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Table For Five
America Celebrates 250: What Has U.S. Gotten Right So Far?; America Celebrates 250: Most Underrated, Overrated Places; America Celebrates 250: Best Musician And Song in U.S. History. Aired 8-9a ET
Aired July 04, 2026 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[08:00:30]
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR: Today, a birthday show as the nation celebrates its semi quincentennial what has America gotten right? Plus, MapQuest, the country's most underrated places and the most overrated also, from Motown to rock, grunge to go disco and doo wop, we rank American music, the performers, and the songs that became the soundtracks to our lives. And back to the future. Bold predictions for where the red, white, and blue will go over the next 250 years.
Here in studio, Cari Champion, Arthur Aidala, Harry Entin, and Kmele Foster. It's Independence Day. Join the conversation at a Table for Five.
Happy Fourth of July, everyone, and happy 250th birthday, America. I'm Abby Phillip for a special holiday edition of Table for Five.
We're going to be discussing all things American, favorite cities, music, bold predictions. But first, we too often talk about the country's divisions, uncertainty here and abroad, fears about the economy and technology. So, today we want to start the conversation on a more positive note.
Here's the question for our panel. What has America gotten right so far? Let's start with you, Harry.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: I think what America has gotten right so far is, you know, before America came along, yes, there had been democracies before, and yes, we were an imperfect democracy. And in some ways we -- some may argue we're still imperfect, but that is the basis for how we elect our leaders. And that to me, is a shining light on a hill for the rest of the world.
Much of the rest of the world has since become much more democratic since our founding 250 years ago. But beyond that, what has America gotten right?
You know, I think of my great-grandparents who came here without very much to their names. They just, you know, essentially had the clothes on their backs and a few kids, and they moved in. And with a few -- within a few generations, I'm able to sit here, go out to hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Americans, and lead a pretty successful life.
I think that's the story of America. You can come here with nothing and -- and then within a few generations, maybe within one generation, you can really make a name for yourself.
Cari, what do you think?
CARI CHAMPION, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: That's fair. You know, I do like that idea. I think, unfortunately, and I try not to be a prisoner of the moment, but when I think about what America's gotten right, especially now, I get, you know, it's a little bittersweet for me just because of where we are. But if I talk about what Harry just talked about, I do agree, because I have seen growth in my family over the years. I think what America has gotten right outside of air conditioning and airplanes.
PHILLIP: Air conditioning being principal among --
CHAMPION: Principal. We've gotten it right here. We appreciate it. Free speech, all three, can give you freedom. Free speech is something that has never really been free, technically, but we still have the right.
We still can say how we feel. We still can. It may cost us something. Not necessarily in that moment, perhaps eventually, but the beauty of what I do as a journalist is that I speak from my heart, and I don't ever have fear that what I'm saying will land me in jail or perhaps be the end of my life.
I do feel very sure that free speech is still. No matter how hard we have to fight for it here in America. And it's something that's, you know. No.
ARTHUR AIDALA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: May I?
CHAMPION: No.
AIDALA: May I?
CHAMPION: No.
ENTEN: Yes. Right there. Right there.
AIDALA: May I.
CHAMPION: No, you may not.
AIDALA: I ask -- I ask --
CHAMPION: I can't even know, I mean, friend.
PHILLIP: Friends. You're friends.
CHAMPION: It's called free speech.
PHILLIP: Arthur wants to make a word. CHAMPION: It's my turn.
AIDALA: OK.
CHAMPION: You get a turn, too. We're going around the table. He went -- I went now. It's your turn to go. You get a turn, too.
AIDALA: I'm asking permission.
CHAMPION: That's free speech.
AIDALA: I'm asking permission.
CHAMPION: So you would even let me finish.
AIDALA: Well, I mean --
PHILLIP: OK, Arthur.
AIDALA: I did follow the lead. Well, no, I -- look, first of all, you stole my talking points that I sent in.
ENTEN: Sorry.
PHILLIP: I was actually going to say, you can respond to Harry, but then you can also do yours as well.
AIDALA: OK, well -- but I couldn't agree with you more about the free speech part, except in the last, I don't know, eight years, 10 years, that became under attack.
CHAMPION: Sure.
AIDALA: It really did. With the MeToo movement and people being canceled and you got to watch what you say, and don't -- I mean, I forget who it was. I said, believe all women. As a defense attorney or as a prosecutor, that's an insane thing to say.
I mean, if we had a justice system that said, believe all priests, believe all rabbis, believe all men, believe all bald men. Like, that's not the way it's supposed to work. But if you --
CHAMPION: You're making my argument.
AIDALA: But when you push -- hold on, though. But when you pushed back on that, you got in trouble. You had to really watch what you said in public, on the radio, on TV.
[08:05:11]
I mean, and there are people, there are personalities we know that used to be able to write an op ed in the New York Times, and now the New York Times won't allow them to because they don't like their positions. So your point about what's so beautiful here --
CHAMPION: That's why we have SocMed. That's why we have Facebook. AIDALA: You're right. Yes.
