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The Story Is with Elex Michaelson

UAE: Defending Against Iranian Missile And Drone Attacks; Trump Calls Latest Military Strikes On Iran A "Love Tap"; Officials Worldwide Scramble To Track Deadly Infections; Rubio And Pope Leo Discuss Issues Of Disagreement; Biggest Issues When Dealing With Housing Affordability. Aired 12-1a ET

Aired May 08, 2026 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Elex Michaelson, live in Los Angeles. Here's what's ahead on "The Story Is."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: The story is fresh strikes on Iran. Why President Trump says they're, quote, love taps.

The story is cordial conversation. That's how the Vatican is describing a meeting between Secretary of State Marco Rubio and Pope Leo the 14th. Religious talk show host, Katie McGrady, with us live.

And the story is helping more people afford homes. Jonathan Scott, the co-star of HGTV's "Property Brothers" franchise, sits down with me and offers some bold ideas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.

MICHAELSON: Our top story tonight is a new exchange of fire between the U.S. and Iran in the Strait of Hormuz and fresh drone and missile strikes by Iran against the United Arab Emirates.

U.S. military says it launched self-defense strikes in four areas along the Iranian coast, targeting missiles and drone launch sites, command and control locations, and other assets.

Central Command says the strikes are in retaliation for Iranian attacks on three U.S. Navy guided missile destroyers that were transiting the Strait of Hormuz. Now, none of those ships were actually struck.

CENTCOM says the U.S. does not seek escalation, but remains positioned and ready to protect American forces. Iranian state media released video a short time ago, claiming to show missiles launched towards U.S. ships. CNN cannot verify its authenticity or when that video was recorded.

Meanwhile, Iran says it is still reviewing that one-page memorandum aimed at ending the war, a response had been expected on Thursday. No response yet.

President Trump posting on Truth Social that Iran better get the deal signed fast or, quote, "We'll knock them out a lot harder and more violently in the future."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They trifled with us today. We blew them away. They trifled. They called it a trifle.

I'll let you know when there's no ceasefire. You won't have to know. If there's no ceasefire, you're not going to have to know. You're just going to have to look at one big glow coming out of Iran.

And they better sign their agreement fast.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Could you give us an update on what is the latest in those talks you said yesterday?

TRUMP: No, it's going -- the talks are going very well, but they have to understand if it doesn't get signed, they're going to have a lot of pain. They're going to have a lot of pain. They want to sign it. I will tell you. They want to sign it a lot more than I do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: We have live team coverage. CNN military analyst Colonel Cedric Leighton is standing by, but we begin with senior international correspondent Ivan Watson in Hong Kong.

Ivan, what are you hearing about Iran attacking the UAE tonight?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, it's a pretty violent day over the Gulf. In the last couple of hours, the -- the UAE's ministry of defense announced that its air defenses are working right now, dealing with missile and drone attacks originating from Iran, that the air defense systems are intercepting ballistic missiles, cruise missiles and drones.

And this is the second time in around five days. On Monday, the UAE put out a similar statement and said that on that day, it engaged at least 12 ballistic missiles, three cruise missiles, and four drones that have been fired from Iran, causing at least three moderate injuries.

So, the UAE, which has been a hit hardest by Iran throughout this two and a half month war, coming under fire repeatedly this week, despite what is supposed to be a ceasefire.

And you add that on top of the fact that there's been an exchange of fire involving the U.S. Navy and Iran. The U.S. Central Command saying that it -- that as three destroyers, U.S. Navy destroyers were going through the Strait of Hormuz, as President Trump has put it, they were sailing out of the Gulf, that they came under attack from a number of threats, including drones and small boats and multiple missiles, and then that they were not harmed at all and then carried out retaliatory strikes, as they've put it, hitting mainland Iran.

[00:05:13]

The Iranian Armed Forces spokesperson kind of reversed the narrative saying that Iran came under attack and that Iran retaliated against U.S. targets east of the Strait of Hormuz and in the Gulf of Oman.

All of that adds up to a lot of kinetic activity, a lot of lethal force being used. We're still going to wait to find out what happened in the UAE.

But important to note that U.S. officials, including President Trump, are seeking to downplay this, saying that the ceasefire is still in effect. And in some of the words that President Trump used, he's calling this a trifle. He's calling this love taps. So is seemingly still wanting some kind of path to diplomacy amid this deadly use of force that's being used around the Gulf in the last 24 hours.

MICHAELSON: Yes. Ivan, what's a love tap?

WATSON: A cruise missile, I would argue, Elex, is not a love tap. A suicide drone is not a love tap, nor are airstrikes. And that's what is not adding up in the rhetoric that we're hearing right now.

