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The Brief with Jim Sciutto
CNN International: Flydubai Passenger Describes Fight with Attacker; British-Iranian Man Arrested Over U.K. Base Incident; Global Bonds Sell Off as Investors Brace for Higher Rates; Paramount-Warner Bros. Merger to Close Oct. 6; Woman Survives Two Lethal Injections; CNN Investigates Stake in Firm Linked to Israeli Military. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired October 01, 2026 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR, "THE BRIEF": Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington, and
you're watching "The Brief."
Just ahead this hour, a Flydubai passenger describes exactly how he managed to subdue the attacker, tying him up with headphones. New video shows
passengers and crew seizing control of the plane in that very harrowing moment. A British-Iranian man is arrested on suspected terrorism offenses,
this in the investigation into the U.K. airbase incident. And this woman on death row was given two lethal injections, yet survived. It's raising new
concerns about botched executions in the United States.
We do begin with the investigation into the attempted hijacking of that Flydubai plane. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says the alleged
attacker, an Omani national, underwent, quote, "Islamist radical indoctrination." The suspect, who was one of the pilots, has now been sent
to the United Arab Emirates from Saudi Arabia. The UAE says it is investigating whether Wednesday's violence is linked to terrorism.
Captain Smit Machchhar, the other pilot, has also been transported to the UAE after receiving surgery. Many are calling him a hero for managing to
not just survive the attack, but open the cockpit door despite his injuries, allowing passengers to then enter the cockpit and tackle the
suspect. The Israel-bound plane was carrying more than 170 people at the time.
Quite a moment there. New video showing passengers cheering and clapping when they learned they were finally safe on the ground.
Jeremy Diamond is live from Tel Aviv. And, Jeremy, I know you were talking to one of the passengers there. And just the harrowing moment, knowing that
he and his family were in danger.
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely, Jim. And the stories of heroism have been pouring in from this flight. There are three
individuals in particular who were responsible for not only charging into that cockpit, but ultimately subduing and then restraining for nearly an
hour the co-pilot who had carried out this attack attempting to hijack the plane. One of those men is Tzvika Manes. We spoke to him earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DIAMOND (voice-over): It's hard to imagine, but this family just survived a dramatic brush with death. 24 hours ago, they were aboard that harrowing
Flydubai flight. Tali (ph) was taking her six-year-old daughter to the bathroom when she says she suddenly heard strange noises coming from the
cockpit. I mainly heard banging on the door, something you're not supposed to hear coming from the cockpit. Noises, a man's raised voice. Suddenly,
she says, the cockpit door flung open and she saw one of the pilots stabbing the other.
At that moment, I realized that was it. It was over. I couldn't imagine any way we were going to get out of there. I just screamed, they're stabbing
the pilot, they're stabbing the pilot, help. I screamed and screamed.
That's when Tzvika, seen here in a bloodied white shirt, jumped into action, grabbing his daughter from the bathroom before rushing to subdue
the attacker.
TZVIKA MANES, PASSENGER WHO SUBDUED ATTACKER ON FLYDUBAI FLIGHT: I heard my wife scream, screaming, and I heard my daughters screaming. We don't
want to die. Father, we don't want to die. And this -- you know, this is, and I'm getting emotional right now as well. When you hear that your
daughters are crying for help, you do whatever you can to help them. And that's the trigger that pushed me.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Do you describe it as instinct?
MANES: It's absolutely instinct. We were like jumping on him, three guys, and with hands. We were struggling with him. And, I mean, this must have
all been happening so fast. It's so fast and the adrenaline is so high. And I didn't know where I was covered with blood from fighting with him. I
don't know. Maybe he was injured. I don't know how.
[18:05:00]
DIAMOND: It was his blood?
MANES: It was his blood, yes. I was covered with blood. You know, I have some bruises here that only today I just noticed that this is the
adrenaline, you know. When you are in this moment, you don't feel anything, you act like actually a machine trying to solve, trying to control, trying
to be efficient as much as you can.
DIAMOND (voice-over): Tzvika is one of three passengers who rushed toward the cockpit and took down the co-pilot before he could crash the plane. But
they only managed to get in thanks to the quick thinking of the plane's captain.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Policeman, police coming.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where is the police?
DIAMOND (voice-over): Smit Machchhar, who managed to open the cockpit door.
MANES: He is absolutely a hero. He is absolutely a hero and due to his acts, we are sitting here today.
DIAMOND: Have you ever been in a situation like this before?
MANES: Never.
DIAMOND: Never?
MANES: Never. There were moments we thought this is the end of our life and I'm glad that we succeeded making the change.
