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The Brief with Jim Sciutto
CNN International: Trump Calls to "Normalize the Voting"; Blanche: Photos in Epstein files "Horrible," But Not Enough Evidence to Prosecute; U.S. Justice Department Signals No New Charges from Epstein Releases; Partial Government Shutdown to Last Until Tuesday; UAE-Linked Firm Bought a 49 Percent Stake in the Trump Family's Cryptocurrency Firm; Rafah Crossing Partially Reopens; Russia-Ukraine Peace Talks Set in Abu Dhabi; Trump Announces U.S.-India Trade Deal. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired February 02, 2026 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR, "THE BRIEF": Hello, and welcome to our viewers, joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington, and
you're watching "The Brief."
Just ahead this hour, Donald Trump says Republicans should, quote, nationalize the voting, the power that constitutionally belongs to the
states. The president says India will stop buying Russian oil in exchange for a trade deal with the U.S. And, Bad Bunny delivers a pointed political
message at the Grammy Awards one week before his Super Bowl halftime show.
We do begin here in the U.S. with details on last week's search at a Georgia elections office by FBI agents. The New York Times is reporting
that the next day, Tulsi Gabbard, the director of national intelligence, arranged a call between President Donald Trump and some of those agents.
The FBI is investigating alleged voter fraud in the 2020 presidential election, though a review by the Justice Department around that time did
not find anything to corroborate his claims of widespread fraud.
Now, Fulton County says it will challenge the FBI's search and seizure in court. In a new interview, President Trump says that he believes
Republicans should, quote, "nationalize" future elections.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: The Republicans should say, we want to take over, we should take over the voting in at least many, 15 places. The
Republicans ought to nationalize the voting. We have states that are so crooked, and they're counting votes. We have states that I won that show I
didn't win. Now, you're going to see something in Georgia, where they were able to get with the court order, the ballots. You're going to see some
interesting things come out. But, you know, like the 2020 election. I won that election by so much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: That's not true. It's false. A false claim repeated many times by the president. This was a podcast interview hosted by Dan Bongino, who
briefly served as deputy director of the FBI.
Joining me now from the White House, Kristen Holmes. So, Kristen, we have this raid at Fulton County in Georgia. We have the director of national
intelligence who oversees intelligence agencies focused on external threats to this country down there. We have the president saying Republicans should
nationalize the vote, which is a power constitutionally given to the states. And we have the president speaking on the phone with some of those
FBI agents in Florida. What is your best sense of what this administration is trying to do here?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It's unclear what the endgame is, but we do know that President Trump wants to prove and show
evidence that the election was stolen from him in 2020. And that is what he has sent Tulsi Gabbard to do when she went down there to kind of oversee
this search in Atlanta.
One of the things that I was told from a source at the White House was that President Trump had directed her to go down there for that search, that he
wants her leading the effort when it comes to, quote/unquote, "election integrity." And you heard him talking there about this nationalization. I
mean, we have spoken to a number of legal experts as well as federal judges who have been on CNN's air today, all saying that that would be
unconstitutional, as you note yourself.
But President Trump, it's unclear if he wants to actually move towards action or if he just wants to be able to prove or say that he can prove
that this election was stolen from him. It's something that he's been fixated on. I mean, remember, we're not even talking about the last
election.
We're talking about six years ago in 2020. President Trump continues to claim that he won that election. Now, he talks about 15 states. The number
of states that he generally focuses on is smaller than that. We know Minnesota is one of them. Georgia, of course, is one of them. But they are
going to continue likely to have this kind of searches of election offices to try and have Gabbard out there getting information from FBI agents, even
though that technically doesn't fall under her purview at all, although I was told by a White House official that she's kind of carved this lane out
for herself.
I mean, one thing to keep in mind here is that she came in pretty inexperienced to get that director of national intelligence job, and for
quite some time she was on the outs with President Trump and the rest of the administration. Since she has picked up this kind of pet project of
President Trump's on the election, she has gained stature back with the administration and with President Trump and the rest of the administration.
[18:05:00]
Since she has picked up this kind of pet project of President Trump in particular. But it is, again, unclear, Jim. We've obviously reached out on
what they're hoping to do here. Is this an actual mandate? Is this something they're looking into, or is this all about the fact that
President Trump wants to be able to continue to say that he won the 2020 election? But I will note, of course, Jim, despite whatever they find, it
is likely he'll continue to say that anyway.
SCIUTTO: That is something that the last six years have proven. Kristen Holmes at the White House, thanks so much.
No new charges, that is the latest from the Department of Justice after unloading millions of pages tied to the investigation of Jeffrey Epstein.
