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The Story Is with Elex Michaelson
Police Release New Images, Video of Person of Interest in Brown University Shooting; Nick Reiner Charged with Murder in Parents' Deaths; Australian Prime Minister Says Bondi Beach Massacre Appears to be Inspired by ISIS; Vance Brags About Economy Despite Negative Reports; HUD Secretary Says Baltimore Program Should Be Model for Country. Aired 12-1a ET
Aired December 17, 2025 - 00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN ANCHOR: THE STORY IS the manhunt continues in Rhode Island as new evidence provides a clearer image of a person of interest in the shooting at Brown University.
THE STORY IS murder charges for Rob Reiner's son. Why Nick Reiner did not appear in court today.
THE STORY IS the economy.
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A plus, plus, plus.
MICHAELSON: A debate over Vice President J.D. Vance's rating, Brian Tyler Cohen on the left and Will O'Neill on the right.
And THE STORY IS homelessness.
SCOTT TURNER, HOUSE AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT SECRETARY: This is a model that should be replicated and multiplied.
MICHAELSON: An exclusive interview with President Trump's secretary of Housing and Urban Development, Scott Turner. Why he thinks faith based organizations are key to getting people off the streets.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from Los Angeles, THE STORY IS with Elex Michaelson.
MICHAELSON: Welcome to THE STORY IS. I'm Elex Michaelson.
A lot of stories to follow tonight, but our top story is in Providence, Rhode Island, where police are asking for the public's help to find a person of interest in the mass shooting at Brown University over the weekend. Authorities released this new image along with video, providing a zoomed in look at the person on Saturday afternoon before the shooting at that Ivy League school. They're also warning people to avoid potentially harmful speculation
about who that shooter might be. The attack killed two students and wounded nine people. The city's mayor says even though the shooting occurred on campus, the route of travel and most of the video so far come from off campus in nearby neighborhoods.
Joining me now is CNN's Danny Freeman, who is in Providence, Rhode Island.
You've been following this all day. What's the big takeaway from today, Danny?
DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Listen, Elex, we had a lot of new takeaways. You mentioned that brand new images and video that we got from law enforcement. But perhaps the most shocking thing that we learned from a press conference earlier this evening was that this suspect, this person of interest that police are looking for, police believe that he was casing the place long before the shooting took place.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHIEF OSCAR L. PEREZ JUNIOR, PROVIDENCE POLICE DEPARTMENT: This enhanced video footage --
FREEMAN (voice-over): The clearest pictures yet. Law enforcement releasing a new image and videos today, hoping this will lead to the capture of the Brown University shooter.
PEREZ: We're asking the public to look.
FREEMAN (voice-over): The images released by Providence Police and the FBI appear to show the person of interest hours before the shooting wandering just blocks away from the university. Newly enhanced video showing close-up images of the individual police are looking to question. In one video, the FBI spotlights a person standing around before darting back in a different direction. Another shows the man running down a different street nearly two hours before the shooting.
PEREZ: We're asking the public to ensure that they can see them -- they can see here that you want to focus on the body movements, the way the person moves their arms.
FREEMAN (voice-over): In some instances, the person appears to have a bag strapped to his body and is wearing gloves. In others, no gloves and no bag.
Do you believe that this person that we're looking at is your shooter -- is your shooting suspect?
PEREZ: Definitely he's still a person of interest, and we're still investigating that to be able to get that answer. But we strongly believe that a suspect in the incident and a person of interest.
FREEMAN (voice-over): Providence Police also releasing this new image of the person of interest. Stocky build, black mask, black hat and a two-toned jacket.
PEREZ: We believe that he was actually casing out this area to commit the crime.
FREEMAN (voice-over): Back on campus, FBI investigators moved in and out of the crime scene while trying to determine bullet trajectories.
PETER NERONHA, RHODE ISLAND ATTORNEY GENERAL: There are dozens of agents, detectives, led by Providence Police, prosecutors from my office are working to put together, and what you're seeing is just a portion of what they're working on.
FREEMAN (voice-over): These new leads come after the FBI director and local law enforcement announced the detention of a different person of interest, and then released that person back on Sunday night. Rhode Island's attorney general criticizing the messaging of that initial capture on out front.
NERONHA: I think because people who aren't familiar and aren't experienced in investigations got over their skis. I was very careful with my words. And the reason for that is you don't want to overpromise and under-deliver.
FREEMAN (voice-over): Local officials still acknowledging this investigation is complex.
MAJ. DAVID LAPATIN, PROVIDENCE POLICE DEPARTMENT: We're trying to do the best job we can. And some things we have to keep, you know, out of the public light until we're ready to come out with everything.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MICHAELSON: Danny is back with us now.
Do investigators have any video of the shooter inside?
