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The Brief with Jim Sciutto
Drone Strike In Romania; Two Injured After Drone Hits Apartment Building In Romania; Laos Cave Rescue Operation; Rescue Ops To Resume After First Survivor Exits Cave; Kalshi Sues Minnesota Over Its Ban On Prediction Markets; Rising Prices Driving Up Food Insecurity In U.S.; Trump Weighs Deal With Iran; Bondi Grilled By Lawmakers On Capitol Hill; Judge Orders Kennedy Center To Remove Trump's Name. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired May 29, 2026 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR, "THE BRIEF": Hello, and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington, and
you're watching "The Brief."
Just ahead this hour, outrage from NATO allies and E.U. members after a suspected Russian drone slammed into an apartment complex in Romania,
injuring two people. A multinational rescue operation resumes in just a few hours in Laos to save a group still trapped in a flooded cave. One man has
made it out safely. And why famous artists are pulling out of a Trump- backed 250th U.S. anniversary concert. That story, plenty more coming up.
First, however, NATO members are strongly condemning Russia, as Romania accuses Moscow of deliberately targeting an apartment building in the
eastern part of the country with a drone packed with explosives.
That happened early Friday near Romania's border with Moldova and Ukraine, this as Russia was attacking a Ukrainian port city. Romania says the attack
injured two people. In response, it is now closing Russia's consulate in the country.
The country told Reuters that Russian drones have now breached its airspace nearly 30 times, this since Russian forces began attacking Ukrainian ports
just across the Danube River. Russian President Vladimir Putin has suggested the drone involved in Friday's attack was somehow Ukrainian.
Romania's foreign minister spoke to CNN a short time ago, dismissing the Kremlin's attempt to shift blame.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OANA TOIU, ROMANIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: It is the more -- the most severe incident we have seen since the start of the war. Romania has the longest
border with the world, 650 kilometers, and of course we do have the Danube and the Black Sea close to it.
It is important to say, though, that the mother and child are well. They have received medical care. But, of course, the level of worry, the level
of concern is very high, not just in Galatia, the city that was hit, but also across the country and I would dare to say across Allied territory
because this has raised concerns.
I have seen the statements come from Vladimir Putin, and we do have a clear message to him. It is his drone, and we know that he knows it. We have seen
Russia try, whenever these hybrid interferences happen on the eastern flank, to also push their own side of the story, narratives that would
deflect from their own responsibility. But especially in Eastern Europe, we do have a history that teaches us that Russia is not to be trusted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Joining me now, Ivo Daalder, former U.S. ambassador to NATO, now a senior fellow at Harvard's Belfer Center. Ivo, good to speak to you.
IVO DAALDER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO AND SENIOR FELLOW, HARVARD UNIVERSITY'S BELFER CENTER: Glad to be here, Jim.
SCIUTTO: So, the Romanian foreign minister going right up to, but not quite saying Russia did this deliberately. From your point of view, given that
Russian drones have breached European airspace now multiple times over the last several months, and that European officials just in recent days have
been saying they suspect Russia might be preparing to attack in some way a NATO ally, does this look to you like a deliberate attack?
DAALDER: You know, I don't know if it's deliberate or not, but it doesn't really matter. What's going on is the reality that Russia is engaged in a
war of aggression against a European country, Ukraine. And it's not doing very well in that war. In fact, in the last few months, it is starting to
lose territory for the first time in well over a year. The British intelligence chiefs have just reported that 500,000 Russians have lost
their lives. That's an awful lot of people.
The economy is tanking. Official numbers for growth have it going down from 1.4 percent to 0.3 percent of GDP this year, and the economy has not been
growing. And Vladimir Putin is trying to figure out a way to get out of here. And what better than to try to figure out a way if he can distract
attention from his failures, start pointing blame to NATO and to European countries.
[18:05:00]
And so, whether or not the drone was actually meant to hit this building, it's a natural consequence of the action that Russia has been taking for so
long.
SCIUTTO: More broadly, Russia has been carrying out, they've been accused by, as you know, European and NATO ally's intelligence services of carrying
out deliberate attacks of sabotage, as well as other forms of interference in elections. You know the long list of deliberate actions that Russia has
been accused of.
Do you believe that the Russian leader has been emboldened by a partial U.S. retreat from Europe, the reduction in U.S. forces in Romania, Germany,
but also just the president's rhetoric about NATO being a paper tiger and reducing America's commitment to it in general? Has that emboldened the
Russian leader?
