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The Story Is with Elex Michaelson
Trump DoJ Releases Epstein Files, Including Photos & Court Documents; Lawmakers Slam Trump's DoJ For Not Releasing Full Epstein Files; U.S. Strikes Targets Inside Syria Tied To ISIS. Aired 1-2a ET
Aired December 20, 2025 - 01:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[01:00:00]
ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN HOST: -- Emmys. Yang's last SNL show will be on Saturday, hosted by his co-star in "Wicked", Ariana Grande, with Cher as the musical guest. That is quite a lineup for him. Surprising, though, that he is leaving in the middle of the season, not the first person to do that. It doesn't happen all that often. So, it'd a big night for Bowen Yang. That's among the topics we will talk about in our next hour of "The Story Is", which starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "The Story Is", Epstein's files released, sort of. Elie Honig, Ron Brownstein join us to discuss the many, many redactions, some say are against the law.
REP. ROBERT GARCIA (D-CA): They have not produced actually what they were required to do by today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "The Story Is", football fever, Pro Bowler and Super Bowl Champ Keyshawn Johnson with us live to talk both the Pro and College playoff picture.
"The Story Is", Bowen Yang suddenly leaving SNL. What's going on there? Hollywood reporter Rebecca Sun with us live.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Live from Los Angeles, "The Story Is" with Elex Michaelson.
MICHAELSON: Welcome. I'm Elex Michaelson. "The Story Is", the release of thousands of documents from the Epstein files. The batch of documents appears, at least after early reviews, to include no major smoking guns, relatively few major revelations, but there are many more files that have not been released. Democrats and some Republicans slamming the Department of Justice for not releasing all the files like they were supposed to by law today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): Massie and I were actually in this morning talking, and we said, look, we're willing to give them some benefit of the doubt as long as the quality of the release is substantive. But what we found out is the most important documents are missing. They've had excessive redactions, and the central question that Americans want to know - who are the other rich and powerful men on the island, raping these young girls or covering up - has not been answered.
GARCIA: This is absolutely breaking the law. I mean, they have not produced actually what they were required to do, which was all the files by today in a way that was searchable for the public and that is not what's the case. What we have, essentially, is, one, we have a group of documents that have already been released to the public. And so, there is -- it could be even more than half of the documents we're reviewing right now, have already been released. That already does not count for new information. Then we have of what appears to be new, including some photos and other documents, those are highly redacted, and we don't really have any explanation as to why they've been redacted or what is actually there in those documents.
And so, we have right now are what we're seeing is not transparency. This is not what the law passed. This does not meet the subpoena that the Oversight Committee has in place. What it is, it is defying the Congress and quite frankly, defying what the president signed into law in releasing all of these files.
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MICHAELSON: So, here is some of what those redactions look like, big black marks covering information that the Justice Department decided should not be revealed. DoJ says it's trying to protect innocent people mentioned in the files. The Deputy Attorney General on Fox News -- or on ABC, I should say, insisting it is not a cover-up to protect President Trump or anybody else.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TODD BLANCHE, U.S. DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: There is no effort to hold anything back because there is the name Donald J. Trump or anybody else's name, Bill Clinton's name, Reid Hoffman's name. There is no effort to hold back or not hold back because of that. And so -- but again, we're not redacting the names of famous men and women that are associated with Epstein.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: The files include newly released photos of former President Bill Clinton. They show him in a jacuzzi and a pool, as well as with Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. Clinton's spokesperson says the former president did not know about Epstein's crimes and cut off the relationship before those crimes came to light.
Joining us now is CNN Senior Legal Analyst and former Federal Prosecutor, Elie Honig. Elie, welcome back to "The Story Is".
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Great to be with you, Elex. Thanks for having me.
MICHAELSON: So, there has been all this build-up, and there is all these documents. Is there any there, there? HONIG: Well, there is a lot of stuff there. Let's start with that, right? There are hundreds of thousands of documents. But I think the two biggest questions that I had remain unresolved. The first one is, are there other people who could be charged criminally, who engaged in this crime, with Jeffrey Epstein and with Ghislaine Maxwell, who have not yet been charged? I don't think we have an answer to that still as of this point.
And then the second big question, which I don't think this document production answers, is, why was Jeffrey Epstein given that sweetheart deal by federal prosecutors in Florida back in 2007? We did learn from this document disclosure that he had several victims coming forward, going to the FBI, going to the prosecutors as far back as the 1990s, yet, those prosecutors in 2007-2008 chose to give him a state-level plea where he only did 13 months, much of it on work release, and that's another big question that, in my view, remains outstanding.
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MICHAELSON: In terms of what we did see, obviously, there is a lot of redactions, but in terms of the images we saw and everything else, did anything stand out to you?
