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CNN The Point

What Does Gary Condit Have to Say to Regain His Constituents' Trust?

Aired August 23, 2001 - 20:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: THE POINT WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN.

He tells his story in 90 minutes, and his letter to the voters is in the mail. Will anyone be satisfied?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I don't really think that I could vote for the man, with his morals.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I got nothing against him. I'll vote for him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Tonight, we look down the road at what's ahead for Congressman Gary Condit.

Why does Hollywood think it's funny to dress up this woman like this?

Plus, your thoughts on Gary Condit's conduct.

And Jesse Helms plans to retire.

THE POINT. Sitting in for Greta Van Susteren is Deborah Norville in New York.

DEBORAH NORVILLE, GUEST HOST: And good evening, everybody.

The nation is getting ready to watch Gary Condit's prime time moment. Can it possibly live up to everyone's expectations?

Tonight's "Flashpoint," his side of the story.

Gary Condit pretaped his interview with ABC's Connie Chung this afternoon. In it, Condit says he had a close relationship with Levy that lasted five months but would not say if the two had sexual relations. ABC is also reporting that Condit says he was not in love with Chandra Levy, but that he liked her very much. Condit also told Connie Chung that he has no idea what happened to Levy and cannot think of anyone who wanted to harm her.

Voters in Gary Condit's district today got an early preview of his side of the story. A letter from the congressman arrived in many of his constituents' mailboxes this morning. It too makes no direct reference to his purported affair with Chandra Levy.

But in the letter, Condit criticizes the news media for turning the tragedy of her disappearance into, quote, "a spectacle."

Condit goes on, "Before speaking with the media, I wanted to write to you. I've known so many of you for a long time. You know me to be hard-working, committed to our issues, and dedicated to my community and my family. I hope you also will understand that I am not perfect and have made my share of mistakes."

That letter was sent to more than 200,000 people in Condit's congressional district, including Chandra Levy's family. Camera crews watched Mrs. Levy read it. That letter, as well as the television and print interviews that Condit is giving, are parts of a carefully orchestrated public relations offensive.

With us now on the telephone from Merced, California, where a pro-Condit rally is gearing up, is Carla Marinucci of "The San Francisco Chronicle." Ms. Marinucci, did the letter go over the way Congressman Condit might have hoped it would?

CARLA MARINUCCI, "THE SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE" (on phone): Deborah, I don't think so. We have talked to Democrat after Democrat in this district today. A lot of them are angry. They didn't even receive the letter. They went to Condit's office. They were turned away. They were told to talk to his public relations people in Washington to get a copy. That didn't go over well.

And the Democrats we talked to said it didn't have enough detail, no apology, no explanation. Many of them said they were disappointed this three-page letter just didn't address a lot of the issues that they wanted to be addressed. And even some of his strongest supporters here are saying he would have better spent the money, the $70,000 he spent to send this out, by having town hall meetings, by seeing people face to face.

And that's from some of his strongest folks. At this point, this rally which is gearing up, only a handful of Condit supporters are here, and this doesn't bode well for him.

NORVILLE: Is the disappointment such that he can repair it if he says the right things in this ABC interview tonight?

MARINUCCI: You know, nobody counts Gary Condit out in this district. He has never lost an election for 30 years. He has a very strong constituent base. He's had a good relationship with them for a long time. But this is stressing even the strongest supporters, I think. We heard time after time again today, people expressing a lot of disappointment with this letter.

So I think he still has a long way to go. NORVILLE: Seems to me there's two things the congressman has to address. One is, did he have anything, in fact, to do with the disappearance of Chandra Levy? And the second is, how does he explain what many people believe was a lack of candor, both to authorities investigating the disappearance, and his own constituents? What do you think the verdict is going to be locally in the district?

MARINUCCI: You know, they want details. And more than anything, I hear people say, We need to look in his eyes. We need to see him face to face. We need him to do these local meetings in town, to talk to us. There are still no plans for any of that to happen. And that's where I think some of the problems are coming for Condit today. The letter, 29 sentences is not enough to explain four months of silence. And he has got to do a lot of constituent work.

So I -- you know, I think he has a -- as time goes by, we're going to have to see more from Condit and hear a lot more details. That's what people here are saying.

NORVILLE: You say there's just a handful of people gathering for this pro-Condit rally. Is there a counter-Condit rally massing as well, or is it pretty much a nonevent there?

