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The Brief with Jim Sciutto

CNN International: Jordan Says It Intercepted Iranian Missiles; U.S. Military Carries Out New Strikes on Iranian Targets; Germany Blames Russia For Drone Attack; Russia Intensifies Missile and Drone Attacks Against Ukraine; Global Bond Sell-Off; Desperate Rescue Efforts in Nepal; Jury in Clancy Murder Trial to Resume Deliberations Wednesday. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired September 01, 2026 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR, "THE BRIEF": Hello and welcome to our viewers, joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington, and

you're watching "The Brief."

Just ahead this hour, the U.S. launches more strikes on Iran while Jordan says it intercepted 10 missiles fired by Iran. We'll bring you the latest

out of the Middle East. Germany has now accused Russia of responsibility for an attempted drone attack on Leipzig Airport last month. I'll speak to

a German member of the European Parliament. And another day, still no verdict in the Lindsay Clancy trial. Jurors have gone home now but have

been instructed by the judge that deliberations will continue. A former judge will join me to discuss.

We begin with what could be another dangerous escalation in the Iran war. Jordan says it intercepted 10 missiles fired by Iran after the U.S.

launched a new round of strikes on Iranian targets. Officials in Tehran say at least four people, including a child, were killed and dozens injured

when a U.S. strike hit a wedding celebration in southern Iran. The U.S. says it was targeting Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps in response

to recent attempted attacks on commercial shipping in the Strait of Hormuz. President Trump promised Iran could be, quote, "if it retaliates.

Kristen Holmes joins me now. Kristen, here we are again. And I just wonder, when you speak to White House officials, do they expect this latest round

of strikes to accomplish what they say they're looking to accomplish, right, which is to, one, intimidate Iran, stop its own strikes, and also

bring it to the negotiating table?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It's unclear if they actually believe this is going to bring them to the negotiating table or if

part of this is just the idea that they had to respond to Iran trying to strike these U.S. military bases in Jordan. But it does seem to be

escalating here. President Trump really trying to define these military operations earlier today as justified, as a response to Iran, essentially

saying that they were limited.

But, as you noted, he said this, essentially, if Iran was to retaliate, that they would face even more severe consequences or severe action by the

U.S. military. Now, of course, we have seen Iran now retaliate. Now, no casualties have been reported at this time, as you noted. Jordanian

officials have said that they have intercepted 10 missiles coming from Iran. Iran has been claiming, through their various state channels, that a

large number of U.S. forces were killed.

Central Command says that is absolutely not true. And, again, there have been no casualties reported. But, of course, we've seen this from the

Iranians before as they try to bolster their messaging. It doesn't seem as though this is going to die down. President Trump continues to say that if

they strike the United States or U.S. air forces or U.S. military bases, that he is going to retaliate. So, it seems as though he will have to

retaliate in this case.

Again, what we have been seeing this administration do was work or move away from any kind of military operation for a number of reasons and into

this economic strangling of Iran. Here, though, it doesn't appear that either side is willing to back down or stop.

SCIUTTO: Yes. No question. Before we go, Kristen, this is happening as we know. President Trump has been warned by military leaders that extending

the deployment of U.S. forces in the Middle East will stretch U.S. forces, really, it seems, beyond their capacity and have impacts in other theaters,

including Asia. How is the White House trying to balance this? They feel a need to attack Iran, continue to attack Iran, but know that they have

limited resources.

HOLMES: It seems as though everyone is clear that there are limited resources. And, again, I will note that the White House administration has

been pretty transparent in this idea of moving from any kind of military operation into an economic strategy, away from using missiles, et cetera.

Some of the economic strategy would include using military forces just in terms of the blockade, for example, on the Strait of Hormuz.

[18:05:00]

But they are aware that this cannot continue, that this cannot go on the way it is going on. For the resources issue, both in terms of actual

troops, in terms of what they have for resources for weaponry and missiles and ammunition. So, they are aware that this cannot continue as a full-

blown military experiment.

However, it also seems as though, at least what we're hearing from President Trump, that he doesn't want to be the side that backs down if

there is a retaliation, which now, of course, we've seen again.

SCIUTTO: Well, Iran's certainly testing him. Kristen Holmes at the White House, thanks so much.

