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The Brief with Jim Sciutto
CNN International: Trump Tells Iran to Make a Deal Before There is Nothing Left; Trump Threatens to Bomb Iran to "Stone Age"; Trump Fires U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi; Oil Prices Surge; Trump: Will Cripple Iran's Ability to Build Nuclear Bomb; Artemis II Crew Preparing to Leave Earth's Orbit. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired April 02, 2026 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR, "THE BRIEF": Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto joining you live once
again from Tel Aviv. You're watching "The Brief."
Just ahead this hour, Donald Trump tells Iran to make a deal before it's too late and there's nothing left. Oil prices surge after the president's
primetime speech fails to calm nerves. And the crew of Artemis 2 prepare to slingshot around the Earth on their way around the moon.
We begin here in Israel, and this just a few hours ago. Quite a moment. A missile slipping through Israel's air defenses, striking in Petah Tikva
part of Tel Aviv. Smoke billowing from a nearby building. Two people were injured, a man and a woman, according to an Israeli hospital.
As the attacks continue on Israel, Iran has now threatened more destruction after the president's primetime address. In which the U.S. president
threatened to, quote, "bring Iran back to the Stone Ages where they belong."
There was no exit plan, and Trump said the conflict could escalate significantly in the coming weeks. And, to be clear, no plan to reopen the
Strait of Hormuz. That's an oil hire, stocks lower.
Joining me now, Michael Oren. He's the former Israeli ambassador to the United States. Michael, good to have you.
MICHAEL OREN, FORMER ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.: Good to be with you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: First, I want to ask you about that language that the president used last night. Bomb you back to the Stone Ages. Is that the kind of
message the U.S. should be sending -- the U.S. president should be sending, which seemed to be describing the country, not just the regime?
OREN: I think the general notion is not to harm the Iranian people, to make a distinction between the Iranian people and the Iranian regime. And
sometimes that distinction is hard to draw, especially when you're dealing with the energy sources or a bridge that gets blown up. OK. The bridge can
serve military vehicles, can also serve civilian traffic. It's a very difficult line to draw.
We know, we had a deal with Gaza, we're now dealing with Lebanon, and you're dealing with an enemy that's deeply embedded within a civilian
population. So, it's always difficult to sort of pick them out and discern. The big question is, you bomb, but you bomb toward what? And we were
discussing earlier, different definitions of victory.
SCIUTTO: So, tell me, because you described that, you said that the U.S. and Israel are living in entirely different realities in terms of defining
victory. What are those two realities?
OREN: Well, there's a Western American definition of victory, which is the number of ships you sink, or the number of nuclear or ballistic missile
facilities you blow up. And then there is the Middle Eastern definition of victory, is we survived. And if we can come out of the rubble and flash a V
sign, then we've won. And they said, if you got on Gaza today and talked to people on Hamas, whether they won the war, after Israel destroyed maybe 80
percent of the buildings there, killed a great number of people, Hamas still thinks it won, because it survived. This regime will be very, very
similar.
We're talking about your son who's reading a book about the Vietnam War. You remember the body counts. As if the North Vietnamese cared about the
body counts. They -- all they cared about was surviving. And we have to deal with the Middle Eastern definition of victory, which is, we survived.
SCIUTTO: So, did you hear anything from President Trump that more clearly defined to you, or to Israel, what the endgame is here?
OREN: Well, that he's willing to give another two or three weeks did define that. I was prepared for him to declare a unilateral ceasefire,
which would not have been good for Israel. It probably would have been better than an agreement that left Iran with ballistic and nuclear
capabilities or the ability to support terrorist groups around the region. That would not have been good.
But the best deal for Israel so far is the continuation of a very intense bombing campaign against Iran that maybe affects the way the Iranian regime
sees victory. Maybe it will see victory the way it did during the Iran-Iraq War, during the early '80s when the Iranian regime basically cried uncle
and said, OK, we're going to change our policy.
[18:05:00]
SCIUTTO: What is the function of continuing to kill Iranian leaders, leaders, some of whom even the president has sometimes mentioned as people
he might be willing to talk to? I mean, can there be any negotiating path if the leaders get killed one by one?
OREN: It depends who the leaders are. If the leaders are saying, OK, if we survive, we're going to continue to try to destroy the State of Israel or
try to kill Americans or get nuclear power, develop ballistic missiles that can hit Europe, then those leaders should be escorted to the next world.
If there's a leader who rises and says, no, OK, we're willing to change the way Iran relates to its regional neighbors, the way it relates to the
International Community and to the United States, and embark on a policy in which we take a trillion dollars in, say, sanction relief and we dedicate
it to hospitals and schools and not to missiles and not to terror, then that leader should be able to negotiate.
SCIUTTO: But how do you know the answer to that question if they get killed first? I mean, that's the outcome of the negotiations.
