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The Story Is with Elex Michaelson
Trump's Comments on Rob Reiner Receiving Criticism; Australian Leaders Vow to Tighten Gun Laws After Shooting; Brown University Students Face Fear, Uncertainty After Shooting. Aired 12-1a ET
Aired December 16, 2025 - 00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN ANCHOR: The story is here in Los Angeles. Rob Reiner and his wife allegedly murdered by their own son. I report from outside Reiner's home. Speak to some of those who knew him best.
Plus legal analysis from CNN's Laura Coates live on our set.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I was not a fan of Rob Reiner at all in any way, shape, or form. I thought he was very bad for our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: And reaction to those comments by President Trump. With Cenk Uygur on the left, Jennifer Horne on the right.
The story is in Providence, Rhode Island, where there's a search for a new person of interest in the Brown University shooting. The first one was released.
And the story is in Sydney, Australia. We're getting new horrifying details on the anti-Semitic terror attack, with suspects appearing to be inspired by ISIS.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Live from Los Angeles, The Story Is with Elex Michaelson.
MICHAELSON: Welcome to The Story Is. I'm Elex Michaelson. We're following several big breaking stories right now, but we begin here in Los Angeles with the story of Rob Reiner, and the investigation into the deaths of Reiner and his wife, Michelle. The LA Police Department says the couple's son, Nick Reiner, is responsible.
The 32-year-old is being held without bail. His case will be presented to the LA County DA on Tuesday. A source familiar with the incident recalls seeing Rob Reiner having an argument with Nick at a celebrity Christmas party in LA on Saturday. We've learned that the couple's daughter discovered their parents, her parents, dead at their Brentwood home the following day. Now, a look at the complicated relationship between father and son.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK REINER, ROB REINER'S SON: I wasn't really that shy about including some of the bad stuff I did because a lot of people do things that are pretty unsavory.
MICHAELSON (voiceover): A haunting interview with Rob Reiner and son Nick, nearly a decade before police would allege that Nick Reiner, quote, "was responsible for the deaths of his father and mother, Michelle." The legendary movie director and his wife, also a producer, found dead Sunday in their home in the exclusive Brentwood neighborhood of Los Angeles.
JIM MCDONNELL, LOS ANGELES POLICE CHIEF: First of all, our hearts go out to the family and friends of the Reiners tragic incident.
MICHAELSON (voiceover): Police say they were called to the Reiner home at 3:40 p.m. local time on Sunday. Nick Reiner quickly became a suspect and was taken into custody just over five and a half hours later.
MICHAELSON: Investigators obtained a search warrant to search Reiner's home, which is behind us, where it says private property. And then they made a key discovery.
MCDONELL: I wouldn't be in a position to talk specifically about what the object of the searcher warrant was, but it's a critical piece of our investigations to be able to ensure down the road a prosecution.
MICHAELSON (voiceover): A source familiar with the incident tells CNN, Nick and his father Rob were seen having an argument Saturday night at a holiday party thrown by Conan O'Brien where Michelle was also in attendance. Nick Reiner had well known battles with substance abuse.
But by 2015, he said he was clean and co-wrote the film Being Charlie, inspired by his own experiences with drug addiction, directed by his father.
ROB REINER: You know, we did get into fights over things but ultimately it forced us to make the film better.
MICHAELSON (voiceover): An interview promoting the film. Rob and Nick Reiner spoke openly about the process of portraying the difficult times they lived through.
REINER: The fact that we were dealing with, you know, things that Nick had gone through, and how I had related to it and how his mother had related to it, it forced us have to -- it forced me to have to see more clearly and understand more deeply what Nick had gone through.
MICHAELSON (voiceover): The loss felt in politics too. Reiner, known for his work in the Democratic Party.
I talked to California Governor Gavin Newsom about Reiner's advocacy. GAVIN NEWSSOM, CALIFORNIA GOVERNOR: Elex. I was out there feeling a
little alone doing same sex marriage in 2004. It was Rob who reached out. It's how I got to know him, saying he had my back at a time when a lot of members of my own party, a Democratic party, didn't.
MICHAEL TRUJILLO, WORKED WITH REINER: Amazing boss.
MICHAELSON (voiceover): Michael Trujillo worked at Reiner's production company.
MICHAELSON: How are you processing this? The shock of this?
TRUJILLO: Not well. He was a mentor. He taught a lot of us, you know, how to be a good person, and I'm going to miss him. I think it was just nice knowing he was there.
MICHAELSON (voiceover): As the world mourns the man behind classics like Stand By Me, Misery, and A Few Good Men.
JACK NICHOLSON, HOLLYWOOD ACTOR: You can't handle the truth.