And add on top of that, you know, the fundamental problem here that's come into effect since the U.S. and Israel launched their war on Iran on February 28th, is that the Strait of Hormuz is still closed.

And CNN has seen this kind of form that Iran is putting out there to ships that want to transit the -- the -- the Strait of Hormuz. Forty questions that they have to answer, identifying the nationality of the ship, the owners, the cargo on board.

Iran is trying to create a new system for transit of commercial ships through the Strait of Hormuz. And he's starting to send that out to companies that want to get their ships out. There are nearly a thousand ships stranded right now. And this is what the U.S. is struggling with, trying to unravel a new reality on the ground or on the seas that Iran is trying to impose right now.

And as long as that's not fixed, those energy prices are probably still going to go up. And in this part of the world, Asia, it is a crisis that economies are dealing with that is only getting worse right now.

MICHAELSON: And a lot of those Asian markets don't have a lot of leverage and are so reliant on this decision by the United States.

Ivan, thank you. And I guess the love tap is sort of dependent on what you're into. Thank you for joining us. Let's bring in retired U.S. Air Force colonel, CNN military analyst Cedric Leighton. All right. Let's build that question to you. What is a love tap? What does that mean? And what does the president really sort of getting at by calling it that?

CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes. I'm kind of with Ivan on the love tap definition here, Elex.

But, you know, when it comes to what I think he's trying to say, what I think President Trump is trying to say is that this is a -- a -- a measured response toward what the Iranians are doing.

And what they're saying is, yes, you can attack a few things here, but we're going to respond. And the hope is on the part of the administration is that when the U.S. response is done, that everything is basically over and done with.

Now, that depends really on the reaction of the Iranians. They may choose to basically stop their actions and to let things kind of proceed in a diplomatic fashion, or they may end up saying, you know what, you attacked us after we attacked. We're going to attack again. And so that remains to be seen.

And, of course, that all depends, I guess, on their assessment of the U.S. proposal and whether or not they're going to agree to that one- page memorandum.

MICHAELSON: Because it seems like the -- the president is -- is going out of his way to try to protect this idea of a ceasefire, right, and say, this is -- this is a love tap, but we're still negotiating. The war isn't back on.

I mean, it seems like that's what's really going on here, right?

LEIGHTON: Yes, I would agree with that, Elex. And, you know, it's -- it's very important, I think, for the U.S. administration to continue with the ceasefire.

What they want is they want to wind this thing down as much as they possibly can. And, of course, they'll need the Iranians to cooperate in this way. And if the Iranians don't cooperate, then that's going to be trouble, not only for the U.S. administration, but really for the world economy. And it's going to be a -- a really significant thing.

So, the hope is, at least, you know, on the part of the administration, that the Iranians will understand that we're trying to really ratchet things down. And if we do that, then they hope that there'll be some kind of accommodation that's reached.

But, yes, you're exactly right, this is something that where they want to de-escalate, and this is their way of doing it.

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MICHAELSON: What -- what do we know about the targets that the U.S. hit today and what potential targets might come next? LEIGHTON: Yes. So the types of targets that were hit, they include such things as some of the island installations like Qeshm Island and Bandar Abbas. Bandar Abbas is actually the naval headquarters for the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps Navy. And, of course, it's strategically located right at that bend in the -- in the Strait of Hormuz. So these are significant targets.

And what this was is basically a continuation of the target list. And they basically picked these targets because they wanted to go in and say, OK, we can hit these things and we can hit other things like command and control nodes, weapons systems, all of these different areas. And that idea was to basically send a message to the Iranians.

We can go further than this, but right now, we want to kind of minimize what we're doing. But it definitely caused some consternation in Iran and that I think was actually the goal as well.

MICHAELSON: Yes. Well, it'll be really interesting to see what happens next.

Cedric Leighton joining us live from New York. Cedric, thanks so much. Always great to see you.

LEIGHTON: Great to see you too, Elex.

MICHAELSON: Public health leaders accuse U.S. government and CDC of not doing enough to communicate with Americans about the deadly Hantavirus outbreak.

President Trump now says a full report is expected in the coming day and that, quote, we hope the outbreak is under control.

World Health Organization says five confirmed infections have been identified among people linked to this cruise ship. As authorities race to trace and contain the outbreak, dozens of people have already traveled back to their home countries, including a handful of Americans.

We're told they are being monitored in the States that you see right here. So far, there are no reports of them showing any symptoms of Hantavirus.

