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The Brief with Jim Sciutto
CNN International: Sources: Iran Laying Mines in Strait of Hormuz; Israel Carrying Out "Targeted" Ground Raids in Southern Lebanon; Lebanon Denounces Hezbollah; White House Gives Mixed Messages on Iran War Timeline; CNN Team in Tehran Seeks Shelter from Strikes; Israel Launches "Board Wave" of Strikes Across Iran; U.S. Military Says it Destroyed 16 Iranian Minelayers; Cyberterrorism Threat. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired March 10, 2026 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR, "THE BRIEF": Welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington, and you're
watching "The Brief."
Just ahead this hour, sources tell CNN that Tehran is laying mines now in the Strait of Hormuz. As President Donald Trump confirms that ten inactive
minelaying ships have been destroyed by U.S. forces. He says he will not allow Iran to hold the world hostage over oil. Our team in Tehran seeks
shelter from strikes as Iranians struggle for more than ten days of war now. We will have analysis of that struggle from Christiane Amanpour. And
on alert, some fear the widening conflict could prompt a wave of cyber- terrorism around the world. That story and plenty more coming up.
We do begin with the ongoing war in the Middle East. Sources say that Iran has begun laying mines along the Strait of Hormuz, which is, of course, one
of the world's busiest and most important shipping corridors, particularly for oil. President Donald Trump says that the U.S. has already destroyed
ten Iranian minelaying boats. About one-fifth of all crude oil travels through the Strait. The war has now effectively closed that waterway.
Major oil producers, such as Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, have already begun cutting their output as a result, which threatens the global energy supply.
U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth said today was the heaviest day of U.S. strikes on Iran so far. No signs of the war ending or being complete, as
the president said yesterday. It is still unclear what the U.S. and what Israel's long-term plan is for the country. Hegseth says there's no rush.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE HEGSETH, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: We will not relent until the enemy is totally and decisively defeated. But we do so. We do so on our
timeline and at our choosing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: The U.S. involvement in this war has come at a steep cost. More than 1,700 people have been killed across the region. The Pentagon now says
that some 140 U.S. service members have been injured. As we've noted before, seven have been killed. Hundreds of those killed in this war have
been in Lebanon, many of them children.
The Israeli military is carrying out what it calls targeted raids now into southern Lebanon amid what could be a deeper push onto the ground in that
country. CNN's Matthew Chance is in Beirut. And, Matthew, this has already forced many hundreds of thousands of people from their homes. Can you tell
us where they're going? I mean, is there a safe place for them to go?
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, that's a good question, unfortunately not with a very satisfactory answer
because, I mean, this whole country at the moment is subject to various evacuation orders and strikes by the Israeli military as well as ground
operations in the south of Lebanon as well by the Israeli forces who are clashing with fighters from the Hezbollah, the Iranian-backed militia
group. But you're right, the numbers of people that have been forced from their homes in this sort of aspect of the sort of broader conflict has
become enormously high.
We're looking at more than 700,000 people, according to government statistics here in Lebanon, who have been forcibly evicted essentially and
are on the move. And clearly that is a struggle for the Lebanese authorities, even with the help of the various local and international aid
organizations that are trying to do their best here. It's a struggle to find them shelter and food and the right kind of care to stop them, medical
care, for instance, to stop the casualty rates rising even more. There are already more than 500 people in addition to the casualties in the Iran war
that have been caused here so far since this latest round of fighting took place.
There's another problem as well which is starting to emerge, which Lebanese officials are talking to us about as well as aid workers, is that, you
know, one of the problems with such a massive transfer of people from one area to the next in a country like this which is rife with ethnic and
religious tensions is that those tensions are starting to resurface.
[18:05:00]
And there have been various clashes reported in the streets between rival religious and ethnic groups, that against an atmosphere in which Hezbollah
is continuing its attacks on Israel and many other Lebanese are furious and frustrated with Hezbollah for dragging the country into this kind of
situation. So, it is a very tense environment here with a, you know, really escalating humanitarian crisis, Jim.
SCIUTTO: And it shows the fragility of those ceasefires, right? It was only a few months ago that a ceasefire was negotiated. Of course, now that
front of this war opened yet again. Matthew Chance, please stay safe there in Beirut with your team.
