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The Story Is with Elex Michaelson

DOJ Releases Some Epstein Files; DEM - Not Releasing Full Epstein Files Is - Breaking The Law; U.S. Strikes Targets In Syria; CNN Investigation: Convenience Store Scams; Why Circle K Is Home To A Wave of Crypto Scams; Trump Touts Economic Accomplishments In North Carolina; Erika Kirk Endorses JD Vance For President In 2028; TikTok's Biggest Night; How Jordan Howlett Became a TikTok Sensation; Delaware Supreme Court Restores Musk's 2018 Tesla Pay Package; Bowen Yang Announces He's Leaving The Cast Of SNL; aired 12-1a ET

Aired December 20, 2025 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN HOST: Pigeon lady, which looks remarkably like Piers Morgan, which is the best part of that movie.

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST: You're blowing my mind, a soundtrack and a Piers Morgan reference, OK. I'm going to home and watch it. Tell me what else you got coming on tonight.

MICHAELSON: Well, we've got a great show with folks all over the map, from Gloria Allred to Frank Luntz to Keyshawn Johnson. We've got run the gamut here on "The Story Is" tonight.

COATES: All right. We'll get to it. Have a great one.

MICHAELSON: Thanks, Laura. Have a great weekend. Happy holidays to you. "The Story Is" starts right now.

This is absolutely breaking the law. "The Story Is" the productions, the Epstein files are finally released, but they include a whole lot of blacked out pages and thousands of missing documents, but what we found out is the most important documents are missing. With us live on set Epstein survivor, Alicia Arden, her attorney, Gloria Allred, plus analysis from Frank Luntz.

"The Story Is" a CNN investigation. Steve Beckett was being robbed, and it was happening in a familiar, safe place. How convenient stores across the U.S., including Circle K, have become hubs for scams. Young law here to break the story.

"The Story Is" TikTok sensation, Jordan The Stallion, has over 30 million followers on social media. He's here live to discuss this week's TikTok awards, potential TikTok sale and his secret to success.

Live from Los Angeles. "The Story Is" with Elex Michaelson. Thanks for being with us. I'm Elex Michaelson. "The Story Is" the release of thousands of documents from the Epstein files. The batch of documents appears, at least after early reviews to include no smoking guns and relatively few major revelations. But there are many more files that have not been released, and Democrats are slamming the Department of Justice for not releasing all the files.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT GARCIA, RANKING MEMBER, HOUSE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE: This is absolutely breaking the law. I mean, they have not produced, actually, what they were required to do, which was all the files by today in a way that was searchable for the public and that is not what's the case. What we have essentially is one, we have a group of documents that have already been released to the public, and so there's -- could be even more than half of the documents we're reviewing right now have already been released that already does not count for new information. Then we have of what is appears to be new, including some photos and other documents those are highly redacted, and we don't really have any explanation as to why they've been redacted or what is actually there in those documents, and so we have right now are what we're seeing is not transparency. This is not what the law passed. This does not meet the subpoena that the Oversight Committee has in place.

What it is, it is defying the Congress, and quite frankly, defying what the President signed into law in releasing all of these files.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: So this is what those redactions that Robert Garcia, who Chairs the or is the Ranking Member of the Oversight Committee is talking about. Big black marks covering information that the Justice Department decided should not be revealed. The Department says it is trying to protect innocent peoples who are mentioned in the files. The Deputy Attorney General insists it's not a cover up to protect President Trump or anyone else.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TODD BLANCHE, U.S. DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: There's no effort to hold anything back because there's the name Donald J. Trump or anybody else's name, Bill Clinton's name, Reid Hoffman's name. There's no effort to hold back or not hold back because of that, and so, but again, we're not redacting the names of famous men and women that are associated with Epstein.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: The files do include newly released photos of former President Bill Clinton, which show him in a jacuzzi and a pool, as well as with Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell, a Clinton spokesperson says the former President did not know about Epstein's crimes and cut off the relationship before those crimes came to light.

CNN, Senior Justice Correspondent, Evan Perez joins us now from Washington. Evan, I mean, the big question is, what did we learn or maybe, what have we not learned?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, I think the latter is the bigger story. Look, there's plenty of pictures of Bill Clinton and certainly the White House and even the Justice Department. They've pointed those out. But I think the bigger story is what the Justice Department has left out of this hundreds of thousands of pages that they posted on the website.

By the way, if you go to the website when they posted it this afternoon, one of the things we noticed is that they set up a waiting room. It's almost like you were buying concert tickets and you were a ticket master, because it was that level of interest that the Justice Department website was getting, and then when you got in there, one of the first things we were looking for was this 2007 document that was that was written by a prosecutor in the Southern District of Florida. It was a 60 count indictment of Jeffrey Epstein, and one of the reasons we wanted to see it was to see what the prosecutors there were working on.

