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The Story Is with Elex Michaelson
U.S. Primaries Wrap Up as Focus Shifts to November Midterms; 7 House Republicans Joins Dems in Vote to Rein in Trump's War; Protests Against Soaring Fuel Costs; A.I. Safety Risks Spark Bipartisan Public Safety Concerns; Dems Probe Oligarch Funding of Trump Jr.'s Wedding Celebrations; U.S. Military Confirms It Has Deployed Weapons in Space. Aired 12-1a ET
Aired September 16, 2026 - 00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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LAURA COATES, CNN HOST: Thank you all for watching. "THE STORY IS ELEX MICHAELSON" is next.
ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Elex Michaelson live in Los Angeles.
Coming up, THE STORY IS the midterm election is here. We just wrapped up the final primary of 2026. Now it's a full on sprint until November.
THE STORY IS the economy. Protests breaking out around the world as fuel prices reach new highs. The Federal Reserve about to meet in the coming hours. Are your interest rates about to go up?
And THE STORY IS odd couple. Bernie Sanders and Steve Bannon joining forces to warn about the dangers A.I. poses to the American public.
ANNOUNCER: Live from Los Angeles, THE STORY IS with Elex Michaelson.
MICHAELSON: And we start with politics. And for the final time this primary season, it's election night in America. The final primary of the season is in Delaware. And in the race for U.S. Senate CNN projects Democratic incumbent Chris Coons will clinch his party's nomination. It wasn't that close, as you can tell, winning with 78 percent of the vote. He's expected to face Republican Mike Katz, a former state senator, in the November race.
Meanwhile, the Trump administration is now reacting to the Supreme Court's decision on Monday to reject the president's plans to restrict mail-in voting. Attorney General Todd Blanche said the Justice Department would comply with the ruling, but insisted that the administration will keep pursuing alternative paths towards voter reform. President Trump, though, slammed the court's decision, doubling down on his assertions that the mail-in ballots are, quote, "corrupt."
On Capitol Hill, FBI director Kash Patel grilled by lawmakers during testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee. Topics included the Epstein files, an alleged purging of agents who worked on cases against President Trump, and controversial new changes to FBI job applications. Patel also would not rule out sending agents to election polling sites.
And Republican lawmaker Thomas Massie blindsided his party with a push to impeach Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth. In his 34-page resolution, which appears to have been in the works for weeks, Massie argues that Hegseth has repeatedly abused the powers of his office in leading the U.S. in its war with Iran.
Speaking of that, just in the last few hours, the House voted for a third time to approve a measure that would require the president to end his war with Iran. The vote saw three more Republicans, seven in total, joined the Democrats' effort to end the war, including two Republicans from Iowa who are in close races right now.
Let's dive into all of this with our political panel with us, Melanie Mason, the California bureau chief for "Politico," former House Democrat Katie Porter is back, and Republican strategist Matt Klink.
What a group we've got here.
Matt, as a Republican, let's start with you. Why are some of these Republicans now voting against this war? And what do you make of the fact that Iowa Republicans, who are in very close races, are saying, sorry, Mr. President?
MATT KLINK, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: The last part of that is the most important part of that because of their close political races, and they know the data in their districts, and they believe that it's the right vote to make. They also know it's going to go nowhere because even if the Senate passes it, Trump would veto it. So, you know, they're going to look like they're supporting what the local district wants, but they're still going to be held responsible for Donald Trump. So I don't know what it gets them.
MICHAELSON: But still, yes, going against the president is a tough thing. But it shows that the tide may be turning a little bit.
KATIE PORTER, FORMER U.S. HOUSE DEMOCRAT: Yes. I mean they may get punished by Trump in some other way, although at this point, I think having President Trump just sort of disavow you may actually be helpful in a place like Iowa. I actually, you know, I kind of thought a few years ago Iowa was maybe a lost cause and we were going to see it be red for a long time. I think it's very much back in play.
So I think these two races are very close. And I think the reality is just people don't want this war across party lines. People may not want to punish Trump for it or vote Democrat because of it, but I'm not meeting really anybody who is enthusiastic about the war.
KLINK: They don't want Iran to have the weapon. They don't want Iran to be the largest state sponsor of terror, but they don't want the war. So that's the --
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MICHAELSON: Yes. And they don't want the higher gas prices that come with the war as well.
KLINK: Correct.
MICHAELSON: Of course you are a daughter of Iowa and understand that state. Let's talk about big picture in terms of the midterms. No big surprises in Delaware. We weren't expecting that tonight, but we all have been together in various forms throughout this process of the midterm primaries. Now, the general election is officially here all over the country. What do you think is the biggest lesson, Melanie, that voters have been sending through the primaries? And what does that tell us about what to expect for November?
