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The Brief with Jim Sciutto
CNN International: U.S. Military Says Iran Targeted its Warships; U.S. Military Says it Intercepted Unprovoked Iranian Attacks; Former Israeli military Intelligence Chief Says Israel Sees War as Having Weakened Iran; Health Officials Race to Contain Hantavirus Outbreak; U.S. Trade Court Rules Against Trump's 10 Percent Global Tariffs; Tennessee Republicans Approve Map Carving Up Majority-Black U.S. House District; BTS in Mexico. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired May 07, 2026 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR, "THE BRIEF": Hello, and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington, and
you're watching "The Brief."
Just ahead this hour, the U.S. military says it has responded in self- defense after Iran attacked its warships in the Strait of Hormuz. The World Health Organization says that five cases of Hantavirus have now been
confirmed following that outbreak on a cruise ship. It warns more may follow. And a massive crowd welcomes the K-pop superstars BTS to Mexico
City ahead of their concerts there.
We do begin with breaking news. Fighting has erupted again in the Strait of Hormuz. Iran and the U.S. trading blame for the crossfire with a fragile
ceasefire and peace talks hanging in the balance. Iranian state media reports explosions were heard near Qeshm Island the port city of Bandar
Abbas.
U.S. Central Command says that U.S. forces intercepted what it calls unprovoked Iranian attacks on several U.S. warships and then responded in
self-defense. This took place as U.S. Navy guided missile destroyers were transiting the Strait. The Central Command says that no U.S. warships were
struck. The Iranian military has accused the U.S. of violating the truce with attacks on Iranian ships. This comes as the U.S. awaited a response
from Tehran to a proposal to end the war.
Joining me now, retired U.S. Army Major General Randy Manner, to discuss the military side of this. I mean, you have Iran firing at several U.S.
warships. The U.S. intercepted those attacks and responded striking what it says were Iranian military targets. Does that constitute an obvious
ceasefire violation? I mean, the fire clearly hasn't ceased.
MAJ. GEN. RANDY MANNER, U.S. ARMY (RET.): So, if it is indeed as it has been described, then I would not regard this as a violation of the
ceasefire because it was defensive measures. So, if the Iranians had fired on the U.S. Navy ships, then the U.S. Navy has every right to protect
itself. So, if that is indeed what occurred, then I would not regard this as a breach of the ceasefire.
What I -- what all the viewers should be much more concerned about is the fact that Saudi Arabia has now denied the use of U.S. air bases in Saudi
Arabia to be able to do the safe transit of freighters through the Strait. That is far more significant and would have a far greater impact because it
takes a huge number of weapons systems to provide that dome of capability. And so that's a very important point right there.
SCIUTTO: I understand the U.S. would have a case to say this was a response to an Iranian attack, but to an Iranian attack. So, at least the
Iranian attack, I imagine, violates the ceasefire. I only ask because a great deal is being invested in the ceasefire to create conditions for
negotiations. But if you have both sides firing missiles at each other, it's hard to see how that meets the definition of a ceasefire.
MANNER: I do agree that it seems a little bit backwards because if there are missiles firing, that certainly sounds like it's a breach of the
ceasefire. Not knowing all the details of, quite frankly, who shot first, I probably couldn't say directly. On the other hand, remember that the
Iranians have said publicly that they control the Strait. The U.S. disputes that. And if the Iranians chose to, quote/unquote, "enforce" their part of
the deal, and that it was a defensive measure, they might say that. And, of course, the U.S. response is a defensive measure as well.
I hope that both sides would not escalate this, and I don't believe that they will. I think it's something that was unfortunate. And I think we're -
- I think there's hope in that positive things will happen in the Middle East
[18:05:00]
SCIUTTO: Now, let me ask you this, though, from a purely military perspective. Who does control the Strait right now? Because, you know, Iran
at least has a capability to still strike shipping there. I mean, they were able to fire missiles at least, even at U.S. warships. So, imagine if
you're a commercial warship transiting. And the U.S. response would require a fair military deployment, would it not, over time to defend against those
attacks. So, from a military perspective, who does have the upper hand? Who controls the Strait?
MANNER: From a military point of view, the Iranians absolutely, positively have the upper hand. The reason they have the upper hand is not necessarily
because of their military. It's because of the geography. If you look at that terrain around the Strait, the Iranians own one half of all of it,
right around it. And it means that the Iranians by geography have the upper hand.