HONIG: Well, I mean, there is obviously some very notable names, recognizable faces. There are photographs showing former President Bill Clinton. But the problem is they're completely out of context. We don't know where they were taken. We don't know when they were taken. We don't know the circumstances. So, I think people need to be very careful about drawing conclusions. This may point up the need for some sort of follow-up testimony, whether it's from Todd Blanche or someone who is more familiar with these documents, because a lot of the documents we saw, photographs and others, really lack meaning unless they could be put in context. What we have here is basically just a massive document dump where you can click and take a look, but the viewer is sort of left in the dark as to the nuances of it.
So, if I'm a member of Congress right now, I'd be thinking about, well, I'm going to need people here to come in and explain this to us.
MICHAELSON: Yeah, and it certainly seems like the members of Congress that we've talked to are not too happy, doesn't feel like they feel like the spirit of this law was followed.
HONIG: Yeah. Well, to that end, I mean, there is a couple things. First of all, the law said that within 30 days, which is today, by 11:59 p.m. today Eastern Time, DoJ had to turn over all of the documents. DoJ basically said, whoops, we couldn't make it on time. They said they'll get it done in the next two weeks. But the bigger deal to me, Elex, is that DoJ said, we are holding back. We are not giving you what we call deliberative process documents, meaning internal DoJ documents, where prosecutors are considering what are the strengths and weaknesses of this case? Should we charge it? Should we plead it out, etc.? DoJ's view is, we don't have to turn that over. But the law itself, it's a very short law, actually says quite explicitly that those documents do need to be turned over. So, I know Congressman Ro Khanna has been out there saying that he and
Thomas Massie, two of the primary sponsors of this deal in the House, one Democrat, one Republican, feel like DoJ has not lived up to what the law requires. So, again, we'll see if Congress is willing to push back or if they're willing to just sort of accept less than what the law actually calls for.
MICHAELSON: And the law did also not really lay out specific consequences for not following the law --
HONIG: Yep.
MICHAELSON: -- which is part of this battle that we've seen throughout the Trump administration, if you do something that isn't legal, but nobody calls you on it, and there is no consequences, it doesn't matter.
HONIG: Yeah.
MICHAELSON: Elie Honig, thank you so much. Appreciate your long day of work on this. Thanks for being with us.
HONIG: Appreciate it.
MICHAELSON: Last hour, I spoke on "The Story Is" live with a Jeffrey Epstein survivor named Alicia Arden, who appeared with her attorney Gloria Allred. Alicia told me what she hopes to get from the files.
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ALICIA ARDEN, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: I only just want transparency, like they say it's coming out of all of the alleged pedophiles that may have done something to these girls. All the names need to come out, not that they -- a picture doesn't say anything. If there is a picture of them, OK, that doesn't mean that they did anything wrong, but if they did something wrong and their names are in the actual files, then that needs to come out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: CNN Senior Political Analyst Ron Brownstein live now to explain all of this. Ron, what do you make of this? We've been hearing this build-up forever, and not a lot there, it seems like.
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST, & COLUMNIST, BLOOMBERG OPINION: Yeah. It's kind of the absence of news is really the news, in the sense that the administration keeps responding to this in a way that is guaranteed to keep the story and the controversy going. I mean, to some extent, Trump is kind of being victimized by the same tactics and dynamics that he has spurred at other times in his career. If you're promoting a conspiracy, if you're -- in his case now, he is dealing with a conspiracy theory, it's really hard to prove the negative. I mean, no matter what you put out, there is going to be people who question whether there is more somewhere else.
But the fact that this is so partial, so redacted, so uninformative, I think really exposes them, as Pam Bondi's meeting with the influencers did to the charge that they're simply not being forthcoming.
MICHAELSON: Does it matter politically? I mean, is this an issue that people, enough people care about, or are they so focused on affordability, or other things? Is this actually driving people?
BROWNSTEIN: Look, I think we've learned that the primary concern of most voters, at least the voters who really decide things who are the fulcrum of our elections, are their own material circumstances. There is no question about that. But part of the problem that Trump has in the second term is this widespread sense is that he has not focused enough on that problem.
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I mean, you get significant majorities in polls saying they do not believe he is focused on the most important issues facing the country, and then you get something like this, in which they seem to again be covering it up on the same day that he is putting his name on the Kennedy Center, in violation of the statute creating it, prosecuting his enemies, threatening war with Venezuela. I mean, it seems to be he is doing everything, I think, for voters who felt they were electing him to address above all their cost of living concerns. I think it seems to many of them that he is doing anything else but focusing on that.
MICHAELSON: It seems like for years, even before he was a candidate, Donald Trump has made the argument that the whole system is corrupt, that they're all bad guys.
BROWNSTEIN: Yeah.
MICHAELSON: And so, I'm going to be your bad guy, fighting for you, and you may not love me, but at least you know that I'm fighting for America first. That's been his argument. So, it's interesting tonight they're highlighting the Bill Clinton photos from the White House press accounts, trying to show --
BROWNSTEIN: Right.
