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The Brief with Jim Sciutto
CNN International: White House Defends Gabbard's Presence at Election Office; Sheriff: We believe Nancy Guthrie is "Still Out There"; Ukraine and Russia Exchange 314 Prisoners of War; U.S. and Russia Agree to Reopen Military Communication; Bitcoin Sell-Off Intensified; Republican Lawmakers on U.S. Immigration Crackdown; China's A.I. Surveillance. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired February 05, 2026 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR, "THE BRIEF": Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington, and
you're watching "The Brief."
Just ahead this hour, the White House defends Tulsi Gabbard's presence at the search of a Georgia election center, saying the national intelligence
director was just doing her job. The sheriff investigating the abduction of Nancy Guthrie says he believes she is still alive, but urges patience with
the search. And how China is using artificial intelligence to enhance its surveillance of its own citizens.
We begin at the White House, Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt trying to defend national intelligence director Tulsi Gabbard's presence at an FBI
search of a Georgia elections hub and dodging this question from CNN's Kristen Holmes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: You talked about 2016 and Russian interference, but what we've learned from these Georgia
officials is what was seized by the FBI were ballots from 2020 in this Fulton County election center. Do you have any evidence that there was
international interference in the 2020 election in this election center?
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: What I do have evidence of and what the media seems to be undermining is why Tulsi Gabbard is there in
the first place. And I would point you again to federal law that clearly assigns the DNI and the office with the statutory responsibility to lead
counter-intel matters related to election security. This includes assessing risks to election voting systems, software, voter registration databases,
and more, and analyzing foreign interference. That it is more than appropriate.
In fact, it is Tulsi Gabbard's job to ensure that our elections are safe and secure. And that's exactly what she's been doing on the ground in
Georgia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Well, she didn't learn, didn't stop there. Gabbard's office also obtained voting machines from Puerto Rico. Kristen Holmes joins us now with
more. Kristen, you've been reporting this out. What exactly is the Trump administration up to here?
HOLMES: Look, Jim, we still have a lot of questions because it's not clear and we're getting different answers from everybody. I do want to be -- you
know, know why we were asking Karoline Leavitt this question about Tulsi Gabbard is because the administration hasn't been able to give a straight
answer as to what she was doing there. We had the deputy attorney general at one point saying he didn't know why she was there.
We had Trump himself last night saying he didn't know why she was there. Then earlier today, Trump said that it was at the request of the attorney
general, Pam Bondi. I will again point you to that earlier note that the deputy attorney general originally said he had no idea why she was there.
And she herself has said she was there at the direction of the president.
Now, it is clear that she is invested in this project, which is a pet project of President Trump's, which is essentially proving what Trump has
been saying for the last five, six years, that he rightfully won the 2020 election, which, of course, we have no proof of. Now, when it comes to
Puerto Rico, we have learned that they have obtained these voting machines and tested them or examined them for security vulnerabilities.
And I do want to read you part of a statement from Tulsi Gabbard's office, just giving us a little bit of insight into why they did this. It says they
cited publicly reported claims relating to elections in Puerto Rico, alleging discrepancies and systematic anomalies in their electronic voting
systems.
They also claim that they found things that were extremely concerning, but then didn't give any evidence of it. This does appear to be a larger
strategy or at least larger focus of the administration, as we've seen President Trump ramp up his rhetoric, not just about what happened in 2020,
but this idea of federalizing the elections.
I do want to note one of the things that Karoline Leavitt was asked about, again, was this idea that President Trump continues to say that we should
federalize the elections. She has said it is about the SAVE Act, about voter ID. He has never mentioned the SAVE Act when asked about it. In fact,
he has talked about this idea of states counting votes and how they don't do it right. And if they don't do it right, something should happen,
indicating the federal government should stand in, which, of course, is against the Constitution.
[18:05:00]
But it doesn't seem to be lining up here in terms of what Karoline is saying and what President Trump is saying he wants to do. However, we can't
get a clear answer on what it is exactly he's trying to do moving forward and whether or not he's working on something other than what Karoline says
is pushing through the SAVE Act, when President Trump himself has essentially alluded to things that are not, again, in the SAVE Act at all.
SCIUTTO: No question. We should remember, of course, the context of this, that he attempted to overturn the 2020 election, which he lost. Kristen
Holmes, thanks so much for joining.
