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The Story Is with Elex Michaelson

Powerful 7.7 Magnitude Earthquake Hits Off Coast Of Indonesia; Tropical Storm LALA Could Hit As a Hurricane Saturday; Trump - Strait Of Hormuz To Be Declared a U.S. Territory; Aired 12-1a ET

Aired August 15, 2026 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: I'm Elex Michaelson. "The Story Is" troubles coming to Hawaii or earthquake in Indonesia. We are looking at a 7.7 magnitude quake there, the latest on what is happening. There is also a hurricane coming towards Oahu. We'll have the latest from an emergency official there. And my one on one exclusive with Secretary of Health and Human Services, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., on President Trump and vaccines. "The Story Is" starts right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Live from Los Angeles. "The Story Is" with Elex Michaelson.

MICHAELSON: Thanks for being with us. I'm Elex Michaelson. A massive 7.7 magnitude earthquake struck off the coast of South Central Indonesia on Saturday. The local governor says at least five people were killed, several others injured. It hit near the island of Flores, which is home to about 2 million people. A tsunami warning issued after the quake has now been lifted. CNN's Gage Goulding is in Hong Kong following this breaking story. To start things off for us. Gage, we're hearing of new aftershocks.

GAGE GOULDING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Elex. And some of these aftershocks are just as strong as the initial earthquake itself. You mentioned there's 7.7 magnitude earthquake, an incredibly strong earthquake. According to the USGS, about 500,000 people in and around that area of Northern Indonesia were able to feel what the USGS qualifies or quantifies as very strong to severe shaking. And you can see the video there, people running in shock and disbelief the buildings crumbling in that area.

What we've seen is damage to hospitals, damage to buildings. And this video coming from social media is, is truly impressive, especially when you think about the number of earthquakes that we've had in and around the area of, this is all along that kind of ring of fire area where 90 percent of the world's earthquakes hit. And look at this video here of the building actually crumbled into it. This was around 6:00 A.M. local time. So this is just as people are starting to get going for the day. Many still sleeping around 6:00 A.M. I certainly would be on a Saturday morning local time in Indonesia. That's whenever all this hits. So there's a lot of people inside these structures. That's what I'm getting at here.

I want you to listen to somebody that was here in that area describing the moment when the shaking started. Take a listen.

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NONA, VILLAGER (translated): The quake was massive. The shock was so strong. We were resting at home with family. There were 13 of us inside the house, and we all ran to save ourselves.

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GOULDING: Yeah. They're running to save themselves there. And the latest number that we just got in moments ago is that there have been five confirmed fatalities according to a local police official on the ground there and a number of other folks that have been injured in this. Elex?

MICHAELSON: Cage Goulding in Hong Kong with the latest on that 7.7 magnitude quake in Indonesia. Speaking of earthquakes, it's been four days since a 7.4 magnitude quake hit Colombia. Now that country's President vowing to rebuild the nation's western region. Rescue teams found a man alive in the rubble of a collapsed hotel on Friday and amazingly, which is sparking hope that more survivors could still be found. As of Friday, officials say 287 people have died, nearly 400 more are missing and thousands are injured.

Hawaii is preparing for a rare potential hurricane strike this weekend as tropical storm Lala moves closer to the Big Island. The system picking up strength as it moves closer. Lala expected to hit hurricane status before reaching the Big Island on Saturday, bringing as much as 2 feet of rain and storm surge of nearly 3 feet. Hurricanes have made landfall on the Hawaiian Islands only a handful of times since record keeping began.

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GEORGE STOOS, HAWAII RESIDENT: I'm feeling a little bit anxious, like I said. We're in the past. I felt certain degrees of anxious, anxiety, and such, but it's a little bit different because just the way they're talking and the way it's presenting and all of it, it's not sounding like it's going to be something innocent. So get ready.

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MICHAELSON: Joining me now is Molly Pierce, Public Information Officer for the Oahu Department of Emergency Management. Molly, what is the latest and what's happening right now when it comes to preparation?

