their accent.

So, now, even Justice Kavanaugh has backstepped from the Kavanaugh stop. But that message has not gotten to the Border Patrol or to ICE, who keep

relying on the September footnote from Justice Kavanaugh's decision.

SCIUTTO: So, what is the legal recourse then? Because this is happening every day, many times a day. People being subjected sometimes to violence,

right, by ICE agents, based on their claim to have this right to demand proof of citizenship. What's the legal recourse here?

KUCK: The legal recourse are civil rights actions against the DHS, as Border Patrol or ICE agents. It has to be of a sufficient volume that it

gets the attention of the Justice Department. And when they're flooded with thousands of such filings, these guys may back off. They may back off on

what they've been doing.

But they do this because they can get away with it. They do this because they're not held accountable by the administration for doing it. And

they're likely keep doing it, at least for the time that the Trump administration wants this effect on the communities that are being

basically raided by the Border Patrol and ICE.

SCIUTTO: We were just showing video of how they take it a step even further. I mean, they've been going into houses, right, busting down doors,

demanding proof as well. I mean, it's certainly -- if you're telling me the law does not support this, and that even Justice Kavanaugh has attempted to

close the door to this, it strikes me that the law is not being followed here, right? I mean, that's a breakdown.

[18:40:00]

KUCK: Well, it wouldn't be the first time that ICE or the Border Patrol are not following the law. And the Border Patrol has a long history of

abusing people's rights, long before the Trump administration. And that's what brought Bovino to the attention of the Trump White House to lead these

efforts. So, this is nothing new. And a lot of times these are only constrained by an administration that wants to respect the law, rather than

an administration that wants to scare people into some sort of compliance.

But you mentioned the coming into houses. That is absolutely prohibited by the Fourth Amendment. But the only recourse is a civil rights action.

SCIUTTO: It's alarming. Charles Kuck, thanks so much for walking us through it.

KUCK: Thanks for having me.

SCIUTTO: Coming up on "The Brief," sources tell me and my colleagues that the U.S. has secretly acquired a device which may explain mysterious

ailments impacting spies, diplomats and troops. A syndrome that's come to be known as the Havana Syndrome. We're going to hear from someone who was a

victim. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: New reporting now, my colleagues and I have learned new details regarding a U.S. investigation into the mysterious illness known as Havana

Syndrome. We reported today that the U.S. has now spent more than a year testing a device which could prove to be the cause of the syndrome. The

U.S. government bought this device in a secret undercover operation in the final months of the Biden administration, according to our sources. The

price tag, we're told, was in the eight figures, many millions of dollars.

Sources tell CNN the device is compact, small enough to fit into a backpack, and produced pulsed radio waves, a potential explanation for the

symptoms associated with Havana Syndrome. Although the device is not entirely Russian in origin, one source said it does contain Russian

components. One concern, I'm told, is that multiple entities, including state and non-state actors, could potentially gain access to such

technology.

Let's take a deeper look. The illness first emerged nearly ten years ago. That's when U.S. diplomats, spies, troops in Havana, Cuba, began to report

symptoms, including vertigo, severe headaches, and other signs of brain trauma. Later, other cases of so-called Havana Syndrome were reported

worldwide. The cause has remained a mystery and the subject of some dispute.

[18:45:00]

My next guest is a former CIA officer. He says he's patient zero, the first person taken out of Cuba after suffering symptoms of what later came to be

known as Havana Syndrome. We are calling him Adam, which is not a real name, due to the CIA's demand for secrecy. Thanks so much for joining us

today. Appreciate it.

ADAM, FORMER CIA OFFICER: Thanks for having me.

SCIUTTO: So, first, tell us how you experienced Havana Syndrome, as it's known, the symptoms. You said that you blacked out.

ADAM: Yes. I mean, for me, it was a pretty stark and it was definitely a scary moment. I remember texting my brother in real time, thinking that I

may not make it out of this. You know, there's extreme head pressure, crushing ear pain, and it just ratcheted up over the course of 15, 20-plus

minutes, and it led to the point where I started blacking out from it, and that's when I knew it was time to get out of there.

SCIUTTO: Yes. What is your reaction to hearing of this step in the investigation, the U.S. acquiring a device? They haven't come to any

conclusions, but the possibility, at least, that this device may be to explain for the symptoms that you have suffered.

ADAM: Sure. I mean, I think it's exciting. You know, I've spoken to a lot of the other folks that are injured, and even though I've been called

patient zero by the press, there are many cases that preceded me, you know, going back to 2014 and earlier. So, you know, there is a longstanding

pattern of intelligence officers being struck around the world here, but, you know, we hope this is a step forward in the right direction.

I think some of us have concerns that, you know, if this has been in play for well over a year, we certainly have concerns that the IC under the

Biden administration put out an ICA in 2025 in January, basically saying, hey, there's nothing here, it's not real, we still don't believe it, all

the while they had a weapons system in hand.

So, you know, we certainly want to dig into some of the cover-up aspect of what may have happened in the last administration, but, you know, we hope

this bears fruit, we hope this answers some things, and we hope it can lead to some breakthroughs to help us with our health.

SCIUTTO: Victims, as you know, of course, and you were one of the first to go public, have said for years these attacks were very real. Do you believe

that the U.S. government wrongly downplayed the possibility of a coordinated attack?