We are learning new details about the disappearance of the mother of NBC TODAY show anchor Savannah Guthrie. Investigators believe 84-year-old Nancy
Guthrie was taken from her Arizona home against her will early Sunday morning and say they believe she is still out there. Police confirmed in
the past few hours that blood was found on the porch and that that blood was hers. So far, there are still no suspects and, crucially, no proof of
life following the receiving ransom letters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEITH JANKE, FBI SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE, PHOENIX OFFICE: We are aware of a ransom letter that was sent to the local media and then to national
outlets. As with every lead, we are taking it seriously. We are in communication with the family. And while we advise and recommend from a law
enforcement perspective, any action taken on any ransom is ultimately decided by the family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Ed Lavandera is following developments from Tucson, Arizona. Ed, chief of police was asked there if he believes that Nancy Guthrie is still
alive, and he said yes. Do we know if police have reason to believe that?
EL LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think a lot of that, Jim, is driven by the fact that they also don't have reason to
believe or any evidence that points that the opposite of that is true. So, they say that because of that, they are operating under the assumption,
they have to operate under this assumption to ensure that they work as quickly as they can to try to be able to get here.
But right now, we are in the fifth day of this search. And we're learning more about how the night she was abducted unfolded.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAVANDERA (voice-over): The Pima County sheriff revealed key details in the investigation into the disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, including
evidence that showed blood found on her front porch matches the 84-year-old mother and grandmother. Investigators also laid out a timeline of her
disappearance, according to her family and data from digital devices, including multiple cameras in the Guthrie's home and a front door camera
that is missing.
On Saturday at 5:32 p.m., Nancy traveled to visit her family in an Uber. At 9:48 p.m., Nancy is dropped off at home by a family member. And then at
9:50 p.m., Nancy's garage door closes. On Sunday at 1:47 a.m., the doorbell camera disconnects. At 2:12 a.m., the sheriff says software detects a
person on camera. Then at 2:28 a.m., her pacemaker disconnects from the app on her phone. After receiving a call that morning at 11:56 a.m., the family
checks on her home and finds that Nancy is missing. At 12:03, the family called 911.
SHERIFF CHRIS NANOS, PIMA COUNTY, ARIZONA: Approximately 10 minutes later, 12 minutes later, our patrol teams arrived. They see the scene, and we
start our response with our search and rescue teams and our detectives from homicide and various units.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): Also, the FBI announced a $50,000 reward, but investigators say there are no suspects yet.
NANOS: We believe Nancy is still out there. We really just want mom back.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): FBI agents were on scene at Guthrie's home late Wednesday, conducting an additional search of the crime scene, using
detection dogs and taking bags of evidence. At the same time, Savannah Guthrie, along with her sister and brother, posted a heartbreaking video,
painting a loving picture of their mother.
SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, NANCY GUTHRIE'S DAUGHTER: She is full of kindness and knowledge. Talk to her, and you'll see. She chooses joy day after day,
despite having already passed through great trials of pain and grief.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): The siblings asked for proof of life while reaching out directly to anyone involved. We need to know, without a doubt,
that she is alive and that you have her. We want to hear from you, and we are ready to listen.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): Still, officials say there is no evidence that reported ransom notes are legitimate, though they are still investigating,
including one sent to media outlets that set today as a deadline for payment.
JANKE: First, I think, was 5 o'clock today, and then it had a second deadline after that. So, we are continuing. In a normal kidnapping case,
there would be contact by now.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): The FBI says at least one of the ransom notes is fake.
JANKE: We have made one arrest related to an imposter ransom demand, and a complaint will be presented to a magistrate judge later today.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[18:10:00]
SCIUTTO: Ed, another new piece of information was about this doorbell camera. Disconnects at 1:47 a.m., 2:12 a.m. software detects a person on
camera, though no video available. Do police now believe that the attackers, the abductors, disabled the camera?
LAVANDERA: They can't say with any clarity, but the way the camera -- it was taken. They do not have -- this is the camera on the front door. The
camera was taken. They just simply don't have it. There are multiple cameras inside the house, and that is the troubling part of this, is that -
- and you can imagine as an investigator, if you know that this system detected somebody or something inside the house, you know you're just that
close to being able to get a key piece of evidence.
But up until now, investigators say they are doing everything they can with various companies that can try to dislodge that video somehow, try to bring
it back to life, if you will, and they just simply have not been able to do that so far.
SCIUTTO: Ed Lavandera, good to have you there. Thanks so much. Well, Ukraine and Russia each returned more than 150 prisoners of war to the
other side, the first such exchange since back in October. The swap came as trilateral talks between Ukraine, Russia, and the U.S. wrapped up in Abu
Dhabi. Following the talks, the White House Special Envoy Steve Witkoff said Washington and Moscow agreed to reopen a military communication
channel. Not clear there was other progress towards ending the war.