MOLLY PIERCE, OAHU DEPARTMENT OF EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT: Hi, Elex. Thanks for having me. Yeah. So right now on Oahu, we're preparing for a tropical storm, to impact our island starting Saturday night. Of course, all eyes are on the Big Island, as they potentially experience this as a direct hit from a hurricane. And so we're waiting to see what that looks like. But on Oahu, we're actively preparing, all of our city agencies and federal and state partners along with our non- profit and non-governmental agencies to really do everything we can ahead of the storm to get as many people to safety as we can, be that doing, encouraging folks to shelter in place with friends and family and opening shelters, as necessary.

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We're also doing a lot of prep to try and prevent a lot of these impacts. So doing a lot of work to try and keep our streams from overflowing. We had some really damaging flooding back in March with our Kona Lows, and so we're really trying to do as much as we can ahead to prevent that kind of incident again. Our big concern, though, really for this one is the wind, and we have a lot of vulnerable infrastructure. Our power lines are mostly above ground, and we have a lot of big beautiful tropical trees, that unfortunately with these strong winds to come down. So we're really asking folks to prepare for prolonged power outages after this storm, which we think could likely be our primary impact on Oahu.

MICHAELSON: I mean, obviously, it's the middle of August. This is the time when so many people are flying in and out of Hawaii from all around the world. What is your message to tourists and your message to residents?

PIERCE: Our message for both groups really is the same. At this point, if you're here, you're going to need to be ready to take care of yourself through this storm, either if you are a resident, either sheltering in place in your home or going to a shelter. If you're a visitor, you're actually probably in a pretty good position. If you're staying in a hotel, most of those buildings, are strong enough and safe enough to shelter in place in, and definitely check with the management of your hotel to find out what their specific plans are.

For anyone who's planning travel after the storm, we'd really recommend folks take a look, see what the impacts are, and just be ready to be flexible and try and give us the aloha that we try to give you, and help us to either recover, if we have impacts or come on in if things are in the clear.

MICHAELSON: Great messages. Best of luck, in the days ahead. Molly Pierce, thank you for joining us. And in our next hour, we will go live to the Big Island. Now to this.

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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Pretty soon, I'll be declaring the Hormoz Strait a territory of The United States. Essentially, that's what it is. We have the blockade. No ships get through unless we want them to.

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MICHAELSON: President Trump there dropping a bombshell about the future of the Strait of Hormuz. It's unclear how he would make an international waterway between Iran and Oman a U.S. territory. But Tehran was quick to react, saying the Strait cannot be seized by a tweet, an aircraft carrier, or a campaign speech. Mr. Trump also seemed to be out of step with the new White House messaging on Iran. White House said Friday that keeping gas prices low is just as important as ending Tehran's nuclear program. But a couple hours later, the President said it's worth it to pay more for gas if that prevents Iran from getting nuclear weapons. He also said this.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Family members of U.S. service members are concerned about the conditions on for the USS Lincoln --

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Well, no. That ship is moving. No. They're not. That ship is moving right now or very shortly, and it's being replaced with another very similar ship.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Has the deployment gone on too long? Are you working?

TRUMP: No. No. No. Not nearly long enough.

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MICHAELSON: President Trump dismissing concerns about conditions on the USS Abraham Lincoln, which is deployed near Iran. There have been multiple reports of crew members trying to jump or going overboard amid horrid living conditions on that ship. The carrier has been deployed for more than 250 days. We're now learning that a crew member of another supporting vessel went overboard back in April. He was later rescued. It's still unclear if he intentionally jumped.

The suspect in the murder of the UnitedHealthcare CEO is facing a potential life sentence following his guilty plea on Friday. Luigi Mangione confessed to gunning down CEO Brian Thompson in New York back in 2024. Mangione's sentencing is set for December. But as Leigh Waldman reports, he did not plead guilty to murder charges, and it's unclear if he'll ever face them.

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LEIGH WALDMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Lasting less than 40 minutes, Luigi Mangione appeared in federal court in Manhattan pleading guilty to federal stalking charges. Mangione is charged with gunning down UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson nearly two years ago. Mangione telling the U.S. district judge, I shot Mr. Thompson and he died. I knew what I was doing was illegal.

KAREN FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO, LUIGI MANGIONE'S ATTORNEY: As Luigi explained in court today, he endured years of severe debilitating pain following a broken back while struggling to navigate our health care and health insurance systems.

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WALDMAN (voice-over): In a separate case at the state level, 28-year- old Mangione faces second degree murder and weapons charges in connection to the shooting death of Thompson in which he has pleaded not guilty.