MARINUCCI: No, it's surprising, because this is the place, we expected, where people would turn out and show their support for Condit on the night when he's launched this big media relations campaign. There are police here, as if -- I appear the -- it appears that they expected some kind of trouble. There are really only a handful of people with the Condit signs, and media far outnumber them.

If that at all reflects what's going on in the 18th Congressional District here in the Central Valley, then Condit has a lot of problems. If people aren't coming out for him in his time of need, then his future is in doubt.

NORVILLE: Well, a lot of that future is going to be determined later this evening when he conducts that interview on television. Carla Marinucci, thank you for being with us from Merced.

And now let's go to a couple of people who will certainly know what Gary Condit has to do when he conducts that interview this evening.

Looking at his long-range prospects, let's check in now with Sun Valley, Idaho, with Republican consultant Bob Rusbuldt. And joining us from Sacramento is California's Democratic Party adviser, Bob Mullholland.

Gentlemen, you just heard our reporter on the scene tell us how few people have turned out for Gary Condit. Let's go to the Democratic side first. Bob Mullholland, what does that tell you?

BOB MULLHOLLAND, CALIFORNIA DEMOCRATIC ADVISER: Well, first of all, I don't think anyone announced that we're going to have lots of people there. I think that the most important thing is that Congressman Condit sent a letter to his constituents. And obviously the reporters will always track down the two or three dozen people that say, Oh, it's not enough, it's not enough.

This is just the first chapter in a several-month attempt to reconnect to the voters. And I think ultimately Gary Condit will. Remember, he did make it very clear today and in the interviews that he had nothing to do with this woman's disappearance, and that's the real issue. Unfortunately, the press focuses on the relationship. And the Levy family two days ago asked Gary Condit through their lawyer not to talk about the relationship. So I think that we ought to focus on the missing woman.

Then as far as the politics, Condit will be back, and people should not underestimate him. Because on March 5, we'll see who the Republicans have, some scoundrel that's not going to be able to take the same type of questioning.

NORVILLE: Well, there is a sec -- a third issue as well. There's the disappearance, there's the relationship, and there is the congressman's actions with respect to the investigation. Many constituents don't believe he's been as forthcoming as he should have been.

MULLHOLLAND: I think that's kind of a false story. I -- let's face it, the family, the Levy family, told the police from day one that there was a relationship. So it's not like the police did not know about it. Because obviously the Levy family did not withhold that information.

Second point is, the press and a lot of the Republican pundits act as if they know what the police know, and that's ridiculous. I think there's a lot of premature judgment on this case. And it reminds me of the security guy that got blamed for the bombing in Atlanta at the Olympics when it turned out he had nothing to do with it.

NORVILLE: Bob Mullholland, you're in a rather interesting position, because not only are you a Republican (sic) strategist who's worked with a number of Republican candidates, but you also are a personal friend of Gary Condit's. What kind of pressure is he feeling today?

MULLHOLLAND: Well, I'm not a personal friend. I know Gary Condit. He worked in the state -- he was an assembly member, you know, over a dozen years ago. I would think -- lookit, he has nothing to do with the woman's disappearance, so this is political pressure, and obviously he has a lot of work to reconnect to the voters of that district.

And as Carla pointed out, Carla Marinucci pointed out, is that this guy Condit's been elected for 30 years. And I think ultimately a lot of the voters in this district (UNINTELLIGIBLE) going to resent the kind of judgment calls by a lot of press and a lot of pundits. And you got to remember, the election, the real election, November, is -- 2002, is 15 months away. So that's a long time.

NORVILLE: Indeed it is.

Bob Rusbuldt, you are Gary Condit's friend, though, and you must know something about what this man is feeling today.

BOB RUSBULDT, REPUBLICAN CONSULTANT: Well, you know, Gary Condit is a man who's a family man, you know, for years he has put his family first. He's the son of a Baptist minister. And clearly Gary is hurting inside, there's no doubt about that, as anyone in this position would be.

I agree with half of what Bob said as far as the polls and some of the other things he mentioned. But I have to tell you, this is really a bipartisan problem that people recognize here. It's not the Republican pundits that are saying Gary's in trouble. Bob Beckel was on TV saying the same thing today.

Gary has 15 months, as Bob said, to make that up, and 15 months in politics, Deborah, is an eternity. We all know that. Just look at Bill Clinton, he came back.