OREN: Well, the people are being eliminated, not the strangers. We know exactly what they do, we know exactly what they say. If you had a leader
come up and say, wait a minute, hold it, maybe the course that Iran has been on since 1979 is not really the best course for the people of Iran.
SCIUTTO: President Trump a few days ago described progress in negotiations. We haven't seen evidence of that. And if you're living in Tel
Aviv, as we've been spending time here and the missiles keep coming in, it doesn't appear that peace is -- you know, peace is right around the corner.
Do you see -- does Israel see, any viable negotiating path right now?
OREN: Well, we'd like to think that there are contacts between the administration and the Iranians. I think we assume that there are contacts.
The question is, who on the Iranian side has the authority to make those contacts? There's a great, you know, diplomatic word, plenipotentiary. Who
has the ability to represent the Iranian government? When you sign on a dotted line, that means Iran is committed to that agreement. That we don't
know.
And the president said last night he's negotiating with the president of Iran, Pezeshkian, who may be a moderate figure. He is one of these people
who has survived the various levels of leadership that have been eliminated. We don't know.
The proof is going to be in the agreement itself. Does the agreement eliminate the threat, the threat of nuclear Iran, the threat of a
ballistically armed Iran and Iran that supports terror throughout the region?
SCIUTTO: Before we go, if the president declares victory before Israel believes the war has been won, I imagine Israel will reserve the right to
continue to strike Iran, much like we saw, for instance, after the ceasefire in Lebanon. And of course, it's continuing to strike in Lebanon.
Can we expect then --
OREN: That is the major question.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
OREN: You just asked the question that every Israeli is asking. Because we understand, because of the difference in interests, America, a country
that's far away from the Middle East, it's not threatened the way Israel is immediately by Iran. And the president, looking at, you know, rising gas
prices and the cost of living, may conclude that it's in his interest to include an agreement which may leave Israel in a situation we're going to
have to continue to fight. We don't want to fight this war for five years from now when Iran, you know, rebuilds its nuclear or ballistic
capabilities.
And then there's the situation up north, which is very, very severe. We may have to lose the Galilee. People will not live there as long as Hezbollah
is firing rockets.
So, certainly, if an agreement were to be reached tonight between the United States and Iran, Israel would seek permission and backing to
continue our fight against Hezbollah.
SCIUTTO: Michael Oren, appreciate you joining us.
OREN: Thank you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Thanks so much. Back in Washington, a major shakeup inside the Trump administration as the U.S. president has ousted the attorney general,
Pam Bondi. Sources tell CNN that President Trump was frustrated with Bondi on several fronts, including her handling of the Epstein files. However, he
was effusive in his praise for her on Truth Social, even as a letter goal, calling Bondi, quote, "a great American patriot and a loyal friend."
Bondi says she will work with Todd Blanche, who had been her deputy, now becomes the acting attorney general. House Oversight Committee Democrats
say that Bondi must still appear for a deposition related to those Epstein files.
For reaction now, Democratic Congressman Steve Cohen joins from Memphis. Congressman, thanks so much for taking the time.
REP. STEVE COHEN (D-TN), MEMBER, U.S. HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: You're welcome. Thank you for having me.
SCIUTTO: So, you were among some of the more aggressive questioners of Bondi during recent hearings on Capitol Hill. There's of course a subpoena
still out for her testimony. Oversight Democrats say they will enforce that subpoena. Do you see her honoring that subpoena and showing up to testify?
COHEN: I suspect she will, but I don't know. She may ask for some privileges and claim certain discussions not relevant, but I think she'll
show up.
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SCIUTTO: Tell me the significance of her leaving. Do you believe that her departure and the ascension of Todd Blanche, who's the president's, of
course, former personal attorney. Will that fundamentally change the way the Department of Justice is operated?
COHEN: Well, Ghislaine Maxwell will have a closer friend in the Justice Department than she had before. She and Blanche obviously hit it off real
well in Florida when they talked about Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump. And that's how she ended up in Texas. God knows where she could end up now
with Blanche as being the head of the Justice Department. She may be totally free.
But Pam Bondi never should have been the head of the Department of Justice. Just like Kristi Noem never should have been in the cabinet either. This is
the worst cabinet in the history of America. And too many people there have no qualifications. They just look good. Trump picks people on the way they
look. Women of their pulchritude, men if they look rugged and manly. And unfortunately, we have a cabinet that's not very effective.
And there are others that should go too. I would think that Kash Patel should be worried. And if it weren't for Robert Kennedy Jr.'s father, he
might be worried too.
SCIUTTO: When we and others report that the president was frustrated with Bondi's handling of the Epstein files, is it your view that she that he
believes she did not protect him sufficiently from the files release and the ongoing investigations?
