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The Story Is with Elex Michaelson

Suspect in Brown University, MIT Shootings Found Dead; House Democrats Share New Photos from Sex Offender's Estate; What is GOP's Healthcare Plan? Aired 12-1a ET

Aired December 19, 2025 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

[00:00:12]

ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to a special edition of THE STORY IS. I'm Elex Michaelson, live in Los Angeles. We begin with breaking news in the Brown University mass shooting.

Police say the suspect is dead, taking his own life in a storage unit in Salem, New Hampshire. Law enforcement swarmed that facility late Thursday night after someone came forward with information.

Investigators found an abandoned car with a license plate matching the one from a vehicle possibly used by that Brown University suspect.

Here's Providence Police Chief Oscar Perez.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF OSCAR PEREZ, PROVIDENCE POLICE: An individual was identified as Claudio Neves Valente. Date of birth, and he was a 48-year-old man. He was a Brown student. He was a Portuguese national and his last known address was in Miami, Florida. And I will tell you that he took his own life tonight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: Police say they believe that Claudia [SIC] -- Claudio Valente acted alone in the shooting at Brown University, which killed two and wounded nine others. They say he was found with a satchel, two firearms, and evidence matching the crime scene.

And there's a big twist. U.S. attorney in Boston says Valente also shot and killed an MIT professor at his home in Brookline, Massachusetts, on Monday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEAH B. FOLEY, U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE DISTRICT OF MASSACHUSETTS: Previously, he attended the same academic program as the MIT professor Nuno Loureiro in Portugal between 1995 and 2000.

(END VIDEO CLIP) MICHAELSON: We have team coverage tonight, but let's start things off

with CNN's Danny Freeman, live in Salem, New Hampshire, where that suspect was found dead, Danny.

Danny, do we have any idea how long he was there?

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, that's a good question, Elex. That's one of the still remaining questions.

And actually, an interview with our own Brian Todd, the chief of police in Providence said that that's one of the things they're going to determine, basically. How long was he inside of that storage unit with that self-inflicted gunshot wound?

But, Elex, I'll just tell you, I mean, the entirety of New England has been watching, frankly, both of these stories: the manhunt for the suspect in the Brown University shooting and the manhunt for the suspect in the killing of the MIT professor.

And it's amazing that 80 miles North of Brown University, here in Salem, New Hampshire, of all places, this really nightmare for New England has finally come to an end.

This whole area, I should tell you, the neighborhood came out to watch. This was a swarm of media here in front of the storage facility. Now it's quieted down. We actually just saw a tow company take away a car wrapped in a silver sort of tarp away from here. Presumably, that is the car that led investigators to this spot. And that car will be processed.

So, it's in this storage facility behind me, Elex, that FBI investigators, local police have been in and out of all throughout the afternoon and evening, processing the scene in there.

Investigators said that they found their suspect inside of his own storage unit with that self-inflicted gunshot wound. They also found guns with him. And according to the attorney general -- general of Rhode Island, they found a satchel, that mask, and many other things that made it clear that this was indeed the suspect, then the person of interest that they had been looking for for all of these days.

The car, I should note, that was key in finding this area, because the car was abandoned, as you noted. It had different license plates, but they were still able to track it here.

But then also, they were able to connect the dots, because the suspect himself had a storage unit in this particular storage facility. That was part of the reason why they were able to connect the dots here.

So, I can tell you that investigators have been out here all night. Once they finally got a search warrant to get into that storage unit and found the grisly scene, you can expect they're going to continue to be processing this entire area through the evening just to really unpack any evidence as to maybe what may have caused this man, the suspect, to allegedly go on this shooting spree, not only at Brown, but also kill that MIT professor -- Elex. MICHAELSON: And why did they know to look at that particular storage

unit? How did they get there?

FREEMAN: So, again, there are really two elements here. First was that abandoned car. Basically, a license plate reader tripped when this particular car was in the area. So, police started to canvass the area.

And they connected that with the realization that, once they had the name of the suspect, he actually had a storage unit that he actually rented back in November in this particular spot.

They then found the car abandoned here. And then, it took a little while. There was a lot of police presence, as I said, all throughout the afternoon as they waited officially for a search warrant to actually gain access to that specific storage unit. Once they did that, then they were able to find the scene.