The U.S. can transit the Strait, but it's going to require a lot of military assets to be able to do so safely. So, this is something which
just has to be negotiated toward the objective of the Iranians not enriching uranium and not developing a nuclear weapon. That is the only
goal this administration has said that makes complete sense from all sides within the United States.
SCIUTTO: General Randy Manner, appreciate you joining.
MANNER: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: All right. joining us now to discuss the prospects for ongoing negotiations, Mara Rudman, former Deputy Middle East Envoy and Deputy
National Security Adviser to both Presidents Clinton and Obama. Mara, thanks so much for joining.
MARA RUDMAN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, VITAL CENTER NETWORK, FORMER U.S. DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER AND FORMER U.S. DEPUTY MIDDLE EAST ENVOY: Thanks
for having me, Jim.
SCIUTTO: So, I mean, you got the U.S. and Iran firing at each other right now with an uncertain sense of where negotiations stand, the U.S. proposal,
the Iranians reviewing that proposal, and President Trump apparently under time pressure here because he doesn't want the war going on when he goes to
China next week. What is your view of the prospects for an agreement at this point, given all those circumstances?
RUDMAN: Well, it may depend, Jim, on how you define an agreement. Is there the ability to get some sort of temporary pause in place? And, in fact,
what has been reported to be kind of a one-page set of points that's out there now, that was carried by Pakistan to the Iranians, really just talks
about a pause. It's give us 30 days, have Strait of Hormuz traffic, free flow of navigation there, and we'll spend the next 30 days bearing down on
the fine points. So, that is a pause. I still think that would be positive from where we are.
But it's worth taking a step back and considering at some point where we would have been if President Trump had not, in his first term, gotten out
of the joint comprehensive plan and where we would be now, particularly with respect to the nuclear threat that Iran posed.
SCIUTTO: Yes. I mean, assuming that deal held, Iran would not have several hundred kilograms of highly enriched uranium at this point. I mean, I
suppose looking forward, a one-page memorandum is not a detailed agreement, certainly not on nuclear issues, even if it's just to give you the time to
discuss those issues.
But what would the prospects be for such a larger deal at this point? I mean, do you see Iran, even a weakened Iran, as willing to make the kind of
concessions that President Trump is demanding here, including an end to all enrichment inside Iranian territory?
RUDMAN: Listen, for any negotiation, including and especially with people with whom you have a strong difference of viewpoints, you've got to
understand what it's going to take for the other side to get on board. And among my biggest concerns is I think that President Trump and his team have
continually shown a real lack of understanding of what they're facing on the other side.
SCIUTTO: How about credibility, right? Because if you're Iran here -- and by the way, Iran has issues with its own credibility, but I'm just, for a
moment, looking from their perspective, if you're Iran here, you made a deal with the Obama administration, the next president tore it up. What
confidence would you have that any deal agreement made with the Trump administration would be a lasting one?
RUDMAN: Probably pretty limited confidence. But what you would be looking at, presumably, is what is in your interest. Iran, at some point, and
there's differing views on how soon, the Iranian regime wants to be able themselves to have a greater ability to get stuff, to get their oil out and
get tankers in, in the Strait of Hormuz.
They may, at some point, decide they care about their civilian population, probably not until they feel like there's a threat, a greater threat posed
to the regime than is the case now. But they have different factors to consider and whether it's worth finding a way to get out of the box that
they are in. The United States is in a different kind of box.
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But the Trump team needs to be able to think that way and propose things that way, and match language not to sound like the United States is giving
up, but to recognize that to get out of, to get to any deal, both sides need to feel like they're getting something.
SCIUTTO: Well, we'll see. We'll see even to get to that 30-day agreement for talks to continue. Mara Rudman, thanks so much for joining.
RUDMAN: Thanks. Thanks for having me.
SCIUTTO: So, what is Israel's view of the war, the results of the war, and these negotiations? A short time ago I spoke with the former chief of the
country's military intelligence, retired Major General Amos Yadlin, now the president of MIND Israel, a non-profit focused on national security policy.
Have a listen to our conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: When the two sides agreed to a ceasefire, you said that Israel's reaction was neither euphoria nor depression about the outcome, and I
wonder is that still your view of the outcome of the war?
MAJ. GEN. AMOS YADLIN (RET.), FORMER CHIEF OF ISRAELI MILITARY INTELLIGENCE AND PRESIDENT, MIND ISRAEL: Yes, I think on the positive side, we have to
ask ourselves whether Iran's capability to inflict damage, to project little power, little attack on Israel and the area and the American forces
was reduced dramatically, the answer is yes. And when you ask yourself whether this regime that was on the verge of economic collapse is now even
weaker, the answer is positive.
