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The Brief with Jim Sciutto
CNN International: Source: U.S., Iran Closing in on Memorandum to End War; Trump Threatens "Bombing Starts" if Iran Doesn't Make Deal; Trump to Meet with Xi in China Next Week; Remembering Ted Turner; Iran Launches Website to Help Regulate Hormuz Strait Traffic; U.S.-China Relationship; China Eager to Get the Strait of Hormuz Reopened; U.S. Court Orders Release of Epstein's Alleged Suicide Note. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired May 06, 2026 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR, "THE BRIEF": Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington, and
you're watching "The Brief."
Just ahead this hour, Iran is now reviewing a U.S. proposal to end the war. One source says the terms have been summarized in a one-page memo. Ted
Turner, the CNN founder, media mogul and philanthropist, has passed away at the age of 86. And Paris Saint-Germain squeaked past Bayern Munich and will
meet Arsenal in the Champions League final.
We do begin with what's described as cautious optimism tonight that Iran and the U.S. could be on the verge of a deal to end the war. A source tells
CNN the two sides might soon sign off on that one-page memorandum. Iran's foreign ministry says that Tehran is still reviewing the proposal.
Sticking points remain, especially what happens to Iran's huge stockpile of enriched uranium, as well as what comes next in the Strait of Hormuz. Those
issues have scuttled talks in the past. At the White House today, President Trump downplayed the war and insisted, once again, Iran really wants to
negotiate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: In this house, I don't think we're in a -- I call it a skirmish because that's what it is. It's a skirmish. And we're
doing unbelievably well, as we did in Venezuela, where it was rapid over in one day. And we're doing pretty much equally as well, I would say, larger.
But we're doing very well in Iran. It's going very smoothly. And we'll see what happens. They want to make a deal. They want to negotiate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Of course, the Iran War stretched on for weeks. In fact, hours before, the president issued a new warning to Iran, saying, quote, "If they
don't agree, the bombing starts and it will be sadly at a much higher level and intensity than it was before." It doesn't quite sound like a skirmish.
This all comes a day after Secretary of State Marco Rubio said that Operation Epic Fury was already over.
Kristen Holmes is at the White House. And I wonder, Kristen, is the president announcing the war over because he believes the U.S. won the war
or because he simply wants to end the war?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, we know one thing that the president wants the war to be over. And he needs the war
to be over, particularly as we start heading into that midterm season and the gas prices are continuing to rise. And one of the things that we know
the Republican Party in general right now does not want to deal with is any higher gas prices, as we've seen this slow escalation and with the horizons
showing that they might get even higher.
So, we know that President Trump wants this to be over. And of course, he is putting that out into the universe. But it does feel a little bit like
deja vu. Think about the things that you just mentioned, the moratorium on enriching uranium, what they're going to do with the enriched uranium that
they already have, the Strait of Hormuz.
These are things that have been contentious. They have been points, as you noted, that have broken the negotiations apart in the past. And yet we are
still here discussing that those are the things that are being negotiated and that this plan might work through some of them.
So, it's hard to be optimistic. It's hard to get an understanding of where exactly this stands. And we've heard this from the White House a number of
times over the last several weeks, only to have these negotiations either fall apart or really seem that President Trump kind of moves on to
something else.
SCIUTTO: We'll see if it holds. There have been false starts before, as you know. Kristen Holmes at the White House, thanks so much.
Well, joining us now is Jasmine El-Gamal, founder and CEO of Averos Strategies. She's a former Middle East advisor at the Pentagon. Jasmine,
good to have you back.
JASMINE EL-GAMAL, FORMER PENTAGON MIDDLE EAST ADVISER, HOST, "THE VIEW FROM HERE" PODCAST AND FOUNDER AND CEO, AVEROS STRATEGIES: Good to be with you,
Jim.
SCIUTTO: So, it was only the last couple of days that the administration was touting Project Freedom as the next step after Epic Fury. This the
effort to get ships through the Strait, the Strait. But now the president at least sending signals that perhaps Iran and the U.S. have come to an
agreement.
[18:05:00]
I wonder, is our best indication at this point that that's based on concrete progress or simply an artificial timeline that the president wants
this deal done?
EL-GAMAL: Well, I think there are a couple of things at play here, and one is that President Trump is finally or seems to be realizing that this
standoff with Iran is not going to be solved through military means. Operation Epic Fury failed to pressure the Iranians. In fact, they decided
to blockade or control ships passing through the Strait of Hormuz, affecting global shipping, affecting global markets. And then when he tried
to increase the pressure again, Iran responded by attacking the UAE and sending missiles towards the UAE. And so, obviously military pressure is
not working. So, that's one element of it.