[00:05:03]

And, Elex, I'll tell you, we were out here a little bit before 9 p.m. when the whole area was really closed off, and then a little bit after 9 p.m. when it felt like a cavalry of FBI investigators arrived. They brought in big trucks here, as well.

And that's when shortly thereafter, we got the press conference announcing the official news that the suspect was found dead here behind us.

MICHAELSON: And it was interesting watching their body language. At first, it seemed like there was a lot more urgency. And then later on, you could see that there was a little bit more standing around, which gave you the indication maybe he is dead in that storage facility behind you.

Danny Freeman, thank you for your reporting. We will get back to you throughout the next couple of hours here on CNN.

But joining me now, CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller; also, CNN's senior national security analyst, Juliette Kayyem. She's a former assistant secretary at the Department of Homeland Security.

John, let's start with you. As somebody who's led so many investigations yourself, what's your big takeaway from a night where we've gotten so much news?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, it's just an incredible confluence of events, where you see all of this come together after being, you know, looked at so hard by so many for a number of days, how it all snapped together within a matter of hours.

And, you know, there's -- there's three key pieces to this. And the police chief's interview with Brian Todd helps me untangle how those pieces are actually aligned. But, you know, it begins with a janitor at Brown University, who

encounters a person in -- in a bathroom and finds him suspicious. And -- and then, you know, gets a good description of him.

That puts police onto the idea of let's find this person in the video canvas.

What then happens is another individual posts on Reddit that he saw somebody that fit that description who seemed to be connected to a car, that he triggered the key fob. But then when he saw that this guy had noticed him, he walked the other way.

And that this person confronted him and said, What are you doing here? Why are you walking this way? Changing direction, you know, why aren't you going towards your car?

This witness also looked inside the car and saw a satchel on the ground and other things. So, when he posted that on Reddit, police actually looked at that video, tried to find the moment he was describing, and sees that the suspect has an encounter with an individual on the street. They put out a picture of that individual and say, we want to know who this person who has this encounter is, because you might have talked to the suspect.

Well, it turns out it is the Reddit poster. And he brought the information that led to, OK, so there's this Nissan Sentra. You know, they interviewed him about that. They interviewed him about what this suspect said to him.

They then used their camera system and license plate readers to find what appeared to be that car. It matched yet another report they had from a faculty member who said they'd seen a car like that traveling very slowly on the day of the shooting.

So, all of this occurs before the actual shooting. But after the shooting, you know, these people start to come forward, and these dots get connected.

Once they run the plate of that car, it turns out to be a rental, and they get the rental agreement, and they know they're looking for Valente. Then the hunt is on.

And that went from, you know, late last night until late tonight where it ended, as we reported.

MICHAELSON: Juliette, what stands out to you about all this?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, obviously, the police chief was clear that he didn't know yet is just the motive, the connectivity.

And I'm here in New England. And when we -- and just down the street was the -- was the murder of the MIT professor. There was sort of speculation that they were related.

It seemed so unreal, because when you get these kinds of cases with a certain suspect, they have a certain M.O., right? They're going to do something the same way, whether it's -- you think far back like a Unabomber. You're going to do anonymous boxes to people who are on your hit list.

In this case, these were so different. We really never see that as sort of typical -- unfortunately, typical -- school shooting or university shooting. And then essentially, you know, sort of cold- blooded murder at his home.

It now appears, at least by what is being said publicly, that Valente had a sort of a grievance list. And that grievance list begins with -- with either the university that he couldn't finish in many decades ago. And possibly this interaction or maybe jealousy of someone he had been in school with in the same program about engineering, also in Portugal.

One can't finish college. The other becomes a presidentially certificated, you know, top scholar in his field.

[00:10:06]

It is possible that these grudges he's held onto for a long time or something triggers it more recently. But as John was saying, you know, it appears that there's some casing or some activity as early as November of this year, meaning that he's been holding onto this for some period of time.

That would be how you put the pieces together for motive, even if there's not a case. We don't know if there might be others who might have known about this, or might be arrested, or at least, you know, investigated.

But that is the connectivity has almost -- is him. I mean, it's basically -- it's -- right now, it's a grievance list.

MICHAELSON: John, obviously the suspect is dead. So, there's not going to be a prosecution and all the investigation that goes with that.

What's next for this investigation, in terms of figuring out the motive, in terms of lessons learned?

MILLER: Well, first, they've got to figure out the physical evidence. So, that means taking the guns that were found in the car, running through through ATF's NIBIN system and others to match the shell casings and then match the ballistics through things fired through the gun.