However, anybody who thought that there will be a total victory, total victory does not exist anymore. I think somebody thought that he will have
total victory in Gaza, big mistake. What you have to achieve is enough, let's put it as the president put it, enough cards to make sure that the
agreement or the situation after the military move will be a sufficient diplomatic achievement or a geostrategic change that make Israel safer,
make the Middle East safer from Iran, and the influence of the U.S., vis-a- vis its global competitor will be better.
SCIUTTO: OK. Now, there's some reporting that Israeli officials are concerned that the Trump administration will make some last-minute
concessions. Are you confident that this agreement, if they do reach an agreement, will meet that standard you just described?
YADLIN: I hope so. And when there are two sides that you are not sure what the decision makers will do. We know who is the decision maker in
Washington, but his attitudes are changing from time to time, sometimes from hour to hour. And we don't know who is the decision maker in Tehran,
because when the foreign minister or even the president come with a reasonable agreement, immediately after that the IRGC are vetoing it.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
YADLIN: So, we will have to wait and see. I think, and if you speak about agreement, there are agreements that are unacceptable. If Iran will
continue to be a threat by having the possibility to have a wide ballistic missile plane or attacking the Emirates with their drones or a nuclear
program, this is a bad deal that I prefer that will not be there.
Even a deal that will give this regime the life-saving money that they need is a betrayal of the brave Iranians that went to the street.
SCIUTTO: Yes, yes. I mean, there were a lot of promises made to them that haven't come through. If Israel is not satisfied with the deal, would it
reserve the right to strike Iran unilaterally?
YADLIN: Israel should have two things. First, a parallel deal with the U.S. that will define what are the red lines. Let's say that we agree with
the U.S. that if the Iranians are violating the deal, if they go back to enrichment, if they go back to a massive production of ballistic missiles,
which is not easy for them because we have destroyed all their defense industrial base to produce ballistic missiles, drones, and nuclear.
But let's say that they will do it. We have to agree with the U.S. that this is a red line. And sometimes Israel independently can go to stop an
Iranian attempt to have a nuclear bomb.
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SCIUTTO: Right. Now, would you do that over U.S. objections if the President were to say the war is over?
YADLIN: Israel is an independent country. As you remember, the U.S. went to this war by the president of the United States decision. Israel joined
because we thought that it's a just war. But Israel can go to a war as we did in the summer of 2025.
Once again, a very defined red line that really endangers Israel's existence. Because maybe for you it was a war of choice. For us, it was a
war of necessity. We cannot allow this regime that kill his own people, 35,000, maybe 42,000. They easily will kill us, will destroy us with
nuclear weapon or with 8,000 ballistic missiles.
SCIUTTO: Right.
YADLIN: And look what they have done to the UAE, to the Saudis, to the Kuwaitis, even to the Qataris, which are their best friend. So, this is a
very dangerous regime. And Israel cannot allow somebody who is calling death to Israel, by the way, death to America as well, but death to Israel
to have the weapon that will enable them to inflict death on Israel.
SCIUTTO: If I can, before we go, just to ask about the status of the war in Lebanon. Because, of course, the strikes continue and you had this
strike in Beirut just in the last couple of days. Is it a ceasefire in name only there?
YADLIN: In a way, it -- what is important here is the connection to Iran. This ceasefire was done because the president have asked Israel to let him
more lee room to negotiate with Iran and it was Iranian request. But I will take it the other way around. If the Iranian regime will be weakened or
will be removed, Hezbollah is gone. So, we have to concentrate on the main target.
The fact that Hezbollah again attack Israel, as they did on the 8th of October, 2023, give us an opportunity to weaken it even more. But once
again, not a total victory, not a disappearing of Hezbollah. A military attack, a military move has to accomplish with a diplomatic move.
And here is a huge opportunity. We have the president of Lebanon, the prime minister of Lebanon, thinking about the need to remove Hezbollah from being
a military force in Lebanon. So, we have a partner here. And if you do it in a smart way, militarily and politically, the chance that Lebanon will
join Egypt and Jordan as a neighboring country with normalization and peace is not to be underestimated.
SCIUTTO: Amos Yadlin, thanks so much for joining.