In a study development, Germany is now publicly blaming Russia for a drone attack on a busy airport in the City of Leipzig last month. The drone

discovered inside a secure area of that airport, forcing a bomb disposal unit to be deployed. The E.U. says it will announce a clear response to

Russia this week, including additional sanctions.

In a separate incident today, German authorities said part of the country's electricity grid was sabotaged. Authorities do not yet know who was behind

that latest attack, but Berlin says it cannot rule out a foreign power. All this appears to fit into a broader pattern of Russian destabilization

operations against Europe, a hybrid war, as many European officials are calling it.

From Brussels now, let's bring in German member of the European Parliament, Michael Gahler. He's with the Christian Democrats, also a standing

rapporteur on Ukraine. Michael, it's good to have you. Thanks so much for joining.

MICHAEL GAHLER, EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT MEMBER, GERMANY: Good evening from Brussels.

SCIUTTO: These attacks, as you know, have been going on for some time, from drone overflight to sabotage. And now, this particular attack at the

airport, which I think there's no other way to describe it than an attempted terror attack. Is it correct to say that Russia is now at war

with Europe, at a minimum, a hybrid war?

GAHLER: Well, the Interior Minister Dobrindt today said, we are not at war with Russia, but we are a daily target of hybrid warfare. And I think that

is a correct description. Russia tries and tests us, not only us, you rightly said all over Europe, we see these incidents. And I think today,

after a month of investigation and checks, there was, I think, an appropriate, proportionate and also prudent answer from the government in

reaction to this outrageous act.

SCIUTTO: Prudent, you say, but is it working? Because Europe has been responding, it says it's been responding to a series of attacks for months,

and yet the attacks can not only continue, but get more serious. What evidence do you have that Europe's response so far has a chance of

deterring Russia?

GAHLER: Well, it will not change Russia's warfare in Ukraine. I mean, if we act, well, if we react in a way that we close the General Consulate in

Bonn and this Russia house in Berlin, which is OK, that is a site of espionage. So, it's good to close it. But that will not change the war.

I mean, what we need to do is something that impresses Putin, and that is more weapons deliveries. We must really try and get the remaining patriots

that are existing in Europe, in Spain, in Greece particularly, but also in Germany, and deliver it, because unfortunately, our American friends have

used them mostly in Iran. So, that is one thing.

And we should also, well, be stricter, especially on the shadow fleet. And in this regard, the government was not yet that clear. I think we should

dare, as the largest Baltic Sea state, what our partners Sweden, Finland, and Denmark are daring. They are holding these ships. They are searching

it. They are checking their identity, whether they are renamed with other registers and so on. And it all takes time. Simply to delay these

shipments, that makes the things more expensive, not only for Russia, but also for the ship owners, who might at some stage hopefully say, OK, let's

earn the money elsewhere.

SCIUTTO: Well, if, as you say, Spain, Greece, Germany, and other European nations do have stockpiles of interceptors, which they could share, why

haven't they sent them yet? I mean, as you know, Ukraine every night is under relentless missile attacks.

GAHLER: Well, the argument is we cannot make us totally, well, shall I say, naked. And Greece, of course, always argues, look at Turkey. But I'm

saying then, well, friends, I don't have the impression that Turkey is about to attack Greece. But Russia is at a daily base attacking Ukraine.

So, please deliver it, especially as these, what is -- the PAC-2 Patriot systems, they are expiring next year.

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And then instead of sending it elsewhere, or just ending it, they should send it now so that they can serve the purpose of defending Ukraine cities.

SCIUTTO: What is the impact of the U.S. in effect sitting this out? Not just the war in Ukraine increasingly, but also this expansion of the U.S.

We haven't heard the president condemn these attacks on Europe. In fact, as you know, he welcomed Europe back into the G20. Does that entice to push

harder?

GAHLER: He welcomed Russia back into the Spanish ministry.

SCIUTTO: Yes, Russia back. Apologies.

GAHLER: Well, we would all wish so. We would wish so. And we can speculate why he does not. And it's -- well, it doesn't lead anywhere. We are -- it's

very regretful that the United States at this stage is in this shape and with this administration. But that is, we have to take it as it is.