Victims are outraged following thousands of redactions like this one you're seeing here, but failures as well. Lawyers for Epstein's victims now suing
for that trench to be taken down. They're worried about identities being revealed and details. The New York Times says it's come across dozens of
images that showed unredacted nude photos of young women, possibly even teenagers, with their faces visible.
The paper says officials have now largely taken those photos down, and the DOJ tells CNN it is working around the clock to fix the issue. One person
is mentioned more than 1,000 times in that latest tranche of documents, and that is President Donald Trump. We should note that includes passing
mentions, as well as newly disclosed and unverified claims of sexual assault. Tom Foreman takes a closer look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TRUMP: I didn't see it myself, but I was told by some very important people that not only does it absolve me, it's the opposite of what people
were hoping.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The newly released documents do contain a list compiled last year by the FBI of unproven allegations
that President Donald Trump committed sexual assault, including one woman saying he raped her when she was just 13. That same woman sued Trump in
2016 over the claims, but dropped the lawsuit shortly after bringing them.
In another section, one of Jeffrey Epstein's victims says Ghislaine Maxwell presented her to Trump at a party. When asked about this, the White House
points to a Justice Department statement that the files may include, quote, "fake or false submitted images, documents, or videos," and Trump has
always denied such allegations.
TODD BLANCHE, U.S. DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: In July, the Department of Justice said that we had reviewed the files, the, quote, "Epstein files,"
and there was nothing in there that allowed us to prosecute anybody.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Still, the files have put a number of high-profile people in an unwanted spotlight. A series of photos appears to show former
British Prince Andrew kneeling by a woman or girl on the floor. There is no context, and CNN's requests for comment were not immediately answered.
Billionaire Elon Musk has previously said he refused an invitation to Epstein's island. The documents suggest he wanted to be there for the
wildest party. After the release, Musk posted, I have never been to any Epstein parties ever and have many times called for the prosecution of
those who have committed crimes with Epstein.
Howard Lutnick, Trump's secretary of commerce, said he and his wife decided to cut ties with Epstein two decades ago.
HOWARD LUTNICK, U.S. COMMERCE SECRETARY: My wife and I decided that I will never be in the room with that disgusting person ever again.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Yet the documents point to at least a couple of attempts to socialize with Epstein after that. The Commerce Department says
Secretary Lutnick had limited interactions with Mr. Epstein in the presence of his wife and has never been accused of wrongdoing.
Another one-time top Trump adviser, Steve Bannon, appears in the files, at times mocking the president, and the famous names go on, though notably
many show no links to any potential illegality.
Dinner invitations for Woody Allen, Martha Stewart and Katie Couric, who said here, I know you're not a foodie, but the lasagna was rocking.
Billionaire Richard Branson, New York Giants owner Steve Tisch are mentioned, and so is Brett Ratner, seen in a photo on a sofa with Epstein
and some young women. He's the director of that new "Melania" Trump film.
The new release brought at least one fresh controversy, too. The New York Times raised the possibility that the Justice Department had released
nearly 40 unredacted images showing both nude bodies and the faces of the people portrayed, noting the people in the photos appeared to be young.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Thanks to Tom Foreman. Joining me now, Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell from California. Congressman, good to have you back.
REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D-CA), CALIFORNIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: Yes, of course, Jim. Thanks for having me back.
SCIUTTO: So, Blanche, the Deputy Attorney General, says there will be no additional prosecutions tied to Epstein, despite all these documents. Do
you believe the DOJ has demonstrated that it conducted a thorough investigation?
[18:10:00]
SWALWELL: No. In fact, it looks like the DOJ has sought to do two things. One, protect Donald Trump as much as possible. And we've seen a number of
times where they've posted something about Trump and then they've removed something about Trump on their website. So, it looks like they're seeking
to protect him.
And then, bizarrely, I don't know what the motive is here, they are exploiting the victims even further by, you know, outing them in ways in
these new releases. Look, you don't have to be a father of a little girl to care about the women who were exploited in this case. Everyone is sickened
by it. I am a father of a little girl and my promise to the victims is I will do everything along with my colleagues on the Democratic side to seek
justice in this case.
SCIUTTO: You said recently at a hearing that when you speak to Republicans behind closed doors they will criticize the president. On this issue, do
you see any Republicans who are willing to publicly say we need more? I mean, they did vote against the president to release these files, right?
But to explore these further, do you see them laying down once again in effect and letting the president rule the day?
SWALWELL: I actually think they're out there now. Almost every single one of them voted to release the files. They want to see everyone connected to
this, you know, to be questioned. And so, they recognize that this is coming from their constituents because their constituents were promised
that justice would come. And so, we're not going away on this at all.