DIAMOND (voice-over): Tzvika's daughters are still processing their ordeal, but Millie's (ph) opinion is set on her father. He is a hero, she
says, and I love him.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DIAMOND (on camera): And, Jim, there are still many questions tonight about the motives of this co-pilot who carried out this attempted
hijacking, but he has for now been extradited to the United Arab Emirates. Tzvika told me that he has faith that the Emirates will carry out justice
in this situation and for Tzvika, he says he believes it's no question that this was a terrorist attack in his mind. Jim.
SCIUTTO: And we do know the Israeli is taking part in that investigation as well. Jeremy Diamond in Tel Aviv, thanks so much.
Joining us now, Bruce Hoffman, Senior Fellow for Counterterrorism and Homeland Security at the Council on Foreign Relations. Bruce, good to have
you. Thanks so much for joining.
BRUCE HOFFMAN, SENIOR FELLOW FOR COUNTERTERRORISM AND HOMELAND SECURITY, CFR: Oh, you're very welcome.
SCIUTTO: So, it's early, but the Israeli Prime Minister is saying evidence of Islamist radical indoctrination and Omani national on a flight bound for
Israel who also somehow managed to get a weapon on board and the Prime Minister described it as a significant knife or perhaps even axe. How does
that happen? And how would someone with indoctrination manage to get a job as a co-pilot on a commercial flight?
HOFFMAN: Of course, if this is accurate and this is someone who was radicalized unbeknownst to either the air carrier or certainly the Emirati
authorities, it was done clandestinely and secretly, and it's not without precedence either.
If you think back to just before Christmas 2019, a Saudi Arabian Air Force pilot trainee was being taught how to fly at the U.S. Naval Air Station in
Pensacola, Florida. Unbeknownst to U.S. and Saudi authorities, he had been radicalized and was operating at the behest of Al-Qaeda in the Arabian
Peninsula, obtained a handgun in Florida and killed three persons and wounded eight others.
So, in some ways, if this pans out, as the Israeli authorities are describing it, it's our worst nightmare because we board a plane and always
believe we can put our faith and trust in a pilot. And here this individual's intent, as it appears, on crashing the plane and killing all
274 persons on board, 174 persons on board.
SCIUTTO: Yes, no question. Listen, I mean, it's such a close escape, right, on a thousand different levels, including the damage to the plane
from that steep dive there. As the investigation proceeds, what immediate questions are priority? I imagine one of them is, was there a state
sponsor?
HOFFMAN: Well, indeed, given the state of hostilities with Iran now and with the still unresolved incident that occurred outside a U.S. Air Force
base in England just over the weekend, obviously suspicion falls on Iran and on a state sponsor. But I wouldn't narrow the list of usual suspects to
just the Islamic Republic of Iran. One has to worry about Al-Qaeda, because Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, al-Shabaab in East Africa have been
extremely active lately. It could also be an ISIS operative that, in other words, radicalized this Omani co-pilot. So, unfortunately, nowadays, the
list of suspects is longer than usual.
[18:10:00]
SCIUTTO: No question. So, now, you have you have this other plot against this U.K. air base used by U.S. aircraft involved in the war against Iran.
I was speaking to another terror analysts just earlier this afternoon who made the point how both Iran and Russia are increasingly relying on you
know freelancers, right. I mean, they -- or a gig terror economy, right. You hire folks, criminals, low lives, et cetera to carry out things. Is
that what this Iran plot looks like to you and does that -- I mean, is that kind of an insidious threat rising here across Europe?
HOFFMAN: Yes. That's absolutely right. I mean, in the Cold War, let's say, or the post-Cold War era in the late 20th century you had actual state
agents or even into this century carrying out acts of sabotage or terrorism. What has emerged as a pattern over the past year and a half
especially in Europe but also in the United States and Canada is individuals who aren't necessarily terrorists, who aren't ideologically or
theologically motivated but are gangsters, criminals, thugs, ordinary teenagers that in essence are being crowdsourced, they're being paid to
carry out attacks as we've seen over the past 18 months in Europe by Iran.
So, the incident in the United Kingdom is one that may indeed link back to a state sponsor. And at the moment, given that this is conformed to a modus
operandi Iran has pursued they are the number one suspect I think in that particular case.
SCIUTTO: Bruce Hoffman, thanks so much for joining.
HOFFMAN: You're very welcome.
SCIUTTO: Still ahead. The worsening global bond market. Borrowing costs are rising to the highest level in decades. We'll discuss with Mohamed El-
Erian the chief economic adviser at Allianz after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Welcome back in today's Business Breakout. Now, U.S. stocks finished mostly flat Thursday on the first trading day of November. It was
however a volatile session as investors focused on the action on global bond markets. Ten-year U.S. Treasury yields briefly hit a new 24 year high
after posting their biggest quarterly jump this century in the third quarter. French 10-year yields hit 24-year highs as well. U.K. 30-year
yields rose to 6 percent for the first time since, when, 1998.