Here in Washington, White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt says that President Trump will determine when Iran has met his demand for
unconditional surrender.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Ultimately, the operations will end when the commander-in-chief determines the military objectives
have been met, fully realized, and that Iran is in a position of complete and unconditional surrender, whether they say it or not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: So, what does that actually mean? The fact is, when we listen to the president in recent days, he's made some conflicting statements.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: We're achieving major strides toward completing our military objective. And some people could say they're pretty
well complete.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You've said the war is, quote, "very complete." But your defense secretary says this is just the beginning. So, which is it and
how long should Americans be prepared for this war to last for?
TRUMP: Well, I think you could say both. The beginning, it's the beginning of building a new country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Kristen Holmes is live at the White House. And, Kristen, listen, these statements are confusing at best. I wonder, from where you're
sitting, is the White House being deliberately vague here as to when this might be over?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, they certainly don't want to box themselves in. They understand that if they give a
definitive timeline, they have to stick to it. And right now, it seems that they honestly don't know. What they have done now is put this squarely on
President Trump, who he himself has said he'll make a decision when he makes a decision.
I mean, we heard from Pete Hegseth earlier today. He was asked specifically about a timeline that he gave that was three weeks to eight weeks. He kind
of backtracked, saying that he doesn't think that's what he said, and then said that while they are working to destroy the capabilities of Iran when
it comes to missiles and their military, that ultimately President Trump would be in charge of when this was over, that he controlled the throttle.
And then we heard from Karoline Leavitt shortly afterwards and said almost the exact same thing. So, they've booked this squarely on President Trump
with no real metrics onto what would make President Trump decide that this war was over.
And essentially saying that while they do have this list of objectives, that it's going to be President Trump who decides when those objectives are
met and if they are met. So, there are still an enormous amount of questions here. And yes, do I think that this is deliberate? Of course.
They don't want to be beholden to any sort of timeline. But there are real questions here for Americans who are involved.
Not only did we see today that roughly 140 troops have been injured, eight of them severely injured. We know seven troops have been killed since this
started. This just started 11 days ago. We're still in the infancy if this is going to be a long-lasting war.
And while Pete Hegseth says, the secretary of defense, continues to say this is not a forever war, it certainly feels forever or at least open-
ended when no one can give you any sort of a time frame, Jim.
SCIUTTO: So, let me ask you another question about something that the administration has been vague about, and that is what steps the U.S.
military is taking to secure the Strait of Hormuz. The president, of course, has talked about insurance, backing insurance for those ships. He's
talked right up to escorting those ships. Doesn't appear to be evidence of escorting now. We're reporting there are mines in the water. The president
says they've destroyed many minelaying ships. What is the status of U.S. military action around that strait?
HOLMES: Well, it's actually very confusing because we saw a tweet from the secretary of energy, Chris Wright, earlier where he says that the Navy has
successfully escorted an oil tanker through the Strait of Hormuz. So, a huge deal, right? Well, that tweet's been deleted. And we're told that some
staffer wrote that tweet. It's actually not true. The Navy has not escorted any oil tankers through the Strait of Hormuz. So, OK, what is actually
happening? Well, they would say that all options remain on the table.
The other part of this that was a little bit conflicting was President Trump's two posts about these mines in the Strait of Hormuz put down by
Iran. First, he says that we have no evidence and no reports that this is happening. Then about 15 minutes later he says in the last several hours
we've destroyed 12 of these minelaying boats. So, not sure why we were targeting them if we had no intel that they were actually laying mines.
It's all very garbled right now, and nothing about it is clear on how this is supposed to work.
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They have continued to say that they are leaving all options on the table, whether it comes to the Strait of Hormuz, whether it comes to boots on the
ground in Iran. But all of this wishy-washiness is making not only just Americans uncomfortable, but even Republicans.
I mean, these Republicans have an election in just a few months. They're trying to be out there on the campaign trail, and instead now they have a
war looming over them, and the cost of oil is expected to go up exponentially. We've already seen it go up. It's supposed to get up even
higher. We heard that from the White House today, with no real end in sight.
SCIUTTO: Yes. All options on the table, even differing realities on the table, one might say. Kristen Holmes at the White House, appreciate it.
Well, according to Iran's U.N. envoy, more than 1,300 civilians have been killed since the war began just a little over a week ago. Our Fred Pleitgen
and his team are in Tehran. We should mention CNN operates there with the permission of the Iranian government, as required under local regulations,
however, maintains full editorial control over what it reports. Here's his report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There's been heavy bombardment in Tehran over the past 24 hours, as we both
heard and felt. This morning, we visited a site when all of a sudden it was targeted again.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think we should go.
PLEITGEN: Yes, we should go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We go, we go, we go.