But Gary Condit so far has not done what he needs to do. He's not connecting with his constituents. The polls show it. In fact, the polls show that if the election were held today, he would not win. Twenty-five percent of the people in his district believe he's telling the truth, 75 percent believe he's not telling the truth. He has got major...

NORVILLE: So what does he need to do tonight...

RUSBULDT: ... political problems.

NORVILLE: ... in that television interview? What does he need to do when he's in front of that camera?

RUSBULDT: He needs to do more...

NORVILLE: Mr. Rusbuldt.

RUSBULDT: ... than he did in -- he needs to do more, Deborah, than he did in the letter. The letter was a net negative for Gary, unfortunately. Gary was not forthcoming in that letter, and clearly that letter was written by lawyers, not his political advisers, because it would have been a very different letter if his political advisers had written that.

Tonight...

NORVILLE: Bob Mullholland...

RUSBULDT: ... he needs to...

MULLHOLLAND: I just disagree with that. I think that, again, people make these prejudgments. I mean, with 15 months to go, today the letter is the first chapter of a long-time book that's going to be written over the next few months. The interviews are just one part of it. Is...

NORVILLE: But do you think it was a good letter? MULLHOLLAND: Oh, absolutely, I thought it was, because he made it very clear he had nothing to do with the disappearance. And I think most voters in that district are welcome to conclude that, just as the authorities in Washington, D.C., have said numerous times.

RUSBULDT: We learned, we learned nothing new from this letter today, nothing that hasn't been in the press before.

MULLHOLLAND: No, no, I would disagree with you...

RUSBULDT: And frankly...

MULLHOLLAND: ... disagree with you on the basis that he is now starting his communication to the voters. And I know all the pundits have been criticizing him for not having interviews every day, and that's not the way you handle a situation like this.

NORVILLE: Well, let me stop you both right there. You've got 15 seconds, you're Gary Condit, what do you want to say on national television tonight to turn this in your favor?

MULLHOLLAND: Just answer the questions.

NORVILLE: Bob Rusbuldt.

RUSBULDT: The first thing -- the...

MULLHOLLAND: Go ahead.

RUSBULDT: The first thing you have to say is, I'm sorry. He had a five-month relationship with an intern. Apparently he told the police that it was a sexual relationship. He didn't say that with Connie Chung tonight. But he needs to apologize. People want to hear that. They expected to see that in the letter, they didn't.

Number two is, he needs to say why he wasn't forthcoming earlier on. Why did he wait four months to say what he knows when he was telling police four months ago what he apparently knew then?

So he's got...

NORVILLE: And Bob...

RUSBULDT: ... a lot of things...

MULLHOLLAND: I...

RUSBULDT: ... he needs to say tonight.

MULLHOLLAND: Again, the Levy family, through their lawyer, said two days ago they did not want the congressman talking about that relationship. I know the press want him to talk about that. The key here is that the congressman's just starting to negotiate -- started discussions with the voters in his district.

Remember, ultimately under our system, they're the ones that decide, not the East Coast people, not the journalists, not the people in Sacramento, not Republicans or Democrats. It's ultimately the voters. And I think the voters will feel better about Gary over the next few months, given that...

RUSBULDT: It's -- it's the...

MULLHOLLAND: ... the Republicans are not exactly Mother Teresa's nephew.

NORVILLE: Well, we're going to leave it at that...

RUSBULDT: It's the vote, it's the voters...

NORVILLE: ... but a Freudian slip...

RUSBULDT: ... or the judicial system.

NORVILLE: ... a Freudian slip was made, the negotiation, I guess it is something of a negotiation with the constituents...

MULLHOLLAND: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) negotiation.

NORVILLE: ... of California's 18th District. Bob Mullholland, our thanks to you.

MULLHOLLAND: Thanks.

NORVILLE: Bob Rusbuldt, our thanks to you as well.

RUSBULDT: Thank you, Deborah.

NORVILLE: And of course we will be watching later this evening.

Watching politicians isn't usually at the top of most people's to-do lists in the month of August. Going to the movies is more like it. But one of Hollywood's favorite tricks this summer is starting to bug some people. One look at Gwyneth Paltrow and "Shallow Hal" and you can see why. Hollywood's plus-size showdown when THE POINT returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NORVILLE: Our mothers always said, it isn't nice to make fun of other people. But Hollywood is betting it will sell movie tickets. How else do you explain Gwyneth Paltrow's star turn in the upcoming comedy "Shallow Hal"? The plot line goes something like this. Man falls for a 300-pound woman because of her inner beauty.