But I will say this. I had a hearing with Kash Patel a couple months ago and I asked him how many times Trump was mentioned. I started around a
thousand times. I went all the way down to like 50 times. He thought I was, you know, trying to be sensational. And it turns out I just wasn't asking
him a high enough number and it looks like we still don't truly know the full extent that Donald Trump was connected to this guy.
But what really is striking, Jim, is that it appears that Jeffrey Epstein knew almost everybody in the world. And of everybody that he knew, and it
was mentioned in your earlier reporting, the person that he called his best friend was Donald Trump.
SCIUTTO: Let's talk, if we can, about a couple other topics in the news. One, of course, is the looming deadline on the government shutdown. It's
unclear if Republicans eventually on the House side manage to get the votes here and what happens on the Senate side.
But from your perspective as a Democrat, should Democrats, both in the House and the Senate, be willing to shut down the government to get the
changes that they're demanding from ICE, among other things, for instance, requiring court orders, court judicial warrants, as opposed to
administrative warrants?
SWALWELL: We should shut down the public executions. And most of the government is already funded. We're talking about the Department of
Homeland Security. And I'm not going to vote to give them a penny so that we can see the murder of another nurse named Pretti or a mom named Good.
The reforms that I am seeking and most of my colleagues on the Democratic side are seeking is to end the roving patrols where you target people based
on the color of their skin and the accent that they speak. The DHS has admitted in court that they do this.
To have the mask come off and identification to come out. To get rid of the qualified immunity that makes these guys think that they are invincible. To
have actual judges who oversee the criminal standard of probable cause to issue warrants in these cases. So, there's a lot of demands that are coming
forward because they have not earned our trust in the community. And if we do nothing and just co-sign on this, you're only going to see more
community terror.
SCIUTTO: That sounds like the demands Democrats made regarding those elevated ACA subsidies that led to the last shutdown eventually, government
opened up and the Democrats did not get those enhanced subsidies here. Do you believe that you and your colleagues on these demands will hold your
ground?
SWALWELL: Yes. That was a handful of Senate Democrats. That wasn't my House Democratic, you know, colleagues. And in fact, we've seen in the
Senate leadership, some over there will write eight-page strongly worded letters while the rest of us, you know, want to have a more show, don't
tell approach to fighting for healthcare and protecting immigrants.
So, I think Democrats are going to stand up to stop the public executions. Bodies are piling up right now. And they look at a president who said on
day one, he would lower costs. He's 0 for 380. Donald Trump said he would cut prices, instead, he's killing people. That's what his administration is
doing. And we're not going to let this continue for another day.
SCIUTTO: On ICE, Stephen Miller, who, of course, is the architect of this policy to a great degree. He has said that ice may not have been following
proper protocol when it shot and killed Pretti. Do you see or have you seen any substantive changes in the way ice carries out these operations as not
just Miller, but Trump and Kristi Noem have acknowledged some or at least the potential for some mistakes?
[18:15:00]
SWALWELL: It is pretty rich that he would say that now, right? Because in the 24 hours after Mr. Pretti's murder, Stephen Miller and others were
calling him a domestic terrorist. His family was still grieving, and they were just doing a drive-by smear job on the guy. Thankfully, they can shove
lies in our ears, but they can't shove lies in our eyes. We saw this murder in 4K, and I have not seen a change in the posture in Minnesota.
I've not seen the change in California as people run through the factories and the farms where they work. Body cameras have been announced today. That
is just a first step, and it doesn't go anywhere near the length that we need to protect the most vulnerable in our community.
SCIUTTO: If I can, before we go, I want to ask you about the collection of activities we're seeing around Fulton County in Georgia, not just an FBI
raid, but the president calling some of the FBI agents involved. You got the director of national intelligence down there, who, as you know better
than me, is a member of the Intelligence Committee, job is focusing on foreign threats and overseeing the intelligence agencies. What do you
believe the goal is here by this operation, and can we connect it to the president's other comments, for instance, about nationalizing elections?
SWALWELL: Yes, absolutely. Donald Trump wants to rewrite an election that he lost and that has been litigated, and another network paid $780 million
for the lies they told to back up what Donald Trump was saying, and he wants to deter people from voting at the midterms.
And so, the best thing we can do is to see rock-strong governors in blue states max out access to democracy. We still vote in our states, and it's a
very decentralized system, and so if they are maxing out access to the ballot box, we can overcome the corrupt nature of Donald Trump to try and
do what he did back in 2020, again, on a larger scale here through ICE, through the Postal Service, through the National Guard. It really means
turning out in the streets and for governors to max out at the ballot box access for every American.