DAALDER: Well, whether it has emboldened or not, he's clearly more than pleased to see a division between the United States and Europe, a division
that is deeper and more significant than probably any division we've seen between the United States and Europe in the long history of U.S.-European
relations since the post-war period.
And of course, the Soviet Union and now Russia has had one goal in mind since 1945, which is to get the United States out of Europe. And to the
extent of our differences among allies, differences between the United States and our European allies, to the extent that the president, the
secretary of defense, the secretary of state are starting to question the value of NATO, that plays right into Vladimir Putin's hands.
And in order for him to push that along, many European intelligence services are worried that he might step up his hybrid activities, which you
talked about, and actually challenge NATO boundaries more directly, whether that's in the Baltic states or perhaps this kind of drone attack, to see
how NATO reacts.
And importantly, to see how the president of the United States reacts, to see if there is a reaction from Washington, which I guess so far, at least
I haven't seen one, you may have, but I haven't seen one, and it just raises this question of are we all on the same side? And he's testing that,
and the answer so far is maybe not.
SCIUTTO: Yes, I saw a comment from the U.S. ambassador to NATO, but not from the president himself. Let me ask you this, because I was speaking to
Carl Bildt earlier this afternoon, of course, former Swedish prime minister, and he said that Putin's comments recently have indicated that he
has given up on Trump to some degree, that he believed that Trump was going to help him with the Ukraine war, that he believed that he'd made progress
pushing Trump to something more favorable for Russia in the summit in Alaska, but that now he just doesn't believe Trump can make any of that
happen.
Do you read that similarly? I mean, is Putin, to some degree, viewing Trump now as a lame duck as it relates to Ukraine?
DAALDER: Well, clearly, President Trump has not been able to deliver what Vladimir Putin wants, which is Ukraine agreeing to give up territory it
currently holds. That has been the policy of the United States. It's been the policy of the president of the United States, it's been the policy of
the negotiators with Russia on the United States to trade security assurances, on the one hand, and a ceasefire, on the other, for giving up
all of the Donbas, critical territory that Ukraine has been fighting over since 2014. It has major fortifications, and that's what they have wanted.
President Trump has not delivered on that, as far as Vladimir Putin is concerned. So, yes, I think it is very likely that he has given up on the
United States. In fact, he's made, in recent weeks, said that maybe there should be a European interlocutor.
Remember, of course, that the Europeans did negotiate for many years on the issue of Ukraine, and Vladimir Putin got a lot of what he wanted at that
point. So, maybe that's what he's looking at again.
SCIUTTO: Yes. He did, and then, of course, violated, as you know, many of those agreements. Ivo Daalder, thanks so much for joining.
DAALDER: My pleasure, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Well, right now, it's just after 5:00 a.m. in Laos, the sun coming up, rescue operations set to restart in just about four hours for villagers
still trapped inside that flooded cave. There is hope in the air after the first survivor emerged from inside that cave. There he is there overnight.
This was the very moment he was led to the surface.
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He had spent more than a week underground. Rescue divers say they had to navigate through sharp rocks in near pitch-black conditions.
CNN is the only news network on the ground near that rescue site. We're looking now at CNN exclusive images of an ambulance leaving the scene. The
trapped man entered the cave, we are told, tempting to mine for gold. Rescuers found five of them alive, two remain missing.
Locating those miners, getting them out is a global effort. The rescued man's father is grateful that so many people came to their aid.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Thank you so much to the rescue team. I want to express my deepest gratitude. My brothers, sisters,
children, and grandchildren thank you all so much for leaving your work behind and coming all this way to help us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: A moment of relief there for one family. Well, one of those rescue divers told CNN that this rescue is especially complex in part because of
the survivor's health at this point. Producer Kocha Orlan translated that conversation live. You'll see here next to our correspondent Will Ripley.
KOCHA OLRAN, CNN PRODUCER: He just said that today's extraction activities will suspend for tonight. They will resume again at 9:00 a.m. The reason is
that all the divers and rescuers are very, very tired. So, the guys that he retrieved today have some problem with his hands and foot, because it's
been in the water and damp area for a long time, and he has some problem at his stomach.
Four of them started to have some illnesses already. Some of them have stomach issues. Some of them have skin issues, and also the skin at their
hands and their feet have some problem because they've been in a damp area for a very long time. And some of them have intestine issues because they
didn't go to toilet for a very long time.
WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Man, so when do they think they might be able to get them out? In the morning?
OLRAN: OK. Four of them started to have some illnesses already. Some of them have stomach issues. Some of them have skin issues, and also the skin
at their hands and their feet have some problem because they've been in a damp area for a very long time. And some of them have intestine issues
because they didn't go to toilet for a very long time.