FREEMAN (on-camera): You know, Elex, this has been one of the key questions that so many of us have been wondering. And now that we're getting new video, we of course asked that question of law enforcement.
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And per the attorney general, the answer is no. And it's because this building behind me has two parts. There's a newer part closer to me, and then an older part that's in the back where this shooting took place. And basically the attorney general explained that in the back there aren't as many cameras and there was no clean shot of the shooter's face.
Unfortunately, and very chillingly, the bulk of the video that they do have from inside the building behind me is video of students fleeing the shooting to this newer part behind me right here -- Elex.
MICHAELSON: Yes. Such a sad situation for them.
Danny, thank you so much for your reporting tonight.
Joining me now is CNN law enforcement contributor and retired FBI supervisory special agent Steve Moore, who's with us live in studio.
Steve, thanks so much for being with us. I know you're especially focused on 50 minutes.
STEVE MOORE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, yes, that's what I would be looking at if this were my case. I'd want to know where he was for the 50 minutes that they don't have him under any kind of surveillance because to me it seems at that point he made a decision to do something else and that something else involved picking up a pistol.
I believe that the satchel he's got is akin to, say, one of those fanny packs that off-duty law enforcement used to wear in the late '90s, early 2000s. And to me, it seems like he went and got his pistol and -- or his weapon. I assume it's a pistol. What I'm concerned about is that within, say, a 20-minute walk out and a 20-minute walk back, he had that stash somewhere. He had a place where he felt safe keeping it.
Was it a car? Was it an apartment? We really -- that's a key bit of information.
MICHAELSON: Now we don't know really.
MOORE: Not at all. Not at all.
MICHAELSON: Whether that is at all. Another thing you find interesting is the fact how snow could be impacting this investigation.
MOORE: Yes. If you if you look at these videos right here that they've got, it's a clean street. There's no snow there at all. The day after, of course, it snowed and -- or that night it snowed. So any evidence that he might have dropped, I'm not saying he did, but you always hope any evidence, anything he dropped, any footprints, anything like that is going to be compromised by a layer of snow on top of it.
MICHAELSON: This is not the greatest quality video that they put out there, telling people to check out his gait, to be focused on that. They're also asking for, like, Tesla owners, instead. That records videos. Do you have any videos, to come forward. Sort of what do you see when you look at that video?
MOORE: Well, I'm kind of -- first of all, I'm looking between the lines here. If I was in the FBI and we were asking people to say, do you recognize his gait, the way he walks, you're in trouble because that's -- when you have a good case and the investigation is going well, you're not going to see a lot of pictures and asking for the public's help. You ask for the public's help or help when you're stuck. And the more general the information you give them, the less specific information you actually have.
MICHAELSON: Because if you really know who he is, you don't want to give him an indication you know who he is, then he might flee, right? MOORE: Exactly. Yes. And we would ask for the public's help and give
us some information on somebody. But that would just be to give the person the idea that we didn't have any idea. This is people asking who don't have any idea. And I know they're working hard and I know they're handicapped by the snow and the -- by the lack of cameras. So it must be pretty heart-wrenching for them.
MICHAELSON: Let's hope that they can get some answers soon, because there's a lot of people on that campus that are hurting tonight.
MOORE: Yes. Yes.
MICHAELSON: Steve Moore, thanks for your insight. Appreciate it.
MOORE: Thanks, Elex.
MICHAELSON: Now, the other big story that we're following, of course, Rob Reiner. Fans now visiting New York City's famed Katz's Deli to pay tribute to him following his tragic death. You may remember that spot from Reiner's iconic rom-com "When Harry Met Sally."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEG RYAN, ACTOR, "WHEN HARRY MET SALLY": It never happened to them, and most women at one time or another have done it. So you do the math.
BILLY CRYSTAL, ACTOR, "WHEN HARRY MET SALLY": You don't think that I could tell the difference?
RYAN: No.
CRYSTAL: Get out of here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: Of course, that's not the most iconic part of that scene, but a part we could show on TV right now. The film has forever tied to this Manhattan deli, to Hollywood. For many, it's now become a place to reflect on Reiner's lasting legacy. Behind-the-scenes photos from the movie set hang around the establishment, preserving the memories that he created there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEVIN ALBINDER, MANAGER, KATZ'S DELICATESSEN: I met him a handful of times here at the deli, and every time I try to get to talk to him, just for a few minutes, he was just a super nice guy.
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NICK MAKRIGIORGOS, VISITING FROM VIRGINIA: Kind of someone to me and my wife who kind of met each other, didn't think anything was happening all of a sudden became best of friends, and they fell in love.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: The L.A. County D.A. is charging the Reiners' son, Nick, with two counts of first-degree murder, alleging that he fatally stabbed them both.
CNN's Nick Watt has our story.