Can you hear me OK, Congressman? We might have lost the signal there. We'll attempt to get that back. Oh, there he is, Congressman, you hear me now?
COHEN: Yes, yes. Yes.
SCIUTTO: I'll just repeat the question for clarity. Do you believe that when we report that the president was frustrated with her handling of the
Epstein files, that the bottom line is she didn't protect him sufficiently from the files?
COHEN: Well, that could have been part of it, I'm sure. But Trump gives her a job, which he gave her the protection of him. And he and she did a
great job protecting him. I mean, I'm sure there's evidence that's not going to ever surface that she or Bill Barr had something to do with
disposing of. And she's -- they conveniently lost those three depositions of Jane Doe. They were fortunately found, but nevertheless, suspiciously
disappeared.
That, you know, he wanted to blame her for the problem. He thinks he can just make everything disappear. She probably did as good a job as she could
have, but not good enough to satisfy him. And the same thing goes for (INAUDIBLE) to get grand juries to indict Letitia James and James Comey.
And in the future, she'll have trouble getting Adam Schiff or Mr. Brennan or Jack Smith, all of whom are great Americans that have protected
democracy and fulfilled their oaths. But they didn't -- Trump didn't like them. And he wants them all to, you know, suffer the cost of attorney's
fees and the anguish of a trial were and/or be convicted. He'd like to see that ideally.
Well, she couldn't do it as an impossible task. And she was ever overhead, even with an easy case. But she certainly was overhead in a possible case.
And so, he's blaming her for his own maladies and his own problems. And this lashing out at every camp.
SCIUTTO: Of course, I'm speaking to you from Tel Aviv, where continue to cover the Iran war. You heard the president last night attempting to make
the case to the American people and give his plan for the war going forward. Did you hear any further clarity from him as to the war's aims or
what will be a measure of success?
COHEN: I don't think anybody's heard it because I don't think Trump's developed it. He hasn't even considered it and can't articulate it because
there's nothing there to articulate. I think it was a mistake, for one thing, for him to speak on Passover, a very holy day in the Jewish
religion, and give a presidential address. But he did it.
And he has no clue to say he was going to bomb Iran if they didn't agree with what he wanted into Stone Ages. That's a nice war criminal for you.
That's just doesn't work. They're going to be -- they thought we were the great Satan before this war. After this war is over, there's still going to
be Iran. There's still going to be clerics and they're going to think we're even a bigger Satan than before, that they will be good that they don't
have missiles and good that they may not have nuclear weapons, I don't know if we'll find the 900 plus pounds of enriched uranium and be able to take
them out or not but there's still a threat and there'll be a threat to Israel to be a threat to the other Arab countries and there'll be a threat
to the United States.
SCIUTTO: Congressman Steve Cohen, we appreciate you joining the program.
COHEN: You're welcome, Jim. Good to be with you. Happy Easter to you.
[18:15:00]
SCIUTTO: Still ahead -- you as well. Still ahead. Oil prices are surging once again, with investors pricing in now a longer and wider war with Iran.
Why spot oil prices have now hit $141 barrel. We'll explain. That's coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Welcome back. In today's Business Breakout, a volatile day on Wall Street with investors increasingly worried about how long the Iran war
will go on. U.S. stocks finished Thursday session mixed end of the week higher trading will be closed, we should note, for Good Friday.
Some major moves, however, in the energy markets, U.S. crude spiked more than 11 percent to now above $111 per barrel. Brent Crude rose almost eight
percent to one hundred and nine dollars per barrel. Airline stocks, they fell Thursday as the cost of jet fuel skyrocket. The price is more than
doubled since the start of the war.
And on the diplomatic front, the U.K.-led talks with more than 40 nations to discuss exactly how to reopen the Strait of Hormuz. Well, those
continue. Airlines are facing some tough decisions as those fuel prices continue to rise. Industry CEOs are weighing options to minimize the
fallout from the war here. Kristie Lu Stout has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Now, before the war, an economy class ticket on Cathay Pacific from Sydney to London would cost you $1,370. But
now, it costs you more than $2,000 thanks to another jet fuel surcharge. And on some days, it's over $3,500.
Before the U.S. Israeli war with Iran started, the global airline industry had forecast record profits of $41 billion for 2026. But with the price of
jet fuel more than doubling, carriers are under pressure and they're scrambling to cope. Carriers ranging from Air New Zealand to Vietnam
Airlines have started cutting flights. Korean Air is shifting to emergency management mode to deal with the supply crunch. And the president of the
Philippines has said grounding planes is a, quote, "distinct possibility."
To secure its own supply, China has banned exports of jet fuel. China's airlines are also finding opportunity during the crisis, adding thousands
of flights to Europe thanks to China's ability to save fuel by bypassing the Middle East and accessing Russian airspace.