Of course, the other element is the time pressure. You and I have been talking over the last several weeks about how this was a war of timelines
and who could sustain pressure for longer. And that's obviously proving to be the Iranians. The last thing I think is that is looming is the state is
the visit, Trump's visit to China next week. And the fact that and I've been saying this for a few weeks now, that President Trump would not want
to go and meet President Xi with this war still hanging over his head.
SCIUTTO: Yes. OK. So, that, of course, raises the question what was accomplished. But also, can an agreement hold? Because when I read about a
one-page memorandum, it has echoes to me of the many trade deals we've seen negotiated that were short on specifics and didn't have really any binding
elements to them. And we've seen those trade deals, well, it renegotiated in public or violated, et cetera. I mean, is this a reliable way to end a
war?
EL-GAMAL: Well, that's a really good question, Jim, because there's a difference here between ending hostilities and ending the war and
addressing the root causes of the tensions between the U.S. and Iran.
Now, both parties want the war to end, right? We've talked about the pressure President Trump is facing. And Iran, of course, even though it
hasn't capitulated, as President Trump expected, has been under increasingly heavier economic pressure. So, both of them want hostilities
to end.
If they can agree on ending hostilities, opening up the Strait of Hormuz again, removing the U.S. blockade, then they can start getting into these
critical issues, a lot of which were on the negotiating table back when I worked at the Pentagon during the Obama administration and were negotiated
during the JCPOA. But remember that the JCPOA took many months and many hours of technical conversations, hundreds of pages of details.
So, this certainly not going to be negotiated overnight. But if they if the two sides can agree to end hostilities and conduct the negotiations in an
environment which is free of those hostilities, then that can happen, hopefully behind closed doors and away from the glare of the cameras. But
it certainly is not going to be easy and it will take a while.
SCIUTTO: One of the proposals is to take all these hundreds of kilograms of highly enriched uranium to the U.S. And as I remember, the JCPOA, that
material would have been sent to Russia. But is that a practical option here? Is that something that Iran is likely to agree to? And how delicate
of an operation would that be?
EL-GAMAL: I mean, it's certainly being discussed. And I can't tell you how technically realistic it is and how dangerous it would be. But the fact
that they are discussing this issue, Jim, I think it goes to it shows that Iran is willing to negotiate over this, this file. There are other files
that it hasn't shown proclivity to negotiate over before like ballistic missiles, and support to proxies.
So, important reminder, I think that the nuclear file is only one of several files that are on the table here that will have to be negotiated.
And I think importantly, that this time around, when these critical issues are negotiated, Iran is going to be negotiating with the memory of what it
has been able to do over this last, right.
And so, the leverage, the balance of power is going to be different this time around. And I think the U.S. is going to have to understand that the
balance of power is different now and modify its negotiating strategy accordingly, if President Trump doesn't do that, if he still continues to
feel that the U.S. has the ultimate say in the upper hand, I think that's when we start risking sliding back into a return to hostilities.
[18:10:00]
SCIUTTO: Might it also be top of Iranian officials minds that they negotiated a deal with a previous administration who then the
administration that followed that administration, of course, Trump filing Obama then pulled the U.S. out of the deal? I mean, what confidence do they
have in a deal made now that it lasts?
EL-GAMAL: Well, that's a really important question. The question of guarantees, security guarantees, guarantees that the U.S. will not start a
war like this again, particularly not in the middle of negotiations, you know, for the third time, guarantees that the Gulf states are going to be
seeking that Iran won't do to them what it has done over the last month as well.
This issue of security guarantees is going to be one of the biggest ones I think you'll see on the table. And the U.S., as you have just implied, has
not proven itself to be a trustworthy ally. So, I think this where you're going to see mediators and coming in other actors coming in to try to put
together a package of security guarantees that all parties will accept.
SCIUTTO: Or they calculate the deal holds for now and maybe not later, right. I mean, it's also that possibility. Jasmine El-Gamal, thanks so much
for joining.
EL-GAMAL: Thanks for having me, as always.
SCIUTTO: Well, many are sending tributes in to Ted Turner, the founder of CNN, who passed away at the age of 87. He revolutionized television by
creating the first rolling news channel right here. That is, of course, CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TED TURNER, CNN FOUNDER: To act upon one's convictions while others wait to create a positive force in a world where cynics abound to provide
information to people when it wasn't available before. I dedicate the news channel for America, the cable news network.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Well, Ted Turner was more than a media innovator and mogul. He was also an environmentalist, a peace activist, a champion sailor and
philanthropist, donating famously $1 billion to the United Nations over 10 years. Turner was married three times, including the actress and activist
Jane Fonda. He is survived by five children.
Ted Turner revealed he had been diagnosed with Lewy body dementia in 2018. Three years earlier, Christiane Amanpour sat down with Ted in Montana,
where he spent his final years as both a rancher and a conservationist.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Can I ask you about how you're feeling?
TED TURNER, CNN FOUNDER: I'm feeling tired, but I'm working on it.