CHAMPION: That's why we have other --
AIDALA: We have alternatives. You are correct.
CHAMPION: We have alternatives and that is the beauty of this country. You're making my point.
AIDALA: But we have a lead into --
CHAMPION: It doesn't matter, so.
AIDALA: We have it lead into mccarthyism a little bit.
PHILLIP: But Arthur, there is also a difference between social shaming and the government doing the punishment --
AIDALA: That's true. Absolutely.
PHILLIP: -- which I think is the big distinction.
AIDALA: Absolutely. And the first amendment is all about the (inaudible). You're correct.
PHILLIP: When we're talking about speech, you know, we're talking, is Cari going to be thrown in jail for saying something.
CHAMPION: No, I won't.
AIDALA: No, that's correct.
CHAMPION: You will because you wore that tie. It's not matched with you -- the fashion who --
PHILLIP: Versus can -- can we shame Arthur for his tie?
CHAMPION: Yes, maybe.
AIDALA: No. It's OK. 10:15 on July 4th.
ENTEN: How old the tie is?
AIDALA: But let me just say. I -- when they asked me from some talking points last night, I said the same thing you did. I was insanely close with my grandfather. Both of them, actually.
My father's father, Arthur Aidala, who I'm named after, I mean, he didn't get past 8th grade. Then my dad graduated high school, college, law school, is an assistant district attorney. My mother's father, Frank Piazza, they came over. His father came over with nothing.
My -- he went to college. He went to law school. He lived in the same building with Lucky Luciano. They were not -- no Italian men were in school at 15, 16, 17 years old. And somehow or another, he did it and he went on to work for the city for his whole career as a corporation counsel, lawyer. That doesn't happen in other countries.
In other countries, your dad's a shoemaker, you're a shoemaker, your kid becomes a shoemaker. And that's one of the things about this country that's spectacular.
PHILLIP: All right. Kmele.
KMELE FOSTER, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, TANGIE: I mean, we talked about free speech already. This kind of project of perfecting the union over time. I agree with all those things. Had written them down as well. But I think the quintessential thing that America got right is this idea of privileging the individual over the state.
So much of all of those rights are grounded in the individual that we're free to choose our own associations, and we're choosing. Free to break up with people and choose new associations if we so choose. And that is the thing that I think about all the time. In general, actually, but certainly on the 4th of July in this quince and semi quincentennial, which I hope we get to say a few number, I mean.
AIDALA: Good luck today.
FOSTER: Today. But it is, you know, the charge was for us to be optimistic and positive. And there have always challenges. There have always been challenges to free expression all throughout the country's history.
The reality is that it is a forever war. We have this opportunity to live in this incredible place and also to keep and maintain it. And which leads me to the second point that I'd like to make, which is, we have a republic, not a democracy. I think we oftentimes use that shorthand democracy to refer to what we're doing here.
But the framers also understood that if you're trying to safeguard these individual rights, you have to do it for the benefit of the minority. So, minority rights are enshrined in the Constitution.
And I think that that was a pretty great -- that was a pretty great innovation. I'm having trouble with my words today. Perhaps getting a little overwhelmed because they recognize that majoritarianism could be too excessive here in context.
AIDALA: The tyranny of the majority. That's in our writings.
ENTEN: I would just note that I think the discussion we're having here is emblematic of America, right? Different folks from different backgrounds came to this country at different times, have disagreements, but those disagreements are far smaller than the things we actually agree upon and that we can have a civil society.
CHAMPION: And you know what? To your point being emblematic, men are always interrupting women. This is a patriarchy.
AIDALA: You always got a fight with friends.
CHAMPION: And there is another -- this is a perfect example. AIDALA: Saturday morning on July 4th.
CHAMPION: A perfect example of America.
FOSTER: It's called equality.
CHAMPION: This is an example.
PHILLIP: Speaking of Cari, I'm going give you the floor for yours.
CHAMPION: Oh, he's dying. He's dying. Oh, no, mine was free speech.
PHILLIP: OK, yes. OK.
CHAMPION: Yes, yes. So -- but that was my whole point. And I -- look, and I agree with you, but you had a really good point, too, Abby, which I appreciate. There's a difference between, you know, a social attack and being canceled versus a real free speech and the government coming in and locking you up.
And so there -- those are the two differences. Would you not agree?
AIDALA: No, no. I absolutely agree.
CHAMPION: Because you brought up me, too, again.
AIDALA: But there are things that are going on in Congress and Senate. I mean, we just we're -- we're a very sensitive country now about what we say and how we say it and who we say it to and when we say it.
PHILLIP: And I think that goes -- I would say that goes both ways, because especially in the last year, I mean, people were fired over, you know, saying bad things about Charlie Kirk, and then they had to settle lawsuits recently about that. But if I were to pick one, I would say this -- the self-correcting mechanisms that this country has, I think have been among the best on the global stage in terms of how democracies can fix themselves, how they can self-improve. It's the only reason that we've gotten to this point as a nation is -- is not because we started out perfect, but because we fixed ourselves over time.