YADLIN: Thank you. It's always a pleasure being on your program.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Well, health authorities across the globe are now racing to trace and, if need be, contain an outbreak of the Hantavirus. The World Health
Organization confirms five infections, all from people connected to a cruise ship, the MV Hondius. Three people have died since that vessel left
Argentina last month. The ship is now set to arrive in Spain's Canary Islands, where passengers hope to be able to get back and fly to their home
countries.
Melissa Bell has been following the story from Paris. I suppose the big question now, right, is does this extend beyond that ship? And I know
French health authorities are monitoring several people who may have come into contact with a confirmed case. What are they finding? Have there been
any ripples beyond the ship at this point?
MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. The eight cases or people that have been identified as worth watching here in
France were people who were on that flight. I think one of the issues here tonight and the reason that you're hearing about this spread this evening,
Jim, is that those 30-something people left Saint Helena before the virus had been identified to fly home.
And so, you're seeing this contact tracing and these cases pop up from the United States to Singapore through France. The eight people here in France
that have been identified and are now being quarantined are people who were on the flight with one of the women who flew from Saint Helena to South
Africa, the wife of the first man who died, who then died when she arrived in South Africa.
And I think that is why you're seeing all of this at this particular moment. This is, after all, a virus that has a six- to eight-week
incubation period, and very little was known about it even after that first man had died on the ship.
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Still, the World Health Organization being tonight very reassuring about what comes next.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BELL (voice-over): After three days docked off the coast of Cape Verde, the MV Hodius is on its way to the Canary Islands, with the World Health
Organization saying that it does not expect a widespread outbreak.
DR. MARIA VAN KERKHOVE, EPIDEMIC AND PANDEMIC THREAT MANAGEMENT, WHO: This is not SARS-CoV-2, this is not the start of a COVID pandemic. This is an
outbreak that we see on a ship.
BELL (voice-over): The first passenger died some 10 days after the ship left Argentina. The captain's announcement filmed by one of the passengers
on April 12th.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning everybody. This is my sad duty to inform you that one of our passengers suddenly passed away last night.
BELL (voice-over): Only later would the virus be identified according to oceanwide expeditions which operates the ship. At the time of the
announcement there was no evidence of a virus or contagion present on the vessel. The case was believed to be isolated following medical review. The
operator adding that as of Wednesday the man was not confirmed to have been infected with Hantavirus.
The wife of the man who died was one of at least 30 passengers to disembark at St. Helena, traveling on to South Africa where she collapsed and later
died after she was taken to hospital. Several more passengers were evacuated from the ship whilst it was docked off of Cape Verde. Two are now
being treated in the Netherlands and a third in Germany after a convoy accompanied them to hospital.
The ship is now on its way to Tenerife where it is expected to arrive on Sunday and where dock workers have threatened to strike.
JOANA BATISTA, TENERIFE PORT WORKERS UNION REPRESENTATIVE (through translator): Right now, the workers are really worried because they
basically haven't been given any information at all. They haven't been told anything about what safety measures are going to be put in place.
BELL (voice-over): But for those on board of what became the cruise from hell, the end may finally be in sight.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BELL (on camera): What Spanish authorities are saying tonight, Jim, is that every precaution will be taken. The ship will be taken away -- kept
away from the shore in Tenerife. The passengers will be offloaded, tested then taken on to their home countries. There will be, say Spanish
authorities, no contact cases and I think that's the big difference from when you had a big disembarkation in Saint Helena before the virus was
known and what we're going to have by midday Sunday by the time the ship arrives in the Canary Islands.
It is now known the World Health Organization is putting things in place, the Spanish authorities are as well, in order to ensure that there are no
more contact cases. Jim.
SCIUTTO: We know they're looking carefully. Melissa Bell, thanks so much. Still ahead, another big tariff defeat for the Trump administration in
court. The U.S. Court of International Trade has just ruled against President Trump's new global 10 percent tariffs. Richard Quest will break
it all down for us next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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SCIUTTO: Welcome back. In today's Business Breakout, U.S. stocks fell from record highs as investors monitored developments from the Middle East. That
made for a volatile day in the energy markets. In the end, Brent Crude settled 1 percent lower, but U.S. gas prices continued to rise. The average
price of regular stands at $4.55 a gallon, up two cents since Wednesday. According to a new NPR PBS News Marist poll, eight in 10 Americans say gas
prices are causing some financial strain to them. A third of them say it is a major hardship.
And we are following a breaking economic story this hour. The U.S. Court of International Trade says that the 10 percent global tariffs President Trump
announced back in February after the Supreme Court rejected his other tariffs are themselves illegal. The court ruled in favor of small
businesses that had challenged the tariffs.