It means, you know, DNA that they recovered on spent shell casings and other items at the scene need to be matched to the suspect when they extract DNA from him.

You know, they need to close the loop on -- they've got a great circumstantial case here, but here is the physical, scientific evidence.

As far as the motive, it's exactly what Juliette just said, which is they've got to kind of peel back the layers and do that archeological dig through his life. And then look at communications, emails, whatever is in his electronics to see if -- if they can find a story that emerges.

Because it really does appear that, for all of this casing and advance, all of this walking around, all of this planning, switching sim cards, renting cars, switching license plates, that he didn't come here and this didn't occur to him. He flew up here on what appears to be a mission. He's an organized offender who anticipated a lot of what he would need in terms of weapons, and ways to thwart law enforcement, and ways to hide from video cameras.

And that one was an attack against an institution, Brown University, and against the human beings he could attack there to hurt that institution. The other was an attack against an individual person.

And you know, as was just stated, they need to figure out what was in his head about those two places or about that place and about that person. What was his story of failure that he blamed on a school and a professor from -- from another school that was once a student with him?

MICHAELSON: Yes. Juliette, we've got some -- some breaking news from Washington. I want to put up on the screen a post on X from the secretary of homeland security, Kristi Noem, who says that the Brown University shooter entered the U.S. "through the diversity lottery immigrant visa program." In 2017, was granted a green card. "This heinous individual should never have been allowed in our country. In 2017, President Trump fought to end this program, following the devastating New York City truck ramming by an ISIS terrorist who entered under the DV1 program and murdered eight people. At President Trump's direction. I am immediately directing to pause the DV1 program to ensure no more Americans are harmed by this disastrous program."

What do you make of that and what that will mean going forward?

KAYYEM: We'll have to -- to see what they mean. As we know, I guess I just -- I just want to say we don't know enough right now about when his status was regularized, because the dates actually appear to be during the first Trump administration.

And why they are coming out so quickly, you know, an hour after the press conference, to say that a group of people, who are on -- on this visa status are all now going to be denied it because of someone who was not on this visa status. He was a -- he was a -- he was here for -- he was lawfully here as a -- as a permanent resident. Why they should all be harmed.

I want to be super careful here, because we don't know enough about -- about Valente's immigration status in terms of when and exactly where he got the immigration status.

But I do want to say this kind of reaction is like apples and oranges, right? I mean, it really is. It is -- it is the Trump administration going after immigrants rather than whatever, you know -- rather than looking at the sort of longer issues of what happened here, protection for our students, guns and access to guns, all of those issues that are also at play.

This is no one -- no one I know left that press conference saying this is an immigration issue. But as we know that the Trump administration will use many of these instances as a way to sort of promote their -- their sort of, you know, anti-immigrant stance.

[00:15:13]

And I just -- I think it's just premature at this stage, especially because the dating appears right now to put his lawful status, being allowed in the United States, under the first Trump administration.

If they have evidence that that didn't happen, it would be -- it would be good for them to show it. But that -- that's the dating we have right now.

MICHAELSON: It'll be interesting to see what Karoline Leavitt and President Trump say about this tomorrow.

John Miller, Juliette Kayyem, thank you for joining us tonight. We really appreciate it.

KAYYEM: Thanks.

MILLER: Thank you.

MICHAELSON: Up next, I'll speak live to a Brown University student to get reaction to our breaking news. The manhunt for the alleged Brown University shooter coming to an end.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:20:21]

MICHAELSON: Back to our breaking news in the Brown University shooting. Authorities say the suspect found dead, ending a six-day manhunt.

They say Claudio Valente took his own life at a storage facility in Salem, New Hampshire. He was found with a satchel, two firearms, and evidence watching the crime scene.

Officials also say Valente killed an MIT professor in Massachusetts days after the Brown University shooting.

The 48-year-old Portuguese national was a former student at Brown, but it's still not clear why he may have targeted the university. The Providence mayor says six of the victims are now in stable condition.

Joining me now, live from Atlanta, is Brown University student Connie Erdozain.

Connie, thanks so much for being with us. Does the suspect being found dead give you and your fellow classmates any sense of closure?

CONNIE ERDOZAIN, BROWN UNIVERSITY STUDENT: Hi. Thank you so much for having me here tonight.