[18:15:00]
The sudden rise in borrowing costs so worrisome that the IMF was forced to issue a statement ensuring investor -- assuring investors that bond markets
are functioning in an orderly fashion. Troubling when you have to say that.
New pain in the U.S. housing market to average 30-year fixed mortgage rates took their biggest jump in nearly four years this week and are now above 7
and a quarter percent. Mortgage rates have now risen for six straight weeks. Bond yields are rising in part because of the inflationary effects
of higher oil prices as well as rising sovereign debt levels.
Joining me now is someone who knows these markets extremely well, Mohamed El-Erian, chief economic advisor at Allianz and professor at the University
of Pennsylvania's Wharton School. Mohamed, good to have you back.
MOHAMED EL-ERIAN, CHIEF ECONOMIC ADVISER, ALLIANZ AND CHAIR, GRAMERCY FUNDS MANAGEMENT: Thank you, Jim, for having me.
SCIUTTO: All right. So, there's a lot of factors to this right. The U.S. economy strong inflation still high. I just wonder how much of this is a
statement on U.S. finances and U.S. debt. And similar when you look at the French numbers or the U.K. numbers which would seem to me to speak to
longer term issues.
EL-ERIAN: So, it's a global phenomenon. The driver is the U.S. but the U.S. is exposing vulnerabilities elsewhere including in the core of Europe.
Why is it happening. The easiest way to think about this Jim is the following. We have more people looking to issue debt looking to issue bonds
not just the government but hyperscalers. Their issuance is going from 200 billion last year to a trillion. So, that's a massive increase.
On the other side, your reliable buyers, the one you could depend on day in and day out are less reliable. China for geopolitical reasons. The Gulf
countries are spending more at home so they have less to invest abroad. Japan is trying to support its currency. And Norway even Norway has
announced it is reducing its holdings. So, higher demand lower supply. And who has filled this gap? The most volatile of all holders hedge funds. So,
you get elevated yields. And as you pointed out, also very volatile yields.
SCIUTTO: So, we saw the U.S. Treasury secretary -- I mean you remember his comments now, I'm the house, you know. And you had those interventions both
in the U.S. market also the Japanese market. I mean they clearly didn't work. So, what if any are the fixes for this or if not fixes ways to kind
of soften the blow.
EL-ERIAN: So, there's one fix and that is fiscal adjustment in the U.S. The U.S. is running a very large budget deficit 6 percent of GDP. It is
refinancing maturing debt at much higher interest rates. So, it's putting quite a weight on the bond market. You don't want necessarily to frustrate
the hyperscalers because they are investing in what I believe is a productivity and growth enhancing strategy. So, the right answer is fiscal.
That's not what we're going to get.
We're going to get monetary policy instead. Higher interest rates as the Fed tries to convince the world that it's in control. And that
unfortunately may sacrifice the housing market the car loan market and hit low-income Americans particularly hard.
SCIUTTO: Yes. So, when you hear the Bessents of the world say we're just going to grow our way out of this we don't need to cut the spending. We're
going to grow our way. It sounds like your answer is, that's not going to work.
EL-ERIAN: I say the bond market no longer has the patience. It has heard this for a long time and they act. The bond market wants to see action on
the fiscal side. It believes in growth. That's why the equity market is doing so well. We are one and a half percent from record highs on the S&P.
So, the equity market is fine. Growth is fine. It is the bond market. And that's the transmission unfortunately to the rest of the world.
SCIUTTO: No question. Now, when I read the highest level in these yields on the say, for instance the 10-year benchmark since the dot-com bust I
begin to think, wait a second, do we have the ingredients of another bubble bursting?
EL-ERIAN: We certainly have vulnerabilities and we had them before the interest rates started going up. I think the main concern is twofold. One
within the G7 the richest countries three countries in particular are vulnerable, France, Japan and the U.K. Outside you have a handful of
emerging markets that are vulnerable.
[18:20:00]
And the irony is the one that has the longest runway to misbehave is the U.S. So, even though it's the U.S. misbehavior that's causing all this,
because the dollar is a reserve currency, because people trust still the U.S. financial markets, it can misbehave much longer than other countries.
SCIUTTO: In another time, and this is not to say that such cooperation would be a fix, but in another time, you can imagine coordination among
those countries. And there was some coordination, it seemed, between the U.S. and Japan. But given the difficult, shall we say, relationships
between the U.S. and some of its allies and biggest trading partners, is that kind of coordination even in the cards anymore? Is it possible
anymore?