MICHAELSON (voiceover): It's Reiner's millions of fans worldwide who can't handle the truth today.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
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MICHAELSON: We'll have more on this story throughout the next two hours. But our other big story is in Rhode Island, where authorities have released new details about the Brown University shooting suspect, including the surveillance footage you're now seeing on your screen. The FBI says that person has a stocky build. It's about five foot eight. Law enforcement says he should be considered armed and dangerous. They believe that he specifically targeted Brown University and does not pose a threat to the community at large.
The FBI has announced a $50,000 reward for information leading to the suspect's identification and arrest. On Monday, an FBI spokesperson said they would continue to assist local authorities in their investigation and directly addressed growing community concerns.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TED DOCKS, SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE, FBI BOSTON FIELD OFFICE: It's painstaking work, and we are asking the public to be patient as we continue to run down every lead so we can get victims, survivors, and their families, and all of you the answers you deserve.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: But now, more than two days after the shooting and with no arrests made, some patience is running thin. President Trump was asked, why is it taking the FBI so long to identify the suspect?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: You really have to ask the school a little bit more about that
because, you know, this was a school problem. They had their own guards, they had their own police, they had their own everything. But you'd have to ask that question really to the school, not to the FBI. We came in after the fact.
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MICHAELSON: Joining me now for more on these major stories. You see her right there, CNN's Chief Legal Analyst and host of Laura Coates Live. Laura Coates.
Laura, great to have you on set in Los Angeles tonight. Such dinner, difficult news over the weekend on so many different fronts. But let's start with Brown University and sort of your takeaway from that investigation, what investigators are now doing behind the scenes and also in front of the cameras.
LAURA COATES, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: It's so traumatic to think about these young people, some of whom had already experienced school shootings in the past, now revisiting that trauma yet again in these classrooms and beyond. And you have an ongoing manhunt here, which means you've got all different players involved.
You've got the university and their authorities. You've got the local law enforcement. You have the FBI, who's all trying to work together to figure out who. Who's going to be top dog and work for the common goal, which is to get this suspect. They've released information to the public in the form of the video. It's grainy, it's not really clear.
His mask is on. We know a stocky build, 5 foot 8. Not a very descriptive description. And yet we've seen in recent times, whether it's Luigi Mangione, whether it's Charlie Kirk's killer, that sometimes a family member might be able to say, I know this person. I know that walk. I know that jacket. I was in that area. And they're trying to get as much help as possible.
MICHAELSON: The Boston Marathon bomber. Think of that.
COATES: The Boston Marathon bomb, you're absolutely right.
MICHAELSON: You know, that took within about a day or so. They put out that, and then he was eventually brought into custody. So, as a prosecutor, sort of what goes through your mind when you see some of this, and then you also see some of the finger-pointing that's already happening.
COATES: I'm looking to figure out how to build my case and not have the public know so much information that if I find a suspect through law enforcement, that some detail that has been leaked or detail that has been out in the public does not somehow minimize that universe of people who could possibly know the information. I want to have just enough, so I have a confession of sorts, or I have somebody who can say, well, that wasn't released, and this person knew this detail. Why is that? It builds my case in terms of premeditation, the burden I'd have to
prove as a prosecutor. But it also gets us closer to justice to figure out what actually happened here. I'm also combing through ring cameras. I'm looking at cell phones that are pinging different areas.
I'm thinking about ways in which law enforcement can help to support the evidentiary burden of figuring out how to map that person's locations out. It is an overwhelming process, but it's in conjunction with so many different entities. But at the end of the day, these families want to have justice. The community wants to have peace, and our country wants to feel safer knowing that the manhunt's over.
MICHAELSON: Yes. Because if you, if you're a parent with a kid there or you're a kid there yourself, you do not want to hear --
COATES: I can't imagine.
MICHAELSON: -- that this is -- this person hasn't been caught. Let's talk now about the Rob Reiner case. Such a sad, sad story.
COATES: Yes.
MICHAELSON: And now the son behind bars. What do you think of that investigation, and what must be going on there?
COATES: I had to put my feelings aside personally about a fan I am of the work of Rob Reiner, and just think about the torture and torment of this family who is watching their parents having been deceased and their brother, the finger being pointed at him. But the word responsible I want you to pay attention to.
MICHAELSON: Yes. What does that word?
COATES: Responsible.
MICHAELSON: Why they use that word?
COATES: He's not yet been charged with a crime under the authorities that can do so. That's the DA that will have the case as early as tomorrow. And charges could actually happen. Right now, it's about identifying the suspect and what may have caused the actual death of these individuals. But the actual terminology of the murder charge, et cetera, that's a legal term.
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But it could also mean that this person is not yet in a state of mind. They can communicate effectively their intent or lack thereof, and therefore they might not have been able to be questioned with the requisite Miranda rights or the requisite amount of counsel being present, or their current mental health state to have a conversation.