I think, to some extent, it definitely does give us all some closure, particularly for students who are still on campus right now. I think it's good to know that they are safe. And the shooter is no longer at large.

But at the same time, I am kind of concerned, given that the suspect is now deceased and his identity being a non-citizen in the U.S. I'm concerned that many of the speculations that will kind of come out of this will be misconstrued, given like the present anti-immigrant sentiments that are, you know, very prevalent in media in the U.S. right now.

I'm concerned that this will do more harm than good to particularly international students at Brown right now. But also, just the immigrant community in the U.S. at large.

MICHAELSON: We had a very lengthy press conference. In fact, two different press conferences tonight. What was your reaction when watching?

ERDOZAIN: Well, I watched the -- the initial press conference. And while I'm so grateful, as I bet many of -- many people in the Brown community are for, you know, the efforts that have gone into the investigation, I'm also a little bit dissatisfied with the, you know, the confidence, around our safety after this tragedy -- tragedy.

The governor referred to the shooting, as you know, these things happen and that, you know, our safety was like, kind of, you know, in good hands in Rhode Island.

And I don't think that that's necessarily something that the Brown community needs to hear right now. Or at least not the full picture of what's happening.

Because I think people want preventative measures to be in place. People want action. And, given that the shooting was one of the first, if not the first school shootings in Rhode Island, I think we all just want to hear that the state is doing more to protect our security in the future and prevent such gun violence from arising.

MICHAELSON: I know you were in class with at least a few of the victims of this. I know you, yourself, had to shelter in place for eight hours. Can you describe what the shooting was like for you and what it's been like talking to your -- your fellow classmates over the last few days?

ERDOZAIN: I mean, so I was in the sciences library at the time, as were many other students, studying for their finals. And, given that it was so close to the engineering building, there were some people who had come in from the building. And even -- I know someone who saw someone who was injured.

So, it was a very terrifying experience for all of us. And to hear everybody's experiences as we were all just in the basement, you know, waiting to be evacuated and to hear any news. It was a very terrifying experience.

And now, you know, I can say for myself and many others in the Brown community, you know, just now, looking back, it's such a saddening experience and a tragedy that has occurred.

And I think that we all just kind of hope for more action to be in place. So, then, you know, these kind of tragedies can't continue, both in Rhode Island and across the U.S. at other schools and anywhere.

MICHAELSON: How are you processing this? And -- and do you want to go back to school? Are you ready for that? How do you feel about returning?

ERDOZAIN: I mean, I think I'm still like, you know, going through it, as most of my classmates are, too.

[00:25:03]

But honestly, I think that I kind of want to be surrounded by my peers and the Brown community. I just feel like, since now we're all separated, and we're all in our homes or, you know, no longer together, it feels kind of difficult to like, you know, continue, given everybody else around me, you know, has -- you know, has other things in their life.

And like, for other people, this is -- this was just a news story. But for me and, you know, the Brown community, like, this is our -- our life.

And so, I think for me, I'm -- I'm honestly looking forward to, you know, seeing my -- my peers again, so I can, you know, have people to talk about it with. And, you know, to recover with and together.

MICHAELSON: And to give a hug to, I would imagine, as well.

ERDOZAIN: Yes.

MICHAELSON: Yes. Connie, thank you so much for sharing. I'm so sorry that you had to go through this and join the growing club of American young people who have experienced a mass shooting at school. But we appreciate you sharing your perspective and -- and hope that you have a -- wish all your classmates the best.

ERDOZAIN: Thank you so much.

MICHAELSON: Thank you.

We continue to follow that breaking news this hour. That suspect in the Brown University shooting and the MIT shootings has been found dead. Who was he? What police are saying. We'll go to the scene next on THE STORY IS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:31:13] MICHAELSON: Quick recap of our top story. After days-long manhunt, the suspected gunman who killed two people at Brown University last weekend has been found dead.

Police say the body of Claudio Valente, a Portuguese national, here legally, was discovered in a storage unit in Salem, New Hampshire. The 48-year-old former Brown student had taken his own life.

Authorities say Valente also killed a professor at Massachusetts Institute of Technology on Monday.

CNN's Brian Todd is live in Providence, Rhode Island. He's in the middle of that press conference. He just spoke with the chief of police.

Brian, what have you learned? What did he tell you?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Elex, what we do not have, according to the chief, is a motive for either shooting, specifically.