[08:10:02]
And I mean, I think there's probably a lot of people who would argue with me about that. It's a slow process. It doesn't all -- it does not move quickly on purpose. It does not always result in the right outcome the first time.
But I think actually it gets that balance right. If we don't want a parliamentary system where we're throwing the bombs out every 18 months, but we also want a system that can be improved, that can change when voters say so. And I think we actually have a good balance in the --
CHAMPION: If the voters say so. AIDALA: And Justice Antonin Scalia would agree with you. And people used to say, because he was such a strict interpreter of the text of the Constitution, he goes, it's not a living constitution. It's not a dead constitution. It's an enduring Constitution.
It's one that's supposed to evolve slowly, not make any radical changes as the electorate changes and changes who's in Congress, who's in the Senate and allow them and obviously who's in the White House and allow them to slowly make those changes, which is the self- correction.
PHILLIP: Yes. Maybe I should ask for now. Because who knows.
CHAMPION: Yes, we're going to say. Yes.
PHILLIP: I mean, we could break the whole thing.
CHAMPION: Currently.
PHILLIP: Who knows? All right, next for us, it's not the 4th of July weekend without a little road trip. We're going to hear the table's opinions on the most overrated and underrated places to go in America.
Cari, we're riding -- you're riding shotgun with me in the front.
And later, everyone has an opinion about music, of course, but who is America's best artist of all time? We'll debate it. That's up ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:16:17]
PHILLIP: Welcome back to our special holiday show. Now, everyone takes pride in where they've been, where they've come from, and the special places that they've discovered and loved the most along the way. So, what better way to kick off this conversation than to discuss the most underrated places in America? And of course, the most overrated ones.
All right, Kmele, you want to go first?
FOSTER: Yes. So what should I start with? Overrated or underrated?
PHILLIP: Underrated.
FOSTER: OK, underrated. I got two choices here. Utah is one. And Utah specifically. I'm talking about Moab and the Arches, which are some of the most Instagram places on the planet. I don't really care.
But also, they have Dinosaur National Park and all of these incredible wild places that people should totally visit.
PHILLIP: That's very true.
FOSTER: The second part of my recommendation here is the Northern California coast, which gets a lot of shine, but is clearly the crown jewel of these United States in terms of places that will just transform you simply by visiting them. I live in Marin, so just north of there. You keep driving on the coast. It is incomparable. Like, you need to be there.
PHILLIP: Do these Utah national parks have luxury resorts with.
FOSTER: Well, actually.
PHILLIP: Because I would go there. But I just --
FOSTER: I give you one recommendation. This is an endorsement under Canvas. Moab has a great place. You probably don't want to be there in the -- in the middle of the summer, but around the edges of that, it's wonderful.
PHILLIP: All right. So what's --
CHAMPION: I think if you know, you know.
PHILLIP: Yes. So what's overrated?
FOSTER: So overrated, to Orlando, Florida, industry town, theme parks, not my cup of tea. But number two, I don't know how you'll feel about this, Abby. Washington, D.C. it's another industry town. Nothing --
ENTEN: Yes. Yes.
FOSTER: To quote Marvin Gaye, nothing good ever comes out of D.C. just politics and --
PHILLIP: Wait, what?
ENTEN: Brooks Brothers suits come out of Washington.
PHILLIP: Oh, my God.
CHAMPION: Abby, do you take that (inaudible).
PHILLIP: I mean, I am not jaded. Like, I lived in D.C. for a very long time, and even after all this time, I am not jaded. Because when you get up in the morning, and you go for a run around the National Mall.
CHAMPION: That's beautiful.
PHILLIP: You're like, oh, my God. Like, I am running on the National Mall. There are monuments everywhere. There are -- it is just beautiful.
AIDALA: I agree with you. When you come out from New York and you take the Penn Station, and you get out. And as soon as you get out in Union Station and there's the Capitol. You're like wow. You're like wow. Look at this.
PHILLIP: I know. Like I know it's hot. And I know that the people can be a little annoying, but it's also a great place. It's a great place to raise a family. It is a beautiful city. It is a beautifully planned city. Thank you, Mr. L'Enfant, for your planning prowess. And it's just -- it's a great place. And when I see tourists in D.C., and you see just how in awe they are of the structures of the things you built --
AIDALA: Someone struck a nerve here. I mean, someone struck a (inaudible) of you, man.
PHILLIP: It's not as, like, awe-inspiring as, like, the Grand Canyon. It's like this natural wonder, but it is a monument to America and how we recognize ourselves.
CHAMPION: My college professor said the same thing about D.C. She said it's one of the most beautifully designed cities, and it's so easy to get around. Before, when I was doing an internship there, she's like, you'll love it. And you're right. It's absolutely beautiful.
If you look at it just on its face value.
PHILLIP: Yes. And it's like a walkable.
FOSTER: And ignore the fact that the facades are fake. You know, they make it -- they make it look --
ENTEN: I love this guy, actually.
