Return to Transcripts main page

The Brief with Jim Sciutto

CNN International: Trump On A.I.: Self-Regulations Is Very Important; U.S. Ban On $1 Billion In Canadian Goods Takes Effect; More Than 100 Israeli Settlers Attack West Bank Village; E.U. Considers NATO-Style Response To Russian Hybrid Attacks; Premier League Finds Man City Guilty Of Financial Wrongdoing. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired September 29, 2026 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:00:18]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington and

you're watching The Brief.

Just ahead this hour, at the White House, full steam ahead on A.I. as President Trump meets with top A.I. executives. He says the industry can

police itself.

From bikes to booze, the U.S.-Canada trade war kicks up a gear as Washington bans a billion dollars worth of Canadian imports.

And in soccer, the English Premier League outlines Manchester City's alleged breach of rules and sham dealings. That story and many more coming

up.

We begin at the White House, where President Trump met with A.I. executives today, including NVIDIA's Jensen Huang, Anthropic's Dario Amodei, and

Meta's Mark Zuckerberg. The President says he will name an A.I. czar within three or four days. He also continues to downplay the prospect of any

government regulation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's very hard for somebody to come outside, get into these. These models are very complex. And again,

I believe they're going to be used for the good. And when they're not, we're going to be able to nab them. But there's going to be a tremendous

self-policing aspect.

We're also thinking about forming a committee of sorts where we put maybe 10 people on that committee. It could be from that group so that we can --

so the committee can watch over the whole enterprise.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Call it the A.I. Board of Peace. Ahead of the meeting, the President unveiled a new A.I. power tool called America.gov. The web site

says it serves as 29,000 web sites in one to get simple answers from government sources. Joining me now is Kristen Holmes. So, Kristen, the

contradiction, right, is that many of these A.I. executives themselves are saying self-policing is not enough. They want regulation guardrails, et

cetera. The President's not interested. So they all came out of this meeting happy, you know, smiling, et cetera. Did the President change their

view or are they just sort of given up?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It's unclear if he changed their view or not. We certainly heard from Anthropic CEO Dario

Amodei, who has been one of the loudest voices raising flags about A.I. And he did not sound completely convinced that everything was kumbaya.

He said there are still enormous risks when it comes to A.I. So now we know that these tech leaders and President Trump kind of signed these principles

of self-policing. And we heard from Meta's Mark Zuckerberg, who kind of described what this is going to look like. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK ZUCKERBERG, CEO, META: We drafted a set of principles and commitments around building robust internal controls and detecting if there are any

issues with the technology, coupled with multiple layers of auditing and controls, starting with internal risk review, external auditors and

evaluators, and agreeing that we're going to have all of our boards of directors independently review the reports that come from the auditors.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: So obviously there's some questions about who is on this external board of trustees, I understand, or external board that was going to review

the outpouring of this versus the internal board. It didn't sound like any of this was government related. I specifically asked, noting that 71

percent of Americans think the federal government is not doing enough right now to regulate A.I. President Trump dodged that question when I asked

specifically what was your message to the American people, as you continue to say, President Trump, that there are no guardrails.

And he essentially said that these companies are doing a lot, which was not really an answer to the question of what's your message to the American

people who are concerned about federal regulations on artificial intelligence. He also said that he was renaming artificial intelligence to

super intelligence. I mean, this goes back to something that I had heard from some of Trump's top advisers weeks ago, which was this idea that A.I.

is not being sold the correct way to the general public.

So clearly they're doing some sort of a rebrand here. Now, it was clear President Trump did not change his mind that he does not want guardrails.

He talked a lot about President Xi, about China, about the race in A.I., and not wanting to get behind or be slowed down by these guardrails. It'll

be interesting to see what we actually hear from some of these CEOs as this goes into practice. It's still unclear what it actually looks like.

[18:05:00]

SCIUTTO: Very much so. Kristen Holmes at the White House, thanks so much.

Well, all this as we hear even more warnings about the safety or lack of it for A.I. Reuters reports that Anthropic says its A.I. models could pose, "A

catastrophic or existential risk to humanity." Those words were in its IPO filing. The company adding that its models can resist external shutdown.

Its rival, OpenAI, has decided not to release a new A.I. model, GPT 6.1 Astra, saying it did not meet the bar for safety.

