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The Story Is with Elex Michaelson
Trump Claims Economic Success in Pennsylvania Speech; Australia Bans Social Media for Children Under 16; New Film Examines Rise and Fall of Fitness Icon Susan Powter; Trump Gives His Economy High Marks Despite Data; Australia Bans Children Under 15 from Social Media; New Book Exposes Genius of 'Tonight Show' Host Johnny Carson. Aired 12-1a ET
Aired December 10, 2025 - 00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[00:00:00]
ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN ANCHOR: From the '90s with the stop the insanity videos and big fitness. She had a lot of struggles but she has this amazing documentary that just came out today. It's already number one on Apple. She's here. Her energy is unbelievable.
COATES: Oh, wow.
MICHAELSON: And so I think her story is inspiring. We've got a few other things that I think will really be inspiring. A lot of positive news tonight on the show.
COATES: Oh, I love it. This is why I love watching your story, and coming up, so have a great show.
MICHAELSON: Have a great night, Laura.
THE STORY IS starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MICHAELSON (voice-over): THE STORY IS President Trump back in campaign rally mode.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You're getting lower prices, inflation. We're crushing it.
MICHAELSON: Trying to talk up the economy despite voter skepticism.
THE STORY IS social media and kids.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: It is about our families taking back control.
MICHAELSON: Australia becomes the first country in the world to ban social media for young people. We'll go live to Sydney.
THE STORY IS resurrection.
SUSAN POWTER, EXERCISE AND FITNESS GURU: Stop the insanity.
MICHAELSON: In the '90s Susan Powter was a worldwide fitness phenomenon. In recent years, she's been an Uber Eats driver. She's with us live to talk about where she's been and where she's going in the new documentary about her life.
THE STORY IS Johnny Carson. A new book sheds new light on the all-time king of late-night. Author Mark Malkoff is with us.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: From Los Angeles, THE STORY IS with Elex Michaelson.
MICHAELSON: And welcome to THE STORY IS. I'm Elex Michaelson, live in Los Angeles tonight.
The top story is the economy. President Trump at a campaign style rally in Pennsylvania late tonight trying to convince Americans that things are getting better despite some of what they're seeing at the grocery store, at car dealerships and in their health insurance bills. Once again calling the affordability crisis that many Americans are experiencing a, quote, "Democrat hoax." And he said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I can't say affordability hoax because I agree the prices were too high, so I can't go to hoax because they'll misconstrue that. But they use the word affordability, and that's their only word. They say affordability, and everyone says, oh, that must mean Trump has high prices. No, our prices are coming down tremendously from the highest prices in the history of our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: So that speech came after a wide ranging interview with Politico, where the president bragged about his prices.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wonder what grade you would give our economy.
TRUMP: A plus.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A plus.
TRUMP: Yes. A plus, plus, plus, plus, plus.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: CNN's Alayna Treene joins me now from Mount Pocono, Pennsylvania, where the president gave his speech.
Alayna, welcome to THE STORY IS for the first time. Great to be on with you for the first time.
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I'm so happy to be on. Thank you for having me.
MICHAELSON: All right. So tonight we got rally Trump. The YMCA was back. We got the dance moves. We got the whole thing. We got the crowd. We got the off-script. What was your big takeaway from what he said?
TREENE: I mean, yes, look, he slipped right back in to his 2024 campaign rally mode, and you could actually hear that a lot in his speech. I think the takeaway for me was that I knew how important this trip was to the White House and the Trump administration at large.
They recognize, Elex, that the president has an issue when it comes to affordability. Essentially the cost of living, the high prices that so many Americans are struggling with right now. And it's not -- it's not just the Trump himself, but the Republican Party at large. They think this is going to be the issue that decides the midterm elections next year. That's why he came to Pennsylvania, and that's why they are planning several other domestic trips across the country for Trump to make similar speeches.
However, I should say that while a lot of people in the White House recognize there's a problem, while I know that they have advised him personally to not dismiss some Americans concerns, someone once told me who works in the White House essentially said, you can't convince people not to feel what their reality is, the president continued to call this idea of affordability a Democratic hoax. He said that repeatedly throughout the evening.
He also tried to argue that all of the problems that people are facing when it comes to the economy is because he inherited a bad economy from Joe Biden. That's not a surprising thing. He said that before, but it was interesting because I was really watching to see what would his tone be like. And there were moments as well. But he almost -- he kind of flickers where he almost acknowledged the pain that some Americans are feeling, you know, when he read off the prompter for a moment.
But then he went back to going off script and riffed again, saying, and prices are coming down enormously. And so that to me was probably the most telling that he really slipped into this idea on a speech that was supposed to be very focused on affordability and made it about a number of other issues and kind of continue to attack his predecessor of all people, who is, of course, not been the one in office now for almost a year.