AGNIFILO: New York law does not permit a person to be prosecuted and punished twice for the exact same crime.

WALDMAN (voice-over): Mangione's defense team immediately filed a motion to dismiss some of the state case on grounds it violates New York's strict double jeopardy laws.

AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY & LEGAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: This was a strategic move by his defense team to again prevent him from being tried in state court. It's not automatic that the state case will be dismissed.

WALDMAN (voice-over): Following the federal court hearing, the Thompson family releasing a statement saying in part, today's guilty plea marks an important step towards justice for Brian and for our family. While nothing will ease the pain of losing him, we are grateful that the federal justice system has held the person responsible for this heinous act accountable.

JAMIE MCDONALD, U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK: The result achieved today now allows our office to seek the maximum penalty allowed, life imprisonment.

WALDMAN (voice-over): In Lower Manhattan, I'm Leigh Waldman reporting.

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MICHAELSON: "The Story Is" President Trump's new executive order on vaccines. Health and Human Services Secretary, Robert F. Kennedy sits down with me for a one-on-one interview about the Trump administration's vaccine policy. That's next.

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MICHAELSON: Millions of Americans are under flood watches in the rain battered Midwest. Storms drenching the area for a sixth day forcing hundreds of people to evacuate their homes. Rivers are overrunning their banks. Roads are unpassable in parts of Indiana. Floodwaters hit a 100-year record high of 25-feet deep. More rain is in the forecast. Storms expected to start in Iowa Friday evening then move eastward overnight. A flash flood emergency is in place for Eastern Kentucky.

Extreme summer heat continues to torture much of Europe. The heat led drought in Rome is causing a major water crisis. Water levels in the Tiber River are so low. Remains of the 2,000-year-old Nero's Bridge that are usually completely underwater can now be seen. Across much of Europe, the record heat is sparking destructive wildfires. Firefighters in many countries are battling flames being fed by parched landscapes. CNN's Louis Leeson has the devastating details.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): France, Greece, Spain, and now England. Several homes burned to the ground in the West Midlands on Thursday as the U.K. recorded its hottest day of the year. The West Midlands Fire Service called it one of the most significant incidents the region has faced. A child and three firefighters were taken to the hospital following the wildfire in Stourbridge. The fires came as temperatures in West London reached 38.1 degrees Celsius or a 100.6 degrees Fahrenheit.

Britain is experiencing its fifth heat wave of the year amid drought and a dry summer. Human caused climate change is making extreme heat like this more intense and more frequent. England and Wales have already recorded more than 1,000 wildfires this year, matching last year's record breaking total.

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MICHAELSON: On Monday, President Donald Trump signed an executive order aimed at changing the way American children would be vaccinated. The order, in part, reduces the total number of immunizations recommended for children in their earlier years and advises that the measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine known as MMR would be separated into three individual shots. President Trump saying without evidence that children were being given too many vaccines.

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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The vaccines, and we're breaking them up in two type variants, OK? Not so complicated. And we think we're going to have a tremendous result from doing that. Very simply, large amounts of vaccine large amounts of, like, vats of vaccine are currently pumped into your child's body.

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MICHAELSON: This week, I sat down with Health and Human Services Secretary, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. to talk about the new recommendations.

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ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: You believe in the MMR vaccine, right?

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., U.S. HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: Well, I believe that the MMR vaccine prevents measles.

MICHAELSON: And so President Trump talked about it this week saying when you put them together, they're sort of like a nuclear weapon, according to some, talking about the MMR vaccine together. But the CDC itself, your own CDC, says no published scientific evidence shows any benefit in separating the combination of MMR vaccine into three individual shots.

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So who's right? President Trump or your own CDC?

KENNEDY JR.: Well, I think the CDC website probably is outdated. There is a recent study that just came out that supports President Trump on that. It looks at the timeline for when the autism epidemic began and it's a synthesis of essentially a matter of view of all the existing science and it very strongly supports the President.

MICHAELSON: So do you believe that the MMR vaccine causes autism?