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Nevertheless, China's carriers remain exposed to the Iran energy shock. Air China, China Eastern and China Southern Airlines are all reporting cautious
outlooks for the year. According to HSBC, fuel made up 35 to 38 percent of the operating expenses for all three airlines in the first half of the
year.
Why is Asia so vulnerable? Well, Iran has effectively closed the Strait of Hormuz, and the region relies more heavily on oil and gas that transit the
Strait than any other parts of the world. So, while Iran maintains its iron grip on the Strait, expect higher fuel costs around the world, from Asia to
the United States, and expect airlines to pass that cost on to you, the consumer.
Kristie Lu Stout, CNN, Hong Kong.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Joining us now is Matt McClain. He's a petroleum analyst for GasBuddy. Matt, good to have you. Thanks for taking the time.
MATT MCCLAIN, PETROLEUM ANALYST, GASBUDDY: Sure thing.
SCIUTTO: So, it was clear that the markets, the oil markets, did not like what they heard from President Trump last night. Can you explain the so-
called dated Brent prices going as high as $141 per barrel, different from the market price? Can you explain what that indicates and how it's
different from the market price?
MCCLAIN: Jim, it indicates a very, very sincere amount of volatility in the crude oil market exchange. And that's really something that we've been
seeing quite literally since the president walked away from the lectern last night at the White House and disappeared from the camera. Crude oil
immediately began the reaction to the speech. And you can see by the fact that these prices have been increasing, the oil markets themselves are most
definitely not impressed.
SCIUTTO: Tell us why U.S. crude is now trading higher than Brent Crude, the international standard that had been reversed since the start of the
war.
MCCLAIN: It has. And there is an indicator that would, in a better of a short form, I suppose, a better way of putting it, it is a bit unique. West
Texas Intermediate, WTI, is traditionally cheaper than Brent Crude. That's the basic way that we've always seen it.
But the president did make one particular comment in general when it comes to that, saying buy American oil. While we are still digging into exactly
whether or not we're seeing any extra demand on that, it would almost appear as if at least in an unconfirmed way that maybe some markets are
kind of hedging that a little bit and seeing exactly how much profit they can potentially make.
SCIUTTO: How about gas prices? Average price in the U.S. has now surpassed $4 a gallon, but it's not going up as quickly as the price of oil. Is there
a is there a lag effect there? And how do you see that direction going in the coming weeks as this war continues?
MCCLAIN: Yes, there's absolutely a lag there. And that's very much to be expected. You typically don't see oil prices rise. And then at the same
exact time in tandem at your local station, the price rises with it. We are going to see that upward trajectory.
On my heat map for here at GasBuddy, I'm sitting at $4.09 a gallon on a cheat screen just off camera here. That is up about a penny in the past 24
hours, up 10 cents over the past week. We're going to continue to see this in the coming days and weeks, especially with the president making the
comments that, hey, the Strait of Hormuz is there. And anybody that wants to go get it open, I'm paraphrasing here, should go in and get it open.
But the key of the matter is that created a really kind of a cold shiver up and down the spine of most oil folks because that straight of our moves
needs to be reopened right away in order to bring any kind of stability to the price point of crude oil. And the longer that we remain in a situation
that we are right now, the more that we're going to continue to see those oil prices rise and the longer it's going to take to unravel once the
Strait of Hormuz finally does reopen.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Yes, the supply issues, they certainly wouldn't disappear in a day, even if the war were to end tomorrow. Matt McClain, thanks so much
for joining.
MCCLAIN: Sure thing.
SCIUTTO: And checking some of today's other business headlines. President Trump is threatening higher tariffs on global pharmaceutical firms now,
companies that have not yet agreed to lower drug prices here in the U.S. could see tariffs on some important medications rise by 100 percent.
Tariffs set to take effect later this summer.
[18:25:00]
New sales woes for Elon Musk's Tesla. The electric car company says the global deliveries rose by a weaker than expected 6 percent in the first
quarter compared to the same time last year. Deliveries fell 14 percent compared to quarter four. Tesla produced some 50,000 more vehicles than it
delivered.
But China was a bright spot with sales of electric vehicles there rising. Shares of private credit firm Blue Owl sank to all-time lows in today's
session. The company is limiting withdrawals now from two of its funds after a wave of investors tried to get their money out. Blue Owl and other
private credit firms have been hit hard due to concerns over their lending standards, especially to firms exposed to changes from A.I.
Still coming up on "The Brief." A new book argues that President Trump's behavior follows a repeatable, intentional strategic playbook. Its author
joins us with his analysis, coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." I'm Jim Sciutto live in Tel Aviv. And here are the headlines we're watching today.