SCIUTTO: Congressman Eric Swalwell, appreciate you joining.
SWALWELL: My pleasure. Thanks, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Coming up on "The Brief," President Trump says India will no longer buy oil from Russia. What are the details? We'll have them next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: In today's business breakout, Wall Street closed higher with the Dow jumping more than 1 percent than NASDAQ and S&P. Also, as you can see
under the session in green, Alphabet and Amazon rose ahead of their quarterly reports this week. Gold prices, however, they continue to fall.
Bitcoin is down about 10 percent so far this year.
[18:20:00]
We learned that an investment firm linked to the UAE reportedly paid half a billion dollars for a major stake in President Trump family's
cryptocurrency firm, World Liberty Financial. The Wall Street Journal says the deal was signed just four days before President Trump was sworn into
office last January.
According to the Journal, one of the investors is this man, Sheikh Tahnoon bin Zayed Al Nahyan, UAE's national security adviser and manager of its
sovereign wealth fund. CNN has reached out to the UAE embassy for comment. World Liberty Financial later confirmed the deal, adding that President
Trump was, it said, not involved in the transaction.
One of the company's founders is Steve Witkoff, Trump's special envoy to the Middle East. Many Democrats and other critics say the deal poses a
major conflict of interest. Senator Elizabeth Warren is calling for congressional scrutiny.
Joining me now is Richard Painter. He's professor of law at the University of Minnesota. He served as White House ethics lawyer for President George
W. Bush. Richard, good to have you.
RICHARD PAINTER, FORMER WHITE HOUSE ETHICS LAWYER: Thank you for having me.
SCIUTTO: First question for you directly. Is this arrangement, this purchase ethical by the standards of the office of the presidency?
PAINTER: Well, it may very well be illegal under (INAUDIBLE) the Constitution. This is a foreign emolument, a payment from a foreign
government, individuals associated with a foreign government to a person holding a position of trust with the United States government. That's
prohibited under the Emoluments Clause of the Constitution, and that applies not just to the president, but anybody holding a position of trust
with the United States government, including Mr. Witkoff.
SCIUTTO: If ethics oversight was working right now in this country as relates to the office of the presidency, what would, what should happen now
following this revelation?
PAINTER: As I told the Senate Banking Committee last July in their cryptocurrency hearing, I believe the president should divest from Liberty
Financial and from any and all businesses in the crypto space. And one of the reasons is the involvement of foreign governments and foreign sovereign
wealth funds in making investments in those companies.
The president of the United States should not be in the crypto business while regulating the crypto business. That's a fundamental conflict of
interest. And furthermore, there's too much foreign government money going into these crypto firms. So, President Trump should have divested any of
his interest in Liberty Financial when he became president in January of 2025.
SCIUTTO: He claims he doesn't know about this deal, and he claims it's only his sons who are involved overseeing that. Is that a credible claim?
And is the claim itself sufficient?
PAINTER: Well, we're all talking about the deal. It is in the news. He may not be watching CNN. He may be watching Fox News or Newsmax, and maybe they
don't want to report on the deal, but everybody knows about the deal. And second, it doesn't matter who's managing the company and who's involved in
running the company. The question is who owns the company.
And the president of the United States has an interest, a substantial financial interest in Liberty Financial, and that Liberty Financial is
doing business with foreign governments and foreign sovereign wealth funds. This is not permitted under the United States Constitution for any
emoluments, profits or benefits to be going to any person holding a position of trust with the U.S. government. And that's the beginning of the
conflicts of interest.
The other conflict of interest, of course, is the president of the United States is in charge of the executive branch, which regulates the
cryptocurrency industry or is supposed to regulate the cryptocurrency industry. And yet, the president is going to be a crypto billionaire. I
mean, this is the same president who just a few years ago said that crypto was a fraud. So, the whole thing is very discouraging vantage point of
ethics and also confidence, public confidence in the cryptocurrency markets.
SCIUTTO: The White House says the president's assets are in a family managed trust, and they claim because of that there is no conflict despite
the president's power as overseeing the market in effect under federal ethics norms and laws. Is that a sufficient argument?
[18:25:00]
PAINTER: No, we don't care who manages the trust. We care about who has a financial interest in the assets of the trust. President Trump has a
financial interest in Liberty Financial, and he knows he does. It doesn't matter who's managing and how many trusts you put in a place that's
irrelevant. Question is, what does he own? What does he know that he owns? And what is he doing as president of the United States? That's with respect
to the conflicts of interest issue.