Earlier this summer, "America's Sweethearts" treated us to the sight of Julia Roberts looking, well, not like Erin Brockovich. And the trend is not exactly new. Eddie Murphy donned fat suits for last year's "Nutty Professor 2: The Klumps."

And people have noticed. The Screen Actors Guild says there is great enthusiasm about establishing what's being called a plus-size subcommittee. Once all the approvals are done and the committee meets, maybe they'll tell us what our mothers already knew.

Here to discuss Hollywood's sense of humor when it comes to body image are Frances White, a member of the board of directors for the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance. She's with us this evening from San Francisco. And in San Diego is singer-actress and activist Candye Kane, with a K, and Jeffrey Wells is with us from Los Angeles. He writes a movie column for the Web site Reel.com.

Thanks to all of you for being with us.

Fat characters in a movie is nothing new. Is this suddenly becoming a trend this summer?

FRANCES WHITE, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF FAT ACCEPTANCE: I think it's unfortunate...

NORVILLE: Ms. White, I'll go to you first.

WHITE: ... a very unfortunate trend, because when thin actors put on a fat suit, it's like a white actor putting on blackface. And beyond that, they have not had a lifetime of living as a fat person, and so they're very often ungainly, and they walk around as though they're an astronaut landing on a planet with a heavy gravitational pull.

There's a lot of fat actors and actresses out there that should be employed instead, and they will move with grace. Think of how graceful someone like John Goodman is.

NORVILLE: Is the issue, then, that it's a thin actor wearing the fat cosmetic suit on his body? Or would you rather that the large- size character not be in the movie at all?

WHITE: I would rather the large-size character be portrayed by a fat actor, and it not be an unusual story line, something like the character that Lesley Boone plays on "Ed," or the young high school student. They're just part of the cast.

NORVILLE: I think the...

WHITE: Fat people are just average folks, you know. We come in all sizes and shapes and ages, and we have normal lives like anyone else.

CANDYE KANE, SIZE ACTIVIST: I think the issue -- hello? I think the issue is that fat people can be sexy, and I think that it -- they're using fat as a definition for ugly, and that's my main objection to this film. I don't want to seem humorless, but I think that fat people have love lives and are beautiful people, and I think that it's wrong when society points fingers at them.

If a Mexican was jumping into the pool and beans were splattered all over people instead of the fat actors jumping in the pool and the child being flung into a tree, all kinds of civil rights groups would be protesting. And on my CD, "The Toughest Girl Alive," I sing a lot about these kinds of issues, because I think it's important for people to realize that fat people can be sexy and provocative just like thin people can. And it's not a definition of ugly.

NORVILLE: Jeffrey Wells, what's your take on all of this?

JEFFREY WELLS, MOVIE COLUMNIST, REEL.COM: Fat people are very sweet, they're very nice, they're very good people, they're as good as they get. But the fact is that fat is an uncomfortable metaphor that makes people uncomfortable, because it reminds us that we lack discipline, that we have...

KANE: That's a stereotype.

WELLS: ... we get in debate -- I know it's a stereotype...

(CROSSTALK)

WELLS: ... but we all feel this, I understand it, but it's a very deep...

WHITE: Because, you know, you wouldn't say this about African- American actors.

NORVILLE: No, let him finish. Let, let...

KANE: You wouldn't say that African-Americans or Mexicans are typically a certain way, and it's not OK for them to say that about fat people. We're the last bastion of the culture that it's OK to bash, and, you know, I know it's -- you run a fine line between politically correctness and humorlessness, but it's important to realize that culturally, we have to live up to the expectations we face. And I think that the media needs to be socially responsible.

NORVILLE: But Hollywood wouldn't be throwing these characters out there if it didn't sell tickets. The fact is, people will go and see these movies...

KANE: The fact is also, though...

NORVILLE: ... and I don't know that it's because those characters are in there, but they're certainly not staying away because these, these huge characters, who may not be a realistic impression of, of society at large, you know, are in these films.

KANE: Yes, but it's also a fact that 75 percent of Americans are overweight. And when we put these kinds of images forth in our media, we are telling little girls that they're not OK the way they are. Most of us cannot live up to the thin expectation that is set before us culturally. And it's not OK to make people feel inadequate.

WELLS: Speaking of...

NORVILLE: Jeffrey, I'm sure you're -- yes, in your movie criticdom, I'm sure you've had occasion to talk to some of the directors and producers about this. What do they tell you?