MELANIE MASON, CALIFORNIA BUREAU CHIEF, POLITICO: Well, I think it depends on which party's primary you're talking about. I think what we've seen with the Democrats is that this is a party in a full identity crisis right now. And so we've seen some races where the progressives have really sort of taken charge. And we're having all of these conversations about what direction the party is going in.
And in some cases, incumbents or moderates seem to be, you know, more victorious. And so it's almost a choose-your-own-adventure kind of thing.
On the Republican side, I think there's no such identity crisis because it's the same as we've seen. If Donald Trump endorses you, the primary voters, the Republicans are going to line up with them. And so the question now is, do Donald Trump-endorsed Republicans perform well in these, you know, general elections in this potentially Democratic wave year?
MICHAELSON: Where do you see the voters right now?
PORTER: I think we're going to see a blue wave, but I think we should maybe talk about it as more of a blue ripple. And the reason I say that is not that I think voters are thinking about Republicans or considering Republicans. I think we're seeing some of the strongest polling that we've seen in the Generic Congressional Ballot favoring Democrats that we've seen in recent years. It's very similar to what it was in 2018.
MICHAELSON: When you won.
PORTER: When I won. I think the difference is there's just not as many swing seats as there were. So I want to temper expectations. If you're out there rooting for Democrats and you want there to be a blue wave, it's just not going to be that big of a wave because it just -- there's not that much room for the waves to come in to shore because of all that gerrymandering.
MICHAELSON: Right. And that's made a big impact. So there may not be as many seats in play, but yet Democrats are on the offensive, especially in the Senate races, which are places that really Republicans should be winning this time around.
KLINK: They are. But it's still a tossup. I mean, the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party -- the base doesn't like the Democratic Party. They poll poorly. Trump faces --
MICHAELSON: The Democratic base.
KLINK: Correct.
MICHAELSON: Does not like the establishment Democratic Party.
KLINK: The establishment. Donald Trump faces massive headwinds. The generic ballot is 6 to 8 for the Democrats. In 2018 that translated to 41 seats. That's not going to happen this time. So I mean, you're looking at potentially -- I mean, my friends in D.C. that are running Republican races, they still have hope that they can hold the House and keep the Senate. So but --
PORTER: You make me want to run to one of those political betting sites listening to you and bet against you.
(CROSSTALK)
KLINK: But, Katie, you laugh, though, but the idea that this is going to be a blue wave, I think that some of those candidates are smoking something that is illegal in many states.
PORTER: I only hope that we can be back on election night so that I can gloat.
MICHAELSON: Yes.
KLINK: I will eat my crow.
PORTER: You're always very good about that, Matt. I'll always give that to you.
MICHAELSON: He's a good crow eater apparently. Meanwhile, you know, before we get to election night, people have to vote. And the big issue continues to be election security. We've seen the Trump administration continue to bring this issue up. Kash Patel, the FBI director, on Capitol Hill being grilled on that issue today. Let's watch some of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): Would you agree with me that the FBI has no general authority to monitor elections?
KASH PATEL, FBI DIRECTOR: That priority rests with DHS.
BLUMENTHAL: So you would agree with me that deploying FBI agents to the polls on election day would be contrary to law?
PATEL: I don't know that we can't legally do it. I'm telling you, we're going to house our agents and intel analysts in our field offices for election security.
BLUMENTHAL: Well, I'm -- SEN. PETER WELCH (D-VT): do you pledge that you will not in any way
interfere in the will of the American people when they go to the polls in November?
PATEL: I pledge unequivocally that I will not participate in your charade of lies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: So this is an unusual way for an FBI director to testify up on the Hill, as we've seen with a lot of different Trump administration officials.
MASON: Well, that's right. I mean, it's unusual, except in the Trump administration. And I think that this sort of back and forth really shows how these congressional hearings are not necessarily the place where we're going to get a lot of clarity now because --
MICHAELSON: Or any information almost ever.
MASON: Or any information. Because their goal is not to clarify. Their goal is to put on a performance, and that's for President Trump. And so you're seeing FBI Director Patel, that is an audience of one when he's going back and forth with Senator Welch, for example, and that may please Trump. But I think for the rest of us that are trying to understand where exactly the FBI stands right now when it comes to will they be at polling places, it seems clear as mud.
MICHAELSON: But it also seems like some of these Democratic officials are putting on a bit of a performance as well.
KLINK: They're going to be -- yes.