Earlier today, I spoke to Irish Foreign Minister Helen McEntee about the Ukraine war, as well as other key issues between Europe and the U.S. I
began the interview by asking her whether the Greenland dispute has fundamentally damaged relations between the U.S. and Europe.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HELEN MCENTEE, IRISH FOREIGN MINISTER: I think there's still a way to go, but I think it's welcome that there's engagement and I think it's welcome
that discussions with Denmark and Greenland have been happening, and I think those involved, most importantly, are happy and confident that
there's a way forward. I mean, I won't lie, I don't think it's helped relations between the U.S. and the E.U. as a whole.
I don't think that our relationship is broken, nowhere near that, but it certainly has left the E.U. as a whole and individual member states feeling
somewhat cautious about what might come next, and I think what's been certain in the last month or so is to expect uncertainty.
I mean, Ireland was very clear, I was very clear that there could be no decision on Greenland without the people of Greenland and Denmark making
that decision themselves, and I think you've seen that right across the E.U. and that unified response.
SCIUTTO: To your point, you and other Irish leaders were quite steadfast in your position on Greenland, which I think also characterized the
European response more broadly. Is it safe to say that that will be the European position and unity going forward? That if pushed, or if demands
come from this side of the Atlantic that they're not happy with, they're going to stand up to them?
MCENTEE: Yes, is the honest answer. I mean, Ireland is European first. We are part of the European Union and we see ourselves as important members of
that overall community, but that doesn't take away from the fact that we are and have always had a really strong relationship with the U.S. and we
don't want that to change.
So, Ireland's approach has always been to engage in dialogue where you have problems, where you have issues. I mean, this isn't the first time we've
disagreed on issues. It's maybe been a bit more to the fore and more in a very short space of time, but the response from Ireland will always be,
let's engage, let's discuss this, let's find a way forward at the same time.
I hope it's been clear that Ireland's been very strong. We won't accept threats from friends, no matter how close we've been and we are, and that
we will stand united with our European colleagues and partners. And again, in terms of the threats to tariffs, you know, there was a possibility that
the counter tariffs that had been put to the side, that they would come back on the table and even discussions around coercion legislation, which
has never come to the fore. It was very clear that they could be and would be used if there was future threats.
SCIUTTO: On the issue of trade, do you have confidence that anything you're told about a trade agreement between the U.S. and Ireland today will
necessarily hold tomorrow or next week or next month?
MCENTEE: You know, I have confidence in the conversations that I've had and the engagement that I've had with the administration. I met with
Ambassador Greer and I believe that there is a will and there is a desire for the U.S.-E.U. relationship, specifically related to trade, that we get
back on track.
I mean, a lot of work went into the agreement last year. There was a huge amount of dialogue and engagement with the European Union, the Commission
and with the administration here. And I think for the most part, people just want to get back on track because there's more we need to do. That
trade agreement, those other elements, those other industries where we want to make further progress on.
[18:15:00]
But I think we're all cautious that, you know, we've seen things change in the past. And that's why the focus for Europe now is one to remain united,
to make sure that any challenges that emerge, that we engage first and respond afterwards, but that we look beyond that as well. So, what can we
do internally? How can we improve our own structures, our own economic environment? And that's going to be a key priority for us.
SCIUTTO: On Ukraine, are you leaving Washington with any confidence that the U.S. will boost its support for Ukraine, the Congress or the president,
or is the new normal that in effect, this is it? Yes, the U.S. will sell some weapons to Europe, which will then pass on to Ukraine. But the era of
substantial U.S. support for Ukraine is over?
MCENTEE: You know, I have to trust and believe that the U.S. will continue the way in which they have in trying to bring this conflict to an end. This
is one of the biggest challenges that we have faced on the European continent since World War II. This is not just about Ukraine. So, my
message has been clear. We will do everything that we can in Europe, supporting Ukraine, putting pressure on Russia, but we need the U.S. to do
the same because this is about security in the continent of Europe, not just protecting Ukraine.
SCIUTTO: I know you were in Ukraine yourself in December, listening to the words of, for instance, President Zelenskyy just in the last couple of
days, but also Ukrainians that I speak to on the ground there. It seems that they are losing faith, not just in the U.S., but even in Europe, in
terms of their ability to give Ukraine the true support it needs, including real guarantees for its security if Russia and Ukraine are to come to some
sort of agreement. Do you hear the same thing?
MCENTEE: You know, look, in Ireland we have over 100,000 Ukrainian citizens who have come to Ireland seeking refuge. So, there isn't a home or
community across the country that is not hearing and feeling exactly what's happening. And I mean, absolutely, it's four years on. People are tired.