And it's a war in Europe. It's our prime responsibility. And that is where we are. And we have to try and get hold of ammunition wherever we could get

it. But it shows also that we really need to become autonomous in a way that we can produce what we need at some stage. And we should deliver also

the far-ranging missiles, the towers for the Germans, in order to enable Ukraine to crush the sites where these rockets, these missiles are

produced, these Iskander and the other -- the hypersonic missiles who attack Ukraine every day. That is what they need to be enabled to crush.

We haven't done it yet. It is one of my appeals and others to deliver these towers, missiles. And at least start with the training. And it's also a

signal to Russia. Putin is not yet militarily under pressure. He doesn't feel it. He still thinks he can win. He cannot. He will not. But as it is

so, he currently damages and destroys infrastructure and the civilian facilities in Ukraine.

SCIUTTO: Well, Michael Gahler, we appreciate you sharing Germany's view of this ongoing conflict. Thanks so much for joining.

GAHLER: Have a good evening.

SCIUTTO: Well, to the topic of Ukraine, Ukraine is warning international airlines that its drones are now closing Russian airspace. President

Volodymyr Zelenskyy says Kyiv is making Moscow pay for its ongoing invasion.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Today we want to warn every airline using Russian airspace, every insurer, and

everyone who continues to use key Russian airports. Russian airspace is becoming completely unsafe. Ukraine does not threaten civil aviation as

such or any civilian aircraft. It is simply that there will be drones in Russian airspace, and this must be taken into account.

Although the Russian authorities are not providing the necessary warnings, Russian airspace will de facto be closing. The war launched by Russia is

closing its own skies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: This, of course, follows Russia further intensifying its missile and drone attacks against Ukrainian cities. Today's air assaults killed at

least 12 people in the capital and the surrounding region. Many students in Ukraine are having to begin the new school year once again in underground

shelters. E.U. foreign policy chief, Kaja Kallas, has been urging countries to provide more air defense to Ukraine, saying, quote, "Some countries have

interceptors that will soon expire. This could be sent to Ukraine to help protect Ukrainian lives." We heard that just now from a German, member of

the European Parliament.

Well, joining me now is a member of Ukraine's Parliament, Halyna Yanchenko. Halyna, it's good to have you back. Thanks so much for joining.

HALYNA YANCHENKO, UKRAINIAN PARLIAMENT MEMBER: Hi, Jim. Nice to meet you.

SCIUTTO: So, first question, do you believe that Zelenskyy's threat to Russian airspace is a justified response to Russia's ongoing invasion and,

of course, its attacks on Kyiv, which, well, you've experienced many times yourself?

YANCHENKO: Yes, indeed. Actually, we don't have any air connection in Ukraine for four and a half years, since the beginning of full-scale

invasion in February of 2022. But the reason why, actually, Ukraine is considering, basically, closing this gap over Russia is not to have any

kind of revenge or anything like that, but to complicate the work of military machine of Russia.

Because, actually, a lot of spare parts for weapon that Russia produces for their missiles and all these drones that they produce together with Iran,

they actually deliver from China. For their missiles and all these drones that they produce together with Iran, they actually deliver from China. And

in order to speed up the delivery, they use air connection quite intensively.

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So, everything that Ukraine is doing is basically targeted to stop Russia and stop Russian military machine in order to complicate its work.

SCIUTTO: It's a good point that Ukraine's airspace has been closed for more than four years. I took one of those last flights into Kyiv right

before the invasion, so I know what you're talking about. Are you concerned at all that some of Ukraine's own partners, own allies, will accuse Ukraine

of putting Russian civilians in danger?

YANCHENKO: This is -- to me, it sounds, like, really funny. Because, once again, after all the war crimes that Russian occupants have been committing

in Ukraine, and I mean, everything, like, all types of things, from torturing civilians and kidnapping children, hundreds of Ukrainian children

from their parents on occupied territories, to basically targeting power plants and other critical infrastructure, leaving thousands of Ukrainian

families across the country without heat and electricity, and even opportunity to cook food, basically, just, you know, very, very basic

things, especially during the cold period of time, winter, et cetera. All this kind of things, they just seem, like, weird. All these arguments seem

weird to me.