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MICHAELSON: And it's interesting because the White House comes off as seems to be saying affordability is an issue. Republicans in Congress are saying affordability is an issue. Republican voters are saying affordability is an issue. But if you actually listen to what President Trump is saying, he's saying it's not an issue. And prices are coming down so you have that that dynamic. Meanwhile, just on a human level, we know President Trump loves rallies. We know he's energized by them. He has not been out on the road that much doing this sort of thing. From what your perspective, how does this animate him? What could you
see in terms of his body language tonight?
TREENE: Oh, it completely animates him. He loves to be on that stage, and he's so used to it. And part of it, too, is he always feeds off the crowd. The people who are in this room earlier in the evening were the type of people who, you know, they put them here essentially. A lot of the Trump team knew who to put in this room to have the president feel that energy from them. Some of his fiercest supporters sitting in the room.
And he does really enjoy to be up on a stage and feel like he is talking to the people who helped put him into office. And because of that, that's why you see him go off script. It was really striking at one moment he said, you know, I have all these speechwriters and he called out one of the most famous one, Ross Worthington, and he said, you know, he writes me great speeches and they get all this credit.
He's like, but I never read them. And you could really see that on stage Tuesday. And I will say, I'm someone, Elex, who has covered dozens of rallies over the last two years. Also, during some of his first administration or in the lead-up to that. And it's very much the same. It's -- he very much embraces this idea of the political nature of it, and it did feel almost like a political campaign speech rather than one to really message on a singular issue.
He talked a lot about the border. He talked a lot about Somalis who are in America. You know, something an issue that he's been focused on a lot. And so he kind of -- he called it the weave. He very much did that Tuesday evening.
MICHAELSON: CNN's Alayna Treene, thank you so much for joining us. Safe travels home.
TREENE: Thank you so much. It was a pleasure to be on with you.
MICHAELSON: U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth and other administration officials met on Capitol Hill with congressional leaders known as the Gang of Eight. That's a live picture from Capitol Hill where it's 12:06 a.m., amid growing calls from both parties to release the full video of a controversial strike on a suspected drug boat in the Caribbean.
Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer called the briefing very unsatisfying, and said Hegseth would not commit to allowing lawmakers to see unedited footage of the double tap strike that killed two survivors.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): It was a very unsatisfying briefing. I asked Secretary Hegseth, Secretary of Defense Hegseth, would he let every member of Congress see the unedited videos of the September 2nd strike? His answer, we have to study it. Well, in my view, they've studied it long enough, and Congress ought to be able to see it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: So President Trump has seen it. He told Politico that footage of the second strike was, quote, "not pretty." But he says the strikes are a must to stop the flow of drugs into the U.S.
Ukraine's president says his team is preparing an updated version of the Trump administration's peace plan, and it could be ready to send to the U.S. on Wednesday. President Zelenskyy says he and European allies are discussing two other documents about security guarantees and Ukraine's postwar recovery. He also says that Ukraine will be ready to hold elections in the next 60 to 90 days if the U.S. and Europe can guarantee security for the vote.
A live picture right now from Australia, where kids are adjusting to life without some of the most popular app. That's what it looks like in Sydney right now. Now, Australia's first-in-the-world sweeping ban on social media for those under 16 went into effect on Wednesday. That new law comes after years of concerns about the potential negative impacts that social media platforms and their addictive algorithms can have on mental health.
Meta, which owns Facebook, Instagram and Threads, argues that the new ban will actually make kids less safe. Most of the 10 banned platforms say they will comply with the law using age verification technology.
Australia's prime minister says the ban allows families to take back power from big tech companies. He had this message for kids with free time on their school break.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALBANESE: Above all, make the most of the school holidays coming up rather than spending it scrolling on your phone. Start a new sport, learn a new instrument, or read that book that's been sitting there on your shelf for some time. And importantly, spend quality time with your friends and your family face to face.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[00:10:08]
MICHAELSON: CNN's Angus Watson is live in Sydney, where it's just after 4:00 Wednesday.
Good afternoon and welcome to THE STORY IS for the first time.
ANGUS WATSON, CNN PRODUCER: Thanks so much, Elex.
MICHAELSON: So how are people reacting to this?
WATSON: Well, I was at that event earlier today at the prime minister's official residence here in Sydney, where the prime minister had gathered politicians and advocates that had made this ban happen. This morning millions of Australian teenagers woke up with no access to their social media platforms, these foundation stones for their social life going back years, some of them. Snapchat accounts frozen for the next three years. Facebook, Instagram accounts closed. Reddit accounts closed, too.
Now, at this meeting with the prime minister, he spoke to the media. He spoke to the advocates. He spoke with parents who have lost their children to suicide, having had to deal, having had become the victims of online predators in social media. Now that their cause really -- cause this groundswell of support for this ban here in Australia. Its advocates say it might work. It might not work straight away.
Time will be needed for teething issues, the way that the social media companies do that will be under scrutiny. But what the government and the advocates here are saying is that they want cultural change. As the prime minister pointed out, they want kids changing their ways, moving away from social media and getting out outside or pursuing other interests.