PHILLIP: Fake, I don't -- I mean --
AIDALA: Because it was designed by Italians who designed the whole replacing.
PHILLIP: OK. You know fine.
AIDALA: That beautiful.
PHILLIP: It's fine. I'm not going to -- I'm not going to -- I'm not going to --
AIDALA: I got your back, Abby. You know, you got her riding shotgun.
PHILLIP: All right, Arthur. You get to go. Just for that, Autor, you get to go next.
AIDALA: All right. I'm going to go with overrated is Los Angeles. It's cool to be there for a little while.
ENTEN: Yes. Another fantastic answer.
AIDALA: But there's so, like, there's a lot of driving going on. And, I mean, there was obviously, Beverly Hills is pretty, but I mean, those stores now, with globalization, the exact same stores are in Beverly Hills or in Milan, they're in Tokyo. They're in Cape Town.
[08:20:09]
So there's -- there's nothing so unique. Obviously, going to the sets where they put the movies on, you know, that's OK. That's --
PHILLIP: If you do that kind of thing.
CHAMPION: Yes.
AIDALA: But that's, you know, it kind of wears off quickly. You're going to think this is nuts when I say under -- what I find to be underrated. And look, I hear what you're talking about, of the natural beauties of America, but there are a lot of natural beauties all over the world, right?
ENTEN: Sure.
AIDALA: So the vineyards of California, Northern California, are spectacular, but they're spectacular in Tuscany as well. The beaches in California are beautiful, but Hayman Island off of Australia is insanely gorgeous as well. But New York City, and I've been fortunate to travel a lot. Really, I've been six of the seven continents, and I'm trying to get to Antarctica.
There is no place like New York that has the diversity of every shape and size of a human being, every shape and size of culture. I mean, where I live in Brooklyn, within like three square miles, there's an Italian neighborhood, a Hasidic Jewish neighborhood, a very Hispanic neighborhood, and then a bunch of yuppies in Park Slope.
You still say yuppies. Am I going to cancel for saying that?
I mean that, you know, you don't find that in Rome. You don't find that in Tokyo. You don't find that in Cape Town. You know, the Broadway, the culture, the Lincoln Center, the Empire State Building, where people climbed up the other day and got engaged on it. I just think New York is just. It's so unique, it's so special. And I'm basing that on going to so many cities all over the globe.
FOSTER: Singularly.
PHILLIP: Cari.
CHAMPION: Well, I -- this is the one time, and I'm really sad about this. And for the folks at home, I'm really sad about this. I agree with Arthur.
AIDALA: Finally, July 4th. Thank you. Thank you, America. Thank you, America.
CHAMPION: I put one of the really underrated cities for me is New York. I am from Los Angeles. I disagree with you about your take on L.A., but that's neither here nor there.
CHAMPION: Well, one day, you can take me, we can do a tour.
CHAMPION: Yes, that's neither here nor there.
ENTEN: Then you can ride the town. CHAMPION: Yes, then you can ride. But the beauty for me about New York, and I think there is something that you can't quite describe. I would come here a lot when I worked at the Tennis Channel, and I would cover the U.S. Open.
And I was in Midtown, I would stay in Midtown, and I didn't really love it. And I remember my mother coming once and being. She's like, there's so much trash. It's just too much trash. And it's just. She just couldn't get it.
PHILLIP: It is dirty.
CHAMPION: It is. It is filthy, right? It filthy. And I am very much aware of that.
But there is an electricity, and there is an energy that cannot be replaced. And I can't describe it to you unless you're here on a great summer night or if you're on a night that just says yes, where you and your friends. Or a day that just says yes, and you and your friends go to brunch.
And then -- because no one brunches like you brunch here in New York, and you say yes to everything, and you wind up in a crazy adventure, and you're like, how did I end up here? And that's what this city can give you. You meet people, you become -- you meet friends.
When I go to L.A., I live in L.A. I mean, when I lived in L.A., I go to lunch by myself. I didn't leave with a friend. I could go to lunch at a bar in Brooklyn, and I'd have a friend. Somebody that I actually don't mind talking to for the day. But that is the thing. If you can make it here, you can make it anywhere.
Because if you figure it out and you learn the city, it will love you right back. You know what I mean? Only if you figure it out. And it takes a while.
PHILLIP: Yes, and it takes figuring out --
CHAMPION: It takes a some --
PHILLIP: It takes figuring, outing. OK. All right. Harry.
ENTEN: All right. You know, this is a day of love. So I'm going to love. I'm not going to hate. And, you know, no place to me is more sort of typical of America and is uniquely American than the suburbs. I feel like people rip on the suburbs all the time.
You know, there's that picture of, like, the gas station. There's a bunch of, like, fast food restaurants, and it's like, ew, who wants to do that? I love that.
There's nothing more that I love than jumping in the car with my girlfriend driving along. She's driving because I don't have a license, which is a very typical New Yorker right here.
PHILLIP: But you need to stay out of the suburbs. ENTEN: No, I got the girlfriend. I'm riding shotgun in that car. Keep him back. Riding shotgun. And I just love going from place to place to place, jumping from these little towns, little towns to little towns.