The cruise ship, where several dozen people are still confined, is now heading to the Canary Islands. Spanish government insists they will have no contact with locals before being transferred to their home countries.

Three people from the ship have died from Hantavirus. World Health Organization says that while it expects more cases to emerge, this outbreak is nothing like COVID-19 and there is no evidence of a widespread transmission risk.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. MARIA VAN KERKHOVE, DIRECTOR WHO, DEPARTMENT OF EPIDEMIC AND PANDEMIC THREAT MANAGEMENT: This is not the start of a COVID pandemic. This is an outbreak that we see on a ship.

But this is not the same situation we were in six years ago. It doesn't spread the same way. Like coronaviruses do, it's very different. It's that close, intimate contact that we've seen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: CNN's Brian Abel picks up the story from there.

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BRIAN ABEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A race to contain a deadly virus. Doctors, Wednesday, fly in a passenger from the quarantine ship MV Hondius to Amsterdam, then taken to a German hospital for observation and testing.

It's among the latest steps by health experts to trace and stop the spread of the Hantavirus.

DR. AILEEN MARTY, WHO, SENIOR ADVISER, INFECTIOUS DISEASE OUTBREAK RESPONSE: It is incredibly important to be isolating these patients. These patients should not be walking around without a mask, even though they feel healthy.

ABEL (VOICE-OVER): Before the severity of the situation was understood, at least 30 passengers from around the globe disembarked from the boat at various ports and are now trying to be tracked down.

WHO alerting these 12 countries of nationals who got off the boat at Saint Helena Island.

In the U.S., officials confirm two passengers are being monitored in Georgia, another in Arizona. And "The New York Times" reports California residents were on board.

Other American passengers reportedly returned to Texas and Virginia. Symptomatic patients in Switzerland, South Africa, and the Netherlands are receiving care.

DR. ABDIRAHMAN MAHAMUD, WHO HEALTH EMERGENCY ALERT AND RESPONSE OPERATIONS: This one show that if we follow public health measures, we can break this chain of transmission and this doesn't need to be a large epidemic.

ABEL (voice-over): Spain has accepted the World Health Organization's request for the ship to arrive in the Canary Islands, so the remaining 146 people from 23 different countries can get off, return home and be monitored.

Despite the frantic work, WHO's director general insists countries are prepared and the risk of further spread is minimal.

TEDROS ADHANOM GHEBREYESUS, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION, DIRECTO- GENERAL: WHO assesses the public health risk as low.

ABEL (voice-over): Brian Abel, reporting. (END VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAELSON: Still ahead, U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio looks to patch things up with Pope Leo. Details on what they discussed in a report from the Vatican, next.

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MICHAELSON: U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio met with Pope Leo at the Vatican on Thursday. And the two discussed some of the issues and disagreements in recent weeks that led to a historic period of tension between the Trump administration and the first American pontiff.

CNN's Christopher Lamb reports from the Vatican.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think broadly speaking, the meeting was productive. I mean, Secretary of State Marco Rubio was inside the Vatican for, you know, around two hours. So, it wasn't just a meeting with Pope Leo, it was also meeting other Vatican officials.

I saw a Vatican official just a few moments ago, and I asked him how he thought it went, and he said, good. And I think the fact that this meeting happened is going to be of some encouragement for the Holy See and the Pope who clearly want to have a channel of dialogue with the Trump administration.

Pope Leo, after all, is the first American pope. And he is someone who does seek common ground with leaders from across the world.

[00:20:01]

We know from a readout from the secretary, from the State Department's office that the meeting discussed the situation in the Middle East and a shared commitment, quote, to peace and human dignity.

And I think there is something that perhaps the Vatican feel it can work with. But there is, of course, these unprecedented tensions between the Pope and the President of the United States who has launched really extraordinary attacks against Pope Leo, mainly because of his opposition to the war in Iran.

And, of course, the meeting today will probably need to be followed up by other meetings to try and mend fences and rebuild the relationship.

Of course, a lot depends on how President Trump reacts. Will he continue to attack the Pope or will there now be more harmony? I think that's still very much in the balance.

But clearly today, a meeting that has in some ways reestablished a channel of dialogue at a time of extraordinary tension between the papacy and a U.S. administration. (END VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAELSON: Our thanks to Christopher Lamb for that.

Katie Prejean McGrady is CNN's Vatican analyst and host of the Katie McGrady Show on SiriusXM, the Catholic Channel. Welcome back to "The Story Is."

KATIE PREJEAN MCGRADY, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Yes, thanks for having me.

MICHAELSON: So, Secretary Rubio and Pope Leo had a bit of a different feel than Pope Leo and Vice President Vance. How do you see that?