MICHAELSON: -- look how bad he is. I mean, does that then make the point we're all bad, so I didn't do anything wrong?
BROWNSTEIN: Right. Well, look, I mean, Trump's problem is that even without a specific allegation, a credible, specific allegation of misbehavior with underage girls, he looks really comfortable in this milieu, right? I mean, The New York Times reporting this week on how close he and Epstein were, their friendship, I think, clearly through multiple sources, which was much more extensive, elongated than Trump has acknowledged. And so, he is just like part of this world. And you're right. I mean, I think you accurately described the core of his appeal to many voters. To paraphrase FDR, he may be an SOB, but he is our SOB, and in this, he looks just like kind of those elites who are unaccountable, seem to think that they are above the law. It's just not a good look.
Everybody who is in these photos, I think we talked about the last time, we discussed this, everybody who is in these photos looks bad. I mean, there is no way to be part of this world and to come out without being besmirched by it. But only one of all of those people is currently the president, and I think just by that fact alone, he has the most exposure here.
MICHAELSON: And we should be clear that just because you're in a picture with somebody does not mean that you were doing anything illegal, does not mean you were involved with any of the illegal behavior that was happening --
BROWNSTEIN: Yeah.
MICHAELSON: -- or they even knew about it. It just means --
BROWNSTEIN: Right.
MICHAELSON: -- that you were friends with the guy.
BROWNSTEIN: You were part of a world. I mean, the question is whether it was really a plot? How long will you be part of this world and not realize that something unusual was going on? I mean, that really is the question. And I -- again, if you look at the reporting in The New York Times this week, a terrific story, I mean, there was no question that Epstein was kind of assorted character. And I can't -- neither one of us can say how much of that people knew specifically. But I think the more time you spend in this world, I think you had to have at least some understanding that there were unusual aspects to it. Let's put it that way.
And you kept being part of it. Many of these people kept being part of it for a long time. And as I said, it's not a good look for anybody who is, I think, in this orbit. The difference is that only one of them is currently the President of the United States and facing those questions.
MICHAELSON: And it's clear that at least some people liked being in that orbit for that reason. We just don't know who --
BROWNSTEIN: Yeah.
MICHAELSON: -- and after the disclosures today, we still don't know who, and that's --
(CROSSTALK)
BROWNSTEIN: And that's really the point.
MICHAELSON: Right.
BROWNSTEIN: Yeah. That's really the point. I mean, they keep prolonging this story. As I said, it's really hard to prove a negative against people who think they're being misled. So, there may be no revelations. They could ultimately extinguish all of this. But the fact that they are continuing to withhold documents and to redact so heavily the documents they have, I think, just guarantees that each of these disclosures, rather than getting them closer to putting it away, inflames the situation. And as -- there're probably more questions tonight than there were, yes, last night at this time, right? I mean, that's kind of the bottom line in where they are.
MICHAELSON: Ron Brownstein, this will definitely be part of the Donald Trump presidency story when that book is written and placed behind you on the bookshelf. We --
BROWNSTEIN: Yeah.
MICHAELSON: -- appreciate you joining us. Have a great weekend.
BROWNSTEIN: Thanks for having me. Yeah. Thank you.
MICHAELSON: Rhode Island's Attorney General says forensic tests have confirmed the I.D. and connections of the suspect in the shooting deaths of an MIT professor and victims at Brown University.
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PETER NERONHA, RHODE ISLAND ATTORNEY GENERAL: Ballistics evidence now matches him to both shootings, both in Massachusetts and Rhode Island, and DNA evidence matches him to Rhode Island.
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MICHAELSON: The suspect, Claudio Neves Valente, killed himself in a self-storage facility in New Hampshire.
CNN's Brian Todd following the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With the manhunt finally over in the Brown University and MIT professor shootings, many questions still remain as to a clear motive in the killings. Providence Chief of Police Colonel Oscar Perez believes the killer was very strategic in his measures to dodge detection before the shootings.
COL. OSCAR L. PEREZ JR., PROVIDENCE POLICE CHIEF (on camera): I mean, he was communicating with apps. He was utilizing certain ways to drive and picking certain neighborhoods to drive around. He wasn't picking main streets. I would assume that he was probably trying to avoid, like certain license plate readers.
TODD (voice over): The gunman, 48-year-old Claudio Manuel Neves Valente, was found dead late Thursday in a New Hampshire storage unit from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. He is originally from Portugal, and his last known address was in Miami.
PEREZ JR. (on camera): We also learned that he had an address here in the city of Providence. We led us to believe that he was pretty familiar with the east side, with Brown University. TODD (voice over): And they know that Neves Valente attended Brown roughly two decades ago as a PhD student studying physics, but he only stayed for about a year, enrolling in the fall of 2000 and leaving in the spring of 2001. At one point, he was even assigned an office in the same building where the shooting took place.