And then if there's one place overall, which is not a little town, but perhaps is the smallest mark in the NFL, which is Buffalo. I love Buffalo, neighbors. It's a place where everyone says hi. Everyone says, Go Bills. They have adopted me. I'm a huge Bills fan.
You go up there, and everyone is just so nice. And the weather is bad in the winter, but, you know, the tough it out, and we love the snow, and we love sticking together. And that, to me, is what America is all about Buffalo.
AIDALA: Buffalo. Buffalo in the house. I loved that.
PHILLIP: What's your overrated pick?
ENTEN: Oh, it's Times Square by far. I love the city of New York.
PHILLIP: OK, yes, a thousand concern.
ENTEN: The Times Square is tremendously overrated. Too stuffy.
CHAMPION: Awful.
ENTEN: People think it's New York. That ain't New York. You want New York, you go to Brooklyn. You go to the Bronx. You go to northern Manhattan, you go to Staten Island. You go to Queens. That's New York.
Times Square is an amusement park.
PHILLIP: Yes. You can take Times Square out of New York and I think it will be just fine.
CHAMPION: And still love it. Yes, people reach --
PHILLIP: All right, up next for us, which artist tops the table's charts for America's best? We'll see if your favorite makes the -- makes the list. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:29:45]
PHILLIP: As we talk about unity and what we all share as Americans, it's a safe bet that everyone has an opinion on our music, songs, and albums, and performers that play the role in all of our lives. So much so that a tune can just remind us it can take us back to major events or eras that we've experienced.
[08:30:00]
So for this American debate, who are your favorite musicians and bands of all time? And bonus points for your favorite songs. Cari, you want to kick us off? OK, so I want to be very clear.
AIDALA: Here we go.
CHAMPION: That this -- yes. No, it's not a disclaimer because people get offended when I say this name. Some people, not all people. But I'm talking strictly as a musician, and sometimes I understand that this can be triggering, But Michael Jackson, or like, he, to me, is one of the -- he is the greatest artist of all time, and it is only because of a time that we lived in which you can't really replace unless you really understand what it meant.
His music really, as from a kid when he was five years old to being a grown adult, he literally changed the way that we felt about music and how we even danced in this country. To watch this man perform would make people literally sick. I believe you can go to anywhere in this globe and you can hold up a picture of Michael Jackson or Michael Jordan and say, who do you know? And I think they'll know Michael Jackson before they know Michael Jordan.
PHILLIP: Wait, we've had to fight.
CHAMPION: Yes. Are you thinking that?
PHILLIP: I've had this conversation so many times. I think that's so --
AIDALA: Had it on the show.
PHILLIP: Yes, I think it's true.
CHAMPION: It's true. And he is -- he is a global, global entity, and his music really did change the world for me. I could say "Off the Wall" was arguably the best album, But I think when I think of songs and what really put him on the map was "Motown 25" and "Billie Jean", and he'd moonwalk.
AIDALA: "Thriller" was -- "Thriller" set the record.
PHILLIP: And he --
PHILLIP: I mean, you could pick any number of Michael songs.
CHAMPION: You get in (INAUDIBLE).
PHILLIP: My bar for this is like, you can probably ask people all over the country, do you like Michael Jackson? They may not -- they may or may not say, oh, I love Michael Jackson, but if you play a Michael Jackson song --
CHAMPION: You're going to move.
PHILLIP: -- they will know that song.
CHAMPION: They will know that song.
PHILLIP: They will know that song, and they will probably --
CHAMPION: Yes.
PHILLIP: -- be affected by it.
CHAMPION: Yes, it will -- it narrates a certain part, too.
PHILLIP: Yes.
CHAMPION: Music always narrates our life. It narrates a certain part that felt a little more innocent, a little more pure when music was simply music and you can understand the words. I know I said --
AIDALA: I highly recommend you going to see the Broadway show then, MJ. Seriously.
PHILLIP: I heard it was great.
CHAMPION: Yes.
PHILLIP: I heard it was great.
CHAMPION: I saw this --
PHILLIP: I heard it was great.
AIDALA: It's one of the best choreography.
CHAMPION: I saw it in the West End years ago. A version of that.
AIDALA: This is on another level of brilliant.
PHILLIP: Yes.
CHAMPION: OK.
PHILLIP: All right, you want to go next?
AIDALA: Well, it's a little bit of a cultural thing, but it's also -- you look at what stands the test of time. And if you watch the New York Yankees losing streak lately at the end, and they -- but they were just voted America's team. They beat out. They beat out the Dallas Cowboys. And at the end of every game, they play the same song. They play "New York, New York" by Frank Sinatra. Frank Sinatra recorded his first album in 1939 with the Harry James Band. July, actually, it's almost 100 years. And he's got his own Sirius satellite radio station, which people pay for.
So to still be relevant as an American after 100 years of music --
PHILLIP: Yes.