WELLS: Well, James Mangold made a really wonderful little film called "Heavy" about three, four years ago. It was about a large cook who was in love with a young girl.

KANE: I have a son in that movie.

WELLS: That's an -- it's an excellent film, and it says all the right things. But the metaphor is very strongly within us. We all recognize it for what it is. I admit, it's an East and West Coast metaphor, which is Los Angeles, New York, where there's more thin people, more people work out. I realize 75 percent people are overweight, but there is that metaphor that does not make us feel all that good. That's why...

KANE: Yes, but...

WELLS: ... the release of seeing...

WHITE: It's time to change.

WELLS: ... of make -- you know...

(CROSSTALK)

NORVILLE: ... what you'd like to see the Screen Actors Guild come up with now that they're in the process of forming this committee? Ms. White, what would you like to see come of that?

WHITE: I would like to see writers write plot lines where fat people are average people, fat people can be villains, fat people can be love interest, teachers, business people, whatever. It should not be a point of reference. We do -- think of how our African-American actors or Latin actors who are overjoyed when they're offered a part that their ethnicity is not key to the role. It's just they were the best actor at the audition.

NORVILLE: Candye Kane, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that?

KANE: It's hard to keep -- it's hard to keep laughing when the joke is always on you. I agree that if we were portrayed as the love interest instead of the comedy punch line that it would be a lot better and more ideal. And I think that there's a dehumanizing factor when they call us rhinos and whales and things like that. I don't think we need to dehumanize each other to be funny.

And I also think that if, if we used fat people as the focus of something that was more realistic like real life, that maybe there wouldn't be so many eating disorders in this country and so many people grasping towards an unrealistic ideal.

NORVILLE: Jeffrey Wells...

WELLS: I'm not trying to -- I'm not...

NORVILLE: ... do you see that happening?

WELLS: I'm not trying to articulate a prejudice or disagree with these guys. I just happen to feel that there's a lot of us that are not fat or trying not to be fat that feel and believe deep down, and I think we all understand this, that, that, that heaviness is a result of, of, of not being disciplined...

KANE: But that's not true...

WELLS: ... (UNINTELLIGIBLE) no.

KANE: ... there's plenty of us that work out...

WELLS: I realize it's not entirely true, but...

KANE: ... plenty of us that swim and work out and are still heavy just because it's, you know, a genetic thing.

WELLS: Right, people -- some people are just naturally supposed to be that way, and that's fine. I'm not trying to be a bigot here. But the -- I realize I sound like a broken record, but I'm saying the same thing, that there's -- these are the very deep -- that's why it's funny, that's why the Farrelly brothers have used this...

KANE: Wouldn't, wouldn't she...

NORVILLE: Well, I thank you all. I think this is probably not an issue we will settle tonight, but I think we have made the point that it is an issue that exists, and it's one that we're all a little more sensitive now as a result of discussion.

Thanks to you, Frances White, Candye Kane, and also Jeffrey Wells out in California.

And tonight our final point will go to you, the viewers. We've got some thoughts on Gary Condit and also on Jesse Helms' retirement. First, though, a quick break and our "MONEYLINE Update."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NORVILLE: Finally tonight, quite a few viewers are e-mailing their thoughts about Congressman Gary Condit, but there's a big range of opinion. Cindy from Illinois sent us a series of questions for the congressman. "Did you kill Chandra Levy? Do you know what happened to her? Do you know where she is, dead or alive? Can anyone believe that if asked, Gary Condit is going to say yes to any of the above questions?"

And Bill from California writes, "The only thing Condit's done wrong was having the affair with Miss Levy. He owes an apology only to his wife."

But a Texas viewer has a different opinion. "Gary Condit wants to be forgiven for his mistakes and given a second chance. Does Chandra Levy have a second chance?"

And our discussion of Jesse Helms' retirement sparked a number of letters from the senator's opponents, but not one from his defenders. One viewer isn't happy with any politician. "I am happy that Jesse Helms is retiring. He and other politicians, Democrats included, who push their extremist views and expect us to agree with the polarizing legislation they support are part of what's wrong with American politics today. Good riddance."

And believe it or not, that was the nice one.

I'm Deborah Norville in New York. Thanks for watching.

Up next, Larry King continues CNN's countdown to Gary Condit's television interview. "Vanity Fair" magazine's Judy Bachrach joins Larry for an exclusive discussion of her recent interview with the controversial congressman.

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