The second issue, of course, is foreign government money from any sovereign wealth fund cannot constitutionally go to any person holding a position of
trust with the United States government.
SCIUTTO: Yes. What is the state right now of ethics, norms, regulations, oversight as relates to the office of the presidency, given that this is
not an isolated instance here? There have been other cases, other stories about family interests and businesses over which the president and his
family have financial interests. Is there any more oversight that you can discern?
PAINTER: I don't see any oversight. A lot of his agency inspectors general were fired. The head of the United States Office of Government Ethics was
fired by the president, and the attorney general is doing whatever the president wants her to do. So, even if a criminal statute were violated,
unless the defendant is a Democrat or something like that, nobody's going to get indicted.
I'd now have to say the Biden administration was not exactly impressive in terms of ethics either. It was nowhere near as bad as what we're seeing
right now. But all the Hunter Biden business and the Hunter Biden artwork, the University of Pennsylvania's relationship with Biden and the Penn Biden
Center, it was a bit of a cesspool there as well. But I've got to say the Trump family has figured out a way to profit off the presidency that is
unparalleled in American history.
SCIUTTO: Richard Painter, thanks so much for joining and walking us through it.
PAINTER: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Checking some of today's other business headlines. SpaceX says it has acquired xAI. The merging of Elon Musk's most ambitious companies comes
ahead of SpaceX's expected IPO later this year. SpaceX says it plans to provide solar powered data centers to accommodate the surging data and
power demands driven by A.I.
The Trump administration plans to create a $12 billion strategic reserve of rare earths elements. Most of the funding expected to be a loan from the
U.S. Export Import Bank. China currently dominates the world's rare earth mining and processing.
The documentary "Melania" debuted with better-than-expected ticket sales. According to estimates, it made $7 million on its opening weekend. Amazon
MGM Studios paid about $40 million to make that film. The documentary captures the 20 days before the first lady, Melania Trump, returned to the
White House.
Still to come on "The Brief," Russia carried out deadly drone strikes on Ukraine once again, as the Kremlin and Kyiv agreed to at least the next
round of U.S. brokered peace talks. We're going to discuss whether a deal is moving in any positive direction just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:30:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief," I'm Jim Sciutto, and here are the international headlines we're watching today.
The New York Times says that President Trump spoke directly to the FBI agents who searched an elections office in Georgia. The Times says the
National Intelligence Director, Tulsi Gabbard, put Trump on the phone during a meeting with those agents. Of course, the DNI should be focused on
international threats to this country. The phone call reportedly took place one day after that search. The FBI is apparently investigating Trump's
ongoing claims of election fraud in 2020. Claims of widespread fraud have been repeatedly debunked.
The U.S. Justice Department is making clear no new charges are coming related to the late sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. In its latest release of
files, some survivors had their names and identifying information exposed. Survivors' attorneys call it an unfolding emergency. They want judges to
force the removal of those files from public view.
NASA is conducting a crucial wet dress rehearsal of the Artemis II rocket. It is wet because live fuel is being used in that test. Teams have been
troubleshooting issues with hydrogen leaks. NASA hopes that today's test will confirm Artemis is ready to take four astronauts to orbit around the
moon.
The Rafah Crossing has partially reopened after nearly two years. That's the main border crossing between Gaza and Egypt, critical for the delivery
of humanitarian aid. Passing through the crossing has historically been very expensive. It's unclear whether a toll is now in place there. For now,
only 50 people will be able to cross in each direction per day. This, according to Egyptian state media.
An Israeli source says U.S. special envoy Steve Witkoff is set to meet with the prime minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, on Tuesday. Nic Robertson
takes a closer look at what this means for the Palestinians in Gaza.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): For a lucky few of Gaza's war-wounded, a day they've dreamed of, boarding buses
in Gaza to take them to treatment in Egypt.
Fareed Khaled Al-Qassas (ph) hoping he'd make it across. We want proper, lasting treatment, he says. We are people who want life and love peace.
The once-bustling Rafah border post closed by Israel 20 months ago and still controlled by them, opening for the first time.
According to Gaza's Ministry of Health, an estimated 20,000 Gazans need medical treatment outside of the war-torn enclave. Ibrahim al-Battan (ph)
is war-wounded and needs dialysis, is hoping to get out soon, too. There used to be a hospital in the north, another in the city center, all of them
destroyed, he says. I came out of intensive care two days ago. There's no treatment at all, so what am I supposed to do?
On the Egyptian side, more hopefuls. Gazans who fled the war, desperate to go home, facing Egyptian, then E.U. and then IDF controls before they're
free to reunite with loved ones. Omar Zarib (ph) left with a sick relative last year and is desperate to go back.