CHRISTINA PAXSON, PRESIDENT, BROWN UNIVERSITY (on camera): I think it's safe to assume that this man, when he was a student, spent a great deal of time in that building for classes and other activities as a PhD student in physics.
TODD (voice over): A post pulled from an Internet Archive first reported by The New York Times, but which could not be independently verified, appears to show a post left by Neves Valente on a Brown physics message board after he left the school, part of it was left in Portuguese and was translated to, quote, "The greatest liar is the one who is able to lie to themselves. These exist everywhere, but they sometimes proliferate in the most unexpected places."
Authorities also know Neves Valente attended the same university in Portugal as the MIT professor he killed. In an interview with Publico, a newspaper in Portugal, former classmate Felipe Moura describes his impressions of Neves Valente as aggressive. Quote, "He had a confrontational personality in class. In other words, the other good students would intervene, ask questions, but Claudio liked to say that he was the one who knew." And in a Facebook post in Portuguese, Moura wrote, "Claudio was obviously one of the best, but in class he had a great need to stand out and show that he was better than the rest."
As for the man who helped break the case wide open, a man known only as John in the affidavit, who posted on Reddit writing in part, quote, "I'm being dead serious. The police need to look into a gray Nissan with Florida plates, possibly a rental. That was the car he was driving." That post eventually leading investigators to his car.
PEREZ JR. (on camera): It was a great thing that he was actually paying attention and that he was actually observing his surroundings. He helped us out a lot. He was able to break this case.
TODD (on camera): Police Chief Oscar Perez says, even though authorities have had the shooter's name since Wednesday, they have not yet made contact with any relatives he may have in the U.S. or Portugal, but he says Portuguese police are helping in the investigation.
Brian Todd, CNN, Providence, Rhode Island.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MICHAELSON: Thanks to Brian.
U.S. and Russian negotiators prepare for new talks on Ukraine, as Russia's president sends a message about what could come next if there is no peaceful solution. That story, plus Keyshawn Johnson talking sports, straight ahead.
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MICHAELSON: "The Story Is", in Syria, where the U.S. has struck a number of targets linked to ISIS.
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MICHAELSON: President Trump says the strikes are retaliation for the attack that killed two American service members and a civilian interpreter back on December 13th. One official tells CNN, the strikes hit dozens of targets, including infrastructure and weapons. Syria says it is, quote, "steadfast in its commitment to fighting ISIS". The gunman who killed the two U.S. service members was part of Syria's Internal Security Service. His connections to ISIS not clear. The group has not claimed responsibility for the attack.
A special envoy for Russian President Putin is expected in Miami for more talks with the U.S. on Ukraine. A Russian source told CNN Friday, the envoy was on his way to the U.S. to be briefed on revised proposals to end the war. A Ukrainian delegation wrapped up its own talks with U.S. and European negotiators in Miami on Friday. They have agreed to continue talking. U.S.-Russian talks will come on the heels of President Putin's end-of-the-year news conference on Friday. Mr. Putin says Russia wants peaceful solution in Ukraine. But as Fred Pleitgen reports, he also spelled out his vision of an alternative.
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FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Vladimir Putin's big year-end press conference lasted well over four hours, and he addressed questions from people around Russia on various topics, but also international questions as well. Of course, many of them pertaining to the conflict in Ukraine. The Russian leader saying that Russia remains committed to diplomacy and wants a peaceful solution to the conflict in Ukraine. At the same time, the Russian leader also very bullish, saying that if there is no peaceful solution, that Russia is willing to continue what it calls its special military operation for an extended period of time.
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (Interpreted): There won't be any operations if you will be respecting us, treating us with respect, observing our interests, just as we constantly tried observing your interests. If you won't be tricking us, defrauding us, as you did with NATO expansion to the east. You said that there won't be eastwards expansion of NATO, not for an inch.
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That is almost a direct quote.
PLEITGEN (on camera): The Russian leader also praised the Trump administration and said the diplomatic efforts that the Trump administration has undertaken to end the conflict in Ukraine, but also to improve relations with Russia, have been immense. At the same time, he also said that right now it's still very much up in the air whether or not there are going to be improved relations between Russia and Western nations. Of course, one of the things that the Russians have been doing is they've been ripping into European countries, into America's European allies, and saying that these countries are not interested in a peaceful solution to the Ukraine question.
Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Moscow.
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MICHAELSON: Thank you for watching "The Story Is". For our international viewers, "Inside Uzbekistan" is next. For our viewers here in North America, we've got a treat. Keyshawn Johnson is in the house. We're going to talk sports. Maybe we'll talk Uzbekistan. Who knows? It's going to be a lot of fun. We have a lot to get into. Who is the best NFL team? Who is the best college team? What does he think of Puka Nacua? And what about those Trojans? And he is a children's author now. Stay with us.
