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The Story Is with Elex Michaelson
Trump - Left Instructions To Strike Iran If Assassinated; Satellite Images Show Iran May Be Rebuilding Nuclear Sites; Mediators Work To Get U.S.-Iran Talks Back On Track; Trump Abruptly Refuses To Sign Bipartisan Housing Bill; Videos Raise Questions About I.C.E. Description Of Shooting; Aired 12-1a ET
Aired July 11, 2026 - 00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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BORIS SANCHEZ, ANCHOR: For the full story go to CNN.com/heroes. Thank you so much for watching. The story with Elex Michaelson is next.
ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN HOST: I'm Elex Michaelson live in Los Angeles. Welcome to "The Story Is."
"The story Is" diplomatic scramble. As mediators try to prevent another showdown between the U.S. and Iran new satellite images, pained exclusively by CNN, reveal activity at Iran's damaged nuclear facility.
"The Story Is" conflicting statements. An attorney says the facts shared by witnesses to the deadly Houston shooting do not match I.C.E.'s version of the story, ahead with street camera video shows.
And "The Story Is" housing affordability. A bipartisan bill just became law just seconds ago. Will it be enough to help young Americans become homeowners?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Live from Los Angeles, "The Story Is" with Elex Michaelson.
MICHAELSON: The top story is, international diplomacy with mediators working to get talks between the U.S. and Iran back on track. Fighting has paused for now amid a flurry of diplomatic efforts.
In the coming hours, Iran's Foreign Minister is expected to meet with his Omani counterpart. Afterwards, U.S. officials expect Iran to declare the Strait of Hormuz open and confirm that commercial vessels will not be attacked. Shipping through that waterway has again slowed to a crawl.
An official told CNN, the start of nuclear talks depends on safe passage in that strait. Officials said any final deal must see Iran turn its enriched uranium over to the U.S. All this as President Trump tells The New York Post that he had left instructions to strike Iran if he were assassinated. And in a social media post a short time ago, the President said, "A 1,000 missiles are aimed at Iran to decimate and destroy the country if he is killed." Meantime, exclusive satellite imagery obtained by CNN suggests that Iran may be trying to rebuild its nuclear facilities. CNN Investigative Correspondent Katie Polglase, has the story.
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KATIE POLGLASE, INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This image, one of several shared exclusively with CNN, may show signs of Iran attempting to rebuild its nuclear facilities. This is one of several locations across the country where we've identified recent activity, both in nuclear and missile sites. The activity in nuclear sites in particular raises questions as to whether Iran violated the memorandum of understanding it signed with the U.S. in late June, even before President Trump seemed to signal its end by launching fresh strikes.
In it, Tehran had agreed not to procure or develop nuclear weapons. This site in Parchin is believed to be holding explosive material for nuclear weapons. Before the U.S.-Israeli strikes, Iran built this concrete shield around it, a sign of its importance. It was then struck multiple times during the U.S.-Israel bombing campaign this year. The targeting was precise. You could see the holes left behind by bunker busting bombs.
Now a new imagery from June and July analyzed by CNN in conjunction with the Institute for Science and International Security, we can see Iran appeared to be taking steps to repair and reconstruct the site. You can see temporary covers placed over the impact holes. Then weeks later, with the memorandum still in effect, the covers are removed and replaced with a mesh. Concrete mixing trucks are visible nearby. Experts say these trucks are a sign the Iranians are intending to seal the holes.
For weeks, we've only had glimpses of what's been happening on the ground inside Iran. Providers have been withholding satellite imagery across the region at the request of the U.S. government. Now those restrictions are loosening, and we've been able to see new images across Iran of which sites they started to clear and repair first. A sign perhaps of which they see as the most important.
This is Pickaxe Mountain, another site where Iran is believed to be advancing its nuclear capabilities deep underground. And in recent weeks, vehicles could clearly be seen going in and out of the tunnels. Experts told CNN this was likely a violation of the term signed with the U.S., which required Iran to maintain the status quo regarding their nuclear program.
In contrast, other prominent nuclear sites did not seem to have been touched, like Isfahan here, Bordeaux here, and Lantz. There has been activity at some missile sites. The U.S. and its allies have long been concerned about Tehran's missile capacity, and the latest imagery suggests Iran has already started repairing some storage sites. This is new paving laid out at Tabriz missile base in recent days. And at another missile base in Kermanshah, we can see excavators and tunnel entrances being cleared.
Lastly, we've also spotted repairs at air bases in recent days. You can see a crater being filled in here at Tabriz Air Base. With U.S. resuming its attacks on Iran, a peace agreement is seeming increasingly out of reach. Katie Polglase, CNN, London.
