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The Story Is with Elex Michaelson

Trump Expected To Sign Epstein Files Bill On Wednesday; Sacramento County DA Announces Congressional Bid; White House Hosts Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman; How to Regain The Trust of Americans at Work; Interview with Biden Adviser Mike Donilon about the 2024 Campaign; The Vocal Coach Behind Ariana Grande's "Wicked" Transformation. Aired 1-2a ET

Aired November 19, 2025 - 01:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN ANCHOR: The 40-year-old making history when he started the game, becoming the first NBA player to play in 23 seasons. And he did it wearing number 23 and those gold shoes. Lakers have been getting by with some big performances from Luka Doncic and Austin Reeves. LeBron might be a little rusty, only 11 points so far, but he keeps his streak going of getting double digits. Lakers are up big late in the fourth quarter on this one.

That's it for this hour, but stay with us for the next hour of The Story Is, which starts right now.

The Story Is the Epstein files will soon head to President Trump's desk. He says he'll release them.

The Story Is dinner day. Donald Trump and some of the richest people in America toast the crown prince of Saudi Arabia at the White House after they take tough questions about the killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

The Story Is --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE DONILON, FORMER SENIOR ADVISOR TO JOE BIDEN: I thought the Democratic Party lost its mind.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: -- Joe Biden's top advisor slams the Democratic Party for pushing him out of the presidential race. An exclusive sit down with me.

The Story Is building trust in the workplace. Minda Harts trained some of the top executives in the world. Now she's in our studio to help train you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Live from Los Angeles, "The Story Is with Elex Michelson."

MICHAELSON: And welcome to The Story Is. I'm Elex Michelson. A bill compelling the Justice Department to release all the Epstein files is now on its way to the president's desk. President Trump says he will sign it, likely on Wednesday. It won support from all but one Republican across both the House and the Senate.

It's a remarkable turnaround for the president and Republican loyalists who had been attempting to stop it. The speaker of the House, Mike Johnson, says all Republicans wanted to go on the record to show their support for maximum transparency after not necessarily being in favor of that for a long time. And the Senate leader, Chuck Schumer, Senate's top Democrat, I should say. Chuck Schumer, insists, quote, "The fight continues until the American people see all of the documents."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), MINORITY LEADER: This isn't about Democrats versus Republicans or about Congress versus the president. This is about giving the American people the transparency they've been crying for. This is about holding accountable all the people in Jeffrey Epstein's circle who raped, groomed, targeted and enabled the abuse of hundreds of girls for years and years. The American people have waited long enough.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As many of us who are looking at our phones know that the Senate has passed the bill under unanimous --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: Epstein survivors also gathered in Washington on Tuesday after the vote. They held this vigil honoring all Epstein victims saying their names, including the names of those who have passed. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TERESA J. HELM, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: And my name is Teresa J. Helm.

WENDY AVIS PASSANTE, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: My name is Wendy Avis. That's my maiden name, but I go by Passante (ph). So, Wendy Passante.

JENA-LISA JONES, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: My name is Jena-Lisa Jones.

LARA BLUME MCGEE, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: My name is Lara Blume McGee.

DANI BENSKY, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: My name is Dani Bensky.

LIZ STEIN, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: My name is Liz Stein.

LISA PHILLIPS, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: For the survivors at home, I'm Lisa Phillips.

RINA OH, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: My name is Rina Oh. And I brought these flowers for someone who couldn't be here with us. Her name is Carolyn Adriano, and she passed away in 2023.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: CNN's Kristen Holmes joins me now from the White House.

Kristen, thanks so much for being with us. Talk about the significance of this moment, one President Trump maybe thought would never happen.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And it's not just that President Trump didn't think this was happening. There's a lot of us in the press corps that weren't sure this was ever going to happen because we saw what President Trump was putting forward to try and get this vote to not even make it to the floor. He was putting all kinds of pressure on these various lawmakers. And when it comes to President Trump's second term, we don't see a lot of pushback from these Republicans.