So it could be that they are aware that a crime has been committed. They're aware that this person likely did it. But they can't actually get the information out of the person as of yet. MICHAELSON: So if somebody is experiencing a drug addiction, an
overdose, a situation where they're having a mental health breakdown, you just basically have to wait. Is that the deal?
COATES: Well, in order to actually have the charging, you might have that incident, because you have to have some information, if it's only independent of that actually corroborates what the charge is going to be. Now, somebody who has been like a DUI, they have to sort of get sobered up before they go in for a judge, right? You've heard that happen before.
This, though, is a different scenario. It could very well be they're trying to figure out whether there was any motive, any premeditation, any information that there was a plan, or was it a matter of the person not remembering what's happened. Have they blacked out in some way? Are not able to communicate for whatever reason?
I have to dot my I's and cross my T's, because whatever happens right now can lead to either a productive investigation or one where the person can get off on technicality.
MICHAELSON: Yes. And, you know, were so excited that you were coming here tonight.
COATES: Yes. So happy to see you.
MICHAELSON: And we were going to have an opportunity to just hang out and learn more about you. And unfortunately, we had this very heavy weekend. I mean, so many terrible news stories.
Just on a somewhat lighter note, just to honor Rob Reiner's life, because I think it's so sad that so much of this is focused on his death and not enough about his life. Do you have favorite Rob Reiner movie?
COATES: Oh, my. A Few Good Men. Hello. Yes.
MICHAELSON: Did that inspire you in a big way?
COATES: I mean, everything Tom Cruise does is wonderful to me, but also, of course, Rob Reiner. But Stand By Me, Misery, Spinal Tap. My ultimate favorite, though, When Harry Met Sally. I cannot tell you off that I referenced Sally Albright and Harry Burns. I watch it every single fall. I love the New Year's Eve scene and the whole idea of the song and what happened. I won't spoil it for people.
But knowing that the story changed because he met his wife and became an optimist is like the ultimate moment for me. I am so happy that he shared his artistry with the world, that his love affair with his wife created the beautiful ending of Harry Met Sally. And honestly, for me, all of his work will live in for me because he was so talented and wonderful, and I could go on about that body of work. But to me, When Harry Met Sally will always make me smile, will always make me remember joy.
MICHAELSON: And of course, his mom -- COATES: Yes, in the scene.
MICHAELSON: Had the greatest line in the history. That may be the greatest line in the history of movies.
COATES: I'll have what she's having. Are you kidding me? Are you my spirit animal?
MICHAELSON: There you go. Yes, yes.
COATES: I love it.
MICHAELSON: Although I'm a political geek, I love the American President the best. That as a kid was my favorite movie.
COATES: Remember it to drive. This is everything in. It was great. Oh, I like you even more now. Elex Michaelson. Okay, movie night.
MICHAELSON: Aaron Sorkin, baby. All right, Laura, thank you so much.
COATES: Thank you.
MICHAELSON: Good to see you. And we're thinking of the Reiner family, and everybody impacted as well.
More big news happening tonight. The U.S. Military says eight people are dead following a new strike on three alleged drug trafficking boats in the eastern Pacific. This is on Monday.
U.S. Southern Command says the attacks were ordered by Defense Secretary Pete Hagseth says against three vessels being operated by designated terrorist organizations. That's how they describe them. It's happened international waters. At least 95 people have been killed over the past few months as part of the Trump administration's campaign to reduce narcotics trafficking.
Just ahead, we go live to Sydney, Australia for the latest on the Bondi Beach attack. We're learning about the suspects and what Australia is doing to prevent another mass shooting, something that probably will never happen here. At least not anytime soon. It's a live picture right now from FIT Sydney, Australia, as we look at that growing memorial live report from there. The other side of the break.
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MICHAELSON: Ukraine's top negotiator says real progress was made in Berlin. Two days of peace talks that's saw President Zelensky meet with leaders from across Europe and a delegation from the U.S. Zelensky also echoing that sentiment saying negotiators from Ukraine and the U.S. could meet as soon as this weekend has worked to end the war and reach a deal gains momentum.
Feels like we've heard this before. CNN's Frederik Plaikten has more from Berlin. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The U.S. delegation led by Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner said they spoke to the Ukrainians for about eight hours in total and also say that they made speaker substantial headway on a lot of very contentious and difficult issues. Of course, part of that is reconstruction of Ukraine, but one of the things that, for instance the German side and also the Ukrainian side confirmed is they say that a lot of headway was made as far as security guarantees are concerned.
The Germans saying that they believe that the security guarantees are almost adequate as to being almost like NATO security guarantees. Here's what Friedrich Matt's the German Chancellor and Ukraine's president had to say at a press conference.