U.S. President Donald Trump has fired his attorney general, Pam Bondi. Sources tell CNN the president was frustrated with her handling of the
Epstein files. We're told he also thought she had not investigated or prosecuted enough of his political opponents. Bondi's top deputy, Todd
Blanche, who was President Trump's personal lawyer, has now been appointed acting attorney general.
The National Capital Planning Commission has approved President Trump's $400 million White House ballroom project. The board was stacked with Trump
loyalists who voted in favor of the measure. What comes next is unclear, however. The project hit a legal hurdle when a federal judge ordered
construction to stop earlier this week.
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Authorities in Florida have released new body camera video of the arrest of golf legend Tiger Woods after his rollover accident. The crash happened
last Friday afternoon on Jupiter Island near his home. Deputies in the video are seen taking items out of Woods' pocket, also giving him sobriety
tests. They say they found prescription drugs on him. Authorities say that Woods failed that sobriety test.
President Trump has posted this video on social media, showing what he said was the collapse of Iran's biggest bridge. He said there will be much more
to follow. During a speech on Wednesday, the president vowed to intensify U.S. attacks on Iran over the next two to three weeks. His primetime
address, however, offered no details on how he would define victory in the war or his exit strategy. Tehran and its proxies continue to strike Gulf
nations and here in Israel, a rocket strike damaged this kindergarten in northern Israel.
Joining me now is Alexander Cornwell. He's a senior correspondent for Reuters based in Jerusalem. You know, as you and I have been covering this
war, one of the most difficult things has been pinning down the president on what exactly the objectives of the war are. You've been zeroing in on
one in particular, and that is the control of Iran's enriched uranium. What contradiction did you see this week?
ALEXANDER CORNWELL, SENIOR CORRESPONDENT, REUTERS: That's right. I mean, early this week, the Israeli prime minister gave an interview to Newsmax
where he said, and I quote, "that the focus of President Trump, his demand is to take out that uranium." Now, that interview was aired on Monday. And
then on Wednesday, President Trump told Reuters, I don't care about that.
So, there's definitely mixed signals. It's unclear what the objectives are. And I think this is just one of many examples we've seen over the past four
or so weeks.
SCIUTTO: I mean, it could simply be the president changing his mind. It's interesting because from the Israeli perspective, Israeli officials have
been quite consistent saying that they will define victory in part by controlling that nuclear material. What happens if the president declares
victory before dealing with that issue? And Israel calculates, as it seems they will, that it still poses a danger to them. Does Israel attempt to do
so on its own?
CORNWELL: So, the Israeli language has also changed over the course of the past four weeks. They talk about removing the long-term threat rather than
removing it entirely, which begs the question, are we going to be back here in a year from now, in a few years from now?
Now, the Israelis may want to keep going if Trump pulls the pin on the war. But the question is, will he simply tell him like he did in June last year
that they have to stop?
SCIUTTO: Israeli officials have been quite careful not to get on the wrong side of Trump publicly or not to put any daylight, frankly, between
themselves and Trump, even when it's quite clear that they have different definitions of success in this war. How do they manage that then if Israel
still considers Iran an existential threat, as you often hear it described, and President Trump says, I'm satisfied?
CORNWELL: That's a very good question. And the Israeli prime minister will face an election later this year. And he also has to sell this war as a
win. As we've seen in the polling in Israel, while there's widespread support for this war, it's not necessary translating into support for the
prime minister. And so, Netanyahu will have to continue walking that balance, that delicate balance of his relationship with the president.
SCIUTTO: Yes, I was going to ask you about the public reaction here to the war. And I hear a similar and of course, read the polling. Is there any
change? Have you seen any change in that support over the course of the four weeks? I mean, especially given the frequency of the Iranian air
attacks on the city. But as you know, you and I are running into shelters multiple times a day.
CORNWELL: That's right. I mean, we had several just a few hours ago here in Tel Aviv. I think generally that the Israelis that I speak to, they
still support the war. But there is definitely a growing sense of weariness.
We -- it does feel like there's been more impacts, more strikes, more shrapnel falling on parts of the country. And there's only so much that
people can put up with. I mean, you have children, you have the schools aren't going in. And it's the constant running to and from shelters.
SCIUTTO: Yes, the closing of the schools is something I've heard from a lot of parents, and it reminds them of COVID, frankly. And, Alexander
Cornwell, we appreciate you joining. Thanks so much.
CORNWELL: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Coming up, Yale leadership professor Jeffrey Sonnenfeld recently published a new book. He calls it "Trump's Ten Commandments: Strategic
Lessons from the Trump Leadership Toolbox." His book identifies core tactics and recurring strategies behind the president based on decades of
firsthand observation and interaction.
[18:35:00]
The book reads in part, you can't understand Donald Trump unless you understand the fundamental truth about how he sees the world. Everything,
everything is about Donald Trump and Donald Trump only. He is the center of the universe in the Trump solar system. Everything revolves around Trump.