Elsewhere in the community, it is a big topic of discussion. Around the dinner tables here in Australia, parents, kids are arguing the toss when it comes to this. Have a listen to what some Australians are saying today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILL ATKINS, SYDNEY RESIDENT AND PARENT: We'd always regulated media in the public interest. And I think what the government is trying to do is to return some of the public interest.
DOMINIQUE ANTARAKIS, SYDNEY RESIDENT AND PARENT: I don't think bans tend to work when it's a blanket decision. It doesn't take into account the nuance and the variables and people's individual situations. And frankly, people tend to find a way around bans if they really want to.
REBECCA FERNANDEZ, SYDNEY RESIDENT: I think it cuts kids off from the community more than forcing them back out in real life. I think it just cuts them off from support as well, that they could be accessing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATSON: So it's important to note here that, say kids do get onto social media, say they get past the facial scan technology, or they use a VPN, they won't be punished. The Australian government has said it's not going to come after kids. It's not going to come after their parents. What it is doing instead is asking the social media company -- companies to take reasonable steps to assure the Australian government that they are reducing and deleting the number of under 16s on their platforms.
And the penalties for that, Elex, run into the tens of millions of dollars if the Australian government thinks that these big tech companies aren't cooperating.
MICHAELSON: Well, it's just going to be a fascinating case study for the entire world. And we're going to be digging into this throughout the next two hours here on THE STORY IS. But for kids to go outside, if you got to go outside somewhere, Angus, that background is about as pretty as any background as you are ever going to see. So get outside and enjoy that.
Thank you so much for joining us here live.
WATSON: Thank you.
MICHAELSON: All right. Now to some breaking political news here in America. For the first time in nearly 30 years, the city of Miami has elected a Democrat as mayor. CNN projects Eileen Higgins will defeat Trump-backed Emilio Gonzalez in the runoff election. It marks another strong performance by Democrats during the president's first year of his second term. Affordability is a key issue during the campaign. Talk about that a lot, with Higgins voicing support for building more affordable housing. She will also become the first woman to ever lead that city.
When we come back, my interview with fitness and wellness guru Susan Powter. New documentary on her life and what's shaping up to be her long overdue comeback. She's with us live as her documentary just hit number one on Apple.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[00:19:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
POWTER: People don't know. I don't see one penny. Where's it going? You are walking back from having spent the whole day in a welfare office, and you're walking back to the welfare weekly that you live in. How much of the downfall is someone's responsibility and how much is it bad actors? I never said, show me the damn bank balance. I should have.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: That was a clip from the documentary "Stop the Insanity: Finding Susan Powter." Film produced by Academy Award winner Jamie Lee Curtis follows the rise and fall of the '90s pop culture icon. The documentary just came out on streaming platforms and is already number one on Apple.
Susan Powter joins us live here in studio.
How's that sound? Number one.
POWTER: Thank you for having me. And I couldn't be more proud or thrilled. Couldn't be more proud.
MICHAELSON: Yes.
POWTER: Independent movie, number one first day out.
MICHAELSON: Congratulations to you. And to the director who is here behind the scene.
POWTER: Jamie Lee Curtis, Zeberiah Newman, John Redmond, the most beautiful people surrounding this very powerful. We're all proud. So proud.
[00:20:05]
MICHAELSON: So for -- let's talk about the story. So in the 1990s there's "Stop the Insanity." It is a huge hit. You've got books, you're on all over TV. There's DVDs, there's all of it. And then you kind of go away. Some bad management, some bad managers. And then the question is, where did you go? So where did you go?
POWTER: Well, hence the movie because the title is "Stop the Insanity: Finding Susan Powter." And I literally fired everyone in one paragraph because I found out the truth about how things were being managed in the '90s. It was a different time, different game, you know, huge corporations, Time Warner, Simon and Schuster, managers, lawyers, the whole thing. I did not ask questions that I should have asked. I was working, I was working like a racehorse, to be honest with you.
And the bottom line is I left. I just left. I had another baby that nobody knows about. My 27-year-old son and America grew up with the first two sons and they don't know. And I just left and I went back to my roots. I started teaching aerobics. I taught cooking classes. But then things changed. I didn't go from Hollywood to Harbor Island. Things change when you're 60, 62, people don't hire, they don't, insurance, that's when it gets frightening.
And that's -- the movie is about what is happening to millions of people. It happened to me, but it's happening to millions of people.
MICHAELSON: And so the director was searching for you and finds you after --
POWTER: Nine months. Nine months.
MICHAELSON: After nine months, and says, I want to film you. And you say no.
POWTER: Absolutely not. I mean, what I said is nobody goes on camera after 20 years. People go on camera with fluorescent teeth, lips out to here, extensions and Botox out to here. I've done nothing.
MICHAELSON: Yes. That's our city.