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And indictment that was ultimately squelched by the U.S. Attorney Alex Acosta there at the time, and allowed Jeffrey Epstein to get a much more lenient deal from the DA in Palm Beach County. And the reason for that is that when Jeffrey Epstein finally was prosecuted in 2019 there was a two count indictment that was brought by the Justice Department in the Southern District of New York. And so that document certainly would tell us a lot about what happened in between those years, what exactly was left out? And that document is not among the ones that we saw.

And one of the things we saw from the Deputy Attorney General Tom Blanche, he wrote a letter to Congress claiming transparency, but one of the things he describes is all of the things that they were claiming, essentially were privileged that they were withholding. And among the things that they said were being withheld were things that were -- that fell under deliberative process privilege, that means essentially anything that was internal to the Justice Department that showed how they made decisions that was being withheld.

And I think that is essentially a violation of what Congress wanted when they passed this law a month ago.

MICHAELSON: So the law said that the stuff was supposed to come out by now, but Todd Blanche is saying we're going to put out more stuff over the next few weeks. Is that sort of within the law?

PEREZ: No, it's definitely a violation of the line that you're hearing that from the critics, including from Thomas Massie, the Republican, and Ro Khanna, the Democrat who helped shepherd this law. The law said that they were supposed to produce this and produce it in a searchable fashion, by today, by Friday and what they didn't do was that, right? They say that they -- it's going to take another couple of weeks, and they ended the Blanche, the Deputy Attorney General. He says that there's a number of reasons for that, including just a great volume of documents, and the fact that even just recently, this week, they got another pile of documents that they needed to go through. They said they had 200 lawyers at the Justice Department reviewing these, these files. And one of the things they were doing was going through and finding the 1,200 names of victims, survivors and their families, members, their relatives, to make sure their data, their information was protected. Of course, everybody wants that. So we'll see whether, in the next couple of weeks, as the Deputy Attorney General says, whether they end up complying with the law, perhaps a little late, but we shall see. But you know, one of the things Elex is simply, if they are going to stick by these privileges that they say they're protecting, that is the next battle that we shall see between Congress and the Justice Department.

MICHAELSON: Evan Perez, thank you for your reporting.

PEREZ: Sure.

MICHAELSON: Joining us now is Alicia Arden, who is an Epstein survivor, and her attorney, Gloria Allred. Welcome back to the show, both of you. Gloria, let's start with you. You represent or have represented 20 separate different survivors of Epstein. Your takeaway from today?

GLORIA ALLRED, AMERICAN ATTORNEY: Well, it's very disappointing, because in general, the survivors fought for the release of the Epstein files. They demonstrated a lot of courage. They spoke out. They went and spoke with legislators. They did everything they could, because they know their own truth, but they don't know the big picture. They want to know how this could have happened and how it could be prevented in the future.

In other words, were the third parties, rich, powerful, famous men who knew Epstein, associated with him, who may have assisted him, enabled him, conspired with him to sex traffic underage girls and adults. We don't know. We don't know what the evidence is. We don't know if there was enough evidence to prosecute the men. Maybe there wasn't any evidence of a crime at all. Maybe there was some against some men, but not considered sufficient to prosecute.

Bottom line is, the justice system in the past, Department of Justice has failed Epstein survivors and today they failed them again because they didn't put out all of the files, and what they did put out is heavily redacted. Now some of it has to be redacted because there are exceptions, exemptions. For example, the names of victims. Also, they are blacking out family members names who are in the photos, because that might identify who that victim is.

And in addition, they're redacting sexually explicit videos involving sex with children, which, of course is pornography that should be redacted and even Congress should not be allowed to see that. And in addition, they allege they're redacting anything involving pending investigations. Well, which investigations are pending and against whom? We know what the President said, he said, investigate prominent Democrats, but we don't know who else.

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Now the work product is going to be an argument that they may have also redacted that meaning discussions internally among DOJ prosecutors that generally is not something that must be provided, but perhaps under the law it must be. MICHAELSON: Yeah, and we'll see going forward on that. Alicia for a reminder for people that may not have seen your story before, in 1997 you were not a minor, but you were in Santa Monica. You allege that Jeffrey Epstein acted inappropriately towards you in a hotel room. You went to the police at the time, talked with them twice. There were never any criminal charges pressed against him. Your reaction to what happened today?