AMANPOUR: Do you feel you don't have the same energy than you used to?
TURNER: Oh, no question about it. I've got arterial fibrillation that's in remission right now, but it could come back at any time.
AMANPOUR: You are somebody who's known for your phenomenal success. I mean, kind of mind-blowing success and the cutting-edge reforms that you've
been doing. How much do you look at success in context with failure? What does failure mean to you? How do you look at failure? How you deal with it?
TURNER: Trying to avoid it. And I've been successful in doing that. I knew I didn't have enough money to get CNN to break even. But I figured, I said,
how am I going to get around it? I thought it through real carefully. And I figured if I get on the air and people see just how helpful it's going to
be, I'll be able to raise the money later on. And I was able to do just exactly that.
It was hard because of the finances. The first year, the budget, we were 100 percent over the budget on expenses. It cost us twice as much to run as
we had projected. And the income was half as much as we predicted. So, the bottom line was one quarter of what we projected. And the bankers just
said, Ted, we're sorry. This is not a bankable deal. You've got to give us our money back. I said, give me a little time to get somebody else to lend
it to me.
It was really fun. I mean -- and it was scary. It was just as scary or scarier than the wind in the facet race. But all storms have a lot in
common. You know, you're in danger. You've got to be a cool head. Timing is important in everything that you do. The first 10 years, we lost money. And
then we broke even in the 11th year. And now, we're making a decent profit.
[18:15:00]
AMANPOUR: When you were very young, your father told you to be sure to set your goals so high that you can't possibly accomplish them in one lifetime.
That way, you'll always have something ahead of you. Did you set your goals high enough? Most people would say yes. And you've accomplished them all.
TURNER: Yes. Well, I haven't accomplished them all. We haven't gotten rid of nuclear weapons. And we haven't got -- we're headed in the right
direction, but we haven't gotten far enough along with fighting global climate change. That after nuclear weapons is the greatest danger that we
face, and it's preventable. The good thing is almost everything is preventable. The bad things, all you've got to do is do them.
AMANPOUR: You have done so many amazing things, and you have had and are living an amazing life. One of the things I'm really interested in is this
incredible FastNet race in 1979.
So, what do you remember today about that race, which was such a dangerous race?
TURNER: It was a dangerous race. I remember that. It was -- the winds got up to close to 70 miles an hour, and the waves got to 40 feet high,
according to the statistics. So, it was rough, and 14 people were killed.
AMANPOUR: Did you know it was going to be as big as it was?
TURNER: Uh-huh. In fact, when I heard the weather forecast, our navigator came out of the navigation booth and told us it was going to be the weather
that it was. I said, 20 people were going to die tonight, and 14 did.
AMANPOUR: Fourteen or 15, in fact, did. You're absolutely right. Did you ever think of not going through with the race? Was it ever --
TURNER: Dropping out? No way. I never liked dropping out with CNN.
AMANPOUR: So, you were determined to push on?
TURNER: Absolutely.
AMANPOUR: Was there ever a moment that you thought you wouldn't make it?
TURNER: No. But I didn't spend a whole lot of time thinking about not making it. I was trying to figure out how to keep going.
AMANPOUR: Were you afraid?
TURNER: No. I was concerned, but I wasn't afraid. If I'd have been afraid, I'd have dropped out. There was no penalty for dropping out.
AMANPOUR: Except you wouldn't have won.
TURNER: Right.
AMANPOUR: Were you more concerned with winning than dying?
TURNER: That's what it said in the book. Absolutely.
AMANPOUR: And CNN was also a major challenge. I mean, it wasn't an easy thing to start, right? It was the --
TURNER: No. everybody -- just about everybody that had an opinion didn't think we could do it. And what did you say to them? What did you say to
that? Take a look at it. In retrospect, now you can see that we did do it, obviously. And it was a huge success. Huge.
AMANPOUR: How did you convince them? And did you ever feel that if all these experts are telling me I can't do it, well, maybe there's something
to it?
TURNER: Didn't bother me at all.
AMANPOUR: Were you trying to create a revolution with 24/7 news or were you just trying to find another brilliant business opportunity? What was
your motivating impulse?
TURNER: Both. Both. And I thought it through very carefully. That's what I did. I studied the situation and I knew what I was doing. At least I felt
like I knew what I was doing. And it turned out that I did.
AMANPOUR: And then after you created CNN in the United States, which already created a revolution, do you remember what it was like when you
were shut out, when CNN was shut out of the White House, for instance?
TURNER: It wasn't for very long. We sued the president.
AMANPOUR: You sued the president?
TURNER: And the government and the Supreme Court heard the story right quick and voted in our favor.
AMANPOUR: So, then CNN cameras could go and cover the White House like everybody else?
TURNER: Right. That's all we were asking. It's equal access.