MCGRADY: I mean, photos tell us a lot. There seem to be a few more smiles in the handshakes. And one thing, and this is super inside baseball, but it is notable, you know, where a person sits when they meet the Pope? Are they on the other side of the desk? Are they kind of on the -- on the side looking at him more directly, you know, almost than a friendly posture?

And Rubio sat to the side when Vance met with them one-on-one last year for their little brief convo, after all the pleasantries, he was sitting directly across.

Now, that could just be Leo's a little more comfortable in his own skin as pope. Or it was a -- a gesture and everything is very pointed. The hospitality that was shown to Marco Rubio was very distinct. He got a nice long Swiss guard down the corridor. He was -- he was brought into the office and so they rolled the red carpet out.

So, I think it seemed warmer. At the same time, you know, he gave kind of a silly gift to the pope. It didn't show much thought.

MICHAELSON: Yes.

MCGRADY: And they were definitely conversations where they probably had divergent views. And I'd -- I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that.

MICHAELSON: Well, let -- let's talk about the gift. Explain what each of them gave each other.

MCGRADY: I -- I think it's -- it's -- historically, gifts are exchanged. This is something that always occurs. For the record, anybody can meet the pope and bring him a gift. But when it's a dignitary, it usually is something symbolic from a nation to the Holy Father.

And so Rubio said, you know, I know you're a baseball guy, but I -- I -- what do you get the person who has everything? And that's true. The Pope does kind of have access to anything and everything he would want. So he gave him a paperweight, a crystal football.

It just -- it didn't seem particularly thoughtful, especially because he made note of you're more of a baseball fan than a football fan. It's also interesting, Vance gave the Pope a Bears jersey a year ago. So I -- like maybe they want him to come to an NFL game. I -- I don't know.

But he gave -- so -- so the Holy Father gave Marco Rubio an ink pen made from olive wood. And this is actually quite customary. The pope will frequently give heads of states or dignitaries a symbol of peace. So whether it's an olive branch or something made of olive wood.

And -- and papal gifts, I mean, they're kind of complicated. They require a lot of conversation. I would have loved to see like something from America 250, whether it was an American Revolutionary War artifact or -- or maybe something from the -- the recent Artemis mission.

It just it seemed a little thoughtless. And who knows? It'll probably end up in the auction. You know, a lot of these papal gifts, they end up getting auctioned off among Vatican staff for charity. So we'll have to keep an eye out on where the paperweight ends up.

MICHAELSON: You're saying that's not going on his desk. So --

MCGRADY: I don't think so.

MICHAELSON: President Trump talked publicly about what he would want Marco Rubio to say. Here's this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Tell the pope very nicely, very respectfully that Iran could not have a nuclear weapon. So when he comes to their defense.

Also, tell the pope that Iran killed 42,000 innocent protesters who didn't have guns and who didn't have weapons. Tell that to the pope.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: So, we know that President Trump calls a lot of people, a lot of journalists all the time. He's got lots of people's numbers.

[00:25:05]

Do we know of any conversations between the president and the pope? I mean, couldn't the president just say that to the pope himself?

MCGRADY: I think he could. We don't know. We don't know if there has been a call. I mean, I think if there had been, we would know.

It's not like President Trump keeps those things particularly secret. And, you know, Vatican would probably have also given a readout.

I do find that notable. And it's -- it's coming up more and more in conversation a year in. And at first, he congratulated him. Like the day Leo was elected, the -- the president said something about, oh, I hear he's a great guy. And then, of course, had his brother over to the Oval Office. So, it is odd. At the same time, Leo has a phone too. And this is not me saying the Pope should be the one to call the president. But it is to say the Holy Father has received U.S. officials. Of course, we have an ambassador to the Holy See, Brian Burch.

So, there is a diplomatic relationship, but not a particularly chummy one and say the same way that Leo has frequently spoken to Volodymyr Zelenskyy about peace in Ukraine.

I wonder if maybe this was the opportunity to strengthen that tie. Rubio going to Rome. But of a statesman, he's obviously devout Catholic. The gift aside, perhaps there was a conversation of obviously they want him to visit at some point. I don't know if that's going to happen anytime soon, but maybe a phone call could happen.

I -- I want to note too, really quickly, this visit was supposedly scheduled before the tiffs of the past few weeks. And it was scheduled around his actual anniversary. He was elected on May the 8th. In fact, it was the first thing Rubio said. You know, it was about a year ago when I first met you.