[00:10:02]
Melanie, the FBI is going to be stationed at FBI field offices around the United States like they normally would. That was the answer to it. And the response is it's not for a party of one. Every single senator on that dais is performing for social media clicks. The hearings are -- they're political theater. They're completely useless for anybody. I watched a big chunk of that hearing. The stuff that he -- that Cory Booker and Adam Schiff engaged in was deplorable. So --
MICHAELSON: Well, there's only one person on this panel who's actually participated in one of these things.
PORTER: Yes, I mean --
MICHAELSON: Who got a lot of clicks out of doing it. So your thoughts on there.
KLINK: There were substance when you did it.
PORTER: I invoke been on the dais, and I've also testified before Congress. Before I ran, I was a witness, I don't know, five or six times on the substance of my research. I actually think hearings are important. And I think pushing witnesses is important. And I think witnesses owe a duty. One of the last bills I worked on in the last Congress was on some more rules around trying to make these hearings better and more substantive.
This is one of the few times that the American people get to see their elected officials at work. Right? I mean, the vote is fairly not transparent as to why people did it. And so I think they matter. I think the fact that he could not say that he will not interfere in the will of the American people is appalling. Absolutely appalling. He did say the agents will be at the field offices, which is where they work.
KLINK: Which they are anyway,
PORTER: Where they should be.
KLINK: Yes.
PORTER: But to say that you will not interfere with the will of the people in casting their ballot is absolutely disgusting.
MICHAELSON: Yes.
KLINK: I would instruct my client not to answer that question. Why would you give the senator that soundbite? You know it's political theater. Why would you give the senator that soundbite? Never in a million years would I --
PORTER: Let me -- let me remind you of something that congressional hearings are not depositions. And you don't get to just willy nilly object and have a judge sort it out. You take an oath --
KLINK: Oh, so you have to answer the question that they ask you all the time?
PORTER: You take an oath --
KLINK: Come on.
PORTER: You take an oath to answer the questions. These are federal elected officials. They have a duty to come before Congress.
KLINK: They all obfuscate and don't answer questions.
PORTER: Congress has oversight authority in the Constitution to question these elected officials. And both parties do it. I think it's important when it happens. I sat in Congress with Republicans questioning Biden administration officials, and I thought it was often very helpful and important to do that.
KLINK: Even when they didn't answer.
MICHAELSON: Yes. Well, there's more to get into. Clearly you guys got a lot to say. So later in this hour, Melanie Mason, Katie Porter, Matt Klink will all be back to talk about A.I., which continues to dominate the discussion. I'm really interested to hear your thoughts on that and where the politics of that is going. But we want to get to a breaking news story here in Los Angeles that
is just so sad. A helicopter has crashed about 25 miles from downtown Los Angeles. According to one CNN affiliate, the aircraft was a news station chopper. The L.A. Fire Department says at least three people died, and a fourth person was taken to the hospital. It's still not clear how many people were on board the helicopter.
The chopper went down between two commercial buildings and caused a fire after it landed near several cars and two large cargo containers. The NTSB and the FAA will be leading the investigation into how this happened. The station, NBC4 Los Angeles, is not confirming that it was its chopper. It is saying that they have not been able to reach their chopper pilots. It is unclear exactly why this happened. Some veteran chopper pilots have suggested that there was potentially an engine problem in what happened here.
It is a -- they were reporting on a deadly bus crash at the time where at least two people died in a bus crash. As they were pulling away from that scene, the chopper went down. And now you're looking at the aftermath of that. As somebody who spent nearly two decades working in local news in this town and knows so many people at our stations, sending love from CNN and from all of us to our local news community.
This is such a sad story.
Still ahead this hour, the Fed prepares to hand down a potentially pivotal rate decision as persistently high inflation clouds the outlook. I'll discuss with a former top economic adviser to three different presidents. Plus protests around the world against the soaring cost of fuel from France and Portugal to Syria, Guatemala and the Philippines. People are angry over higher energy prices driven by the U.S. war with Iran.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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MICHAELSON: THE STORY IS the U.S. economy. The Federal Reserve is expected to raise interest rates on Wednesday amid concerns about persistently high inflation. It would be the Fed's first move higher in three years, and could signal the start of a new hiking cycle over the next few months.
The Fed meeting comes as a federal budget watchdog says the war with Iran is expected to cause a spike in U.S. inflation in the first quarter of 2027. The Congressional Budget Office says the war will add roughly half a percentage point to inflation, largely due to higher energy costs. Meantime, the bond market selloff is raising the stakes for the Fed meeting. The 10-year treasury yield topped 5 percent during trading on Tuesday, its highest level in 19 years.
