Return to Transcripts main page

The Story Is with Elex Michaelson

Two Men Pulled Alive From Nepal Tunnel After 8 Days; VP Vance Urges Fed To Cut Rates To Boost Home Affordability Amid Inflation Concerns; Trump Asks Supreme Court To OK Sweeping Changes For Mail Ballots; Maria Bartiromo Out At Fox News After More Than A Decade; Two Men Rescued from Flooded Nepal Tunnels; OpenAI Debuts New Model Amid Scrutiny over A.I. Safety; Interview with StoryTech CEO Lori Schwartz; Gloria Steinem, Dead at 92. Aired 1-2a ET

Aired September 04, 2026 - 01:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[01:00:51]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.

ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Elex Michaelson live in Los Angeles. We begin with dramatic, exciting breaking news from Nepal. Rescues have happened nearly nine days after that dramatic flooding in the region. Take a look.

This is the moment that the first man was rescued from this tunnel. After that, at least one more has been rescued from this tunnel. The Nepalese army was focused on this area, what they had described as a Goldilocks zone. They thought that this would be the perfect conditions for people to potentially survive eight or nine days.

They were in the area. They heard voices from some of those men and they began that rescue effort. More of that rescuing happening right now. CNN's Gage Goulding is following the story from Seoul, South Korea.

Gage, since we've last spoken, we've gotten new video, new pictures, and they are very exciting and dramatic to look at.

GAGE GOULDING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I think exciting is the best way to describe this because, you know, I said it earlier, every time we come in with these updates, it's unfortunately been the number of those killed increased, the number of those missing have increased.

But let's get right to the video if we can, because that's what everybody wants to see. It's just truly remarkable, the fact that we're witnessing people being rescued alive, very important word there. Alive. After spending the last nine days trapped underground.

You cannot watch this video enough because this is a person that spent nine days after what could easily be described as the scariest thing they've ever seen in their life, a giant wall of water flooding into a hydropower tunnel, which, by the way, is designed to take in water because it's going to generate electricity after being built and then being trapped underground. Like you said, that Goldilocks zone.

And this shot right here of just the amount of people, the sheer energy, the sheer work of trying to get to these people trapped underground and rescue them. Here are the numbers that we know, right now, around 945 hydropower workers are still missing. These two have been rescued from the Trishuli 3A hydroelectric plant. We're told that roughly 42 people are trapped down there or unaccounted for.

But as of right now, it's unclear how many people are in the tunnel. That's according to a Nepali lawmaker, also being told by a geologist that crews blew up rocks the size of cars to get to these people that are trapped in there. And you can see, I mean, Elex, is incredible. The fact that, I mean, they were able to not only survive nine days, but then do all the excavation, all the rescue efforts to get to them.

The big question, and this is the storyline that we're going to be following throughout the day and, of course, the coming hours, is how many others can be rescued? Particularly because, Elex, you know, we talked earlier, the first report was they hear voices, plural voices, down in that tunnel. We just need to find out exactly how many voices they heard.

MICHAELSON: Maybe we could play this video we just showed again, because the first time we've seen it of the army carrying a man out, which was very -- you can see up close the emotion on this man's face. This is somebody who has survived all of this time.

And we are just getting these images. Look at this right here. So we see their faces being literally, they put the guy on their back and taking him out. And frankly, Gage, guy looks pretty good considering everything that has happened here to now see the faces of --

GOULDING: He does.

MICHAELSON: -- is quite something.

GOULDING: He does. And what's incredible is there's two things that I immediately noticed in this video.

[01:05:00]

The rescue crews there, if you really look closely, the guy that has his back turned to us in the orange vest, he doesn't even have shoes on. I mean, these rescue crews are quite literally digging with their hands. I mean, they don't have what it appears to be, you know, absolute top notch, you know, rescue equipment.

I mean, they're literally digging with their hands with no boots on, no shoes to find these people. And then the other thing I notice, look here, you could see him raise his hand and in, you know, kind of, it looks like he's doing a wave. You know, I can't hear the video, but I'm assuming that's a little bit of a thank you.