Joining me now is Lance Ulanoff, TechRadar editor-at-large. Lance, lots of questions for you here. I mean, what happens now, right, with regulation?

First, we don't have to go through the long history of industry proving itself in multiple industries, not capable or really interested in policing

itself. But here you have an industry that is asking for regulation.

But the President convinced it's not necessary. You do have states with a difference of opinion here. So what happens? Was this the final word today

from the White House?

LANCE ULANOFF, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, TECHRADAR: Well, it's their final word in that they don't want to regulate it, really. But, you know, this is really

-- this is a global technology. As with so many things, digital borders don't mean much. You know, this technology can jump over sandboxes, can

jump over fences, it can jump over borders.

And it is. That's what's going to happen. The entire world in this particular China, they're working on this at the same time. If we're not

all following the same rules, then there really are no rules that really matter. And, you know, self-policing is a step, but it is not a framework

that goes around the world that everybody says, you know, the way you have a nuclear framework, it's not like that. And so things are going to keep

moving at pace and we don't really have an understandable plan yet.

SCIUTTO: Yes, it's not an A.I. non-proliferation treaty or something like that. Those things are much harder to come to come about. The language and

the contrast, here you have Anthropic about to launch the largest IPO in history, which means a lot of people willing to pay a lot of money for a

piece of that company here. But at the same time, it's IPO filing, it says its technology may pose existential risk to humanity. I mean, how can those

two things exist in the same space? Investors just don't care.

ULANOFF: First of all, it's not the first time. It's not the first time I've read a tough risk assessment in an IPO. I mean, that's the companies

talk about failure. They talk about all the worst things that can happen. And in the case of A.I., well, they had to go the full length. They had to

go the full measure and say this is the absolute worst that could happen, which is probably the last thing they should have done or really wanted to

do.

But I guess they had to. But there is some truth in this that we're getting to the point where we don't entirely understand what we're working with. I

mean, all of the situations that have happened over the summer, it's things that they didn't anticipate that the A.I. would do. And it's, you know,

cases of recursive self-improvement, you know, where it's making itself better so it can get the job done better and in ways in which humans might

not always understand when these tools are starting to talk to each other in their own language.

I mean, it becomes a black box. And that's the concern. And it's, you know, I always try and balance this because I do believe there's real potential

here. We see it all the time. But it's kind of this speeding thing that we can't try and get the benefit out of it while you're running alongside a

speeding car that might hit a wall. I mean, you just -- you feel like you don't have complete control.

SCIUTTO: I mean, you have one of the companies even saying that the tools might not be vulnerable to a shutdown switch. So the whole idea, oh, just

shut it down if there's a problem. They might resist that or we just don't know.

ULANOFF: Well, well, think about it this way. You know, the way and the way in which a lot of these A.I. models work is that they're given goals,

especially as they're being tested. Here's your goal. And so then they work to achieve the goal. And if your action contradicts the goal, well, they'll

find a way around it because they've been given the goal.

That's what they -- they have no self-interest. They simply want to achieve what they've been told to achieve. And they will do it, as we've seen, in

whatever way is possible. So I'm not surprised to hear that. I think this is where these bodies, these governing and regulatory bodies inside and

outside, have to start to work to put safety first in the development so that these things cannot happen, if it's not too late to do that.

SCIUTTO: So the President signed an executive order today. Let's be frank, he signs a lot of them. Now rebranding A.I. to S.I. and you saw Mark

Zuckerberg follow along. I mean, is anybody -- is the industry going to follow that directive?

[18:09:56]

ULANOFF: Well, you know, we don't own this thing. An A.I. is not something that just arrived with his presidency, right? It's -- you know, I've been

covering it for probably at least 20 years. Generative A.I. is relatively new. There is this concept of super intelligence. But to rebrand artificial

intelligence as super space intelligence doesn't make any sense. This is proliferated.

Again, it's around the world. The U.S. doesn't own it. He can't rename it. It is stunning to me, constantly stunning to me that these tech leaders are

falling in line behind this stuff, which is patently ridiculous because it is going to cause nothing but confusion.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And one might say not focused on the real issue at this point, right? Because it's not a labeling issue that these --

ULANOFF: Hundred percent.

SCIUTTO: -- A.I. folks are talking about. They're talking about danger.