AMANPOUR: You've said that of all the things you've done, and you've done a lot, that CNN is the business achievement of which you're the most proud.
TURNER: Yes.
AMANPOUR: Ten years later was the Gulf War, when CNN really exploded into the international consciousness, into the global --
TURNER: We were the only ones that were covering the war live from behind the lines.
AMANPOUR: Do you remember all the pushback you got from the president of the United States, from the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, from all these
people who called you up and said, Ted, get your people out of Baghdad?
TURNER: Well, the president didn't call me. He called Tom Johnson. But the word got to me.
AMANPOUR: Did you ever think of obeying those orders?
[18:20:00]
TURNER: I couldn't do it because it was too important. And I said, as long as we have people that volunteer to stay, and Peter Arnett volunteered.
AMANPOUR: And Bernie Shaw and John Holliman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BERNARD SHAW, FORMER CNN ANCHOR: Let's describe to our viewers what we're seeing. The skies over Baghdad have been illuminated. We're seeing bright
flashes going off all over the sky.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TURNER: Bernie really got caught there. He got out the next day. He was only there the first day.
AMANPOUR: But it's legendary what they did that night.
TURNER: Oh, yes. Yes, that was it.
AMANPOUR: And then everybody else took CNN.
TURNER: Right.
AMANPOUR: Fast forward all these years to now, there's a lot of politics that's involved, even in news coverage. And people can criticize. They can
say, well, were you on the side of the Iraqis? Why weren't you patriotic Americans? What were you doing in the enemy camp? Why were you behind enemy
lines? What do you say today to people who still ask that question? Not just about --
TURNER: They don't ask it.
AMANPOUR: Not just about this story --
TURNER: It's -- we changed the way things were done. It wasn't -- we weren't anti-American. We were just pro-truth.
AMANPOUR: And were you pro-truth when you took up the invitation from Fidel Castro decades ago to actually go to Cuba and see what this guy was
all about? What made you go there? Was that about --
TURNER: Curiosity. That's what makes us go everywhere. That's what people watch the news for. Because they're curious about what's going on.
AMANPOUR: Did you have an idea of Fidel Castro?
TURNER: Thought he was pretty colorful.
AMANPOUR: And did you change your opinion when you got --
TURNER: And he had a lot of courage to tackle the United States, you know, being so close to us.
AMANPOUR: Did you change your opinion at all when you got down there? I mean, your father was very strongly anti-communist like most Americans.
TURNER: I was too. You don't have to agree with somebody politically on everything to feel like they have, that they have worth.
AMANPOUR: And you also said, after this eye-opening trip to Cuba, I flew home with a whole new desire to understand more about other cultures and
political systems and to do what I could to increase communication and dialogue between nations.
TURNER: Yes. What's wrong with that?
AMANPOUR: Nothing. But it doesn't happen very much. And do you think people are still that committed to doing precisely that?
TURNER: Maybe not quite as committed as I was.
AMANPOUR: I mean, your whole ethos was about trying to build bridges between nations, especially with the Goodwill Games, when you tried to
build bridges between then Soviet Union and the United States.
TURNER: During the 20 years of the Goodwill Games, we never had better relations with Russia.
AMANPOUR: And just remind me, who was your guide then? Wasn't it the young Vladimir Putin?
TURNER: Yes, vice mayor of St. Petersburg. We had the games there. Forget what year it was, but it was when he was there.
AMANPOUR: And what was -- what did you think of him at that point?
TURNER: Seemed like a pretty capable, competent guy.
AMANPOUR: Does it surprise you that now that he's president, all these years later, there is real antipathy between him, Russia, and the United
States?
TURNER: It's terrible. I'm the guy that believes that we should learn to how to get along, particularly the countries that we cannot afford to get
into conflict with Russia, and because of their nuclear weapons, and China.
AMANPOUR: So, during this crisis between Russia and Ukraine, and the raid against the West, something that I thought was unthinkable happened.
President Putin has, one way or another, raised the specter of, quote/unquote," the nuclear option. And I certainly never thought in my
life, particularly after the Cold War, that this would be a possibility. And you, who've spent so much of your life trying to secure nuclear weapons
with the Nuclear Threat Initiative, can you believe that this is actually happening in 2015?
TURNER: It's hard to believe, but we're both, we're both guilty. The only thing that we can do is have total nuclear disarmament. Either we all have
nuclear weapons, or we all don't have them. And I'm in real favor of not having them. We should get rid of all of them, and sign a treaty that we'll
never mess with them again. We don't want to destroy the world. It's a very dangerous situation. Those bombs are so powerful, that just a few of them
will kill life on Earth. And we've got thousands of them. On air trigger alert.
[18:25:00]
AMANPOUR: Do you worry that there could be an accident?