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MICHAELSON: Stephen Collinson is a CNN Politics Senior Reporter. His latest analysis asked, what options does Trump have now in Iran? Not many, and they're all bad.
Stephen Collinson joins us live now from Washington. Welcome to "The Story Is."
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: Hi.
MICHAELSON: That report from Katie was pretty dramatic looking at those images. How did you see that, and how do you think the Trump administration sees that?
COLLINSON: Well, President Trump argued that his war was such a stunning success, because he, unlike any other President, had acquired an undertaking from Iran to never seek a nuclear weapon. That's what the President has been saying. These pictures appear to show that Iran is back working on its nuclear sites. That is not just an infringement of a memorandum of understanding, which was never really enforceable, but it casts complete doubt on everything the President has said about the outcome of this war at a time when the ceasefire and the MOU is already crumbling.
It also, I think, Elex, shows us that, the key thing here is the nuclear question. That is what the United States ostensibly went to war, in pursuit of ending Iran's chances of creating a nuclear weapon. All of the fighting and the negotiation and the clashes in recent days have been over the Strait of Hormuz, which was open before the war started. So we're right at the first step of this, which is trying to get the strait open, and that has proven to be impossible.
Think how difficult it's going to be to start talking about these nuclear sites, which Iran appears now to be trying to reconstitute. And we don't even have any visibility into those sites because there's no international inspectors. That is going to be the point of the talks on the nuclear issue. So we are so far away from even getting to talk about the key point in this war.
MICHAELSON: Well, just to hammer that point home, this war has cost billions and billions of dollars. It's cost a lot of lives in Iran, some American lives as well. At the start of this war, the Strait of Hormuz was open. It's now closed. We were told at the start of the war that part of this was about regime change. We've changed from a father to a son. It was about making Iran's nuclear capacity go away. We now see them trying to rebuild their nuclear capacity. What has all of this accomplished? And is the United States in a stronger or weaker position now after spending all these billions of dollars?
COLLINSON: Well, I think the answer to that is the United States is in a weaker position because for all of its vast military power, it is still being held hostage, and Iran is still, to some extent, holding the international economy hostage because it's using this leverage that it was able to acquire by the war of keeping the strait closed or at least trying to restrict the traffic through the strait, a vital international oil and gas shipping passage, and trying to monetize that.
So strategically, the U.S. is worse off. Now the administration argues, and it's a fair enough argument, that it did big damage to the missile programs in Iran, to its conventional forces. That may be the case, but that, I think, is a tactical victory and not a strategic victory, and that is the big problem here.
And if you think about what the President could do next, he could escalate the war. He could try to attack more economic targets like Kharg Island, the Iranian oil producing hub, or he could continue these attacks to try and open the strait. Each one of those comes with a heavy price economically in terms of humanitarian, in terms of potential loss of American lives, and the backlash against Gulf states and the international economy. So every step that he takes now to try to get out of this trap that's been created by his own policies and a failure to think through, I think, a lot of what's next from each previous option, it creates more, bad reverberations.
And, of course, we're only a few months away from a midterm election. The president has already told us, that he ended the war because he didn't want to create another great depression. He doesn't want to pay the economic price. Well, now he is in this trap with very few good options.
MICHAELSON: Stephen Collinson, you can read Stephen's full article right now for free at CNN.com. Stephen, thank you so much. Later, we'll take you aboard an aircraft carrier in the Arabian Sea for a rare exclusive look at its operations.
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PAMELA BROWN, ANCHOR/CHIEF INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: We are the closest navy ship to Iran right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct. You're right on the -- we call it, the ticket line, the firing line.
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MICHAELSON: Pamela Brown is onboard the USS Abraham Lincoln. It's an amazing story. Next hour on "The Story Is."
But now to some breaking news from Washington. A bipartisan housing bill officially became law just a few minutes ago, despite last minute pushback by President Trump. It is the largest housing affordability bill in a generation. President Trump refused to sign it, because senate Republicans failed to pass his major voting law, the SAVE America Act. The bill took effect as law without the President's signature at midnight eastern, which was just about 10 minutes ago.
That is seen as a potential lost opportunity for Republicans looking to tout their affordability agenda ahead of the midterm elections. For more on what's actually in this bill, what it means for housing, you can check out the article on CNN.com talking about sweeping housing affordability bill becomes law, despite Trump's delay. Here's what it actually means for the housing market.
Let's talk about that with the author, CNN Business Writer Samantha Delouya, who joins me live here in Los Angeles. Thanks so much for being with us.