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NATHAN HOCHMAN, DISTRICT ATTORNEY, LOS ANGELES COUNTY: Our office will be filing charges against Nick Reiner, who is accused of killing his parents.
NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With a knife in their homes says the D.A. Nick Reiner had been living in the guest house, according to a source.
HOCHMAN: These charges will be two counts of first-degree murder.
WATT: LAPD photographs show officers and U.S. Marshals detaining Nick Reiner just after 9:00 p.m. Sunday on the street near USC, maybe 15 miles from the crime scene.
DEP. CHIEF ALAN HAMILTON, LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT: He was approached by the officers and he was arrested without incident. There was no indication that he was going to resist or anything like that.
WATT: They won't say what he had on him, if he confessed, if he was high, if they have a murder weapon, if a family member helped them I.D. Nick as a suspect or locate him. If he is convicted for murdering his parents, the sentence?
HOCHMAN: Life in prison without the possibility of parole or the death penalty. No decision at this point has been made. Like any of these cases, we will take the thoughts and desires of the family into consideration in making our decision.
WATT: Who is Nick Reiner?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Son of Rob Reiner, grandson of Carl Reiner. Total train wreck.
WATT: That's how he was introed on the podcast "Dopey" in 2018.
NICK REINER, ROB REINER'S SON: About like a year ago, I guess, I got back. I got back on dope and other things, and to make a really long story short, I wound up having a cocaine heart attack.
WATT: He's yoyoed since age 15 between rehab, sobriety and deep destructive relapses. Co-wrote a movie about it.
NICK ROBINSON, ACTOR, "BEING CHARLIE": I do have a disease. It's this place, OK? It makes you feel like a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) leper. And then when you get out, everyone is expecting you to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up again. So you start using.
Oh, wait, are you taking their side?
WATT: That movie is semi-autobiographical.
REINER: I was smart about it, and I just was like, you know what, I want to go home. And so I just stayed sober long enough until I could go home. And then, yes, I just I went home and did it. I just wanted to get back to my old life of, like, smoking weed, kind of taking some pills, like doing whatever I wanted.
WATT: Sitting next to Nick on AOL, Rob Reiner, who directed that movie, sounds like so many parents of addicts.
ROB REINER, FILMMAKER: I felt at a loss. So I would do anything that, as we say in the film, anybody with a desk and a diploma, I would listen to them. And their whole idea of tough love and you have to be a certain way, and I -- it's not my nature. You know, at the end of the day, I know my child better than an expert does, and I probably should have trusted my own instinct.
WATT: Nick is the middle child. Older brother Jake and younger sister Romy, both actors and writers. Romy once described nick as her best friend. A source familiar with the incident says she was the one who found her parents Sunday afternoon.
So apparently Rob and Nick Reiner had a bit of an argument Saturday night at a party hosted by Conan O'Brien. I've spoken to somebody who was at that party who said that she noticed Nick Reiner standing alone around the fire pit outside, smoking a cigarette, and he stood out because he was scruffily dressed, wearing a cap, a hoodie, jeans. She assumed he must be some kind of, you know, young comedian that she just never heard of.
Now, this woman says that she saw him later inside the house and they locked eyes. He was walking along. She says no emotion on his face, just a blank. Now, the police today would not confirm the time of death. So we know that party was on Saturday night. There was an argument and the 911 call came in 3:40 p.m. Sunday afternoon. So sometime between then is when the murders took place.
Nick Watt, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MICHAELSON: Nick, thank you. A group of Rob and Michelle's close friends, including Billy Crystal, Larry David, Martin Short, have just released a statement to the Associated Press. It reads in part, "Strong and determined, Michelle and Rob Reiner devoted a great deal of their lives for the betterment of our fellow citizens. They were a special force together, dynamic, unselfish and inspiring. We were their friends and we will miss them forever."
Other news, in a post just posted on Truth Social, Donald Trump has ordered a, quote, "total and complete blockade of oil tankers to and from Venezuela." He's referring to the blockade in all capital letters on that post, which is the latest escalation from the U.S. president as he puts pressure on Venezuelan leader Nicolas Maduro. [00:15:07]
President Trump also made reference to the size of the military fleet surrounding Venezuela, saying that the U.S. had positioned, quote, "the largest armada ever assembled in the history of South America around that country."
The Pentagon will not release the full video of a controversial military strike on alleged drug boat, according to Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth.
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PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: In keeping with longstanding Department of War policy, Department of Defense policy, of course, we're not going to release a top secret full, unedited video of that to the general public.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: The Trump administration publicly released a clip of the initial strike, but it's the unseen follow-up strike that sparked a debate over the legality of the administration's campaign in the Caribbean. Lawmakers from both parties have supported the release of the full video. Now Democrats are expressing their frustration following a briefing on the matter with Trump administration officials.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): This is the -- one of the least professional classified briefings I have ever sat in on, with the least amount of legal and intelligence justification for what is happening.