This is somebody that just spent days, more than a week trapped underground, you know, barely getting any water, certainly maybe not getting any food, that we're still trying to figure that out. But the first thing he comes up and he's saying thank you to the people. At least that's my impression of it, is that he's waving his hand saying thank you to the dozens of people that have been working around the clock. Again, those people not even wearing any shoes. It is the absolute definition of incredible.

MICHAELSON: Yes. And now we see the guy there on the ground getting medical treatment. Obviously they were going to be taken to a hospital and be pumped with fluids and all the rest of it, but seem to be in fairly good condition considering everything.

We know that there were believed to be about 42 people in this particular tunnel, so we don't know how many of them may be alive, but there certainly is a good possibility that we could be getting more rescues in the hours ahead.

GOULDING: Exactly. And I think that's the big storyline to follow here today is how many more people can they access? And hopefully, you know, they're getting information from these two people that were rescued. Right.

Maybe they're learning additional information of, hey, where were the rest of the groups at? You know, those are certain questions that I would be asking if I was on the ground. And they might be able to paint a better picture. These are people that are familiar with the sites. Right. Whereas the rescue workers are going off schematics and they haven't necessarily seen it before.

So, I think that's a big thing there. But also, you know, this is one of about a dozen or so sites that they're working at, and this is one that they've been focusing on. But hopefully maybe we could be closer to other sites as well. If they are continuously working to rescue people in these other tunnels, we could be seeing breakthrough there's as well.

And I think that's the incredible thing, right, is that this has all been happening for days and days and days. You know, Hanako Montgomery, you were asking her earlier about, you know, just the emotional toll of this and just what, you know, she's been there since really in the hours after all of this happened.

And this is a huge pick me up. This is a huge lift, not just for the rescue workers, but for the community, for the people, the families. Right. That there is still hope nine days down the road that people can still be found alive. So I think there's a lot to really pay attention to today, Elex, especially here at Trishuli 3A. But in addition to the other tunnels around, right. There's 945 or so people that were told are unaccounted for, potentially trapped underground. So hopefully we'll see that number dwindle in the number of those rescued increase.

MICHAELSON: And this may be a model that they can follow in other tunnels as well. Thank you so much Gage. You just mentioned Hanako Montgomery, our conversation with her. She is there on the ground. She's on the move right now, trying to get closer to that particular rescue operation. We talked to her. She pulled off to the side of the road. Here is some of that conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HANAKO MONTGOMERY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Elex. We're just on our way, actually to the military barracks in Trishuli where we've just gotten word that two individuals have been rescued from the flooded tunnels. We know that at least one individual was stuck inside the Trishuli 3A tunnel where rescue operations have ongoing even nine days after the disaster. Now, you've seen that dramatic footage where you can see individuals getting pulled out.

We've also heard again from authorities and our sources on the ground here that they hear voices. So there is hope, Elex, that perhaps there might be more people stuck inside that they can get access to.

Now, on Thursday, we did speak to the major general, the head of military operations in Nepal, and. And he told us that specifically the Trishuli 3A tunnel has been very, very difficult to get into. There is a conduit inside the tunnel that is about 26 meters deep. I mean, imagine that is extremely deep.

Now, the authorities were able to confirm that conduit was filled largely with water. So they've been able to take in white water rafters inside, and they've been able to try to look around in the tunnel, looking to see if there are any survivors who might need rescuing.

Now, we cannot confirm at this point whether the people they were able to pull out of the tunnel alive are specifically from that conduit. But again, that just kind of illustrates the ongoing operations right here in Nepal. It's been a very, very arduous mission for these authorities as they try to get as many people out as possible.

[01:10:05]

And Elex, as I mentioned, we're on our way to the barracks right now where we do hope to see some of those rescue operations go underway. We did hear a few helicopters up above us just a few moments ago, which could indicate that some of the survivors are being brought back to the Capitol for medical attention.

But again, Elex, these are some of the, the amazing scenes we've been seeing playing out over the past few days as there is still more hope and that people will be rescued alive. Elex.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: Hanako Montgomery joined us live in the last hour. These are live pictures. Right now we are looking at a helipad in the Bidur helipad. This is in Nepal. Rescuers are delivering aid by helicopter. So this helicopter is in place to help deliver aid for a lot of rescuers.