Quite a statement.
Jeffrey Sonnenfeld joins me now. He is senior associate dean for leadership studies at the Yale School of Management. Jeff, good to have you on
tonight. Thanks so much for joining.
JEFFREY SONNENFELD, SENIOR ASSOCIATE DEAN FOR LEADERSHIP STUDIES, YALE SCHOOL OF MANAGEMENT: Jim, great to see you. I don't know how you do
without a very stiff cup of coffee at 1:30 in the morning, but we're fine here back in New Haven.
SCIUTTO: Well, it's right here with me right here off camera. Let me ask you, you know, that distillation of Trump's motivation, everything, the
world revolves around Trump. How does that square with a war, right? Because war is, you know, arguably the most difficult and consequential
decision a leader will make to take his country to war. Can a leader take a country to war and make that war all about himself?
SONNENFELD: Jim, you just nailed it. Every single chapter is right off of the day's headlines. There is -- there are 10 commandments, as we put it
out there, not that he's a particularly religious person, but he certainly does worship himself. I've known him longer than anybody in Trump 2.0
administration. And other than one cabinet member and family members, I've known him longer than anybody in Trump 1.0. I was the original critic on
"The Apprentice" TV series. I would write a column in the journal each week that NBC Universal would send me the show a day in advance. We actually
wound-up becoming friends as we had a certain burying of the hatchet.
I had predicted that he would run for president in the first article. The first essay was called "Last Emperor Trump," and he was all dressed up in
an emperor's outfit back in 2004. What we see in the headlines now is that while there's certainly good justification, as you talk about all the time,
for taking out the nuclear capabilities of Iran and what they're doing by driving their proxy terrorists around the world with -- you know, however,
there wasn't anything imminent.
Just like with Greenland, for lord's -- god's sake, there's nothing imminent there as a threat. And Venezuela, it's kept changing. Or even the
racial taunts of the Obamas in monkey suits. None of these things are inadvertent, accidental impulses. They may be missives that come out on
Truth Social at midnight, but everything Trump does is deliberate.
He is -- and Iran, it's diversionary tactics. Obviously, he doesn't want to talk about the Epstein scandal and the files. He doesn't want to talk about
affordability issues and many other topics. So, what he does is he drives it off. And I keep telling the executive producers of the Sunday shows on a
Friday, whatever they have planned on their storyboards is not going to happen on Sunday. He kicks the ball down the field. Everybody follows it.
And that's what we're seeing here. That is -- what -- it's -- he has the best -- we call it the wall of sound. He has the best diversionary tactics
of anybody.
SCIUTTO: Well, let me ask you this. You could attempt to divert people's attention. But for instance, as I'm sitting here in Tel Aviv, you can't
divert Tel Aviv residents' attention from the fact that Israeli -- that Iranian missiles are still raining down on the city. I mean, you can't
divert attention for American consumers that the price of gas is going up, right? I mean, ultimately, that -- you know, the diversions can't always
work, can they?
SONNENFELD: They can't always work. And a lot of times, his tactics backfire. So, just because he does them doesn't mean they work. But he
stays with them over and over again. This is a diversionary maneuver. But also, what he does is by threatening that he's going to obliterate
electrical generation capabilities, that he's going to wipe out all the power plants in Iran and things. This is the way he negotiates, threatening
a, you know, 185 percent tariff against China that he settles at 37.
It's not simply TACO, it's that he, instead of building a fire of trust with kinder and tingling and then a big heavy log, he takes that log and
smacks you in the nose and draws blood right away so that everything else he thinks looks reasonable by contrast. So, this is his negotiating style.
It's diversionary style, negotiating style.
And what he's trying to do is something else called the sleeper effect. That's another one of his tricks, is to keep repeating false information.
We won the war. We won the war. It's already over, despite the inconsistencies that you point out about the Gulf of -- you know, the
Straits of Hormuz, he doesn't care about, when obviously he does, is he's trying to create a distraction because he's trying to get people together
to go probably for the enriched uranium.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Well, you know, historically, remember what he said, repeat the lie over and over again.
SONNENFELD: What he -- another he does is divide and conquer. He's mad that the -- he's mad the allies don't back him up. But of course, he
doesn't like NAFTA, doesn't like NATO.
[18:40:00]
Divide and Conquer is another one of his tricks, which is, to your point, backfiring on him. He is used to somehow, somehow thinking that he can
break through the clutter by using the noise machine that he uses of really offensive insults that get attention. Well, that's backfiring as he's been
attacking NATO. He attacks NAFTA. He doesn't like the business roundtable. He doesn't like a collective action, because that's how you take down a
bully.