PLEITGEN: Yes. OK. We're hearing jets overhead. There's anti-aircraft cargo going out. It's supposed to be getting out of here as fast as
possible.
So, that just goes to show how fast things can turn bad here. We were filming at a site that was apparently -- remove this mask -- struck
yesterday.
PLEITGEN (voice-over): Earlier, we'd spoken to folks caught in the attack.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I was in the basement. I was thrown against the opposite wall. I was under the rubble. That's it. I
don't know what else to say. I'm sorry.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: A man there in tears. Well, our own Christiane Amanpour grew up in Tehran, covered the country many times in her career. And, Christiane,
as you know, the president at times has said that the U.S. is fighting this war in the name of the Iranian people. Right. I mean, he's named other
goals, but certainly to give them a new government. And yet, at this point, many thousands displaced, many hundreds killed. They now have a supreme
leader who's the son of the last one. How are they reacting to this and do they feel that this war might lead them to a better future?
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Well, I think you saw from Fred's report there, short as it was, it was very, very visceral. And
it is showing what I'm hearing, what other reporters are hearing, that the longer this goes on and the more civilians are either caught in the
crossfire, whether it's close to whatever targeting is going on, whether it is targeting -- I mean, hitting civilian areas. You know, people are
getting more and more scared. Obviously, they would. It is a terrifying thing to be under the bombardment of the most sophisticated militaries in
the world, Israel and the United States.
And we know already that in war there are incidents which are, you know, civilian casualties. The Minab Girls' School, for instance, with more than
170 of the girls killed there, according to the authorities, has now just about been determined to have been caused by an American Tomahawk missile.
The New York Times and others have done meticulous investigation with all the geolocations, the videos of the Tomahawk. Absent actually being on the
ground, they have concluded, and the U.S. was operating that area, and that was on day one.
Now, you see more and more of these civilian areas that are being hit. It's been reported that some schools, some hospitals, residential areas. Having
said that, there is a good number of people there who still hope that this bombardment will rid them of this regime. So, I would say there's a core of
people who absolutely want that, and then there's a huge number of people who are just plain scared.
And I think that you can't underestimate that when you also hear people like Israeli prime minister or the American president saying, you know,
we're doing this for you any minute now, we're going to come and make it possible for you. So, far, it's just been them trying to take shelter where
they can. And very sadly, I would say from a heritage perspective, you know, Jim, Iran has a 2,500-year-old history.
But unfortunately, some of the great historical and cultural landmarks have been hit, whether deliberately or not. The brilliant what is called Chehel
Sotoon, big, big palace in Isfahan, the statue of the great Persian poet Ferdowsi in downtown Tehran, the Golestan Palace, where the previous Shah
was actually crowned, all of these have been damaged.
[18:15:00]
And, you know, this gets to a situation where -- you know, when you have also the president of the United States now saying, as you saw on The Post
last night, that Iranians are some of the most evil people, and then Tehran, saying that they're barbaric savages. You know, this stuff doesn't
sit well with Iranian people. So, it's a very confused message that's going to them.
SCIUTTO: No question. I understand you spoke to the former Saudi intelligence chief who told you the Israeli prime minister convinced
President Trump to support his views on Iran. And it's interesting because when I speak to Israeli officials, they say Israel is willing to go much
longer in this war. The president is sending conflicting messages on that.
Are you hearing from the Saudis that the U.S. and Israel are in this together for the length of this war as well?
AMANPOUR: Well, we talked about that and other things, but first and foremost, I do believe, as your Israeli sources say to you, that there is
probably a difference of objective between Israel and the United States.
For instance, in the United States, I think we who've covered this many, many years can safely, safely say that there is no coherent rationale
either for the war or a coherent roadmap for an exit strategy or an ultimate goal. The idea that from the spokesperson at the White House, they
would say, well, President Trump will decide when his conditions for unconditional surrender have been met, even if they don't actually say it.
This is confusing.
And Israel, on the other hand, is not confused. They absolutely are doing what they wanted to do for decades and what they've been doing in the
region. That is heavy bombardment, trying to collapse the regime, but most importantly for them, trying to make sure that there is nothing left of any
kind of nuclear program and nothing left of any missile program. And they also clearly are trying to, you know, kill off the remnants of Iran's
international proxies, that is Hezbollah in Lebanon.
And if you consider that right now Israel is waging a two-front war, both on the ground in Lebanon and in the air in Lebanon and over Iran. I mean,
if we believe -- why shouldn't we believe it? The authorities are saying the Lebanese say that 700,000 Lebanese are on the move. I mean, this is
catastrophic in such a short period of time. And where do they go?