FRIEDRICH MERZ, GERMAN CHANCELLOR (voiceover): The legal and material guarantees that the U.S. has put on the table here in Berlin are truly remarkable. This is a very important step forward which I very much welcome.
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VOLODYMYR ZELENSKY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (voiceover): Therefore, it is important that the US views Article 5 like arrangements plus relevant security guarantees. We are currently working to have all this written out, and we are making progress there. I see the details from the military that they have been working on. They look quite good, although this is only first draft.
PLEITGEN: One of the thorniest issues on the table is of course that of territories. Whether or not the Ukrainians are going to be willing to cede territory to the Russians, and whether or not they do so officially, or whether they simply say that right now they don't have the strength to gain those territories back. That's something where the U.S. side says the Russians and the Ukrainians are going to have to come to some sort of agreement at some point in time. But certainly, that's been identified as a really big problem that remains.
And of course, the other big problem with that is whether or not the Russians are willing to sign on to any sort of deal that could be made here, any sort of agreements that could be made here. The U.S. says right now all of this is going to go back into working groups in the United States to try and move things further. Of course, at some stage they are also going to brief the Kremlin and see what Vladimir Putin has to say. Frederik Pleitgen, CNN Berlin.
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MICHAELSON: New details are emerging about the two suspects in the Bondi Beach massacre and their likely ties to the Islamic State. Authorities confirmed the vehicle belonging to one of the suspects contained improvised explosive devices, or IEDs as they're known, and two homemade ISIS flags. Police adding that the father and son had traveled to the Philippines last month. Australia's Federal Police Commissioner spoke out few hours ago.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KRISSY BARRETT, AUSTRALIAN FEDERAL POLICE COMMISSIONER: Early indications point to a terrorist attack inspired by Islamic State allegedly committed by a father and son. There is no evidence to suggest other individuals were involved in this attack. However, we caution that this could change, given it is early in our investigation.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MICHAELSON: She went on to say that Jewish Australians had been hunted down. Among the 15 people ruthlessly killed, 10-year-old Matilda, who was enjoying the beach festivities with her family and friends, and 87-year-old Holocaust survivor Elex Kleppman, who died while shielding his wife from the bullets. According to a Jewish organization, they migrated to Australia from Ukraine.
CNN's Angus Watson is live covering this story from Sydney. Angus, what's the latest from where you're.
ANGUS WATSON, CNN PRODUCER: Elex, the suspects of this are, of course, 50-year-old Sajid Akram and his 24-year-old son, Naveed Akram. Sajid Akram was killed at the scene on Sunday as he was taking aim at people attending this Hanukkah festival. His son Naveed is still in hospital in a critical but stable condition. Their past association -- Naveed's past association with ISIS is the real focus of investigations.
Now, we know that he was on ASIO's radar. That's the Australian Security Service, ASIO's radar. But they didn't believe him to be an imminent threat. They're going to go back and see why not. The father, Naveed Akram, was licensed to carry six firearms. He used some of those in the attack on Sunday. The pair of them in November went to the Philippines, to Mindanao. That's where, of course, an ISIS offshoot fought a bloody war with the Philippines government, conducting several horrific terrorist attacks some 10 years ago.
What we now are trying to piece together is whether there are others associated with them. Considering that long-held association that Naveed has with ISIS, Elex, that's something the police are going to focus on.
MICHAELSON: Meanwhile, Angus, we know how hard it is to pass gun control legislation in the United States of America, but we're looking at a different reality in Australia, right?
WATSON: That's right. There is broad support for tightening already very strict gun laws here in Australia. The semiautomatic rifles that you see used in mass shootings in the United States, they are banned here.
The attackers on Sunday used long-arm rifles that are legal here. The government wants to close down some of the avenues in which people can keep those guns for long periods of time. So in this example, Sajid Akram had a gun license despite the fact that he wasn't an Australian national. That's something that the government wants to crack down on.
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The government also wants to reassess people's firearms licenses more frequently. The government notes that people can become radicalised while still holding a long-term gun license. It also wants to establish a digital online register of all guns across the country so that it just knows who has them.
This all happened the gun laws in Australia all came about because of a horrific massacre 30 years ago in Tasmania. Take a look at that.
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WATSON (voiceover): The horrific violence against Sydney's Jewish community and crowds at Bondi Beach on Sunday. The worst mass shooting in Australia since 1996.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It hit the gunshots.
WATSON (voiceover): When 35 people were killed by a lone gunman at Port Arthur in Tasmania. That attack prompted the centre-right government of the time to enact some of the world's strictest gun laws. Rates of gun violence plummeted.