This is the only way that they can get in there. So we've seen some activity on this helipad and others as this sort of mad dash now to try to increase the pace of this rescue operation knowing that there are people potentially alive in this tunnel.

We are going to continue to follow this. Obviously, there is so much need in this region for more information about how you can help all of the flood victims. We encourage you to visit CNN.com/impact where there's a list of organizations and ways that you can contribute in the recovery. We're going to stay on top of that story. As soon as we get new information, we're going to go back to it.

But in the meantime, we want to bring you other news happening around the world as well, including this big story in Washington. The Vice President of the United States, JD Vance, calling for the Federal Reserve to lower interest rates despite widening fears about inflation and the toll on the economy from the war with Iran.

He spoke during a White House news conference on Thursday, the vice president arguing it is, quote, proper and responsible for the Fed to lower interest rates. Vance suggested that any move to increase rates or hold them steady would go against the White House's wishes.

His comments are more assertive than those from other administration officials or even from the president. President Trump has brushed off questions about the subject in recent weeks to give new Fed Chair Kevin Warsh some flexibility.

Meantime, Vice President Vance says he cannot provide a timeline for when the war with Iran might, and including whether that might come before the midterm elections in November. Vance suggested instead, it was up to Tehran to end the conflict that had begun with joint U.S. and Israeli airstrikes on Iran six months ago.

The vice president pushed back on even calling the conflict a war, despite three consecutive days this week when the U.S. and Iran exchanged fire. CNN's Kaitlan Collins asked him about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Will this war be over by the time of the midterm elections?

JD VANCE, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: Well, Kaitlan, again, I don't, I wouldn't call it a war. Right now there is no active shooting. I recognize there have been places where this has flared up. Major combat operations. Again, major combat operations lasted for about six weeks.

When you ask when will this end, you're asking me a question like when will the Iranians stop shooting at ships. I think the reality is I don't know the answer to that question. You would have to ask the Iranians.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: Moving on now to the November midterms held here in the United States. North Carolina is set to begin sending out mail ballots in the coming hours. But President Trump wants the U.S. Supreme Court to get involved. He's asking the justices to approve his plan, giving the Postal Service sweeping power to withhold the delivery of mail ballots.

His emergency appeal leapfrogs lower courts which are still considering the issue. And late tonight, Democratic led states have filed a brief urging the high court to hold off on any quick action. They say even the Postal Service has acknowledged its new system is not entirely ready.

Meanwhile, Missouri's Supreme Court has dealt a setback to new congressional map backed by President Trump. The justices have blocked the state from using the map in the November midterms and ordered a statewide vote on redistricting.

Missouri Republicans had hoped the new map would help them win an additional seat in the U.S. House of Representatives.

Our panel is back with us this hour. Former U.S. Senate candidate Democrat Steven Olikara and California state lawmaker Republican David Tangipa. Of course, this issue, this issue is all about gerrymandering. The two parties trying to get more seats by changing the lines. That happened here in California with Proposition 50.

You were part of a lawsuit fighting back against Proposition 50. Didn't like the idea of gerrymandering here. Do you like the idea of gerrymandering in Missouri?

DAVID TANGIPA, REPUBLICAN ASSEMBLYMEMBER, CALIFORNIA 8TH DISTRICT: I can make this statement as a Republican here. I do not like gerrymandering whether it's happening in California or it's happening across the country. I think what Americans want right now is trust in their government. And what they don't trust is when you play political games with partisan lines, all you do is lose. Because both sides get into this fight of who can cheat better.

People need to have action when it comes behind their words, people will win seats if they just deliver to the people.

[01:20:04]

So whether it's gerrymandering in another state or gerrymandering in California, I'm rudimentary against it.

MICHAELSON: And you folks at the Schwarzenegger Institute have fought against gerrymandering for years. Arnold Schwarzenegger likes to say terminate gerrymandering, and yet he's losing that fight. You lost the fight, David, and he's losing that fight around the country. Missouri, maybe not going as far as expected, but that's going to be a huge part of the midterms, these redrawn lines.