KENNEDY JR.: Like I said we are doing those studies right now. There have been many studies on the -- there have been about 17 studies that the CDC has traditionally cited that says that to make the argument that vaccines don't cause autism. Most of those, almost all of those look at the MMR vaccine, but they're epidemiological studies and people have pointed to flaws in them. And so we're trying to do it. And then the other study, the other vaccines, the further -- the seven vaccines that are administered during the first six months of life have never been studied. And so the studies we're doing now are looking at the MMR vaccine, but not just through epidemiological studies, but through bench studies and clinical studies and animal studies and we are going to answer that question.

MICHAELSON: I mean, the American Medical Association says that altering a proven vaccination schedule without credible evidence risks weakening public confidence and putting children's health at risk. If kids don't get the vaccine because of this and die, is that on you?

KENNEDY JR.: The MMR vaccine.

MICHAELSON: Yeah.

KENNEDY JR.: The new schedule recommends the MMR vaccine.

MICHAELSON: But the idea of separating it into three, because some of your critics on the right say that people are going to get the vaccine less if that happens. Senator Bill Cassidy says, I'm a doctor. This executive order is wrong. It'll increase vaccine hesitancy. The former Surgeon General, Jerome Adams, who worked for President Trump, said what used to be one visit and one low cost MMR shot will now be three separate shots, more trips, more administration fees, more hassle, more pain for Americans children. How do you respond to that?

KENNEDY JR.: Well, those are arguments, but they do the -- they have a single vaccine in Japan and it works for that population. Our -- my -- I don't think anybody wants to take the MMR vaccine away from people who want it. But I think it makes sense to give people an option if they don't want it. Wouldn't you say that they should have that option?

MICHAELSON: Giving them the option, but --

KENNEDY JR.: Yeah. They give the option and maybe then more people are going to end up taking the vaccine because they don't want to take all three. So, I mean, my job is to tell the truth to the American people.

MICHAELSON: Right.

KENNEDY JR.: To tell them what we know about the science, what we don't know about the science, and then give them as many options as possible so they can make informed decisions about what is best for them and their family.

MICHAELSON: But right now in America there is no separate mumps, measles, rubella vaccine. It's all combined into one thing. So couldn't that take to do that here? Isn't that going to take years? And what happens?

KENNEDY JR.: Well, we're going to do it as quickly as we can. And as I said, we don't intend to take any vaccines away from people. I think it makes sense to give people an option and, particularly in light of recent science, I think they should have that option if they want to go with a single antigen vaccine.

MICHAELSON: In terms of how do you actually implement that? So what does that mean in terms of the states to their guidance? What kind of pressure are you going to put on them? What does that look like implementing the executive order?

KENNEDY JR.: Well the states are autonomous in terms of their vaccine recommendations. The federal government can tell them what the science says and make recommendations and we do that and we're using the best science to make those recommendations. We're using the same science that the European nations use. We give right now in our country more vaccines than any country in the world.

MICHAELSON: Yeah.

KENNEDY JR.: And we rely more on mandates. Those nations have the same or roughly the same vaccination coverage rates as we do without mandates, because there's more trust in the system. And here, we're asking kids, I had three vaccines, Elex, when I was a kid and I was fully compliant.

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My kids got 94 doses of about 17 vaccines and for a lot of parents that seems like too much and we want to make sure that the vaccines they're getting are the ones that they need to get, the same ones that the European countries recommend based upon the best science.

MICHAELSON: Yeah.

KENNEDY JR.: Well, those countries have much healthier children than we do.

MICHAELSON: So in terms of --

KENNEDY JR.: So we have the highest chronic disease rates of any nation in the world and we need to look at all of the causes for that, all the potential causes and give Americans the best advice.

MICHAELSON: But to that advice, if say the state of California says our advice is that every kid gets one shot of the MMR vaccine, you guys cool with that? State can do whatever it want?

KENNEDY JR.: That state's choice. It's their prerogative. California right now has probably I would say the most stringent, the toughest, most expansive vaccination recommendations of any state. It essentially does not even allow medical exemptions except under very, very limited circumstance. And so the state has the right to do that. But there's other states that may want to have a more relaxed schedule because they may have the perception that that is better for their populations.

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MICHAELSON: We'll hear more from Secretary Kennedy in a moment but we want to take a pause to get some perspective from Dr. Jake Scott, an Infectious Disease Expert and Clinical Associate Professor at Stanford University. Dr. Scott, thanks for being here. You just heard what the Secretary had to say. He made a number of claims in my interview with him. Let's start with the Secretary's claim that new research will answer whether the MMR vaccine causes autism. There's been extensive research on this already. Has there been any study that shows a link?