ALICIA ARDEN, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: Well, it's really kind of another slap in the face, a little bit, Elex, because I wanted all the files to come out like they said that they were going to and the redaction is a little bit puzzling to me, because my police report was heavily redacted also in 1997, and I thought, Is that allowed? Is that legal for them to do that? Why can't I see? What was redacted as to what I said in my police report in 1997 and I feel that they should have followed him, then went to shutters to see what was going on, what this person, Jeffrey Epstein, was doing at the hotel.

And I have always said to this day, if they would have followed him, I could have perhaps saved the girls from going through what they did, if they just would have taken me seriously in 1997 and taken us all more seriously today, and released all the files today. December the 19th, like they said they were going to and not put half the files out and then redact them all.

MICHAELSON: It's interesting that the Trump administration, at least their communications folks are really leaning into this Bill Clinton picture. We saw Karoline Leavitt, the press secretary, posting on X about it. Steven Cheung, the Head of the Communications Office, posting about Bill Clinton. What do you make of that response? Are you concerned about Bill Clinton's behavior, but they certainly seem to be leaning into this in a way they have not with some of President Trump's relationship.

ALLRED: Well, I think it's a ploy. It's kind of like a red herring. Look over here. Now, look over here. Look over here. Don't look at President Trump. Look at former President Clinton. Look anybody that has photos taken with Jeffrey Epstein, look, let's look at -- let's ask questions. Be careful about reaching conclusions. It may be that there's criminal activity. Maybe there's nothing there. Maybe it's just a political distraction, as they say, because now we're involved not just in the world of law. We're involved in the world of politics, and politics is a blood sport, part of the reason that I like it, but it that's what's going on. And whereas, like a lot of the survivors, they would just like to know the facts man, nothing but the facts, and then see if there's sufficient evidence to hold others accountable.

MICHAELSON: Yeah, because Alicia, you're not involved in politics and you don't love the blood sport. You just want answers at this point, right? I mean, what do you want to see happen now? Because you've worked -- spoken about this for years, trying to get this, and this was supposed to be the day.

ARDEN: For years, right, Elex. And yes, today was supposed to be the day. I only just want transparency, like they say it's coming out of all of the alleged pedophiles that may have done something to these girls. I -- all the names need to come out, not that they -- a picture doesn't say anything. If there's a picture of them, OK, that doesn't mean that they did anything wrong, but if they did something wrong and their names are in the actual files, then that needs to come out, so we can all get -- it's the Jeffrey Epstein transparency files, and they've been telling us about it for years. So I just want them to keep to do what they say, like was supposed to be today, the DOJ.

MICHAELSON: Yeah.

ALLRED: So in other words, it needs to be in context.

MICHAELSON: Yeah. Right.

ALLRED: That's what it means. Who is going to have the narrative that we can trust about what really went on in Jeffrey Epstein's circle of friends. We don't know right now, it may just have to be the press, because a lot of people cannot trust the Department of Justice. So now --

MICHAELSON: And then a lot of people, unfortunately, don't trust the press, and we have a whole big trust problem right now and that's a bigger --

ALLRED: Maybe that's where legacy press comes in.

MICHAELSON: Yeah, yeah.

ALLRED: I don't know. The public is going to -- and the court of public opinion is going to draw its own conclusions --

MICHAELSON: Sure.

ALLRED: -- but we need all of the files released to even begin to know what happened.

MICHAELSON: Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

ARDEN: And now they're having more time to come out with all the files.

MICHAELSON: Yeah, so.

ARDEN: And now they have more time, and are they going to do it before the new year?

MICHAELSON: Yeah, we'll see. Gloria, Alicia thank you both for coming in and sharing your perspectives. Really appreciate it.

ALLRED: Thank you, Elex.

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ARDEN: Thank you, Elex.

MICHAELSON: When we come back, CNN investigates how convenience stores across the U.S., including Circle K, have become hubs for scams involving automatic teller machines that use crypto. This may help you listen up to it, plus the U.S. launches strikes in Syria. President Trump says it's retaliation, but we know about the attacks. Next here on "The Story Is."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MICHAELSON: "The Story Is" in Syria, where the U.S. has struck a number of targets linked to ISIS. President Trump says the strikes are retaliation for the attack that killed two American service members and a civilian interpreter back on December 13th, one official tells CNN strikes hit dozens of targets, including infrastructure and weapons caches.