Joining us now to discuss the consequences of all this, Richard Quest. So, the Supreme Court rejects Trump's authority to impose tariffs on anybody
and anything to whatever degree he wants under national security justifications. So, he goes to a second authority here and now the
International Court of Trade says nope, can't do that either. Major defeat?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE AND CNN ANCHOR, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS: Yes, because what he did was he found another part of the law
from the 1970s, one that the Section 122 that deals with balance of payments, where he's allowed -- the president is delegated authority to put
a tariff up to 15 percent in certain circumstances. And what the International Court to court the trade said is this is not valid. You can't
use that law. It doesn't meet the definition for what you're trying to do.
So, in the same way that the first round when he tried to use the emergency economic law that failed the second time, it's now no doubt they'll appeal
this. But it does seem as if the International Court of Trade has said, look, there are various ways you can do tariffs. This is not one of them
for the purposes that you wanted to do.
And it's immediate. So, as of now, the 10 percent tariff goes away. And you can report -- you can apply to have refunds if you've paid that global
tariff of 10 percent.
SCIUTTO: We should be in the refund business, by the way, Richard. This happens notably, just a few days before President Trump goes to Beijing. I
imagine this news is catnip to Chinese leaders further weakening Trump's ability to apply tariffs to them.
QUEST: I think so. I think it's just a general example of how the tariff policy is politically driven, philosophically weak, and if you like,
legally dubious. And time and again, they've got the way to do these tariffs is either to get congressional authority to do them or to use
Section 322, which is the what Section 301, which is where you say a particular industry is being harmed. What you can't do that the president
has never been given power just to politically say, I think there should be a general tariff that rests with Congress.
And if you read this judgment, all 53 pages of it, it's quite clear that power was given to Congress in the Constitution. It was delegated to the
president, but he can't just use it in some sort of arbitrary fashion as he's chosen to do so.
SCIUTTO: That's just a very basic question. It's a tough one, given we don't have much time.
QUEST: Sure.
SCIUTTO: But have tariffs accomplished any of the things Trump said that they would accomplish?
QUEST: No. Next.
SCIUTTO: OK. We'll keep up the conversation. Richard Quest, thanks so much. Checking now some of today's other business headlines. Shares of
appliance maker Whirlpool plunged 12 percent Thursday after it cut its full year profit outlook in half. Whirlpool also suspending its quarterly
dividend. The company says its experiencing a, quote, "recession level industry decline" as Americans are putting off big ticket purchases. That's
a big economic indicator. Companies such as Whirlpool forced to cut prices to boost sales, which of course is squeezing margins.
McDonald's is also warning of the war's economic effects. The fast-food giant reported stronger than expected earnings Thursday, but a key sales
metric fell short of expectations as consumers, again, pull back on spending.
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Chains like Shake Shack and Domino's also posted weaker sales growth this earnings season due to the war's inflationary impact.
Shell is the latest major oil firm to report strong quarterly results as the price of crude oil spikes higher. Imagine that. The U.K.-based company
says profits hit their highest levels in two years. It is also raising its dividend by 5 percent. Oil giants BP and French-based Total Energies also
posted robust profits this earnings season. That has increased calls in many European countries for a windfall tax on oil profits.
Coming up after the break, Democrats link arms in Tennessee to protest Republican efforts to carve up the electoral map to their advantage. The
latest on the redistricting war coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." I'm Jim Sciutto. And here are the international headlines we're watching today.
The U.S. forces say they intercepted an unprovoked Iranian attack on U.S. warships in the Strait of Hormuz. CENCOM says Iran launched multiple
missiles, drones and small boats as U.S. destroyers transited the strait. Iranian media then reported explosions near Iran's Qeshm Island and the
port city of Bandar Abbas. The U.S. military says those explosions, the result of it striking back at Iranian targets.
Health officials across the globe are on alert for signs of possible spread of the deadly antivirus. The cruise ship where the outbreak took place has
now left Cape Verde and is headed to Spain's Canary Islands, where passengers hope to disembark and head home. Officials stress that the virus
does not spread easily among humans, but they are monitoring not just everyone who left the ship so far, but anybody who came into contact with
those people.
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President Trump met with Brazil's President Lula da Silva today for bilateral talks at the White House. Lula described his relationship with
Trump as, quote, "sincere," and said their meeting is an important step toward strengthening U.S.-Brazil relations. Trump said the meeting on trade
and tariffs went very well, despite some, well, quite public spats between the two leaders.