TURNER: Yes. There have been numerous accidents, but fortunately, none have triggered an explosion yet. But it could happen at any time. Just look
at how we do with airline travel. We've worked so hard all over the world to make our planes safe from, and even with that, every month, one crashes
somewhere in the world.
And so, if that can happen with our airlines, it can sure happen with our nuclear weapons. We've got to get rid of them. It's just like having
dynamite in your basement. We ought to work on the things that make our lives better, not the things that make our lives worse. And weapons and
armies and aircraft carriers are just a waste of money and a waste of time. It's time to put war behind us. We've made enough progress to where we can
say goodbye to war and say hello to cooperation and working together.
AMANPOUR: Well, you can say that because you're 76 years old and you have been fighting for this.
TURNER: I've been saying it all my life too.
AMANPOUR: Precisely.
TURNER: I haven't changed. I was saying this 50 years ago.
AMANPOUR: What advice would you give to the young entrepreneurs of today who are wondering where to invest their energy, where to put their
creativity? You seized cable before cable was cool as the ad went. What would you say to people today? What is the most important area of business
endeavor?
TURNER: Where a chance to make a fortune. Energy. Clean renewable energy is the biggest single project because most of the people in the world don't
have clean renewable energy.
AMANPOUR: What would you say to the skeptics who say there may be some climate change going on but A, it's got nothing to do with us and B, trying
to fix it with alternative energy is just economically not viable. What would you say to them?
TURNER: I'd say I hate to say this but I think you're wrong.
AMANPOUR: I want to go back a little bit further. You went to Brown University to study the classics.
TURNER: No.
AMANPOUR: No.
TURNER: I went there because my father wanted me to go to an Ivy League school and I got in there.
AMANPOUR: Your father wanted you to go to an Ivy League school and you got in. That's where you went.
TURNER: I didn't plan to study the classics when I first went to Brown. I didn't know what I was going to study.
AMANPOUR: You did study the classics, right?
TURNER: I ended up going that way because it was inspirational for me.
AMANPOUR: In what way?
TURNER: Well, the grandiose plans of the classics. Horatius at the Bridge. Then step forward, Horatius, the captain of the gate. He said to every man
of woman born, death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better than facing fearful odds for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his
gods? Hew down the bridge, Sir Council, with all the speed ye may. I, with but two beside me, will hold the foe in play. On yon narrow span a thousand
might well be stopped by three. Now, who will stand on either hand guard the bridge with me? I like that.
AMANPOUR: I like that too.
TURNER: I signed up for classics. I said, here I am. Hew down the bridge.
AMANPOUR: This letter from your dad when you declared classics your major, he said, my dear son, I'm appalled --
TURNER: I know.
AMANPOUR: -- even horrified that you've adopted classics as a major.
TURNER: I know.
AMANPOUR: As a matter of fact, I almost puked.
TURNER: On the way home today.
AMANPOUR: You remember the letter. I think --
TURNER: Of course, I remember.
AMANPOUR: -- you're rapidly becoming a?
TURNER: An asshole.
AMANPOUR: No, it was a jackass.
TURNER: Damn it, I sent you there.
AMANPOUR: What did you think when you got that letter from your own dad?
TURNER: I was more amused than anything because I saw the value in classics.
AMANPOUR: But what would have happened had you stuck with the classics? Would there have been a CNN? Would there have been a nuclear threat
initiative? Would there have been a Goodwill Games?
TURNER: I did stick with the classics. I stuck with classics and they were with me. I was inspired to stand at that bridge.
AMANPOUR: Can you do Shakespeare?
TURNER: A little bit.
AMANPOUR: Do you have anything you'd like to declaim?
[18:30:00]
TURNER: This is, I think, Richard III. Anyways, one of the Richards. Oh, my honor is my life. We live in one. Take honor from me. And my life is
done. Then pray, my liege. My honor, let me try. For that I live. For that will I die. And I live with that. There's not one blemish on my honor in my
entire 76-year career. Not once. How many times have you heard protesters saying, get rid of Turner's corruption? Never paid anybody off. Never.
And in the news business, there were times when putting a little money on the table would get you some access that you wouldn't get otherwise. It's
very easy to slip into corruption. Very easy. But I resisted it all the way along, not one time.
AMANPOUR: What do you most want to be remembered for?
TURNER: The good things I've done.
AMANPOUR: What's your proudest achievement?
TURNER: My family first and outside my family, CNN.
AMANPOUR: And what advice would you have for any young person who came to say, Ted, you've done it all? What can you tell me?
TURNER: Clean energy.
AMANPOUR: Ted Turner, thank you very much.
TURNER: You're quite welcome.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." I'm Jim Sciutto. And here are the international headlines we're watching today.
Ted Turner the maverick businessman founder of CNN passed away today at the age of 87. He revolutionized television news by creating the first 24-hour
news network.
[18:35:00]
His businesses also included sports teams several other cable channels. After selling them. Turner devoted himself to philanthropy and
environmental causes.