I believe that the only way to end this war, and there is nothing else that Ukrainians want more, we want to end this war, but we understand that the

only way to end this war is actually to force the aggressor to end. By the way, this is something that President Trump has suggested earlier,

basically, peace through force or cohesion to peace.

We believe that this is a working strategy, because, once again, this war of aggression was started by Russia. This is not "Fifty Shades of Grey."

This is a very black and white war. There is a clear understanding of who is the aggressor, who has occupied a neighboring country, et cetera. So, if

Ukraine will be forced to stop, basically, protecting ourselves, our country will be simply occupied totally by Russians. But if Russians will

be stopped, the war will be stopped.

And this is something that we really want. And this is something that we really hope that the U.S. and other civilized countries across the world

will help us to achieve.

SCIUTTO: I want to know if you're hearing or seeing any progress on getting more of those crucial interceptor missiles to Ukraine to help

defend against these Russian ballistic missile attacks. I've heard multiple solutions come and go. Of course, there was this idea of the U.S. allowing

Ukraine to make them under license. The president withdrew that.

You're now hearing multiple European officials say there are countries in Europe that not only have them, they have them, and they're going to expire

next year. Send them now. Ukraine needs them now. Is anything moving in the right direction, in your view, to get more air defense?

YANCHENKO: There are numerous negotiations, and some of them give result. But, of course, there is a general problem, or I would call it a challenge,

around Patriot interceptor, so-called PAC-3 missiles. And the main challenge is very limited production capacity.

So, according to my information, Lockheed Martin, the producer of PAC-3 missiles, can only produce about 50 to 60 interceptors for Patriots a

month. And basically, Russia is throwing about 60 ballistic missiles on Ukraine, or might throw about 60 ballistics in Ukraine over a week. So,

definitely, there is a huge need, not only a need of Ukraine, but a global need to be sure that we can guarantee the global security. There is a need

to boost their production capacity.

And Ukraine is the country which really knows how to boost the defense capacity. But unfortunately, now we don't have a technology how to actually

produce the measles, specifically anti-ballistic measles.

[18:20:00]

SCIUTTO: Yes.

YANCHENKO: So, in this regard, it could be a good cooperation, both for Ukraine, but also for U.S.

SCIUTTO: Halyna Yanchenko, as I always say, I hope you have a safe evening there in Ukraine in the midst of all this.

YANCHENKO: Thank you, I appreciate it.

SCIUTTO: Well, still ahead, the global bond sell-off. Rising oil prices helping push yields higher in the U.S., Europe, and Asia. We'll discuss the

widening dangers to the global economy next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Welcome back. In today's Business Breakout, another weekday on Wall Street, U.S. stocks beginning September trading with across-the-board

losses as rising oil prices fuel new concerns about inflation. U.S. crude jumped more than 5 percent. Brent Crude, more than 4.5 percent. Brent now

trading near $95 a barrel after the latest flare-up in fighting between the U.S. and Iran.

The inflationary pressure of rising oil prices and the possibility of Fed interest rate hikes are helping to worsen the global bond sell-off. The

yield on the benchmark 10-year Treasury has hit its highest level since President Trump returned to office. 30-year yields are close to 20-year

highs.

Government bond yields also on the rise in Canada, Europe, and Asia. The yield on Japan's 10-year bonds hit 3 percent for the first time in 30

years. Some U.K. yields are at levels not seen since back in 1998. All of this is worrisome news for G20 finance ministers who've been holding talks

this week in the U.S. State of North Carolina. U.S. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent said this today about the bond market during an interview

with Fox Business.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT BESSENT, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: I don't think that we are in any kind of a dire situation. And as I said yesterday, the U.S. bond market has

been the best-performing bond market. What happens over a month doesn't matter, but for August it was. And since President Trump came into office,

since January 20, 2025, it's been the best-performing bond market among major countries in the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Joining me now is Lindsey Piegza, chief economist at Stifle Financial. I mean, Lindsey, just a fact check there, if 30-year yields are

at 20-year highs, how can what the U.S. treasury secretary is saying there be true?