But it became clear to him at the end of last week that he was not going to win this battle. Not only was this vote going to come to the floor, but it seemed as though Republicans were going to pass it and pass it by a large margin. So here we are now waiting for that bill to come from Congress over to the president's desk. We are told that that is expected to happen tomorrow morning. Of course, huge margins, almost unanimous in the House, unanimously moved forward in the Senate.

It will go from the House to the Senate, all the way to President Trump's desk. And we're told by White House officials that as soon as he has it, he will be signing it. Now, of course, the question is going to be is this going to be one of his signings that has all the pomp and circumstance, the cameras there, or given what we know and how he feels about the topic of Epstein overall, is this something he signs quietly behind closed doors? And I've been told by officials they don't expect the White House, President Trump to stand in the way of any of these documents being released. But there's still a question as to what exactly is going to be released by the Department of Justice and when.

[01:05:21]

One of the big questions, Elex, is this idea of whether or not the Southern District of New York, which has now opened this new investigation into Democrats after President Trump asked Pam Bondi, the attorney general, to whether or not they're going to say, well, we can't turn these documents over because they're now part of an active investigation. I was told by the White House it's not going to happen. But just to be very clear, you know, yes, they are operate together often in this administration in terms of the Justice Department and the White House, but they are still a separate entity. So how that plays into the investigation, it's still unclear.

MICHAELSON: And you know, do we expect certain aspects of this to leak out in advance or the pre spinning of this? I mean, because, you know, do we have any sense of what's coming?

HOLMES: We don't have a sense of exactly of what is coming. So one of the things to keep in mind here is that a lot of what exists, the White House says, and the Department of Justice says they aren't legally allowed to release. That means that's people's names, whether it's people who have not been convicted of a crime, so putting their names out there, or it's victims who don't necessarily want to have their names and their stories out there. We know that's generally what is in these documents. But is there a list?

Is there various files? Is there detailed accounts? We don't have that information. But I can tell you one thing, when it comes to the White House, their strategy for all of this has been to, one, follow President Trump's lead. And when it comes to President Trump, he has wanted to essentially avoid all of this until it comes out and then have the White House react to it.

Unclear if that's the same strategy he goes with here. We know there are advisers inside the White House who would like to get ahead of it if they can, if they get some information from the Department of Justice ahead of time so they can try to craft their own narrative. But again, they're going to be looking to President Trump and historically in this administration and when it comes to this specific issue, he has not wanted to get out there and drive the cycle or drive the story forward.

MICHAELSON: It'll be interesting to see if there are other stories that all of a sudden pop up or are leaked in the days ahead to maybe distract from what could be coming in the days ahead. Kristen Holmes reporting from a cold and wet Washington, D.C. for us. Thanks so much, Kristen. Appreciate it.

HOLMES: Thank you.

MICHAELSON: Joining me now from Sacramento, where it's finally not raining after several days of that, is the district attorney, Thien Ho, who has just announced his bid to run for Congress and represent California's new 6th District, formed after the passage of Prop 50. Welcome to The Story Is and congrats on the run.

THIEN HO, SACRAMENTO COUNTY, DA: Thank you so much for having me on your show. It's an honor.

MICHAELSON: Thank you very much. We'll want to talk about your race in a moment. But first, I want to talk about your expertise as a prosecutor and as someone who wants to be in Congress and to deal with these sort of issues. What's your reaction to the Epstein files and what should we expect to see in the coming weeks?

HO: First of all, I've been a prosecutor for 25 years. I prosecuted sex offenders, serial rapists and pedophiles. And what I can tell you, it's about time that Donald Trump and the Republican Party stopped stalling and obstructing the release of these files. We need to stand up for victims, stand up for survivors instead of politicians and billionaires. And what we expect to see in these files are names.

What we expect to see in these files are details about how Jeffrey Epstein was grooming the victims and how other people were taking advantage of those victims and enabling a pedophile. So it's going to be explosive, it's going to be revealing, and it's about time that it gets released to the public. MICHAELSON: Why the decision for you to run for Congress?

HO: You know, as a refugee from Vietnam, as an immigrant, as the prosecutor who brought the Golden State Killer to justice. I've spent an entire career protecting and fighting for the vulnerable, the voiceless, the victims. And so I'm running for Congress to defend public safety and our freedoms, to reduce the cost of living so that the American dream in California is within reach of everybody. I remember coming to this country as an immigrant and really rising up to grit and determination, and that's -- that American dream, that Californian dream needs to be within reach of everybody.