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MICHAELSON: The Alabama Crimson Tide is heading to the Rose Bowl after making a huge comeback in the first round of the College Football Playoff. The Oklahoma Sooners held an early lead Friday night, but Alabama fought back, took home a 34 to 24 win. Ninth ranked Alabama will now face top-ranked Indiana in the Rose Bowl on New Year's Day. Here is a look at the matchups set for Saturday. First up is Miami and Texas A&M, then Tulane and Ole Miss, with James Madison and Oregon wrapping up the first round.
It is a perfect weekend for NFL fans, as the Philadelphia Eagles take on the Washington Commanders on Saturday. If the Eagles win, they will be the first team in over 20 years to clinch back-to-back NFC East titles. It's the last team to do it, Philadelphia Eagles back in 2004. Meanwhile, one of the biggest games of the weekend doesn't even happen on Sunday. The Bears are going up against the Green Bay Packers in Chicago on Saturday in a matchup that could potentially decide the NFC North title.
Joining me now to discuss all this, our sports panel for this week is just one guy, because you don't need anybody else. You got him in the house. Keyshawn Johnson, former Pro Bowler, Super Bowl champ. USC, great, all of them. Welcome back to CNN.
KEYSHAWN JOHNSON, FORMER NFL PLAYER: Well, thank you, man. Thanks a lot. Congratulations on your new show, by the way.
MICHAELSON: Thank you.
JOHNSON: I really have enjoyed it, watching it in the green room so far. MICHAELSON: I mean, you got the Russian news, the Trump news, and you want to weigh in on?
JOHNSON: No, I got it all. I got it all. I think you're going to shock some people over time. I think you'll do a tremendous job. But no, I did get some Trump news. I got a little bit of everything.
MICHAELSON: Yeah. Yeah. So, you want to weigh in on the Trump Kennedy Center news?
JOHNSON: Oh, man, you think about it. So, when I saw it, I saw it, I guess maybe yesterday, the day before or whatever, that he was changing the name, add his name --
MICHAELSON: Yeah.
JOHNSON: -- Trump Kennedy Center, and he put his name first. And I was sitting there scratching my head. And I'm laughing because I'm like, wait a minute, this has got to be fake. This got be real. It can't be real.
MICHAELSON: I'm sorry.
JOHNSON: But it's real, right?
MICHAELSON: It's real.
JOHNSON: So, in the end, I'm sitting there and I'm saying, OK, he is the President of the United States. He surely would like to have his own center. Why not just build your own center rather than split it with your name in the Kennedy name, which obviously, I'm sure the Kennedy family --
MICHAELSON: Yeah.
JOHNSON: -- they're not pleased, and many --
MICHAELSON: They're not.
JOHNSON: -- people in the political world are pleased that he did such a thing.
(CROSSTAK)
MICHAELSON: Why she couldn't the way that he did it, though?
JOHNSON: Well, I mean, I don't know. I mean, I guess I don't know all the ins and the outs --
MICHAELSON: Yeah.
JOHNSON: -- of who spends the money, who is --
MICHAELSON: Right.
JOHNSON: -- supposed to bill what. MICHAELSON: Congress spent the money. Yeah. Yeah.
JOHNSON: But clearly --
MICHAELSON: Right.
JOHNSON: -- he has the power --
MICHAELSON: Yeah.
JOHNSON: -- if he chooses to - -
MICHAELSON: Yeah.
JOHNSON: -- build his own somewhere and -- but --
MICHAELSON: Yeah.
JOHNSON: -- splitting the name was a little wild to me.
MICHAELSON: Yeah. All right. We do it all here. We also do sports. So, let's do some sports.
JOHNSON: Yeah. Absolutely.
MICHAELSON: Big weekend for football. We're nearing the end of the --
JOHNSON: Yeah.
MICHAELSON: -- NFL season, getting ready for the playoffs. What team most impresses you?
JOHNSON: Well, I think it depends on the division, right?
MICHAELSON: Start with the --
JOHNSON: You're talking NFC. I still love the Rams --
MICHAELSON: Yeah.
JOHNSON: -- despite the debacle that kind of happened to them last night. I still love the Rams. I like Seattle. I just need Sam Darnold to cut down on the interceptions. Philadelphia is always a favorite of mine. They just got to get it going, get it going. And then the sneaky fourth team there for me would be Chicago.
MICHAELSON: The Bears.
JOHNSON: The Bears are sneaky.
MICHAELSON: Really?
JOHNSON: Yeah. Their favorite at-home --
MICHAELSON: Favorite of millions. JOHNSON: -- tomorrow against Green Bay, they get out of there. And think about it. You start looking at seedings, there is not a lot of teams that want to go to cold weather. You don't want to go to these cities that's cold. You just don't want to do it. And Chicago can put themselves in perfect prime position to have a home playoff game in the freezing cold. So, they're a sneaky one.
Now, when we switch to the AFC --
MICHAELSON: Yeah.