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LINDSEY PIEGZA, CHIEF ECONOMIST, STIFEL FINANCIAL: Well, I think what he's getting at is right now the market is responding to a number of

longstanding structural issues, but it's also responding to near-term volatility as we continue to digest what's happening overseas and extreme

volatility in energy prices, which is largely contributing to a lot of the concerns and the backup in those longer-term yields.

SCIUTTO: Have the debt markets signaled that the Trump administration's interventions so far, going into the Japanese market, U.S. bond market, et

cetera, have failed and are likely to fail in the future?

PIEGZA: Well, again, I think what we're seeing, that the market reaction is a reflection of some of these longer-term structural changes, as I

mentioned, meaning this massive expansion of government debt, now over $40 trillion, and this growth in the government's balance sheet is not unique

to the U.S. We see this overseas as well. It's also reflecting the fact that we've allowed inflation to remain above the Fed's 2 percent target for

years.

So, market participants are now finally waking up to some of those factors. Then you layer on the inflationary implications of tariffs, the unknowns

from the global conflict overseas, resulting in an energy price shock. And there are some longstanding factors compounded by new coming build-upon

factors that are leading to this significant run-up in the longer end of the curve, not just in the U.S., but as you mentioned, global bond yields

rising.

SCIUTTO: So, is the only solution for the bond market, really, for countries to finally address their national data? Because, listen, it's

like global warming. Folks have been warning about this for years and decades, no one's really done anything about it here in the U.S., it just

keeps going up and up. I mean, is that really what needs to happen if you want to address this long-term?

PIEGZA: Well, I think long-term, yes. If we do want to address this, we have to come up with a longer-term solution. Otherwise, further growth in

the government's balance sheet will only beget further upward pressure on longer-term yields.

But in the near-term, we could see some backing off. If we do see some of the impact from tariffs roll off, if we do see cooler heads prevail in

terms of international negotiations and we see a near-term resolution to the conflict, we could see a significant repricing, a significant pullback

as a result of those factors. But longer-term, if we do want to see the yield curve remain more friendly and lower longer-term rates, it has to be

addressing the balance sheet of the federal government.

SCIUTTO: Kevin Warsh, got some pressure on him already. I mean, just with inflation long above the Fed's target of 2 percent, given all these

pressures, does it mean he's going to have to raise rates at the next session, perhaps more than once before the end of the year?

PIEGZA: Well, that's a different conversation because right now, the Fed is looking at some of these inflationary pressures and still considering

whether or not they are temporary or bringing back a favorite word for the Fed, transitory.

And if, in fact, it is viewed that once these impacts from tariffs roll off, once the conflict resolution comes to play and oil prices retreat from

these elevated levels, that inflation would begin to cool back down naturally, closer to that 2 percent level, there's still a number of

officials on the Fed that think the current stance of policy is appropriate. So, it does not necessarily paint a firm picture that the Fed

is going to hike anytime soon.

Now, Kevin Warsh did give a nod to the market and the market's concerns about inflation. He was very clear that inflation is currently elevated and

we haven't seen a lot of improvements in the near-term, but he stopped short of giving us a timeline for that improvement to set in before the Fed

hikes rates.

And so, it left us with this sense of, well, maybe it's not enough. Remember, the Fed has been tolerant of above target inflation for years.

And so, I'm not yet convinced that the committee is at a position where they're ready to pull the trigger. I would like to see them raise rates,

but I don't think the Fed is there quite yet.

SCIUTTO: Interesting stuff. I have to think that Jerome Powell still rues the day. He used that word transitory. We'll see if Kevin Warsh does

eventually as well. Lindsay Piegza, thanks so much for joining.

PIEGZA: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: U.S. Energy Secretary Chris Wright is reportedly heading to Venezuela to sign a highly controversial deal that would give the U.S.

access to some 65 billion barrels of Venezuela's oil, a fifth of that country's proven oil reserves.

[18:30:00]

Venezuela's ruling party-dominated National Assembly voted in favor of the agreement today. A U.S. official says that Chevron has agreed to expand its

operations in Venezuela as a result of this deal. The official characterized the signing, which is expected to take place on Wednesday, as

a U.S. agreement with a private Venezuelan entity. And the official says that because the deal involves a private company, a competitive bidding

process was not necessary.