ADAM: Oh, 100 percent. I mean, there has been significant evidence over the years that has made its way under the cutting room floor, especially

the CIA under the last administration. So, you know, we've known there's been evidence, there's been all sorts of information pointing to this being

real, who they -- you know, who the actors are, what was used, et cetera, et cetera.

So, you know, it feels like it's hopefully about time that this, you know, the truth comes out, and we're hoping this administration can bring some

clarity and some transparency to that.

SCIUTTO: One source told me that a genuine concern inside the U.S. government is that if this device proves to be responsible for this, that

this technology, these pulsed audio waves, is a technology that multiple actors, state and non-state, could conceivably get their hands on. Is that

something that concerns you, that this could proliferate?

ADAM: You know, I think it already has proliferated. I mean, we know the Chinese have a directed energy weapons program and anti-personnel weapons

program. We know the Russians have been working on this since the 1950s. So, we are many, many decades and many billions of dollars behind on the

research from the human aspect of this.

So, you know, Havana proved we were kind of a best-test-case scenario in which you can clear out an embassy out of your country. I can't think of a

better sales pitch to your adversaries than that. And we really haven't done anything in response. So, you know, it's just a matter of time before

it has proliferated, and we'll see it potentially with non-state actors here soon, would be my guess.

SCIUTTO: Are you confident now that the U.S. government, the military, the intelligence agencies will do a complete investigation to try to finally,

if they can, get to the bottom of this and develop a way to defend against it?

ADAM: You know, I hope so. We were hopeful with this administration coming in that they would take a fresh look at it. The reality is, I mean, it's

pretty clear the last administration covered this whole thing up. So, you know, we're hoping the Trump administration can come at this, expose what

happened under the last admin, and then we can kind of move forward with a fresh slate. But, you know, if they refuse to acknowledge or do that, then,

you know, they start looking like part of the cover-up as well. So, the clock is ticking.

SCIUTTO: Before we go, can I ask about your health now? Have you been able to recover from the bulk of these symptoms?

[18:50:00]

ADAM: No. I mean, everything -- I'm lucky in that I don't remember what it felt like to be normal or what I used to be like. You know, I am blind in

one eye now, and I have a whole host of other issues. But I would say that my baseline has become my baseline now, and so it goes up and down from

there. But, yes, no, I'm nowhere near who I used to be and probably never will be, according to what the doctors say.

SCIUTTO: Well, I'm sorry that you've had to suffer through this. We do appreciate you, though, sharing the details of your experience in this

story.

ADAM: Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

SCIUTTO: Take care, Adam. Coming up, we're going to take you to Australia, where a new gold rush is underway.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: The price of gold surpassed $4,600 per ounce for the first time this week. As gold prices rise, so do the number of treasure seekers. Polo

Sandoval shows us the new gold rush happening in Australia.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The lure of gold is drawing treasure hunters to Australia's Victoria State, an area known as

the Golden Triangle, where historically, some of the world's biggest gold nuggets have been discovered. But there was no eureka moment for this gold

seeker.

KELLY SMITH, GOLD HUNTER: Ah, there it is. Shotgun pellet.

SANDOVAL (voice-over): But it's not quite striking out, according to some hobbyists/prospectors if the quest is part of the reward.

SMITH: I like to walk through the bush, seeing the wildlife, and if I'm lucky, finding a little bit of gold.

SANDOVAL (voice-over): It may not be the gold rush of the mid-19th century, where hundreds of thousands of people flocked to California trying

to find their fortunes, but demand for recreational mining permits in Victoria is hitting an all-time high.

There are more than 100,000 active permits, which allow people to search for gold using only hand tools and keep anything they find. It's a chance

to potentially hit pay dirt after the price of gold surged last year to over $4,500 a troy ounce.

DAMIAN DUKE, GOLD HUNTER: Seeing what nuggets they're finding out there and what they're actually getting for them is definitely a big boost

because that can help us pay off a lot of bills, take kids out, and stuff like that. So, it's a big kicker for me.

SANDOVAL (voice-over): Tony Mills, a gold hunting tour guide, says he's one of the lucky ones and has found some pretty sizable stones.

TONY MILLS, GOLD HUNTING TOUR GUIDE: The best one was the 80-ounce nugget, yes, and I found a 70 and I found a lot of 21s, and yes, I found a lot of

decent nuggets. Not recently, other than this 3.5 ounce two months ago.

SANDOVAL (voice-over): And though most of the people dream of hitting the motherlode, others are happy to just find a little something in the dirt. A

guide estimated this pebble of gold to be worth about $27, a jackpot for those that prize the experience.

[18:55:00]

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel very good, very happy. My heart's singing a nice tune.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Before I go, after nearly four years away from the spotlight, the kings of K-pop are back.

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(MUSIC PLAYING)

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SCIUTTO: BTS have just announced dates for their highly anticipated 2026 world tour, featuring a fifth studio album expected out in March. The

seven-member band will play in more than 30 cities, with more dates set to be announced in 2027 in Japan, the Middle East and beyond. The group had to

take a pause from the stage in 2022 so members could complete their mandatory military service in South Korea. You see them there.

Thanks so much for joining us today. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. You've been watching "The Brief." Please do stay with CNN.

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[19:00:00]

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