And so I wonder if maybe, at first, this was kind of like a congratulatory, hey, we've got some humanitarian things in common. And then it became this, let's smooth the waters. I think a phone call and a visit could be helpful. I don't necessarily know if I'm very hopeful that it will happen.

MICHAELSON: It would certainly be interesting if it did. But as far as we know, he's not going to be in America for the 250th anniversary on July 4th. We know that much, at least.

Katie Prejean McGrady, thanks for joining us. We really appreciate it. And, of course, you can check her out on SiriusXM radio.

Protests and chaos in Tennessee's state capital after lawmakers pass a new congressional map, eliminating all Democratic representation, at least likely. My political panel joins me after the break to discuss that and more, next.

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MICHAELSON: Chaos erupted at Tennessee's Capitol after Republican lawmakers approved a new congressional map.

Tennessee is the first state to pass new congressional districts since last week's Supreme Court ruling that weaken part of the Landmark Voting Rights Act. Tennessee's new map eliminates the only Democratic held House seat in the state. The district centered on the majority black city of Memphis. It's currently represented by Steve Cohen, who spoke to CNN just after that vote.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE COHEN, U.S. HOUSE DEMOCRAT: This seat is an African-American majority seat. It's elected -- it's elected me. And it shows the African-American population votes on issues and they choose the candidate of their choice.

It's a beautiful example of how America can work, races working together and having a good Democratic process and they totally tore it asunder.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: Let's discuss this and other headlines in politics with political strategy -- strategist and author Oliver Libby and Orange County Republican Party Chairman Will O'Neill. Welcome to you both.

Oliver is the author of the new book, "Strong Floor, No Ceiling." We will talk about that book in just a moment, but let's talk first about what's happening in Tennessee.

Will, as a Republican, is this a good thing or do you think that maybe Democrats should have one seat in the state?

WILL O'NEILL, CHAIRMAN, REPUBLICAN PARTY OF ORANGE COUNTY, CALIFORNIA: Well, as a Republican in California, I will tell you redistricting is terrible. And -- and I'll say that across the nation.

I do not support this holistic approach to redistricting where people are choosing who reprent -- who they're going to represent as opposed to people trying to choose, you know, who represents them.

We saw it in California. And if you're going to oppose it in California, you should be consistent across the country.

I remember standing in the middle of a street in Orange County, California, one side would be on one congressional district, one side would be on -- on the other. Voters didn't care. That's what they selected and those people, literal neighbors, will be in different congressional districts this fall.

MICHAELSON: Well, I mean, isn't that true of every congressional district? There's some point there's a -- there's a there's a border, right?

O'NEILL: It's pretty rare to see it across the street from each other. But no, I mean, this -- this is bad policy.

MICHAELSON: Yes. Your thoughts on what's going on here.

OLIVER LIBBY, POLITICAL STRATEGIST: I mean, this is part of an ongoing national tragedy and it started a long time ago. We have sorted ourselves geographically and digitally into ever more safe districts, safe spaces where no one disagrees.

And look, Democrats have spent a lot of time trying to fight gerrymandering, tried to propose a national ban, went all the way to the Supreme Court, as you know.

But at the end of the day, I think Democrats also ran out of patience. If it's going to be a redistricting war, then Democrats will engage. And then we end up in this race to the bottom. And -- and that is very sad.

I mean, in America, we should want the best ideas to win. And I think we believe in competition in this country. And if there's no competition, the best ideas don't win and the country loses.

[00:35:06]

MICHAELSON: You're a New Yorker, you're a Californian. Here in California, there's a debate now among some Democrats. Should we have a 52 to nothing map where it's all Democrats, right?

Because if they're going to do this in Tennessee and other states are going to do this, why shouldn't we respond?

How do you feel about something like that? Should Democrats fight fire with even more fire?

LIBBY: Look, Democrats have actually oftentimes been slower off the mark to respond when there is a fire versus fire situation. This is one of those situations where national policy or the courts ought to have stepped in because, look, at the end of the day, we want there to be the ability to have debate at the federal level.

And if the House goes all one way because the Republicans are better street fighters and are able to turn some of these states all red, then obviously the response is to try and turn them all blue.

But again, at the end of the day, this is a freight train that I actually don't think most people want. I think even the American people sense that this is not a fair way to do things. But at the end of the day, you have to win to enact your policies.

MICHAELSON: And well, to that point, though, we see, Will, this is winning in states, one here in California, one in Virginia, winning in Florida. I mean, it seems like people are getting behind this because we're so tribal right now.

O'NEILL: We are tribal and it gets away from principles. And so when you are, as the majority, actively disenfranchising people because you have the power at the state legislatures, that is a real problem.