And the same, you know, in Iran, we're hearing -- I mean, will they, won't they? The Americans put ground troops as if this was just a kind of a
decision. This is huge. I mean, I remember covering the first Gulf War. The United States for months built up a massive international coalition,
500,000 troops from America and all over the world. And they had a clear exit strategy and it was only to push Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait, which
he had invaded. It was clear and they had the wherewithal and they had the strategy and they had the messaging and they did it. And that was that.
SCIUTTO: Yes. I mean, even with the 2003 invasion, as you know, there was at least a public effort by the Bush administration to bring some others on
board, build a public case, et cetera. Not so here. Christiane Amanpour, we do appreciate you joining.
AMANPOUR: Thank you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Still coming up on "The Brief," the White House special envoy says that Russia told President Trump it did not share intelligence on U.S.
military forces with Iran. U.S. intelligence says the opposite. We're going to the full details next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:20:00]
SCIUTTO: Today Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth warned Russia not to get involved in the Iran war a day after President Trump said that he had a
nice phone call with the Russian leader Vladimir Putin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEGSETH: The president said it was a good call, I was not on it, but those that were said it was a strong call reaffirming hopefully the opportunity
for some peace in Russia-Ukraine and also a recognition that as it pertains to this conflict they should not be involved.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: The fact is, sources tell CNN, Russia is involved and that it is helping Iran by sharing intelligence on the location and movements of U.S.
forces in the region. So, when asked about that, how did the White House Special Envoy Steve Witkoff respond?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE WITKOFF, WHITE HOUSE SPECIAL ENVOY: I can tell you that yesterday on the call with the president, the Russians said that they have not been
sharing. That's what they said. So, you know, we can take them at their word, but they did say that. And yesterday morning, independently, Jared
and I had a call with Ushakov who reiterated the same. So, you know, that's a better question for the intel people, but let's hope that they're not
sharing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Joining me now is Democratic Congressman Gregory Meeks. Thanks so much for taking the time. Good to have you back.
REP. GREGORY MEEKS (D-NY): Good to be with you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: I have to say that when I heard the envoy who's met Putin many times say, take Russia at its word, it reminded me of that infamous
Helsinki moment in the first Trump administration, which I might, if you don't mind, play for our viewers again to remember the president's reaction
there regarding U.S. intelligence that Russia had interfered in the 2016 election. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: My people came to me. Dan Coats came to me and some others. They said they think it's Russia. I have President Putin. He just said it's not
Russia. I will say this. I don't see any reason why it would be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: What's your reaction to see the president, the Trump administration yet again, believe Russia over their own intelligence
agencies?
MEEKS: It's unbelievable, Jim. And here we go again. Russia must have something on the president. I don't know what it is, but here again,
there's never been pressure on Russia, even for its illegal war against Ukraine. He blames Zelenskyy, and for wherever the reason is, because now I
believe we're doing very similar to what Russia is doing in Iran to what Russia is doing in Ukraine in the sense that both have the most weapons, et
cetera, but they have not had any plans, and this could be another endless war.
We thought with Russia in Ukraine, it would be a week or two. That's what they said. That's what it would go, a month at most. Four years later,
they're still at it. Here we go in the United States. How long are we going to be in this? Who knows?
SCIUTTO: Another similarity is that, of course, Vladimir Putin has never called his ongoing invasion of Ukraine a war. He uses this term special
military operation. You've heard the president and his team put out a lot of different words other than war. The president said excursion yesterday.
Your colleagues in the Senate, they're pledging to continue to force a war powers vote, particularly if Hegseth and Rubio don't testify. Do Democrats
in Congress still have leverage to do so because they've tried before and it hasn't gotten anywhere?
[18:25:00]
MEEKS: Yes, Jim. In fact, I have a war powers resolution, and I have it as a privileged resolution that I will bring forward if this war is still
going on after 60 days. We know that the war powers resolution that failed last week failed only by four votes.
And so, I've been talking to both Democrats, those four Democrats, and talking to a few Republicans also, so that I will bring forward my
resolution that I have ready to go after the 60-day period has expired. And we will go at this again because clearly the president has no plan.
You know, we see what's happening in the Gulf of Hormuz. No plan has been talked about when they went into war, how they're going to end the war. No
plan as to how much it's going to cost. It's costing the American people now a billion dollars a day. No plan.
So, we must make the president of the United States come back to Congress, and we should not give up our constitutional responsibilities and the power
that we have, which is primarily the power of the purse, unless we have a plan, and that plan should be articulated to the American people and to the
United States Congress.