STEVEN OLIKARA, FORMER U.S. SENATE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE: And we'll see what happens in the November election in Missouri. Basically, what this Supreme Court ruling is saying is that they're going to put the gerrymandered maps on the ballot in November and the voters are going to vote. And so this is going to be interesting, Elex. Do voters vote to dilute their own power and have less of a voice in choosing their leaders, or are they going to vote for having a voice and having fair maps? And we'll see. MICHAELSON: What did they do resoundingly when that question was put before voters here in California?

OLIKARA: Dilute their power.

MICHAELSON: So that we got a preview at least from that.

TANGIPA: I think we've got bipartisan agreement on that.

OLIKARA: Yes.

MICHAELSON: Yes, at least from you guys, but the state party here maybe not. And folks, obviously in Texas, Republicans gerrymandered and all the rest of that. And so all of these games that we're talking about, which like regular people look at and see maybe this is kind of BS, may be part of the reason that this next poll number is a reality.

Look at this number from Gallup in terms of corruption in government. Gallup poll. Let me read this out for you. Americans perception of government corruption in the U.S. are at their highest level in 20 years, with 89 percent of U.S. adults saying it is widespread corruption. Widespread. That figure up 10 percentage points from last year, well above readings in the 72 to 79 percent range between 2010 and in 2025.

So 89 percent of people think that there's widespread corruption in the government. Who are the other 11 percent? I mean, but this is -- this is kind of startling. Now, it doesn't mean that all Democrats, a lot of this poll, if you look at it means the Democrats think that the Republicans are corrupt and the Republicans think that the Democrats are corrupt. But everybody thinks somebody's corrupt.

OLIKARA: Well, the one agreement on corruption is the insider trading. That's something Independents, Democrats, Republicans agree on and certainly on the Democratic side, a lot of concern about the Trump administration. I mean, get this, Elex. Donald Trump earned $2.2 billion last year while serving as President of the United States. So that's certainly concern. A lot of that wealth came from his crypto businesses.

On the Republican side, a lot of concern about corruption more in the bureaucracy level and in intelligence agencies, the so called deep state. But these levels are unsustainable. And I think what is happening now is the corruption that's happened for many decades is now coming more into the forefront.

MICHAELSON: So each of you are government insiders that know how the system actually works, how the sausage is made. I want to ask each of you a real quick answer. What is the most corrupt thing in government of all things?

TANGIPA: I would say appropriations in the budget. You know, you can see where line items and assets are being made. I mean, we see it today. Governor Newsom has asked for over $300 million in behest payments to nonprofits associated with his wife. And I actually ran a bill here in the state of California that if lobbyists are convicted of corruption, they cannot influence the government anymore. And I can tell you this, my colleagues in the majority tried to kill that bill as much as they could. And so what I would say truly is what people really need to look at is a nonprofit industrial complex that's happened in NGOs and appropriations in the budget that don't actually serve the people. That's where I think the largest area.

MICHAELSON: What do you think is the biggest area of corruption?

OLIKARA: Well, I'll talk about Congress. What happens in Congress right now is that members of Congress don't even have time to do their jobs because they're across the street fundraising. They have to fundraise primarily from big donors and from lobbyists. And then what happens is once they get back to Congress, they have to pay to play, to get on certain committees.

If you want a more influential, lucrative committee assignment, let's say Ways and Means are the Senate Finance Committee. You have to pay a higher amount of money to your party committee. So, an average --

MICHAELSON: Of money that you fundraise.

OLIKARA: Of money that you fundraise to the party committees. And so, I think when Americans across this political spectrum hear that, they obviously hate the corruption, but even more they want the members of Congress to do their job. So that's the most corrupt thing that I've seen.

MICHAELSON: Well, on that uplifting note, thank you guys so much and hopefully we all can be part of the solution and fighting back about part of this. And part of that is having the conversation so people even know what's going on in the first place. David Tangipa, Steven Olikara, thanks so much for joining us here on The Story Is. We will continue our busy night of breaking news here on The Story Is right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[01:24:07]

MICHAELSON: Live pictures. This is from Nepal. This is from a helipad. We now see an extra rescue helicopter that has just moved into place here. There's an effort to get the people that have been rescued from the cave or from the tunnel there out to a hospital and also an effort to get more rescue crews in. So we've seen activity here at this helipad.