Now, to the latest move to redraw the U.S. electoral map, very rarely mid- decade and ahead of U.S. midterm elections. Amid noisy protests today in Tennessee, Republican lawmakers voted to carve up the state's only majority
black Democratic-held district to eliminate a Democratic stronghold and help keep the GOP in power, potentially, after the midterms.
This follows last month's Supreme Court ruling, which significantly weakened the Voting Rights Act, which offers protections for the voting
power of minorities. Republicans, of course, have already enacted new congressional maps in five states, targeting 13 U.S. House seats currently
held by Democrats. Democrats, in turn, could flip as many as 10 seats in California, Utah and Virginia.
But the weakening of the Voting Rights Act opens a new front. Even with primaries already underway in some states, Democrats now fear new efforts
by Republicans to deliberately weaken the voting power of blacks and other minorities.
Joining me now is Larry Sabato, director for the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia. Larry, good to have you.
LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR POLITICS, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: Thank you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Now, we know all this is extremely unusual to be happening mid- decade. It usually takes place at the end of the decade, after a census. But Republicans opened this Pandora's box. And to date, it had been
relatively even, right, because moves in Texas, Florida, balanced out by Democratic moves in Virginia and California.
But now you have this gutting of the VRA. Where does that leave the math now, when you look at Tennessee, Alabama, Louisiana, South Carolina, all
redrawing their maps again?
SABATO: It's very likely now that Republicans will win the redistricting war for 2026. They will win it by an enormous number of seats. But
somewhere between three and six, they'll gain net three to six seats. You know, in the beginning, we thought Republicans would gain more than that.
And then the Democrats responded in a way that Trump and the Republicans didn't expect. They were aggressive. And they evened it up.
Well, it's no longer even. The Republicans are winning. And they're going to win even more next year. They're going to have a chance to redraw,
according to the Supreme Court decision, in other states as well. My guess is that once it's all done, and that'll be at the end of 2027 or the
beginning of 2028, the Republicans will have gained perhaps 10 seats net, which is substantial in an age when we have a very closely contested House
of Representatives.
SCIUTTO: Now, will Democrats or should I say blue states, states run by Democrats have an opportunity to redraw to their advantage? Under the
Supreme Court ruling as well?
SABATO: Very, very little. But there's more to be done by the blue states under the normal rules of redistricting as they will amend them in their
legislatures, if they have a Democratic governor and a Democratic legislature.
So, I'm talking about New York, New Jersey, Colorado and a few other states where you may have a trifecta after this November. Democrats are probably
going to do well in some of the swing states. So, there's a further opportunity to even it up a bit.
But what a nightmare. You know, we used to only go through this once a decade. Now we're doing it at mid-decade. And I guarantee you, this is
going to spread from mid-decade to every other year someplace.
SCIUTTO: Yes. What does it do to minority voting power in this country, particularly in southern states? Because many advocates from minorities are
noting this has a lot of similarities to the time before the Voting Rights Act, when, you know, the maps were drawn quite deliberately to reduce black
voting power.
SABATO: That is absolutely correct. It's back to the 1950s. I remember the 1950s, Jim. You don't. But in the 1950s, you had no black representation in
the House of Representatives from the south of the border states. I'm not going to say we'll have none. There will be an occasional black congressman
from this state or that state. But Alabama could eliminate both of its black congressmen. Louisiana could eliminate both of its black congressmen.
As you just said, Tennessee has eliminated the one black majority district, which currently is represented by a white person.
[18:40:00]
And there are other states where it's going to go 100 percent or at least 90 percent in the direction of the Republican Party, and there will be no
minority representation in most of these states.
SCIUTTO: The other effect of this is just increasing partisanship, right, because you will take away what few purple districts there are in this
country, and they were already, you know, an endangered species. I mean, it's a longer conversation, we'll have this in the coming weeks, months,
and years, but what will that mean for the nation's politics?
SABATO: I think it's actually as regrettable as the reduction in minority population representation, because we have a deeply divided country. I
think it's as deeply divided as it's been since the 1960s. It's dangerous, and it's becoming more divided and more polarized, and this redistricting
war, which will go on year after year, can only make it worse.
SCIUTTO: Larry Sabato, I know it's not the last time we talk about it. Thanks so much for walking us through it.