SCIUTTO: We're already seeing this war, the effects of this war ripple outside of the region, certainly in the oil markets, but we're learning
that the U.S. is moving air defense resources from the Korean Peninsula to the Middle East now. Of course, they're there for a reason, threat from
North Korea, threat from China. Are you concerned that a country such as China might seek to take advantage of the war in Iran to up to and
including military action against Taiwan?
MEEKS: Yes, I'm very concerned about all of this. What the president has done by going into a war of his choice is put and make America less safe.
When you're spending a billion dollars a day and you're wearing out and utilizing all of the ammunition that we have, it put -- it makes us weak in
other areas where we should be on our game.
So, yes, I am very concerned because this war of choice by President Trump is, in fact, making America weaker and hurting my friends and allies around
the world.
SCIUTTO: Before we go, I want to ask you a question about the Save Act legislation, which, as you know, the president very much support.
Karoline Leavitt said today Trump wants, quote, "all the options on the table." I mean, he seems to be keeping even on the table the option of
Republicans breaking filibuster rules. CNN's polling has three quarters of Americans being in favor of this act, including, of course, many Democrats.
Can you explain the Democrats position as to why they oppose this act?
MEEKS: Well, I'm a product of my seeing my parents as a young child, not able to vote in the South. You know, this is a reminder of what took place
on the Jim Crow, where folks of color and poor folks were not able to vote. And you put up all kinds of obstacles. Poor people who may not have the
same ideas that you have. Well, the cost factor therein. This is about freedom to vote, the right to vote not being denied.
There's been the history of this country has been where obstacles were put up. People died and fought for the right to have the right to vote. And we
must insist on that happening. We will not give in to this president, clearly, who has divided this country and continues talking about maybe
that's what he wants to do. He says, make America great again. He wants to go back to the America that had Jim Crow. And that's a lot of his domestic
policies seem to indicate just that.
SCIUTTO: And we saw him yesterday again, repeat these allegations of widespread fraud that have long been debunked. Congressman Gregory Meeks,
we do appreciate you joining.
MEEKS: Thank you for having me.
SCIUTTO: And we'll have much more news right after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:30:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to The Brief. I'm Jim Sciutto. And here are the international headlines we're watching today.
U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth says the war with Iran will end when, in his words, quote, "the enemy is totally and decisively defeated." He
told reporters President Trump, quote, "gets to control the throttle and will decide when the war will come to an end."
Police in Canada are investigating what they call a national security incident after shots were fired at the U.S. consulate in Toronto. Witnesses
say two suspects fired a gun and fled in a car. No injuries reported at the heavily fortified building. Police have not determined a motive. U.S.
embassies and consulates have increased security as the war with Iran has expanded.
The Iranian women's football team is on its way home from Australia without, however, seven members. Prime Minister Anthony Albanese says five
players were granted humanitarian visas in his country. The home affairs minister says another player and staff member were also granted asylum
after asking authorities. The players stood silent during the national anthem before a game last week, putting them, they believe, at risk.
Now, to the latest developments in the war with Iran. The White House says, quote, "operations will end when President Donald Trump determines
objectives have been met," end quote. Iran's U.N. envoy says U.S.-Israeli strikes have killed more than 1,300 people since the war began. U.S.
Central Command has just posted this video showing new strikes on Iranian ships. U.S. military says it destroyed several Iranian naval ships,
including 16 minelaying ships. Strikes come after sources tell CNN that Iran has started to lay mines in the crucial Strait of Hormuz, one of the
world's most critical oil-shipping routes.
Joining me now, retired U.S. Army General Wesley Clark, former NATO Supreme Allied Commander and founder of Renew America Together. General, good to
have you back.
GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET.), FORMER NATO SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER EUROPE: Thank you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: So, first, tell us where you think this war stands. Is the U.S. close to achieving its objectives, its many objectives, as they've been
laid out so far?
CLARK: Well, I think it's really up to the president to decide. We've talked about a lot of objectives. And, you know, when you say you've taken
out 90 percent of their ballistic capacity and 80 percent of their drone capacity, that's good. Now, what's it take to get the remaining 10 percent
and 20 percent? Probably a lot tougher.
You've taken out their leadership. You've taken out a lot of their Republican Guard headquarters, Revolutionary Guard headquarters and
missile-launching sites like that. So, a lot has been accomplished militarily. And the president really wants to decide how much is enough.