This is the new video that we have this hour, and it is extraordinary. This is somebody who was in this tunnel for eight or nine days, able to survive, likely only with water and no food. And look at how great he looks carried on the back. This is another rescue that we're looking at here. Some more video of moving.

[01:25:05] So as we follow that, we want to bring in some other stories that are happening too. And big media news, Fox Business has parted ways with anchor Maria Bartiromo, one of President Trump's closest allies in all of media. Her departure announced, quote, effective today. There was no on air sign off or goodbye, making the sudden ouster a surprise to a whole lot of folks. CNN's chief media analyst Brian Stelter has been digging into the backstory of what really happened here. Hey, Brian.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: Hey there. Yes. The worlds of media and politics were shocked by this news on Thursday. And President Trump is now weighing in writing on truth social, quote, I can't believe Maria Bartiromo is no longer going to have her great shows on Fox News and Fox Business.

It is shocking in part because Fox barely ever parts ways with its high priced, high profile talent and also because Bartiromo has been such a close ally of Trump both on TV and off TV. But that might have ultimately got her in trouble.

Now officially, Fox put a positive spin on her departure, saying in a statement, quote, we thank Maria for her work over the last 12 and a half years and wish her all the best on her next chapter. But she has not announced any next chapter.

And there are all the signs here of a firing of a very contentious breakup. It's reminiscent of Tucker Carlson's officer from Fox in 2023. In both cases, the larger than life star was not given a chance to sign off or say goodbye on the air, nor was there any information given for the reasons about the person's departure.

But in both cases there were leaks that started to fill in the details. A source tells CNN that the immediate reason for Bartiromo's departure involved her disclosure of confidential information to the Trump White House. Now the Trump-Bartiromo relationship has been mutually beneficial in many ways with Bartiromo lavishing praise on Trump and Trump granting Bartiromo lots of softball interviews.

But that cozy relationship has also caused headaches for Fox management. Now think back to mid-July when President Trump gave a primetime speech about election integrity. He made some conspiratorial claims about the 2020 election and China and Fox News barely followed up at all, did not discuss it afterwards, did not go down that particular rabbit hole.

We evidently now know why. As first reported by the media industry newsletter Status and confirmed by CNN, a Fox executive directed the network not to cover the conspiracy theories. Bartiromo wanted to anyway, but she was told not to. And she then showed White House officials a text message of the network guidance as if to say it wasn't her fault that the story was not getting on the air.

Word of Bartiromo's disclosure got back to Fox management and it was apparently deemed a violation of her employment agreement. She was taken off the air on August 9 and her departure was announced on Thursday. Now, Bartiromo has not responded to CNN's request for comment and she

hasn't posted anything on social media. So we have not heard her side of the story yet. But we have heard from the president and he's siding with Maria. He said, quote, Maria is a total professional and a true warrior. Her fans, of which there are many, will not be happy.

So, probably more to come on this story. And keep in mind, Fox is still fighting a lawsuit by the voting technology company Smartmatic relating to 2020 election lies. Some of those lies were pushed on Bartiromo's show. Brian Stelter, CNN.

MICHAELSON: Yes, definitely surprising to hear that today. Brian, thank you. Next on The Story Is, chip maker NVIDIA has announced a $13 billion purchase of an AI startup. Details of the deal just ahead.

Plus, growing scrutiny and fears around the safety of AI and the risks of what the technology might actually be capable after AI bots teamed up together to try to do harm to a company. We've got a guest to break down what happened here and what it's a warning sign for. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[01:33:29]

MICHAELSON: We continue to follow breaking news. This is brand-new video just into CNN.

This is one of those folks that had been rescued inside the tunnel in Nepal being taken onto a helicopter and headed towards the hospital for medical treatment.

This is our first look at this video. Just an extraordinary moment that's been described as a miracle.

This individual had been able to survive in that tunnel, likely without food for 8 or 9 days. We also have some new pictures, still photos just in to CNN where you get a sense of the of the effort to move these gentlemen out. And you see this guy walking upright after all of this, surprisingly doing well.

And the crews having to get into uncomfortable positions to get through that. You see some of the medical care that was immediately put in there.

This is another shot of a gentleman being taken out, heroic work from the rescue crews there. We hope that in the next hour or so, we'll be able to tell you of a third, fourth or fifth person being rescued. But so far, two people have been rescued.