MICHAELSON: And your announcement video, which we've been looking at right now, features that issue of immigration prominently. What's the big difference if you get to Congress on the issue of immigration?

HO: Immigration is a personal matter to me. As an immigrant and a refugee, what I can tell you is a third of California's workforce are immigrants. They are our scientists, our grocery store clerks, our nurses. They keep our community running.

[01:10:04]

And what we are seeing here across the country with these immigration raids is Donald Trump using fear, using divisiveness, using vitriol to distract attention away from his failures.

Yes, we need to have policies that are comprehensive in dealing with immigration, but we need to do so in a way that is compassionate. I remember coming to this country and learning how to speak English, to watching Bugs Bunny cartoons. I remember being afraid and translating from my mother. This is personal. And we need to make sure that we are imbuing our policies with compassion and being inclusive.

MICHAELSON: A lot of people may know you from the Golden State Killer case, which you referenced, which was one of the most notorious killers in the history of California for decades. The case went unsolved. This is your new book about your experience there, "The People versus the Golden State Killer." Netflix has done a lot on this. A lot of people have followed this around the world.

How did that experience of prosecuting that case inform you in terms of your congressional run?

HO: You know, the Golden State Killer committed 13 known murders, 50 sexual assaults, and 120 burglaries in 11 different counties. And in the true crime genre, people focus on the criminal and on the crimes. I wanted to focus on the victims and the survivors, amplifying their story to make sure that we tell their story, how they turn tragedy into triumph, pain into power. And that has always imbued everything I do in terms of speaking and fighting for the vulnerable, the voiceless and the victims.

MICHAELSON: Thien Ho, the current prosecutor for Sacramento County who wants to be the next congressman from California, thank you so much for joining us on launch day for you. Appreciate it. HO: Thank you.

MICHAELSON: The White House rolled out the red carpet to welcome the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, Mohammed bin Salman. During a star studded dinner in the East Room, the President announced that he is designating Saudi Arabia as a major non NATO ally. The announcement comes as both nations finalize a defense treaty. See Elon Musk among the attendees at this event tonight. Part of that defense treaty is the sale of U.S. F-35 fighter jets. The Speaker, Mike Johnson, also there tonight.

Now, the crown Prince's visit to Washington is his first since the 2018 murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi. Despite his repeated denial of any involvement, the CIA did conclude that Prince bin Salman had ordered the killing himself during the first Trump administration. But on Tuesday, the President vouched for the Saudi heir and went against his own intelligence committee, clashing with a reporter from ABC News, Mary Bruce, over her question about the incident in the Oval Office.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARY BRUCE, ABC NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Mr. President, is it appropriate, Mr. President, for your family to be doing business in Saudi Arabia while you're president? Is that a conflict of interest?

And your royal highness, the U.S. intelligence concluded that you orchestrated the brutal murder of a journalist. 9/11 families are furious that you are here in the Oval Office. Why should Americans trust you?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Who are you with?

BRUCE: And the same to you, Mr. President.

TRUMP: No, who are you with?

BRUCE: I'm with ABC News, sir.

TRUMP: You're with who?

BRUCE: ABC News, sir.

TRUMP: Fake news. ABC fake news. One of the worst --

BRUCE: But the question is --

TRUMP: -- one of the worst in the business. But I'll answer your question.

BRUCE: Thank you.

TRUMP: I have nothing to do with the family business. I have left. And when I -- I've devoted 100 percent of my energy. What my family does is fine. They do business all over. They've done very little with Saudi Arabia, actually. I'm sure they could do a lot.

As far as this gentleman is concerned, he's done a phenomenal job. You're mentioning somebody that was extremely controversial. A lot of people didn't like that gentleman that you took talking about. Whether you like him or didn't like him, things happen, but he knew nothing about it and we can leave it at that. You don't have to embarrass our guests by asking a question like that --

MOHAMMED BIN SALMAN, SAUDI CROWN PRINCE: But they're just asking, Mr. President.

TRUMP: -- personal stuff. Yes.