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Syria says it's steadfast in its commitment to fighting ISIS, the gunman who killed the two U.S. service members was part of Syria's Internal Security Service. His connections to ISIS aren't clear, and the group hasn't claimed responsibility for the attack.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONIO GUTERRES, SECRETARY-GENERAL OF THE UNITED NATIONS: It breaks my heart to see the ongoing scale of human suffering in Gaza. Families are enduring the unendurable. Children are forced to sleep in flooded tents. Buildings already battered by bombardment are collapsing under the weight of rain and wind, claiming more civilian lives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: The U.N. Chief there speaking about the ongoing problems facing Gaza with more aid being allowed in situation is slowly improving. U.N. backed monetary group says that Gaza is no longer experiencing a man made famine due to an influx of humanitarian aid that has followed that cease fire agreement. But the organization noted that despite the improvements, most people are still facing what they call high levels of acute food insecurity.

Thousands of Americans, many of them retirees have fallen victims to scams involving crypto ATM machines. So far this year, more than a quarter of a billion dollars has been stolen. Scammers trick Americans into dumping millions into the ATM. That cash then turned into cryptocurrency, which ends up in the hands of scammers overseas.

Kyung Lah is here, you've been looking into this, and the ATM is pretty easy to access.

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, and part of that access is because of where they are. These ATMs are in convenience stores across the country, and one of the largest crypto ATM corporate deals involves a familiar name, Circle K.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE BECKETT, SCAM VICTIM: Holding several $100 bills in my hand.

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Steve Beckett was being robbed, and it was happening in a familiar safe place.

BECKETT: I'm thinking, OK, why the Circle K? And then he told me, that's where the Bitcoin machines located.

LAH: A scammer on the phone made Steve believe he was in legal trouble.

BECKETT: I got a call and said he was with the Federal Reserve Board. I was scared to death of what's going on. I'm thinking, I'm going to jail.

LAH: And there was only one way out.

BECKETT: Gave me instructions and told me what to do.

LAH: He put $7,000 into this machine. The scammer told Steve to put his cash into the machine. It was instantly converted to crypto, and the scammer, likely based overseas, disappeared. The owner of this is Bitcoin Depot, the largest crypto ATM operator in the U.S. But the host of the machine, at the center of the scam is Circle K.

BECKETT: Because it's in a convenience store. You think everything in a convenience stores for your convenience.

LAH: Crypto ATMs let people buy bitcoin using cash, but the machines can charge high fees on transactions.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No it's a scam.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're all talking at once just wait one second.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If that's somebody telling you not to hang up, hang up. Don't put in any more money. They are scamming you. I promise you.

LAH: Scammers are ripping people off using crypto ATMs across the U.S., but Circle K is Bitcoin depots, largest corporate partner, CNN and ICIJ reviewed more than 150 cases of scams using crypto ATMs inside Circle K's. 30 Circle K employees tell us they know about the problem of crypto scams, and some even alerted their management. The retailer has kept the machines in its stores and even renewed a deal with Bitcoin Depot earlier this year.

Bitcoin Depot Founder Brandon Mintz explained at a 2019 conference why having crypto machines in stores is key to earning trust.

BRANDON MINTZ, FOUNDER, BITCOIN DEPOT: Once you have a physical machine sitting somewhere next to an ATM that you've used all the time the store you always go to, you're going to think that this is a real service, and you're going to feel a lot more comfortable using it.

LAH: And it has paid off. Bitcoin Depot earned half a billion dollars in revenue last year. Bitcoin Depot tells CNN it includes multiple warnings on their machines and bad actors are to blame for scams.

BECKETT: I'm a sucker because I'm a senior citizen. That's sad. LAH: Steve Beckett says he fell for the con because the scammer sent him to his local Circle K. What is the responsibility of these convenience stores like Circle K?

BECKETT: The stores that these machines are in need to be held responsible. Shame on you. Why? Because you're not making enough.

LAH: Circle K tells CNN, the crime starts outside of their stores, and it works with Bitcoin Depot to meet its standards and customer expectations.

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But Circle K also makes money. The company has earned millions of dollars by hosting the Bitcoin ATMs while its own customers get scammed inside their stores. One Circle K employee at a City Council hearing in Florida said her company turns a blind eye.

DEBBIE JOY, CIRCLE K EMPLOYEE: I see this way too much, and Circle K policy is it's not our machine, it's not our problem. But I see it all too often.

LAH: Scams inside Circle K stores are so common that their own employees have fallen for them. Take a look at this sign behind the counter ordering workers to never drop money from the register into a Bitcoin ATM, and listen to what a Circle K District Manager told police after a scam was interrupted in Niceville, Florida.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hate these machines. I'd love to get them out of the stores.

NATHAN VANCLEAVE, SGT., EVANSVILLE, INDIANA POLICE DEPT.: You can only imagine how much scam victims money is going through those machines.

LAH: Sergeant Nathan VanCleave works in financial crimes for the Evansville, Indiana Police Department his hometown.