SABATO: Thank you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Coming up on "The Brief," America's top diplomat meeting with the Pope in a period of tension between the White House and the Holy See
because of President Trump's attacks on the Pope. We're going to take you to the Vatican next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio at the Vatican meeting Pope Leo. A Vatican spokesman says they discussed the Middle East, Cuba, and
other major global issues. Their meeting came after recent public attacks by President Trump on the Pope, including criticism of the Pope's stance on
the Iran war and immigration. The Pope responded that he has, quote, "no fear" of the Trump administration.
Vatican correspondent Christopher Lamb is live in Rome. And I wonder, is Rubio's visit about Trump repairing his relationship with the Pope and
Catholics or about Rubio and his own designs on running in the next cycle?
CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, of course, Rubio is a practicing Catholic.
[18:45:00]
And, you know, all eyes were on this meeting between the U.S. secretary of state and Pope Leo, given the tensions between the Trump administration and
the papacy. Here's what happened today. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAMB (voice-over): On a mission to cool the rhetoric --
POPE LEO XIV: Mr. Secretary, it's great to see you.
LAMB (voice-over): -- Secretary of State Marco Rubio meeting Pope Leo XIV, at a time when President Donald Trump has launched a series of broadsides
against the first American pontiff.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I think he's very weak on crime.
I'm not a fan of Pope Leo.
LAMB (voice-over): In what has been an extraordinary and unprecedented clash.
POPE LEO XIV: I don't want to get into a debate with him.
LAMB (voice-over): This meeting an attempt to get back to old-fashioned diplomacy.
MARCO RUBIO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: And it has the seal of the State Department. So --
POPE LEO XIV: OK.
LAMB (voice-over): Both sides, at least publicly, downplaying the verbal fisticuffs. Officially, the pair discussing the situation in the Middle
East and other conflicts and a, quote, "shared commitment" to promoting peace. The Vatican saying Cuba was also discussed, with Rubio saying
beforehand that was on the agenda.
RUBIO: They won't allow us to give their own people more humanitarian aid. And we're willing to do it through the church. So, there's a lot to talk
about.
LAMB (voice-over): But deep disagreements remain. Leo would likely speak out against any violent intervention in Cuba and has been vocal in his
opposition to the Iran war, something which has irked the president.
TRUMP: The pope would rather talk about the fact that it's OK for Iran to have a nuclear weapon. And I don't think that's very good. I think he's
endangering a lot of Catholics and a lot of people.
LAMB (voice-over): The pope even correcting the record and showing no signs of backing down.
POPE LEO XIV (through translator): If anyone wants to criticize me for proclaiming the gospel, let them do so with the truth. The church has
spoken out against all nuclear weapons for years. So, there is no doubt.
LAMB (voice-over): The first American pope's leadership has offered a stark contrast to the president, not just speaking out on war, but
criticizing the, quote, "inhuman treatment" of immigrants in the U.S. and calling for protection of the environment and in a language the White House
can understand.
POPE LEO XIV: I'm told that President Trump recently stated that he would like to end the war. Hopefully, he's looking for an off ramp.
LAMB (voice-over): Leo, marking the one-year anniversary of his election, has said he has no fear of the Trump administration and won't compromise on
the core message of his papacy, the desire to pursue peace.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAMB (on camera): Well, Jim, this meeting does go some way, I think, to calming some of the tensions between the papacy and Washington. And Leo has
shown a desire to keep speaking out. But he is also, it seems, conscious of when an accusation against him is not truthful. He said he will continue
speaking out and he's happy to be criticized as long as it's done truthfully. So, he is quite aware of what's being said and he will respond
when needed. Jim.
SCIUTTO: That's quite a position. I can't imagine the back and forth is over, given that. Chris Lamb, thanks so much.
And from the Pope to pop, K-pop specifically. K-pop icons, BTS, are now in Mexico for the first Latin American show in their Arirang World Tour. We
hear from fans ahead of the spectacle, which not surprisingly, is sold out.
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[18:50:00]
SCIUTTO: The maker of the weight loss drug Wegovy reports strong sales in its new pill version. That's good news for Nova Nordisk as well as the
Danish city that produces Wegovy. The global demand for weight loss drugs has transformed the town of Kalundborg. Anna Cooban paid a visit.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNA COOBAN, CNN BUSINESS AND ECONOMICS REPORTER (voice-over): Sailing season is getting underway in Kalundborg.
COOBAN: I can't even drive a car. But now I'm driving a boat.
MARTIN HOGH SORENSEN, KALUNDBORG RESIDENT: Yes, yes. That's nice.