People want this war to end. But what we are clear of, and we discuss this every time we meet at a European Council meeting, at a foreign affairs
meeting, our resolve to support Ukraine remains absolutely resolute.
So, we will continue on sanctions against Russia, which are having an impact and are impacting their economy, and we need to continue on that.
We're focusing on how we can impact Shadow Fleet, which is a legal movement and having a huge impact on their ability to fund this war. We're focused
on how we can fund Ukraine as well.
So, our resolution, our resolve is absolutely solid and firm. But I understand, I mean, people are tired. This is four years of a brutal war.
And that is where the U.S. support and the U.S. involvement is so important to be able to bring this to a head. And again, it's -- you know, we're
seeing that, but we need to see more of it as well.
SCIUTTO: The U.S. has, under President Trump in his second term, changed its approach to the world in many ways. Do you view this as a temporary
U.S. retreat? In effect, are you waiting Trump out, or do you believe that this is the new America, that it's a fundamental change in how America
deals with the world?
MCENTEE: I mean, I think we have to accept changes that have taken place and that there is potentially a new norm, whether it's in terms of foreign
policy or internal matters as well. But at the same time, and I reflect on my meetings yesterday, I reflect on my discussions with congressmen and
women from both the Democratic and Republican parties, is that the relationship between the E.U. and the U.S., whether it's on trade, whether
it's on security, whether it's on other matters, that it is still their most important relationship. And despite the fact that there's been a lot
of difficulties in the very first month of this year, I would say that that is the view of our European colleagues and from Ireland and my perspective
as well.
So, while there's a lot happening, there are changes, certainly I'm sure many of them are more permanent changes that shouldn't shift and change the
dial when it comes to our relationship.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: My conversation there with the Irish foreign minister. Well, still ahead, Bitcoin bust. The popular cryptocurrency is down sharply again
today. It has now lost half its value since late last year. We're going to discuss what's behind this and how far Bitcoin might fall after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:20:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." In today's Business Breakout, no end in sight to the tech sell-off on Wall Street. The NASDAQ fell for a third
straight session, down this time more than 1.5 percent. The Nasdaq is in the middle of its worst selling slump since last April. The Dow and S&P
dropped sharply as well. Helping fuel today's sell-off weakness in the chip company Qualcomm. It's the latest big tech firm to warn that A.I. could hit
their profits.
Shares of Amazon are falling sharply in after-hours trading. It's warning that it will be spending some $200 billion this year on A.I. That's a much
higher level of investment than many analysts expected. Amazon's earnings came in weaker than expected as well. It's not just stocks that are selling
off.
Bitcoin is suffering one of its worst trading days in years. The cryptocurrency is currently down more than 12 percent, trading below key
support levels. That is raising concern that perhaps it has further to fall. Bitcoin has lost 35 percent of its value this past year. It has lost
all of its gains since President Trump's 2024 election victory. Trump, of course, has been a fervent Bitcoin booster, despite the volatile nature of
the asset. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: If Bitcoin is going to the moon, as we say, is going to the moon, I want America to be the nation that leads the way,
and that's what's going to happen.
I bought a hamburger with Bitcoin. They say it was the first purchase ever made, I guess, of a hamburger or something. And now look, I'm a believer in
staying at the top. This is a hot thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Not so hot now. Deutsche Bank says it is seeing evidence that traditional investors are losing interest in Bitcoin. And it's not just
Bitcoin. Other cryptocurrencies such as Ethereum and Solana have seen large drops as well this year.
Ken Rogoff joins me now. He's a professor of economics at Harvard and a former chief economist for the IMF. Ken, good to have you on. Thanks so
much for joining.
KEN ROGOFF, PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS, HARVARD UNIVERSITY AND FORMER IMF CHIEF ECONOMIST: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: So, you've been watching this quite closely, and you've been a skeptic of Bitcoin and other digital currencies for some time. As you watch
this now, does this have signs of something more than just a short-term sell-off or correction, that there's something bigger going on here?
ROGOFF: Well, cryptocurrencies' prices are very hard to understand. I'm not saying they should be worthless. They're certainly used. You just
covered Russia, Shadow Fleet trade, the underground economy, tax evasion. There was just a big case today. They're certainly used for things. But
there was a belief with President Trump that they were going to come into the mainstream. And I'm not quite sure what shaken that belief or whether
it's just that it's a very emotional, faith-based price, and we're seeing a bit of a crisis of confidence.
SCIUTTO: That's been a consistent point you've been making, that Bitcoin has real value for the underground economy. It's a good way to pay for
stuff you shouldn't be buying or trading in, including Shadow Fleets with oil. How have the real-world applications gone? I mean, has it made any
progress as a safe haven or as a reserve currency?