SAMANTHA DELOUYA, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: Thank you.
MICHAELSON: OK. So the big question that a lot of people have, say I want to buy a home sometime soon.
DELOUYA: For sure.
MICHAELSON: How does this help me if it does help me?
DELOUYA: So look, if you want to buy a home this spring or next year, it's not going to make a huge difference for you. The goal of this bill is to increase supply, but that takes time. It can take a number of years before we even see any impact from this bill, if at all in terms of on a national scale. It's like sort of a first step in a larger conversation about tackling housing affordability. And the goal is to kind of pass more bills to add on to this to improve the picture, but we'll see, if there's the political will for that.
MICHAELSON: Well, let's talk about what the bill actually does. You say that part of it is that it encourages building more manufactured housing to increase supply. How does it do that, what are you talking about when you talk about manufactured housing?
DELOUYA: Yeah. So this is one of the biggest, most prominent provisions of this law, And experts say this could actually make the biggest difference in some Americans' lives. So manufactured housing is actually houses that are built in factories off-site, and it's cheaper and quicker to build than a house that's built on-site of the land that you own. And a lot of these houses were mostly relegated to mobile home parks, because there was a requirement that they had to have wheels underneath them.
This law removes that requirement. And with modern technology, these manufactured houses can look like regular houses in any old neighborhood. And so the goal is to kind of increase that supply and that they could be built all over the country cheaply and quickly.
MICHAELSON: Some of those houses are amazing. I've done some reporting on this, especially in areas here in Southern California that burned by the Palisades burned area, Altadena. There's been a big push to build these things. We can move in much faster than trying to build it on-site.
DELOUYA: Exactly. MICHAELSON: Another thing from this bill reduces zoning and permitting barriers. Obviously this is a big deal.
DELOUYA: Yes, so this is a big one. So the issue with this is that local governments and states actually control the rules about, what kind of homes can be built, where they can be built, and what permits you need to build. So the federal government actually doesn't have complete control over that. This bill kind of tries to encourage these local governments to ease those restrictions by offering federal grants and money if they do that. And so, it's up to these local governments whether they do it, and so it's not a guarantee that it's going to work. But a recent estimate found that if these kinds of zoning and permitting restrictions were eased, 2.5 million more houses could be built in the United States. So it's pretty big.
MICHAELSON: Yeah. Also, private equity and Wall Street investors in terms of how they get involved in housing. Apparently, this is a big problem.
DELOUYA: Yes. So this provision of the bill was actually only added in after President Trump signed an executive order on the subject, basically declaring that single family homes are for families and not for Wall Street. And so it was sort of added in to, appease Trump. Ultimately, like you said, he decided not to sign the bill. But this was a source of frustration among many Americans, especially in those years after the pandemic when demand for housing spiked. Those big investors, private equity, like Blackstone owned companies and other investors, were buying up a lot of these single family homes. And so this law now says that if you already own 350 single family homes, you can't buy anymore. But it doesn't require them to sell any of the homes that they already own so.
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MICHAELSON: And 350 is a lot.
DELOUYA: Yeah.
MICHAELSON: Even that. And just we'll put this up on the screen quickly just to point out why this is such a problem. The idea, the average age of a home, first time home buyer is now 40-years-old. The median existing home sales price is 440,000. That has been out of touch, out of reach for a lot of people, which is why housing affordability is something that could pass in a bipartisan way.
DELOUYA: Yes.
MICHAELSON: Because it affects both Republicans and Democrats. Samantha, great reporting on this. They can read your full article, CNN.com for more.
DELOUYA: Thank you.
MICHAELSON: Thanks for coming in.
Dozens of people have been rescued from a catastrophic flooding situation in southeastern Missouri. Emergency crews have conducted around 90 water rescues so far. Video shows water rising to nearly overflow a local bridge. In one county, a building collapsed due to the flooding causing rescue teams to search for 10 to 17 people who may have entered that water. More rain is in the forecast from Missouri to Pennsylvania as slow moving thunderstorms entered the region, raising the flood risk in the days ahead.
Next hour on "The Story Is" I'll be speaking to a woman who has family members who were caught in the floods. Here's some of what she had to say to me by phone.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's devastating. It's -- my family has been there for 40 years. I remember I was always at home for 40 years. He ran a successful camping business for 30 years, and it's just devastating to see everything lost.
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MICHAELSON: Here in Southern California, evacuation orders have been issued for parts of Los Angeles County due to a fast moving brush fire that has spread to the Angeles National Forest. Officials say the summit fire has grown to approximately 1,300 acres, 526 hectares. No injuries have been reported, but so far, authorities warn the fire poses a potential threat to structures.