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): This briefing left me with more questions than answers.
SEN. MARK WARNER (D-VA): I think they're trying to run out the clock.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): It was really I thought disappointing, disappointing presentation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: Of course, President Trump initially said that he would support releasing that video until he changed his mind.
The White House chief of staff getting candid in a way we have never seen before in a series of bombshell interviews with "Vanity Fair." What Susie Wiles had to say about President Trump, Elon Musk and more, just ahead. Plus, the first funerals for Australia's worst mass shooting in decades. Details on the government's response and what we know about the surviving suspect.
We take you to Australia when we come back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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MICHAELSON: Live images from Sydney, Australia, where it is Wednesday afternoon, 4:20 in the afternoon. You see all those flowers there. The first funerals now underway for some of the 15 victims of the Bondi Beach terror attack. 21 others still hospitalized right now. Meanwhile, the Australian State Parliament of New South Wales plans to reconvene next week to discuss urgent legislation when it comes to gun control.
CNN's Will Ripley is in Bondi Beach.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): New dash cam video reveals the first minutes of the Bondi Beach massacre and two bystanders bravely trying to stop the attack. A husband and wife confront the older gunman, the father, Sajid Akram, leaving his car, rifle in hand.
Watch closely, the man in the purple shirt drags the attacker to the ground, wrestles for control, rips the gun out of his hands, swinging it almost like a bat. The gunman takes another rifle from his car, opening fire on the man and woman. Australian media is identifying them as possibly the first two victims of Sunday's attack.
The video also reveals a crucial piece of evidence. Look at the windshield. You see that black flag bearing what appears to be the logo of the Islamic State?
ANTHONY ALBANESE, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: It would appear that there is evidence that this was inspired by a terrorist organization, by ISIS.
RIPLEY (voice-over): Investigators are now looking beyond Australia. Police say the shooters recently traveled to the southern Philippines, a region long plagued by ISIS inspired violence. Philippine officials say the pair arrived on November 1st for military-style training, leaving nearly four weeks later. Returning to Australia just over two weeks before opening fire on Bondi Beach.
More than 24 hours after the shooting, Bondi Beach remained an active crime scene. You have police tape blocking off the whole area. There's this outdoor cinema where people basically drop their stuff and ran. The whole area kind of feels eerily frozen in time.
NAVEED AKRAM, BONDI BEACH ATTACK SUSPECT: This will come for you on the day of judgment.
RIPLEY (voice-over): Video is also emerging of the gunman, the son, Naveed Akram.
AKRAM: Allah will reward you for whatever action you do in his cause. Inshallah, this will save you on the day of judgment. RIPLEY (voice-over): A Sydney based Islamic street preaching group
confirms Akram appeared in a handful of videos in 2019, handing out pamphlets during public outreach. The group says Akram was just 17 at the time. They insist they've had no contact with him since. In a statement, the group says it's horrified by the attack and appalled by the actions of both father and son.
LACHIE, SUSPECT'S FORMER COWORKER: You're allowed to have strong views, but to go and do that, like, it's just wrong.
RIPLEY (voice-over): Lachie told CNN affiliate 9 News he's a former coworker of the younger shooter he calls Nav. He says Nav quit his bricklaying job about a month ago and often talked about his love of hunting.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It looked like he could handle a gun.
LACHIE: Yes, yes, well, he had, like, we used to talk about going shooting down at Crookwell and he'd say -- he actually said to me once, I said, oh, we should go for a shot down there one day. And he goes, oh, I don't know if that'd be good for you. And I thought, well, OK, that's a bit weird. But, yes, he was a bit of a weird cat.
RIPLEY (voice-over): Will Ripley, CNN, Bondi Beach, Australia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MICHAELSON: The number of countries facing travel restrictions in the U.S. is growing significantly after President Trump signed a proclamation expanding the list of countries with full or partial entry bans. Nationals from seven new countries were added to the full travel ban list, including Laos, Sierra Leone and Syria. 15 additional countries, including Angola, Tanzania and Malawi, now face partial restrictions on travel to the U.S.
The White House says the 39 listed countries demonstrate severe deficiencies in screening, vetting and information sharing.
[00:25:03]
President Trump is standing by White House chief of staff Susie Wiles after her explosive comments in an interview with "Vanity Fair." Wiles told the magazine that President Trump has a, quote, "alcoholic's personality" and operates with a view that there's nothing he can't do. The president responded, telling the "New York Post," "I didn't drink alcohol, but I've often said that if I did, I'd have a very good chance of being an alcoholic. It's a very possessive personality."