[18:35:00]
I own a piece of land, he says, but when the war began, it was too dangerous to work there, and now I struggle for regular contact with
relatives.
Israeli officials said the border could only reopen once the remains of the last hostage was returned. That was a week ago. But Rafah is far from back
to pre-war business as usual, no trucks crossing, and for now, only a few dozen carefully vetted Gazans able to do so.
Nic Roberson, CNN, Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Moscow and Kyiv have confirmed that the next round of peace talks with the U.S. will happen this week in Abu Dhabi. This after Russia
continuing pummeling Ukraine with attacks aimed at civilians there. Ukrainian officials say those Russian strikes killed at least 12 coal
miners on Sunday. They were riding in a bus in eastern Ukraine on their way to work.
Officials say a separate attack on a maternity ward on the same day injured six more people. This comes as the country is grappling with power outages
amid plummeting temperatures. Russia is attacking its energy infrastructure there in Ukraine, in part to take advantage of that. A really rough winter,
making people cold.
Joining us now, the former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, William Taylor, a distinguished fellow now at the Atlantic Council. Ambassador, good to have
you.
WILLIAM TAYLOR, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE, FORMER CHARGE D'AFFAIRES FOR UKRAINE AND DISTINGUISHED FELLOW, THE ALTANTIC COUNCIL: Jim, thanks
for having me.
SCIUTTO: So, Russia is deliberately making the people of Ukraine suffer here. It's a cold winter. They're deliberately targeting energy
infrastructure. The accounts you hear from Kyiv of just apartment buildings frozen in the midst of all this. What does that tell you about Russia's
actual interest in a negotiated end of this war?
TAYLOR: Jim, they have none. Putin is not interested in an end to this war. It's exactly as you just said. Putin thinks that by bashing the
Ukrainians, by making them miserable, causing them to freeze in the dark in the middle of the worst winter of the war.
You know, we're talking -- the United States has gone through some cold weather. They are going through minus 30 degrees centigrade. This is
terrible cold. And Putin thinks that the Ukrainians will buckle, will fail. And Jim, I'm telling you, I talk to Ukrainians all the time. They are even
more determined now to prevail.
SCIUTTO: So, when you hear in the midst of that, the president's special envoy, Steve Witkoff, say, no, he's more optimistic. They've achieved more
in the past few weeks than they have in four years, Russia and Ukraine. What does that make the U.S. look like in these talks?
TAYLOR: Witkoff must be hearing something different than what everyone else is hearing in the world. That is, he's hearing that the Russians
really do want to come to some conclusion. There's no indication that that's true.
Witkoff has not been a very good interlocutor. He's not been a very good recorder, interpreter, relayer of information, of views coming from Moscow.
So, he tells President Trump, he tells the rest of us what President Putin wants him to tell. But sometimes he doesn't even get that right. So, we
have to discount that.
Now, that said, some of these conversations that you talked about a week and a half ago may have made some progress at a technical level. They may
have made some progress on figuring out how, if a ceasefire were to be agreed, how it would be implemented. But that's not the real issue. Those
aren't the real issues. The real issues are, how do you get to that ceasefire? And the real issue, as you've already indicated, is does Putin
want to stop this war? So far, the answer is no.
SCIUTTO: Listening to Zelenskyy in Davos, he does seem to have lost some confidence in Europe's ability to step up together and take action. And
while he doesn't say it out loud because he knows the consequences, it doesn't appear that he has much confidence in U.S. support anymore. I
wonder, I mean, when you speak to Ukrainians, do they feel more and more like they're just going to have to do this on their own?
TAYLOR: They're making two plans, Jim. They're making two plans. The Ukrainians want, and Zelenskyy said as much, they want the Europeans to
step up. Europeans, frankly, want to step up. They are stepping up. President Trump wants the Europeans to step up.
So, Zelenskyy is encouraging the Europeans to do that, to step up militarily, intelligence sharing. They've stepped up on financing. So yes,
the Ukrainians do want the Europeans to step up and do more. And they want that to be able to take the place, eventually, of the U.S. support.
[18:40:00]
But at the same time, Jim, Ukrainians and the Europeans want the Americans there for as long as possible. So, they're going to continue to work with
the Americans, to buy weapons from them, to encourage the Ukrainians to keep on the fight because the weapons continue to flow. It's a dual track.
Plan for when they're on their own, but try to keep the Americans on board as long as possible.
SCIUTTO: Exactly how much support is the U.S. still giving, right? It doesn't give any direct military assistance, sells a lot of weapons.