JOHN HOWARD, FORMER AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: And the whole country just reeled for days afterwards. And the overwhelming feeling was this is terrible. We had to do something about it.
WATSON (voiceover): A multi-million dollar buyback scheme was put in place with a short amnesty period before guns were made illegal except under license with strict conditions. Semi-automatic weapons like the one used at Port Arthur are completely banned. But the guns turned on. Children, families and the elderly as they celebrated Hanukkah on Sunday were owned legally. A 50-year-old suspect killed at the scene held permits to six long barreled guns.
Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese now says that one response to this tragedy must be to tighten gun laws further.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: The government is prepared to take whatever action is necessary. Included in that is the need for tougher gun laws.
WATSON (voiceover): The Australian government has shown it can legislate to curb gun violence. People here in Bondi are demanding an end to anti-Semitism along with it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WATSON: So Elex, as you heard, there is a political will to further restrict guns. There is certainly a public will to do that now after this horror that people witnessed on Sunday. Elex.
MICHAELSON: Angus Watson in Sydney, where it's 425 in the afternoon on Tuesday, in the middle of the summer at the beach. Angus, thank you so much.
When we come back, we'll talk about the gun issue and some of the big political news in America with our political panel Cenk Uygur of the Young Turks on the left, Jennifer Horn, conservative radio host on the right. Their debate next.
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DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Well, I wasn't a fan of his at all. He was a deranged person as far as Trump is concerned.
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I think he hurt himself in -- career-wise. He became like a deranged person. Trump Derangement Syndrome. So, I was not a fan of Rob Reiner at all, in any way, shape or form. I thought he was very bad for our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: President Trump getting a lot of criticism, even from Republicans, over his statements on the death of Rob Reiner.
Let's bring in our panel. Cenk Uygur is the founder and host of "The Young Turks," the original political partner on YouTube, one of the biggest political shows there is online. And Jennifer Horn is the host of "The Morning Answer" on 870 AM here in Los Angeles. Welcome to you both.
JENNIFER HORN, HOST, 870 AM'S "THE MORNING ANSWER": Thank you.
MICHAELSON: Thanks so much for being here.
CENK UYGUR, FOUNDER/HOST, "THE YOUNG TURKS": Thanks, Elex.
MICHAELSON: Welcome to the show for the first time.
UYGUR: Appreciate it, brother.
MICHAELSON: It's great to have you.
UYGUR: Good to see you on here.
MICHAELSON: Since it's your first time, we'll start with you and give you the easy one. What do you think of President Trump's comments?
UYGUR: So, look, it's easy to say that they're horrible and thoughtless and totally unnecessary. And you don't have to agree with the guy, right?
Rob Reiner cared a lot, though. Everybody knew he cared. And he cared about the country and about taking care of people. So, Trump disagreed with the way that he wanted to help the country. So what? Right? But it's -- Elex, I'm worried that it's worse than that. The guy has
trouble with empathy. And when you have a leader who has no empathy, that's a big problem. Because if he doesn't have any empathy for a guy who was just killed by his own son in a horribly tragic way, who's an iconic American figure, Jesus, who does he have empathy for? And I'm afraid that the answer is not very many people.
MICHAELSON: Jennifer.
HORN: His long-term empathy doesn't seem -- it's not the concern for me. Because I've heard many people in President Trump's circles, and even outside of them, people who've worked for him for a long time, say that he shows a lot of empathy, and he gets to know their stories.
President Trump has taken a lot of incoming, took a lot of incoming from Rob Reiner, actually, and from a lot of people.
But here's the thing. I don't think those comments, necessarily, something that I would have done. I don't necessarily think that they're at the right moment or at the right time. No matter where people are politically, a life is a life. And I think we, we -- we all need to do a little bit better.
And sadly, I think the reason that maybe Trump supporters are going to jump to the president's defense here is that the story has now become Trump's comments about Rob Reiner, rather than about Rob Reiner and his great contributions to our society. I think there's been a lot of focus on -- on the tweet, rather than all of the issues surrounding it.
UYGUR: But that's what Trump does. He makes every story about himself, and he -- negative attention, positive attention. He almost doesn't care. He's just me, me, me, me, me.
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But brother, this wasn't about you, right? And so, like, I disagreed a lot with Charlie Kirk, but when he got killed, I was brokenhearted over it.
MICHAELSON: As was Rob Reiner, publicly so.
UYGUR: Yes. That's right. Both of us were.
MICHAELSON: Yes.
UYGUR: Because he's a human being, right? I had debates with him. I had conversations, interviews with him, and to see him get shot, it was just horrific.