JAKE SCOTT, INFECTIOUS DISEASES SPECIALIST, STANFORD UNIVERSITY: No, there hasn't. And it's been studied extensively. So we have a massive amount of data when it comes to this proposed link between vaccines and autism. So, I mean, we've got a lot of data from European countries, but we also have excellent data from American studies as well, including a very recently published study of American children of 2.5 million children that found no link between vaccines and autism. So it's been studied extensively.

When it comes to measles, mumps, rubella that's been studied, no link. When it comes to thimerosal, which is a preservative in some flu vaccines, no link. When it comes to the cumulative schedule of vaccines, again, no link. Aluminum adjuvants, no link. And look at MMR, when it comes to the one country that has been sort of held up by the administration as using separate MMR vaccines, that's Japan, right?

So in 1993, Japan had a mumps strain related issue. About 16 out of 100,000 individuals who got that particular Japanese mumps strain called the URAV strain, about 16 out of 100,000 developed what's called aseptic meningitis. So Japan took the whole combination vaccine off the market and only offered measles alone and mumps -- sorry, and rubella alone and removed mumps. And the autism rates increased, despite that combination no longer being used. So there's plenty of data and so much data that I would say it's as definitive as we can get.

MICHAELSON: The Secretary claims that maybe more people will get vaccinated if you offer them as separate vaccines for measles, mumps, and rubella. What is the risk in offering those vaccines as three shots instead of one?

SCOTT: Yeah. So I'm not sure where the Secretary is getting that data because this has actually been studied. There was a study in 2017 that clearly showed that when kids have to have more shots, more vaccines and fewer combinations, rates of vaccination go down. That study showed I believe 69 percent vaccination rates in the combined group versus 50 percent in the separate shot group. So the data that I'm aware of says just the opposite. And it's, I think, pretty obvious to anyone who's a parent, right? I'm a parent and I generally take my kids to get vaccinated. And, I mean, our kids get vaccinated. If not me, it's the mother.

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But the last thing I want to do is bring my kid to an unnecessary visit for an extra shot. I mean, shots hurt. It takes time out of our busy schedules, et cetera. So obviously, vaccination rates are going to decline if we make it more complicated, more burdensome and, require more visits, more co-pays, et cetera, right?

MICHAELSON: Well, and right now, there are not three separate shots available in the United States. The Secretary says he wants to make these separate vaccines available as quickly as they can. Is that a quick process? What's involved in that?

SCOTT: Yeah. And I'm really glad that you pushed back on that because, that's not a quick process. Yeah, so one of the key sort of components of this policy, this executive order is to separate MMR into measles, mumps, rubella shots separately, which we call monovalent. Those don't exist in this country. So there is no measles only vaccine. There's no mumps only vaccine. There's no rubella only vaccine. Merck said back in, I believe 2009 that after pediatric groups said that they shouldn't be offered Merck stopped manufacturing that Merck and GSK just recently said that there's no evidence that separating the combination into separate components provides any safety or efficacy benefit.

And if you think about it, I mean, here are the manufacturers themselves who would stand to actually profit more, right, from offering more shots. And they're saying no, it's not necessary and it would probably take a decade at least. They've got to do new clinical trials. They've got to, go back to the sort of manufacturing, stages, et cetera. So it's very impractical.

MICHAELSON: And doctor, the Secretary also points out that children in Europe get fewer vaccinations than kids in the U.S. Why don't we follow the same model?

SCOTT: Yeah. So, the one model country that the -- more so I should say that the one piece of evidence that the executive policy cites, the one and only, and it's not really evidence, but the one document that it cites is this Health and Human Services assessment from Tracy Beth Hogue and Martin Kulldorff from January 2026. That document looks at the different countries, right? And the one with the very leanest schedule is Denmark, which provides recommends vaccinations against 11 diseases versus 18 in the U.S. If you count RSV, respiratory syncytial virus, which isn't technically a vaccine, it's a monoclonal antibody. So, call it 11 versus 17.