BIN SALMAN: Allow me to answer. You know, I feel painful about, you know, the families of 9/11 in America, but you know, we have to focus on reality. About the journalists, It's really painful to hear, you know, anyone that been losing his life for, you know, no real purpose or not in a legal way. And it's been painful for us in Saudi Arabia. We've did all the right steps of investigation, et cetera, in Saudi Arabia.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: Joining me live now from London, where it's 6:13 in the morning on Wednesday, is Sanam Vakil, director of the Middle East and North African program at Chatham House. Thanks so much for being with us. Welcome to The Story Is.

SANAM VAKIL, DIRECTOR, MIDDLE EAST & NORTH AFRICA PROGRAM, CHATHAM HOUSE: Good morning or good evening for you.

MICHAELSON: Who knows what time it is. Good morning to you. Thank you so much for being with us. Big, big night in Washington. What do you make of that exchange and the sort of extraordinary open arms that President Trump is giving to MBS?

[01:15:08]

VAKIL: Well, kudos for the journalists who, you know, press these very sensitive but important issues. Mohammed bin Salman's trip back to the White House was -- is a very important one because he comes back to Washington more confident and he's definitely strengthened his ties with this U.S. president signing a number of very important deals. And this is almost his return visit where he was hoping to not have any of these tough questions addressed. The fact that he tried to answer them and show that this was a difficult period and tried to acknowledge Jamal Kashoggi in some way, I think signals some maturity. But the reality is that difficult questions between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia on human rights, on the killing of Khashoggi have been put to the side for now.

And this is a very strategic transactional relationship that has developed.

MICHAELSON: Khashoggi, his wife spoke with our colleague Jake Tapper on "The Lead." Here's some of what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HANAN ELATR KHASHOGGI, JAMAL KHASHOGGI'S WIDOW: It's a hell. It's a seven years of hell, sir. It is -- basically I'm a second -- I'm a second victim. They killed Jamal and they killed me in the same day they killed him. I don't have any normal life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: Obviously very difficult for her and I'm sure she didn't like what they said in the Oval Office. But you mentioned this idea of a transactional strategic relationship. What is each side getting out of this?

VAKIL: Well, for Saudi Arabia I think clear wins. This is a relationship that of course is historical and is evolving. The Saudi U.S. defense agreement is moving forward. President Trump announced that Saudi Arabia will be a non NATO ally of the United States. This fast tracks access to military equipment.

Saudi Arabia will be able to join Israel in accessing the advanced fighter jets known as the F-35s which is a very strong signal of Saudi Arabia's role and weight for the United States. Saudi Arabia also is securing civilian nuclear cooperation with the United States as well. And that is advancing. Although the deal clearly isn't finalized. Saudi Arabia wants to pursue a nuclear -- civil nuclear program as part of its diversification away from oil.

So this relationship for the kingdom is about investment and stronger defense and technology ties as well in the realm of AI for the Kingdom. For President Trump though he's getting deals on his side, the Kingdom committed not just to invest 600 billion in the United States, but 1 trillion. And for this deal making president that is looking to reanchor U.S. relationships to benefit the United States, this is a key selling point.

MICHAELSON: And there are some people that are watching this that will say that's a really good thing, right, that we have all this business investment, that some of the leaders of the biggest businesses in America are there and that this may help their companies.

VAKIL: Certainly. If the money does come through, I mean, I would put a question mark there, obviously, because these are commitments, they have to translate into tangible investments. And, you know, it's worthwhile noting that Saudi Arabia is not a global ATM vision 2030, which is tied to Mohammed bin Salman's vision for the future development of Saudi Arabia.

A huge transformation of the economy alongside society also is underpinned by the need for investment in the kingdom to transform the economy alongside that. And oil prices are just not as high as they were traditionally. So there will be a tension there and it will be important to watch where and when these investments come through.

MICHAELSON: It's such a high stakes event and such a fascinating study in power in real time with some of the richest, most powerful people in the world all in one space. Thank you so much for sharing your perspective. Really appreciate it. Thanks for getting up early for us.

VAKIL: Thank you very much.