Thanks for bringing me this here. Yes, I can hear you guys. This is a diver who's inside the cave right now.
ORLAN: OK. So, he explains that they're trying to start their job in the morning, but it's also pretty much depending on the understandings of these
survivors, the remaining four. He has to see how much these survivors understand the procedures diving out of the flooded chambers. So, he cannot
say for certain if there will be more tomorrow, how many people would be ready to come out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Our producer there translating a conversation with one of those rescue divers, Rick Murcar, is the international training director for the
National Association of Cave Divers, and he joins us now. Rick, thanks so much for taking the time.
RICK MURCAR, INTL. TRAINING DIRECTOR, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF CAVE DIVERS: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: So, you yourself have been involved in some of the world's most dangerous cave diving operations. Can you explain to our viewers just how
difficult an operation like this one in these conditions we're talking about here, flooded cave, a thousand feet in, I believe, how difficult this
rescue is?
MURCAR: It's quite difficult. It's very complex. You have to appreciate that many people are comparing this to the 2018 soccer team incident, and
although geographically they're in the same Asian part of the world, the only thing that really connects them is the weather pattern that they're in
the rain season. You got two separate mountain ranges. This particular mountain range is very steep. There's no roads that go up to it, so any
equipment has to be brought up, usually I would think delivered by helicopter, loaded into position.
You're going to be in the manpower up to operate it with your surface support team, and then as you escalate down, and I'm saying escalate
literally on this, as you escalate down to getting down to the actual rescue team members, their psychology, the equipment needs that they have,
their health, their fatigue, and of course the health that we've mentioned already about the minors. So, there's a lot to play in here.
Good that they got the one guy out. It's proven what they decided to do to work. Will it continue to work? Because every cave is a different
environment, a little separate ecosystem onto itself.
[18:15:00]
No two recoveries or rescues are the same. You can do that in the same cave day in, day out, and they're not going to match up to be the same. The
requirements will be different.
What really complicates this is the fact that you have dry and wet cave areas. If the rain pattern, I believe it's going to rain there later
tonight, that may bring the water levels up, but it's going to bring back a little bit more emphasis on the diving capability. With the minors, you had
people that may have never scuba dived in their life. Now, they're getting to learn how to do it to the pinnacle of diving, and that is cave diving.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
MURCAR: Not only that, but to do it in a zero visibility. So, for the rescuers to operate in that environment with cave diving instruction, we
often train our people for worst-case scenario. That means we're going to take them to lights out, no visibility. Usually, we have a little bit more
playroom than what they have there. We're not doing this within 18-to-24- inch space to maneuver in. So, communication, all this kind of stuff is going to play into it.
The rescuer people and the minors, when they get the equipment on, will only be able to see up to the glass that's on their face mask for the scuba
gear.
SCIUTTO: Yes. How do you --
MURCAR: They have to move with that. It's going to be very challenging.
SCIUTTO: I'm curious, it's physically challenging, but given these spaces, some 60 centimeters, as you say, 18 inches or so, it's got to be mentally
challenging. How do you not panic in those spaces, particularly in the dark, in the water, underwater?
MURCAR: So, you know, the physical side is correct. It will be very challenging. They're worming through these holes. They're like little
worms. They have to move with their fingertips, their toes, lay flat, and just shimmy, in some cases, exhale to get through some of this passage. I
do not know this cave system. I'm just saying that that could be the potential to what they're facing based on what Mikko has said.
Now, the psychological part, you have to appreciate that you, now as a rescuer, you've done your job. You've gone in and said, hey, I need to
locate. We've located. Now, we need to extract. We're starting to extract. That puts a lot of pressure on you because you have this person that's
grabbing your ankle, and they're placing their trust in you.
And you've got to keep them under control as well as your own thought because cave trained or not, everybody has a limit. And if the parameters
start to collapse in on you and they aggregate, putting you to a narrow perception where panic can start to happen, it doesn't matter whether
you're a cave diver or not, you begin to panic and you can kill the person that's trying to help you or the person that you're trying to help.
So, that's on their mind. They need to keep that in check. And I'm sure they're doing it. They've done this before. They sort of learn that fear
can help drive them to make sure they're staying to the fundamentals. They're doing exactly what they need to do, inch by inch movement. And that
part is why it's taking so long to extract one person at a time. Add to that a person that may have never been on scuba, let alone that they can't
see. Mud water's tea color at best, maybe, if not. And this cave is changing with each flow of rainwater that gets in. You've got clay, mud,
silt that shifts. You've got debris that plugs up the hole. They've got to move that.