A nationwide power outage has hit Cuba for the second time this week, plunging that country into darkness. It is the fourth time it's happened this year. Officials say the national electrical grid collapsed on Friday afternoon. This comes as the island faces an ongoing energy crisis that has worsened due to the effective U.S. blockade of fuel shipments.
When we come back here on "The Story Is" this.
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HUGO BALDERAS-IBARRA, ATTORNEY FOR TWO I.C.E. DETAINEES: My client's versions of the events are extremely different from what I.C.E. agents are saying.
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MICHAELSON: New witness statements are raising questions about the government's account of a deadly I.C.E. shooting of a Mexican national in Houston.
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MICHAELSON: There are conflicting new accounts of Tuesday's deadly I.C.E. shooting of a Mexican national in Houston. Three men who were riding in the victim's work van say that the government's description of events is false. CNN's Ed Lavandera has the details, and a warning, his report contains some disturbing images.
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ED LAVANDERA, SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (VOICE-OVER): As Lorenzo Salgado Araujo laid on the ground suffering from a gunshot wound, the three other men in the van with him were being taken into I.C.E. custody by I.C.E. agents Tuesday morning. For the first time, we're hearing their version of the events that led to the deadly shooting through an attorney who spoke with them.
HUGO BALDERAS-IBARRA, ATTORNEY FOR TWO I.C.E. DETAINEES: I can tell you with conviction that it that my client's versions of the events are extremely different from what I.C.E. agents are saying or what the agency is saying.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): After the shooting, the Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency put out a statement saying Salgado attempted to "Evade arrest, weaponized his vehicle, and tried to run over an I.C.E. agent, forcing the officer to shoot the 52-year-old construction worker in self-defense.
BALDERAS-IBARRA: At no point was there ever an agent standing in front of the vehicle nor was an agent ever placed in the line of danger. That is simply false, and I believe my clients are telling the truth.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): The Department of Homeland Security says the I.C.E. agents involved were not wearing body cameras and the unmarked cars they were driving were not equipped with dash cameras. And so far, a clear video of the shooting has not emerged. But the videos that have been uncovered raised questions about the federal authorities' description of what happened.
At 5:54 a.m., Lorenzo Salgado leaves his house to pick up the three other men for work. The three men told the attorney they were all driving north along Wayside Drive in a white van when an unmarked vehicle started following them. The white van made a U-turn and started moving south on Wayside Drive as shown in the CNN animation based on videos compiled from the scene.
The images show Salgado's white van turned left onto Canal Street at 6:46 a.m., while a black SUV followed closely behind. A second video shows the white van continuing on Canal Street while a black SUV drives alongside the van on the left side. Seconds later, another black SUV emerges from a parking lot of a shopping center onto Canal Street and follows the two vehicles.
Salgado's white van then makes another U-turn and seconds later, the unmarked I.C.E. vehicles in the white van come to a complete stop. Here is a closer look at these videos and the sequence of move ins that led up to the shooting. Salgado's van turns left onto Canal Street with the black SUV pursuing. The unmarked vehicle carrying I.C.E. agents pulls alongside the van, and the next camera angle captures the last U-turn on the edge of the video image before the cars come to a complete stop, and several I.C.E. agents are then seen running toward the van.
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It's unclear from the videos when Salgado was shot, but one minute later at 6:48 a.m., a bystander captured video of Salgado on the ground bleeding with agents surrounding him. The attorney for the detainees said Friday that agents shot at Salgado from the passenger side of his vehicle.
BALDERAS-IBARRA: They also confirmed that the shots came from the sides, not from the front, which is inconsistent, with the I.C.E. agents statements.
SYLVIA GARCIA, U.S. HOUSE DEMOCRAT: We certainly now have conflicting testimony. I'm not prepared to say today that it's all lies, but it sure is looking that way.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): Congresswoman Sylvia Garcia and other advocates for these three detained men tell us that they've been telling loved ones, that they are being pressured to sign papers to self deport. The Department of Homeland Security denies those allegations calling them false. Congresswoman Garcia also says she spoke with the acting I.C.E. Director and that he told her that the agents involved in the shooting have been taken out of Houston. We've reached out to DPS to find out if they've been placed on leave, but we have not heard back. Ed Lavandera, CNN, Dallas.
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MICHAELSON: Ed, thank you. Outrage growing over that deadly I.C.E. shooting. Just ahead, our expert panel weighs in on the controversy surrounding the shooting and the end of Graham Platner's senate campaign. Katie Zacharia, assemblyman Isaac Bryan join us live next.