The cruise ship hit by a deadly outbreak of the Hantavirus is now headed for Spain's Canary Islands after it was anchored off Cape Verde for the
last several days. The Spanish government says the MV Honduras you see it there will be allowed to dock. At the island of Tenerife. The leader of the
Canary Islands says he is opposed to that. Though he will not refuse to receive the vessel.
Returning now to our top story. The U.S. and Iran reportedly moving closer to an agreement to end the war, that according to a source in the region
speaking CNN. Trump officials are warning that previous talks fell apart at the last minute. Though Trump has said repeatedly Iran wants to make a
deal. If an agreement does happen. It will apparently be summarized in a one-page memo. Iran says it's still reviewing the U.S. proposal.
Joining me now to discuss next steps Florida Republican Congressman Carlos Gimenez. Congressman thanks so much for taking the time.
REP. CARLOS GIMENEZ (R-FL), U.S. HOUSE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: My pleasure.
SCIUTTO: So, if the war ends today and to some degree the administration's already declaring the war over. From your view, was it worth it? Did the
U.S. win?
GIMENEZ: It depends on what we get on negotiations. The war may be over, but we still have actions there we have blockaded Iran, which I think is a
very effective strategy to bring them to the negotiating table. We're slowly strangling them economically.
And so, this not over yet. The war may be over, the shooting maybe over, the kinetic part of it may be over. And by the way it may start at any
time. But we need to leave Iran, leave the area with a couple of things. We need to make sure that we have the nuclear material that's enriched to 60
percent, we need to get that out of there. We need make sure that Iran cannot now or ever possess a nuclear device, that means that we have to
have inspections, a very robust inspection program of when we inspect that at our time when we want to, how we want to, however we want to.
And then, also, that the Straits of Hormuz will never again be used as a point -- a choke point for Iran. And that they can no longer, you know,
have acts of piracy against those vessels that are traveling and never ever impose a toll on those vessels that are traveling through international
waters. That's the minimum that we need in order to withdraw our forces from Iran.
SCIUTTO: OK. How do you get to that point though? Because one thing that Iran has established, though it's been weakened certainly militarily, is
that it can influence traffic through the Strait even up to and against the largest military in the world, right? I mean, it lost a lot of assets but
it doesn't take a lot of assets to spook vessels going through. So, how do you get to a reliable commitment that it won't do it again? I mean, if
that's their leverage.
GIMENEZ: Well, the leverage that we have is that at any time we can impose a blockade on them and basically strangle them economically. And that's
what we have to say. Hey, if you want to violate this agreement, we will just blockade you again, you won't be able to sell your oil. And
eventually, you're going to run out of cash. That's what's happening also to them right now.
And by the way, once we blockade their oil, once all of their storage tanks are filled up and they have to start shutting down their oil fields, and
when you put them back up they don't produce the same as they are right now. So, that's a really heavy price to pay.
So, we have some -- we have most of the cards on our side. They have a couple of cards on their side. Right now, they don't have a Navy, they have
small ships, et cetera, that can be easily -- eventually easily intercepted and sunk if they pose a threat to the Straits and at any time, again, we
can impose that blockade any time we want if they violate the terms of the agreement.
Look, I don't trust Iran. And so, this thing about, you know, trust and verify, no, I don't trust and verify. I don't trust, but I do verify. And
so, that's what we need to get to. So, we'll see what happens with these talks if in fact they're even going to happen.
SCIUTTO: Yes, it's fair question. Because, obviously, other points that they have fallen through. When you look at the outlines of what the U.S. is
proposing here and we don't know what Iran will accept on what timeline, getting as you say the enriched uranium out of the country, some sort of
timeline for a ban on enrichment, perhaps 10 years perhaps 20 years inspections. You're beginning to sound a lot like the JCPOA. So, I wonder -
-
[18:40:00]
GIMENEZ: No, no, no. Oh, no, no, no. Nowhere close to that because. Because the inspection protocol was not -- at our time, when we chose to,
we'd go anywhere we want without any advance warning. That's what I'm talking about, a robust inspection program. Not something, oh, by the way,
we may be coming there in three months, OK? You can put your stuff over there because we'll be there in three months. That's not an inspection
program that I'm talking about, and certainly not the one that President Trump is talking about.
And so, no, it doesn't sound anything like that. And it has to be very robust because, again, I don't trust, but we have to verify. And in order
to get to that point, you have to have a very robust inspection program that they can never, ever hide or have or restart a weapons program.
By the way, one of the things that you said about --
SCIUTTO: But that's not --
GIMENEZ: -- you know, restarting one in 10 years or 20 years, for me, that's a non-starter. No, you can never restart a nuclear weapons program
as far as I'm concerned.