[18:25:00]
ROGOFF: Well, there was talk of Bitcoin being used by the world's central banks, not the United States, as an alternative to the dollar. Gold has
benefited from that. I mean, gold's been hurting the last week also, but it's still way, way up, hasn't fallen like Bitcoin has. But there was talk
about that.
Some people said Bitcoin could be worth 10 times what it is today in order to replace gold to be worth as much. But the trouble is, gold is volatile,
but not like Bitcoin. I mean, so what's been happening certainly undermines the story that it's safe, that it's eventually going to become more normal.
Now, that said, you know, I don't know what the future will bring in technology. You know, it could be that it morphs into something. Stable
coins, which are fixed in price to the dollar, are a whole different animal. But, you know, again, the Bitcoin people have conviction. They just
almost a religious belief that it's got to go to the moon. We heard it from President Trump.
SCIUTTO: Yes. There's an issue here about the cost, too. Is there not? Because to mine Bitcoin, which is an elaborate digital process, costs a
fair amount of money. And as I understand it, the cost of mining is now higher than the price of the coin itself. Is that a key inflection point?
ROGOFF: Well, I mean, that could happen because the price went so high that the people who are, quote/unquote, ""mining Bitcoin," but the ones who
are, let's just say, paying to make the system work and they would get some Bitcoin to be paid for that. The price has fallen that, yes, that's going
to have an effect. But, you know, it could double again tomorrow. It could go in half. I think the thing we know for sure is anyone who said it's not
volatile, you know, is smoking something.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Final question. You're an economist. And this is not the first time human beings have become enamored of something that they buy a
lot of and then it collapses. I mean, I'm thinking everything from Dutch tulips to railroad stocks in the late 19th century, right, to the dotcom
boom in the late 1990s. Just from a historical perspective, does Bitcoin have the characteristics of those other bubble assets to some degree?
ROGOFF: Well, it's been more robust than I would have guessed. I would have thought it could be imitated, something superior coming along. But the
system's so big, it's been so fire tested, for example, taking falls like this without completely collapsing. But it doesn't seem like it's going to
completely go away.
And again, it is very government resistant, hard for the government to audit it. It's possible, but very, very expensive, very hard. And, you
know, a good part of world income goes in the shadows. And so, yes, we use the U.S. dollar for that. But Bitcoin, other cryptocurrencies have proven
very robust. China and Russia are trading in cryptocurrencies. So, I don't think it's going to completely go away. Of course, tulips didn't completely
go away either.
SCIUTTO: True. Just a little cheaper. Ken Rogoff --
ROGOFF: A little cheaper.
SCIUTTO: -- thanks so much for joining.
ROGOFF: Thanks.
SCIUTTO: Coming up on "The Brief," the White House says it is open to discussing some proposals from Democrats who are demanding reforms to ICE.
We're going to get reaction from a Republican lawmaker.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:30:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief," I'm Jim Sciutto, and here are the international headlines we're watching today.
British Prime Minister Keir Starmer is apologizing to victims of Jeffrey Epstein, vowing, quote, "We will not look away." Mr. Starmer is fighting
for his political life over his decision to appoint Peter Mandelson as ambassador to the U.S. The prime minister said Mandelson lied about the
full extent of his relationship with Epstein.
Cuba says it will roll out an energy rationing plan beginning next week. The move comes amid Cuba's shrinking energy supply and the Trump
administration's pressure campaign to block the export of oil to the island. Cuba's president says his country is willing to have a dialogue
with the U.S.
The White House is strongly defending National Intelligence Director Tulsi Gabbard's presence at an FBI search of a Georgia election center last week.
Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt says, quote, "It's more than appropriate for Gabbard to be involved in that search." Gabbard's office also obtained
voting machines from Puerto Rico and tested them for security vulnerabilities.
The White House says it is open to discussing some demands from Democrats who want reforms as part of any funding deal for the Department of Homeland
Security. It follows outrage over the fatal shootings of Alex Pretti and Renee Good by federal agents in Minneapolis last month. Senate Democrats
say proposed changes to ICE tactics are a, quote, "moral red line," but some Senate Republicans have called the proposals ridiculous.
Republican Congressman Kevin Kiley joins us now from Washington. He's the U.S. representative for California's third congressional district.
Congressman, thanks so much for taking the time.
REP. KEVIN KILEY (R-CA): Of course. Thanks for having me.
SCIUTTO: So, let me begin by asking, do you believe Republicans and Democrats can come to some sort of compromise on this?
KILEY: I do. I think there's plenty of common ground on both sides. And you've had a number of members on both sides say that there are certain
reforms that make sense in order to, you know, better focus and advance the mission of our immigration agencies. And so, I think that's going to be the
discussion is exactly what those reforms are.