JOHNSON: -- the Denver Broncos, the Buffalo Bills, another one in the cold weather. I mentioned Denver. The Chargers are there, but the Chargers are most likely going to have to travel to one of these cold weather-type cities, either Pittsburgh or Buffalo or a Baltimore, or even --
MICHAELSON: Yeah.
JOHNSON: -- to the degree at some point, maybe a Denver. There is no West Coast teams. Jacksonville maybe. You're not going to get in a dome in Indianapolis. So, it's kind of - -right now --
MICHAELSON: Yeah.
JOHNSON: -- you -- there is a lot of people kind of just stacked up against each other. But if I had to choose, right now, I would say NFC, Philadelphia, coming out of the NFC, OK --
MICHAELSON: Repeating. OK.
JOHNSON: -- repeating to come out of NFC, even though their season has been like this and the Denver Broncos coming out of the west.
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MICHAELSON: All right. There you go. And as we know, the Chargers, both the San Diego and LA Chargers, have usually struggled in cold weather over the years. The LA Rams --
JOHNSON: Yes.
MICHAELSON: -- Puka Nacua --
JOHNSON: -- who is a phenomenal wide receiver, had the best game of his career, and then said some stuff he probably shouldn't have said. So, he --
JOHNSON: So --
MICHAELSON: -- on a podcast --
JOHNSON: Yes.
MICHAELSON: -- talked about the Rams -- or a stream --
JOHNSON: Yes.
MICHAELSON: -- talked about the ref saying that they were the worst.
JOHNSON: OK. You mean that. I forgot.
MICHAELSON: And then he put this out, can you say I was wrong? Appreciate you stripes for your contribution." That was talking about the -- he also made a trope that was antisemitic, which I'm sure he didn't know about, right? I'm sure Puka Nacua didn't know about that, but he didn't know that the ref screwed up. He got fined $25,000 from the NFL because of the comments about the ref.
JOHNSON: So funny. Let's start with the referees first. You really can't say anything about him, even though, as a player, you get mad, because sometimes the referees and I agree with him. It feels like they do things to get their name mentioned on television by Troy Aikman and Joe Buck and some of the --
MICHAELSON: Do you think the refs do that?
JOHNSON: It just feels that way.
MICHAELSON: Yeah.
JOHNSON: Even as a player for myself --
MICHAELSON: Yeah.
JOHNSON: -- one of the things that my head coaches, one of my head coaches just always say is, don't leave the game in the referees' hands. These guys want to be famous, and it makes you feel that way. Now, I'm not saying that's what they do deliberately, but sometimes you look up, you go, are you serious with that call right there? And so, you have into that.
Now let's dive into what went on with the -- I think it was TikTok that he was on or something along those lines.
MICHAELSON: It was on live stream.
JOHNSON: Live stream. Do I believe that Puka knew that he was doing that? I don't believe that at all.
MICHAELSON: No. I don't either.
JOHNSON: And it was so crazy. I got a really close Jewish friend in Jordan Schultz. I was talking to Jordan today, and I asked him about that, and I asked him, was he offended by it? And he was like, yeah, I was offended by it, but once I learned --
MICHAELSON: Yeah.
JOHNSON: -- the whole story, I was like, Oh, he didn't know. I was like, no. How could you possibly know? If you told me --
MICHAELSON: As a jury myself who spent time with Puka, he didn't -- JOHNSON: Elex, if you told me certain people --
MICHAELSON: Yeah.
JOHNSON: -- and then you said, would you think he knew? Then I would be able to say that character, that person --
MICHAELSON: Yeah.
JOHNSON: -- he knew exactly what he was doing. But I don't believe Puka knew at all. He apologized, and it is hurtful. There is no question about it. That's why he apologized. And I think for the most part, it's probably brushed underneath the carpet at this point in time.
MICHAELSON: Who is going to win the College Football Playoff? Who is your number one pick?
JOHNSON: Man, I got Ohio State.
MICHAELSON: OK.
JOHNSON: OK? Then I like Oregon. Ohio State, Oregon, Indiana is an interesting one.
MICHAELSON: Yeah.
JOHNSON: I don't believe that -- I like Georgia, but I -- for some reason, I don't believe they have enough offense to firepower at times. I mean, obviously hey got the kid Zachariah Branch who was transferred from USC. I don't know how the hell he got out of USC to go to Georgia.
MICHAELSON: Our beloved USC.
JOHNSON: I have no idea how he got out of here. But it's Ohio State for me.
MICHAELSON: OK.
JOHNSON: I feel like they're going to finish the deal.
MICHAELSON: And you're a children's book author now. Congratulations --
JOHNSON: I appreciate it.
MICHAELSON: -- on your new book. We put it up on the screen so people can check it out, "Once Upon a You".
JOHNSON: Yes.
MICHAELSON: What's the backstory here?