And so in California, when they ran what are really local issues, but they ran it nationally, that is a -- that is going to be real detrimental. I mean, it is something where millions of Californians are Republican. They voted for Republicans. They are now only going to have four seats out of 52. That is a bad sign. And it's true across the country.

MICHAELSON: Right.

LIBBY: I think it was interesting, though, that -- that Democrats chose to take the votes to the people, at least in Virginia and California.

You know, again, at the end of the day, I think --

MICHAELSON: Had to.

LIBBY: We had to, right? But I find that very interesting and the people spoke, right? Because at the end of the day, you want those policies that are going to attack things like affordability. I think --

O'NEILL: See I -- see, I actually don't agree with that at all. I think that that is the idea that, well, we'll just pass it on to voters and let the majority disenfranchise the minority.

I think that is one of those things where you are now setting people, neighbor against neighbor. And I just say, as a matter of culture, that is not a good system.

MICHAELSON: Let's talk about your book, "Strong Floor, No Ceiling."

This is something that is sort of your guiding principles, potentially, for the Democrats.

Hakeem Jeffries, the Democratic minority leader, who wants to be the Speaker of the House, is kind of adopting this as the language, potentially, the -- the actual phrase for where the Democrats go in the midterms.

What do you mean, strong floor no ceiling?

LIBBY: In America, we all, whether, you came across, you know, the border, you know, two weeks ago, or whether you're a Mayflower family, you grow up hearing about the American dream. And the American dream is -- is failing. It's not only failing in people's minds, it's failing in reality. People are not able to leave their kids better off. People are buried in debt. No one can afford life right now in this country. And so we ought to find a way to unlock the American dream once again.

And in my view, it's blending two ideas that for too long have been thought about as in opposition. You want to have a strong floor below which people don't fall. And that floor has planks we all know. It's affordability. It's -- it's education and healthcare. It's good paying jobs, housing and safety in your home.

But in America, that's not enough. You don't just hand that out to people and it would be expensive to do that. You have to keep the economy growing. You have to grow the pie. And you have to make sure that people once again believe that if you work hard and play by the rules, there is no ceiling to what you're going to accomplish. That's the way that American dream should be reignited.

MICHAELSON: You think -- what -- what do you think of that? If the Democrats run on that, what do you make of that as a -- as a policy?

O'NEILL: I think it's fantastic policy, frankly, as a matter of talking about wanting people to succeed and seeing the no ceiling part of it. It's -- it's -- it's great. My -- my concern, and I hope that you make sure this doesn't happen, my concern is that you have a lot of Democratic politicians right now who are taking the cover of the book and using that as a phrase when they're talking about it.

But some of them don't seem to have actually read the book quite yet on the policy side. And if they come in and actually start adopting policies, because what the -- here's the praise I will give for Oliver's book.

Oliver is spending a lot of time talking about outcomes. And he spends a lot of time making sure we're talking about and making sure policies work, not the intentions behind them. And we're seeing too many people right now talking about throwing money at something.

Well, and homelessness, you know, we've spent billions of dollars here in California only to see it get worse.

Oliver's book says, no, no, no, no, what we need for America is to make sure if we're going to have faith in institutions, we need those institutions to work. So my goodness, I hope you're successful.

If you could come grab like the farthest left reaches in California governance and just bring them back toward the center, you will have succeeded in my book.

MICHAELSON: And part of what you talk about also is that Democrats, a lot of them right now are just running against President Trump for the midterms, but aren't necessarily saying what they would do, what their plan is.

[00:40:00]

LIBBY: You're right on, Elex. I -- I think anger and frustration and opposition to the president, probably, and I don't know if you'd agree, could get you a narrow victory in the House and probably not much else.

In every instance in American history where there's been a big wave, a real historic election, there's been a positive message, I call it hope and a plan. And we all the -- the -- the names of those things are familiar to us, right? It's -- it's, you know, the great society, the new deal on the Republican side, the contract with America.

And so if -- if folks want a seismic shift in policy, it has to come from a place of positivity and telling people what you are going to do for them.

And by the way, just for -- to -- to clarify, I didn't write this book for any one political party. I hope that it unifies a lot of people in the middle of this country, including folks who are politically homeless, who like neither party very much, into belief that their government can work for them again.

MICHAELSON: And you got quite the endorsement from Will O'Neill.

LIBBY: There you go.

MICHAELSON: With the blurb for the paperback version.

LIBBY: Let the country be more like this.

MICHAELSON: Yes. Will O'Neill, Oliver Libby, that's what we try to do here on "The Story Is" every night.