AIDALA: -- that's, I mean, that is a tremendous accomplishment. I mean, you could talk about artists from different countries and from Beethoven to, you know, Puccini in Italy, but as in terms of someone who was born in America, of Sicilian heritage, and I may add, we're still listening to his tunes. Go -- you talk about Times Square. Go in Times Square, they're playing Sinatra tunes on all of those pedicabs all around. And for me personally, a song that I enjoy that he didn't really like.
It was when he first retired and Paul Anka wrote for him "My Way." And he thought it was -- he thought --
PHILLIP: That's a great song.
AIDALA: -- it was a little -- I know he thought it was a little arrogant to say I did it my way, but it's, you know, it's still a tremendous hit. And Elvis Presley covered. So many people have covered it.
PHILLIP: Very good, very good. Good for you --
AIDALA: You know right?
(CROSSTALK)
CHAMPION: Good for you.
PHILLIP: I would say, like, you know, we'll be talking about Michael Jackson when we hit the hundred year mark --
CHAMPION: Sure.
PHILLIP: -- the same way that we talk about Frank Sinatra. It is just part of --
CHAMPION: America.
PHILLIP: -- who we are, what music is. And I, you know, I mean, if you had to go head to head, I don't know who would win out. You know.
FOSTER: Michael Jackson is what I was thinking in the back of my mind. And you made a very compelling case. I probably should have gone that way. But someone who overlapped with him during the Motown era, Stevie Wonder --
PHILLIP: Oh yes.
FOSTER: -- who has this incomparable catalog, still gives a remarkable performance. I think I've saw him in the last, like, seven years in Vegas, front row, and it was just absolutely incomparable. Songs of the in the "Key of Life," "Intervisions," as is my all-time favorite song. I sing it with my key kids during the lullaby medley that we do. And yes, it's --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Yes.
FOSTER: Yes. Absolutely.
PHILLIP: You know, what's my litmus test for music these days? What my four year old likes. And she likes all of this. She doesn't know Neil's.
ENTEN: Yes, you're giving away my answer.
PHILLIP: Sorry. Sorry. But it is the test of doesn't matter what generation.
CHAMPION: Yes.
PHILLIP: She can listen to a Stevie Wonder song and she will want to hear it over and over again.
ENTEN: Yes.
PHILLIP: She recently listened to a new Michael Jackson song she had never heard before.
CHAMPION: Which was?
PHILLIP: And Liberian Girl.
[08:35:00]
I had not heard in a thousand years.
CHAMPION: Yes. Yes.
PHILLIP: Right. And she just was like over and over -- she just like wanted to memorize this song.
CHAMPION: Oh wow.
PHILLIP: And it's just, yes, I mean, that's good music, right? OK, so now you can go.
ENTEN: Thank you. Well, you know, I just had to answer it. It's my uncle Neil, Neil Sedaka, who passed away earlier this year.
PHILLIP: Love that.
AIDALA: Brooklyn.
ENTEN: Yes. Brooklyn.
AIDALA: Brooklyn in the house.
ENTEN: Brooklyn born and bred. You know, just tremendous. You mentioned the songs. You know, "Breaking Up Is Hard To Do." That was the number one. He wrote "Love Will Keep Us Together" sung by Captain and Tennille. That was a number one. "Bad Blood" sung with Elton John. That was a number one.
And my personal favorite, "Laughter In The Rain," which, you know, I spoke about earlier on, you know, driving in the suburbs with the girlfriend. There is nothing more romantic and sort of brings sort of just stillness to my heart than listening to that song and going along on the country road and when it's raining a little bit, feeling that homey feeling, then that song.
PHILLIP: I love that. And also shout out to the songwriters because, right, like, there are some people who write amazing, perfect, permanent songs.
ENTEN: And that was, that was the great thing about my uncle. He was not just the singer of those songs, he was the songwriter for those songs as well.
PHILLIP: Yes.
ENTEN: The complete package.
PHILLIP: Yes, the whole -- the whole package. All right, everyone, coming up, what happens next? Our panel gives us their bold predictions for America's future.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:41:00]
PHILLIP: We've spent the Fourth of July holiday talking about where America has been, where it is. But what about where it's going? Let's chat about your bold predictions for the future, whether it's about life, politics or technology. You want to go first?
FOSTER: Sure. Well, I hopefully I'm not stepping on anyone's toes here. I am an unapologetic optimist, and I am bullish on America and its future. I know that there are lots of people who are gravely concerned about the state of the country and where we're headed. Ultimately, I think we're going to be OK. I think we're going to thrive. I think the project will renew itself in various ways, and I think the cynics will ultimately be wrong, but they will find new things to worry about.
AIDALA: I like it.
PHILLIP: Can't argue with that.
AIDALA: Short and sweet along the same lines. No, along the same lines and I too, am bullish. But if you look at the local elections and people are very concerned about the wealth disparity, right? So there's trillionaires and there's people, when I was walking here this morning, who are sleeping on the street. I'd like to think that over the next -- I'll hedge like 20 or 30 years, right? We will adjust our economy and whether it's our tax system or some social, not really volunteerism, but to -- so that those who are doing well figure out a way in, an equitable way, to help those who aren't. So that the rich could help the poor. Let me be blunt about it, without dampening anyone's motivation and ambition to do well.