POWTER: I'm 68 and I said, I'm not going to -- no. And he said, can I come and meet you? And then he said, the next day, can I come back and film you? And I said, yes. And we started filming. It's an independent movie. So it really is done on a shoestring with brilliant people. And Jamie Lee Curtis said, you have to do this. Thank you. Jamie Lee Curtis.
MICHAELSON: And Jamie Lee Curtis helped to fund this, too.
POWTER: No, she's the executive producer.
MICHAELSON: Yes. So --
POWTER: Yes, one of them. MICHAELSON: I have had the honor of meeting Jamie Lee Curtis. And she
has a very unique energy.
POWTER: Yes she does.
MICHAELSON: And I've never met anybody who has that same energy until I met you today.
POWTER: Thank you.
MICHAELSON: You both have this very similar energy, which is amazing.
POWTER: Well, Jamie acknowledged when I first met her. She said to me, this energy is not easy, but you survived. You're still intact. You're being, your essence is real. And I'm very grateful for that because it's been a hard run, kids, like it's been a hard run.
MICHAELSON: What have you learned from Jamie and how has she changed your life?
POWTER: Well, number one, she's given me life. She's given me the chance to work again. And I will say it a million times. Not many people get the opportunity that "Stop the Insanity" was. I was the only revenue generator. I did all the work. I wrote all the books. Nobody wrote the books. Nobody did. I've been given an opportunity twice in a lifetime, and it's going to be done properly this time.
MICHAELSON: Because currently you've been working as an Uber Eats driver, right?
POWTER: I delivered food two days ago.
MICHAELSON: Yes. Right.
POWTER: No, no, I do, and I'm proud to say.
MICHAELSON: Right.
POWTER: I've never stopped working. I'm proud. The privacy, a lot of people will understand. I've died a million deaths behind the wheel of that car. You know, it hasn't been easy, but I've always paid my bills and my, you know, whatever. I do what I need to do. But it's kind of ironic because guess who's delivering your food, kids?
MICHAELSON: Right.
POWTER: I know quite a bit about it. So, you know, it's kind of like, wow, you know.
MICHAELSON: Right. And so, but now you have this, because of this potentially a new choice. A new chance.
POWTER: Well, I have a book. I have a movie, I have a book. I have speaking engagements.
MICHAELSON: So all that's coming now. POWTER: I have a chance to work and do really good work, and I can do
it properly. And I'm proud and grateful. It's like living gratitude for real, and people who've gone through difficult times understand the real gratitude is like, wow, I have a chance.
MICHAELSON: Well, and part of this, you talk about this idea of being broken.
POWTER: Yes.
MICHAELSON: Right? Breaking and being broken.
POWTER: Broke but not broken.
MICHAELSON: Yes.
POWTER: Broke is one thing. I came really close to being broken. And that's a very difficult place. Broke is one thing. Broken is another.
MICHAELSON: So what is your message to people who feel broken or feel close to being broken?
POWTER: I wouldn't pretend for a moment to -- what I can say is this, and I mean it. Hang the hell on. Like, hang on, hang on. It doesn't always work out where a movie or, I mean, this is unusual circumstances that again I'm very grateful for, but just hang on, hang on. And it is embarrassing and it is shameful and it is hard and it is really humiliating. And it is all those things.
MICHAELSON: Your sons by choice, your choice, too, were not part of this documentary, but they did get to see it recently.
POWTER: Well, we chose that this is a story about a woman. This is, I mean, me as a mother is one aspect. They're private people. It's not their story, it's mine. But they only recently last week at the Las Vegas screening got to see the movie for the first time. And they've always been proud of me because I work and they've -- they know how difficult.
[00:25:10]
MICHAELSON: Describe the emotions of them watching this with you.
POWTER: I can tell you that what was difficult for me is also very difficult for everyone in the family, for the children. If it's humiliating and hard and shameful for me it's also difficult for them. And it has been an enormous adjustment that we work through, and were working within. But one of the things I'm the most proud of, that my children watching the movie, I realized, I think this is going to give a lot of parents, mothers and fathers a bit of grace, a bit of grace when their adult children go, it's a human being.
Sometimes stuff doesn't work out like there's some grace and understanding that I'm really proud of. But I've got full grown adult men and they love their mom. And we got a good family and they're proud. MICHAELSON: Well, they should be.
POWTER: Thank you.
MICHAELSON: I absolutely love meeting you. You're one of my favorite guests that's come in here.
POWTER: Thank you. That is -- that is so lovely of you.
MICHAELSON: Honestly, I love your energy.
POWTER: Thank you.
MICHAELSON: And I'm really, really rooting for you.
POWTER: Thank you. And you're a good looking tall guy with a good show. Thank you.
MICHAELSON: Here we go.
Susan Powter, again, check out the documentary out now.
Still to come, President Trump gives himself top marks for how the U.S. economy is performing. Is it a fair score? We'll discuss that and more. Our political panel is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MICHAELSON: Welcome back to THE STORY IS. I'm Elex Michaelson. Let's take a look at your top stories.