I asked the chief specifically about that a few moments ago on camera, after the news conference had occurred, and the chief said, we just don't know that yet. We're going to be, of course, investigating that. So, that's a critical piece that they are looking at.

What we were told, though, by a law enforcement official telling CNN's Evan Perez and Holmes Lybrand that they do believe that he specifically targeted the MIT professor Nuno Loureiro.

We were also told during that news conference that both the suspect -- and again, identified as Claudio Manuel Neves Valente, 48 years old -- both the shooting suspect and that MIT professor, Nuno Loureiro, both attended the same college in Portugal at the same time in the 1990s.

Is there a definitive link that they knew each other? You would -- could probably assume that, since he went to his House, allegedly, and shot him and killed him.

But some -- some other information that we -- we know, that Claudio Valente was a graduate student at Brown from the fall of 2000 until the spring of 2001. From September of 2000 until, I think it was, they said May of 2001. That at that point he took a leave of absence, that he later completely withdrew from the university formally in 2003, the university president saying he never got a degree there.

Again, we've been trying to hint at motive here. Did he have any grievance with Brown? Did he have any particular -- just -- I asked if there were any discipline problems with him while he was at Brown, any particular disputes that he was involved with? The school president, Christina Paxson said, we don't know that; those are old records.

Another key part of this investigation, Elex, is that there was a person who they described as a person of interest a couple of days ago, but it's not a suspect. It was a person who came into close proximity with the shooting suspect on the day of the shooting, a couple of hours before the shooting, who noticed, according to officials, that this suspect was acting suspiciously. And he confronted him in the bathroom of Barus and Holly Building a couple of hours before the shooting.

According to the chief, who just told me a short time ago, he not only confronted him, he followed him around, and he chased him. And at one point, the suspect turned around and said, why are you harassing me? I don't know you from anyone. And then the two men walked away from each other.

But it was that person -- Pardon me -- It was that second person who had confronted him who then came forward about a day and a half ago and told police what he knew.

And according to Peter Neronha, the attorney general for Rhode Island, that this person, in Neronha's words, quote, "blew the case open."

He led them to the car that he was using. He led them to his clothes. He led them to photographs, everything. This person coming forward with information on this case, really, really helped them. This is the same person who had confronted him a couple of hours before the shooting.

So, Elex, that was a very dramatic break in the case. And that was one of the things that Peter Neronha, the attorney general, told me they didn't even have this guy's name until yesterday, shortly before this time yesterday.

[00:35:00]

So, everything really kind of unfolding in about a day and a half between yesterday afternoon and this evening -- Elex.

MICHAELSON: Yes. Pretty amazing. And they put out that video, and then he saw it and came forward. And that's what helped to solve the case.

CNN's Brian Todd, thank you for your tireless and excellent reporting on this all day and all night.

We'll have more on the Brown University shooting investigation, including how investigators pieced together information to identify and locate the suspect.

Our law enforcement analyst, retired FBI official Steve Moore, has some thoughts. He'll take us inside what really happened here and some stuff that they aren't telling us on camera. Steve Moore with us live, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:40:25]

MICHAELSON: Continue to follow breaking news: manhunt over for the suspect in the mass shooting at Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island.

Authorities say the suspect, 48-year-old Claudio Valente, was found dead after taking his own life in a storage unit in New Hampshire.

Brown's president says he was a former student at the Ivy League school who dropped out more than 20 years ago. Police say he avoided authorities during the days-long manhunt by changing his license plate on his rental car.

Rhode Island's attorney general says a person spoke to police with information that, quote, "blew this case right open."

Joining me now here in Los Angeles, CNN law enforcement contributor and retired FBI supervisory special agent Steve Moore.

Steve, welcome back to the show. You were here on our set --

STEVE MOORE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CONTRIBUTOR: Yes.

MICHAELSON: -- two nights ago, and at that point, you were basically arguing, it seems like they don't know what they're doing.

MOORE: No. And I think they had no evidence to go on. And, you know, right at that moment, probably, they were just starting to get the first bit of traction they had.

MICHAELSON: And is it possible that he was actually already dead then?

MOORE: By the timeline that I've seen, he was dead, and he had been dead for a while. So -- and that's not uncommon. You never know if you're looking for a live threat or a deceased murderer.

MICHAELSON: And you think that, maybe in that press conference, they weren't telling the whole story when it comes to the rental car.