Because if you just do well, they're going to take it away from you and give it to someone who's sitting home playing video games.
PHILLIP: You're talking about a universal basic income. AIDALA: No. I'm talking -- I'm talking about -- I'm talking about people. I'm talking about people. I'm talking about people who are doing well, helping their brother or sister who are struggling in a way that again, that is equitable. Not that you're -- you're pulling money out of their hands, but I think we could do better in terms of helping those in need.
ENTEN: You know, my father was born in 1927 and by the time he was 2, the Great Depression was getting underway with the stock market crash. By the time he was 14 years old, the Nazis had risen power in Germany and the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. By the time my father was 18 years old, we were getting out of World War II. All of that happened in 18 years of my father's life.
And I look at that back and I look, wow, what tremendous strife there was in that era. Wow, look at that great income inequality that we had during that era. And again, I just go back to what we were talking about at the beginning. You know, I don't know if it's a bold prediction or not, but I look back at time and while the past isn't always prologue, I do believe we tend to find our ways out of things because of the innovation that comes out of this country.
And now a sharp 180 degree turn. Speaking of that innovation, I believe in self-driving cars for the future. I really believe that that's a technology go, go, go.
AIDALA: We have that.
ENTEN: But we have it but I mean it's going to be --
CHAMPION: For the person who doesn't drive.
ENTEN: Right. To be implemented nationwide. That's what I'm talking about.
PHILLIP: Very important.
CHAMPION: He's like -- Harry --
ENTEN: It's a very important which is going to happen first. Me got the license of the self-driving car.
AIDALA: You have a self-driving car. It's called Uber. It's called Uber.
ENTEN: Her name is called my girlfriend.
CHAMPION: I actually was going to say that.
ENTEN: There you go.
AIDALA: You just need a car seat for your wallet because that's the biggest wallet --
ENTEN: We've ever seen.
AIDALA: I mean someone's got to zoom in on this.
CHAMPION: He's rich.
AIDALA: And here's the thing.
CHAMOPN: He's rich.
AIDALA: Yes, that's -- that's how he rolls. That's how he rolls.
PHILLIP: He has -- he's got -- he's going to need all those credit cards --
ENTEN" There you go.
PHILLIP: -- for self-driving cars.
CHAMPION: That's funny. OK, so a long friend along those lines. I do appreciate the optimism, I really do. And you said this at the top of the show. The idea of America to be able to self-correct. I do believe in the form of self, like in that same idea of self-correction. This is bold and maybe perhaps it's a choice that I want on my own. I think that we're going to abandon the internet. I think that the way that we rely on the internet is so debilitating in terms of how we think.
[08:45:05]
I think it's made us less smart as a culture. I think that it's given us the Cliff Notes to life. We used Claude for everything. And in my mind, I'm all like, what happened to those old days where we used to just really think or research or bring back maps for that matter?
AIDALA: I don't even want to drive to my house.
CHAMPION: And we talked about this in a way that seems like, oh, no, that can't be. But it actually can be. I think we might eat our own. And we're going to find a way to get rid of this system that has really stopped us from communicating in a real way, in a functioning way. No one writes anymore, W-Y-A-T-T-Y-L.
AIDALA: How about a post?
CHAMPION: You know what I mean? How about, you know, and the other thing that we don't do, Arthur, and this is what the internet has taught you, is to interrupt everybody. Don't want to hear your opinion. The internet doesn't taught you how to interrupt everybody. Don't want to hear you.
AIDALA: Keep touching me.
PHILLIP: I was going to say something serious, but I feel like --
CHAMPION: I know, you know, it's over now the moment.
PHILLIP: That you guys have your moment. All right, next for us. Before they get fired up at the grill, our panel shares their dream barbecue guest. But first, the celebration is just getting started. Join Anderson Cooper as he hosts CNN's "Fourth in America," celebrating 250 years with the biggest fireworks and stars. You can watch right here on CNN and stream it on CNN app.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:51:03]
PHILLIP: What's the 4th of July without being able to bring some of your favorite people with you? So who is coming to the cookout? Let's living or dead? Arthur, you're up first.
AIDALA: Well, first of all, the libations that are going to be there are very important. Fourth of July --
PHILLIP: Limoncello for everyone.
AIDALA: Yes, right. So the four people I picked, two are very good friends of mine, but I know they're the life of the party. One is a friend of yours, Geraldo Rivera. And at 83, Geraldo is full of life. It's his birthday today, so happy birthday, Geraldo.
PHILLIP: Happy birthday, Geraldo.
AIDALA: Lawrence Taylor, who is the greatest defensive football player of all time. That's undisputed. He is a riot.
PHILLIP: You always like him.