And you hear about how Rob Reiner died. It's just -- it doesn't get any worse than that. And I mean, he -- his movies are beloved. You know "How [SIC] Harry Met Sally" and "Princess Bride" and "Spinal Tap," and it goes on and on. And some of the most beloved movies in American history. To take a shot at a guy like that after his tragic death, it's way beyond the pale. MICHAELSON: Cenk brings up the empathy issue. And you said that he's
empathetic, but how many of those people does he go over and above to show empathy for are people that disagree with him, or who have criticized him?
HORN: Yes, I think that's the tough part. Right? There's a definite separation between the -- the ego, because he's taken a lot of -- a lot of fire. I mean, you both, I think, have to admit that President Trump gets called terrible names.
MICHAELSON: Every single day.
HORN: All day long, every single day.
MICHAELSON: Yes. As much, if not more than any president. That is true.
HORN: And --
MICHAELSON: That's also part of the job.
HORN: And it is. But I think it goes a little step further when you're called a Nazi and a fascist and you're called all of these horrific names. Child predator. I mean, everybody has gone after Trump.
And so, what I think is -- is important for us to point out is that now probably wasn't the time for President Trump to make those comments. I agree with that.
As a Trump supporter, that's not going to make me stop supporting him, but certainly, it is something I think it's just not necessary. I don't think that, just because he makes a comment about someone who is very critical of him, meaning that he doesn't have any empathy in life, because I just know too many personal stories that indicate something totally different.
MICHAELSON: Yes. And in terms of Rob Reiner, just to take a moment to celebrate the life --
HORN: Sure.
MICHAELSON: -- and not make it all about him, I spoke with Michael Trujillo today, who's a longtime Democratic strategist, who actually got his start working for Rob Reiner on some of his early childhood education work. Here's what he's told me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: What was he like as a man?
MICHAEL TRUJILLO, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: He was good. He -- he told me -- he told me several times, if you know something to be true, and you have the means to -- to change it, and you do nothing, you should go to jail. And that was his North star.
(END VIDEO CLIP) MICHAELSON: Pretty nice North star in terms of following your -- your moral compass. And I mean, regardless of politics, very influential in politics, especially in this state.
HORN: Absolutely. And -- and we talked a little bit before we went on tonight. Look, I didn't agree with anything, really, politically that Rob Reiner said. Probably 99 percent of it I disagreed with, but I respected him, his talent.
I actually got to meet his dad, and you can just feel the talent in this family.
And look, whether you like what he said or not, he sparked a national debate with his movies, with his TV appearances, with his writing and his -- his filmmaking. He sparked. He influenced a generation.
And I think no one deserved to go out the way that he did, and his contributions are going to be missed.
MICHAELSON: A note on his -- his political contributions to the Democratic Party.
UYGUR: Yes, what I loved about Rob Reiner in that regard is that he fought for people that were not him. Right? So, he fought to have taxes raised on the wealthy, even though he was wealthy; to help people that were not as advantaged as he was.
He fought for LGBTQ rights when he wasn't LGBTQ.
So, that's a guy after my own heart. Someone who looks out for everyone, no matter where they're from. And especially when he had the ability to do it. Just like your -- the person you talked to there. He thought he had a moral obligation to do it. And if everybody was like Rob Reiner, we'd all be way better off.
MICHAELSON: Yes, we were thinking about him tonight.
Meanwhile, we were just talking about this story out of Australia. The gun laws there that, you know, they have one shooting, and then all of a sudden, they change all the gun laws.
Let's put up on the screen some of the gun laws that they are now thinking about getting rid of or changing. Speed up national firearms registry, enhance intelligence and background checks, limit number of guns a person can own. Limit types of guns and modification.
Meanwhile, we seem to have a mass shooting every other day. Background checks are at 90 percent approval rating. We haven't been able to pass that in a decade.
UYGUR: Yes. So, first of all, there's something fundamentally broken about our government. So, we can't pass almost anything that's popular.
So, in the case of gun control, it's actually not every other day. There's a mass shooting that more than once a day. So far, I believe that we've got 394 mass shootings this year alone, 75 school shootings this year alone. We're playing Russian roulette with our lives and our kids' lives.
And it's remarkable that we're not doing anything about it, especially in a democracy.
So, to give you a sense of how popular some of these laws are, universal background checks are at 86 percent. A great majority of Republicans, great majority of gun owners want them, 80 percent for red flag laws.
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But yet, we can't pass the -- the bare, bare minimum. And there's two reasons for that. One is the same as almost every other -- the reason why every law doesn't pass, which is money in politics.
MICHAELSON: Right.
UYGUR: So, the gun lobby totally owns the Republican Party, and they've got a -- a death lock on them, if you will.
And then the second reason is there is 20 percent of this country, which is a significant portion of the Republican Party, real voters, who are adamant about this, and they will not let it go.
MICHAELSON: It is a voting issue for them.