Well, which I believe also need to be coupled with better procedures for having an orderly transfer of custody when you have someone who's in the
custody of law enforcement for having committed a crime after being in the country illegally in order to make sure that they are given over to the
immigration authorities, as opposed to being released into the community, which has been standard practice for a long time.
But you do have some jurisdictions that have been refusing to do that, like in Minnesota, although we have now seen just in the last couple of weeks a
little more cooperation there. And as a result, you see, actually, Tom Homan has withdrawn some of the ICE and immigration officials who were in
the state.
So, I think that's the kind of compromise that we need and that will be better for the public and for law enforcement and for effective immigration
enforcement going forward.
[18:35:00]
SCIUTTO: OK. So, let's go over some of the other proposals here. Of course, body cameras were one of them, and now that is a step that that it
appears ICE and DHS are going to take. How about masks? Why do ICE agents need to wear masks? And would you support that as a new rule that they no
longer wear masks except under extraordinary circumstances?
KILEY: Well, it depends what we mean by extraordinary circumstances. I mean I agree. Generally speaking, that is not the way we want law
enforcement or immigration enforcement to proceed. But we also have to understand that there has been a massive, massive increase in threats
against immigration officials and there's been outright attacks on them as well. And so, you can understand why in some circumstances they may feel
the need to take this measure to protect themselves and their families.
So, I'm certainly open to the conversation as to how we strike that balance properly. But I don't think that the purpose of the mask the reason they're
being used is anything other than protecting the safety of officers and their families.
SCIUTTO: But they started wearing these masks from the very beginning, as you know. There are law enforcement officers, police and cities across the
country who do very dangerous duty and face threats themselves but they don't wear masks and they have their badge numbers and their names on their
uniform.
KILEY: Well, we -- again, I agree with your basic premise that generally speaking law enforcement and immigration enforcement operations shouldn't
make use of that measure. But what we have seen over the last year and I think the likes of Tom Homan would tell you this is a truly unprecedented
increase in threats. And we have had incidents where officers are you know they have people throwing stones and Molotov cocktails and everything else.
So, I think that this is all part of the same conversation. We want to bring down the temperature have immigration officials be able to do their
job in a standard routine way without having to face this sort of threats. And then, you know, ideally, this will not be necessary going forward.
SCIUTTO: How about roving patrols? Because that is another issue that Democrats and other chains that Democrats are demanding here. And as you
know, sometimes these roving patrols not only do they put communities on edge but sometimes they've taken up people, U.S. citizens, legal residents,
et cetera.
KILEY: Well, part of what we actually had in the immigration bill or the homeland security bill was funding not just for body cameras but also for
more training in terms of how we do these interactions with the public. But, you know, I do need to emphasize that part of the reason that some of
these operations do take place in the community is you have some jurisdictions that have refused to, you know, have an orderly transfer of
custody of individuals who have committed crimes in a custodial setting.
And so, that's where we've actually seen progress now in Minnesota, is there is now more cooperation with the state and local officials. If you
can hand the person off rather than releasing them into the community, then there's less of a need for immigration officials to be out there in the
community.
SCIUTTO: Should there be parts of the community that should be off limits though. For instance, you taught for teach for America when you were
teaching. I imagine you wouldn't want ICE officers coming up and setting up outside of schools for instance.
KILEY: Yes, there's definitely no place for that in schools. I agree with you.
SCIUTTO: OK. I wonder just on the financial issue what the degree of leverage is here, right, because governments open two weeks now to
negotiate a deal regarding DHS funding. Fact is, as you know, DHS already has, I believe the figure is $75 billion funding through 2029. Even without
this funding they could practically keep their operations going, right? I mean, is it possible that you don't come to a deal and ICE just goes along
its merry way?
KILEY: Well, honestly, I think that there is bipartisan interest in in reaching a deal. You know, irrespective of what leverage may or may not
exist. I think we all agree that these tragedies that we've seen are just that they're tragedies. They cannot continue to happen. We don't want to
see scenes like that happening in this country.
And so, I think that this is an opportunity we all have now to come together take down the temperature find some common ground, some common-
sense reforms, to focus and advance the admission of the immigration agencies while also addressing this issue of individuals who have committed
crimes being released into the community. I think those are the two sides of the deal. And I think there's bipartisan interest in both of them.
SCIUTTO: You've heard these suggestions. I believe they originated with the president's former adviser, Steve Bannon, of ICE agents being deployed
around election sites in the coming election. Do you see any role for ICE in election security?