Well, he needs those alliances right now, and that's why the English, that's why the British, the U.K., the French, the Germans, the Italians are
denying not only minesweepers, but denying landing rights for refueling and other critical support that he needs from his allies.
What's ironic is that the -- Jared's success, and I actually worked with Jared, and this idea of this book was Jared saying, you can't criticize
effectively or even help Donald Trump, as he told us, if you don't understand my father-in-law. He's unorthodox, and people -- you can't
counter him just by calling him names, calling him a demagogue or calling him an autocrat. That's not enough, let alone supporting him waving flags
or honking horns. They've got -- you've got to understand him. And he's -- what he does is distinctive.
But every day, Jim, people are surprised by the headlines. They shouldn't be. Every single thing he does in this book, we predict it, and it's all
there. He does -- he's saying that sometimes they backfire, and on some rare occasions, they work for him.
SCIUTTO: Is it too simple to say he's attempting to apply what worked or sometimes worked in the New York real estate market to the world?
SONNENFELD: That's exactly what it is. These are tactics that he probably used as a bully in high school, in his various military schools and
everything else. These are the same tactics that he used. When I went to debate him in Kuala Lumpur in 2004 in Malaysia, it was because I was
winding up on all these different news shows talking about the leadership model that he was projecting into "The Apprentice," which is a take no
prisoners. It was basically built on the "Survivor" TV show that was on CBS.
NBC, Jeff Zucker, as we all know when he was back at NBC, was told by Jack Welch, CEO of GE, get me that show. Well, they couldn't, but they got the
producer, Mark Burnett, to throw him off the island precepts, put the principal into a business world. You know, it was a terrible model, but
Trump loved that model of divide and conquer.
You know, who would ever lead an organization where a leader is selected by killing off your co-workers? You have nobody left to lead, but that's
basically what his model was. So, yes, he uses those same tactics, the same kind of bullying tactics, distraction tactics that he did back then. This
sleeper effect of constantly repeating false information and the grandiosity.
As we see, he's not only, you know, put his name on ballrooms, bridges, bills, and Trump Rx, and the Trump financial accounts, and all the rest,
but now the nation's own currency of our 250th, putting his name on the bills, is that he has no limits to that.
What he told me in 2004, when we were in this debate, he said, I need somebody to tell me where the red lights are, where the bright lights are.
That's what I always build in, because I'll push the limits. Well, he doesn't have anybody now. In Trump 2.0, of course, he just keeps pushing
until he hits a wall. He's been called a Roomba president.
SCIUTTO: Yes. He's surrounded by people who would tell him yes. Jeffrey Sonnenfeld, it's an interesting book. Worth reading. Thanks so much for
sharing with us.
SONNENFELD: Thank you, Jim. I appreciate it. We can't wait to bring you home.
SCIUTTO: And we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:45:00]
SCIUTTO: Police in Florida have now released body cam videos showing the arrest of Tiger Woods following his car crash last week. The golfer seen on
the video on the side of the road where he failed a sobriety test. He was also heard saying that he took a phone call with the president. And this
footage new to CNN shows Woods in the backseat of a police car where he was hiccupping, something police had noted in their report. Woods has been
charged now with driving under the influence. He has pleaded not guilty. Isabel Rosales has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Woods. Mr. Woods. I just keep you down here with us, please.
TIGER WOODS: Yes, I was talking to the president.
ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Golf legend Tiger Woods tells a deputy he's just ended a phone call with President Trump shortly
before what would be his DUI arrest, a scene for the first time in new body camera video released by a Florida sheriff's office.
WOODS: I looked down at my phone and all of a sudden, boom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to just take a look at you. Is this is this comfortable for you?
WOODS: Yes, yes.
ROSALES (voice-over): He has since pleaded not guilty and has demanded a jury trial.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How much have you had to drink today?
WOODS: None.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: None? Do you take any medication?
WOODS: I take a few, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's a few?
ROSALES (voice-over): Video shows deputies questioning Woods. In an arrest report noting several signs of impairment like extremely dilated pupils,
bloodshot eyes and lethargic movements.
WOODS: Motrin, ibuprofen, and we call it --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you take all of them today?
WOODS: Yes.
ROSALES (voice-over): Part of the golf stars response redacted by the sheriff's office. Deputies allow Woods to perform the field sobriety test
sitting down on the bumper of a cruiser because of his physical limitations. Noticing his limping and stumbling, the 82 time PGA Tour
winner tells deputies he had seven back surgeries and more than 20 operations on his leg, according to the arrest report.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't move your head. Do you understand?
WOODS: You got it.
ROSALES (voice-over): During this hand coordination test near the golf legends Florida house, he's told to shut his eyes, stack his fists, clap
and count. But the arrest report shows he failed to follow instructions.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Place them behind your back. There you go. So, at this time, I do believe your normal faculties are impaired. OK? And you're
under that unknown substance. OK? So, at this time you're under risk for DUI. Yes, sir.