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MICHAELSON: Welcome back to "The Story Is" I'm Elex Michaelson. Let's take a look at today's top political stories.
A new housing bill became law just about a half hour ago even though President Trump didn't sign it. He said that he did that because senate Republicans have failed to pass his voting legislation, the SAVE America Act. The bipartisan housing bill is the largest piece of legislation focused on home affordability in a generation.
Republican senator Mitch McConnell was loaded into an ambulance on a stretcher back on June 14th according to an eyewitness and new video of the incident obtained by CNN. The witness did not see McConnell's face, but says other neighbors saw him and confirmed his identity. McConnell's team has not disclosed any details about his condition, since he was hospitalized almost a month ago, which has sparked a lot of speculation online. Embattled Democratic candidate Graham Platner has formally withdrawn from the senate race in the state of Maine. Platner's submission is needed to allow the state party to replace him on the ballot. Maine Democrats hold a nominating convention to select a replacement candidate. They have until July 27th to submit a new name.
Joining us now to talk about all this is Isaac Bryan, a Democratic Member of the California State Assembly, and Katie Zacharia, a former Homeland Security spokesperson and the current senior communications adviser for Truth Social of Trump Media and Technology Group. Welcome to "The Story Is."
And, Katie, congrats on the new gig. We haven't seen you since then.
KATIE ZACHARIA, FORMER U.S. DEPT. OF HOMELAND SECURITY SPOKESPERSON: Thank you so much, Elex.
MICHAELSON: So let's start with you, Assemblyman, as the Democrat on the panel. When Graham Platner left today, he put out a statement which ended with, F I.C.E., free Palestine, which was a reminder that he is more progressive than a lot of folks in the Democratic caucus in the Senate right now, has moved very to the left. And there's a debate right now within the Democratic party about Democratic socialism. Should the party move to the left? Should it be more in the center? Could some of this alienate people in the center? How do you see things?
ISAAC BRYAN, CALIFORNIA STATE ASSEMBLY MEMBER: I think the Democratic Party needs to move closer to the people. And I think Graham Platner was channeling the voice of people in Maine. Now, obviously, he's not the right candidate, for this moment for a whole host of reasons. It was right of him to drop out today like he did. We need to find a replacement. But he was speaking the language that frustrated Americans are also speaking, and the people of Maine are very clear about it. They are frustrated with this affordability crisis. They are frustrated with these endless wars. They're frustrated with these broken promises. And the Trump administration is not shifting, and so the Democratic Party has to shift.
MICHAELSON: Katie, how do you read that last line? F I.C.E. and free Palestine.
ZACHARIA: Well, I did a heavy investigation into how many illegal aliens reside in Maine, and it's less than 10,000. And I looked into how many Palestinians reside in Maine, and you have about 66 and maybe 5,300 Arabs. So that last line is not representative of all of the people of Maine or the values of the people of Maine, which brings me to the fact that Platner wasn't here to necessarily represent the people of Maine. He was there to toe a party line and really get in the weeds on the party line and not necessarily the issues of the people of Maine.
And what that also said is he was less concerned about the continuity of the Democrat establishment and much more concerned about his personal vendetta and really this alliance with the Democrat socialists. And I think this brings into huge, huge problems for the Democrat party when you have candidates that are misaligned, not representative of the people of the state they're supposed to be the senator of, and also far away from the Democrat establishment.
MICHAELSON: How do you respond to that?
BRYAN: I think the primary results kind of speak for themselves, and I think the party is going through an honest reflection. You look at what happened in New York. You look at the leadership of Zohran Mamdani and others around the country. We're a big tent party, and we're in need of a new identity.
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One that's rooted in the actual needs and demands of the people. And right now, the people are righteously frustrated with federal immigration enforcement that is terrorizing American cities, American citizens, and others who are in our country committing no crimes, just trying to go about their lives. People are losing their lives under this administration. It's right for Graham and anybody running for office for the highest offices in our country to point that out in this moment.
MICHAELSON: Well, to that point, they're -- we're now looking at this investigation into Houston in terms of what happened. We wish that we could look at the body camera footage, which should tell us. That's the whole point of having body cameras. DHS says that, that because of the shutdown, they didn't get to it. So there's no cameras on the car, no cameras on the officers. So who do we believe in this situation?
BRYAN: We believe the people who were on the ground who are telling us that I.C.E. is lying like they have several times. They lied when they told us Alex Pretti attacked them. They lied when they said Renee Good tried to hit folks with their car. This is an agency that has had zero accountability. They've spent a $100 billion terrorizing folks, buying masks, buying unidentified cars, hiding who they are instead of moving with transparency. We haven't had any prosecutions of any of the I.C.E. agents who have killed American citizens. It's shameful. It's on purpose, and the Trump administration's covering for them.