AIDALA: Yes, he's a doll. And then I, you know, Bill Clinton, maybe not Bill Clinton now, maybe Bill Clinton 10 years ago. I think he's a brilliant storyteller and he's going to bring a lot of life to the party. And then I would like to see how guys who are a lot older, like JFK, how, you know, and what his take on the world would be. And all of us sitting around with some beer, some wine, some pasta, some steaks. I'm sure we'd have a great time. It would be a memorable, memorable evening.
PHILLIP: It sounds interesting. Say the least. That's quite a group of people. All right, Harry.
CHAMPION: Yes.
ENTEN: Harry, I thought we were going to go around the torn. I like this. I like this flip. I like this. All right, I'll go ahead. You know, I struggled with this little bit, but I'll give you a few names that, you know, I sort of thought of. You know, I thought of Ben Franklin. I mean, come on. You know, with a wallet this size, I had to have Ben Franklin right there. I love Willie Mays, of course, who was the great center fielder for the New York Giants and then San Francisco Giants and then Albert Einstein. I mean, I had his poster in my college room. Just a genius.
So those are my answers. I just think the three of them, that would be a very interesting mix of folks. And on a more serious end, I would love my girlfriend and my father to be there because they have never met.
PHILLIP: What?
ENTEN: Because my father unfortunately born in '27. Yes.
PHILLIP: Oh yes.
ENTEN: So the idea of the two of them coming together and meeting, I think they would enjoy each other's company.
PHILLIP: That's sweet.
AIDALA: For the record, I had a poster of a Lamborghini and Farrah Fawcett on my wall. Not Albert Einstein. I just --
ENTEN: Slight difference between the two of us.
AIDALA: That's how the Brooklyn roll.
ENTEN: That's about America.
AIDALA: But, you know. Yes.
PHILLIP: All right, Cari, now you can go.
CHAMPION: OK, so I am going to -- this will be interesting. So at the cookout, because you corrected me earlier. Very appropriate. I'm going to have James Baldwin, I'm going to have Bruce Lee, and I'm going to have Jesus. And we're all going to say it. Shout out to the graphics guy.
(CROSSTALK)
AIDALA: I was going to say Jesus by myself, I did think about Jesus.
CHAMPION: But there -- there is a quote, and I -- that's what I was looking for when you were.
AIDALA: I don't know how Jesus and Lawrence Taylor get along.
CHAMPION: I don't know if they would. But not everything that is faced can be changed. But nothing can change until it is faced. And so James Baldwin, for me, always looked at America with a very critical eye, but also a hopeful eye.
ENTEN: Yes.
CHAMPION: And so if I could live in a world where we could do both and then find a way in which we can come together, to me, that would be what America would be. Like you -- I said this before on the show, the two can coexist. You don't have to compare and downgrade one. You can also uplift both. And that's what I really loved about him.
And I think Bruce Lee has a wonderful philosophy. I want him to teach me how to fight. And then, of course, I am a Christian and I would love to ask Jesus, what is the meaning of life and why are we here? Am I on the road and I am on the path? What am I doing? What am I doing? AIDALA: How to walk on to the water. That's a cool trip.
CHAMPION: Oh that, too. But those would be the folks at my cookout.
FOSTER: That's good.
PHILLIP: That's deep, deep thinkers.
FOSTER: I'm going to some issues scheduling wise to make sure none is not on the same day as yours, because James Baldwin has to come to my cookout. That was the top of my list, actually.
CHAMPION: OK. OK.
FOSTER: And then there's a bevy of other writers and thinkers and musicians. Cormac McCarthy is on there. Annie Dillard, and in terms of the other folks, Clarice Lispector, who's not an American but is someone who is just really speaks to me in a lot of important ways. Pharrell would definitely make the list.
PHILLIP: Wow.
FOSTER: Rick Rubin and I thought about inviting Kanye, and I will definitely give him honorable mention.
[08:55:05]
My issue is --
PHILLIP: Interesting.
FOSTER: I think he would just -- he would disrupt the party altogether again.
PHILLIP: Not doing with Kanye again.
FOSTER: But I want to have -- these are people who I want to corner at the cookout, have deep conversation, talk about the things they've made.
AIDALA: It's up for July 4th. You guys are having philosophers.
PHILLIP: I know.
AIDALA: And who's --
CHAMPION: You do all the things.
PHILLIP: I don't know what --
CHAMPION: Jesus turned water into wine. We drink it. What are you talking about?
AIDALA: All right. I'm done that. I'm done that.
FOSTER: We have the deep conversation to cookout. PHILLIP: I'm going to need Rihanna to show up to get the party started.
AIDALA: That's good.
PHILLIP: Keke Palmer.
AIDALA: That's my kind of party.
PHILLIP: I don't want to have any deep conversation.
AIDALA: Thank you.
PHILLIP: No.
AIDALA: That's why she's the host.
PHILLIP: We are having fun. Thank you very much, everyone. Thank you so much for watching. Thanks for watching Table for Five. You can catch me every weeknight at 10:00 p.m. Eastern with our NewsNight roundtable. But in the meantime, CNN's coverage continues right now.
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