But Denmark's is the leanest, and Denmark is a very different country, right, than the U.S. I mean, it's considerably smaller, right? They also have universal health care. They also have a very robust and extremely well organized public health system that tracks every kid who, say doesn't get a hepatitis B vaccine. So they have like, state surveillance that monitors all these kids who don't get vaccinated. Whereas we have it well, had a birth dose policy that, wouldn't require that sort of system because we don't have that sort of system.

So every country is totally different. But I will say that there are a lot of other peer countries that have almost as many vaccines recommended as ours. So Australia, Japan, et cetera. So we're not much of an outlier. I don't think. I'll also say that just because we provide the recommend the most vaccines, I don't see that as being reckless. It's a good thing.

MICHAELSON: Well, Dr. Jake Scott, stick around. We'll be back with you shortly. And when we come back, we'll have more with Secretary Kennedy on what he has to say about the current CDC vaccine recommendations.

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MICHAELSON: Welcome back to "The Story Is," I'm Elex Michaelson. On Monday, President Donald Trump issued a new executive order that would revise childhood vaccination recommendations. Health and human services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. sat down with me after that announcement supporting the President's decision to reduce the number of vaccinations required for children.

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MICHAELSON: President Trump said, I've seen proof of it where they have a vaccination. It looks like the size of a soda poured into a little child body. Size of a bottle of soda poured into a little child's body. Where is that proof?

KENNEDY JR.: Well, I suppose if you add up 94 vaccines, it's a lot of, it's a big volume.

MICHAELSON: But I think the vaccine is like (inaudible).

KENNEDY JR.: -- President Trump is concerned about that dramatic expansion of the vaccine schedule that happened in our country and not other countries where our kids are getting more than any other nation in the world. And we seem to be the sickest country. Now we don't seem to be. We are in terms of chronic disease the sickest country in the world. And many of those chronic diseases are injuries that are listed on the manufacturer's inserts as potential vaccine side effects.

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So shouldn't we do those kind of studies? Shouldn't we have the same kind of safety studies that are required for other medications?

MICHAELSON: But you said for MMR that it is safe and that there are studies on that.

KENNEDY JR.: No, what I said is it's a fact if we -- it's hard for us to make a determination of safety.

MICHAELSON: Yeah.

KENNEDY JR.: Without look of relative safety.

MICHAELSON: I mean, the CDC says that it's safe. That's the word they use on the website.

KENNEDY JR.: Well, the -- it's hard for us. It's hard for anybody to declare something safe without safety studies. And we don't have any randomized control, placebo controlled studies or their equivalent for most of our vaccines. And what we're trying to do is make sure that there is an equivalent of that so that people not understand what the risk profile is of these products as well as the benefits. A measles vaccine clearly prevents measles in 97 percent of the cases. But are there other side effects that we are not aware of.

MICHAELSON: But in terms of the measles vaccine that's something would you tell your grandkids to take it? Would you tell your kids that.

KENNEDY JR.: Well, I wouldn't, I'm not going to give medical advice to people on national television. I don't do that. I've never done that and I won't do it.

MICHAELSON: In terms of though that that idea of that that it's like a -- the size of a soda bottle. I mean, that's not accurate, right?

KENNEDY JR.: I think what President Trump is talking about is the cumulative dose of all these vaccines. You get 94 shots or 94 jabs. It is a big volume.

MICHAELSON: A shot is a 0.5 milliliters for an average shot. A soda can is 500 to 600 milliliters. I mean it's not even close.

KENNEDY JR.: Yeah. I mean the question that I think Elex that you should be concerned with is the fact that none of these vaccines have been tested in placebo controlled trials. They're essentially mandated for millions of American kids without us understanding the risk profile. The hepatitis B vaccine, for example, was tested for only four days, safety tested, and with no placebo.

How do you know if that vaccine is safe? Even after you've used it for many years, you don't know. And so I think what President Trump is concerned with is that we should be able to tell the public what the risk profile is of these products as well as the efficacy of these products.

MICHAELSON: But isn't there some danger that in using language like talking about a soda bottle that that scares people into not wanting to get vaccines and when that's inaccurate people may not get them and then they may die.

KENNEDY JR.: I think people make their own assessment about whether something is the size of a soda bottle or not. Although, I don't think that that is going to have any impact on whether or not people get a vaccine. I think people are smart, and they're a lot smarter than the medium gives them credit for. They can read. They can do their own diligence and they can make up their own minds. What our job as health agency is, is to provide them the best information possible so that they can make informed choices and the right choice for their families.