MICHAELSON: You were the spokesperson for DHS for a short time. I mean, that's a lot of what he just said. How do you respond to that?
ZACHARIA: Well, the I.C.E. agent involved in the Renee Good situation was hit by her car. It wasn't a lie. He was hospitalized. The information came out seven days after that he was hospitalized for internal bleeding from Renee Good hitting him with her car. That was evidenced again on corroborating video footage plus hospitalization plus internal bleeding and damages to him.
So that's not a lie. And when we're dealing with situations like this, again, you look at the seven day window it took to release the information that the officer had been hospitalized after being hit by Renee Good car. We're only a few days into this investigation. It's ongoing. And to the point of body cams, President Trump has been supportive of it. Secretary Noem, of which I can speak to, had earmarked in Congress -- earmarked $20 million for those body cams. Tom Homan has been supportive of them. Greg Bovino was supportive of them. And I think there's overall a support of body cams being deployed on these agents.
MICHAELSON: So where were they?
ZACHARIA: Where were they? That's the great question. And I'm not at Homeland Security any longer, and I'm not sure where the holdup is. And if it was the suspension or the delay on DHS funding, then that's something that needs to be discussed. But it's also apparent that it wasn't the Republicans or DHS holding that up, that it was a very clear Democrat holdup on the DHS funding, withholding funding for DHS, because of I.C.E. and CBP, and that ended up -- that funding ended up coming through anyway. So it was unnecessary to keep DHS shut down for that period of time.
MICHAELSON: You're shaking your head.
BRYAN: Yeah. It just wasn't prioritized. Remember, they did a $150 million contract to a communications firm that had only been established for eight days to run a big propaganda show of what I.C.E. can be with Kristi Noem cosplaying. Transparency and accountability isn't a function of this agency by design. Lorenzo Salgado should be alive today. So should Renee Good. So should Alex Pretti. So should Keith Porter Jr., and hopefully nobody else loses their lives. And that's not to mention the 30 plus folks who have died in detention cells.
MICHAELSON: Do you think that I.C.E. has a role in enforcing immigration law? That people that are here illegally should not be here illegally. And if they are here illegally, what should happen to them?
BRYAN: I think it's a shame that the last time we had a comprehensive immigration conversation, Donald Trump tanked it so that he could boost his presidential ambitions and then never returned back to the table. I think when we are trying to talk about what a fair and just immigration process should be, that's an open and honest conversation Americans want to have. That's not what this agency is doing. This agency is terrorizing blue cities that didn't support Trump. It is working with impunity. It is killing American citizens. It is operating under the --
MICHAELSON: But should it operate then? I mean, what -- and is there value in enforcing immigration law?
BRYAN: It should operate under compassionate and democratic immigration infrastructure that hasn't been built, because we can't have the honest conversations the country needs to have because that's not what this administration is interested in.
MICHAELSON: Because there are folks, including these candidates in Maine who are now running, who also are saying F I.C.E., who are saying abolish I.C.E. There's a candidate for Michigan senate that's saying abolish I.C.E. How do you respond to that?
ZACHARIA: Well, I want to first ask, should Sheridan Gorman be alive? BRYAN: I think nobody should lose their life unjustly. No innocent person should lose their life, especially at the hands of their own government who sworn to protect.
ZACHARIA: No, Sheridan Gorman was killed in Illinois by a criminal illegal alien who was here from Venezuela, and she was shot in the back. Should Sheridan Gorman be alive?
BRYAN: Absolutely. And I'm glad that I.C.E. was there to protect her.
ZACHARIA: Well, the question is should Laken Riley be alive? She wouldn't be dead if her assailant Jose Medina had been deported.
BRYAN: I think the point that you're making is immigration enforcement the way that we currently do it, is not protecting anybody.
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It is actually causing more harm. It has not saved any of those lives, and it's cost us at least two American citizens and dozens more folks who had no criminal records and should have never been the target of this administration.
ZACHARIA: Eight children were saved under HSI, which is a part of I.C.E. today, and we haven't been discussing that. They were saved in an operation for the World Cup, and those eight children were saved because of HSI, because of I.C.E., but you don't talk about that. You also don't talk about the people that could be spared by honoring ICE detainers which you're against. There's 33,000 active I.C.E. detainers in California that absolutely would spare lives if you would allow federal agents to come in and apprehend criminal illegal aliens that have committed crimes or being released by prisons could be picked up by federal enforcement officers and then sent home to their home country.