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Anti-war protesters interrupted Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent several times as he testified before House lawmakers on Capitol Hill on Tuesday. Bessent has been leading the Trump administration's efforts to squeeze Tehran economically, and he defended the president's handling of the war. Lawmakers on the House Financial Services Committee grilled the Treasury secretary on the economy, as well as high prices stemming from the Iran war. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. AYANNA PRESSLEY (D-MA): Since the war started, gas prices are up 52 percent. Yes or no, are you aware of that?
SCOTT BESSENT, TREASURY SECRETARY: Gas prices are up --
PRESSLEY: Gas prices are up 52 percent since the war started. Are you aware of this issue? Yes or no?
BESSENT: From what to what? I think that's not a good number.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: Skyrocketing fuel prices have sparked protests around the world. Over the weekend, Syria saw its largest demonstration since the fall of the Assad regime. Protesters burned tires, stomped on fuel tankers and on a busy highway after the government raised diesel prices roughly 40 percent and petrol by nearly 30 percent.
In the south of France, dozens of fishermen blocked a major fuel depot on Tuesday, in part to protest rising fuel costs. Protesters have also taken to the streets in Portugal, Guatemala, and the Philippines in recent days.
Joining me now is Gene Sperling. He is the former coordinator for the White House American Rescue Plan and was a senior adviser to President Biden. He was also the National Economic director during both the Clinton and Obama administrations. A top adviser to three U.S. presidents.
Great to have you live here on THE STORY IS. Welcome back.
GENE SPERLING, FORMER WHITE HOUSE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN COORDINATOR: Well, thanks for having me.
MICHAELSON: The Fed meeting tomorrow. What do you expect?
SPERLING: Well, I think we all expect now that the Fed will raise rates. And I will tell you this is quite a change from both the beginning of the year, even the summer. On February 28th, when diesel prices were $3.72 and gas prices were $2.98, most people were expecting that by this time a new Fed chair, Kevin Warsh, would be lowering rates.
What you're seeing now is completely the effect of the Iran war. Not just the war, but the reckless handling of the oil situation in the Strait of Hormuz. And so what I'd say is that normally the Federal Reserve would say that's just a temporary bump in prices. It's bad for people, but we're not worried it's going to lead to ongoing inflation. But when you see this war go on and on, when you see the oil infrastructure hurt, refinery capacity reserves down, they have to start saying with inflation at 3.3 percent to 3.7 percent by their favorite measure, if we don't take action, we will lose credibility with markets.
MICHAELSON: Well, because we think about the last Fed chair, Jerome Powell, and Donald Trump kept saying over and over again he wanted to fire him for one reason, because he would not lower interest rates. So the whole idea was, I'm going to bring in my guy, Kevin Warsh, even though he appointed Jerome Powell in the first term, to lower interest rates. That was the whole directive.
SPERLING: Right.
MICHAELSON: You're going to lower interest rates. And now he's raising interest rates, potentially.
SPERLING: And the truth is that on this issue, the president has no one to blame but himself because when we were first talking about Kevin Warsh becoming the new Fed chair in January or February, at that time, many market experts expected us to cut rates. What you've -- what Trump has done through his mishandling of oil and the Straits of Hormuz, and now the Red Sea is he's boxed his own, you know, nominee in. He's boxed his own chairman.
And I think Kevin Warsh really did want to wait until December after the midterms. But markets were doubting how serious he was. And when markets doubt that the Fed is serious about lowering inflation, that can lead to more inflation and even higher 10-year interest rates.
MICHAELSON: And you think this is likely not the only time they're going to raise interest rates, that more interest rates are higher?
SPERLING: This isn't just like a Gene Sperling opinion. There is a wide expectation based on history that once the Fed moves to control inflation, it's never just one and done. Markets are already expecting at least a 50 percent chance of two rate increases, one in September and one in December. And I'll tell you, I was just with a lot of very smart people, and a lot of them are expecting three or four over the next year.
MICHAELSON: Wow.
SPERLING: That is dramatically different than we had -- than what the expectation was the day before this war started.
MICHAELSON: So what does that mean for the average person watching this that may have wanted to buy a house sometime soon, or buy a car or, I mean, what does that mean for them? What's your advice to them?
SPERLING: Well, what I would say to them is that what they should have been troubled about is the overall environment now with Iran, the energy price, the rising deficit, because that is what has led to seven -- over 7 percent mortgage rates today.