UYGUR: Yes. Absolutely.
MICHAELSON: It is the one issue that they will vote on. Just like immigration is a voting issue for some people, health care is a voting issue for some people.
Jennifer, there's a lot of issues that people talk about and complain about.
HORN: They've all got issues.
MICHAELSON: But there aren't that many issues that are voting -- this is the one thing.
HORN: Yes, it will drive people.
MICHAELSON: And it is that way.
HORN: And I'd add, actually, one more thing to your list about why you can't get gun laws. And that is the Constitution. That pesky little thing, the Constitution. The Second Amendment gives us the right to have and bear arms.
And I will tell you this: nobody wants to see these mass shootings. But if you need any instruction as to why gun laws don't work, look at -- look at Australia today.
They have all the gun laws in the world, and yet, the bad guys still get the guns. What could have stopped that situation is a well-armed police force. The good guy who actually -- we saw this guy who was a hero, who went in and stopped the shooter. We need more of that in this country.
Brown University may not be a story this week, if indeed, we had a secure -- if we secured our institutions and allowed more good guys with the guns. You can't take them away from the good guys and give them to the bad. The bad guys will always get the guns.
MICHAELSON: Cenk.
UYGUR: So, Jennifer, we've had -- Australia just had its first shooting in 30 years, whereas we have had mass shootings at a rate of more than one a day. That is a massive difference. That 100 percent proves that gun control works and, without gun control we have massive amount of gun homicides, suicides. About 60,000 people a year die every year.
So, you know, they say freedom isn't free. OK, but this price is a very high price to pay. Sixty thousand Americans die every year through gun violence, when in countries like Japan and Australia it almost never happens decade after decade after decade.
And look, the Second Amendment says where -- whereas a militia is necessary. So, we have no militia here. It definitely does not apply. I know that I'm not going to win that argument with the Supreme Court, because they're right-wingers, and I don't believe that they were interpreting it correctly at all.
HORN: Well, or it's the Constitution.
UYGUR: No, it's plain English. It's absolutely plain English.
MICHAELSON: How do you respond to that? The statistics --
HORN: I would say --
MICHAELSON: -- that we have more shootings here in America, because we have a lot more guns.
HORN: We have a lot more shootings in California, and California has very tight gun control compared to other states around the country.
Look, my point is that it would be worse without the good guys armed to protect themselves. Because if we want to start talking about all of the things that people could do wrong, look at the stories that we had today.
You've had attacks with cars. You've had attacks. We had a terror plot that was just broken up with IEDs. What are you going to start doing? You cannot outlaw everything.
What we have to do is protect ourselves. And protecting ourselves means that we have to make sure that good guys -- people like you, people like me, people like Elex -- can protect our home and can protect our families by having a firearm there for home security. UYGUR: Look, we're in a vicious cycle here, because the more that
there's gun shootings, the more people want to protect themselves by having more guns.
MICHAELSON: And every time we have a shooting, gun sales go up.
UYGUR: Exactly.
MICHAELSON: Adn the gun lobby makes -- makes a lot of money.
UYGUR: The gun lobby loves shootings. OK? That's -- they love when bad guys get guns. That's why they're in favor of cop killer bullets. They're in favor of not allowing guns where you could actually have biometric readings.
MICHAELSON: But -- but is there not some truth to what Jennifer is saying, that in that situation, wouldn't you have wanted a good guy to have a gun and take that guy out faster?
UYGUR: Well, first of all, we did have a good guy there, that Ahmed al-Ahmed, and he did not have a gun. And he was shot twice, and he still rushed the guy and took his weapon away from him, which was amazing and miraculous.
But no, the problem is, whenever there's a gun in the house, you're statistically more likely to get harmed. So, through suicide, through accidents, through mistakes. You think you're safer, but you're actually not.
But the more the guns there are, I get it. I get why people feel so nervous and uneasy. Well, if everybody else is on arm -- is armed, I'm the only one that's unarmed. It's a problem.
But, guys, were living in this, like, post-apocalyptic world where now people have started telling me I'm not coming to America anymore. It's a shooting gallery. It's insane. It's -- going to America is like taking your life into your hands.
The rest of the world cannot believe that we have more than one mass shooting per day, on average, and we've had that for decades.
Think about the 30 years where there was no mass shootings in Australia, whereas we have had over 300 mass shootings every year. You do the math on that, and we're looking at about, I mean, what, 9,000 shootings more? How many more dead? Tens and tens of thousands.
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There are graveyards filled with dead bodies because of lack of gun control in this country. It's -- it's not the right direction. And every country has proven that.
MICHAELSON: To wrap up, something on the more fun side, favorite Rob Reiner movie?