We know his brother was an alcoholic. Wiles suggested that Trump is not necessarily out for revenge against his perceived political enemies, but she admitted in some cases it may look like retribution. There may be an element of that from time to time. Wiles also called Elon Musk an allowed -- avowed ketamine user who slept in a sleeping bag in the executive office building. White House press secretary says Wiles' comments were taken out of context.
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KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This was unfortunately another attempt at fake news by a reporter who was acting disingenuously and really did take the chief's words out of context. But I think most importantly, the bias of omission was ever present throughout this story. The reporter omitted all of the positive things that Susie and our team said about the president and the inner workings of the White House.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: Here's what Housing and Urban Development Secretary Scott Turner told me earlier tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TURNER: I know Susie Wiles. Susie Wiles is a true servant leader. Susie is always available. She cares about the American people. She cares about policies that advance the American people, that make America prosperous, that make the American people safe, and our homeland. She cares about not just the president's agenda, but she cares about moving forward the legislation and policies that make America the country that we're supposed to be.
I know her personally. I work with her on a weekly, daily basis. And so the nonsense that came out about her really is just that, it's just noise.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: So you can see more of my interview with the housing secretary in about 20 minutes. This is video of him earlier today in Baltimore. Why he thinks that faith-based organizations need more support from the federal government. That's coming up on THE STORY IS.
Other news now, though, U.S. unemployment hit a four-year high in November. Data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics showed the rate was 4.6 percent. For young people, the number was even worse. The unemployment rate for 16 to 24-year-olds rose to 10.6 percent, also a four-year high. Meantime, the economy added just 64,000 jobs last month. The labor market is on pace for its weakest year of job growth since 2020.
November jobs report also showed wages grew at the slowest pace in more than four years. Americans' average hourly earnings grew at an average rate of 3.5 percent over the past year. That's barely enough to keep up with the 3 percent inflation gain in consumer prices. The wedge between the two has narrowed significantly as inflation has accelerated, while the labor market has tightened.
The U.S. government is seeing the best and brightest talent in artificial intelligence, at least seeking it out. The new U.S. Tech Force launched on Monday, it aims to hire about 1,000 experts in A.I., software engineering and other tech fields to work in government agencies as part of a two-year program. It also plans to bring in some of Silicon Valley's top talent for mentoring. Task Force says the goal is to speed up the implementation of A.I. to solve the government's most critical technological challenges.
Vice President J.D. Vance delivers an upbeat assessment of the U.S. economy despite some of that government data we just heard. Our panel will debate that and more. Brian Tyler Cohen on the left, Will O'Neill on the right. They're standing by live. You're not going to want to miss this next right here on THE STORY IS.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Trump last week gave his economy a grade of A plus plus plus plus.
[00:33:33]
What grade would you give the economy today?
J.D. VANCE, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: A plus plus plus.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes! Yes! Yes!
VANCE: Look, I -- I --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: USA! USA! USA!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: USA! USA! USA!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: USA! USA! USA!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN ANCHOR: Vice President J.D. Vance in Pennsylvania with a rosy assessment of the U.S. economy, despite unemployment hitting a four-year high.
Our political panel here to discuss that and more. Brian Tyler Cohen on the left, host of the "No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen" podcast and one of the most followed YouTube pages in the progressive space online. Hundreds of millions of views a month.
Will O'Neill is the chairman of the Republican Party of Orange County, California, and the former mayor of Newport Beach, which is about as Trumpy a country as you can get in California. Lots of MAGA flags there.
Welcome to you both. Will, welcome to the show for the first time.
WILL O'NEILL, CHAIRMAN, REPUBLICAN PARTY OF ORANGE COUNTY: Thank you, Elex.
MICHAELSON: Brian, I'll start with you. Do you agree with J.D. Vance's assessment of the economy?
BRIAN TYLER COHEN, HOST, "NO LIE WITH BRIAN TYLER COHEN": No. And I think most people would also not agree with J.D. Vance's assessment of the economy. First of all, it would be bad enough watching the economic reality of
-- of the, you know, this country right now, given -- given the fact that, in the last two months, we have seen a net loss of 41,000 jobs; given the fact that we've seen the unemployment rate surge to 4.6 percent; given the fact that inflation has continued to rise ever since March. That would be bad enough.
But the fact that this administration ran on lowering costs, and yet all they've done is exacerbate costs really is just them kind of adding fuel to the fire. It's them sticking the eye -- sticking their finger in the eye of the American people.
[00:35:05]
If anybody should know about the reality, the potency of this issue of high costs and how it impacts Americans, it should be J.D. Vance and Donald Trump. And yet now, they're just playing dumb, pretending that they have no idea what's going on. And, you know, it's -- it's -- it shows nothing but disdain for their own voters.
MICHAELSON: Will, your thoughts?