President Macron claimed this month that France now provides Ukraine with two-thirds of its intelligence, and it had been that intelligence sharing
that you'd often hear is really the core of U.S. support at this point, helping pick targets, et cetera. Is there much U.S. support left at this
point?
TAYLOR: There is, there is. That intelligence support you just described continues. There was a hiccup, as you reported, several months ago. But it
continues. It's going on right now. And you're right, that intelligence sharing is very important. The Brits, part of the Five Eyes network, the
French have their networks, and they're working closely with the Ukrainians. The Ukrainians appreciate that. But the U.S. intelligence
continues to go.
Also, there's an arrangement on weapons that is called PURL, Prioritized Ukrainian Resource List, whereby the Europeans buy weapons from U.S. firms
that manufacture, the very sophisticated ones that they, Europeans, can't manufacture, and provide them straight to the Ukrainians. And that
continues to flow. It's not as regular. It's not as consistent. And it's kind of month to month. But it continues to flow.
SCIUTTO: Well, the Ukrainians, they certainly need help. Ambassador William Taylor, thanks so much for joining.
TAYLOR: Thank you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: And we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: President Trump has announced a new trade deal with India. He says the U.S. will lower tariffs on Indian goods from 50 percent down to 18
percent. In turn, India will reduce tariffs on American goods to zero and remove other non-tariff barriers. The president, said Prime Minister
Narendra Modi, agreed to stop buying Russian oil and buy more oil, not just from the U.S., but potentially Venezuela.
Joining me now is Mary Lovely, senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics. Mary, good to have you.
[18:45:00]
Trump says India agreed to stop buying Russian oil. Are there concrete enforcement or verification mechanisms that would ensure compliance to
that, that you see in this?
MARY LOVELY, SENIOR FELLOW, PETERSON INSTITUTE FOR INTERNATIONAL ECONOMICS: Of course, we don't even really have it, to the best of my knowledge, in
Modi's own words. So, we have the promise from President Trump. And there are -- the U.S. does monitor, to the best of its ability, the ships that
carry this oil, just as we were able to track oil from Venezuela. So, there is some enforcement mechanism.
SCIUTTO: This comes, as you know, just days after the E.U. finalized a major trade agreement with India. Based on what you've seen here, and
again, as often with these Trump trade deals, there's not a lot of, you know, actual things written down. Is this deal comparable to the E.U. trade
deal?
LOVELY: Well, as you said, there's really nothing written down. We don't have the details. And like many of the agreements that President Trump has
signed since the beginning of this term, it appears to be inchoate. It's not finished. And it's clearly also not permanent, because President Trump
changes his mind and raises tariffs on different items.
The E.U. deal is different. It will be permanent in some sense, but it also is very thin. The E.U. wanted to show that it could create new trade
partners, move away from the U.S. And its deal has a lot of limitations. For example, it doesn't cover agriculture. And a lot of the things on which
India promised to provide market access to the E.U., they limited with quotas. And I expect that this deal will also have those types of limits.
SCIUTTO: It's yet another deal where India gives more than the U.S. does, at least based on the outlines, as we know them. The U.S. does reduce to 15
percent or so rather 18 percent. India reduces to zero. Why do countries still sign deals like that, given all the beyond the imbalance there, just
the lack of real credibility, right, given that Trump often trains, changes the deals later, the terms, why do they sign these deals?
LOVELY: Well, I guess here I'm going to have to be a skeptic and say I will believe it when I when I really see it with India. India is notorious
for not really living into -- or basically not even really signing agreements. It pulled out of the agreement in the Asia-Pacific called the
Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership at the last minute.
So, we don't really know what India will do. It has lots of ways to raise tariffs back up. Zero tariffs on U.S. I really doubt that that's what will
happen. And if there are, they'll be subject to quotas. So why would it do it? For the obvious reason everybody else does, which is U.S. security and
U.S. military, because, you know, the movement down to 18 is really very valued by India because they'll get to compete against other Asian
countries. But I don't think they're going to sacrifice their own domestic development goals for it.
SCIUTTO: Mary lovely, I'm sure we'll keep talking about these deals. Thanks so much for joining.
LOVELY: You're welcome.
SCIUTTO: Coming up next and on music's hottest night, ICE was in full focus. Bad Bunny and other stars publicly protested the ongoing immigration
crackdown at the Grammys.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:50:00]
SCIUTTO: It was music's biggest night, but politics took center stage at this year's Grammy Awards. Bad Bunny took home the night's biggest prize,
album of the year. Other big winners, Kendrick Lamar, who took home five Grammys, including record of the year for the song Luther. British star
Olivia Dean got Best New Artist. She was one of several winners to take aim at President Trump's ongoing immigration crackdown.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OLIVIA DEAN, WINNER, BEST NEW ARTIST: I'm up here as a granddaughter of an immigrant. I wouldn't be here -- yes, I'm a product of bravery and I think
those people deserve to be celebrated.