EL-ERIAN: Not for now. Even on something simpler, interest rates are complicated, something simpler, energy products. Countries around the world
are rushing or thinking about limiting exports, which makes the problem elsewhere worse. It's particularly the case for diesel.
So, we're not seeing the sort of cooperation that we've seen in the past. It seems more and more each countries in it for itself. And, you know,
insurers will tell you when you self-insure, it's much more costly than when you pool insure.
SCIUTTO: OK. Before we go, for retail investors who are watching this right now who say, OK, listen, I'm comfortable because the stock market's
going up, my 401K, my pension accounts, et cetera, doing OK. Is there a way for them to hedge, to take advantage of this? Should they be buying bonds
to take advantage of some of those yields?
EL-ERIAN: So, on the stock side, most of the gains come from a handful of companies. The rest of the market isn't doing so well. So, understand that
your stock market holdings, if you're holding the index, the S&P, the Dow, is really all about tech companies. On the bond side, we have not seen such
high interest rates, not just in absolute terms, Jim, but relative to inflation.
So, I tell people, you know what, take some money off stocks right now, put it in two-year bonds. You'll be earning 5 percent, very close to 5 percent
if you go in top quality corporates even more. And just wait a little bit, because this is a structurally uncertain time.
SCIUTTO: No question. All right. Well, next time I'll ask you about the New York Jets, our share. I watch your tweets on that. That's an even more
unpleasant subject, but no.
EL-ERIAN: Yes, but there's nothing uncertain about it. They stink.
SCIUTTO: Exactly. No good investment there. Mohamed El-Erian, thanks so much for joining.
EL-ERIAN: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Checking some of today's other business headlines, global energy prices pushing higher on word that China is suspending most of its refined
oil exports. The move suggests China remains concerned about its own domestic oil supplies as the Iran war drags on. Oil analysts say the move
will be yet another source of stress for global energy markets.
California's attorney general sent a subpoena to artificial intelligence giant OpenAI as part of an ongoing cybersecurity investigation. Rob Bonta's
office is investigating how OpenAI agents broke into servers belonging to the A.I. firm Hugging Face without human permission. Bonta says A.I. firms
have a moral and legal responsibility to ensure their models are not used for cyber-attacks.
Shares of toymaker Mattel rallied more than 18 percent today on reports that it might be a takeover target. Reuters and The Wall Street Journal
report that authentic brands group is interested in buying the maker of such iconic toys as Barbie and Hot Wheels. The deal could be worth at least
$6 billion.
Paramount Skydance says its merger with the parent company of CNN, Warner Bros. Discovery, will close on October 6th, creating one of the biggest
media companies in the world. A new co-CEO was announced soon after a judge approved last week's settlement of an antitrust lawsuit. Brian Stelter has
more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: I think it's a major statement by David Ellison, who's in his 40s. He's bringing in who's in his 60s, who is,
you know, what we would think of as an established CEO, someone who has led a major publicly traded company for many years. That's something that David
Ellison has not done. So, you might look at this as this incoming media mogul, with the help of his father, Larry Ellison, taking over one of the
biggest media empires in the world and recognizing that he's going to need some seasoned hands around him to do it.
So, he's bringing in Kreiz who comes from Mattel, who has a long history in Hollywood, who's walked the red carpets, who's negotiated the deals, who's
also done a lot of cost cutting and a lot of layoffs in his years. And that's, of course, going to be part of the challenge for this merged
Paramount Warner when the deal takes effect next week.
[18:25:00]
The Wall Street analysts have been promised six billion dollars in synergies. So, that's going to be the task for the co-CEO to deliver, while
Ellison says he's going to be thinking more about long-term strategy, talent relationships, capital allocation, things like that.
So, it's a divvying up of the portfolio, and it's really an assessment of what this company is going to look like, because as we were talking about
earlier, one of the biggest media companies on the planet by bringing Paramount and Warner together, by bringing Paramount Plus and HBO Max
together, and by bringing in CNN and CBS News together. And by this time next week, we'll have a much better sense of who's going to be running all
those parts of the company.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Our thanks to Brian Stelter. Coming up on The Brief, a woman in Tennessee gets life-saving care after a failed execution. We'll discuss new
concerns and what was already a controversial case.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Welcome back to "The Brief." I'm Jim Sciutto, and here are the international headlines we're watching today.
The suspect in the attack on board the Flydubai flight has now left Saudi Arabia after medical clearance to face questioning in the UAE. Saudi
authorities questioned the suspect after the plane was diverted to Saudi Arabia following the attack. Israel's prime minister says the suspect is an
Omani national who had undergone radical Islamist indoctrination. However, investigators have yet to confirm any motive or link to terrorism.