[00:31:19]
The U.S. Federal Reserve is expected to cut interest rates again when it wraps up its December meeting this week. Most analysts are predicting a quarter-point cut, but the central bank remains divided over whether it should prioritize support for the slowing job market or controlling inflation.
The U.S. Senate expected to vote Thursday on a Republican alternative to the Democrats' healthcare plan. The GOP version expands health savings accounts for Americans to help pay for some coverage but does not include any extension of Obamacare tax credits, which are set to expire at the end of the month. That is making it a nonstarter for Democrats.
President Trump trying to convince Americans that the economy is improving. During a speech in Pennsylvania, he blamed the Biden administration for inflation. The president said he is bringing prices down; once again, claimed that the affordability crisis is a Democrat hoax.
Recent CNN and FOX News poll shows 60 to 70 percent of Americans think the economy is not in good shape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I have no higher priority than making
America affordable again. That's what we're going to do. And again, they caused the high prices, and we're bringing them down. It's a simple message. Lower prices, bigger paychecks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: Joining me now, our political panel. John Iadarola is the host of "The Damage Report" on the Young Turks Network. And Dr. Houman David Hemmati is a board-certified ophthalmologist and research scientist and conservative commentator. Welcome to you both.
John, welcome to the show for the first time.
JOHN IADAROLA, HOST, "THE DAMAGE REPORT": Glad to be here. Excited for your next step.
MICHAELSON: Yes, I've done your show, so it's nice for you to be on our show, which we appreciate.
So, let's start with this idea. This is how the president grades himself when it comes to the economy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wonder what grade you would give the economy.
TRUMP: A plus.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A plus?
TRUMP: A plus plus plus plus plus.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: A plus plus plus. What would you -- how would you grade it?
IADAROLA: I'd probably -- much closer to the way the American people are grading it. Something like a D.
I mean, not for everybody. There are people who are doing well in the current economy. Wall Street is doing well. Some of his policies are obviously designed to benefit them. And why wouldn't it? Him and his friends are in the class that do well when Wall Street is doing well.
But for most people, you know, the vast majority of whom don't have any stock -- 1 percent of the American public owns over 50 percent of all the stock -- that's not really going to help people. People are looking at prices.
And him just declaring them going down when people go out and shop, and they don't see that, it's not reassuring.
MICHAELSON: Do you think it's A plus plus? HOUMAN DAVID HEMMATI, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: I don't. And look, the
president is very optimistic. And he always likes to talk very big and talk a big game, especially about himself and about what he does. We all know that.
And I think the economy, if I had to give it a grade, will be lower than an A+, would probably be closer to a B, B+ for the majority of Americans. And I think that's what really matters.
Yes, like you said, when the stock market is up, it does impact many people directly. But -- but there is an effect on everyone else. When stocks are up, investment is higher. People will invest more in manufacturing and biotech and entertainment, et cetera. That creates jobs and eventually that money reaches the people.
But it's not an immediate effect, and you're not going to see that happening within a few months or a year of a presidential administration.
MICHAELSON: It seems like, Houman, there's this interesting dynamic going on, which is the Republicans in the Senate and the House say affordability is an issue. The White House officials say affordability is an issue.
And then the president goes out to an event to talk about affordability being an issue, and then says it's not. He doesn't read the prompter and has a very different message.
HEMMATI: He likes to spin things the way that he sees it, and that's how he has always been. Sometimes that messaging works; sometimes that messaging doesn't work. I think it's --
MICHAELSON: You don't think it's working now?
HEMMATI: In this case, it's -- it's working to some degree with certain people. But I think when you go to Pennsylvania, it becomes a bit of a hard sell, because people's prices have not come down the way they want them to.
[00:35:09]
But again, it doesn't happen overnight. You can't just flip the switch and say prices come down.
Prices are coming down. For pharmaceuticals, for example, there are drugs that are down 90 percent. They're pushing the company --
MICHAELSON: Yes.
HEMMATI: -- so incredibly hard for a lot of other things. Food, energy. Across the board, things are down.
MICHAELSON: Yes. Gas prices definitely down.
HEMMATI: Yes. So, these are things that matter. But some people aren't necessarily going to feel those things immediately. Some may not feel them at all.
So, I think these things have to get to the people, reach them, and people feel it. You can't tell someone things are cheaper if they're not. They'll -- they'll feel it.
MICHAELSON: John, how do we bring prices down? What should we do?
IADAROLA: I mean, look, I feel like for a very long time across multiple administrations, people expect too much of the president.
MICHAELSON: Sure.
IADAROLA: And the president gets the -- the credit when things go up, whether he was actually responsible or not. And vice versa.
The issue for Donald Trump is he has less of a case to make than most presidents could, that this is just circumstances that are hitting me.
Sure, there was underlying inflation from Joe Biden. We're still sort of coming out economically from the pandemic. But he didn't just come in, inherit an economy and then just see what happens.