However, a former Venezuelan government minister blasted the terms of the deal just last night on our show.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICARDO HAUSMANN, FORMER VENEZUELAN MINISTER OF PLANNING: Question is, why didn't they just -- if they were going to auction 17 oil fields, which is

what this is about, why didn't they just open it up for everybody to bid? Why do it with a shady company that actually the relationship is with the

government and this shady company, and then the shady company turns around with the U.S. government? This smells horribly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: We have extended invitations to a number of Venezuelan opposition members and leaders to come on the show to share their reactions to this

deal. We've also given them the opportunity to issue statements with reactions. In past interviews on this program, opposition members have

demanded transparency in any oil agreements with the U.S. and assurances that oil money will go to the Venezuelan people. As of yet, they have not

agreed to or shared comments in response.

We will bring you the latest from Nepal almost a week since the just devastated flooding there. Anderson Cooper will join us live from Nepal

just after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." I'm Jim Sciutto, and here are the international headlines we're watching today.

The U.S. is carrying out new strikes on Iran. U.S. Central Command says it is in response to recent attempted attacks against commercial shipping and

Strait of Hormuz, as well as U.S. forces deployed in the region.

[18:35:00]

Tehran claims the U.S. strikes hit a wedding party, killing at least four people including a child. Jordan says it has intercepted 10 missiles

launched by Iran.

In a CNN exclusive we're learning the Department of Homeland Security is planning a surge in its efforts to investigate alleged voter fraud in

certain states. CNN has reviewed internal federal guidance showing that efforts are accelerating as of today. Experts say there is no evidence of

widespread voter fraud in recent elections.

We are not at war but we are a daily target of hybrid attacks. Those are the words of Germany's interior minister today. Germany blaming Russia for

a drone attack targeting Leipzig Airport just last month. An explosive laden drone was found and defuse. But the incident caused disruptions and

sparked grave security concerns across Europe. Moscow is calling the accusation absurd.

In Nepal another new day begins. The U.N. is warning that contact has still not been made with some of the hardest hit areas after last week's floods.

A warning this next video is distressing.

New images giving yet one more horrifying glimpse of the very moment that flash flood hit a Nepali town. This one on the border with China's Tibet

region. Authorities in Nepal say now that more than 1,000 people have been confirmed killed. Some four and a half thousand people remain unaccounted

for. These images here show rescue workers operating in the depths of a Nepali hydropower tunnel. Hundreds of workers are feared to be trapped in a

network of tunnels like this one.

Overshadowing at all the threat of a new disaster. China says glaciers surrounding an impact crater in Nepal could still be at risk of collapsing.

We're going to go live now to Nepal where it is of course the early hours of the morning. Anderson Cooper is in Kathmandu. Anderson, it's so good to

have you there. And, you know, I've been watching your reporting you know for instance as you stand over an entire community that's been washed away.

I think it's hard for people understand not just the scale of the flooding itself but the aftermath. Can you help communicate that to people watching

right now?

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. Well, first of all, that first video you showed from town of Syabrubesi, I visited that that community just

yesterday. It's among the most hardest hit. It's very close. It's just 18 miles south of the border. And it was probably the fourth community to be

hit.

It is stunning. The entire lower market part of that town is just gone. And all along that river town after town anything near the water has just been

decimated. You really get a sense of it when you actually step on the ground. You know the ground is soft. It's several feet, in some cases,

many, many feet of this like liquid concrete. It's not just -- people think this is water, this wasn't just water, this was -- it literally like liquid

concrete moving at tremendous speeds. Very tall, you know, waves of it.

The foreign minister here who I just spoke to several hours ago talked about it as an inland tsunami. And that's pretty accurate, the impact of

this. And it's still being felt. I mean, all of these communities. It is now -- we're hours away from it being exactly seven days since this

disaster occurred. And as you know and as you've been reporting there are so many people here who are still waiting for word, hoping for word of

their loved ones who are still missing. And with each day that goes by that ache grows greater.

And as you said the tunnel systems here -- I visited two tunnel sites yesterday as well. That is a very complex operation. They are getting help

now from the Indian tunnel experts, the Indian army, as well as Chinese tunnel experts. But it is a very slow process. They have not had proof of

life at the two tunnel sites that I visited. But that work continues around the clock.