[00:25:12]
And that's what's led to high inflation. And actually, in the last five, six months, the average worker is facing a decline in their real wages. So they shouldn't necessarily feel that this medicine is necessarily going to harm them. It could dampen some of the growth in the equity markets. It could take some, you know, pullback in some of the activity going on. But if it helps lower inflation, the -- you know, the high gas prices and beef prices and electricity prices, all of those things that have hurt affordability and hurt confidence so much, it could be a little tough medicine in the beginning and a little better. But the sad part is it was all completely avoidable without the mismanagement of energy and oil markets in this war.
MICHAELSON: So real quickly, you've advised three presidents. If you're advising this president, what's the most important thing to do right now to fix the economy?
SPERLING: You know, what I thought from the beginning is whether or not you thought we should go to war, I don't think we needed to, but whether or not, I thought that you had to have a strategy for the straits, and if not, you just could not let this war drag on and on. So I wish I had an advice for the president to get out of this war, achieving his goals of, you know --
MICHAELSON: Right. Nuclear.
SPERLING: But, you know, on the nuclear side or the us, you know, making sure Iran didn't control the straits. But at this point, the continuation of this war is so damaging for energy and oil markets that I do feel that they need to get out of it some way somehow. But I would say I would have lots of advice for this president if he was interested in hearing.
MICHAELSON: Well, maybe he's watching. And if the White House wants to call and give him your number.
Gene Sperling, maybe we can make that happen. Greatly appreciate it. Thank you so much for sharing your perspective.
SPERLING: Thanks for having me.
MICHAELSON: Still ahead this hour, an unlikely duo joining forces at the pro-Human Assembly as both Democrats and Republicans unify around the need to address major A.I. safety concerns. If Bernie Sanders and Steve Bannon can come together, maybe Gene Sperling and Donald Trump can, too.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MICHAELSON: Welcome back. I'm Elex Michaelson. Let's take a look at today's top stories.
[00:32:18]
Pennsylvania has reported its fourth death linked to the measles. It's the first time the U.S. has seen four measles deaths in a year since 1992. The latest victim was an unvaccinated 18-year-old who died from a rare
neurological complication that can occur after a measles infection.
The outbreak has led to a clash between state and federal officials over how measles deaths are counted. So far, the CDC has counted zero measles deaths this year.
President Trump's hand-picked Kennedy Center board has voted to temporarily shut down the performing arts venue. The move came just hours after a federal judge blocked efforts to add U.S. President Donald Trump's name to the landmark, ruling that congressional approval is required.
President Trump says the center should remain closed unless his name is restored. The administration plans to appeal that ruling.
A.I. safety risks are sparking bipartisan efforts to rein in the rapidly advancing technology. During the Pro-Human Assembly in Washington, D.C., Senator Bernie Sanders, Democratic socialist, appeared on the same stage as former Trump adviser Steve Bannon, who is not a Democratic socialist.
Both men called for urgent action, raising concerns that A.I. disproportionately benefits tech billionaires while endangering the American public. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): We are at a dangerous and unprecedented moment in world history.
STEVE BANNON, FORMER TRUMP ADVISOR: We're trying to raise above partisanship, and we have to. We have to rise above it. This is a hinge in history. We have to handle this right correctly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: Back, our panel to discuss: Melanie Mason, Katie Porter, and Matt Klink. Welcome back.
So, I remember covering a lot of folks out on the field -- I'm sure you felt this, too -- that were Bernie Sanders voters and Donald Trump voters. And both of them had one thing in common. They wanted to give a middle finger to the system and to the establishment, and often to rich people.
And you heard some of that from both Sanders and Steve Bannon. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDERS: The big tech oligarchs must no longer be allowed to determine the future of humanity.
BANNON: We can never trust what an oligarch says, because all they do, they're disingenuous and they lie.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: Congressmember, I mean this is sort of the heart of Trump's MAGA base was Steve Bannon engineering this -- this, you know, populist wing of the Republican Party. And Sanders taps into that, too.
KATIE PORTER (D), FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: I think what's interesting about this is it's so exciting politically to see Bernie Sanders and Steve Bannon. I mean, it's national news that these two are coming together.
[00:35:06]
But when you talk to actual voters and actual Americans, they're basically -- been all in this position together across the political spectrum for a long time.
So, typical Americans, regardless of party, are concerned about data centers. They're concerned about wealth inequality. They're concerned about A.I.
I think it's a -- really a function of our broken political system that we find it so exciting. And it actually is rare to see two people this politically, usually, separated coming together. I think it's a good sign for, actually, maybe solving the problem.
MICHAELSON: Well, and the, quote unquote, "oligarchs" have become an enemy for both parties.