JOHNSON: "Once Upon a You" is written by myself and Bettina Bush. Bettina is a long time animated voice-over. She does commercials and a whole bunch of Rainbow Brite, Rugrats, McDonald's commercials, nationwide commercials. So, over the years, we were trying to put a project together, and we said, hey, let's write a children's book together. But our schedules are so much we couldn't really get it done.
MICHAELSON: Yeah.
JOHNSON: Eventually, our schedules kind of changed. So, we was able to get it done. And it's really about -- it's a children's book. But the interesting thing is, it relates to everybody, adults and everything, because it talks about life. It talks about the ups and the downs, the dos and the don'ts, how people try to tell you what you could do in life and what you can't do.
So, for me, growing up, because I grew up -- how I grew up in South Central Los Angeles, I was told many times, you're not going to be this, you're not going to be that, or you have to do this or do that. Instead of following your own dreams --
MICHAELSON: Right.
JOHNSON: -- and desires, people want you to follow theirs, and it's kind of telling a young audience of kids, and I would say their ages range from about two to three up until like 10-years-old. But obviously, adults, once you see it, you go, OK, I was on a roller coaster ride.
MICHAELSON: Yeah.
JOHNSON: You think about some of the things, whether it was USC, whether it was working at your old job, and now finally getting this opportunity here where many people probably told you, I want you to go sell cars somewhere when you were in college.
MICHAELSON: Sure.
JOHNSON: I want you to do something else, and you're like, no, I'm going to follow my dreams and --
MICHAELSON: Yeah.
JOHNSON: -- I'm going to do what I want to do, and that's what it's all about. So --
MICHAELSON: Yeah.
JOHNSON: -- rush out there. Christmas time is coming. Get some books for the kids.
[01:40:00]
MICHAELSON: I first interviewed with them 14 years ago, and finally got the job. So it's something that you got to believe in yourself.
JOHNSON: Yeah. You got to believe --
MICHAELSON: Yeah.
JOHNSON: -- in yourself, because there is twists and turns in our lives every single day, Elex.
MICHAELSON: Fight on.
JOHNSON: Yeah.
MICHAELSON: I don't like to say at USC, fight on. One of the all-time greats, Keyshawn Johnson. It's so cool to have you here on "The Story Is".
We will be right back, talk some entertainment after this.
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MICHAELSON: One of Saturday Night Live's most popular comedians is leaving the show after a seven-year stint. Bowen Yang joined the sketch comedy series as a writer back in 2018, nominated for five Primetime Emmys. Yang's last SNL show will be on Saturday, hosted by his co-star in "Wicked", Ariana Grande, with Cher as the musical guest.
To discuss all the latest entertainment news, Journalist and Cultural Critic Rebecca Sun is here live. She is a former Senior Editor at The Hollywood Reporter. Rebecca, welcome to "The Story Is" for the first time.
REBECCA SUN, JOURNALIST AND CULTURAL CRITIC: Thank you so much. Good to be here.
MICHAELSON: So, Bowen Yang is probably like the most popular, best- known, maybe other than Kenan Thompson --
SUN: Yeah.
MICHAELSON: -- a member of the cast. Middle of the season. What's the real story here?
SUN: It is pretty rare. It's been done before.
MICHAELSON: Yeah.
SUN: Cecily Strong, very recently, also left midseason. I'm guessing, because he was so beloved, Lorne probably gave him like a special arrangement.
[01:45:00]
Bowen Yang is increasingly booked and busy. Obviously, he is in "Wicked". He is in "Wicked" part two. He has a very popular podcast, "Las Culturistas".
MICHAELSON: Yes. SUN: And so, he is got a lot going on. I'm guessing that Lorne was
like, give us a few months. Start the season. Let's not add you to that huge exodus of names. There was a lot of turnover like -- and look, him getting to leave like on the episode with his bestie Aryana, with Cher as a guest --
MICHAELSON: Right.
SUN: -- it's like a gay man's dream.
MICHAELSON: I mean, it's like the perfect thing to have Cher give you the walkout music.
SUN: A swan song? Yes. Please.
MICHAELSON: So, I guess it is sort of like, what else can I do after that? Meanwhile, back in the box office --
SUN: Yeah.
MICHAELSON: -- Avatar, which somehow is still going, I felt like kind of over this a long time ago, but yet it's coming back, and clearly makes a ton of money.
SUN: Yes. I mean, Avatar, and so brace yourself, James Cameron has said there will be five total. So, this is part three. It's going to outlast us all.
MICHAELSON: Yeah.
SUN: But -- yeah. I mean, the first two Avatars each made over $2 billion worldwide. They are the number one and number three highest grossing movies of all time. So, somebody is watching them, even if it's not you and me.
MICHAELSON: You're over it.
SUN: The last one I saw was in 2009 --
MICHAELSON: Wow.
SUN: -- the OG, and I was like, what a beautiful screensaver. Like, so expensive.