[18:35:00]
I'd be surprised with the new leadership whether they're going to actually surrender. But maybe if you bring in mediation, somebody from outside who
can talk sense to the new ayatollah, maybe there will be a succession of hostilities. Otherwise, I think you've got a bunch of dead enders in there
who don't care about their own people and will just hang on and hang on.
I think it's really good to see taking out those minelaying ships in the Strait of Hormuz. That is a critical point for us. We've got to get that
Strait open and as soon as possible.
SCIUTTO: There was an interesting moment earlier today when the U.S. energy secretary tweeted that the U.S. was escorting at least one ship
through the Strait of Hormuz and then deleted that tweet. Can you describe how large and how resource-intensive such an operation would be to escort?
You know, you've got dozens of ships waiting on the other side right now to escort those ships safely through the Strait of Hormuz to, in effect, open
up that choke point.
CLARK: You know, it's going to be -- it is going to be very intensive because unlike the 1980s when we did this, there are many more weapons
available to cause problems. Now, there are still reports of many submarines. I don't know that we've taken any of those out that could
attack ships from below the surface. The depth in this channel is about 60 meters. These are small submarines. You couldn't get a U.S. submarine in
there, but you could presumably get one of these to come in and shoot a torpedo.
You could put drones in. You could fire ballistic missiles. You could be on the high ground overlooking the Straits and fire artillery. And you could
use, let's say, GPS-guided munitions, which I'm sure the Iranians have, along with some of that information maybe the Russians have passed through
them. And so, it's a much more complicated problem.
You have to protect against drones. You have to protect against small boats. You have to protect against mines. You have to protect against
missiles and submarines. And it's not just a matter of putting a U.S. destroyer with each oil tanker. So, we have to think through this really
carefully.
SCIUTTO: Before we go, Trump, as you know, has not ruled out the possibility, at least, of ground troops, in particular to secure those many
hundreds of kilograms of enriched uranium buried deep, deep underground at Iran's nuclear sites. How complex and how dangerous -- crucially, how
dangerous would such an operation be for U.S. ground forces or perhaps a combination of U.S. and Israeli forces?
CLARK: It depends partially on where we're going in. If we're within 50, 70, 100 miles of the coastline and we can get helicopters and V-22 Ospreys
in there and we can have overhead air cover and we can pick up with helicopter evacuation, we can put a large force in there on the ground,
establish a perimeter, get in, get out. We could do that. If it's deep in the Iranian desert, 300, 500 miles deep, then you're into the sort of
refueling process and trying to stage before you go in.
So, you've got a ground base like we had to do in Iran in 1980. And that didn't work out too well. So, that would be much more complicated. And we
have to be careful. We don't want to be suckered into an ambush on this because we're not sure, I think, where all of that might be. Maybe it is in
the sites we bombed previously. But maybe it's not. Maybe there are different sites. So, as we develop this information, we might have to go in
more than once.
So, this would be something that really requires the maximum capability of our U.S. Special Operations Command. I know we can do it, but it will be
risky.
SCIUTTO: No question. And the president's acknowledged such risks. General Wesley Clark, thanks so much for joining.
CLARK: Thank you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Still ahead, a dire warning from the head of the world's largest oil firm over the ongoing war with Iran. We're going to look at the
conflict's economic impact coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:40:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back. In today's Business Breakout, Wall Street finished Tuesday's session little changed. Stocks pulled back late in the session
amid reports that Iran is beginning to lay mines in the Strait of Hormuz.
The U.S. military said a short time ago it had destroyed 16 Iranian minelaying ships near that strait. The price of oil settled sharply lower
and is now trading below $90 a barrel again. The White House offered no new measures today to ease the oil crisis, but it promised that U.S. gas prices
should come down soon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEAVITT: Rest assured to the American people, the recent increase in oil and gas prices is temporary, and this operation will result in lower gas
prices in the long-term. Once the national security objectives of Operation Epic Fury are fully achieved, Americans will see oil and gas prices drop
rapidly, potentially even lower than they were prior to the start of the operation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: The oil industry not so sanguine. The CEO of Saudi Aramco says the war with Iran is, quote, "the biggest crisis the region's oil and gas
industry has faced." He says that further disruptions to global energy supplies could be, quote, "catastrophic." The CEO of shipping giant Maersk
is also warning the dangers of a prolonged war. His firm is already suspending some of its services in the Middle East.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VINCENT CLERC, CEO, A.P. MOLLER-MAERSK: This is going to create ripple effect, I think, for a while as we need to see how this is going to sort
itself out in the short run. We can we can manage this. But if this was to endure, this would create, I think, serious congestions and serious issues
across the global supply chain.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Joining me now is Ernest Moniz, former U.S. Energy Secretary, currently special adviser to the president of MIT. Good to have you. Thanks
so much for taking the time.