MATT KLINK, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Yes. Although I have to tell you, I look at this a little bit differently.
I think that the statements by the two A.I. companies that they want regulation now is brilliant. It squeezes out the competition for the future.
If you're a big company, you can absorb the cost of regulation. So, they want -- please, regulate us. We'll tell you how we want to be regulated. I think it's brilliant on their part.
And I will also add, look, I'm -- everybody's ears should get perked up when you hear that something is the next existential threat. We've heard that we had 12 years with climate change. We heard that we were going to have a population bomb. We heard that we would have a food shortage.
About every 20 years, something pops up that is going to wipe out society.
Again, you can use your powers for good or evil. I think America, generally speaking, can use it for more good reasons than bad reasons. But a lot of countries in the world, they don't have the same value structure that we do.
MICHAELSON: Well, you mentioned big tech. Mark Zuckerberg, of course, leading one of the biggest tech companies in the world, Meta, posting on Threads, his platform, this: "My view is that trust and alignment are quickly becoming the most important capabilities that will differentiate agents and models. Any lab that doesn't focus on alignment will fall behind. Labs face significant liability if their models cause harm. So, they have a strong incentive to prevent this, as well."
His basic message: trust us.
MELANIE MASON, CALIFORNIA BUREAU CHIEF, "POLITICO": Right. Which is an interesting message to hear from a CEO of a company that just had to pay a massive settlement in a unrelated issue, but with regards to how they were doing their social media and sort of if -- if parents should trust them with their children.
MICHAELSON: And whether it was addictive.
MASON: Exactly. So, I think that that's a harder message for perhaps the Meta CEO to -- to put out there right now.
But I do think that, to Matt's point, you are seeing maybe these two different theories of thought from these big companies. And I think that the most interesting thing, I think, to me is how these A.I. experts tend to talk about their product.
I think they're excited about these possibilities, even potentially the doomsday possibilities. And I think, when normal people hear that and they hear, oh, there could be a greater than 10 percent chance this eliminates humanity, that doesn't sound cool. That sounds terrifying.
And I think that the way that they're going to talk about this technology really is going to impact the politics of this.
MICHAELSON: So, you just talked about them saying, please regulate us. The people that would potentially regulate them are in Congress.
Senator Thom Tillis of North Carolina, who's heading on the way out. Not too optimistic about Congress in this front. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think that senators even understand A.I., that most lawmakers --
SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): No. a lot of them can't spell it. They -- they just don't have the experience.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: (AUDIO GAP) -- on the Hill, you know how this stuff works. Are you confident that your former colleagues are ready to regulate this issue?
PORTER: So, I don't think you have to understand all of the technological processes to -- you don't have to be a coder. You don't have to be able to, you know, do the work, build the model yourself in order to understand the harms and make the policy decision about whether or not the harms are too risky.
So, when I was in Congress, Ted Lieu, California congressman, started to have some workshops about A.I.
MICHAELSON: Who is himself a former computer scientist --
PORTER: That's right.
MICHAELSON: -- has a degree in that. Unlike most people in Congress.
PORTER: He's now -- he's now on the select committee on A.I. that they've started. And so, I think that Congress does need to take this in hand.
I think the people are crying out for it. And I think you're hearing candidates, both Democrats and Republicans, when they are in living rooms, their answers on this don't sound that different.
MICHAELSON: And what is legislation that could actually pass? What do we want to see?
KLINK: I have no idea. But I think you're -- I'm not going to -- I'm not going to ignore your question. I will say the A.I. issue is manifesting itself in data centers.
And the reason why: it's because it's a comfortable place for legislators to regulate. They know what land use looks like; they know what energy use looks like; they know what water use looks like.
But to try to wrap their arms around a thinking machine that can -- that gets smarter the more you use it.
MICHAELSON: Makes sense. Smart point.
[00:40:00]
KLINK: So, I think ultimately what will happen, it's certainly not going to get solved in an election year.
But after the election year, they're going to have people like Ted Lieu and Jim Obernolte, who went to CalTech.
PORTER: Jay. Jay.
KLINK: Jay Obernolte, excuse me. I mean, you're going to get some smart people around, and they will hopefully serve as guides to bring Congress along.
Congress will do something, but they don't want to do it in a way that puts us at a strategic disadvantage to China.
MICHAELSON: I mean, there does not seem to be a clear consensus on what to do on this. And some of this is also now being left up to the states.
We saw some action here in California and other -- other states, as well, having to step up when Congress isn't.