One of the things that's good, as I noticed in the video, is that there's a rope. Whereas in cave diving, we tend to use a line. The rope should be a
little bit more stable. That should be a reassuring thing for them, as long as they stay on that to be able to work their way out of that passage.
SCIUTTO: Sure.
MURCAR: It is a mentally demanding effort.
SCIUTTO: Yes, yes. And dangerous for the rescuers as well, we should acknowledge. Rick Murcar, we appreciate you --
MURCAR: It is, yes.
SCIUTTO: -- helping explain it all to us.
MURCAR: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Still ahead, the prediction market Kalshi is trying to fight back after Minnesota has passed a ban on prediction markets. We're going to hear
from a state lawmaker now leading the fight against Kalshi ung and similar sites.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:20:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back. In today's Business Breakout, yet another record- breaking day on Wall Street. The Dow closed above 51,000 for the first time, as traders hope for an end to the Iran war. All the major averages
closed out a winning week and a month. The NASDAQ, the big winner, up more than 7 percent in May.
The State of Minnesota is set to ban prediction markets such as Kalshi and Polymarket from operating there, effective August 1st. Now, Kalshi is suing
to overturn the law. It says the federal government gave the Commodities Futures Trading Commission, the CFTC, exclusive jurisdiction over so-called
events contracts. The ban is also facing a legal challenge from the Trump administration.
Earlier, I spoke to Minnesota lawmaker, Emma Greenman, who introduced that measure. She denies claims that prediction markets are not gambling and
that states are overstepping their authority and banning them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STATE REP. EMMA GREENMAN (D-MN): Since Minnesota has been a territory, we have regulated gambling just like this. And so, we are joining the other
states who are making it really clear that we are the ones who have to decide how to protect our citizens and how to protect our communities from
this shadowy gambling markets.
SCIUTTO: There's something particular about prediction markets, right? Because unlike, say, I don't know, choosing black or red in roulette,
unless you can sort of put your finger on the roulette wheel, here you have people, I mean, there have been allegations of folks who have insider
information betting on prediction markets and making a lot of money, including people in government.
Is that a particular risk with prediction markets? But also, does that create a particular legal argument in your case, the ability to manipulate?
GREENMAN: So, the issue of both insider trading, self-dealing, and just gaming these gambling markets is a huge problem. And it's a problem of both
the gambling markets themselves and also public trust. As we have seen, it feels like every week, right? We saw a special ops guy betting on the
Maduro raid. And then the next week we saw candidates, including one in Minnesota, betting on their own races. And then the week after that, we saw
campaign staff betting.
And I think you can see it across industry and across all of these gambling markets, this is a huge problem. And I will leave it to our attorney
general and to the lawyers for states around the country to litigate the issue.
But I absolutely think that the challenge we have is states are set up to regulate gambling. The CFTC is not. This is not about wheat and corn
futures and institutional investors. This is something totally different that needs to be regulated in the same way we regulate any casinos,
lotteries, charitable gambling, and the kinds of things that states normally do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: We must note that CNN has a partnership with Kalshi and uses its data to cover major events. But editorial employees are prohibited from
using prediction markets.
Checking some of today's other business headlines now. Dell Technologies soared to record highs Friday after posting strong quarterly results. The
tech giant reported sales growth of almost 90 percent due to strong demand for its servers used in artificial intelligence. The firm is also raising
its future guidance. Shares closed the day up 32 percent. Their best trading day ever.
[18:25:00]
New data shows that Canada's economy is falling into a technical recession. The country's GDP contracted fractionally in the first quarter. It's the
second straight quarter of negative growth, which is the textbook definition of a recession. Canada is facing numerous economic difficulties.
and challenges, including trade uncertainty with the U.S. The crude oil price shock is also weighing on growth.
Blue Origin is now trying to figure out exactly what went wrong after a spectacular, fiery setback for its space program on Thursday. The company's
new Glenn rocket, as it's known, named after the astronaut John Glenn, exploded like this. Wow. On the launch pad. This in Cape Canaveral,
Florida. It was hoping to launch dozens of satellites into orbit. Company head Jeff Bezos called it, quote, "a rough day" and says the film will
rebuild. We should note that no one, thankfully, was injured.
Rising costs across the U.S. are now driving up food insecurity, pushing more people to rely on mobile food markets. Maria Santana went to one such
market in the Bronx and brought us back this story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARIA SANTANA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (through translator): The line keeps going and going and going, wrapping around an entire city block.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I've been here since 9:00 in the morning.