ROSALES (voice-over): During a pat down, deputies find two pills inside his pant pocket. Later determined by law enforcement to be the prescription
painkiller hydrocodone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's a narco.
WOODS: That's a narco?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
WOODS: OK.
ROSALES (voice-over): A deputy puts the pills away into a plastic evidence bag. After his arrest video from the back of the sheriff's cruiser shows
him cuffed and leaning back eyes closed. And on Thursday, Florida judge granted a request from his attorney to lead Woods travel out of the United
States in order to attend comprehensive inpatient treatment.
In a statement, the 15-time major winner said he is stepping away for a period of time to seek treatment, saying, quote, "This is necessary in
order for me to prioritize my being and work towards lasting recovery."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Our thanks to Isabel Rosales for that story. Coming up after the break, feeling the burn. NASA's Artemis II lunar mission answers. Another
critical phase to propel the crew around the moon and eventually back to Earth. We're going to update you on that remarkable mission.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:50:00]
SCIUTTO: You are looking at live pictures from space as NASA has now given Artemis 2 a go for a critical task. It's what's called a translunar
injection burn. It's the last major engine firing of the mission and the point of no return. It will blast the Orion capsule out of Earth's orbit
and on its way to the moon. The trajectory will carry the crew of four around the moon, harnessing the lunar gravity and then slingshotting the
capsule back to Earth.
Joining me now, Michael Wall, space flight and tech editor at space.com. Michael, it's good to have you and listen, it's always great to talk about
space. I mean, this is an amazing, it's an amazing mission. Tell us first, small scale, the importance of this next step, that final burn that kind of
sends it on its final way towards the moon.
MICHAEL WALL, SPACEFLIGHT AND TECH EDITOR, SPACE.COM: Yes, this sort of is like a make-or-break moment in the mission. They've been circling Earth for
about 24 hours now, just sort of checking out the Orion capsule, making sure all the systems are working, the life support is working because you
don't want to go into deep space around the moon if you have an issue with your spacecraft, right?
So, what's about to happen in about an hour actually is the Orion capsule will fire its main engine for about six minutes and that will change its
course to do -- to cross that sort of point of no return, which you mentioned, to go on this free return trajectory around the moon. It's not
going to enter lunar orbit, it's not going to land, but it's going to loop around the moon and come back to Earth.
And if like all goes well with this mission, you know, that's going to prove out the Space Launch System rocket for carrying people, the Orion
capsule for taking them to deep space, and it'll set the stage for much more ambitious missions in the Artemis program in the future.
SCIUTTO: One thing I love, and we're showing a little bit of a graphic of their path, their flight path, is that, you know, they're hitting a moving
target, right? Because that moon, it's orbiting the Earth as the spaceship, as a capsule is heading towards it, so of course it's got to calculate for
that. I know that we've done this before and we've been to the moon before, but that's got to involve some pretty decent math to get that right.
WALL: Yes. I've been covering this sort of thing for like 15 years, and I'm still astounded at how smart these people are who can -- they have to
get these engine burns down to the second, and they've got to change the velocity of Orion just so precisely that they like loop around it within
about 4,000 miles or so. And just -- it's just so -- it's like unbelievable that we're able to do these things.
[18:55:00]
And then if you cast back to the Apollo days, it's even more unbelievable that they did that stuff with slide rules and like without cell phones and
computers really that work. It's just -- it's mind-boggling.
SCIUTTO: I remember that scene from Apollo 13 when they had to calculate and everybody got their slide rules out, and of course we got some pretty
powerful computers. So, tell us now before we go about the final stage, looping around the moon and coming back, the difficulty of getting that
right.
WALL: Yes. So, it's pretty much -- if -- yes. If this engine burn goes well in about an hour, then everything else will mostly be sort of gravy. I
mean this is what it's all about. This is the big moment. And so, they might have to do a couple little kind of tiny -- just burns to fine-tune
their trajectory. But if this goes well, everything will be kind of set out already. They'll loop around the back side of the moon on day six of the
flight, and then they'll come back to Earth and do like a parachuted splashdown off the coast of San Diego on day 10.
And so, yes, I mean everything should already be kind of cast in stone after this big engine burn that we're about to see. And then -- yes. And
then they'll gear up toward Artemis III and then Artemis IV and building a base near the moon's south pole, which is what Artemis is all about.
SCIUTTO: Fantastic. And a lot of time in their seats as they go around. Michael Wall, appreciate you joining.
WALL: Sure thing, happy to be here.
SCIUTTO: And thanks so much to all of you. Thanks so much to all of you for joining us today. I'm Jim Sciutto in Tel Aviv. You've been watching
"The Brief." Please do stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:00:00]
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