Vladimir Putin says Ukrainian strikes on Russian oil refineries have cost his country 1 percent of its GDP. The Russian president was speaking at the
Valdai Discussion Club, which is a Moscow-based think tank. He says that Western specialists are aiding Ukraine with space-based data to help
Ukrainian forces strike deep inside Russian territory. President Putin says that amounts to the involvement of those Western countries in the conflict.
[18:30:00]
The family of a U.S. woman shot and killed by an ICE agent in Minneapolis is suing members of the Trump administration. Renee Good, you'll remember,
was shot dead in January during a surge in immigration enforcement. Her death led to nationwide protests. Good's partner and her brother filed two
lawsuits. One names the U.S. government. The other names the agent involved in the shooting, as well as senior Trump administration officials.
Tennessee has now paused all executions after a woman survived two doses of lethal injection. Christa Pike's attorneys say she is in critical condition
now and receiving life-saving care. This is Tennessee's second failed execution this year. Pike and her then-boyfriend were convicted in the 1995
torture and murder of a classmate, Colleen Slemmer. Pike's boyfriend was 17, sentenced to life in prison. Pike was 18 at the time, therefore a legal
adult. She received the death penalty.
Her death sentence was already controversial, however. She would have been the first woman executed in Tennessee in 200 years. Legal practices have
changed since she was convicted. Courts now usually take into account a perpetrator's age or personal history. Pike was sexually abused and raped
repeatedly while growing up, according to her attorneys, beginning all the way when she was a toddler.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN FERRELL, ATTORNEY FOR CHRISTA PIKE: That was her biggest fear as the survivor of sexual abuse, that she would be pinned down, prodded,
poked, cut for a prolonged period of time, during which time she could be reliving her past trauma. And for a traumatized person to be put through
this, no one should have to do that. That was cruel and unusual punishment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Ryan Young joins me now and just the details of this based on witnesses who were there to witness the execution are truly alarming.
RYAN YOUNG, CNN SENIOR U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim, all this, this entire story is truly alarming. When you take it from the beginning to
end, you think about the victim who was beaten with an asphalt and then had something carved in her chest back in 1995. But to get here, Christa Pike
actually was saying, look, I just don't want to be executed in this manner.
She actually has a condition that has, where she has small veins. She was directing the people with the syringes to where to go to try to find the
place to put this in. And 40 minutes after they started trying to administer the drug, they put a second dose in. So, across the country
here, this is the first time somebody survived two doses.
So -- but take a listen to her attorney talk about what it was like in those moments yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RANDY SPIVEY, ATTORNEY FOR CHRISTA PIKE: Last night, the execution team attempted to establish an I.V. Line for an hour. I counted at least seven
needles used in her left arm alone, one of which appeared to be bent when it was pulled from her arm after an unsuccessful attempt. The state
continued its efforts despite the very complications that we had warned about in court months earlier.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YOUNG: Yes, Jim, people are astounded by this. And in fact, there's been so much reaction to it. The governor has paused all executions for the rest
of the year. They're going to try to study this to do an investigation to see how they move forward.
But for the people in the room, some of them who heard her gasping, some heard her singing. Then there was a moment where everybody was in the dark
while they were trying to figure things out. Listen to some of the witnesses who were there last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CATHERINE SWEENEY, MEDIA WITNESS: She said that there was a spot that was burning and hurting and asked if that was normal. None of none of it was
normal. I covered all the executions last year and most of the ones this year. We haven't seen anything like it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YOUNG: Yes. So, she's in critical condition at this point. Christa Pike, who's 50 now, we're not sure what's going to happen to her at this point.
Not sure her lawyers can even visit her in the state that she's in in the hospital. So, there's just a lot of questions about this and whether or not
there's going to be any more information coming from the Bureau of Prisons that are in Tennessee.
Obviously, they have had other issues before with lethal injections. And right now, there's a lot of people who are really concerned and losing hope
with the way things are being done.
SCIUTTO: Ryan Young, thank you. Joining us now is Christopher Slobogin, director of the Vanderbilt Law School's criminal justice program. He joins
me now. Christopher, thanks for taking the time.
CHRISTOPHER SLOBOGIN, DIRECTOR VANDERBILT LAW SCHOOL'S CRIMINAL JUSTICE PROGRAM: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: So, first of the specific circus circumstances of this case, not one but two failed executions. Not the first time this has happened in
Tennessee. her lawyers say this attempted execution, therefore, was cruel and torturous. Legally, do you agree it meets that standard? And if so,
what happens now?
[18:35:00]
SLOBOGIN: All right. So, the Eighth Amendment to the Constitution prohibits criminal punishment. And the argument by the lawyers for
Christopher Pike is that this was cruel and unusual. Now, the Supreme Court has decided that killing someone through lethal injection is not
automatically cruel and unusual. But the facts of this case suggest what went on here was close to torture. And so, I think the lawyers do have an
argument that trying to kill her this way again would violate the Constitution.