VANCLEAVE: We really desperately, at this moment, need to get the plug pulled on these Bitcoin ATMs to make the scams harder. The road block is the big corporations gas stations that are hosting these Bitcoin ATMs, they need to give up the profit that they are making off of scam victims.

LAH: You're asking a corporation to take a moral choice here.

VANCLEAVE: The right thing to do is to lose that profit and not cause harm to other people. We had a local store in town once, we told them, hey, these machines are only for scams. They just pulled the plug on it.

LAH: The machine was just right over there, right?

KATE REDMAN, MANAGER, HAYNIE'S CORNER MART: Right in the back, and we pulled it. Now, pull the cord.

LAH: You pull the cord out of the wall. REDMAN: Yes.

LAH: Doesn't the store need money?

REDMAN: We need money, but we didn't like carrying the heights, and we don't like to watch people get ripped off.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: So what do the companies have to say?

LAH: Well, we did reach out to them and ask them for on camera interviews. They declined both of them to speak on a camera. They did both send us a statement. Circle K sent us this statement saying, "As a responsible retailer, we work closely with business partners like Bitcoin Depot to ensure their services consistently meet our standards, regulatory requirements and customers' needs and expectations."

Bitcoin Depot also sent us this statement saying, "We provide our retail partners with clear information about the safeguards built into our kiosk like scam warnings and that unfortunately, bad actors attempt to misuse many types of financial self-service terminals." The issue, the company says is not limited to just one retailer.

MICHAELSON: So how widespread an issue is this?

LAH: It is extraordinarily widespread. I actually just got a phone call from a friend of mine who has been a source, who is well educated, young in his 30s, and he got scammed. So these are things that are ubiquitous. The FBI says that there are about 12,000 complaints that came in so far this year, to the tune of $330 million this is bigger than last year and the previous year. So this is something that we've seen growing every year.

MICHAELSON: Kyung Lah, one of the best reporters at CNN, it is so great to have you on "The Story Is" for the first time.

LAH: Thank you for having me.

MICHAELSON: I'm honored to be on the team with you.

LAH: I appreciate it.

MICHAELSON: Up next, President Trump speaks in North Carolina touting his economic accomplishments while down playing inflation. Pollster Frank Luntz joins us to discuss the state of America. How did we get here, and how do we walk back? Stay with us.

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MICHAELSON: Welcome back to "The Story Is" I'm Elex Michaelson. A look now at today's top stories.

President Trump says U.S. strikes in Syria are retaliation for an attack last week that killed two American service members. One official tells CNN the strikes hit dozens of targets, including infrastructure and weapons linked to the terror group ISIS. Syrian government says it would work to ensure that ISIS has no safe havens on Syrian territory. Investigators believe the events leading to the shootings of an MIT professor and those at Brown University may have spanned decades. Suspect Claudio Neves Valente took his own life, attended the same academic program as the professor in their native Portugal. A motive has not yet been identified.

Source tells CNN, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services intends to overhaul the schedule of childhood vaccines to recommend fewer shots. That change would originally set to be announced on Friday, but has now been delayed until 2026 to avoid interfering with the White House announcement about efforts to lower drug costs.

President Trump speaking in Rocky Mount North Carolina Friday night, where he touted his economic accomplishments and insisted that the economy is improving. The President claimed credit for cooling inflation, which has slowed or in the latest Consumer Price Index report, but economists warn that the government shutdown likely impacted that data, so it might not be the best data.

The President also repeated his call for the government to give health care money directly to Americans, rather than funding insurance subsidies.

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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Let the money not go to the insurance companies. The problem is the Democrats were shut down the government because they are totally beholden and so simple, the money should go to the people.

[00:35:00]

The people should then take all of this money and buy the best health care there is. I took office last January. I inherited a mess, and very simply, I'm fixing it. Joe Biden gave us the worst inflation in the history of our country. One year ago, our country was dead. Now we are the hottest country anywhere in the world, because we finally have a President who puts America first.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: Earlier Friday, the President announced what he called the most favored nation deals with nine pharmaceutical companies. They require medications to be sold in the U.S. at the lowest cost available in peer nations.

More now on the today's big news. Department of Justice has released thousands of documents from the Epstein files. The batch of documents appears at least after early reviews to include new major smoking guns, relatively few major revelations, but there are thousands more documents the Justice Department has not released. By law it was required to release all of them today. They said they need more time. The newly released documents are available on the Justice Department's website right now.

Pollster and Communication Analyst Frank Luntz here live now to break all this down. Frank, welcome to "The Story Is" for the first time.

FRANK LUTZ, POLLSTER & COMMUNICATION ANALYST: It's a pleasure. Congratulations on the show. I like the back drop. Things continue to get worse. Going to you on the top of that building, just to warn you.