MICHAELSON: Right.
IADAROLA: He has exercised a massive amount of vigorous power to get the policies he wants, particularly on tariffs. It has been almost entirely unchecked. And so, if things are not going well, he does actually bear the blame.
MICHAELSON: Do you think he does?
HEMMATI: Yes and no. Again, there's only so much that a president can do.
So, tariffs. The president can control tariffs. But guess what? The tariffs have been having an impact. When you look at manufacturing, so much manufacturing is moving back to the U.S.
You look at Vetter Pharma. Massive manufacturing giant in pharmaceuticals, based in Germany. They just announced in June $285 million plant in Illinois. That's the tip of the iceberg. You're seeing so much of that happen.
But it takes a long time for these manufacturing facilities to be onshored back to the U.S. from abroad, et cetera. So, I think we'll see the effects of that. But it's not going to be immediate.
But the problem is that people, and the media, and the politicians all have a very short attention span and need things to happen yesterday. And the midterms are coming up. And do we have time between now and the midterms for there to be a real moving of that needle? Maybe. Maybe not.
MICHAELSON: And the other big issue that will probably be fought out in the midterms, which is fought out in almost every midterms, is health care, right. And the government shutdown was over this idea of that these Obamacare
subsidies are about to go away, which means healthcare premiums are going to go up for so many Americans around the country.
The Senate Republican plan says we're not going to deal with the Obamacare subsidies. We're going to deal with other aspects, including a health savings plan. Does that -- does that make sense? You're a doctor. You see all this stuff firsthand.
HEMMATI: I've spoken recently, actually in D.C. with Senator Cassidy and other members of the GOP on the Senate Health Committee who are dealing with this. And I think they're in a tough place.
Because part of the reason why healthcare premiums have gone up so much year after year, like runaway, is that the government keeps paying taxpayer money to the insurance companies. And when they do that, it's like with student loans, where the universities keep jacking up tuition. They say, well, well just keep jacking up the premiums. Government will keep paying them. It's not sustainable. So, at some point we have to put the brakes on this.
The problem is, you can't put the brakes on it immediately, because that's going to impact people very hard, very quickly, and they're going to suffer; and they're going to vote differently.
MICHAELSON: People that can't afford it.
HEMMATI: That's what's going to happen.
So, I think coming up with a plan where the taxpayer subsidies to the insurance companies and the moneys going to them -- and they're making a lot of money off of this -- will have to be pared back substantially.
And I think the insurance companies, when that happens, cannot keep jacking rates up. They know that.
MICHAELSON: And John, this is an issue that the Young Turks have been so all over for so many years. Health care.
IADAROLA: Yes, I actually agree with a lot of what you said.
I think you have the substantive issue that people are about to be hit in an absolutely massive way. I mean, you're seeing some people are going to be paying, basically, a second mortgage for their health insurance, and that's not sustainable.
Look, as a progressive, as someone who wants the Democrats to do well in the midterms, this seems like a wildly self-destructive thing for the Senate Republicans to do. I assume that they would, at least pragmatically, selfishly extend them for a year, get past the midterms. They chose not to do that.
But honestly, look, I agree that something massive does need to be done. Simply kicking the can down the road with the ACA subsidies isn't going to get it done. But I also think that a couple of years of absolute chaos might
provide an opening for 2028 for some sort of progressive Democrat to run on a vigorous Medicare-for-all platform and say, look, you've all been through this. This has been absolute hell. Maybe we should join the rest of the industrialized world and do it the way that it's been done in so many countries successfully.
MICHAELSON: Tough to get the votes to get that thing through, at least initially. But we'll see.
Big changes coming to Australia. This is something that would be hard to figure out to do here in America. This idea that social media is being banned for kids. As a young parent, do you think that's a good idea?
[00:40:04]
IADAROLA: I think that, if that gets my two-and-a-half-year-old daughter off of social media, I'm fine with it. I'm kidding. Of course she's not doing that.
Yes. I'm starting to get pretty radicalized. Like, I think a lot of people are about not just social media, but social media is a big part of it. But the algorithm and all of this stuff,
It just seems like psychologically, we are not built for a world like this. And so, I don't know. We were talking before the show. I don't know if it's possible to do something like this in America. It probably isn't --
MICHAELSON: Yes.
IADAROLA: -- considering how powerful the tech giants are. But I say take big swings. Let's try something out.
MICHAELSON: As a parent, as a doctor, what do you think?
HEMMATI: We have data after data after data. Not just personal anecdotes, but we have a lot of evidence showing that social media use by kids leads to depression, anxiety, ADHD. You take those things away, ADHD goes away rapidly in a large number of kids. No medicine required. There's published studies that I've read recently.
So, this is wonderful.
As a parent, I told my kids, you're going to be 16 to 18 before you have social media. And guess what my kids do? Rather than being on a screen which they have limited access to, they hang out with their friends. They do play dates. They read books. They go on walks with us. That's what kids should be doing. And I think we're about to be able to go back to that.