We'll be right back with more right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:45:44]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I always look plans bring us a new challenge.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Always dude.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Always up for a challenge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: That's a clip from the HGTV series, the "Property Brothers: Under Pressure."

Jonathan Scott is one half of the wildly popular franchise. He joined me earlier this week at the annual Milken Institute Global Conference here in Los Angeles for a panel discussion on housing affordability.

We discuss how high construction costs, lengthy approval processes and local zoning policies are impacting the housing crisis across the U.S.

You can watch that discussion in full for free at milkeninstitute.org.

Afterwards, we spoke more about all those issues.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAELSON: Jonathan Scott, welcome to "The Story Is." Great to be with you.

JONATHAN SCOTT, HOST "PROPERTY BROTHERS": I love what you've done with the place.

MICHAELSON: Thank you.

SCOTT: This is great.

MICHAELSON: It means a lot coming from you.

Affordable housing. Biggest issue in the country right now. What do you think is the -- the biggest thing that needs to be done?

SCOTT: It's the biggest subject of conversation. I'll tell you what, the biggest issue of my opinion is ignorance.

Right now, the -- some people don't understand the problem and they think that the housing crisis is really something that affects, you know, people who are homeless or people -- you know, they're wanting to build affordable housing.

Does that mean you're going to bring crime into my community and bring down my property values? Not at all.

I mean, I -- I have a -- a fundamental philosophy that people should be able to live where they work. And I think, you know, if you think about it, affordable housing usually it's teachers, it's police officers, you know, fire -- it's people in all different types of careers, but housing has become unattainable. The costs and the cost to renovate too, everything is so volatile right now that we're even seeing a slowdown in a lot of renovations.

So when I talk about housing, it's partially a supply problem. We need more supply. We're four million units short of a healthy, healthy housing supply in the country.

In addition to that it's the financial, the cost of debt. You know, there needs to be something that allows developers to be incentivized to build these projects, streamline the process. There's so much red tape right now.

If I was building the exact same two apartment buildings, one of them using public monies, public funding mechanisms, one just paying for it myself, the public monies one would cost me about 40, 50 percent more. It's about --

MICHAELSON: Forty, 50 percent.

SCOTT: Yes.

MICHAELSON: Wow.

SCOTT: Think of how many more units we could build if we, you know, found a way to streamline these things. So it's a supply issue. It's a financial issue, but it is an issue that affects literally every person.

MICHAELSON: What are the sort of the -- the most obvious regulations maybe to cut?

SCOTT: Well, one thing that I always had a -- a challenge with is when you're building these new buildings, first of all, the -- when you're hiring the trades and everybody who's building the building you have to have fair wages for everyone.

I pay fair wages to our -- our crews. Everyone's paid fair wages, but there's -- these additional regulations that make it very complicated to calculate that.

The cost of debt is a huge thing, so the longer this stretch on. Sometimes it can take years to get approvals because any new development for affordable housing, people show up in droves to say, I don't want it in my backyard.

No way. It's going to be a crime ridden, cracked in. That's not at all what these buildings are like.

In fact, even some of the people I work with, I took them to these existing -- because they're nonprofits that run these buildings once they're up and running.

I took them there to show them. These buildings have -- they'll have tutors on staff so that, you know, if there's a single mom with a child in school that needs help, they've got somebody.

You know, wellness, they provide wellness services. They provide access to all sorts of things. So depending on who they're bringing into that accommodation, they've got different services that are provided.

And, you know, I think if you take it even back further how it affects everybody else, there was a staff that came out that said, this will be the first -- our kids -- my kids are 9 and 10. This will be the first generation who cannot afford home ownership, period. And that is crazy.

The number one contributor to financial security in the future but also just being stable in general is housing. And so people are spending more than 30 percent of their income on their mortgage or their rent. It's out of whack. Something's out of whack.

MICHAELSON: So, how do we change the thinking in terms of, yes, in my backyard, no in my backyard?

[00:50:00]

SCOTT: Well, one, I think is helping people understand who we're talking about, who -- who's affected by the problem.

And, you know, if you think about a teacher for example, would you want your child being educated by a teacher who's having to drive two hours to and two hours from work every day, they must be exhausted. That time could be better spent in -- in improving those relationships with the kids and maybe creating extracurricular programs. So that's a prime example.

If you -- if you know a teacher or you know a healthcare worker or you know somebody who's traveling an hour, two hours just to get to work, that -- they're affected by it.

MICHAELSON: Sure.

SCOTT: If you're looking at -- you know a lot of people as well at home, they can't afford, you know, if they have to re-buy their mortgage and now all of a sudden their property taxes have increased.