And yet California and the liberal legislation that has allowed this to happen, they release these criminal illegal aliens out onto the streets after they've raped children, after they've killed people, and they're still coming out on the streets, and it would be easy to call I.C.E., which is a very, very simple and really should be a bipartisan. We don't want criminals on our streets and people who could be sent back to their home countries. That is something that is so viable and low hanging fruit to honor, and we're not doing it here in California in sanctuary jurisdictions.
BRYAN: The idea that I.C.E. is for the kids is kind of crazy. They use five year olds as bait and then deport them to detention centers in Houston where federal judges have to bring them back because they are getting sick and dying. I know personally hundreds of children who don't know where their loved ones are, because they were kidnapped in my district and across Los Angeles unjustly, had no criminal conviction, no criminal records. And all of these children, by the way, are American children who don't know where their loved ones are.
I.C.E. has a terrible track record on human rights violations against children in cages. That's been a bipartisan failure, but it's even worse now. We've got more deaths in I.C.E. custody than ever before in American history. This is a failing agency. It's got to be abolished and reimagined.
ZACHARIA: We have 8 the United States code Title 8 in the United States code, which is the entire immigration code. And I.C.E. is set up to enforce the laws that are already on the books. You can't have an administration that has said, come over the border illegally. There are no border laws for four years. Basically, millions of people caught over, and then you can't have no enforcement of immigration policies and remain a sovereign country. I.C.E. is operating under rule of law and enforcing rule of law. If people don't like immigration laws, they can lobby congress to get these laws repealed, but they can't say abolish an agency that's in charge for -- in -- that's charged for enforcing immigration.
BRYAN: I.C.E. has not always existed. It was a creation of the last couple of decades. We haven't always done immigration this way. And even in I.C.E.'s existence, it's never an immigration this way. We tried to change the laws. There was bipartisan comprehensive immigration reform, and Trump tanked it before he became President so he could weaponize this issue and demonize both American citizens and undocumented folks all across the country.
MICHAELSON: Yeah. And, of course, there has not been real comprehensive immigration reform passed in 40 years.
BRYAN: Since Ronald Reagan gave amnesty to 11 million undocumented.
MICHAELSON: And you weren't even born yet.
BRYAN: I was not.
MICHAELSON: So, I mean, it's been it's been a minute. And there have been all sorts of reasons why both parties have tanked this legislation over the years. But it is seems to be a real shame that Congress can't come together to work on this. If they can do bipartisan housing bill, maybe they can do immigration sometime soon.
A really good conversation, an important conversation that I think a lot of people are having. It's great to hear from both sides, and we thank you both for doing it in a civil way. Great to see both of you. Have a good weekend. Isaac Bryan, Katie Zacharia, thanks for coming in.
BRYAN: Thank you.
MICHAELSON: We'll be back, to talk all things World Cup. Little less, tense for that with former our U.S. Men's National Club soccer player, Cobi Jones. Big weekend of soccer ahead. We got a legend in the building next.
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK) MICHAELSON: Those fans in Madrid erupting in celebration as Spain beat Belgium 2-1 for a spot in the World Cup Semifinals. Spain took the lead in a tight first half before Belgium scored an equalizer, becoming the first team to score against Spain in this World Cup. But after Belgium's goalkeeper was sent off due to injury, Spain capitalized on a late match mistake by his replacement to book their spot in the Semifinals against France. The final two World Cup quarterfinal matches kick off on Saturday. Norway chasing its first ever semifinal appearance against England in Miami, and defending champions Argentina will take on Switzerland in Kansas City.
For more, I want to bring in former player for the U.S. Men's national team Cobi Jones, who played for the U.S. In '94, '98, and 2002. The amount of history you've seen. Welcome to "The Story Is" for the first time. So great to have you here.
COBI JONES, FMR. MEMBER, U.S. MEN'S NATIONAL SOCCER TEAM: Thanks for having me. Thanks for having me.
MICHAELSON: So let's talk about the big matches tomorrow. Norway, which has become a cultural sensation with the Viking rogue with Erling Haaland, who's all over social media against England, who's got their own stars in Jude Bellingham and Harry Kane. How do you see this one?
JONES: I think this is going to be a great matchup. I obviously, England probably has the advantage in this match.
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They tend to play as a complete team where you look at how they've come about, they have scores from every position and everybody stepping up at different times. Then you look at Norway, it really is about the big man up top, the Viking, the Cyborg, whatever you want to call him, but Erling Haaland and everything that he's capable of doing. Just but the thing is, he just needs one moment. One moment, and he can do something special to put the Norway team in the right position.