SCIUTTO: So, what are the options then? Because the lawyers are talking about commuting her sentence to life in prison. Is that is that possible?
Who would decide so? And if not, is there another means of execution?
SLOBOGIN: Governor Lee has complete authority to commute Christa Pike's sentence. He refused to do so before, but maybe in light of what's
happened, he will do so. He certainly has put this execution on pause at least till the end of the year. But if he decides that execution is proper,
they could try this kind of injection process again, as her lawyers predicted. And as we now -- all of us can probably predict, it will not be
successful to try it again.
A few months ago, she actually asked for a firing squad, but she was turned down on that because Tennessee does not allow that form of execution.
Tennessee still does have an electric chair, but that option has not worked every time either. So, in other words, it's very possible that because of
concerns about how ineffective the execution process is in Tennessee, that this will be delayed for a very long period of time if Governor Lee does
not, in fact, meet her sentence.
SCIUTTO: I mean, there's a larger question here, of course, because it's not the first time this happened in Tennessee. It's not the first time it
happened. In fact, there are multiple cases of failed executions or just difficult and allegedly torturous executions with lethal injection. Is
there a broader problem here that needs to be addressed?
SLOBOGIN: Well, certainly there is. I mean, the form of execution that we have today has over and over again led to false executions. That is lethal
injection, but there's a three-drug cocktail, as used to be used in a number of states, or the kind of execution process was used in Christa
Pike's case. But there are problems with other forms of execution as well. Some states have tried nitrogen hypoxia, which slowly but surely deprives a
person of oxygen, and that has succeeded once or twice, but that has its own problems.
So, yes, there's a very large problem here. Certainly, if a person has been sentenced to death through appropriate process, the state has the right to
execute the person. But at the same time, the Eighth Amendment does put limits on how that execution may take place, and we're seeing over and over
again that states are not able to carry out executions in a non-cruel way.
SCIUTTO: On this program, we have an international audience as well, and the U.S. is, it's not unique, but it's increasingly in a small number of
nations that still carries out executions. Where is this going in the United States? I mean, in general, conservative judges and conservative
lawmakers have supported it, and we have a long history of judges being appointed by conservative presidents and down to the state line.
Is it becoming more or less prominent here in the U.S.? What direction is just the execution phenomenon going here?
SLOBOGIN: Right. Well, over the last several decades, there's definitely been declining support for the death penalty. Several decades ago, 40
states or so had the death penalty. Now, there are only 27. Public opinion polls indicate declining support for the death penalty. It's around the 50
percent range now. When people are asked, life without parole or the death penalty, that percentage goes even lower.
So, overall support is declining, but it certainly has not disappeared, especially here in the South, in Tennessee. Southern states, the death
penalty still is very popular. And even in California, a so-called blue state, a referendum on the death penalty still found over 50 percent
support for it. So, it's not going to go away in the near future if we base the solution on public opinion polls or what legislators think. But on the
other hand, the long-term trend is away from the death penalty and towards life without parole or life with parole for serious crimes like
premeditated murder.
SCIUTTO: Christopher Slobogin, thanks so much for joining.
SLOBOGIN: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: A CNN investigation examines Jared Kushner's role as a Gaza peace negotiator. At the same time, his company holds a large stake in a firm
linked to Israel's military. We'll break it all down coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:40:00]
SCIUTTO: A new CNN investigation has found that while the U.S. president's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, acted as a key Middle East peace negotiator, his
private equity firm held the largest stake in an Israeli company. That company backed businesses tied to Israel's military campaign in Gaza,
including its largest arms manufacturer. CNN's Katie Polglase investigates.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KATIE POLGLASE, CNN INVESTIGATIVE RESEARCHER (voice-over): Jared Kushner, president Trump's son-in-law, often seen acting as America's unofficial
peace envoy to the Middle East.
JARED KUSHNER, UNOFFICIAL U.S. MIDDLE EAST PEACE ENVOY: Why can't the world be better? Why can't there be peace? Why can't there be more
prosperity?
POLGLASE (voice-over): But he's also a billionaire private investor.
KUSHNER: The fund is doing great and we've got a great team, great portfolio.
POLGLASE: And a CNN investigation has now found that his firm, Affinity Partners, is the largest shareholder in an Israeli financial giant, backing
businesses that provide equipment to the Israeli military equipment.
Equipment that has been used in Israel's wars in Gaza, Lebanon and Iran, the same wars Trump sent Kushner to resolve. His Israeli investment is the
latest in a series of examples where Kushner has blurred the lines between business and politics. The dual roles have drawn sharp criticism from some
but Kushner has wholeheartedly embraced it.