MASON: Well, that's right. In fact, my colleagues at "Politico" today reported that New York Governor Kathy Hochul wants to sort of put New York at the forefront of these regulations, which I think is a very interesting dynamic. We've seen these states compete for sort of who can be the pace setter in other areas.
But I think that part of the reason why this is evolving is so difficult for people to wrap their minds around is because the -- the A.I. sort of topic du jour has changed, right?
I mean, first it was a labor concern. And then it was data centers. And now we're talking about alignment and perhaps the destruction of humankind.
MICHAELSON: Right.
MASON: I think that overall, though, it gets at what the -- what is the broader concern about A.I.? It is because this issue, I think, really speaks to the vast wealth inequality and the vast sense of -- of just an economy that is not working for people right now.
And so, whether that's going to be via data centers or via labor policy, I think that the broader question is this wealth inequality. And that's something that I think Congress has a hard time addressing.
MICHAELSON: And this feeling that -- that I do not have control over my own future.
PORTER: Yes.
MICHAELSON: That these oligarchs, whatever you want to call them, who have all this power, are in control. And there's nothing I can do about it. And they could take away my job or, potentially, even my life.
PORTER: Yes. I mean, I think this is an issue where, ideally, you would do the regulation at an international level.
MICHAELSON: Yes.
PORTER: When we have seen other kind of real existential technologies, things like nuclear weapons, gene editing, we have seen -- climate change, you mentioned -- we have seen international frameworks.
And to me, this is one of the real problems with Donald Trump. People don't want to play with him.
KLINK: Well, and international bodies don't work. The U.N. has failed on climate change.
MICHAELSON: Well, we haven't had a nuclear bomb --
PORTER: Yes, right.
MICHAELSON: -- since -- since World War Two go off. KLINK: And we haven't been able to regulate them. And you're going to
you -- you can't regulate.
MICHAELSON: Well, we have. We haven't had -- nuclear nonproliferation between the U.S. and Russia over the years.
KLINK: And countries have cheated on it, Elex. You look at -- you're talking about regulating a supercomputer, and you can't regulate. I mean, Iran had nuclear weapons or trying to develop a technology. North Korea has them.
MICHAELSON: Right. But to that -- to that point, like even if you had Joe Biden, who did play well with others, who that was his big thing, Do you trust Xi Jinping right now to -- to -- to do this on an international level?
What's the incentive structure? What's the pushback? If you get a Democratic president in there, what's the leverage that they have?
KLINK: And look at China, at the World Health Organization during COVID. They ate our lunch.
So, I mean, again, global bodies are pretty inept. They're really good at humanitarian aid distribution. They're not very good at controlling.
MICHAELSON: But don't you think that this has to be done on an international basis?
PORTER: Yes, what's the -- the alternative is we all just wait for --
MICHAELSON: And now the argument is, well, we can't regulate it, because China's not going to regulate. So, we can't regulate it at all. I mean, that also doesn't seem to make sense, does it?
PORTER: That's the race to the bottom.
KLINK: OK. Well, hopefully, smarter heads prevail, and some common sense exists. But again, there's a lot of "ifs" in those statements.
MASON: Look, I think the destabilizing possibility for this technology, every country in the world does not want to see that destabilization in their country.
China doesn't want to see 40 percent unemployment just as much as President Trump doesn't want to see that.
MICHAELSON: Yes.
MASON: So, I think finding those areas of common sort of concern, those areas of destabilization, that is going to be the way that international, you know, agreements can come together.
PORTER: And that's really how we approached nuclear. That's how we approached things like gene editing. So, I think that is the framework that we need to -- to move toward, internationally. MICHAELSON: And the CCP does not want to be replaced by robots either.
So, that -- there's that, as well.
Still to come, a Russian oligarch with ties to President Trump and President Putin, I should say, reportedly paid for part of Donald Trump Jr.'s wedding celebration. A look at ProPublica's investigation on that event when we come back.
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[00:48:57]
MICHAELSON: Panic set in aboard an Iranian plane as violent shaking collapsed a cabin ceiling on Monday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
(SCREAMING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELSON: Video shows passengers on board the flight bound for Northwestern Iran, screaming.
Airport officials say a detached tire tread prompted an engine technical alert after taking off. According to Iranian state media, the plane returned safely to the airport with no injury reported.
Poland is reinforcing security at its border with Ukraine after recent Russian drone strikes nearby. The country's defense minister says that the government's decision comes as Russia's actions, quote, "threaten the security of all of Europe."
All this comes amid reports of a drone being shot down in Lithuania that officials say, quote, "most probably came from Russia."