MOORE: I mean, think about this. The rental car is what broke it. The -- well, the person who gave them the information on the rental car.

So, imagine yourself as an FBI agent. You walk into the rental car counter and you badge them, and you say was this person here? Did they rent a car? Yes. As a matter of fact, here it is. And you realize you've got the suspect.

There's two things you can ask them. No. 1, you can ask them, Can I have the credit card that he -- he did this with? That's fine.

What I would ask him is, you -- you track your cars, don't you? Can you tell me where that car is right now?

And so, I get the impression that the way they found the place in New Hampshire is not so much by running that credit card, which would take a couple hours with a bank. But probably on a GPS track on that car, which would also explain why SWAT teams arrived rather than just a few agents and a search team.

MICHAELSON: Meaning, because they knew where they were going?

MOORE: They knew -- they knew they had the car. And by the time they got there, they certainly had the financial information saying that he had rented a place up there.

So, they knew what they had when they walked in. I'm not saying that the credit card information wasn't valuable, but it wasn't emergent -- it wasn't the stuff that you have to act on right then.

MICHAELSON: Is it sort of surprising or strange, or maybe not, that he could potentially have been there, shot himself, that nobody would have heard it, that there would be no blood coming out from anywhere, that there would be -- that -- that he essentially could be decomposing there for days?

MOORE: Yes, it's -- it's possible. And, you know, it would depend on, you know, the temperature in the place.

And, you know, places like that have elaborate security setups, but they're not monitored all that well. What you can do is go back and see what happened.

But they actually have problems with people squatting in -- in their places, living in there. So, it's not uncommon for people to have that kind of 24 -- 24-hour access.

But when the agents got there, they probably saw the film of him going in at that time and never coming out.

MICHAELSON: Never coming out. Which is why their body language, I think, also changed once they got in there.

MOORE: Yes.

MICHAELSON: So, for everything, we -- that press conference was like over an hour long tonight. What -- which what --

MOORE: I mean -- I mean, that was wonderful.

MICHAELSON: Yes. What stood out to you the most in terms of this whole case?

MOORE: I think the fact that they -- that they didn't have anything until that witness came forward and that kind of a brave witness, I think.

MICHAELSON: Because it kind of goes to the point also about the idea of releasing video. Because you said this idea the other day of releasing video means you're desperate. You need something.

They release video, and then the guy sees himself --

MOORE: Yes.

MICHAELSON: -- and comes forward, hey, that's me. I'm the person of interest. Let me help you.

MOORE: And so, yes, you've got to give them credit for I mean, this is what you do. It's kind of like when you're fourth down in long yards, you're not going to run the ball. You're going to throw a pass. MICHAELSON: Yes.

MOORE: And so, I think that's what happened. And unfortunately, they got a tip that looked good early on in the investigation. You can't ignore somebody who has weapons and this kind of stuff.

[00:45:03]

But you shouldn't have a press conference claiming you've got him until you know you've got him.

And I think that that press conference was the thing that probably hurt people's confidence in the investigation quite a bit. But I think they rallied back, and they did what you need to do when you're fourth and long.

MICHAELSON: And every once in a while, the hail Mary is caught in the end zone, and you win the game.

MOORE: That's what happened here.

MICHAELSON: That's what happened here.

MOORE: That's exactly it.

MICHAELSON: By the way, the Seahawks were able to -- that's a whole other thing. Seahawks winning tonight in overtime.

Steve Moore, thank you for coming in.

MOORE: Thank you.

MICHAELSON: We appreciate it.

Coming up, other news tonight a new photo dump in the Jeffrey Epstein case. And it comes ahead of a key deadline. What can be gleaned from some of the latest images? What the Justice Department could be holding back. Our political panel next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:50:36]

MICHAELSON: The U.S. military carried out two more strikes in the Eastern Pacific Ocean on Thursday against alleged drug trafficking boats.

Five people were killed.

U.S. Southern Command confirmed the strikes in a social media post, saying that the military hit the two vessels because they were, quote, "engaged in narco trafficking operations."

At least 104 people have now been killed in the ongoing campaign by the U.S. military against drug trafficking vessels in the Pacific and Caribbean. So far, the Trump administration has not provided evidence that the

boats hit in these strikes carried drugs.

It is now pushing 1 a.m. in the morning in Washington, where the Justice Department is under pressure to meet a deadline on Friday for releasing its investigative files on the Jeffrey Epstein to the public. It's not clear what the parameters of that will be.