SCIUTTO: Well, it's -- and that's a fair point, and it's a fair criticism, but it's not clear that that's something that the administration is
demanding. So, I'm just asking the question, what was gained by pulling out of that deal if Iran was then able to build this massive stockpile of
highly enriched uranium? And of course, the U.S. goes to war twice there, right? I mean, it's different --
GIMENEZ: Yes. Well, they were going to that --
SCIUTTO: -- but it's not dramatically different.
GIMENEZ: They're going to do that anyway under that deal. Absolutely. Under that deal, they were going to be able to enrich uranium. OK. Under
that deal, the deal that we pulled out of. So, we're no worse off than we were when pulling it out. And it was a really bad deal.
And so, the way to get to Iran is, A, well, they have seen us militarily. We can defeat them anytime we want. And now, we put a stranglehold on their
economy through the blockade. We need to keep that up. But there's another thing that I would like to see, and maybe the president will do this, maybe
he won't.
Every day that goes by we add something else to what we want. OK. It's not the other way around. So, Iran is really good at stalling and then hoping
that, you know, we kind of weaken and back away. I play the game the other way. Every day that you don't play with U.S., it's going to get worse for
you and it's going to get worse for you. And it's going to get worse for you until they finally break, because that's what we need to do to this
regime who's been saying that they want death to America for 47 years.
For me, the only thing that I really want is this regime to go away and then we won't have to worry about Iran in the future. And my kids and my
grandchildren won't have to worry about Iran either. That's really what I'm trying to get to.
SCIUTTO: The president at times mentioned regime change. I mean, he's claimed that regime change has taken place. I speak to Israeli officials
who do not believe that to be true.
GIMENEZ: Right.
SCIUTTO: Was that a failure of this war not to achieve regime change?
GIMENEZ: Well, let's -- look, I said this, the war may be over, but this conflict's not over. OK. And so, you know, again, we have the third
iteration of the regime, right? And so, the two or three layers of that regime have been -- are not there anymore. And now, we're dealing with a
third or fourth layer of it. So, you can say, yes, it's a different regime, but really, it's the same regime that we've been dealing with the last 47
years. OK.
So, yes, I would love to see the regime change in Iran because then that solves the problem once and for all, when we have a free democratic Iran,
which is what the people of Iran want, by the way, they don't want this -- what they're under right now. And also, the world needs a free and
democratic Iran that changes the entire world order when the regime changes.
Now, lacking that, if we can't get to that, then those things that I talked about before should be the minimum that we require in order to withdraw our
forces. Because the one thing, the number one thing is we cannot have a nuclear armed Iran. If we had a nuclear armed Iran, they can impose their
piracy and impose their tolls any time they wanted to on the Straits of Hormuz and basically hold the entire world economy hostage. That is a non-
starter.
SCIUTTO: Congressman Carlos Gimenez, we appreciate you joining the program again.
GIMENEZ: It's my pleasure.
SCIUTTO: Well, the state of the U.S. China relationship ahead of president Trump's visit to Beijing. I'm going to speak to a business executive who
just returned from meetings in China. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:45:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back. In today's Business Breakout, U.S. stocks rose to yet more records Wednesday on solid earnings hopes for a deal to end the
war with Iran. Oil tumbled with Brent Crude down nearly 8 percent. However, average U.S. gas prices rose to more than $4.50 a gallon. Diesel prices,
they're close to record highs. And the monthly fuel bill for major U.S. airlines rose 56 percent from February to March. That's why those fares are
going up.
President Donald Trump travels to Beijing next week for talks with the Chinese leader, Xi Jinping. The trip, which he rescheduled because of the
Iran War, it comes as China continues its efforts to end the conflict. China's foreign minister met in Beijing with his Iranian counterpart today.
China reiterated its calls for a peaceful solution to the war, which have now reduced Iranian oil deliveries to China. China also backed Iran being
allowed to continue having a nuclear energy program.
Joining me now, Myron Brilliant, senior counselor at DGA-Albright Stonebridge, just back from meetings in Beijing, including with senior
Chinese officials. Myron, good to have you.
MYRON BRILLIANT, SENIOR COUNSELOR, DGA-ALBRIGHT STONEBRIDGE GROUP AND FORMER EXECUTIVE VP AND HEAD OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS, U.S. CHAMBER OF
COMMERCE: Good to be with you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: So, you've got a big summit coming up. What did you hear from Chinese officials about their expectations for the Xi meeting with Trump?
BRILLIANT: Well, in Beijing, it's clear that they think they've cracked the code on Trump. They think they understand how to deal with Trump. They
see him as an asset in the sense that we have a somewhat hawkish Washington when it comes to U.S.-China relations, but they see Trump as someone who
wants to cut a deal.
So, they're in the mood to cut a deal. It's not going to be a big deal, but they want to get some things done. What I also heard, though, from the
officials is that, look, we're going to have high competition. We have distrust at a pretty high level in the relationship. But can we find
grounds, you know, limited grounds for cooperation?