MICHAELSON: It is pretty nice here in Los Angeles. Yeah.

LUTZ: The year is almost over, and we still don't know the truth about the Epstein files.

MICHAELSON: Right.

LUTZ: At some point the American people say enough. Stop playing games. They have the right to know. They deserve to know. They've -- this is the reason why people are so hostile to Washington and to government, is that they think that they're not being told the truth.

MICHAELSON: Well, and clearly they're not being told the whole truth based off of this. They're supposed to release everything today. Is this strategy of doing a drip, drip, drip, which is kind of what Bill Clinton did back in the 90s with kind of worked for him, that people just sort of tire of the story and move on, and by the time you get to the truth, they're sort of expecting it. Or is like you're saying, do they just get so frustrated by the whole thing that they kind of give you a middle finger?

LUTZ: It's a combination of both. And in reality, it's the pictures the matter most. The pictures are what cause people to pay attention, and the pictures they remember. If there are other pictures that are damning about famous people being down there, being involved, that's what destroys a career. That's what it's salacious. But the problem is, it continues to add to this belief that we're all corrupt, that there's something wrong with the system, that it is not just broken, but it has become an embarrassment.

And I wish that that were not the case, because in the end, if you don't trust the institutions that run the country, you won't trust democracy, you won't trust economic freedom, you won't trust the economy, and that's not good for the country.

MICHAELSON: And you think the system is broken, right?

LUTZ: Yes, I think it is broken, and I think that that skepticism has become cynicism, and that's one of the reasons why we're so rude to each other and so offensive to each other.

MICHAELSON: Yeah, I mean, what are you hearing on that front in the focus groups? Because you've been talking to people for decades now, and watching the conversation between Americans of both parties not just the folks in Washington, the people out that are regular voters, and you've noticed a real change.

LUTZ: I stopped doing it for a while, for about a year and a half, because I just can take it that people were so awful to each other. I've got a tape now that I only play in speeches that I give. I've not shown it on TV where people are so awful that you can barely hear them, because they're all yelling each other, all talking over each other, they're all insulting each other. And these are senior citizens in Phoenix. These are new immigrants in Washington, D.C. These are women in New York City. These are voters in Tampa, Florida and Cleveland, Ohio. It's all across the country. And if you don't tell people, don't do this. They're going to do it.

MICHAELSON: Yeah.

LUTZ: And this is what happens at Thanksgiving dinners and Christmas dinners, and I think it's destroying the country.

MICHAELSON: I mean, it's amazing that it wasn't quite like this not that long ago. I mean, you think about the fact that in 2012 Mitt Romney was the nominee for the Republican Party, Barack Obama the nominee for the Democratic Party, they had a fairly friendly back and forth. This week, we have this Turning Point USA conference hosted by Erika Kirk, which Charlie Kirk started this. We see this happening in Phoenix. All the top conservatives heading there, including JD Vance, who she endorsed this week.

And then an op ed in the New York Times from Mitt Romney that just came out, where he's arguing to tax the rich, which is so different than what he said Mitt Romney. Tax the rich like me. Let's show a portion of this op ed where he basically says that on -- that you got to both tax the rich and you've got to cut spending.

[00:40:00]

Republicans want to do one. Democrats got to do another. Our deficits are bad. I mean, this shows like we're living in different Americas.

LUTZ: I've got a picture that it may be in your control room. It's when I met Ronald Reagan in 1980, I was a kid. I was 17-years-old, and it was a different kind of politics. It was a politics of respect, a politics of appreciation. I was a kid there, and I remember how decent he was and how connected he was to the people around him, not looking around to see who he should shake hands with, but the kid goes and walks up to him and says, sir, it's an honor to meet you. He spent five minutes with me, and I was so impressed at how focused he was and how civil he was, and the people that I meet today just don't have that.

MICHAELSON: So is that a genie you can put back in the bottle this, this sort of, I mean, you look at stuff like what President Trump is doing now with this walk of fame, where he's got plaques of his predecessors making fun of them. I mean, that's the kind of thing that we would have never seen before. A lot of people in his base think it's hilarious. Think it's great for him doing that, and they love him for it. They feel like he's a fighter for them, and they feel like the system so screwed up that fine, but it is a change in norms, for sure. LUTZ: And it has a lasting effect on young people. There's a reason why there's more bullying now than ever. There's a reason why there's more assaults of young people against their teachers because they think they can get away with it. And in the work that I've been doing, I've been trying to teach civility.

MICHAELSON: And you do this at West Point and you're really impressed with the folks there, and what is the biggest lesson that we can learn from them that's different than what you're seeing around the country. And do you think people can actually hear that?