COOBAN: And you just take over if this is not going well.
SORENSEN: If you turn the other way, then the boat will, in a while, turn a little.
COOBAN (voice-over): In this small city in Denmark, you either work for Novo Nordisk or you know somebody who does. Martin Sorensen spent 25 years
there. His friend Anne Louise Eliason manning the sails, 27 years.
SORENSEN: It is changing because we have a lot of international workers now. So -- and that, of course, influence the picture, just the daily life
in town.
COOBAN (voice-over): In Kalundborg, past meets future. On one side of town, a medieval church. On the other, an enormous factory pumps out weight
loss drugs for the world. According to Novo, their operation sits on a site larger than Monaco.
KASPER BODKER MEJLVANG, EVP OF GLOBAL MANUFACTURING, NOVO NORDISK: I started my career here in Kalundborg some 20 years ago. And it is just
mind-blowing the transformation the site has gone through.
COOBAN (voice-over): I've been given exclusive access inside the factory.
COOBAN: So, I'm about to go into a room where they make vast quantities of semaglutide, which is the key ingredient for weight loss drugs and diabetes
drugs. And basically, it's medicine that has to be shipped all around the world. So, it's a highly-sanitized environment.
COOBAN (voice-over): These injectable pens will be sent to the United States to serve its huge appetite for weight loss medications. It's Novo's
biggest market, but also home to its largest competitor, Eli Lilly. Globally as well, competition is rising.
COOBAN: So, in places like India and China, already you've got pharmaceutical companies making generics.
MEJLVANG: Yes.
COOBAN: How do you feel about that? What does it mean for this factory that we're standing in right now?
MEJLVANG: Based on the investments here, we can make huge volumes to supply to the whole world, to the demand of millions of people.
COOBAN (voice-over): Back in town, it's time for a coffee break. Shaun Gamble, originally from New Zealand, used to work for Novo before opening
his cafe on the harbor.
SHAUN GAMBLE, CAFE OWNER: I was working in what they call the warehouse and just packing all the finished products onto pallets, onto trucks and
sending them around the world.
COOBAN (voice-over): Recently Novo has hit somewhat of a rocky patch. In September, it announced thousands of layoffs globally, though mostly across
Denmark.
GAMBLE: The mood changed when you're talking with people. I mean, I also knew a few people who were laid off, buildings still going on. So, I think
we're hoping the momentum carries on again. It was just a little glitch.
COOBAN (voice-over): I asked the mayor if Kalundborg depends too much on Novo Nordisk.
MARTIN DAMM, KALUNDBORG, DENMARK MAYOR: We are dependent on Novo Nordisk, but not only Novo Nordisk. Many years ago, we have just one company in
Kalundborg and when it was broke, the whole city went down. So, today, we have more companies.
COOBAN (voice-over): Novo is hoping its new Wegovy weight loss pill, released in the U.S. in January, can give it a boost. And Novo's chief
executive says the company is making those pills on American soil.
MIKE DOUSTDAR, CEO, NOVO NORDISK: If you think about this Wegovy pill from the creations of the raw material all the way to tableting of the product
to packaging it and, of course, to shipping it, it's all made in the U.S., in North Carolina, by Americans, for Americans.
COOBAN (voice-over): Still, an ocean away in Kalundborg, this city of fewer than 17,000 people remains a perhaps unlikely engine of the global
weight loss rocket ship and as residents are hoping for smooth waters ahead.
COOBAN: How does it feel that this town is one of the centers of this weight loss drug revolution, and that now it's getting international
attention? How does that feel?
SORENSEN: Of course, a little proud. Yes, yes, yes.
COOBAN (voice-over): Anna Cooban, CNN, Kalundborg.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[18:55:00]
SCIUTTO: In just a few hours one of the biggest bands in the world will take the stage in Mexico City where a proverbial Army is waiting for them.
It was an almost royal reception for the kings of K-pop, BTS, who visited Mexico's National Palace ahead of tonight's sold-out show. It's the first
of three concerts there, part of their global tour. Mexican President Claudia Sheinbaum praised the K-pop icons for promoting peace and inclusion
and says the band will be back next year.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLAUDIA SHEINBAUM, MEXICAN PRESIDENT (through translator): The fact that BTS came to the National Palace and greeted the crowd is a nice gesture.
And they'll be coming back next year. The production teams will provide the details on when they will return.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: It's quite a crowd out there. Thanks so much for joining. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. You've been watching "The Brief." Please do stay
with CNN.
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