SCIUTTO: Understood. Now, when you say cut a deal, is that just a continuation of the trade truce or some fundamental change in the
relationship?
BRILLIANT: Well, I think there are a couple of aspects, right? One is, can each side put some guardrails around tariffs, right? So, the U.S. is
threatening an action in July, you know, around overcapacity. So, a 301 action. So, let's see what they do on that front. Do they agree to some
kind of border trade proposition? Two, I think they will agree to buy more soybeans and American beef and Boeing airplanes. All good.
SCIUTTO: They always make those promises.
BRILLIANT: They make those promises.
SCIUTTO: But don't necessarily deliver.
BRILLIANT: They commit to half of it.
SCIUTTO: Yes, yes.
BRILLIANT: And, you know, the question is execution.
SCIUTTO: Right.
BRILLIANT: But what China wants is some guardrails on export controls. The center of the conversations I had with them were on two topics, export
controls and A.I. I don't think this administration, who I've talked to since I've been back, wants to cut a deal on export controls. So, we'll
have to see if something's done to that. I mean, we do want to sell chips into China, but we don't want to sell high-end chips.
[18:50:00]
On A.I. think there is opportunity here on both sides. So, there's intense competition, but I think each side is willing to do something in terms of a
dialogue on it. You know, at the height of the Soviet Union empire, so to speak, the United States and China and Soviet Union figured out how to
continue to have a hotline.
SCIUTTO: Right.
BRILLIANT: So, can we have some kind of rapid response mechanism? Can we have some red lines? There's some possibilities here that China is open to.
SCIUTTO: Does China see the war as a U.S. victory or a loss?
BRILLIANT: The war --
SCIUTTO: In Iran.
BRILLIANT: I think China sees this as a weakening of U.S. position around the world. They see it as an opportunity to expand global influence.
SCIUTTO: Why?
BRILLIANT: I think they got to be careful not to be too confident and overplay their hand because they think that the United States overplayed
its hand and they're not going to get much out of this. We'll have to see what deal was created between the administration and the Iranian officials.
We don't know what is in the details yet.
But I think for China, calmer waters is still in their interest because they don't want to see a global recession. They want to see the Straits
open. They depend still on oil and gas and other things coming out of there, fertilizer. So, for them, a ceasefire is now in their interest.
SCIUTTO: And in terms of their view of America under Trump, because you've heard for some time that they see Trump as weakening American power around
the world and accelerating China's rise above the U.S.
BRILLIANT: Yes, I think that's a mistake for China because, you know, maybe our hand has gotten weaker, maybe we've overextended ourselves in
places, but the alternative is not China's model, right? I think a lot of countries will say to you, government officials from other countries, look,
we're hedging our bets, but we may go a third way, right? We've heard that from the Canadian prime minister. We've heard that from European officials.
We're going to do business in China. We're going to do business in the United States. We're not going to pick winners in this.
SCIUTTO: Myron Brilliant, good to get the view from Beijing. Thank you.
BRILLIANT: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: And we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Breaking news. A court has ordered the release of Jeffrey Epstein's alleged suicide note. I want to go to CNN's Katelyn Polantz,
who's been covering. Did we know this existed? What led to this decision now?
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the New York Times discovered that this reported suicide note from Jeffrey Epstein
existed not too long ago. They had asked a judge at the end of April to make this note public.
Now, Jim, this wasn't a note that was in the bigger files that the Justice Department was releasing millions of documents over the past several months
under the Epstein Transparency Act. This was a document that had been gathered from the cell of Jeffrey Epstein by a cellmate he shared in 2019.
So, this cellmate, that was a man who was a former police officer convicted of quadruple murder and serving life sentences. This cellmate had found
this reported suicide note of Jeffrey Epstein in July of 2019, when Epstein made an apparent suicide attempt that did not result in his death. And then
a few weeks later, killed himself.
[18:55:00]
So, this note, what it says, and this is very hard to decipher, Jim, because the writing of this is very hard to read. But from what we can
gather, it says, they investigated me for a month, found nothing. So, 15- year-old charges resurrected. It is a treat to be able to choose one's time to say goodbye. What you want me to do? Burst out crying. No fun, not worth
it.
That has not been authenticated, but this is the original handwritten note that was obtained by that cellmate of Jeffrey Epstein's lawyers, and that
has now been made public by a federal court in New York in this moment of transparency around Jeffrey Epstein, his crimes, his death, something that
we had not even really known existed until just a few weeks ago. Jim.
SCIUTTO: Well, a remarkable moment in this ongoing investigation and story. Katelyn Polantz, thanks so much for updating us.
And thanks so much to all of you for joining us. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. You've been watching "The Brief." Please do stay with CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:00:00]
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