Insurance has increased and that's actually insurance is what's priced a lot of people out of certain communities because insurance is increasing at a higher rate than anything else. So all of these things, it's -- it's one big -- there's not one solution that solves it all, but I think we need to step back, take the politics out of it and just understand what would have the best need.

There -- there are cities that are doing it right. You look at, you know, places like Atlanta is seeing success. Denver is seeing success.

Even over in Finland, they've almost completely reversed the homelessness challenges that they've had because of some of the new technologies they've implemented, the way they're approaching it.

But they've discovered that providing housing for people who are coming in and out of homelessness, that's affordable, is less expensive than providing emergency shelter and services for somebody who winds up on the street.

MICHAELSON: And -- and in terms of the Pacific Palisades, Altadena rebuilding now.

SCOTT: Yes.

MICHAELSON: You're involved with that. A family member of yours lost their home.

SCOTT: Yes.

MICHAELSON: So you're now rebuilding the home but in a different way.

SCOTT: Yes.

MICHAELSON: Talk about how we got to think about building different using technology in a different way.

SCOTT: Oh, my gosh. The -- the thing that's so frustrating is when I hear people talk about, you know, construction, how we should be building homes and they've never -- they don't understand how to build a home.

They also don't understand that a lot of times contractors, architects, subs, they get caught in this funnel of how they've always done it and they don't really want to learn something new.

There are technologies now that are virtually fireproof, hurricane- proof, earthquake-proof. RSG 3-D is this like reverse ICF, it's like a rebar system with a polystyrene core and you spray concrete on the inside and the outside, it locks it together. Never susceptible to termites. Well, things like that.

Well, it's incredible that it only, on the average house, costs 10 percent more than if you're building with wood. Yet, you never have all these other issues. You don't have to worry about it.

Same with floods, you know, the second highest insurance claim in most areas is flood from a burst pipe or a laundry hose that slips out, floods your home while you're away. Well, there's a $500 device now that goes on your main water line and makes that virtually impossible from happening.

So all of these things -- the average homeowner is not expected to know this stuff, but absolutely your contractor should be saying to you, hey, this is something we might want to pursue.

And if, you know, especially if you're in a fire zone, there should be no other choice. You should be building with a technology like this. If you're outside of a fire zone, then you can make that decision. But every home is susceptible to a flood.

So I think those sorts of A.I.-driven leak detection systems like Fin (PH) are so -- like, for me, to think that people aren't automatically putting this in, the only explanation is that they don't know about it.

MICHAELSON: Right.

SCOTT: Because nobody would say no, there's something that will prevent them from being -- having their life uprooted.

MICHAELSON: Well, after watching this interview, now they know.

SCOTT: Now you know. And then I think what we should start doing is like the Oprah thing where you get a leak detection. You get a leak detection. Everywhere I go, I should be handing these things out.

MICHAELSON: As exciting as a car, a leak detection.

SCOTT: Yes. I mean Zoe makes fun of me because like I -- my opinion, a good time for a Friday night is resealing your stone countertops. I mean, guys, life of a contractor.

MICHAELSON: Thank you so much.

SCOTT: Nice to see you.

MICHAELSON: Appreciate it. Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAELSON: Our thanks to Jonathan Scott. "Property Brothers: Under Pressure" Airs Sundays at 9:00 P.M. on HGTV and streams on HBO Max. They are both a part of Warner Brothers Discovery, CNN's parent company.

We'll be right back with the next hour of "The Story Is."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:55:56]

MICHAELSON: NASA's Curiosity Rover has been roaming the Martian surface for more than 13 years. But it recently encountered a problem it's never seen before. Curiosity's drill got stuck as it was boring into a rock. NASA scientists spent days vibrating the drill, spinning it in an effort to dislodge the rock.

After five days, they finally found the perfect angle to get the stone to fall. Twenty-eight pound rock hit the Martian surface and fractured into many pieces. And Curiosity continued its mission to drill into other nearby rocks.

Talk about remote work. You can't exactly go and mess with it.

This Saturday, be sure to watch CNN's new Original Series, "K- Everything," hosted by Daniel Dae Kim.

In the premiere episode, he explores South Korea's booming music industry with K-pop royalty, Psy. Remember him, from "Gangnam Style?" And visits the studio behind some of the country's biggest hits. That's "K-Everything," this Saturday, right here on CNN.

And, yes, Daniel Dae Kim was great in "Lost," if you remember him from that.

Thanks for watching. Stay with us. The next hour of "The Story Is" starts right now.