MICHAELSON: What's next on the vaccine front in terms of where do you go from here and how do you expand this?

KENNEDY JR.: We're doing for the first time safety studies. There have never been safety studies for any of these products.

MICHAELSON: And when do those come?

KENNEDY JR.: We're doing them at ARPA, we're doing them at NIH, FDA, CDC, the National Toxicity Program. Imagine there's aluminum adjuvants in about half of our vaccines and there's no safety data on them. We don't know whether they're carcinogenic, teratogenic, mutagenic, or whether they're neurotoxic. And we should know those things. So we're going to find them out for the first time and we're going to be able to inform the American people.

MICHAELSON: And in terms of what do you think is the biggest misconception about you especially on this vaccines issue?

KENNEDY JR.: I think people, I'd say the generalized misconception is that I'm anti-vaccine. I'm not anti-vaccine. In fact, I'm putting hundreds of millions of dollars into developing new vaccines, for example universal flu vaccine. But the problem is, and the media is really complicit in this, if you ask any questions about vaccines, you're suddenly branded as anti-vaxx. Well, you're not allowed to say certain things, and it's your job to enforce that taboo.

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And a lot of Americans get very suspicious of that, because they see all of the advertisements on your network by these big companies that for example Pfizer which is I think one of the biggest advertisers for your network, made a $100 billion on a product that newscasters on your network were promoting and punishing people for questioning that. And so I think we have to get away from, that kind of censorship. We need to be able to have a real discussion over facts and not be pointing fingers and accusing people of violating a taboo. We should be able to talk about these things and have congenial debates.

MICHAELSON: Which is why I appreciate the fact that you're taking time to talk to us today. And just to make a real clear point on this, in terms of the measles vaccine, you say that it prevents measles and that studies have shown that it is -- it saves lives.

KENNEDY JR.: Absolutely the measles vaccine prevents measles as I said the study show that it has a 97 percent efficacy at least after I think after one dose or two doses. But so, if it's the best way, if you don't want to get measles, the best way to do that is to get vaccinated.

(END VIDEO CLIP) MICHAELSON: Before we bring in the doctor, I want to read you a statement from CNN regarding the false claim Secretary Kennedy made about CNN during our interview. The statement reads, "Advertisers play no role whatsoever in influencing our content or story selection." CNN journalists are not swayed or influenced by brands or advertisers in any way. Let's bring back into the conversation now Dr. Jake Scott from Stanford. You just listened to Secretary Kennedy claim that most vaccines lack randomized placebo controlled trials.

So for those of us that aren't doctors or scientists, first off, just make it very clear. What are placebo controlled trials?

JAKE SCOTT, INFECTIOUS DISEASES SPECIALIST, STANFORD UNIVERSITY: Yeah, thanks for asking that. So a randomized controlled trial is the fairest test that we have in medicine. So you take thousands of children, and essentially by coin flip half of them get the vaccine and half get a placebo, which is basically an inactive lookalike shot that's designed so nobody can tell it apart from the real thing.

And so nobody knows who got which, not the families, not the doctors or researchers until the study ends, right? And then you compare the two groups and any real difference between them has to come from the vaccine, right? So the claim that RFK Jr. has been making for quite some time now and that continues to go around unfortunately is the childhood vaccines were never tested this way, which is patently false. So my colleagues and I systematically searched the medical literature and we actually identified every randomized trial of trial childhood vaccines on The U.S. schedule going back to 1940 and we found more than 250 of them. And the overwhelming majority, nearly 100 percent were placebo controlled.

And so I don't know why he continues to say that they haven't been placebo controlled. And even if he used the strictest definition of a placebo, plain saline and nothing else, nearly half of the trials that we looked at used exactly that. And this entire database that we made is public, so anyone watching can open it tonight and count for themselves. And I should also say that in terms of conflicts of interest, I'm also accused of being a pharmashell, and I don't have any financial conflicts of interest. So we talked a lot about the amount of vaccines that children receive. The President suggested it was the size of a soda bottle. The Secretary said that his kids got 94 doses. How many doses does the average child get?