KUSHNER: When you get an Arab and Israeli together and they start talking about a business opportunity, they forget about everything else.
POLGLASE (voice-over): It all begins back in January 2021. President Trump leaves office. The next day, Kushner sets up a firm that would become
Affinity Partners with financial backing later coming from the Saudi state and then later Qatar and the United Arab Emirates.
Fast forward to July 2024, Affinity buys a stake in Israeli financial institution Phoenix Financial. Then, in January 2025, days before Trump
returns to the White House, Affinity doubles its stake in Phoenix, making it the largest shareholder.
By October 2025, Kushner is publicly involved in politics, standing in Tel Aviv, celebrating the release of the hostages after weeks negotiating a
ceasefire between Israel and Hamas.
POLGLASE: This is perhaps one of the most prominent moments when Kushner is performing both roles as a businessman and a diplomat at the same time.
Here he is, negotiating a peace deal for Gaza while also holding an investment in an Israeli company that is backing some of the very
businesses linked to the war in Gaza. And thanks to Israeli transparency laws, we can see what some of those businesses are.
POLGLASE (voice-over): CNN went through thousands of financial records and amid the hundreds of companies Phoenix invests in. We identified at least
nine supplying military equipment for Israel.
[18:45:00]
Affinity doesn't directly hold a stake in the nine companies CNN identified but it does stand to reap rewards when Phoenix makes a profit from such
investments. All nine companies saw their stock market value rise last year. And many said they've seen a material increase in business as a
result of the war in Gaza.
Phoenix shares in these companies are worth more than $456 million. One of the nine companies was Elbit Systems --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): The IDF also made operational use of the Lahav launcher.
POLGLASE (voice-over): -- Israel's largest arms manufacturer. We've previously traced Elbit weapons to multiple Israeli strikes that have
killed civilians. We also found Israel shipyards on Phoenix's books. They supply warships to the Israeli navy, ships that have repeatedly fired on
Gaza. Further companies include one making gearboxes for Israeli tanks and another making electronic fuses for shells used in Gaza.
POLGLASE: An attorney for Kushner told us Kushner is not involved in Phoenix's decisions on where to invest. He's not on their board and he's
never held a management role at the company. But we found Kushner's relationship with Phoenix is actually a bit more complicated.
POLGLASE (voice-over): He told Forbes in September last year he had a very active dialogue with Phoenix, meeting with their team every few weeks. And
an attorney for Kushner told us this was true at the time and that Kushner regularly spoke with Phoenix about the company, broader market trends and
potential strategic opportunities. Here he is talking about how he's encouraged Phoenix to invest in the Gulf.
KUSHNER: Phoenix, which is a monster company, is now looking at investments in Saudi Arabia, investments in UAE.
POLGLASE (voice-over): This encouragement, in fact, goes both ways.
KUSHNER: My investors from the Middle East are now looking at Israel and they're saying, wait a minute, maybe there's a benefit to having these wars
done. And they're seeing a good example there.
POLGLASE (voice-over): Around the same time this podcast published, Kushner was working on Trump's 20-point Gaza peace plan. Kushner's attorney
told us that Kushner has significantly reduced his interaction with Phoenix management since becoming substantially more engaged in volunteer public
service and diplomatic efforts.
Nevertheless, Kushner's held this Israeli investment amid his diplomacy. In July this year, Kushner's firm cashed in a quarter of its stake in Phoenix
for more than $340 million, a return of more than five times its original investment. Kushner's firm, Affinity, still remains Phoenix's largest
shareholder.
Katie Polglase, CNN, London
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: Phoenix's financial decline answers CNN's questions, but a spokesperson said the firm is, quote, "regulated," and that, quote,
"shareholder value is derived primarily from operating performance rather than investment returns." None of the nine companies CNN identified
commented for this report. The White House said Kushner's personal business activities have nothing to do with his diplomatic engagements.
Coming up next, to boldly go where tech has never gone before, a big day for SpaceX with multiple launches. Google is taking part in one of them,
and its plans are literally out of this world.
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[18:50:00]
SCIUTTO: It's one not-so-small step for SpaceX, which the company says could represent a giant leap for mankind. You're looking at two separate
SpaceX rockets taking off today, and there's a third set for later tonight. The first sending a crew of astronauts to the International Space Station.
The second mission could revolutionize A.I. Google is sending an experimental satellite to test out A.I. chips in space to see if it could
operate A.I. data centers in space.
Michael Wall is the space flight and tech editor at Space.com. He joins me now. So, Michael, we know that data centers aren't entirely welcome down
here on Earth. Can you really just shoot those up into orbit and operate them up there?