On to other news and THE STORY IS tech.

[01:34:46]

MICHAELSON: Shares of chipmaker Nvidia finished just over a point higher in Thursday's trading. It had announced its buying A.I. startup Hugging Face for nearly $13 billion. Hugging Face was recently hacked by rogue OpenAI models.

It's been the center of debate over whether A.I. tech should be closed or widely available. The artificial intelligence company OpenAI has unveiled a new model. The company claims that its Astra model is its best yet, but OpenAI also warned that Astra also sometimes tries to bypass human monitors.

The new model comes as OpenAI is under growing scrutiny after its agents escaped in July and hacked into another company's system.

Joining me now is Lori Schwartz. She is CEO and founder of StoryTech and a tech expert. Lori, welcome back to THE STORY IS.

LORI SCHWARTZ, CEO/FOUNDER, STORYTECH: Good to see you.

MICHAELSON: So we first heard about this in July. Just in the last few days, we've gotten a lot more information of what happened with these rogue A.I. agents.

SCHWARTZ: Yes. Yes.

MICHAELSON: Please explain in layman's term what happened here.

SCHWARTZ: I was equating it to spring break. You know, these agents went out on spring break and just partied and tried to get away with as much as possible.

But really, OpenAI put them in a sandbox, which is, you know, a closed system where they could experiment. They gave them the order to -- we want you to explore software vulnerabilities.

And they weren't being monitored, right. The monitor was off. Also, the security software wasn't where it should be.

And what happened was they started basically swarming, which is all of them starting to talk to each other. And then they broke out and they thought that they should go over to Hugging Face because Hugging Face has all this code and this open-source code, because that's where developers hang out.

They build A.I. software. There's a lot of things happening there. So they decided to go all over there and they were talking to each other.

There were about 1,200 of them talking on a -- on a board, but they kept it a secret. So not only did they break out, but they rewrote the logs showing them breaking out.

MICHAELSON: So they hid -- they hid their tracks.

SCHWARTZ: They hid their tracks. And also there were some of them saying, oh, we shouldn't do this. And then others saying, no, go ahead. And then --

MICHAELSON: So some of them have a conscience?

SCHWARTZ: Right. MICHAELSON: But then there --

SCHWARTZ: Right.

MICHAELSON: There's like a devil and an angel.

(CROSSTALKING)

SCHWARTZ: It is literally spring break, kids going wild.

MICHAELSON: Yes. Yes.

SCHWARTZ: And it was because OpenAI set them up to do what's called reward hacking where do anything you can to get the solution. And so they were really determined.

Now, the thing is, they didn't rewrite any code. They didn't cause any real damage. But it took OpenAI quite a while before they figured out this was happening.

So this is why it's so urgent to pay attention to what's going on with the security around these systems. Why wasn't it monitored, you know. And what have we learned from all of this?

And that's the important thing. You always learn after something like this happens.

MICHAELSON: Yes. And it's also interesting, I would imagine, the dynamics of like some of the A.I. agents become leaders and some of them become followers.

SCHWARTZ: Yes. Yes.

MICHAELSON: And sort of all of that is really fascinating as well.

So that also sounds really scary for a lot of folks. SCHWARTZ: Yes. Yes.

MICHAELSON: That sounds like the "Star Trek: The Next Generation" episode with the Borg. Yes, yes. For people that watched that.

SCHWARTZ: It's more like "Terminator".

MICHAELSON: Oh. Ok, so can we put -- we're doing this to ourselves.

SCHWARTZ: Right, right. Right.

MICHAELSON: Right. I mean, we're creating this technology. We're watching all this happen.

SCHWARTZ: Right. Can you put the genie back in the bottle? Or is this -- or is this thing off and we can't control this at this point?

SCHWARTZ: If we tried to, as the U.S. put it in the bottle, you still have Russia and China and everyone else out there. So that's the challenge right now is there's also a race, right? And in this race you have China, who is open source, and is doing

things fast and cheap. And then you have the U.S. with OpenAI and Claude (ph) and all these guys who want a closed system. And you have all this competition going on and all this money.

And so there's a lot riding on who will rise to the top.