ULANOFF: But rebranding thing, I know why they did it for rebranding. So we all feel better about it. I don't feel better.

SCIUTTO: Well, Lance, thanks so much for joining. Let's keep talking about it.

Still ahead, no end in sight to the U.S.-Canada trade war. A U.S. ban on Canadian alcohol imports now in effect. What actor turned vodka distiller

Dan Aykroyd tells me he'd do to solve the next trade war.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Welcome back in today's business breakout. A mostly lower day on Wall Street, stocks pressured once again by rising bond yields with the 30-

year U.S. Treasury yield hitting a 24-year high. Oil fell, and new data shows Saudi Arabia's pipeline operations ramping up again after recent

attacks by Iranian-backed groups.

President Trump's ban on roughly a billion dollars in Canadian goods took effect today. The ban affects a wide range of imports, including alcohol,

motorcycles and dairy products. The impact will not be felt right away because companies anticipating the move have been stocking up on goods on

that list. But it shows how far apart both sides remain amid a worsening trade war forcing Ottawa to look for alternative markets outside the U.S.

I spoke earlier today with actor Dan Aykroyd, who is the founder of Canada's Crystal Head Vodka company. He says the company might have to shut

down because of the new import ban. He is urging the leaders of both countries to sit down across from each other and settle their differences.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[18:15:07]

DAN AYKROYD, FOUNDER, CRYSTAL HEAD VODKA: You know what? I think all of the bureaucrats and all of the executives in government that they have over

these tables, 30 people across from each other at a table, get them out of the room and get the two men in place there. Mark Carney, brilliant, Bank

of Canada, Bank of England economist, smart. And Trump, who is, you know, one of the greatest deal makers of our time, if you look at the way he has

been able to use opportunities for his own benefit.

That can be a great deal for anyone who knows how to pull it off and the power to do it. They should get in the room and they should talk. And, oh,

excuse me. Hello, Mr. President. Yes, no, that's not a rumor. If we can work out this tariff thing, I will bring my Canadian vodka down, cases of

it, for the opening of your ballroom, and I'll throw in the Blues Brothers opening for Jay-Z. So let's work it out. It could be a beautiful night.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: I mean, he'll throw in the Blues Brothers opening for Jay-Z. Andrew DiCapua joins me now, principal economist at the Canadian Chamber of

Commerce. Andrew, you've been watching this very closely here. And listen, it's getting visceral, right, because President Trump is not just imposing

tariffs, right? He's attacking Canada. There's all the 51st State talk. He is describing it as a lousy ally. Do you see a negotiation out of this,

right? I mean, getting the two sides across the table and just coming to numbers that they can agree on. Or is that past?

ANDREW DICAPUA, PRINCIPAL ECONOMIST, CANADIAN CHAMBER OF COMMERCE: Well, first of all, good to be with you, Jim, and I love the energy there from

Dan. You know, I mean, this is serious, right? Businesses like his could be shut down. This, you know, latest move by President Trump is a very blunt

tool that the President has to ban imports. You know, it's about a billion, just over a billion dollars of Canadian exports down to the United States.

It's not going to impact the overall economy that much.

But these individual businesses that are impacted by those products are, you know, going to have to face tough, tough times and have to make tough

decisions, right. It's not like a tariff where maybe you can negotiate with the buyer to share those costs. They can't even enter the country.

SCIUTTO: Trump says he's expecting Canada to sit down and come to a deal with the U.S. And it's not the first time he's said that. Do you see that

at all? Because when I hear Mark Carney's comments, he talks about a broken relationship. He's quite actively looking to expand trade with Europe, even

with China. I mean, you have Canadian consumers. They've got to vote, too. I mean, they've just voluntarily stopped buying U.S. bourbon, you know,

whiskey, et cetera. Do you see the prospect of real progress in the negotiations?

DICAPUA: Well, I think in recent weeks we've seen at least the temperature come down a little bit. You know, the President has mentioned on a number

of occasions that he sees, you know, the government of Canada coming and making a deal. Now, from what I hear, you know, both from the federal

government in Canada and the Trump administration, no one's waiting by their cell phones to pick up the phone, and no one's making the call. So

that is concerning. The business community wants both sides to get to the table.