LUTZ: Well, you've got a couple pictures also back there, one with Tom Brady, who is so kind to them, gave the cadets the opportunity. He had responsibilities at this event, spoke to them for 10 minutes, and wanted to teach them about leadership, about character, which is what West Point does. There's another one back there with Chuck Schumer, and the problem with that was he gave them the time to take the picture, but there was no give and take, and in the end, it's the ability.

I wanted to be in studio. It's late for me. I'm came from the East Coast yesterday, but I wanted to be here to show you the respect to be able to look you straight in the eye and to engage in real conversation. I know I've made mistakes, and there's some things that I'm embarrassed about my career that I'm now seeking to address and fix.

Climate change being the best example, as I tell people to say, climate because climate change is political. Climate is the occurrence of this. The ability to apologize. The ability to acknowledge that we make mistakes is essential in a democracy, and we're losing that ability.

MICHAELSON: Frank, thank you. Thanks for coming in.

LUTZ: Glad to meet you.

MICHAELSON: Thanks for showing us the respect for coming in. Appreciate it.

Coming up. TikTok hosted an inaugural award show highlighting the best content on the app. After the break, one of the top nominees joins me to discuss the big night and why he has such a big following. Stay with us.

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[00:45:00]

MICHAELSON: The first U.S. TikTok award show Thursday Night highlighted the apps best content creators over the last year, despites, partying starting almost an hour late because of technical issues inside the Hollywood venue with more than 170 million users in America, the award show narrowed down the best of the best, including Creator of the Year, Video of the Year, Music of the Year.

Jordan Howlett, who goes by the handle Jordan the Stallion, was a nominee for Storyteller of the Year.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JORDON HOWLETT, AMERICAN SOCIAL MEDIA PERSONALITY AND ACTOR: Why? What happened here? What's going on? What -- did you look at the schedule?

IDRIS ELBA, ACTOR AND RAPPER: You mean the outfits?

HOWLETT: Yes, Idris Elba, the outfits. Don't steal my thunder. You have so many thunders. DJ, actor, you probably sing as well. I have one thunder. This is my thunder. This is my thunder. Don't steal my thunder. I'm not judging.

ELBA: Listen. Listen. Look. We look differently, OK. Cool.

HOWLETT: You look cool now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: Jordan Howlett joins us now. Congratulations on the nomination and the success you've got between all your social media apps. You've got 42 million followers.

JORDON HOWLETT, AMERICAN SOCIAL MEDIA PERSONALITY AND ACTOR: Yes.

MICHAELSON: That's wild.

HOWLETT: Thank you very much.

MICHAELSON: Let's tell a little bit about your back story. So you started, you were a baseball player. Heading into COVID, thinking potentially you're going to be a professional baseball player. And like so many other things, COVID derailed those plans.

HOWLETT: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, when I started playing baseball, I was super young, so I was like, I probably started when I was 16 or so, and I wanted to be a professional baseball player, and I went to this whole arc to try to get it done. And then I ended up going to UC Riverside to play, and I was in talks about getting drafted, and I was really excited about it. And then when COVID happened, everything just kind of got derailed. I ended up being back home taking care of family and working 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. jobs. And then this all happened.

MICHAELSON: And eating like many of us did during COVID. So even though, as a kid you say you were sort of into chicken fingers and burgers and didn't have a very sophisticated palette, you're now the food guy.

[00:50:00]

So you make all these videos about food, and you tell stories with them. So how do you think about storytelling? You were Storyteller of the Year. How do you think about telling a story with your videos?

HOWLETT: Honestly. That's the thing, is that storytelling is just a beautiful craft, and I think that a lot of people, what they need to do is try to just gain the attention of the audience. And when the audience trusts you to take them through this journey, you got to make sure you get into point A, from point A, rather to point B, and just an entertaining and captivating way. And it's a beautiful muscle that can constantly get worked out daily, and it's really fun.

MICHAELSON: How's your palette changed?

HOWLETT: Tremendously, tremendously. My parents are so amazed. I tried a pickle for the first time, and I think in what, in about a decade, and they were very surprised. It's been expanding.

MICHAELSON: What's the best thing you've tried that you thought you'd never try, but you actually really liked?

HOWLETT: Oh my gosh, best thing I never thought I'd try. Funny enough, I would have to say something simple sushi. Actually wasn't too big on sushi until I started doing these videos. And I was like, wow.

MICHAELSON: Well, and your sushi video is one of the most popular videos that you've had like 64 million views on your trying sushi.