KILEY: I haven't heard anything about that. That doesn't seem to be what their purpose is.
[18:40:00]
SCIUTTO: Are you concerned about the presence of the director of national intelligence which likes DHS was created in the wake of 9/11 to supervise
intelligence agencies for foreign threats to this country, of which there are many today, taking part in a raid at an election center in Georgia
where the president has claimed without basis that an election was stolen from him. Is that a proper role for the DNI?
KILEY: I honestly don't know the facts about what her involvement was or what the basis of that operation was. I mean, I can certainly imagine
scenarios where her involvement in election-related matters would be appropriate. For example, you know, there have been many attempts by
foreign actors to intervene in our elections in one form or another, and so that would clearly fall within her purview. But I just don't know the full
range of facts in this particular instance.
SCIUTTO: Congressman Kevin Kiley, we appreciate you joining the show.
KILEY: Of course, thanks for having me.
SCIUTTO: Just ahead, China ramps up its use of artificial intelligence, including to expand its monitoring of its own citizens. We're going to
bring you the latest from Will Ripley just after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Many experts call it authoritarian AI. China is ramping up its use of artificial intelligence for everything from traffic comps to
monitoring prisoners. This in a country thought to already have some 600 million surveillance cameras. Will Ripley has more from Taiwan.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On Chinese social media, this A.I. generated video --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You roll up here dressed like a damn robot.
RIPLEY (voice-over): -- robot dogs and soldiers liberating a backward, impoverished United States.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That rifle is mine.
RIPLEY (voice-over): Seizing guns, commandeering churches.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They came here for the world.
RIPLEY (voice-over): A dystopian vision of a future America under Chinese control, powered by drones and A.I. tech made in China, some of it already
in use. These are robotic traffic police operating right now on streets in China, using cameras and artificial intelligence to manage traffic in real
time.
U.S. experts refer to it as authoritarian A.I. tech designed to watch people, maintain control, and in some cases, step in automatically without
a human having to make the call. This report from ASPI says China is using A.I. to turbocharge surveillance of its 1.4 billion people with as many as
600 million cameras, roughly three cameras for every seven people.
[18:45:00]
Many are now A.I. enabled, tracking faces, movements, and behavioral patterns. The report says Chinese authorities use algorithms to predict
people's actions, forecasting protests, flagging what authorities call abnormal behavior, even claiming to monitor the emotional state of prison
inmates to stop dissent before it ever happens. China's foreign ministry in Beijing tells CNN ASPI is anti-China and long known for fabricating
numerous lies and false information.
China's biggest tech firms are key to making this work, the report says. ByteDance censors politically sensitive content on Douyin, the Chinese
TikTok. Tencent assigns risk scores to users based on online behavior. Baidu sells A.I. moderation tools used in criminal investigations. CNN
reached out to all three companies, so far, no response.
A.I. powered weapons are also being deployed in China's military. The kind of technology Beijing imagines could play a future role in attacking
Taiwan, a scenario illustrated in this A.I. generated propaganda video from the People's Liberation Army. China's military is also developing drones
that swarm the way animals hunt, copying insects, hawks, even apex predators. A.I. controlled weapons could someday coordinate, adapt and keep
attacking without waiting for human commands.
RIPLEY: China argues the U.S. is doing this too, pointing to a Georgetown University report. ICE has built huge A.I. driven surveillance systems
capable of pulling data on most American adults in the name of national security. The big question, are we heading toward a future where life and
death decisions are made by algorithms and not people?
Will Ripley, CNN, Taipei.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: That's certainly the concern. Coming up, pro hockey players return to the Olympics for the first time since 2014. We spoke to some of
the Olympians heading to Milan.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: NHL hockey players are back at the Olympics after more than a decade off the Olympic ice. The sports best sat out the last two games,
first due to conflicts with the sports regular season schedule, then the pandemic. And this year, they have more eyes on them than usual thanks to
the heat TV show "Heated Rivalry." But it remains to be seen if fans of the show will stick around to actually watch the sport. CNN's Paula Newton has
more.
[18:50:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): After more than a decade on the bench, NHL players will be back on Olympic ice. Teammates here soon
facing off as sworn enemies there. We hit the ice with the New York Rangers and their newly minted Olympians. Mika Zabanijad for Team Sweden, J.T.
Miller and Vincent Trocheck for Team USA.
NEWTON: Why do you think the NHL comeback to the Olympics is so important?
VINCENT TROCHECK, PLAYER, NEW YORK: I think the NHL is the best league in the world and the best players in the world play in the NHL. And you want
to see the best on best just like you do in every other competition.