SCIUTTO: When you hear stories that there are entire communities many communities that rescue workers humanitarian workers have not even reached

yet a week after this tragedy. What is your sense of Nepal's and China's ability to respond to the urgent needs right now?

[18:40:00]

COOPER: Well, listen, I think Nepal -- I would be surprised if there's a lot of communities in Nepal that have not been reached by authorities here.

I mean, the helicopter operations that the Nepal military, the private pilots and choppers seconded to the government and the military have been

operating is -- I mean, it's nothing short of heroic what these pilots have been doing. Flying in this incredible narrow valley just above the water,

going back and forth, ferrying supplies, rescue workers, evacuating thousands of people, bringing out the remains of people, bringing out

bodies.

There are many people who are missing here. I think that says a lot more about the power of what this liquid concrete did. I think there's a lot of

people buried under this mass of liquid concrete, which is still out there. They don't have refrigeration capabilities that they would like to have.

That's one thing the foreign minister would very much like getting from neighboring countries, refrigeration capabilities, so families might have a

better chance of being able to identify their loved ones.

I can't speak to what's going on in China in terms of getting into -- you know, as you know, information has not been as the information has not been

coming out in the same way that we don't have foreign reporters. We don't have a lot of information coming out about the operations going on in

China, even just in terms of the death toll, the missing toll still there.

But Nepal has been very transparent about this as to the seems like to the best they can. And we've really been witnessing a lot of this in real time.

SCIUTTO: There's been a lot of talk, as you know, over the last couple of years about the reduction in U.S. foreign assistance programs. Are you

seeing a U.S. presence there, whether that be government or private sector and others doing their part?

COOPER: There's certainly a lot of, you know, American NGOs. I know World Central Kitchen is here. There are other groups who are working and trying

to do what they can. You know, early on in Nepal, you know, the foreign ministry did put out a statement essentially saying that they had -- you

know, had things in hand, this was in the very early days, and would not be asking for rescue crews to come in, sort of search and rescue crews. They

said that they had had some complications in the past when a lot of foreign rescue crews had descended in terms of organization and communication. And

so, they said that they thought they had it in hand.

Over the several days, clearly, with the tunnel operations, they then decided to reach out to India and to China. There was a South Korean team

that actually flew in the same day that I flew in, which I think was on Saturday. So -- or maybe it was Sunday. The -- so that -- there's been

criticism of the government here for not asking for expertise, rescue operators who had tunnel experience earlier. And they may push back on

that. And I talked to the foreign minister and he does push back on that. And you'll hear from him tonight on my program.

But it's a very complex operation. They do have really good -- I talked to the -- one of the Indian colonel who was operating very far up in the

north. And he's got like two doctorates in tunnels. He's a recognized expert.

So, there's a lot of people working very hard on this. But there's certainly been criticism about getting access to heavy earth moving

equipment earlier, some of the strategies that were used. There is a lot of now kind of talk about should stuff have happened faster regarding these

tunnels. But again, the two sites I visited, they have never had proof of life in the two tunnel complexes that I visited. And yet, they are still

going full bore trying to get in in the hopes that they can find people.

SCIUTTO: Yes, a lot of folks doing their best and I'm sure in danger to themselves. Anderson Cooper, our thanks to you and your team there.

COOPER: Thanks, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Well, back here in the U.S., a new twist in the murder trial of a mother who killed her three young children. The jury told the judge they

are deadlocked after four days of deliberations. What he instructed them and what that means for the rest of the trial, that's next.

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SCIUTTO: Well, the jury's done for the day and will return tomorrow in a closely watched murder trial of a Massachusetts mother who strangled her

three young children. A big question, though, is can that jury reach a verdict?