And I think, you know, both sides are playing a little bit hard to get here. And I think we've got to, you know, get a deal, move towards a deal,

and show some progress. So, you know, we're increasing costs on ourselves. This is not a popular move for consumers. You know, U.S. consumer

confidence reached, you know, a multiyear low coming out today from the conference board. So this isn't a popular policy, but nonetheless is one

that the Trump administration wants to take.

SCIUTTO: We've seen Canada retaliate with its own terrorist ban, alcohol in some provinces. And, of course, you have people making their own decisions

about what they buy and what they don't. Still, the U.S. is a much larger economy, and President Trump knows that and appears willing to use that to

break Canada. But do Canadian companies and do Canadian lawmakers believe they have some leverage of their own, or do they feel outmatched?

DICAPUA: Well, we cannot do a tit-for-tat tariff scenario with the United States, right? Canada, you know, retaliated against the United States in

retaliation of the tariffs that were imposed. So we're in a tit-for-tat situation, and we can't get our way out of that. Now, there has been

pressure from the Carney government to at least show some strength.

[18:19:59]

Now, one thing I'll say is that the Carney government has been trying to control what we can control, create better business conditions in Canada.

Just today, we had a $30 billion LNG announcement off the west coast of the country to diversify our exports. So a strong Canada is good for the United

States, and a strong America is good for Canada. Regardless of what happens, we will still be each other's -- we will still be significant

trading partners with each other. And so that's why it's vital to get back to getting a deal.

SCIUTTO: Andrew DiCapua, we appreciate you joining.

DICAPUA: Thanks very much, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Checking some of today's other business headlines now. President Trump's 100 percent tariffs on some pharmaceutical products and ingredients

are now in effect. The President announced tariffs back in April. They are expected to affect more than 100 drug makers. However, exemptions will

reduce the larger impact. Big pharmaceutical firms that have agreed to boost production inside the U.S. can avoid those tariffs completely.

Smart ringmaker Aura is delaying its Wall Street IPO, citing market uncertainty. It's the latest in a growing list of companies pulling their

IPOs as borrowing costs rise. Aura says it's making the move even though it was seeing strong demand for its shares. The U.S. IPO market had a solid

start to the year but has weakened since amid that bond market uncertainty.

Six Flags Entertainment is shutting down its most famous roller coaster after seeing an investigation linked to a long history of injuries and even

deaths. Six Flags executive says the ride has consistently passed a multitude of safety tests. Even so, he said shutting it down for good was

still the right thing to do. Attorneys suing the park say more than 100 people claim to have suffered brain injuries from riding the California

roller coaster in just the last two years.

In France, tens of thousands of people took to the streets to demonstrate against planned budget cuts ahead of next year's presidential election. The

protesters included civil servants and high school students who blockaded dozens of schools. Melissa Bell has the story.

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Social unrest has returned to the streets of France for the first time in a while. This over the government's budget

for 2027 that freezes public service sector wages in 2027. What these unions and there's been a rare showing of solidarity between the unions,

they've all gone together to take part in this protest, in this strike and in this march, is the idea that these wages will remain fixed when the cost

of living continues to grow.

I think one of the most noteworthy things beyond the teachers and hospital workers and railway workers that we've seen out on the streets has been the

huge presence of firefighters. Many thousands of them took to the streets in Paris today after a meeting they had with France's interior minister.

What they're asking for is not so much a hike in wages as the raising of the resources at their disposal as they seek to take on these wildfires

that as we saw this summer are becoming more and more frequent here in France.

This protest about public sector wages has seen tens of thousands come out on the streets. There's been disruptions to schools, to railways and to air

traffic control. The big question how the government over the next few weeks continues to try and get this budget through without causing too much

more of this.

Melissa Bell, CNN, Paris.

[18:23:38]

SCIUTTO: Just ahead on The Brief, more than 100 Israeli settlers attacked a village in the occupied West Bank setting fire, you see there, to a

Palestinian family's home.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Welcome back to The Brief. I'm Jim Sciutto. And here are the international headlines we're watching today.

Tech executives assigned what they called a statement of principles on A.I. at the White House. The voluntary agreement includes commitments described

as self-policing by President Trump. He has downplayed the prospect of any dangers from A.I. or the need for heavy regulation. He says that would

benefit China. President Trump says he will name an A.I. czar, however, in the coming days.