SANTANA (voice-over): In the Bronx, dozens of people wait for hours, carrying carts, bags and backpacks, hoping to take food home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): It's gotten really hard because prices have gone up so much and what we make is barely enough anymore.
SANTANA (voice-over): It's a scene becoming more and more common across New York City.
PEDRO URBAEZ, DIRECTOR OF COMMUNITY DISTRIBUTION, CITY HARVEST: It all comes down to the affordability crisis that we are seeing here in New York
City and most folks have to decide how they want to spend their money and usually food is the last thing they think about.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Yesterday I went grocery shopping, bought maybe three or four things and it was already percent90.
SANTANA (voice-over): This mother of two says coming to City Harvest's mobile food markets is no longer a choice. It's a necessity to help feed
her kids.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I see they're giving out eggs, that helps for breakfast and bananas for snacks for the kids.
SANTANA (voice-over): Martina Santos is now a City Harvest volunteer but says she's also experienced hunger.
MARTINA SANTOS, VOLUNTEER, CITY HARVEST (through translator): I've had to skip meals. If I eat breakfast, then I can't eat lunch because I don't have
enough. So, I save it for dinner so I don't go to bed hungry.
SANTANA (voice-over): A situation she fears could put her health at risk. I'm diabetic. I have high blood pressure.
SANTOS (through translator): I have to eat healthy to keep my condition under control.
SANTANA (voice-over): According to City Harvest, more than 1 million New Yorkers, including one in every four children, live in households
struggling to put food on the table.
SANTANA: And on a national level, more than 48 million people in the United States live in homes where food is not enough.
URBAEZ: Our mobile market serves somewhere between 500 and 600 families per distribution. Most families will be receiving between 20 and 25 pounds of
fresh fruits and vegetables.
SANTANA (voice-over): While Martina Santos now helps distribute that food, she says programs like this have saved her life.
SANTOS (through translator): For me, this has been a blessing, helping me through my depression and helping me put a decent plate of food on my
table.
SANTANA (through translator): Thank you for volunteering and I appreciate everything that you do.
SANTANA (voice-over): Maria Santana, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: People in deep need. Coming up on "The Brief," no announcements as President Trump leaves the Situation Room or a meeting on a tentative deal
proposal with Iran wrapped up a few hours ago. Still no answer as to what he's decided. We'll head to the White House.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:30:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." I'm Jim Sciutto. And here are the international headlines we're watching today.
Condemnation from Romania, other NATO members and the E.U., after a suspected Russian drone struck an apartment building near Romania's eastern
border today. Two people were injured. Romania's president says the Russian consul general in Constanta is quote, "persona non grata," and the
consulate there will be shuttered. Russia's president suggests the strike might have been a Ukrainian drone.
Officials in Laos are expected to resume rescue operations in the next several hours. This after rescue teams saved this man trapped in a flooded
cave for more than a week. Specialist divers say the rescue has been grueling. Four men remain inside a cavern far from the entrance. Two others
are still missing.
A federal judge has temporarily blocked the Trump administration's plan for a nearly percent1.8 billion anti-weaponization fund. President Trump wants
that money to go to people who claim to have been unfairly targeted by the Biden administration. The fund has been challenged by critics who say it's
unconstitutional, even many Republicans not on board. The judge paused any payments while she considers arguments.
President Trump has concluded a meeting in the Situation Room on Iran without announcing his decision on a proposed ceasefire plan. Earlier
today, the president said he was meeting with his advisers to determine whether he will approve of the proposed deal. This comes after U.S.
officials said Washington and Tehran reached a tentative agreement this week to open the Strait of Hormuz and then begin talks on thornier issues
such as Iran's nuclear program. However, Iran's foreign ministry says the two sides have not yet finalized the Memorandum of Understanding.
Alayna Treene is live at the White House. So, we're still waiting for the president's decision after this meeting. Is it your sense from speaking to
your sources in the White House that the president's ready to move forward?
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It doesn't seem so. And look, I was told that this meeting, Jim, lasted two hours in the Situation Room.
His top national security officials and others like the vice president, J.D. Vance, Secretary of State Marco Rubio were with him.
And the president, I'd remind you, this morning when he posted around 11:00 a.m. that he was going to be heading into that meeting, he vowed to make a
final determination on whether or not to give this Memorandum of Understanding, which sources told us yesterday they had struck a tentative
agreement on. He said he would make a final determination on whether he would give it his approval.
Of course, this meeting has wrapped hours ago now, and we have not heard of that. This is what a White House official told me, though, about where
things stand, and I don't think it's that optimistic.