And the Danish Armed Forces says a Russian warship targeted a Danish military helicopter with two emergency flares as it photographed the vessel in international waters.
[00:50:04]
NATO's secretary-general says potential strikes close to NATO territory reflects President Vladimir Putin's desperation and his desire to, quote, "sow fear and terror."
Two Russian strikes hit near Ukraine's border with Poland over the weekend. One hit a train near where a group of former security officials and world leaders were traveling.
Russia's defense ministry claims the train had been transporting military cargo.
Democrats in Congress have launched an investigation into reports that a Russian oligarch paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for President Trump's son's wedding celebrations in the Bahamas. That inquiry follows a report by ProPublica.
CNN's Tom Foreman has more.
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TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On social media, Donald Trump Jr. and his new wife, Bettina, say their blowout post-wedding party in the Bahamas was "no conspiracy, no mystery."
So, why, in that intimate gathering of family and friends on a pair of private islands, did so many people not know this guest, at least according to U.S. Attorney General Todd Blanche.
TODD BLANCHE, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: The president doesn't know who this person is. I think other members of the family don't know who this person is.
FOREMAN (voice-over): But in a detailed investigation, ProPublica says the mystery man is Russian billionaire Umar Kremlev, who "footed the bill for hundreds of thousands of dollars of wedding expenses" for the newlywed Trumps, all during this party that included scantily clad dancers, a five-tier cake from Florida, and a fireworks show.
DONALD TRUMP JR., DONALD TRUMP'S SON (via phone): I had an awesome weekend. The family had an awesome weekend. It was really cool.
FOREMAN (voice-over): The publication also says Kremlev is close to Russian {resident Vladimir Putin, who gave him the Russian Order of Friendship for his loyalty, among other things.
Kremlev, ProPublica says, rose from a government-backed motorcycle gang called the Night Wolves to connect with the man who now leads Putin's security service, and then take over the Russian Boxing Federation and the nation's largest car dealership group, becoming rich and famous.
In one video on social media, ProPublica writes, "Kremlev surprises a young mother by giving her a free car." In another, he criticizes his young female aide's outfit as not feminine enough. He shadow-boxes with ostriches. He praises Stalin and rides private jets.
And after meeting at a sports conference, he and Don Jr. called each other friends.
"Our dear friend Umar," the newlyweds wrote in a statement yesterday, "very generously hosted two incredible nights of celebrations for us after our wedding, for which we were and remain incredibly grateful.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: You know, this is not good timing for me.
FOREMAN: President Trump said last spring he would not attend that wedding party, and he did not.
And Kremlev's office made clear to ProPublica, their man has done nothing wrong. This is just socializing.
FOREMAN (voice-over): So, will the attorney general investigate anything about this?
BLANCHE: When you say, am I investigating? Am I investigating what? And when you say this person is a friend of Putin, I don't even know if that's true or not.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MICHAELSON: Still to come, the U.S. says it's ready to tackle threats from anywhere, with the military turning to space to make that happen. Details next.
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[00:58:14]
MICHAELSON: A top Pentagon official has confirmed the U.S. Has deployed weapons in space, saying the country is ready to defend against threats wherever they exist.
It is the first public acknowledgment, after years of warning of potential space threats by China and Russia. Brian Todd has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: An extraordinary acknowledgment by a top U.S. official of the presence of U.S. weapons in space.
This is believed to be the first time that a U.S. official has ever acknowledged the presence of American weapons in space.
TODD (voice-over): This came from Air Force Secretary Troy Meink at a conference outside Washington, saying that the U.S. has deployed weapons in space and will use them to defend American forces.
Meink said the United States now has, quote, "on orbit space control weapons capable of defending the joint force against hostile adversary action."
TODD: Now, Meink did not provide specifics about the weapons, and when he was pressed on specifics, he refused to give any details.
He was vague, possibly because there are treaties in place restricting the placement of certain kinds of weapons in orbit, including the 1967 Outer Space Treaty, which bans nuclear weapons and weapons of mass destruction in orbit. It does not ban the use of conventional weapons in space.
TODD: It is also not known exactly when these American weapons were deployed into space. CNN has reached out to the Space Force for comment on this. TODD (voice-over): China and Russia have been challenging America's
dominance in space in recent years. The U.S. military has repeatedly warned that China and Russia are testing new offensive space capability, like Russia's satellite constellation training missions, as U.S. officials phrased it,
U.S. officials say that this Russian system --
TODD: -- could demonstrate attack and defend tactics for combat in space.
Also, U.S. officials saying that China is developing what they call a nuclear-capable partial-orbit hypersonic missile.
Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