ERNEST MONIZ, FORMER U.S. ENERGY SECRETARY AND CECIL AND IDA GREEN PROFESSOR EMERITUS OF PHYSICS, MIT: Good to be here.
SCIUTTO: So, the Saudi Aramco chairman says we could be getting into catastrophic territory. You heard the comments from the Maersk CEO there.
Trump and his team and the markets, crucially, seem to be saying costs could be limited. We could get through this just fine. Who's right in your
view?
MONIZ: Well, I certainly think that what is certainly correct is that nobody really has a clue. This is how this is going to turn out. Frankly,
the administration has been giving very, very mixed signals. And as you say, that's led to a really a roller coaster on oil prices.
The West Texas benchmark, for example, went up to 119 from the 60s. Then it went down to 79. Now, it's back up to 88. Just all over the place. Traders
are obviously leaning more towards the idea that it will be a short-lived campaign. But I'm certainly not endorsing that position. I think we could
see triple digits again as this drags out.
[18:45:00]
I also think, Jim, that, you know, the focus on oil is understood. But, you know, the Strait of Hormuz also has carried about 20 percent of the world's
liquefied natural gas, LNG. And we are seeing tremendous volatility, volatility between 50 and 100 percent increases in those prices in Asia and
in Europe. And yet, because that market is not equilibrated globally the way it is in oil in the United States, we've barely seen any movement at
all in the natural gas price to now. So, it's a very, very volatile situation. And I would be loathed to guess how it's all going to play out.
SCIUTTO: And it's also where a great deal of the world's fertilizer goes through. So, there are impacts potentially on the global food supply over
the time.
MONIZ: Correct.
SCIUTTO: So, what do you think of this White House, when you hear from the White House -- please, go ahead.
MONIZ: And, Jim, I think that's a very important point that is not made enough fertilizer, but many commodities. This is going to have knock on
effects across a lot of the things that we spend our money on that are. And with affordability already being an issue, this could impact wallets quite
profoundly. Fertilizer is one example where the Gulf is heavily involved. But, you know, petrochemicals spills into so many areas of our economy.
SCIUTTO: No question. So, what's your reaction when you hear from the White House podium, not just that this will be short lived and gas prices
will be coming down soon, but hey, they might even go down more? We'll have cheaper gas than ever before. I mean, is that just Pollyanna-ish to hear
from the White House podium?
MONIZ: Well, I certainly see no reason to think that that would be the case. Of course, before the war, we all know that the oil markets globally
were, if anything, oversupplied. And that's one reason why the prices had gone down into the '60s. OPEC plus is going to put some more oil on the
market. They decided a week ago. However, with the war over things like relieving sanctions for Russian oil going to India, presumably will end.
I don't think you're going to see a complete recovery of the energy infrastructure in the Middle East. Certainly not from Iran, for example,
for a while. And don't forget, Iran, even with sanctions, has been exporting the better part of 2 million barrels a day. So, I just don't
understand how the fundamentals would lead to a lower oil price. I think we'd be satisfied if we got back basically to the ballpark that we were in
prior to the war.
SCIUTTO: Well, we'll have you back when we see where this all goes. Ernest Moniz, thanks so much for joining the program.
MONIZ: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Well, the U.S. is preparing for another effect of this expanding war, cyber-attacks by Iran and Iranian entities. We're going to speak with
a cybersecurity expert about the threats now driven by artificial intelligence.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:50:00]
SCIUTTO: The war against Iran could bring new cyber-attacks against U.S. government agencies, U.S. companies as well. U.S. national security sources
report a flurry of private warnings in just the past week urging cyber vigilance, while no specific or credible threats from Iran have been
detected. There appear to be at least a heightened environment after the killing of Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.
Joining me now is Kevin Mandia, a legend, I think we can say, in the cybersecurity world, founded Mandiant, which is now part of Google, and is
currently CEO of AI cybersecurity startup, Armadin. Good to have you.
KEVIN MANDIA, CEO, ARMADIN, FOUNDER, MANDIANT AND CYBERSECURITY EXPERT: Jim, good to be here.
SCIUTTO: So, first, tell me about just the current environment, given Iran has significant cyber capabilities. I mean, should companies, should
government agencies be concerned?