[18:35:00]
They said, quote, "The Situation Room meeting has concluded and lasted approximately two hours. President Trump will only make a deal that is good
for America and satisfies his red lines. Iran can never possess a nuclear weapon."
Now, of course, we can't overly read into this, but I think it's clear that if he hasn't given his approval yet, there could still be some things that
he wants to see out of this that perhaps are not already in this framework. But we have to see.
And again, I think it's important to remind viewers that this would not be the permanent, long-lasting deal that would end the war completely. This
would just be a short-term deal, a framework deal, to then try and get another deal down the line. It would trigger a 60-day negotiating period to
work on the details of what we know are the thorniest issues here, as you mentioned, the nuclear program.
But that also includes, of course, how would they enforce? If Iran does ultimately commit to not having a nuclear weapon, what would be the
enforcement mechanism for that? Also, of course, what is going to happen with the highly enriched uranium? You heard the president earlier today say
that the U.S. would go in and retrieve it and ultimately destroy it. That has not been something that we've heard the Iranians say they are OK with.
So, I think there still might be some wiggle room here before a final short-term deal is actually struck.
SCIUTTO: Yes. And of course, there's no guarantee when they move into that negotiating period that they work out a way forward on those thornier
issues. Alayna Treene at the White House, thanks so much.
Joining me now, Danny Citrinowicz, he's a senior fellow at Israel's Institute for National Security Studies, former head of the Iran branch of
Israel's Defense Intelligence, joining us from Tel Aviv. Danny, good to have you back.
DANNY CITRINOWICZ, SENIOR FELLOW, ISRAEL'S INSTITUTE FOR NATIONAL SECURITY STUDIES AND FORMER HEAD OF IRAN BRANCH, ISRAEL DEFENSE INTELLIGENCE: Thank
you very much for having me.
SCIUTTO: First, I want to get Israel's view of the proposal currently on the table. Is it correct to say there's fear among Israeli officials right
up to the prime minister that the president's going to peace out of this war before the U.S. and Israel accomplish their goals?
CITRINOWICZ: Definitely, you're absolutely right. I think that for Israel, Israel prefers no deal than a bad deal. And for Israel, every deal with
Iran is a bad deal, meaning that Israel will be opposed to any agreement that Trump will push against Iran.
I think that for Israel, it's actually a complete nightmare because it's actually collapse of the Benjamin Netanyahu and the Israeli government
policies regarding Iran, because at the end of the day, instead of replacing the regime or toppling the regime, actually this agreement will
strengthen the regime. But even worse than that, this agreement, as we know, doesn't touch the core basis that's really alarming Israel, from the
missiles to the proxies. And even on the nuclear, we're discussing freezing and diluting material, not stopping the enrichment.
So, definitely for Israel, it's a complete nightmare. It's a catastrophe, especially when you consider what were the goals at the beginning of the
war.
SCIUTTO: In your latest piece in Foreign Affairs, you argue that the war and the pressure pushed by the U.S. actually helped preserve the Iranian
regime. I mean, I wonder if you would say the U.S. and Israeli plan for this war made the regime stronger, despite all those early decapitation
strikes right up to the supreme leader.
CITRINOWICZ: Definitely. I'm not underestimating the strikes and the damage that was caused to the Iranians, the Iranian regime, the political one, the
economical one, especially the security one. There were major achievements in terms of the operational side. But we have to remember what happened
before the war.
This regime didn't have any solution to the problems that the Iranian population submitted to the Iranian leadership. And actually, this war gave
a lifeline, especially for the Al-Jazeera, for the extremists. Now, they are rallying around the flag, against the U.S., against Israel. And even
worse than that, it seems that they improved the deterrence, and now they're forcing the U.S. to agree to an agreement that actually will
strengthen the same regime that they want to topple.
So, definitely, I think, connecting to what I wrote in my article, at the end of the day, when you're calculating everything, I think that this war,
instead of toppling the regime, strengthened the regime in a way that actually fortified his position towards the future.
SCIUTTO: So, if that's true, if and when the two sides get to a ceasefire and then this negotiating period, is it realistic that they'll come to
agreement on the far tougher issues, the position of the highly enriched uranium, et cetera, going forward, or might Iran calculate, you know,
Trump's not interested in war, he's going to be a lame duck soon, we don't have to make a longer-term agreement?
CITRINOWICZ: Well, for the Iranians, I think it's a win-win. I think they are hoping for each final agreement that we leave the sanctions while
they're giving limiting concessions on the nuclear. But you have to remember they're not foregoing anything, not missiles, not proxies. And
even the nuclear, as mentioned, they're talking about only freezing and not depriving the right to enrich.