O'NEILL: Oh, I think the vice president is right, because when you look back -- I know you talked about two months. If you go back three months, we actually have a substantially higher net gain in jobs in this country.
Because last month, you saw a substantial number of federal employees take the buyout and go out. So, the private sector is actually doing fairly well.
The real problem on the private-sector jobs is actually California. California has the highest unemployment rate in the in this -- in the country right now at 5.6 percent, a full percentage higher; 1.1 million Californians right now are out of work. That's what's dragging down the economy in this 0-- California, in the United States.
Now, I will say, though, J.D. Vance, the vice president, did go out of his way to make sure he made the distinction between the economy and affordability.
In that same speech, he made the comment that, yes, we need to be working on affordability. And I agree. I think that the president and the vice president certainly should know that. They do know that. And what they need to be working on is, obviously, the difference between the economy and affordability, and they are going to be laser-focused on that.
MICHAELSON: I mean, do they deserve some of the blame on the affordability front?
O'NEILL: Oh, I think that if you look at where affordability is the real problem, I will come right back to California.
California has the highest grocery costs in America right now. You have the highest gas in America. Thirty-eight states have gasoline under $3 a gallon right now. Of course, California is not one of them. Right now, it's $4.36, thanks entirely due to leftist policy here in California.
MICHAELSON: You think Governor Newsom is to blame for the national picture?
COHEN: I think nationally, across the country, we're seeing prices -- prices rise. We're seeing clothing get more expensive. We're seeing food get more expensive. We're seeing energy, electricity. Energy is up 14 percent, 13 percent nationwide.
This is not something that's just focused on California, even though it would be convenient to just point to the communist, Marxist people's republic of California.
The reality is that Americans across the country --
MICHAELSON: Your words, not his.
COHEN: Americans across the country are feeling high prices right now.
And frankly, you don't have to take my word for it. The fact that Democrats are overperforming by 14, 15, 16, 17 points in even deep-red districts across the country shows the deep discontent that everybody has with -- with the policies that this administration is dumping (ph) in.
MICHAELSON: Is that worrying for you as the chairman of the party, when you see the Democrats performing well in election after election this year?
O'NEILL: Absolutely. Because coming back around, there is a massive difference between the economy and affordability, and affordability is a massive problem nationwide. I concede that completely.
My point on California is that California is the absolute worst. So, when we are talking about who do we trust more with affordability? The last four years we had the Inflation Reduction Act, which of course, increased inflation quite a bit.
And the four years under President Biden saw one of the highest spikes in energy prices ever.
We are, though, a year into the president's term, and he's not going to be able to blame President Biden much longer.
MICHAELSON: Are the tariffs making life more affordable for the average person?
O'NEILL: No, I don't think so.
COHEN: Well, I think -- I mean, the reality is prices are going up. If this was -- if this had something to do with President Biden, can you explain why Donald Trump took office with a 4 percent inflation rate and now the inflation -- a 4 percent unemployment rate, and now the unemployment rate is 4.6 percent? O'NEILL: No, I can explain that California is dragging us down
nationally at 5.6 with 1.1 million people.
COHEN: Or energy -- or energy prices going up 11, 12, 13 percent nationwide?
O'NEILL: Actually, yes they were. So, if you look at -- in particular, if you looked at, again, coming back to California, which again sets the market for a lot of this, California has actually seen the highest spike in energy costs in the entire country. We now stand as the highest gas tax gas price. We also stand at the second highest electricity price. This is the real problem.
Who are you going to look to -- to fix these problems? The people who caused them? No, of course not.
COHEN: So, if nobody else is feeling the pinch of high prices, why in Tennessee's 7th Congressional District are Republicans so unhappy to the point where they would swing to -- to take an R plus 22 seat and swing it to within nine points?
I mean, across the country, we're seeing the impacts of these tariffs on American consumers. And it's, again, showing up at the ballot box. It's showing up in terms of how people are rating this administration. There's a 36 percent approval rating for this president, which is the lowest in both of his terms.
That doesn't just happen in a vacuum. It happens as the result of -- of -- of the fact that he can't deliver on his own agenda.
O'NEILL: Oh, he's delivering on a lot of his agenda. When you look at the border security issue in particular, that was the No. 1 issue for most people going into this last election cycle.
Border crossings are down 92 percent. The only the problem is they've been so successful that it stopped being a political issue in most voters' minds. And so, they're -- a lot of people are turning to affordability.
And I agree, if the president and vice president don't get straight focused on that issue, that is going to be a real problem for -- for Republicans.
MICHAELSON: So, tomorrow night, he's going to give a primetime address to the country, to talk about what he sees as his accomplishments. What do you want to hear from him?
[00:40:07]
O'NEILL: Well, so, predicting what President Trump is going to say is sort of like going out to Newport Beach and guessing what -- many grains of sand there are out there.