[01:19:57]

MICHAELSON: Coming up, Japanese tourism could take a hit after China urges residents to stop traveling there. The latest in the growing tensions between those two countries. That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAN JARVIS, BRITISH SECURITY MINISTER: Our intelligence agencies have warned that China is attempting to recruit and cultivate individuals with access to sensitive information about Parliament and the U.K. government. MI5 have stated that this activity is being carried out by a group of Chinese intelligence officers, often masked through the use of cover companies or external headhunters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: Britain's domestic spy service is warning that Chinese spies are using websites like LinkedIn to build relationships with members of Parliament for Beijing to then use that to its advantage.

[01:25:07]

MI5's warning comes a month after U.K. prosecutors were forced to drop a case against two British men accused of spying on MPs for Beijing. At issue, the U.K. government's refusal to label China an enemy as required under the Official Secrets Act. The Chinese Embassy in London calls the allegations pure fabrication and malicious slander.

Japan has issued safety warnings to its citizens in China as a rift grows between Asia's two largest economies. The most serious diplomatic clash in years was prompted by Japan's prime minister who told lawmakers this month that a Chinese attack on Taiwan could trigger a military response. CNN's Kristie Lu Stout joins me live from Hong Kong, where it's 2:25 in the afternoon. Good afternoon, Kristie.

KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good to see you.

MICHAELSON: So the dispute between China and Japan is escalating --

STOUT: Yes, so this is the latest and you know --

MICHAELSON: -- more. Warnings have been issued. What's the latest? What's going on here?

STOUT: Yes, absolutely, Elex. You know, we have China and Japan, they are locked into this escalating dispute over Taiwan. It's prompted the Chinese government to warn its citizens against traveling in Japan. And now what we have is the governments in Japan and Taiwan are now issuing warnings of their own.

And the trigger of this was, of course, his comments by the Japanese prime minister to Parliament earlier this month when she was answering a question and said that a Chinese invasion on Taiwan would be an existential threat to Japan and could spark a military response that infuriated China. China has pushed back and I want to show you how.

Let's bring up this full screen graphic for you. This is how China has responded to those comments by the Japanese prime minister. It has done this, conducted coast guard patrols near disputed islands. It has also issued that travel warning to citizens against visiting Japan. Hong Kong has also been urging residents to exercise caution.

China has also suspended screenings of at least two Japanese films in China. And we also know that some Chinese airlines have been offering free refunds to citizens who cancel their flights to or from Japan.

And as these tensions continue to deepen, Japan and Taiwan are issuing warnings of their own. We've learned that Japan is now telling its citizens who are residing in China and to be careful, to increase caution when outside to avoid crowded areas. And this week, Taiwan is now issuing and passing out these new pamphlets to tell people there what to do in the event of a disaster, including a Chinese invasion. And these books, they include actionable advice like what to stockpile at home, even what to do if you come face to face with an enemy combatant.

Now, as this dispute drags on, there's going to be an economic cost to this, analysts say is going to hit the Japanese economy really hard. Already we've seen shares in Japanese companies that are linked tourism and linked to retail fall. Japanese leaders in the country have been urging the government, saying we need to engage, we need to find a timely resolution as they anticipate a freefall of Chinese travelers and Chinese money coming into Japan. But we really don't know what's going to happen next year. Back to you.

MICHAELSON: Yes. Is there any signs of dialogue or any sense of maybe how long this whole thing could go?

STOUT: You know, we talked to analysts about this and they're saying this could drag on for quite some time. I mean, look, you had that recent visit by a Japanese envoy going to China this week. No breakthrough. There was also hopes of a breakthrough to take place during the G20 taking place in South Africa this week. But China has said explicitly the Chinese premier will not meet with the Japanese leader.

So there are fears that this could persist. But not only that, that this spat between China and Japan could also potentially grow. You know, we have to remember China has a lot of levers that it could potentially use, including rare earths. China could potentially restrict the export of rare earth magnets to Japan. Japan desperately needs those for its big manufacturing base. But, you know, got to add, Elex, there is still no strong indication that China is seriously considering that just yet.

Back to you.

MICHAELSON: Big, big money at stake here. Kristie Lu Stout, thanks for joining us live --

STOUT: Yes.