The Supreme Court is letting the U.S. President resume a controversial deportation program. The program allows migrants to be removed to countries

other than their home country without giving them the chance to raise any human rights concerns. While the program can go ahead for now, the Supreme

Court says it will hear arguments on the case in December with a final decision expected next year. Many tens of thousands have already been sent

out of the country.

Lindsay Clancy was back in court today for the first time since her murder trial ended in a hung jury. The judge told parties to be ready to discuss a

date for a new trial at their next hearing. Clancy has pleaded not guilty to murdering her three children, arguing she had postpartum psychosis. A

judge declared a mistrial earlier this month after one jury -- juror prevented a unanimous verdict of not guilty.

In the West Bank, more than 100 Israeli settlers attacked a Palestinian family overnight, storming their home and setting it on fire. Israeli

forces were on the scene, ordered by a court to escort the family back to their home. The IDF says settlers threw rocks at security forces, attacking

them as well. Several of those officers were injured. Jeremy Diamond has the story from Jerusalem.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Just over two months ago, the Tubasi family were driven from their home in the occupied West Bank by a

group of Israeli settlers. Then, Monday night into Tuesday, the Israeli military finally escorted the Tubasi family back to their home, following

an order by the Israeli Supreme Court.

But moments after they arrived at their home, which they found had been damaged by the Israeli settlers, and they came under attack once again,

more than 100 Israeli settlers stormed the area, pelting the home with stones. Some of them actually stormed into the house and attacked the

family, as well as Israeli border police officers who were on the scene.

Some of the settlers even set the home on fire, as well as a car that belonged to the family. The family had to be escorted out of the area in an

armored vehicle by the Israeli military. This is, of course, just the latest instance of settler violence which has been exploding across the

west bank in recent months. The Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, condemned the violence, but once again he sought to downplay it,

attributing this violence to the actions of a, "handful of rioters," even though the Israeli military itself said that there were more than 100

Israeli settlers involved in this attack.

[18:30:10]

Of those, only two of the settlers were actually apprehended by Israeli authorities. And what's happening in the West Bank is one of several issues

driving the campaign in Israel right now. At the heart of it, of course, right now, is this issue of what Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was told

what he knew and what he failed to act on in the days leading up to the October 7th, 2023 attacks on Israel.

His former Shin Bet director, Israel's domestic intelligence service, says he is now going to sue the Israeli prime minister for defamation after

Netanyahu tried to shift blame for the warnings before October 7th to this former Shin Bet director, Ronen Bar. Bar is now firing back, saying that

the Israeli prime minister was warned of a, "impending disaster in an unprecedented manner ahead of that attack."

Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Jerusalem.

SCIUTTO: Joining me now, former U.S. State Department Middle East negotiator Aaron David Miller. Aaron, good to have you. It's interesting

because, of course, we have this clear policy in the West Bank because it's not a handful of rioters. This has been part of a pattern for years under

Netanyahu's leadership. The opposition for Netanyahu in these upcoming elections, he is saying it's the result of a dangerous policy.

And just yesterday, I spoke to the Palestinian ambassador to the U.N., and he said he sees the possibility that these elections might change policies

like that. I want to play his sound and see if you agree on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RIYAD MANSOUR, PALESTINIAN AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: If there is a new government in Israel different than the government led by Prime Minister Netanyahu,

there will be possibilities and opportunities for opening a new door.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Do you share that, hope?

AARON DAVID MILLER, FORMER U.S. STATE DEPT. MIDDLE EAST NEGOTIATOR: You know, when it comes to Israeli politics, Jim, right now, the polls have

been pretty consistent, that neither the opposition nor the current coalition has 60 plus one. And the reality is we've seen this movie before.

It's Washington repeat between 2018 and 2022, when the Netanyahu government was inaugurated. By the way, Jim, the only Israeli government since 1988 to

go to term. You ended up with four elections in five years, with Netanyahu remaining as the caretaker prime minister.

Are things different here? Well, the circumstances are clearly different. I think there's a reasonable chance the opposition, if they decide to reach

out to the one Arab party, Mansour Abbas's Ra'am, which has accepted the idea of a Jewish democratic state, that, yes, after 16 out of the last 17

years, you could literally end up seeing a new Israeli government that is sort of right of center, center, and left of center.