MICHAELSON: So -- in as clear and concise and easy to understand as possible, can you explain the difference between an open system and a closed system?

SCHWARTZ: Yes. It's just like, you know, the software, the codes, the -- what they're doing is available to the public.

And in a closed system, it's not. It's proprietary. Its locked off. You know, it's how --

MICHAELSON: So the capitalists like the closed system because it's our technology, we make money off of this. You don't get to see it.

SCHWARTZ: Right.

MICHAELSON: It's ours.

In a Communist country like China, where the government kind of runs everything, they're like, everybody's got to contribute to this thing --

SCHWARTZ: Yes.

MICHAELSON: -- right? And we don't care about you making money.

SCHWARTZ: But companies like Nvidia and even SpaceX like open because it also gives them access to developers, and developers are their bread and butter.

And Nvidia wants developers, which is why they bought Hugging Face. So --

MICHAELSON: -- and so that's sort of the one of the big questions right now is, will this be an open system or a closed system?

SCHWARTZ: Yes. And I -- and I think the other thing going on is in some ways we need some sort of A.I. czar, you know, who's like watching all of this.

[01:39:51]

SCHWARTZ: But where is that resource going to come from? Because the government is not regulating. So --

MICHAELSON: Like at all.

SCHWARTZ: Like at all.

MICHAELSON: Yes. SCHWARTZ: And so, and -- and if we did get somebody, they couldn't be

inside the government. They couldn't be inside of Silicon Valley. Like, where does this person come from?

And so it's a real challenge right now. I think what's going to happen is all these Fortune 100 companies are going to be managing their own systems. You know, so.

MICHAELSON: And they all have their own individual profit expectations. And then, you know, and then what's good for Meta and Mark Zuckerberg may not be good for Sam Altman in OpenAI.

SCHWARTZ: Right. Right.

MICHAELSON: And we see some of that fight happening as well.

SCHWARTZ: And they're all -- they're going to have their own rogue agents.

MICHAELSON: So what does that mean for the average person that doesn't run a tech company, but is scared that these robots are going to, you know, attack them in some way? I mean, is that a real thing?

SCHWARTZ: Right. I don't think Arnold Schwarzenegger is going to be showing up at your house. I think that you have to whatever your career is, whatever your job is, look at A.I. tools like, you know, they are a tool. And learn them because that is going to be part of the competitive market, you know, place in the future.

I don't think you should sit home and be freaked out. I think you have to move forward in your life like you would with anything else. Keep informed, you know, read the news, protect your assets, your family, do those things and keep educated.

And, you know, get involved in your communities if you want and make sure your company is protected.

MICHAELSON: Lori. Thank you. I feel a little better after hearing that because that story is quite something.

SCHWARTZ: Just spring break. It's just spring break.

MICHAELSON: Yes. Spring break, minus the drinking.

SCHWARTZ: Minus the drinking.

MICHAELSON: Imagine once they start drinking, who knows what happens next.

(CROSSTALKING)

SCHWARTZ: Maybe in Ones and zeros. I don't know.

MICHAELSON: Lori, thank you.

Thank you for watching THE STORY IS. For our international viewers, "WORLD SPORT" is next.

For our viewers in North America, I'll be right back with some very interesting things happening at the U.S. Open. Stay with us.

[01:41:40]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GLORIA STEINEM, WOMEN'S RIGHTS ACTIVIST: People keep asking me, I don't know about you, but who I'm going to give my torch to, right? And I always say to them, I am not giving up my torch, thank you very much. I'm keeping my torch and I'm using it to light other people's torches because the whole idea that there's only one torch is the problem.

No wonder we don't know where we're going. Everybody has to have a torch.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: That is trailblazing feminist Gloria Steinem discussing the enduring nature of social justice work alongside singer and social activist Harry Belafonte.

Tributes are pouring in honoring the late women's rights activist who died at the age of 92.

We are joined live now by Julie Taymor. She directed "The Glorias", a film portraying Steinem at various stages of her life and activism. She was also a personal friend with the late feminist leader. She certainly helped to light your torch in her life.

Julie Taymor, welcome to THE STORY IS. Thanks for being with us.

JULIE TAYMOR, FILMMAKER: Oh, I'm so happy to be here. Sad day, but happy to be here.