Meanwhile, lawmakers have released more photos from the late sex offender's estate. Democrats on the House Oversight Committee publicly shared another 60-plus images earlier, without a lot of context, include pictures of an unidentified female body covered with quotes from the novel -- the novel "Lolita," as well as photos of Bill Gates, Woody Allen, philosopher Noam Chomsky, conservative firebrand Steve Hilton.

We also see images of foreign female passports and a screenshot showing part of a text exchange where someone writes about sending girls to an unidentified place.

Joining me now to talk about this and more, conservative commentator, op-ed writer for "The Washington Examiner," Elisha Krauss; and political commentator and Loyola Law School adjunct -- adjunct professor Ethan Bearman.

Welcome to you both. Elisha, welcome back.

ELISHA KRAUSS, OP-ED WRITER, "THE WASHINGTON EXAMINER": Thank you.

MICHAELSON: Ethan, welcome to the show for the first time.

ETHAN BEARMAN, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR/LOYOLA LAW SCHOOL ADJUNCT PROFESSOR: Thank you so much.

MICHAELSON: What do you think when you see these -- these images and sort of what we should expect in the days ahead?

KRAUSS: I think that Donald Trump should never pardon Ghislaine Maxwell. I think I agree with Speaker Johnson on this when he said the woman did recruit and traffic minors and is not a good person.

But I also think that -- I think we already know the "there" that is there. We already knew that these people hung out with him. We already knew that Steve Bannon was a P.R., you know, maven for Epstein. We already knew that left, right, and center people in power were hanging out and palling around with him.

I think what we don't know is how did he get all of his money? And did he really have a little black book of bribes? I don't know that I believe that. I think it's gross. I think it's grotesque, but I don't think that we're going to be finding out any new bombshells anytime soon.

BEARMAN: Yes. I think the pictures released, first of all, by the Democrats, they didn't have context because the estate provided them without context. But importantly, we do have context for who these people are and what

was going on. And I think people on the left, including people on the right, are looking at this, that I don't care if it's a Democrat or a Republican. They need to be held accountable for crimes against children in the most gruesome and horrible way. And I hope -- hope -- that this starts leading to people being held to account.

MICHAELSON: I mean, and obviously, we don't know the context behind this, or if even the people pictured are accused. They're not accused of doing anything criminally wrong. But it just --

KRAUSS: Or even if the women pictured are minors or not.

MICHAELSON: Yes, but it just looks gross.

KRAUSS: Yes.

MICHAELSON: Right? And -- and unseemly. And the whole thing it just -- So, we'll see. Again, that deadline is Friday. We don't know exactly what they're going to release, how much of it's going to be redacted. All the rest of it.

Also, deadline on Capitol Hill, Ethan, on -- comes to health care. And right now, there is no deal in place to extend these Obamacare subsidies, which help about 21 million Americans pay for health care.

Some Republicans -- four Republicans -- sided with Democrats to try to force a vote to try to extend those for three years. The rest of the Republicans against that. Where do you see this going?

BEARMAN: Well, I think this is a tragic move on the part of the Republicans for the American people.

Since 2004, the Republicans have been saying that they have a plan for health care. Obamacare passed. There was no plan from the Republicans.

They -- they built their whole next set of years just saying no to everything related to health care.

Donald Trump ran for his first term saying that he had a healthcare plan, and he kept saying throughout his first term that he had a healthcare plan.

So, now they've come in, and they're pulling the rug out from the Americans who need the help the most. More than not are in red states that are dependent on those subsidies for Obamacare. Nothing has been proposed.

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And then we just heard, by the way, they need three more years to come up with a plan, is what they said. So, what's wrong with the Republicans? Why they -- they want to just destroy what exists without having a plan to replace it. And they've had 20 years to get a plan together.

MICHAELSON: Your thoughts?

KRAUSS: My response? Not completely disagreeing with you, but also Obamacare is part of the reason why the subsidies are necessary.

And I think that Speaker Johnson and other Republicans are right when they say, should we really be underwriting insurance companies?

Maybe we just broadly -- I always joke, if I had Elon Musk money, I would not have bought Twitter and turned it into X. I would have drastically reformed the medical institutions and insurances here in the United States because it is abysmal and it is not a free-market system that I would advocate for.

Listen, the Republicans have put themselves in a corner here because these subsidies are needed and are necessary for so many Americans.