HOWLETT: Yes, yes, yes. I just tried some sushi, right? And I was amazed by the getting the mechanics of it all, because I'm just now good at using chopsticks. But before, and it was a problem.

MICHAELSON: So among your 42, OK, so you're now doing the sun, the glasses, glasses as part of your stick.

HOWLETT: Yeah. Sure.

MICHAELSON: And a lot of celebrities are among your 42 million fans, some big, big names, including Michael B. Jordan. Let's look at some of this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL B. JORDAN, AMERICAN ACTOR AND FILM PRODUCER: Come here. Back up. Lemon juice can erase holiday?

JORDON HOWLETT, AMERICAN SOCIAL MEDIA PERSONALITY AND ACTOR: No. What? Is that true? Is that actually a thing?

JORDAN: And they also got some recipes too. Is that a petite.

HOWLETT: So huge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: Oh, yeah, it's pretty cool. And all these guys, I mean, are they like approaching you at this point, I would imagine.

HOWLETT: Oh, I wish I was that cool. I'm actively approaching them as much as I can be like, hey, I got a fun thing. You know, it takes little to no time at all, and just, just something fun. I want to make sure we can put out into the world. I mean, it's just cool to be able to have celebrities come down and just, and just have something as grounded as a fun video.

MICHAELSON: Yeah, and it's a lot of celebrities. I mean, we've seen the stars of Superman were a part of this as well. We've seen Glen Powell was a part of this. Idris Elba, obviously, as we saw.

HOWLETT: Yes.

MICHAELSON: This is some real a list, and they're hanging out with you.

HOWLETT: Oh my god, I would say I'm hanging out with these guys. Maybe, again, they're amazing. And like we said before, like, it's they teach me daily just about the craft, about how to navigate when you get a lot of attention. And it's been, it's just been such a learning with parents.

MICHAELSON: So party your stick is you got these glasses, which clearly you don't wear in real life.

HOWLETT: You know what I got? So I overthought it today, and I legitimately left him at the house. Yeah, I actually do wear glasses. And I try my best to keep them as protected as I can until I'm eating.

MICHAELSON: But then you throw them, right.

HOWLETT: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

MICHAELSON: Where did that? How did that start? I'm throwing the glasses.

HOWLETT: Well, I tried a Little Caesar's bite. There was a pizza bite news, and that specific one was incredibly well seasoned. OK, I'll take a bite. Yeah, I had my glasses on. I took a bite, and it was just so good. I slam my glasses on the table. And people were like that. Do that more.

MICHAELSON: That's your thing.

HOWLETT: Sure. I'll give it a try.

MICHAELSON: Cisco's and Ebert had the two thumbs up. You've got the slamming of the glasses.

HOWLETT: Yeah, I'm really trying to throw those things. They're pretty good, pretty durable.

MICHAELSON: TikTok awards. What was that like? You're there in the middle of an award show for content creators.

HOWLETT: I'll tell you in one line it was a tremendous honor just to be considered a storyteller. There's tremendous storytellers in the world who I think are far better than me, and I think that me just being recognized, I was so grateful for it, and it was cool to see everybody being able to be recognized for the cool stuff they do. So it was awesome. MICHAELSON: Awesome. And then you're so big that there's now a website dedicated to your food secrets. Fast food secrets club. So if you want to check out some of what he's done. You can learn about food that way, and of course, follow him on social media, if you're not already, which so many people already are. Jordan the Stallion in social media, you can check him out.

Congratulations on the success.

HOWLETT: Thank you so much.

MICHAELSON: It's fun to hang out with you. We have more ahead here on "The Story Is," stay with CNN.

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[00:55:00]

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MICHAELSON: After a seven year long legal battle, the world's richest person has won a $139 billion pay package from Tesla shareholders first approved the plan for Elon Musk back in 2018, but a lower court ruled the compensation was too large. Now, Delaware Supreme Court has restored the deal, saying blocking it would have left Musk unpaid for years of work. Separately, Tesla shareholders approved a potential $1 trillion package for Musk earlier this year.

One of Saturday Night Live's most popular comedians is leaving the show after a seven year stint. Bowen Yang, during this sketch comedy show, as a writer back in 2018 became a cast member a year later, kind of comedic chameleon for his versatility. He's played characters including this pygmy hippo, Moo Deng, as well as George Santos, and he's now making movies nominated for Five Primetime Emmys. Yang's last SNL show will be on Saturday, hosted by his costar in Wicked Ariana Grande, with Cher as the musical guest. That is quite a lineup for him. Surprising though, that he's leaving in the middle of the season, not the first person to do that doesn't happen all that often. So be a big night for Bowen Yang.

That's among the topics we will talk about in our next hour of the --