HORN: Oh, gosh. "Stand by Me." UYGUR: It's impossible, because they're all so great. But I watched
"Princess Bride" again with my kids the other day. God, I love that movie. And so, I'm going to go, "Princess Bride."
HORN: Is it weird to say "Misery," too, for an honorable mention? Because I loved it.
MICHAELSON: I think in this business we love misery.
HORN: I know.
MICHAELSON: All of -- all of us do in the political business. Jennifer, Cenk, thank you. A respectful conversation and one that a lot of people are having right now. We really appreciate it.
HORN: Thank you.
MICHAELSON: Coming up, they hid in fear for their lives. Let's talk more about this. Now, they're asking what comes next. Speaking of mass shootings, we talk about the experience of Brown University students in the aftermath of Saturday's deadly campus shooting.
And how the international students reacted very differently than students that are from here, for some of the reasons that Cenk was just talking about.
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MICHAELSON: As the manhunt continues for the Brown University shooter, students on the Rhode Island campus are left with fear and uncertainty.
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MICHAELSON: Many students spent hours locked down in classrooms on Saturday, barricading doors and sending texts to loved ones as the gunfire rang out.
Now, with two students dead, nine others injured, and no one in custody, some say their sense of security has been shattered. Classes are canceled, exams are on hold, and many are left wondering what campus safety will look like when things get back to normal.
Joining me now is author and journalist Harlan Cohen, who was in contact with Brown University students during that lockdown on Saturday.
Harlan, thanks for being with us. I found it especially interesting you had -- felt like the international students and the students from America had a very different experience. How so? HARLAN COHEN, AUTHOR/JOURNALIST: Well, first of all, thanks for having
me here.
And I just want to take a second to just tell all the Brown families and everybody who has had to shelter in place that my heart goes out to them.
And I want to just take a second to recognize this is Brown University. This is one of the most prestigious schools in the United States. This is a place that has more money, more resources, the ability to track everyone and everything.
And they release grainy footage that can be anybody two days after people are hiding under desks, barricading themselves in rooms, throwing refrigerators behind doors, trying to do everything they can to protect themselves. And this is what is happening on one of Americas most prestigious college campuses.
MICHAELSON: I know it's upsetting. Back to the question about the difference in what you saw from the international students --
COHEN: Yes.
MICHAELSON: -- and those that live here.
COHEN: So, Elex, when this was going on, I had a DM back and forth with a student who was barricaded in their room. And they asked me the question, is this something that happens here? Is there a precedent?
And when they DM'd me, is there a precedent? I thought, you know, precedent. Well, this is America. Shootings happen all the time.
And I explained this, and then they said, they're not from here. They're an international student.
And I explained to them that this is part of our culture. This is something that happens. We don't know where it's going to happen or when it's going to happen, but we know it's going to happen because it continues to happen.
And then I asked if they had a roommate. And they said they had a roommate who's from the United States. So, that roommate, fortunately, has been trained since kindergarten, first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth, eleventh, twelfth grade, learning how to shelter in place; knowing how to stack block, stack furniture, stack whatever they can to protect themselves.
So, this student felt that they were going to be safe as police walked down the hall, actually screaming down the hall, telling them to remain -- to remain -- to shelter in place.
They were shook, and they're upset. Parents are upset. We're all upset.
MICHAELSON: Sort of concisely, bottom line, what do you think needs to happen? COHEN: Well, I think the first thing is we need to make sure that we
can track what's happening on our college campuses.
I was at the grocery store today, and there were cameras everywhere. There was more security at Kroger than there is in a place where students should feel safe. So, we have to protect our students.
And then we need to make sure that our international families, when you have students coming to the United States, you need to know what are these schools doing to protect your students?
MICHAELSON: Yes.
COHEN: How can you be alerted if there's an emergency? And how do you know that you can keep your child safe? Because we don't know that we can here.
MICHAELSON: Harlan, thanks so much for staying up late for us, live from Chicago. Really appreciate it.
COHEN: Thanks, Elex.
MICHAELSON: Ahead, "The Age of Disclosure." It's a documentary that could change the way we think about the universe and our place in it. That's not hyperbole. I'll speak with the film's director and producer, who joins me on set, ahead in our next hour.
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MICHAELSON: Some breaking news that I think a lot of people are going to care about. Nobody won the Powerball tonight.
Not long ago, numbers were drawn for the $1.1 billion Powerball jackpot. That's the second largest prize this year. The winning numbers are 23, 35, 56, 63, 68 with a Powerball of two.
But nobody won. So that means on Wednesday night, the estimated jackpot is 1.25 billion, 1.25 billion.
So, get your tickets.
That's it for this hour of THE STORY IS. A lot of news in the next hour of THE STORY IS, which starts right now.
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MICHAELSON (voice-over): THE STORY IS --
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