MICHAELSON: Yeah. Great question. So let me give the parents out there the real number. And I think most parents know that the number is not 94, because the numbers being thrown around I think do deserve some scrutiny. So counting each needle once, a child who gets everything on the schedule, including a flu shot every single year, receives roughly 55 injections spread across 18 years. And that works out to be about three a year. The bigger figures get there by counting every disease inside a combination shot as a separate dose and by projecting yearly COVID shots that ironically this administration itself actually took off the schedule, right?

[00:50:00] So the Secretary says his own kids got 94, and I've genuinely tried to figure out how he arrived at that number, and it just -- I can't get there. So it doesn't appear in his own department's report, and I can't reproduce it under any counting method. So -- but here's the context that I think surprises people. Kids today get more injections than kids did in the 1980s, but dramatically less immune stimulation, about 95 percent less. So vaccines work through these proteins called antigens, which are the pieces of a germ that teach the immune system what to fight. And the old vaccines contained far more. I mean, the old whooping cough vaccine itself contained 3,000 of them, and today's entire schedule combined contains roughly a 165.

MICHAELSON: We know that some vaccines do contain tiny amounts of aluminum adjuvants. This is something the Secretary was talking about, which are intended to boost the body's immune response to them. Could those cause cancer or birth defects, genetic damage, neurological disorders as the Secretary is implying they might?

KENNEDY JR.: I think the Secretary is very familiar with one particular large Danish study that looked at this and found absolutely no statistically significant link between aluminum adjuvants and any chronic disease in children. Aluminum adjuvants, we know quite a lot about them. And I think he said that they're in MMR vaccines, which is actually not true because MMR is a live vaccine and the weakened virus in those vaccines is enough to stimulate the immune response.

So aluminum adjuvants are used to strengthen the immune response. MMR doesn't contain any aluminum adjuvants. But I think the long-term study that he's asking for was actually published last year. So Danish researchers looked at over a million children and followed them for up to two decades. And they looked at 50 different conditions, including autism spectrum disorder, and they found no link between aluminum and vaccines in any of those conditions. And aluminum adjuvants have been used for 90 years or so. And there is a massive amount of data that doesn't show any link between their use and diseases.

MICHAELSON: Dr. Jake Scott, thank you so much for sharing your perspective. And I hope everybody at home feels a little more informed after hearing from you and from Secretary Kennedy. I really appreciate it.

Much more ahead on "The Story Is" including an update on the Indonesia earthquake. We're live in the region at the top of the hour.

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MICHAELSON: Welcome back to "The Story Is." I'm Elex Michaelson, let's take a look at today's top stories. Federal prosecutors will pursue fewer charges as they try for a second time to convict a man accused of starting the most destructive wildfire in Los Angeles history.

The second trial of Jonathan Rinderknecht is set to start in the fall. A jury deadlocked on his 1st trial in June. He's accused of starting the Palisades fire last year.

The second double murder trial of disbarred attorney Alex Murdaugh will be moved out of his home county in South Carolina. A judge ruled on Friday that the concerns he can't get an impartial retrial are valid. She also ruled that prosecutors can introduce testimony from his first trial in which he was found guilty of murdering his wife and son.

President Donald Trump is asking the U.S. Supreme Court to approve the construction of his controversial White House ballroom. The request comes after lower courts ruled Mr. Trump needs approval from Congress before the project moves forward. President says the ballroom is needed for national security among other things. Mystery surrounds a newly discovered treasure chest in Belgium. Construction workers found that the wooden chest while renovating a brewery in East Flanders, dozens of gold bars and hundreds of coins were instead.

Inside, the value estimated at 9 million euros or nearly $10.5 million. The owner of the property called police. Investigators are trying to figure out who owns the gold and who buried it. What a story that is.

Thanks for watching the first hour of "The Story Is." The next hour starts right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Live from Los Angeles, "The Story Is" with Elex Michaelson.

MICHAELSON: I'm Elex Michaelson live in Los Angeles. Coming up, "The Story Is" deadly earthquake in Indonesia. It is a race against the clock as rescue workers dig through the rubble. We go live to the region.

"The Story Is" the USS Abraham Lincoln crew suffering major issues as President Trump says its eight month deployment hasn't lasted long enough. Our political panel is standing by live.

and "The Story Is" Luigi Mangione pleads guilty. What he said in court about killing a top health care insurance executive and what comes next for his case.