MICHAEL WALL, SPACEFLIGHT AND TECH EDITOR, SPACE.COM: Well, that's the option a lot of companies are going to try exploring now. And it seems kind
of crazy because, you know, it's very expensive to launch into space. It has historically been very expensive. But the bet is that launch costs are
going to go down and you don't really have any sort of NIMBY objections in space. So, if you can just put a bunch of stuff up there in space, you
won't have all the conflicts with people who get who are living next door to this land that's being transformed.
And also, you have all this solar energy. If you put satellites up there, they could theoretically catch the sun for it for all day, every day. And
so, you've got your energy. And that's sort of what a lot of companies are kind of betting on, that that over the long-term, this will be like a
profitable venture.
SCIUTTO: OK. But help me understand. Data centers are big, right? I mean, I see them out in northern Virginia.
WALL: Yes.
SCIUTTO: How do you get enough of them -- or does the fact that you're using the sun as energy take away some of the size of it?
WALL: Yes, there's a lot of skepticism around this. And part of it is for -- just what you're saying. You know, I mean, you would need a big
constellation of these A.I. data centers in space, for instance, like actually SpaceX has one planned out that it says we'll have a million
satellites in low Earth orbit. And that is an insane number, considering that we only have about 12,000 or like 13000 satellites up there right now
total. So, it seems kind of crazy to us.
But the but the bet is that with the new Starship mega rocket that SpaceX is trying to bring online, that the cost of launch will get down so low
that it'll be economically viable. There are a lot of people who think that this is not really like a profitable play, that it's still going to be
really expensive. And, you know, if you have all of these satellites up there and they've got all these cutting-edge chips on them, those chips are
are going obsolescent relatively quickly as the tech advances, right.
So, you're going to have to replace all of that hardware and they're only going to be up there for about five years for each satellite. So, it's like
not only do you have to launch all these, but you've got to keep maintaining that constellation constantly. So, it's just -- it's almost a
crazy number of like of launches that's required to keep this infrastructure up there for us right now.
But these big thinkers like, yes, like Elon Musk think that the cost of launch is going to come down so much in the near future that it is going to
actually make sense eventually.
SCIUTTO: OK. I know space is big and orbit's pretty big, too, but there's a lot of stuff up there already and there are already collisions in orbit,
right. I mean, even in some space junk and all that stuff. If you're starting to, like, you know, grow that the number of satellites up there by
an order of magnitude, I mean, do they start running into each other? Is there a space problem, a space problem in space?
WALL: Yes, that that's another objection to this. And it's a viable one. It is. We've seen -- you know, I mean, all these satellites up there now
and the vast majority of them are actually SpaceX satellites for -- yes, for their sort of current -- yes, yes. Yes. Like their Starlink kind of
their -- those like broadband satellites, they have to do all of these like maneuvers to avoid other satellites, to avoid space junk.
And if you put like another order of magnitude or two orders of magnitude, more satellites up there, it's going to get so complicated. I mean, these
satellite operators think that they can handle it, but, you know, we just kind of have to take their word at it. And there is no like enforcement
mechanism, really. It's like kind of like a Wild West right now where everybody -- like every big project is just getting approved. And that's
both here and in, say, China, which also wants to launch a bunch of these mega constellations for broadband service.
So, it is sort of like this runaway system now where nobody's putting the brakes on it. And I mean, some of the stuff we might have to just do by
trial and error. And if there is a big collision up there, it it'll change orbit for everybody, for all the people who want access to space.
SCIUTTO: It's a good point.
WALL: Yes. So, it is -- yes. Like it's a concern.
SCIUTTO: Yes. You always hear that. And listen, you'd -- one accident. Lots of pieces up there that that spoils the orbit for everybody.
[18:55:00]
Michael Wall, thanks so much for joining.
WALL: Yes. Sure thing. Happy to help.
SCIUTTO: Now, for our Good Brief, Major League Baseball began its playoffs this week. And after years of one of one of the worst teams in baseball,
the Chicago White Sox are off to a running start. They finished their wildcard sweep of the Astros on Wednesday. It's their first playoff series
victory since winning the World Series back in 2005.
And a Catholic priest from Chicago, Father Robert Prevost, watched Game 1 of that World Series from the stands. Today, you might know him better as
Pope Leo. The Bishop of Rome famously backs the Southsiders, and the team is moving ahead with his blessing. The White Sox have revealed a message
from Leo, wishes them the Almighty's abundant blessings, as written to Sox owner Jerry Reinsdorf, who's Jewish. ESPN quotes him as saying he might
have to convert. The next Sox game is at Cleveland on Saturday. It strikes me as an unfair advantage. But then again, if the pope liked my team, I
would accept it, too.
Thanks so much for joining. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. You've been watching "The Brief." Please do stay with CNN.
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