BAD BUNNY, WINNER, ALBUM OF THE YEAR: I'm going to say ICE out. We're not savage. We're not animals. We're not aliens. We are humans and we are
Americans.
BILLIE EILISH, WINNER, SONG OF THE YEAR: I feel like we just need to keep fighting and speaking up and protesting. And our voices really do matter
and the people matter. And -- I say, sorry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: She got bleeped out there. One thing, you can guess what she was saying. Entertainment journalist Segun Oduolowu joins us now. You know,
listen, I want to get to the politics first. I do want to get to the music because there were a lot of great acts celebrated last night. But it was a
consistent theme, right, Bad Bunny, you know, Billie Eilish there, a lot of folks wearing those ICE pins as well. Was that deliberate? Was it like
there's some sort of deliberate coordination with that message?
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALIST AND TELEVISION HOST: I don't know if it was deliberate, Jim, but I do think they were in a safe space, right?
ICE isn't about to bust open and break down the doors of the Grammys. So, standing up for something and using that platform while it might reach your
fans watching on TV, it's a safe place to take that stand. It's very different if those same artists were at the front line at some of these
marches where we don't necessarily see so many of them in Minnesota and other places.
And I would just remind folks that, you know, Ricky Gervais, former host of the Golden Globes, has gone online and spoken about this where you are a
rich and famous entertainer, your everyday life is very different than most of the people that are being persecuted by ice or that are facing
deportation. In the case of Bad Bunny, it speaks very directly to who he is and what he's about. And I understand his message. But to a lot of the
other artists wearing a pin and saying ice out, I mean, you're preaching to the choir inside of a church that only you all are members.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Well, Bad Bunny is going to have a challenge next week at the Super Bowl, right, how -- whether he goes forward with that message
there as well. Listen, let's talk about the music, if we can. And I actually watched the Grammys last night because my daughter wanted to watch
it, and I do what my daughter says. But I enjoyed it.
And I have to say, the number of new acts and real talent you see coming through, beyond like the great tributes, you know, that we saw sort of
later in the day, including Ozzy Osbourne in the night, I mean, there's a lot of young folks out there coming to the fore.
ODUOLOWU: There is, Jim. There's a lot of new music, and I hope it lands. I hope the public gives the Olivia Deans the runway to really showcase her
work. You know, Chappell Roan actually said on the red carpet, they were like, when is your next album? And she said, it took me five years to write
the first one. It might take me five years to write the next one. Will we give these new artists enough runway, right? We want them to be household
names, but it does take time. I thought everyone who touched that stage, young and old, really performed.
But remember, like last year's Doechii, we're expecting big things from her. We're expecting big things from Olivia Dean. We're expecting, you
know, big, big -- you know, more and more, and just give them time to mature, to ripen, and to keep giving us hits. Not everyone's going to be
Lady Gaga, but hey, can we at least get, you know, more Teddy Swimss? Let's give it time.
SCIUTTO: Yes, no question. And listen, for someone my age, closer to my age than my daughter's age, see like Lauryn Hill there, a little reunion of
the Fugees. I mean, those were some good moments as well.
[18:55:00]
ODUOLOWU: Those were incredible moments. She had not touched the Grammy stage since 1999. That's 27 years. Ironically, if you're into numerology,
that's how many Grammys Kendrick Lamar now has. But they both were making history because Lauryn came up, and that tribute to D'Angelo, and then
Roberta Flack, bringing up Wyclef Jean, her former Fugees bandmate, as they transitioned to their biggest song of "Killing Me Softly," which is their
cover of Roberta Flack.
It was so impressive. So many different voices that combined to show just how much these fallen stars, you know, what it took to be them. You know,
when you have nine artists doing D'Angelo and multiple artists doing Roberta Flack, it was the highlight for me. As I said, all praises due to
Justin Bieber and his boxers. That was pretty daring, but Lauryn Hill brought the house down.
SCIUTTO: Yes. As Trevor Noah said, he was like one slight move away from, you know, a problem moment there. Segun, thanks.
ODUOLOWU: Yes. One stiff breeze, it could all have been different.
SCIUTTO: Segun, thanks so much for joining again.
ODUOLOWU: Thank you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: And thanks so much, all of you. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. You've been watching "The Brief." Please do stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:00:00]
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