MICHAELSON: -- from Hong Kong.

Americans are facing a crisis of confidence, especially in the workplace. Up next, speak live with an author whose new book explores how trust at work can be restored in these uncertain times. She coaches one of the biggest companies in the world, and she's here help coach you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[01:34:38]

MICHAELSON: Welcome back to THE STORY IS. I'm Elex Michaelson.

Let's take a look at today's top stories.

Peaceful protests have been held against the Trump administration's crackdown on immigration in North Carolina.

[01:34:47]

MICHAELSON: Federal officials say more than 200 undocumented immigrants have been arrested in Charlotte area over the past few days.

The governor there criticizing federal agents' tactics, saying they're causing widespread fear.

The Trump administration is putting up $1 billion to restart the Three-Mile Island nuclear plant on Tuesday. They said they had loaned the money to Constellation Energy to restart that plant. U.S. power demand is rising for the first time in two decades, as the use of energy-hungry technologies like A.I. increases.

Big win for Mark Zuckerberg as a court rules that Meta is not an illegal monopoly. The Federal Trade Commission said the company should be compelled to spin off two of its most popular platforms, Instagram and WhatsApp. But the judge agreed with Meta's argument that competition from YouTube and TikTok keeps it from having an unfair advantage.

Well, in the age of frequent layoffs and corporate scandals, it should come as no surprise that Americans are facing a trust crisis, especially at work. Minda Harts is a workplace equity expert and the author of "Talk to Me, Nice: The Seven Trust Languages for a Better Workplace". Minda joins me live right here in studio. Welcome. Thank you so much.

MINDA HARTS, WORKPLACE EQUITY EXPERT: Thank you for having me. MICHAELSON: So talk to me about the fact that you advocate for trust

in the workplace. Was there a particular experience that happened to you or what made you think about this?

HART: Yes. You know. I had a tough experience in the workplace when I was in my former life. And I had some moments where trust was eroded. And I think that sometimes trust erodes intentionally and unintentionally.

But in my case, I think that my manager, I didn't trust him anymore, you know, at times I didn't trust HR. And I think we all have those moments where we question if people -- if they're going to do what they say they're going to do, if they're going to have your back.

And I just found that I was always the only or always kind of fighting battles by myself, whereas there was no more trust. It was hanging on by a thread.

And I thought, we need to talk about that, because trust is a global language. We all know what it feels like when we have it at work. And we all know what it feels like when we don't.

MICHAELSON: So you have what you call the Seven Trust Languages for a Better Workplace. We'll put this up on the screen and sort of go through them. We're talking about transparency, security, demonstration, feedback, acknowledgment, sensitivity and follow- through.

Real quickly, walk me through that list.

HARTS: Right. So what I found is that when people say they don't trust someone that they work with, it's really an expectation gap. I have an expectation of you that you may not be aware of. And if we had that, then maybe we would have a little more trust.

So number one, transparency, clarity and honesty. Who doesn't love that?

MICHAELSON: Right. We need more of that.

HARTS: We need more of that.

Sensitivity, that's having more empathy, being aware of our behaviors and our actions. So I'm not going to tell you the joke that only I'm going to laugh at, right. Because that's going to erode trust.

Another one is security. Having that intellectual, psychological safety and physical safety. So if I tell my idea in a meeting, you're not going to co-opt it, right? I can trust that this is a safe place for me to tell that.

Another one is acknowledgment. Who doesn't like to be seen and valued for their work? That's something that, especially in this climate, maybe you can't give out a bonus. Maybe you can't get a merit increase. But you can say, job well done, right?

If it wasn't for that report that you did in Q3, I don't know where we'd be today. That feels good to people, right?

MICHAELSON: Right.

HARTS: Another one is feedback. Having that meaningful and consistent insight. And I think that, again, many of us have heard that feedback is a gift, but many of us have received gifts that we don't like, right?

MICHAELSON: Right.

HARTS: And it can feel like criticism or micromanagement. And so if I am going to give you feedback, is it rooted in trust? Is it an opportunity for growth?

And then --

MICHAELSON: Sensitivity and then also follow-through, right.

HARTS: Follow-through -- we need all of them.