So, I would really like to, obviously, hear him talk about accomplishments on the economy, on jobs, on affordability. I'd like to hear him talk about border security and public safety. These are issues that are top of mind.
MICHAELSON: And not Rob Reiner?
O'NEILL: Well, I would really hope not, actually.
MICHAELSON: Yes, yes.
O'NEILL: But I would also really hope that he'd be talking about Venezuela, given the -- the post he just put out. I'd like to understand that better.
MICHAELSON: What do you expect to hear from President Trump tomorrow?
COHEN: I think this man is going to fellate himself to the ends of the earth --
MICHAELSON: OK. All right.
COHEN: -- about all of these accomplishments that he's going to will into existence, because he has to sell himself to compensate for the fact that, when it comes to actual accomplishments, he's -- he's far underperforming. And again, his approval rating is a testament to that.
MICHAELSON: Speaking of California, which you've brought up a time or two, Governor Newsom in the news. Axios put out a report over the weekend suggesting that he is the frontrunner.
The other folks who want to run for president see him as the frontrunner, and they're now trying to knock him off by already putting out opposition research, like, three years early about him. What do you -- what do you make of that push?
O'NEILL: Well, I was mayor of a city in California twice under the Newsom administration. And to the extent that his potential future opponents need something to understand about Gavin Newsom, let me just tell you, and use an analogy that we really understand here in California.
Electing Gavin Newsom to fix affordability is like handing the fire hose to the arsonist. We already know who caused this problem. We don't need to ask them to fix it. This is -- if affordability really is the issue going into 2028, Gavin Newsom is the worst possible candidate.
COHEN: Well, I can think of one person who's worse. And the fact is that we are living under a Trump administration that is creating the circumstances that -- that usher in the least amount of affordability that we have seen.
I mean, the reality is, again, that these people spent four years focused on -- on Joe Biden's -- Joe Biden's economy. And frankly, what the Trump administration would give to have even a single month that looked like Joe Biden's economy.
I mean, again, in the last seven months combined, it -- there are roughly as many jobs that were added in Joe Biden's worst month.
The worst month Joe Biden ever had, 85,000 jobs added. In the last seven months, there's been roughly 110,000 jobs added.
So again, for a president who beats his chest as the jobs, jobs, jobs president, he really doesn't have much to show for it.
MICHAELSON: Last point.
O'NEILL: Yes, but the Axios -- the Axios article was focused on the Democrats versus Democrats issue, not the Republicans versus the potential for Gavin Newsom.
The real question here is what are Democrats going to say about Gavin Newsom? And his track record is horrific. So, he's got to make it through a primary first. And again, if affordability is that, he is that arsonist.
MICHAELSON: We'll see with the issues. We've got a long ways to go before that. We don't even know who's going to run, but we don't even know for sure that he's going to run. But it certainly seems like he is.
Will O'Neill, Brian Tyler Cohen, thanks so much for being here.
COHEN: Thanks for having us.
MICHAELSON: Appreciate it. Good conversation.
O'NEILL: Thank you.
MICHAELSON: We'll be right back with more right here on THE STORY IS.
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[00:47:54]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT TURNER, U.S. SECRETARY OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT: This is a model that should be replicated and multiplied and duplicated all around our country. Because real results are happening here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: This is exclusive video provided to CNN of Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Scott Turner, touring the Helping Up Mission in Baltimore, Maryland.
He says the faith-based organization should be a national model.
Right now, the department estimates that there are 770,000 Americans experiencing homelessness. They believe about 51 percent have substance abuse issues and around 50 percent suffer from mental health conditions.
Secretary Turner joins us now from CNN in Washington for a STORY IS exclusive. Mr. Secretary, welcome to the show for the first time.
TURNER: Great. Thank you so much, Elex. I'm so happy to be with you.
MICHAELSON: So, what did you learn on the ground in Baltimore?
TURNER: Well, thank you. And I appreciate you showing that clip.
You know, the -- the mission that I visited today, they have been doing a tremendous job in serving our homeless neighbors in the greater Baltimore area. Men, women and children.
And what I saw was a great model. It's a faith-based ministry there. It's a great model of people coming together, helping people to get off the streets, treating them for mental illness, drug addiction. There's great accountability. There's great transparency. They have work skills training there, and then they help them to live a life of self-independence.
It's about a year program. And, you know, they encourage everyone, when you come in, to compit [SIC] -- compete [SIC] to a year; be committed to getting the treatment, getting transformed and getting back on your feet.
And you know, we went out, really, to the streets. And they say, hey, we're going to meet people where we are. And we were able to hand out food, coffee and soup.
And I had an opportunity to talk to people, really, who were on the streets. And two individuals who came to get food actually went with the mission to go to the building to start their road of recovery. So, I was very encouraged today.