[18:40:00]
So, I think in regard, they have -- they feel that they have the upper hand. Now, I think it would be very hard to reach an agreement even only on
the nuclear issue within 60 days. And I think that for the Iranians, they're thinking, OK, in 60 days no way that President Trump will return
back to the war.
So, let's agree on the MOU. And if we have a final agreement, if the sanctions break. And if not, they're not going to return back to the war
itself. So, I think that for them, as the agreement is built right now, it's actually more or less a win-win for them. This is why they're actually
pushing that forward.
SCIUTTO: Danny Citrinowicz, always good to have your analysis.
CITRINOWICZ: Thank you very much.
SCIUTTO: Still to come on "The Brief," former U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi grilled over the administration's handling of the Epstein files, once
again. What she said, what she didn't say, and how Democrats are responding.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Former U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi was back on Capitol Hill today testifying behind closed doors to a House committee investigating the
release of the Epstein file. She defended the Justice Department when she led it and how it handled the files, even though millions of pages still
haven't been released.
Just ahead of her appearance, a group of Epstein survivors spoke to the media, saying they hope that Congress will hold Bondi accountable.
Democratic lawmakers say Bondi refused to answer any questions about President Trump and blamed issues with the release of the files on her
former deputy and current acting attorney general, Todd Blanche. CNN's Paula Reid has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: The former attorney general testified for just under four hours. This much anticipated
appearance actually happened behind closed doors. It was not broadcast live, nor was it even taped. The only record we're going to get is a
transcript that the chairman of the committee has vowed a true release. You could get that next week.
But as of right now, we're relying on those lawmakers and what they say when they come out. The former attorney general and her lawyer. So far,
Democrats, were suggesting that the former attorney general was pinning a lot of the blame for how the review and redaction and release of Epstein
files happened on acting Attorney General Todd Blanche, who did oversee that process. But Democratic lawmakers who came out, they said that she was
repeatedly trying to pin the blame on him.
Now, in a statement shortly after she wrapped here, Pam Bondi put on social media that that was not true. And she had a lot of praise for Todd Blanche.
[18:45:00]
Now, Bondi is being represented by the Civil Rights Division chief at the Justice Department, Harmeet Dhillon. It's a little unusual because she is a
current Justice Department official representing a former Justice Department official. Dhillon did speak to reporters after this hearing. She
said that she was there to represent the interests of a former attorney general and the Justice Department.
She also dismissed concerns about Bondi pointing to Blanche as, you know, this is how it works. And, you know, the attorney general, you delegate
tasks to other people. She just dismissed it as common, not necessarily trying to pin the blame on Blanche.
Now, Republicans were also pressed by survivors who were up here on Capitol Hill ahead of this hearing, demanding that they ask questions that they
have long been trying to get answers to about the handling of this investigation, those redaction mistakes, even the Ghislaine Maxwell's
transfer from one prison to another.
But we won't know what exactly transpired in this hearing until we get that transcript that will happen at the earliest next week.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Still a lot of questions not answered. Well, lawmakers in Louisiana have passed a new congressional map giving Republicans another
seat in the House, leaving the state with only one majority black district represented by Democrats. This comes a month after the Supreme Court struck
down the current map as an illegal racial gerrymander, weakening the 1965 Federal Voting Rights Act.
That decision also intensified President Trump's ongoing attempt to carry out a rare mid-decade redistricting battle across the U.S., all in an
effort to attempt to protect Republicans' slim majority in the House as midterm elections approach.
Still ahead, star-spangled trouble for President Trump's upcoming Freedom 250 concert series. More performers are pulling out of the July 4th events
here in Washington. We'll tell you who and why.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: A federal judge has now ordered the removal of President Trump's name from the Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts within two weeks. U.S.
District Judge Casey Cooper says the Performing Arts Center was named by Congress in honor of the late president and the board cannot change it. He
also temporarily blocked the center's planned closure for renovations. A number of artists have backed out of playing the Kennedy Center since Trump
put his name on it. Trump posted on Truth Social that he will now give control of the center to Congress, the president calling it, quote, "a
failing institution."
Well, a growing number of musicians are dropping out of a concert series set to begin next month on Washington's National Mall. Singer Bret Michaels
and country star Martina McBride are the latest performers to quit the event.
The event being put on by Freedom 250, a group organized by the White House to celebrate the United States 250th birthday. Both Michaels and McBride
say they expected it to be a patriotic but nonpartisan gathering. They now believe that's not the case.