MICHAELSON: Yes. And you got to follow-through with what you're saying.

And so we've seen a trust problem in politics too. I mean if somebody from the White House is watching this right now or our leaders are Democratic friends, what would your advice be to them in terms of building trust?

HARTS: I would say that we all need to lean into following through, right? Doing what we say. Many people started their campaigns or ran on promises, and then we don't see that they're necessarily taking place.

And then that makes us question if we can trust the people that said that they went to Washington for us. And so I think that, I hope that our politicians and those who represent us will say, you know what? What's it going to do to enhance trust and not erode trust?

MICHAELSON: You speak to corporations all over the country. What's the biggest sort of feedback you get hearing back from people?

HARTS: Well, I think the thing is this. We want trust in our romantic relationships. We want it in our platonic. And sometimes we forget that we should also have it at a place that were going to spend 90,000 hours of our life. And so --

MICHAELSON: That doesn't feel good. But thanks for the reminder, or more for some of us.

HARTS: Yes.

MICHAELSON: Yes.

HARTS: So I mean, that's something we can do. So if you have a situation think about is this decision going to enhance or erode trust. MICHAELSON: Yes.

HARTS: That's something we can all do.

MICHAELSON: And you're seeing that it is enhancing trust for you.

[01:39:50]

HARTS: It's enhancing, or at least talking about those erosions because if you know what my language is then you're going to nine times out of ten provide that for me. And now we have a more harmonious working relationship.

MICHAELSON: Yes. And won't that really help people out in such a big way?

Well, Minda, thank you so much. A reminder to everybody that the book is called "Talk To Me Nice: The Seven Trust Languages for a Better Workplace".

Really appreciate you coming in and for sharing your perspective here.

Thank you so much.

HARTS: Thank you.

MICHAELSON: And what's and -- if somebody had said to you the most important piece of advice, what would you say?

HARTS: Trust is not a one-time event. It's a lifestyle.

MICHAELSON: It's a lifestyle. And how do you change that lifestyle?

HARTS: By demonstrating trust has to be a noun and a verb.

MICHAELSON: A noun and a verb -- I like that a lot. All right, Minda. Thank you so much for coming in.

HARTS: Thanks.

MICHAELSON: And thank you so much for watching us here on THE STORY IS. For our international viewers, WORLDSPORT is next. For our viewers in North America, I'll be right back with more news. And hopefully I can build some trust with my team.

As we look at a live picture from our studios here -- that's here in Burbank, the Warner Brothers Tower, and over the corner you see Universal Studios Hollywood.

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MICHAELSON: THE STORY IS politics and there has been no shortage of reporting, speculation and second guessing about Joe Biden's failed campaign for reelection in 2024. But few people know the inside story quite like Mike Donilon, who was

the senior adviser to President Biden, basically, the top guy in his campaign.

He helped to lead many of the conversations that ultimately led Biden to quit the race and endorse his vice president, Kamala Harris.

I spoke with Mike Donilon earlier at the Warshaw Conference, which was led by the University of Southern California School Center for the Political Future.

And I asked him about Biden's decision to drop out of the presidential race, the aftermath and the future of the Democratic Party.

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MICHAELSON: We haven't really heard your perspective or President Biden's perspective. And so much has been said about you and about your role in terms of advising him and his decision to run in the first place.

And I'm curious if you want to take this opportunity to sort of share your perspective.

MIKE DONILON, SENIOR ADVISER TO FORMER PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: I thought the Democratic Party lost its mind. That's what I thought.

MICHAELSON: The Democratic Party lost its mind. What do you mean by that?

DONILON: What I mean by that is, I thought that Joe Biden was the best candidate. I thought he was the most likely person to be elected president. I thought he would be the best president.

There was a perception about Biden on the last campaign that he couldn't win it. You may not believe it, but it's true. On the day he got out of the race, he was behind Trump by three points.

It's the first margin of error in the presidency that was decided to be over in history.

Secondly, there was a perception that he couldn't do the job. And so, you know, there are books written about how he couldn't do his job. No one can point to a moment in the Biden presidency when he failed to do his job as president.