MICHAELSON: He has become a social media phenomenon. His image is everywhere. Memes of him are everywhere. His trips around the United States, like in Dallas putting on cowboy hat and eating steak. What is it about him? Why do you think he's become sort of the breakout star?
JONES: He has a great personality. That's what it is. He's able to laugh at himself. And that's what you want, because he seems personable. He seems like he could be, even though, he's this big the big Viking, like I said, he can -- you can have a laugh with him. That's what it's all about. I love the one where he says, hey, I ran into my twin brother, and he has the picture of Shrek next to him. So he's able to laugh at himself, and that's endearing to everybody watching him.
MICHAELSON: So he's obviously a huge star. The biggest star in the history of soccer, of course, is Lionel Messi or some people would say that. I don't know if you would say that. He's playing against Switzerland tomorrow. Argentina, a lot of pressure on Messi. How do you see this one?
JONES: This will be a very interesting matchup. I mean, once again, you have a team, looking at Switzerland where, yes, they have stars, but they're not like the big no names around the world where you look at this Argentinian side and, of course, it's all about Lionel Messi and what he can do. And they've come through some tough times. There's a lot of controversy, with this Argentinian team. But when it comes down to it, they've scored a lot of goals, and they've come back from positions where they were losing, and they've been challenged. Where they had scored, they're up, then all of a sudden, like, a Cabo Verde team comes back and scores. But they find a way to win.
MICHAELSON: Find a way to win, which is kind of like what the New York Knicks were doing during their championship run. You get down, but if you keep finding a way to win, that says something about your team. So Spain got the win against Belgium today. They did give up a goal for the first time. They're going to face off against France, who a lot of people have seen as the sort of front runner favorite for this whole thing, Spain with that incredible defense. How do you put those two teams up against each other?
JONES: They usually say defense wins championships. When you look at this the Spanish side, giving up only one goal up until this point, they've been pretty remarkable. But I look at this French squad, and I look at how deep they are and the talent that they have when they have an Mbappe, they have a Dembele, Olise, so many different players. Their bench could be a starting another starting team in the world cup that's how deep they are. And then that man Mbappe right there, the way he is just finding ways to score, I think it's going to be very difficult for that Spanish defense to handle it.
MICHAELSON: I mean, has 20 goals in 20 matches in the world cup, which is insane. And there's this competition for the golden boot. We want to put this on the screen. The golden boot is the player who scores the most goals during a World Cup. Whoever wins it is going to set a record, because they've already done that. And we're looking at here. Mbappe is at eight. Lionel Messi's at eight, Erling Haaland is at seven, Harry Kane is at six. All those guys still remaining, which says something about how they're doing. How do you see this competition?
JONES: Well, you got to score goals. Keep going, right?
MICHAELSON: Yeah.
JONES: I mean, really looking at it, I would say, as far as the path, you're probably leaning towards Lionel Messi. But for me, Kylian Mbappe and what he's done and how he scored goals, I don't think there's really a defender that's able to stop the complete attack of France. So that's going to give Mbappe chances at goal. And he's a clinical finisher.
MICHAELSON: Of course, lot of American fans are disappointed that the team is not competing anymore. You were a part of the team in 2002, which went the farthest of any American team. There was hope that this year's team would go farther than you all. They did not. But the -- and this is a look at picture of you, and there you are. And there's Alexi Lalas as well, who's gotten a lot of attention during this whole thing. So the ratings for Alexi Lalas on Fox and the rest of the crew is insane.
Unbelievable. Let's put it up on the screen in terms of the ratings that that we're talking about here. They are higher than the AFC and NFC championship in football. USA versus Belgium, 51 million. This is combining Fox and Telemundo. The NFC an NFC championship game, 47 million. Mexico versus England, 46 million. That was a non-U.S. team even, with viewership here. This is higher than the NBA finals, higher than the World Series. What does this moment mean for soccer going forward in the America?
JONES: Well, no surprise for me, when you look at it. But I think it just shows that there is an interest, for the game at varied levels.
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You're talking about, of course, this is the World Cup, so it's a little bit different. Everybody wants to be part of an event. I think the key is now can, all these soccer aficionados and everyone that's involved with the game, can you tap into that fan base that is maybe possibly interested, because it's the World Cup. Now can we get you to watch more soccer, just on a continuous every day, week-to-week, month-to-month situation?
MICHAELSON: Your toe is in the pool. Can you dive into the water?
JONES: Yeah. Come join in. Come join in. It's fun.
MICHAELSON: All right. Cobi Jones, great to have you here. Enjoy the games tomorrow. It's going to be fun. We'll be back with a look at today's top stories right after this.
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