And then, as your Palestinian interlocutor suggested, I think one of the initial steps, one of the most important, would be to crack down on settler

violence and terror. Jim, think about this. Between 1996 and 2022, one new settlement was approved by a series of Israeli governments. Since 2022, in

four years, you have 104 new settlements, with 250 more, actually, illegal outposts. So what you've seen on the West Bank estimates three to 500 young

hilltop youth, anywhere from 13 to 19, encouraged by radical rabbis.

No law enforcement, since most of it has shifted from the Israeli defense forces to Itamar Ben-Gvir's police. And he and Bezalel Smotrich are

encouraging the intimidation and the displacement of Palestinians.

SCIUTTO: Right. There has been new international pressure from Europe in particular, including trade bans. Of course, the U.S. not taking part,

condemning some of that. Does that matter? Is that a leverage point?

MILLER: I mean, I think it matters, but even the sanctions against the settlements, Jim, there's a five to nine month grace period, I think, that

the Brits have imposed. The Germans have not joined the French and the British, which are the only three countries I think that matter to the

Israelis.

And, you know, in an odd way, paradoxically, I think it strengthens Netanyahu's case that the world is against us. And only I, Benjamin

Netanyahu, has the will and the skill to manage the U.S.-Israeli relationship and to keep Israel's enemies at bay. Has it changed Israeli

policy one iota? No.

[18:35:02]

SCIUTTO: I want to ask you, if I can, just about the Iran war, because the administration is claiming something of a victory in that oil exports

shipping through the Strait of Hormuz is beginning to approach, under the under the protection of this U.S. Navy operation, pre-war levels. You got

that Saudi pipeline. It seems to be operating again. Can they claim something of a victory there or is that just returning to the previous

status quo?

MILLER: Well, I think the Navy can claim operational successes and maybe insurance companies are willing to do risk now what they weren't prepared

to risk several months ago. But you're still short of seven, 8 million barrels of oil. And remember, any piece of oil infrastructure that's above

ground, including the East West pipeline, can be easily undermined and taken offline by relatively cheap drones. This was the case with the pro-

Iranian militias who apparently struck the East West pipeline from Iraq.

So, look, if you consider it a victory to reopen partially or even completely, the Strait of Hormuz, which were free and unfettered on

February 28th, it raises the rather absurd and logical question, what was the point of the war? If all they're claiming is that maybe we're going

back to status quo ante, look at the cost, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes, yes.

MILLER: And the Iranians have, you know, have basically their new nuclear weapon, assuming they're not working actually to produce one, is the fact

that any time they want for a few days or a few weekend, they can, with relatively inexpensive drones, halt shipping and raise insurance prices. So

is it a victory? Yes, the U.S. Navy should be credited with operational successes. It doesn't answer the mail of what this war was all about or

where it's going.

SCIUTTO: Aaron David Miller, thanks so much, as always.

MILLER: Great to be with you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: NATO gives Russia a new warning about its expanding hybrid attacks on Europe. My conversation with a former supreme -- NATO supreme allied

commander, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:06]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back. NATO says it will increase its support for Ukraine as Russia's hybrid war on Europe expands.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK RUTTE, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: Russia continues its reckless campaign of hostile actions against NATO allies. It is trying to weaken our resolve

and stop our support for Ukraine. But Russia is failing. It is failing on the battlefield in Ukraine and it is failing to undermine our unity and

support for Ukraine. Our message to Moscow is clear. We will do even more for Ukraine and not less.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Estonia is now publicly blaming Russia for setting a fire last month at a defense company which supplies equipment to Ukraine. The head of

Estonia's security service said, "Russia continues to seek opportunities to conduct acts of sabotage and other hostile activities across Europe."

Moscow has denied responsibility.

The E.U. is now considering a collective NATO style response to Russia's hybrid war. Earlier, I asked former U.S. ambassador to NATO Kurt Volker

about Europe's approach so far to Russian aggression.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KURT VOLKER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO: As long as Russia sees that we are not responding, we are not acting, we are not causing any penalties or

costs for Russia, they will keep escalating these things. So we've seen -- we just heard the story about the arson in Estonia. We had an armed drone

at Leipzig Airport in Germany.