The defense says Lindsay Clancy suffered postpartum psychosis and should not be criminally responsible. Responsible prosecutors say she acted

rationally, intentionally and swiftly hours before they went home just a little earlier today. The jury of nine women and three men told the judge

they were deadlocked.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE WILLIAM SULLIVAN, MASSACHUSETTS SUPERIOR COURT: I brought you back out because I know that this was a long trial. All right. I know there were

over 80 witnesses. There were over 300 exhibits. And but because of that, I'm going to ask you to go back out, keeping in mind all the instructions

that I gave you to go out and to continue your deliberations at this time. All right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Joining us right now, Jeff Swartz, a former judge himself, former prosecutor as well and criminal defense attorney, teaches at the Cooley Law

School of Law in Florida. Jeff, good to have you. Listen, four days of deliberation, deadlock another day tomorrow. Should we be worried about a

hung jury here?

JEFF SWARTZ, FORMER FLORIDA JUDGE AND DISTINGUISHED PROFESSOR EMERITUS, COOLEY LAW SCHOOL: It depends on whether you want one or not, whether you

would worry. But, yes, that's more likely than not what's going to happen.

A normal Allen charge, which is what judges give to jurors when they say they're hung once or twice, is to say, go back there and listen to all of

your fellow jurors, listen to their point of view and assess it against what you're thinking and make sure you're not standing on some sort of

sense of pride and listen to the evidence and deliberate the way that I've instructed you.

They've now twice said they are hung. I anticipated this morning that's exactly what they would do, and they did. I think right now that they are

more likely than not, probably hopelessly hung. And it will be interesting after the announcement is made and the judge lets them go, how long it will

take for some of the jurors to speak to the press and tell us what the problem was and exactly what their numbers were.

SCIUTTO: Is there anything further a judge can do? I mean, are there any further instructions he could give them if they're deadlocked or has he

done just about as much as he can?

SWARTZ: I think pretty much at this point, having given an Allen charge and had told them twice now, please go back there. It's been a long trial.

Nobody wants to go through it again. That type of attitude, and he's making it clear, and very personably, by the way, I think that if they can't

follow that instruction now, it's hard to imagine they will be able to do it.

[18:50:00]

I don't know what the numbers are, but I think there are some people who are very fixed in their opinions, and I think it's going to be very

difficult after four days to break that log jam.

SCIUTTO: OK. So, if there is a hung jury, what then?

SWARTZ: Well, the decision has to be made by the state as to whether they want to try the case again. I think the numbers tell the story. Anywhere

from six to six and higher towards an acquittal or some other resolution, I think that the state's going to have to think twice about whether they want

to try the case. I don't think they do, and they're going to have to come up with some resolution that will be acceptable to the defense.

SCIUTTO: I mean --

SWARTZ: If it's on the other side of it, the defense probably is going to be forced to try the case again because they really have nothing to lose.

SCIUTTO: Right. I mean, what is the -- what's a plan B? What else could the prosecution offer short of another trial? Like what's the plan B?

SWARTZ: Well, that would be offering some sort of plea that would acknowledge responsibility for the deaths. In other words, she did it, but

not legal responsibility in that she did not have the state of mind, something that would result in her being placed in some form of mental

health facility for an extended period of time.

Because I think even if you find that she has dealt with the issues of postpartum depression, you still have the issue of dealing with what she

has done and whether in fact she is a danger to herself if you let her out. So, they could keep her locked up in some sort of mental facility for a

very long time. That type of resolution probably would be acceptable to the defense.

SCIUTTO: Jeffrey Swartz, always good to have you on. Thanks so much.

SWARTZ: Nice to see you, Jim. Have a good day.

SCIUTTO: And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: A change of the guard at a multi-trillion-dollar company. Tim Cook is stepping down as Apple's CEO after 15 years at the helm of one of

the most valuable and most recognized companies in the world. Cook, of course, had big shoes to fill when he took over in 2011. His predecessor,

Steve Jobs, widely recognized as a global innovator many years ahead of his time. Yet, Cook has forged his own path, catapulting Apple to yet new

heights. He will be remembered most for making the iPhone an even bigger part of our daily lives.

As the John Ternus era begins today, it is the hardware engineer who has big shoes to fill. He'll have his first big moment as CEO, just days from

now, when Apple is set to reveal some big changes to its smartphones.

[18:55:00]

Ternus also has to steer the company through other challenges, including, of course, the big question for so many companies, how to embrace

artificial intelligence.

Thanks so much for joining us today. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. You've been watching "The Brief." Please do stay with CNN.

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