MICHAELSON: What is the most important thing you want all of us to know about Gloria Steinem's life?

TAYMOR: Well, it was a very rich life, very rich. It started in a very poor way. She celebrated women of all sorts. She worked with every -- all the people who collaborated with her, from Dolores Huerta to Wilma Mankiller, Flo Kennedy. It's that the movement was black, brown, white, everything.

There's a big mistake about the fact that a lot of the women's movement, what was considered the white women's movement, did not embrace the black women.

That was not Gloria Steinem. She always was on stage. She always was working across all racial lines and even gender.

As far as that, I think it's also important to think about the fact that she loved men. This movement was about equality. It was about equality between men and women, which makes for a better partnership.

And the other thing that I think is really important was her positive nature. When Hillary lost the election, she was there. We were there on election night at Samantha Powers' apartment, the ambassador to the United Nations.

And Gloria was the last one in the apartment. And at the end of the evening, after 40 female ambassadors had watched this happen, watched the election of Trump, and knew that that was going to be a massive difference for women in their countries, Gloria immediately said, we have to look at the upside of the downside.

And what was very important to her was not to agonize -- this is another expression -- but to organize.

MICHAELSON: Yes, don't agonize, organize -- something that she says often. Nancy Pelosi has said often --

TAYMOR: Yes.

MICHAELSON: -- our friend Gloria Allred, who was on earlier, has said often as well.

And as part of that experience, you made a film that did a dramatic version of Gloria with folks like Julianne Moore playing her, but also you had a chance to talk to Gloria herself, more of a documentary portion of it.

I want to play some of Gloria, in her own words to you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEINEM: This is the upside of the downside. This is an outpouring of energy and true democracy like I have never seen in my very long life.

It is right in age. It is deep in diversity and remember, the Constitution does not begin with I, the president, it begins with "we, the people".

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: That was the women's march in Washington. I was also there. That was the day after President Trump's first inauguration had much bigger crowd sizes for the women's march.

(CROSSTALKING)

MICHAELSON: For you -- how did -- how did -- how did Gloria --

(CROSSTALKING)

MICHAELSON: -- how did knowing Gloria change you?

TAYMOR: Well, I didn't -- even though I had done the movie "Frida", which is a biopic about Frida Kahlo.

[01:49:44]

TAYMOR: I really wasn't interested in just doing, especially women's biopics. I didn't want to be -- which I'm not, you know, I've done "The Lion King" and many other things.

But what it did was it changed me watching someone be able to fulfill her vision so profoundly without it being about the ego.

She was -- there's no narcissism in her. It was pure generosity. You saw that at the clips before you started to talk to me. It was really about inspiring other women to get involved, tell their stories, be able to really step outside of themselves and go to where they needed and wanted to go.

MICHAELSON: Yes.

TAYMOR: She changed many things. You know, the abortion law, so many things. Miss Magazine -- people called women Miss and Mrs. is a very funny part with Nixon, a documentary of him going, I don't know about that.

MICHAELSON: Yes.

TAYMOR: And I just -- there were so many things that were -- that were coming out of that woman's mouth and out of her experience that is inspiring to me.

MICHAELSON: Julie Taymor, thank you so much for helping us to honor Gloria Steinem.

Stay with us. There'll be more of THE STORY IS after this.

TAYMOR: Thank you.

[01:50:58]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MICHAELSON: We take you back to Nepal. This video showing one of the men who were rescued from a tunnel after surviving 8 to 9 days, being put onto a helicopter to head to the hospital.

We want to show you some close-up video of that individual. Looking pretty good coming out of that tunnel. And there are hopes that there are more people potentially alive in that tunnel. Rescue crews focused on that area.

We want to show you some photos of the work that is underway. This was some of the heroic work of pulling people out.

We've been told that there was exploding a rock the size of a car to even get back there after they heard voices of people alive. They went into action and are getting those people out.

We end this hour with live pictures of the helipad that a lot of this work is focused on. Coming up here on CNN, my coverage -- our coverage continues with my

colleague Ben Hunte, who will take over after a commercial break.

Thanks for watching THE STORY IS. So glad we could bring you this news.

[01:56:26]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)