MICHAELSON: You know, we talked with you when you were out here at the Dream Center in L.A., which is another faith-based organization that has dealt with the homelessness issue.
[00:50:06]
And I know as secretary, you've sort of lessened the regulation on faith-based organizations -- you yourself are a pastor -- to help get more funding toward them, to deal with an issue like homelessness.
Why is that important to you? And what do you say to critics who say, you know, that sort of violates the separation of church and state?
TURNER: Well, thank you for asking that.
You know, there's no violation here. And the purpose is this. Many, many years before the government was taking care of our homeless neighbors, faith-based organizations, community organizations, who have their hand to the plow and their feet on the ground, have been serving homeless men and women and children for decades. And really, generations.
Historically in the federal government, in particular at HUD, faith- based organizations have not been able to come to the table when it pertains to applying for grants and competing for grants to serve our homeless neighbors.
And so, if you have results-oriented institutions, faith-based organizations, community organizations that are actually doing the work on the ground, we need to open up the table, open up the opportunity for them to come in to compete for these grants. Because they have real results in helping homeless men and women to be transformed, to be healed, and to be -- to live a life of self- sustainability.
And so, it is my goal and, in our team at HUD, it is our goal to help faith-based organizations to have an opportunity to come to the table to compete for these grants, to continue the great service that they do.
MICHAELSON: There are a lot of community organizations around the country that are concerned about changes that you've made when it comes to what's called the continuum of care, which is essentially funding a lot of these permanent housing programs. A dramatic cut in funding.
You say that the programs aren't working. Twenty-one states, 11 local governments and nonprofits that are suing you, though, that say that it is going to cut, and it is going to result in more people being homeless on the streets.
Congresswoman Maxine Waters was recently on our show. Here's what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MAXINE WATERS (D-CA): Trump really is about cutting. He's about destroying what the Democrats and what we have put together over years in order to deal with many of these problems.
But the problem now is not so much that the continuum of care doesn't work. We need to have more affordable housing, period.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: Your response to the Democratic congresswoman from Los Angeles?
TURNER: Well, first, I would say this. You know, the shame is that people want to take this to litigation to hinder progress.
We were ready to issue this NOFO back in September. What with the government shut down and the irresponsibility of that shutdown, we were not able to.
But the first day when the government opened back up, we issued this new continuum of care NOFO. So, it's not about being irresponsible on -- on HUD's part.
We don't want more people on the streets. This is not a cut. This is an increase. Litigation is not the answer. The answer is to run a new play, to do things that are different. If we continue -- to Congresswoman Maxine Waters' point, we're not
about cutting. We're not about putting people on the streets. We actually care about the people that we're supposed to be serving. That's why we have to change the way that we do homelessness in our country and really treat people, get them transformed, healed, and back to a life of self-sustainability.
We don't want a homeless industrial complex. This is not a continuing slush fund as it has been during the Biden administration. Those days are over.
We are very intentional about bringing transformation, reforming the way we look at homelessness, getting people treated. And you know what? The -- make room for those who are on the streets that need to be treated and get people out to live a life of independence.
MICHAELSON: We just end with something fun on this show. We -- this is a rapid-fire, first thing that comes to mind. We like to talk to people in both parties to get to know them a little bit.
It is Christmas season. We know you're a pastor, so favorites that come to mind. What is your all-time favorite Christmas song?
TURNER: "Silent Night."
MICHAELSON: Favorite Christmas food?
TURNER: Turkey and dressing.
MICHAELSON: Best Christmas tradition in your house?
TURNER: Reading the story of Jesus's birth on Christmas day.
MICHAELSON: And lastly, this isn't really Christmas related, although now we have NFL on Christmas. Since you are the cabinet member who was in the NFL, who's your Super Bowl pick?
TURNER: You know, I think the San Diego -- the Los Angeles Chargers are tough. The Denver Broncos are tough. Green Bay is tough. You know I think it's a -- it's a toss-up right now. But there are some teams that are playing very, very well at the right time.
MICHAELSON: As are the Los Angeles Rams. Although our fans in San Diego, I think, will appreciate the fact that you tried to call them the San Diego Chargers. There's a lot of people there who still think of them that way.
[00:55:03]
TURNER: Yes.
MICHAELSON: Secretary Turner, thank you so much for making time for us. Really appreciate the conversation.
TURNER: OK. Thank you.
MICHAELSON: Happy holidays to you and your family. We'll be back with more of THE STORY IS right after this.
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MICHAELSON: Before we wrap up this hour, we've got to show some animals, right? Because Ron Burgundy says we always have to have animals in the show.
Check out the animals at the London Zoo, getting into the holiday spirit. And it seems like Santa arrived early there. Monkeys were treated to stockings garnished with sweet corn.