So look, my view was, look, there have been three people who've run against Donald Trump. Joe Biden's the only person who ever beat him.

I thought what happened in the party was I thought it was -- I thought it was disloyal. I thought it was an act of betrayal against the president. I thought it was undemocratic because it didn't respect the will of Democratic primary voters.

And I thought it was politically stupid, because I think the idea that you can create a campaign in the middle of a summer, a few weeks before a convention and run a nominee, was not a smart decision, even though, look, I believed then, I believe now. one of the things that I think is, is -- I don't think he gets enough credit for it because I thought Harris ran a really good race.

MICHAELSON: So you think that after that debate with the poll numbers of Americans on both parties concerned about President Biden's age, concerned about the idea of an 86-year-old president, you still think he would have won.

DONILON: This is what I think. You know, go back and look at the polling at the moment. And I think you'll be surprised.

Biden went into that debate, roughly two points down nationwide. The race got closer in the days after the debate. It didn't get wider.

MICHAELSON: So why did he drop out then?

DONILON: He dropped out because the Democratic leadership and the biggest Democratic donors in America made a decision that he could not win.

MICHAELSON: So you think it was a mistake for him to drop out?

DONILON: I don't think it was a mistake. I think it was a mistake for the party to have a circular firing squad. That's what I think.

MICHAELSON: Of the people that are being talked about now, or maybe people that aren't being talked about now, who's the most natural successor to President Biden?

DONILON: I think one of the people who is really, I think is underestimated, who would have a really powerful candidacy would be Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

MICHAELSON: Do you think she could win a general election, though?

DONILON: Yes.

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MICHAELSON: Mike Donilon also said nice things about Vice President Kamala Harris -- former vice president, in that.

Our thanks to the USC Center for the Political Future, for inviting me to be a part of that. You can watch the full conversation on their Facebook page.

We'll be right back.

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MICHAELSON: Sotheby's made modern art history in New York on Tuesday. A 20-minute bidding war erupted in applause after the luxury auction house sold a rare Gustav Klimt painting for more than $236 million. That portrait made in last years of the artist's life, was spared from

destruction during World War II, and is now the most valuable work of modern art to ever sell at auction.

Later this week, Sotheby's will auction a painting by Frida Kahlo that could break the record for the most expensive artwork publicly sold by a female artist.

From Ariana Grande and "Wicked" to Angelina Jolie in "Maria", vocal coach Eric Vetro is behind some of the biggest singing performances in Hollywood.

CNN's Rick Damigella caught up with Vetro on what it takes to transform voices for the big screen.

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RICK DAMIGELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: For "Wicked" fans, perhaps you should pay attention to this man behind the curtain.

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ERIC VETRO, VOCAL COACH AND VOICE TEACHER: I'm a vocal coach, and I'm a voice teacher.

So I really train people how to sing and speak. We do a lot of speaking too, but mostly singing.

DAMIGELLA: Eric Vetro has worked with Ariana Grande for many years and began prepping her for the role of Glinda before she even auditioned.

VETRO: For "Wicked", Ariana really wanted it to sound authentic to what Glinda should sound like, which is pretty operatic, and she had not sung that way before.

She had all the high notes. She already could sing them. Everyone knows she has those super-high whistle-register notes. And I've known her since she was about 13 years old -- 13, 14 we've been working together. So I knew she had all the notes.

But what this was all about our working experience for "Wicked" was about training her voice to sound more operatic, like a legit Broadway soprano.

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VETRO: We worked for months together before the audition, and then months after the audition once she got the part, just because she wanted it to be there at a moment's notice.

And I think she could probably still to this day, wake up in the middle of the night and hit a high C like Glinda, because it's so in her voice now.

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DAMIGELLA: In Hollywood, I'm Rick Damigella.

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MICHAELSON: Thanks for joining us on THE STORY IS.

Tomorrow, the hosts of "Pod Save America", Jon Favreau, Jon Lovett and Tommy Vietor are with us as we tour "Crooked Media".

Plus our political panel Dave Jacobson and John Thomas, plus Gustavo Arellano of the "L.A. Times". It will be a busy night.

I'm Elex Michaelson. We'll see you tomorrow here on THE STORY IS.

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