It's going to require a cultural shift with parents. The iPad is an easy nanny.
MICHAELSON: Well, isn't it going to be interesting that we literally are going to have a case study now where you're going to be able to compare these Australian kids versus American kids, and that will be fascinating to see.
HEMMATI: Yes.
MICHAELSON: Great to see both of you here. Thank you so much --
IADAROLA: Thanks, Elex.
MICHAELSON: -- for coming in. Got a lot of ground there.
Coming up, over nearly three decades, Johnny Carson boosted the careers of countless comedians, musicians and actors as host of "The Tonight Show." One man talked to some 25,000 [SIC] people that Carson interviewed. He talked to over 400 of those 25,000 to get the real story of the legend. We'll talk to him next.
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[00:46:33]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ED MCMAHON, FORMER EMCEE, "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH JOHNNY CARSON": Cute little thing.
JOHNNY CARSON, FORMER HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH JOHNNY CARSON": Was that -- was he spitting? Was that saliva?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: For three decades, Johnny Carson hosted "The Tonight Show." He defined late-night television, became arguably the most influential and powerful pop culture figure in the country.
Mark Malkoff talked to over 400 people for his new book, "Love Johnny Carson: One Obsessive Fan's Journey to Find the Genius Behind the Legend." Mark joins me now from New York.
The book is fantastic. Welcome to THE STORY IS and congrats on the new book.
MARK MALKOFF, AUTHOR, "LOVE JOHNNY CARSON": Oh, thanks. Yes, I can't believe that so many people talked to me. They all wanted to talk about Johnny.
The book is called "Love Johnny Carson" because so many people like Mel Brooks, Carol Burnett said, "I love Johnny." And we collected the stories.
MICHAELSON: Yes. And so, it's fitting that you're in New York, where Johnny's career started.
MALKOFF: Yes.
MICHAELSON: We're here in Los Angeles, where Johnny's career really reached its apex. Literally, a few feet away from our studios right now is where Johnny was.
Talk to us about how big Johnny Carson was at his height, because I think young people today really can't quite get how big he was.
MALKOFF: Carson dominated popular culture for 30 years. He was the most recognizable person, maybe, in the country other than the president.
Everybody went through Johnny Carson's show. Movie stars, athletes. It's the best time capsule of popular culture.
He influenced everything from fashion to his monologue. He would make fun of politicians and sometimes end careers. He was such a smart man. To make it an entertainment show, he would get into the politics, but the No. 1 thing was, I'm going to do an entertainment show.
MICHAELSON: And you think about it. There was no YouTube. There was no TikTok. There was no Instagram. There was no other way to get this information. Johnny Carson was it. And it was basically no competition at that time slot, because he was so good.
MALKOFF: At the peak, 45 million people. This is second to the moon landing with Neil Armstrong. Forty-five million people tuned in to see Tiny Tim, this singer with a high falsetto voice, get married on "The Tonight Show." And still, that record holds.
I mean, the power that that man yielded, launching everyone from David Letterman to even someone like a singer. Jimmy Buffett told me, Mark, you're the first one that's ever asked me about Johnny Carson. He launched me. It was the biggest break of my life. I couldn't get on TV before Carson.
MICHAELSON: For years, the lore was -- be that there were basically two different Johnny Carsons. The on-camera version, and then the off- camera version. How -- what did you find when actually talking to people?
MALKOFF: The media for 30 years said this man is cold and aloof, and Johnny would make fun of that moniker.
But I sat down with the people closest to him: his friends; people that were, you know, shared the most intimate secrets with Johnny; the most loyal people. They all told me that he was almost the same Johnny on-camera and off-camera, but it was a small group of people.
But he was -- if you -- if he was your friend, he would do anything for you. But he expected loyalty. And if loyalty was broken, it was over with him.
But consistently, they told me on and off, almost the same person, which I -- it floored me.
MICHAELSON: Talk about your journey in creating this book, why you wrote this book and how you went about doing it.
MALKOFF: Johnny was so likable. Anybody that hosts a late-night show looks at him as the gold standard. Surprisingly for an icon of 30 years that dominated, there weren't a lot of stories about how people got booked on "The Tonight Show," their journeys.
[00:50:05]
So, I sat down with people -- comedians, musicians -- and they would have tears in their eyes, recounting going on Johnny's show and what Johnny meant to them.
Young comedians would tell me Johnny would punch -- help punch up their material during commercial breaks.
Afterwards, comedian George Lopez, after he debuted, Johnny came to his dressing room, gave him a joke suggestion. George tried it out the next night and said it killed. Carson was right on the money.
So, just -- Bette Midler. I mean, we could go on and on with the people that Carson launched.
MICHAELSON: Well, and one of his favorites was -- was David Letterman.
MALKOFF: Yes.