[18:50:00]
Michaels said, quote, "What was presented to us as a celebration of our country is involved into something much more divisive than I agreed to be a
part of." He also cited safety concerns.
Other artists that have dropped out include Morris Day and The Time, Young MC, and The Commodores. A spokesman for Freedom 250 says it respects the
decision of the artists but remains committed to putting on the shows.
Joining me now is Chris Willman. He's a senior music writer and chief music critic at Variety. Chris, good to have you. What exactly did they see in
this event that indicated to them that this is more politics than patriotism?
CHRIS WILLMAN, SENIOR MUSIC WRITER AND CHIEF MUSIC CRITIC, VARIETY: Well, I think a lot of it is reading between the lines. And Freedom 250 was very
careful to keep mention even of Trump's name out of their website and promotional materials, which is fairly rare for anything Trump-oriented.
Typically, he wants his name on everything.
But this was conceived or at least presented as a nonpartisan event or series of events happening in Washington on the National Mall throughout
June and into July. And the general feeling is there's no such thing as nonpartisan with anything that Trump has backed. And I think a lot of
people didn't really realize, the artists who were signed up for it, that this was a Trump-founded foundation, Freedom 250.
And, you know, recently, Freedom 250 put on a prayer meeting on the National Mall that very much seemed like a MAGA event. And I think people
saw that and may have started to realize that that's what these concert events could turn into, whether the performers identify as Trump supporters
or not.
SCIUTTO: It's not the first time we've had musicians express dissatisfaction with the politics as a tie to this administration. We
mentioned the Kennedy Center prior, a lot of artists, a whole host pulled out when Trump put his name on it and made other changes. Does this spell a
bigger problem as we approach July 4th events and other events just in general? I mean, is it going to be hard for this administration to sign
music acts?
WILLMAN: Yes, I think these things are tied in because I covered both the cancellations that were happening at the Kennedy Center last year, when the
calendar suddenly became pretty empty of any name acts. And now, everyone dropping out of this. And in both cases, it was kind of like a death watch
is one by one, everyone who had a name sort of dropped out.
And in this case, you have like, you know, '90s pop acts, it was all nostalgic acts. You know, you've got Vanilla Ice and Milli Vanilli, who are
two of the only ones who are still left in. So, these are not contemporary big-name acts who have a lot to lose in terms of their status or anything.
But even they are afraid to be associated and tarred with the Trump administration. And you see that in the comments, the backlash they got.
And so, it's very difficult for Trump, who's had an adversarial relationship with artists and entertainers at Hollywood to, you know, get
people in line. And, you know, when he had his first Kennedy Center honors last year, you saw, you know, the quality of the people who signed on for
that very quickly change from, you know, some of the top artists in the world to not to completely disparage them, but people like Kiss, the rock
group, and Sylvester Stallone, people who not -- might typically not have been in line for that honor before. So, it's a tough relationship with him
in the arts.
SCIUTTO: Yes. I guess the concern is, are the politics so divisive in this country right now that you'll run into this problem a lot, or is this
something, particular or most particular, to the Trump administration and how he's approached this?
WILLMAN: Yes. I really think it's with the Trump administration. I mean, you think back to the closest comparable time we had here in America, which
was the bicentennial 50 years ago. And at that time, you know, everybody in the country was doing bicentennial events and no one thought, oh, we're
going to get we're going to get tarred by association with Gerald Forge. You know, so it's a different situation, unfortunately.
SCIUTTO: Yes. I hope we figure out a way to celebrate because I still remember -- I don't know about you, but I still remember -- I was young,
but I do remember seeing those tall ships pass in New York Harbor. And I hope that -- well, I hope to create similar memories for my kids.
WILLMAN: Yes, for sure. Yes. Yes.
SCIUTTO: Chris Willman, appreciate having you on.
WILLMAN: Hey, thanks for having me.
SCIUTTO: Well, in sports, there's been a major upset of the French Open. Novak Djokovic's bid for a record 25th Grand Slam title ended in a stunning
loss to 19-year-old Brazilian Joao Fonseca. Djokovic won the first two sets, but Fonseca mounted a remarkable comeback. It was Djokovic's first
Grand Slam defeat to a teenager with Carlos Alcaraz absent due to injury. Jannik Sinner out.
[18:55:00]
You know, this was a good path for Djokovic to win that 25th. But with Djokovic out, the men's singles tournament is now guaranteed to have a
first time Grand Slam champion. Probably not going to be me.
Thanks so much for your company. I hope you have a good weekend. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. You've been watching "The Brief." Please do stay
with CNN.
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