MICHAELSON: Yeah. But -- I mean, he loves it, and clearly there is a big market for it, and it's probably going to be number one at the box office, right?
SUN: For sure --
MICHAELSON: Yeah.
SUN: -- it will be the biggest movie of the year. I mean, I took a look at the numbers, and if it holds true, China loves it. People love it internationally. And so, it's probably going to make at least $2 billion, which will make it the number one movie of 2025. MICHAELSON: Sydney Sweeney, who is very popular in terms of gossip magazines --
SUN: Yeah.
MICHAELSON: -- has not been so popular with the box office. She is back at the box office this weekend.
SUN: Yeah. Yeah. She is in "The Housemaid" with Amanda Seyfried. It's kind of like an erotic thriller of sorts. I think if you're old enough to remember the 90s, think "Single White Female", "Hand That Rocks the Cradle", that sort of thing. And she kind of needs a win at the box office. Nowadays, she is more known for political controversy than anything else. And so, she was hoping to maybe be in the awards conversation earlier this year with this movie called Christy, which only made $2 million total. So --
MICHAELSON: It is one of the worst performing movies ever.
SUN: Look, if the "The Housemaid" does badly, it will be like her fourth flop in a row, to be honest.
MICHAELSON: Yeah.
SUN: It's not great.
MICHAELSON: Yeah. So, we'll see what happens in terms of that. One movie that clearly was not a flop is Die Hard, and there is this whole controversy over whether it's a Christmas movie or not. Macaulay Culkin weighed in, of course. Here is what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is Die Hard a Christmas movie?
MACAULAY CULKIN, ACTOR: No, it's not. It's based around Christmas. Don't fight. Fight me on the moon. It's based around Christmas. But if it was also St. Patrick's Day, it would still be -- it would work. But you couldn't do like Memorial Day "Home Alone". Like, no, it doesn't work that way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think Arbor Day works even a tree house.
CULKIN: I'm just saying is that, like, listen, I'm kind of the godfather of Christmas nowadays. So, yes, my opinion has some sway in this argument.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: Do you agree? Is Christmas -- is Die Hard a Christmas movie?
SUN: With all due respect to the godfather of Christmas, because Home Alone is absolutely a Christmas movie.
MICHAELSON: Yes. SUN: I am pro -- I am -- Team Die Hard is a Christmas movie. Here is
why. John McClane is only in L.A. He is only at Nakatomi Plaza because they're having a Christmas party. There are no company parties for Arbor Day. There is no other holidays that -- why would he be there? Why would his wife be there? It's because of Christmas. So, in my opinion, Die Hard is a Christmas movie.
MICHAELSON: What is the best Christmas movie of all time?
SUN: Ooh, for me, my kneejerk -- my first thing I think about is a Christmas story. You'll shoot your eye out, kid. It's just an important life lesson that we have to remember.
MICHAELSON: OK. I'm voting for Home Alone. I love that one as well.
Rebecca, thank you so much for coming in. It's fun to chat with you.
SUN: Likewise. Thanks for having me.
MICHAELSON: Coming up, we've got more. Stay with us. And a reminder, Sunday night, a back-to-back specials on CNN at 08:00 p.m. Eastern, "The Whole Story" with Anderson Cooper; Rob Reiner, his life and legacy. Then at nine, from the CNN archives, an encore presentation of Larry King Live, featuring a wide-ranging interview with the late, legendary actor and director.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[01:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MICHAELSON: After a seven-year long legal battle, the world's richest person has won a $139 billion pay package from Tesla. Shareholders first approved the plan for Elon Musk back in 2018, but a lower court ruled that the compensation was too large. Now, Delaware's Supreme Court has restored the deal, saying blocking it would have left Musk unpaid for years of work. Separately, Tesla shareholders approved a potential $1 trillion package for Musk earlier this year.
"The Story Is" in Miami, where former boxing heavyweight champion Anthony Joshua defeated social media personality Jake Paul in Netflix's latest live event. Joshua delivered a devastating right hand in the sixth round, down goes Paul for that knockout, Friday night in front of the crowd, streamed live for Netflix's 300 million subscribers. Paul was no match for Joshua's size and experience. The social media star got knocked down twice in the fifth round. Didn't land many punches. Remember, Joshua is 6 foot 6, 240 pounds. I mean, just very different in terms of size there, and eventually it was too much. First loss for Paul.
Before we go, we've got some exciting news to share. I will be hosting CNN's special coverage of the Rose Parade alongside my colleague Coy Wire. [01:55:00]
We'll be live in Pasadena for all of it. Magic Johnson is the Grand Marshal. Join us New Year's Day starting at 08:00 a.m. here on the West Coast, 11:00 a.m. on the East Coast. It is the first time that CNN has ever carried the Rose Parade, and it's the 137th edition of the Rose Parade.
Thanks for watching. We'll see you next week. We start early next week at 11:00 p.m. for a three-hour edition of "The Story Is".
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