MICHAELSON: And we know how much David Letterman loved Johnny Carson. And you were actually at the Ed Sullivan Theater in New York for the show that David Letterman did after Johnny's death. Here's one of the punch lines.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID LETTERMAN, FORMER HOST, "LATE NIGHT WITH DAVID LETTERMAN": There are two things, two man-made things, that are visible from 50 miles up. One, of course, is the Great Wall of China, and the other, Donald Trump's hair.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: So, even then, they were talking about Donald Trump.
Now, the interesting part of that is at the end of Letterman's monologue, he says to the crowd, "All of the jokes I just told were written by Johnny Carson."
He had been writing for Letterman even after his retirement, which was really a nod that Johnny saw Letterman as his heir, more than Jay Leno. Right?
MALKOFF: Oh, absolutely. Johnny, the last year of his life, he was writing the monologue jokes for -- yes, for Dave. And Dave would do the golf swing in homage to Carson, to Carson. And nobody at home knew what Dave was doing, that -- that Johnny was writing these jokes.
And it tickled Johnny. I mean, he would get so excited that Dave was doing his jokes. He had no say on who the successor was. He wanted it to be Dave Letterman. It went to Jay Leno. It worked out for the both of them.
But that was a very emotional thing to be there. Doc Severinsen and the band playing Johnny's favorite song. And just for Dave to make that reveal, that those were all written by Johnny. It was beautiful.
MICHAELSON: Let's go through some quick hits --
MALKOFF: Yes.
MICHAELSON: -- of some stories that you found, the sort of headlines that you found. Muhammad Ali and his relationship with Johnny Carson.
MALKOFF: Muhammad Ali and Johnny really enjoyed each other's humor. And Muhammad Ali, in 1967, he was in Houston. And he was about to get arrested the next day. because he refused to go to Vietnam.
And Howard Cosell went into Muhammad Ali's hotel room, and he found Muhammad Ali, tucked under the covers in bed, watching Johnny Carson.
Carson was a calming presence during turbulent times. Vietnam, Martin Luther King being assassinated. Bobby Kennedy, who Carson was friends with, being assassinated. Carson really was a steady rock getting the nation through these tragedies.
We really looked at him to get us through these tough times, and he was there for us for 30 years. And then famously, when he left, he was gone. And we were heartbroken.
MICHAELSON: Yes, Nancy Reagan sometimes would call.
MALKOFF: Nancy Reagan.
MICHAELSON: Nancy was first lady of the United States.
MALKOFF: Yes. She called Johnny a couple times. One, she was upset that Johnny was doing jokes about Ronnie dying his hair. She said, Ronnie does not dye his hair.
So, the next night, Johnny Carson said, I hear that Ronnie does not dye his hair, but he does bleach his face.
And then, when she became first lady, she called up Carson's "Tonight Show" and she said, Johnny, no more drug jokes. I'm launching this just say no campaign.
So back then, "Saturday Night Live" and Carson, they would do drug humor, but Nancy Reagan put -- really put the foot down. And Johnny listened to her.
But yes, she was definitely influential in terms of what got in and what didn't. Carson made the final, final decision, but she definitely was vocal.
MICHAELSON: As we wrap things up, I want to play my favorite moment from "The Tonight Show," other than Bette Midler was great at the end.
MALKOFF: Yes.
MICHAELSON: But just a moment that makes me laugh every single time was when a guy named Ed Ames was on, who was trying to teach Johnny Carson how to do a tomahawk and throw. It was supposed to hit in a very different place. But this is what happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ED AMES, TOMAHAWK THROWER: But that's indefinite.
CARSON: All right, all right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALKOFF: Unbelievable.
MICHAELSON: One of the great lines, right? I mean, that was part of his. He always had that perfect timing.
MALKOFF: He did.
MICHAELSON: He knew what to say.
MALKOFF: I sat down with Ed Ames. He was in his nineties in California. He told me, "Mark, I did not know how to throw a tomahawk. They taught me about 45 minutes before the show."
He was convinced that the censors would never allow it. But Johnny and his brilliance. You can see he holds Ed Ames back as he's about to retrieve the tomahawk, and Johnny went into the Jack Benny mode for a full minute. The silences, and started adlibbing, and it's TV history.
MICHAELSON: It is so great. There's so much of it. "Love Johnny Carson," love the book. Congratulations, Mark. Thank you so much.
MALKOFF: Thank you, sir. This was fun.
MICHAELSON: We'll be right back with more.
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[00:59:38]
MICHAELSON: The McCormick spice company believes we'll be seeing black currants everywhere next year. They have designated the berry as 2026's flavor of the year, predicting it will be a major trend on restaurant menus and in kitchens in 2026.
Black currants haven't been as popular here in the U.S. as they are elsewhere in the world, thanks to a century-long ban on commercial cultivation. That ban is over now, and more Americans are enjoying the tart fruit in cocktails, jam, even in savory dishes.
Thanks so much for watching.