J.T. MILLER, PLAYER, NEW YORK RANGERS: I think that's just good for the game in general. It's going to be another example of how far hockey has
grown in the last couple of years.
NEWTON (voice-over): The game has grown and so have epic rivalries. Rangers coach Mike Sullivan will lead Team USA.
MIKE SULLIVAN, COACH, NEW YORK RANGERS: To have the opportunity to represent your country not only with your sport but also with the bigger
team, that being the United States, is an incredible honor.
NEWTON (voice-over): An honor that needs defending after Team USA lost to Canada in overtime at last year's Four Nations Tournament. This Olympic ad
makes clear Team USA is out for revenge.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're going to Milan to bring home the biggest prize of all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Canadian tears.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exactly.
JULIAN MCKENZIE, STAFF WRITER, "THE ATLANTIC" AND AUTHOR, "BLACK ACES": I think it would be ultimately like a dream matchup to see Canada, which has
been the power at the Olympics versus America, which has been knocking on the door to kind of take that next step and try to see if they can beat a
Canadian roster.
NEWTON: The excitement is really building to have these rivalries back on Olympic ice. I don't know what you're thinking. What about the heated
rivalry off the ice?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, I only need one thing. I need to win.
NEWTON (voice-over): The Canadian TV show is now a cultural juggernaut. It tackles a secret relationship between two closeted players as they try to
navigate love and hockey, even the Olympics. It's another way for hockey to grow the sport.
In fact, it wasn't NHL players but "Heated Rivalry's" two stars who were tapped to be Olympic torchbearers. The show is racking up millions of
viewers and in a stunning admission, the NHL's commissioner is one of them.
GARY BETTMAN, NHL COMMISSIONER: I've watched all six episodes, I binged it in one night. I thought the storyline was very compelling and a lot of fun
because, you know, I could see where they were, you know, picking at things that we had done in the past.
NEWTON (voice-over): The test for the NHL will be converting fans of the show into fans of a league that has never had an openly gay player.
MCKENZIE: I think the culture of the sport still has ways to go to make everyone feel comfortable expressing who they are. It's insane to see how
this show has basically turned itself into an unstoppable bullet train. And the craziest thing about it is that the people who are driving this train
are people who were on the periphery of hockey.
NEWTON (voice-over): And so, for these games, players will be bringing the heat to the ice, hoping to win over newfound fans with a whole new
appreciation of hockey's Olympic dreams.
Paula Newton, CNN, Tarrytown, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: And from "Heated Rivalry" to heating up the stage, music superstar Bad Bunny kept his cards close to his chest about what to expect
from the Super Bowl halftime show this Sunday. The rapper is making history as the first Spanish-language artist to headline the iconic event. One
thing he assisted on was that it would be a huge party and that you won't have to understand Spanish to enjoy the show.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAD BUNNY, HEADLINER, SUPER BOWL LX HALFTIME SHOW: I don't want to give any spoilers. It's going to be fun, and it's going to be easy, and people
only have to worry about dance. I know that I told them that they had four months to learn Spanish. They don't even have to learn Spanish. It's better
if they learn to dance, but I think there's no better dance than the one that comes from the heart.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Bad Bunny's involvement has drawn backlash from President Trump and some conservative commentators, but with last year's halftime show
earning an average of more than 133 million viewers, huge numbers are likely to tune in, and, well, the NFL likes that.
Before we go, an unexpected face has emerged as a symbol of fortune in China. Draco Malfoy, the sneering, icy blonde bully from the "Harry Potter"
franchise, has become the unofficial mascot as China's Year of the Horse begins this month. Why? China's Mike -- CNN's Mike Valerio explains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIKE VALERIO, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What does Draco Malfoy have to do with good luck in China?
TOM FELTON, ACTOR, HARRY POTTER: Draco Malfoy.
[18:55:00]
VALERIO: So, these decorations have popped up all over Chinese social media ahead of the start of the Lunar New Year. That starts on February 17
and, of course, it ushers in the Year of the Horse in the Chinese zodiac.
It even got the attention of Tom Felton, the English actor who played the character in the Harry Potter movie series sharing this on his Instagram
story.
All of this sudden popularity is thanks to the Chinese translation of Malfoy, which is Ma'erfu with ma meaning horse and fu meaning good fortune.
It's a tradition for people across China to put the character fu on their front doors in hopes blessings and good fortune in the year ahead.
So, I wonder why Malfoy wasn't everywhere during the Year of the Snake since he is a Slytherin. Well, better late than never. Xinnian kuaile.
Happy New Year.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Xinnian kuaile. Thanks so much for joining us today. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. You've been watching "The Brief." Please do stay
with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:00:00]
END