MICHAELSON: A lot of their voters.

KRAUSS: And a lot of their voters. And they have been sitting on their hands and pointing the finger. And it's time that they step up and start to do things on a federal level and on a statewide level, to make sure that moms like me can have access to better health care options and education options for my kids, and that it just goes across the board.

MICHAELSON: So, do you think a deal gets done to extend them?

KRAUSS: I -- I think that it might get done. I think that those four Republicans are also looking at the polling and live in purple states where they're going, Oh, I want to be able to say that I worked with the other side, so I can get reelected.

MICHAELSON: Interesting. Turning Points USA holding their big convention. Erica Kirk speaking tonight. J.D. Vance is going to speaking there soon.

And she said on stage, essentially, We're going to back J.D. Vance. And we are going to get him elected and have him win big. Quite an endorsement from a very powerful person in the party. What do you make of that?

KRAUSS: A very powerful person in the movement. And I think, actually, if you look broadly at the conservative movement, organizations like Young Americas Foundation, Turning Point USA, have a lot of grassroots impact. And obviously, potential donor impact.

I'm -- listen, the vice president is OK by me. I -- there are other candidates in the field that I think could be much more interesting.

MICHAELSON: Who?

KRAUSS: Governor Cox of Utah. I love Governor Greg Abbott of Texas, and I've been a fan of Marco Rubio since 2014.

So, I -- I'm a big -- those are probably people that I would choose. And I don't know. There was a poll that came out earlier today. Ben Shapiro and others were talking about it on their shows that said that if it was a matchup between AOC and J.D. Vance, AOC would beat him.

I think that the affordability issue is something that we have to address, and I don't know that J.D. Vance is going to be the best candidate, especially when -- I don't know -- in the words of Susie Wiles, he's kind of conspiratorial.

BEARMAN: Kind of? Kind of? But it's funny, because if the Republicans -- you know, when I look at the potential candidates coming up for '28, you said Marco Rubio. You know, before him working in this President Trump administration, he would have been the Republican that I would have looked at to say, yes, you know what? He has --

KRAUSS: But why not now? Look at the successes that he's had as secretary of state.

You have the Gaza peace deal. You have what he's working on, I think, in trying to potentially convince President Trump and J.D. Vance, like, to side with Ukraine and not let them give up any more land in a deal with Russia.

There are so many things that he's been able to do successfully. I think even from border security, H1-b visas, everything that he has had, in addition to -- I mean, the guy got complete approval by the Senate. I don't understand why you wouldn't potentially vote for him if it was AOC versus Marco Rubio, who would you vote for?

BEARMAN: I can't answer that in this moment, and I'm not faced with that -- that vote challenge.

But I don't think Marco Rubio has the support within the party. Is the challenge.

KRAUSS: It'll be interesting. Yes, I think maybe the broad party he does. I think a general election he does. But the problem that you guys have and that we always have --

BEARMAN: The primaries.

KRAUSS: -- is you have the primaries, where it's the fringe wings that choose the guy or the gal.

MICHAELSON: And typically, vice presidents have a very hard time --

KRAUSS: True.

MICHAELSON: -- because they can't separate themselves from the current person. And basically, other than George H.W. Bush, there's not a lot of examples of vice presidents winning. Joe Biden did it, of course, later on, with some separation.

The other big story of the day, the Trump Kennedy Center, the president renaming it. Well, the -- the board of people that he appointed, renaming it on his behalf.

KRAUSS: Yes.

MICHAELSON: An idea he's floated. Do you think this is a good thing?

KRAUSS: I don't think it's going to happen. And I don't necessarily know that it's a good thing. I thought that people on the right were kind of against changing names of things, but I don't know. At least they're not trying to change Ronald Reagan Airport.

BEARMAN: Well, look, I'm against any living president or politician having things named after him. Wait till they're no longer with us. Otherwise, it's an ego trip that is just done for political purposes to suck up to that individual.

MICHAELSON: Well, and not usually done while they're in office. Usually, it will be at least after they leave office. So, it's interesting that that happened, but he's made a lot of changes in the Kennedy Center.

KRAUSS: He's the guy that need -- he had to make the changes to the Kennedy Center. I mean, I've talked to people in the arts, left, right and center. And they were, like, God bless the man for what he's done for reviving that place and restoring it for the future. I don't know, maybe --