MANDIA: Well, we have a couple of advantages. In the cyber domain, Jim, it's already contested. In other words, we've seen 80 to 90 percent of what
Iran can do on offense anyway, and we had to build walls against that, you know, build a blockade against that already. Once kinetics start, you've
got to believe already, hey, this gray area called cyber is no longer gray It's all gloves come off. So, the question will be, when does it come off?
How does it come off?
Another positive to it is Iran's not the best, you know. I mean, we had a Stuxnet attack there. I don't know if you knew what happened in the Tons. I
think it was 2008. Right around then, obviously, Iran said, oh, cyber can do that. Let's come up with our own capability. But they are decades behind
what China can do, decades behind what Russia can do. That doesn't mean they're not formidable. It only takes one smart person on offense to scale
a great attack in the cyber domain.
So, unfortunately, any time there's war, you've got to prepare for the cyber domain and what might come to bear.
SCIUTTO: Now, there are a whole host of capabilities out there in the current environment. Would you expect attacks from Iran to be intended to
cause pain on the civilian population, right? I mean, you know, dimming lights in New York or water treatment or --
MANDIA: You bet. I think it's going to be that infamous -- you know, the low hanging fruit is going to go, you know, if they can -- like right now,
I don't think they have bandwidth. I don't think they're going to be going to any office buildings anytime soon when they're worried about kinetic
attacks. But what you're going to see is if you can be compromised, you will be compromised. If they can destroy your data, they'll simply destroy
your data. That's just what they're going to do.
So, you're going to see what I'd call blunt force trauma-based attacks. The one of the enterprises of their sophisticated defenses will probably fare
very good against these attacks and not have problem. So, you'll probably see things like K through 12 something gets compromised. It'll look like
ransomware, but it's not really ransomware. It's going to be whatever they can get away with the cheapest way they can do it.
SCIUTTO: Schools, hospital, I mean, things like that, right
MANDIA: Whatever they can get into. You bet.
SCIUTTO: Tell me about the environment as these cyber weapons are supercharged by artificial intelligence today.
MANDIA: Well, we are in the midst of that ship changed, Jim. What's going to happen now? First, I don't think any modern nations let the A.I. cat out
of the bag yet. If any nations got a lot of development, they've already seen what it can do. And I don't know if a modern nation wants to deal with
it on defense. In other words, even at my company, we are building offense to make sure we can train defense to be autonomous.
What you're going to see with A.I. is attacks that work at a scale and speed and have total recall that humans can't replicate. And you're going
to see attacks that used to have a human on a keyboard that would take maybe five days, take three minutes down to maybe a second. So, the speed
is going to condense. You can't have a human in a loop on defense. And we're in the window of time from between now and two years from now. If I'm
sitting here two years from now, I would say the vast majority attacks are all automated. It is all A.I. based. And you have to have A.I. on offense
built by the good guys training your A.I. on defense to stop it. You can't have a human in a loop. We're in the midst of that change, though. I
haven't seen that attack happen.
SCIUTTO: But you're saying that an attacking country might hesitate to do so because it doesn't want to face the same in return?
MANDIA: I don't think we're ready on defense. That is actually the reality. If anybody -- you know, right now I'm looking at attacks that --
we have a thing called red teams. Red teams are humans that are hired to break in the companies and do things. I've taken red teams and taken what
they've done in five days and an A.I. with agents, you can do it in under three minutes. From five days down to three minutes is right now what's
happening. I've not seen a modern nation unleash that yet.
SCIUTTO: That's a dangerous environment to say the least.
[18:55:00]
MANDIA: It's going to change. And we know it's coming. You know. So, I think, the good news, it's actually near-term probably bad news but long-
term good news because you know the solution to it. It is A.I. on offense training A.I. on defense. You will actually get better defense when you do
that. The problem is how do we make the gap from A.I. on offense? It'll get adopted first on offense before we're prepared on defense. It's just going
to get there a little bit quicker.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Kevin Mandia, appreciate you sharing your expertise.
MANDIA: Thank you, Jim. Appreciate it.
SCIUTTO: Before I leave you, as Christiane Amanpour was telling me earlier, UNESCO is warning that U.S. and Israeli airstrikes are now putting
some of Iran's cultural landmarks at risk. The Iranian government posted this video showing damage to a 17th century palace in Isfahan. Authorities
placed blame on shockwaves from an Israeli airstrike near a provincial governor's building. The U.N.'s cultural agency said it received similar
reports of damage to a palace in Tehran.
Thanks so much for joining us today. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. You've been watching "The Brief." Please do stay with CNN.
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