And what does Germany do? They close a cultural center for Russia. We've had an allegation of a bomb on a train in France. We've had a missile land

in Poland. We've had drones go into an apartment building in Romania. We've had other drones in other NATO countries, drones around Copenhagen Airport,

Russian ships cutting cables in the Baltic Sea. So this has escalated and escalated.

And as long as we keep saying, oh, not an inch, not an inch, but don't do anything, Russia will keep going.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: General Wesley Clark was NATO's supreme allied commander, now founder of Renew America Together. And I wonder, General Clark, you hear

Ambassador Volker there, who I know you know well. Do you agree that NATO or Europe without the U.S., it seems, needs to do more rather than say

more?

GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET.), FORMER NATO SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER: Yes, I do agree. I think Ambassador Volker laid it out very clearly. Russia is taking

action and it's going to continue to take action. And Jim, it's not even clear what Russia's real intent is. But something like this is designed to

undercut NATO unity, to confuse the public and to prepare the way for major Russian military action, which some people believe might be on the horizon.

And so when you look at this, I hear people in Europe talking about deterrence, as though all NATO has to do is put its dukes up and Russia

will fall back. But Vladimir Putin appears to have a plan. And so in the American system, we call it intelligence preparation of the battlefield. We

don't go into an attack without planning and preparing the battlefield.

Well, that's what he's doing to NATO. He's preparing the battlefield. He's showing the fecklessness of NATO leadership. He's confusing the public.

He's penetrating defenses. He's doing collecting, you know, reconnaissance and finding out how NATO responds. It's a preparation for something that's

pretty ominous out there.

SCIUTTO: Tell me what that is, because, as you know, there's some disagreement about exactly how far Russia would go, because there are some

in Europe who say, listen, for all the bark, right, Russia doesn't have the bite. It's bogged down in Ukraine. It really couldn't take on a NATO

country right now. But you seem to question that.

CLARK: Well, I think it is a question, Jim, that has to be asked, because, you know, even before Russia went into Ukraine in 2022, there were those in

Europe who said, no, it's not going to happen. They discounted the intelligence. I think you have to take Putin seriously when he says he

wants to, you know, restore the Soviet Union's territory and control. And what we see is Russian activities in North Norway. Russian activities

opposite Finland. Russian activities opposite Lithuania and the Suwalki Gap. Russia activities opposite Latvia.

So as well as all the incidents that Kurt Volker explained, there are buildups. There are preparations being made and there are indications. So

you have to take these indications and warnings seriously. Can they be deterred? Perhaps, but only if NATO is resolute and without American

leadership, NATO is not resolute. And if you continue to believe that you can give blandishments to Putin and say, look, here's a much better way.

Let's make money together. This is a misunderstanding of the way Putin has approached his role as senior statesman and great Russian restorer of the

Soviet Union.

[18:45:29]

He wants an empire back. He's got plenty of money already. So he plays with the West. He knows our values. He plays with our negotiators. He

understands what motivates them. He's a superb intelligence action officer. And he's got right now the greatest intelligence play in the 20th century

and 21st century right now unfolding against Europe.

SCIUTTO: Without U.S. leadership on this, right, I mean, the U.S. has already reduced almost to zero its military support to Ukraine. The

President both sides this war every day. And on the hybrid war against Europe, the U.S. is effectively absent, at least at the top, right? Does

Putin view that as an invitation to expand it?

CLARK: Well, I think he views that this is an opportune time to move forward with his plan. And I think there are some in the United States who

believe that the best thing to do is just get out of the way and go ahead and fall back to the Western Hemisphere and leave Europe to its own

devices. And I think that's just a tragic misunderstanding of America's national interest. But this is the dilemma, because those in Europe that I

talk to, they don't see America as a strong force for democracy and freedom and transatlantic unity today. They see something else going on.

So I think we're in a position where Putin might very well decide that this is the time to move. And that's the Baltics, maybe Finland, maybe Moldova

pushing against Romania. Who knows what he has in mind, but shattering NATO and then forcing a U.S. withdrawal. And Jim, we're already looking at

what's happening in the Middle East. We've just announced our withdrawal from Iraq today.

Iran says great victory. They won. So, you know, U.S. prosperity, the U.S. dollar, everything has been dependent on the U.S. security guarantee. And

when we fall back and don't provide, we're really we're providing a pathway for a real reduction in American influence and well-being in the world.

SCIUTTO: The world notices. General Wesley Clark, thanks so much.

CLARK: Thank you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Well, we're going to hear from one of the countries on the front line of this hybrid war in Europe. Lithuania's prime minister will join me

on Wednesday's edition of The Brief.

The British prime minister is promising to stand up to any threat his country faces, including from Russia and Iran. Andy Burnham made the

pointed remarks at the annual conference of the British Labour Party, his first as leader.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDY BURNHAM, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: A country like that will be much more resilient to the shocks we will undoubtedly face in the rest of this

century and more able to meet its NATO obligations on defense. This leadership we are showing at home will be matched on the international

stage. I will be steadfast in my support for Ukraine and stand up to threats wherever they come from, whether Russia, Iran or anywhere.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: The comments follow an alleged terrorist threat in an airbase in England used by the U.S. military for the war in Iran. Top U.S. diplomat is

joining the President in questioning how the U.K. is handling that investigation. British counterterrorism police say they found no explosives

at the scene near RAF Fairford, a base those U.S. bombers used for missions against Iran. Five men were arrested on Sunday but later released on bail.

Secretary of State Marco Rubio insists a foreign actor was involved but gave no further details.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCO RUBIO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Suffice it to say that what happened, what almost happened, what could have happened in the U.K. over the weekend

is a very serious situation. It's one that clearly involves the hands of a foreign actor. I won't get into great detail about that yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[18:49:40]

SCIUTTO: Still coming up on The Brief, the Premier League finds Manchester City guilty of financial wrongdoing. We'll explain the details in just a

moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: A seismic ruling in club football. The Premier League says Manchester City is guilty of violating dozens of financial rules. An

independent panel found that the team arranged sham contracts with commercial partners worth more than a billion dollars.

It's not clear exactly what penalties Man City will now face, if any. The club has consistently denied wrongdoing. Don Riddell joins me now. So you

and I spoke about this last week when we heard this bubbling up. So what did we learn now about the specifics of these sham investments in this $1

billion? Not a small amount of money.

DON RIDDELL, CNN WORLD SPORT: No, I mean, the whole thing is quite extraordinary. So, yes, I mean, this story was kind of leaked towards the

end of last week. Today we got our eyes on the details. It's a 40-page document with some redactions. The word sham was used eight times. And

basically, this lays out the case against Manchester City, which the Premier League and the Independent Commission says the club is guilty of.

The seasons in question are 2009 through to 2018. In that time, City won the first of their Premier League titles. They won two more during that

period, plus a total of eight trophies. The sham contracts refer to the way in which they were basically able to hide 830 million pounds in sponsorship

funding. They also were able to hide another $90 million in expenses, which enabled them to invest far more than they should have been in their playing

staff.

They misstated their accounts. They concealed the true state of their finances from auditors and football regulators. And City were also accused

of basically not cooperating and even lying to the investigation. And that is why this whole thing has dragged on for years and years and years. As

you say, Jim, Manchester City have always denied it. And a short time ago, their CEO, Ferran Soriano, came out with a pretty defiant stance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FERRAN SORIANO, MANCHESTER CITY CEO: The whole Premier League case against us is based on a single false accusation. That the owner's personal money

was somehow and secretly put into the club via some sponsors from Abu Dhabi. This is just not true.

Irrefutable evidence has been provided to the Premier League Commission that shows that it could not happen and that it did not happen. The Premier

League Commission has issued an opinion that supports the Premier League's conspiracy theory.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RIDDELL: Well, it's going to be interesting to see what happens next, because the evidence on the material he's referring to has presumably

already been seen and evaluated by the Premier League. City say they will appeal. They have until Friday, this Friday, October the 2nd, to do so. And

we'll see what happens after that.

But if the Premier League sticks to its guns, some pretty severe penalties could be coming. Potentially fines, points deductions or even an expulsion

from the Premier League. Jim?

[18:55:02]

SCIUTTO: Wow. Expulsion from the Premier League. Losing all those titles. I mean, there's a lot on the table there. Don Riddell, thanks so much. And

thanks so much to all of you for joining us today. I'm Jim Sciutto. You've been watching The Brief. Please do stay with CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

END