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The Story Is with Elex Michaelson

Trump Claims Flydubai Suspect Could Be Linked To Iran; New Video Shows Passengers Seizing Control On Flydubai Plane; Probe Under Way Into Motive Behind Flydubai Incident; The Problem with California's Political Machines; Renee Good's Family Sues ICE Agent and Trump Officials over Killing; ESA's High Hopes for Mars-Bound Rover "Charlie". Aired 1-2a ET

Aired October 02, 2026 - 01:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[01:00:00]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SASKYA VANDOORNE, CNN'S PARIS BUREAU CHIEF: Protests, while others point to members of France's far-left LFE party turning up at some of the demonstrations. LFE rejects that, saying its politicians are there to support the students' demands. French President Emmanuel Macron has condemned the violence.

EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT (voiceover): High schools are there to be open and to educate. They're not there to be blockaded or for bins to be burned.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN ANCHOR: Saskya Vandoorne there for us. France's interior minister said that security forces have intervened in cases of disorder, violence, or pressure property damage, while stressing that most protesters are high school students and minors, which police take into account. New instructions were issued to law enforcement agencies.

Thanks for watching the first hour of The Story Is. The next hour starts right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Live from Los Angeles, The Story Is with Elex Michaelson.

MICHAELSON: I'm Elex Michaelson. It is 10:00 o'clock here in Los Angeles.

Coming up, the story is terror in the skies. We have new footage from inside the flight that was diverted on its way from Dubai to Tel Aviv.

The story is the cost of living, how skyrocketing mortgage rates could impact the midterm elections. Plus, is AI impacting the job market?

And the story is, can Democrats govern blue cities? CNN's Fareed Zakaria says that California is a case study in failed governance. So why do Democrats keep on winning? Fareed with me on set.

But we begin with that new and new allegations about who could be behind Wednesday's violent incident on a Flydubai flight. This footage right here shows passengers cheering after the worst of the ordeal was over.

Now President Donald Trump says that the co-pilot accused of attacking and injuring the pilot in midflight may be linked to Iran. He says that's based on, quote, "What he's hearing."

Investigators are still looking into the motive and other details about the incident. Officials say both the captain and the co-pilot were sent to Abu Dhabi on Thursday.

Meanwhile, CNN has also obtained new video of passengers rushing into the cockpit to subdue that co-pilot. One crew member can be heard calling for a doctor. Another man shouted that they need a pilot. A reserve flight crew which happened to be on board, then took over, flew the plane and landed it safely in Saudi Arabia. Everything about this is remarkable.

For more, we are joined from Oslo, Norway, by Alex Plitsas, CNN national security analyst. He's also director of the Counterterrorism Project at the Atlantic Council. It is, of course, Friday morning in Oslo.

Good morning to you, Alex.

ALEX PLITSAS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Good Morning from the future, in that case.

I know what kind of screening would this co-pilot go through to be in this kind of position? And do we know of any red flags that may have been raised?

PLITSAS: Sure. So the pilot would have had to go through their domestic countries, process, licensing, and background checks, which would have included criminal, and things of that nature. But if nothing popped up during a criminal background investigation and there was no obvious red signs in terms of, you know, demonstrated behavior or intent, either criminal or terrorism or something like that, it's hard to screen for.

So, we haven't seen a manifesto. We've seen a claim. We haven't seen anything released. And unfortunately, it looks like he was able to make it through that screening process.

MICHAELSON: You know, 24 hours ago, we really didn't know anything about the motive or what was behind all of this. Do we have any more information now? You're so plugged in. What are you hearing?

PLITSAS: So, we are hearing a bit more. And when folks hear, you know, what the motive is and, you know, people push back, well, isn't it kind of obvious? But it's important to get this right from a geopolitical perspective. And here's what I mean by that. It's clear that the co-pilot, who was Omani by nationality, stabbed the pilot, took over the aircraft, and attempted to dive it down. Now, whether he was attempting to crash it, which is now what we're hearing, that was purposeful, or whether he was attempting to hijack it and landed somewhere isn't really clear.

But it looks like he was trying to crash on the ground. Obviously, with a plane load of Israelis coming, you know, flying from Dubai or from the UAE, flying into Tel Aviv, the intent tends to become more clear. But was he doing it as an individual who was self-radicalized, or was he doing it on behalf of a terrorist organization with a particular political slant? Or was, you know, worst case, was he doing this on behalf of a state sponsor like Iran, in which case that would prompt a policy response from Israel. So, there's a big difference in terms of the impact of that and getting that right.

MICHAELSON: President Trump suggesting Iran without evidence from your sources, are you hearing Iran?

PLITSAS: So the Israelis were a little bit more circumspect, saying it's too early to tell here. There are some indicators, but that's not necessarily clear at this point, which is why you haven't seen a real claim of responsibility for that. And it's for the same reason that we, you know, we're talking about the second story, the British attack, sort of the same way, or the foiled plot, rather in the sense that you really have to get that right. You need to make sure that the entire plot is known.

[01:05:20]

You've got all of your information before you step to the microphone. Because the moment you do and declare that a foreign power is behind it, you know, it's technically an act on your -- on your soil, right? You can call it terrorism, or you can call it an act of war, depending on what that context is.

But that comes with a policy response. And for that reason, they've been a little bit more circumspect. But it would, it would come amidst a pattern of activity. So, we saw the Iranian-backed militias attack the pipeline in Saudi Arabia, the East-West pipeline to disrupt oil flow and get gas prices to go up.

We saw the Houthis, you know, in Yemen attacking Saudi Arabia. Then we saw the foil plot in the U.K., you know, hearing there could be other cells globally that we have to watch out for in general as part of an overall asymmetric terrorist threat. And now lastly, you know, a potential aircraft incident here.

MICHAELSON: I mean, you mentioned that foil plot in the U.K., a suspect arrested a British Iranian dual citizen. What more do we know about that? And the ability also to stop it.

PLITSAS: Sure. So, what we do know is that those group of individuals were spotted out. A farmer had called the police, and then, you know, they came in and the firearms officers, because in the U.K. police are unarmed, it's only specialized units showed up, along with explosive ordnance disposal from the military base. And that was outside of a major U.S. base that we use in the U.K., and there happened to be B1 and B52 bombers that are involved in the air campaigns against Iran.

And that cell looked like it was preparing explosive devices to attack the base. But due to U.K. law and kind of how they disrupted it, and the fact that the explosives were inert, they were released under U.K. law even though they were pending a charge there. And now it looks like another individual with potential links to Iran was involved. And this is very typical of the IRGC in terms of how they operate on the Iranian side.

Contracting local cells to engage in this type of behavior, whether it's murder for hire or potential terrorist activity. So the U.K. government hasn't gone that far. But that's the indicators that are sort of being given off. And the furthest we've gotten is the U.K. prime minister stepped forward, and said that it appears there's a clear nexus to Iran.

But he was very close hold with that information. So what that signals is the investigation is still ongoing, and they're worried about releasing information that it will disrupt the remaining activities in terms of what they're trying to do and looking at this or other cells may be operating.

MICHAELSON: CNN national security analyst, Alex Plitsas. A lot (inaudible) coming in. Thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it.

We want to go to this now. Tennessee death row inmate Christa Pike remains in critical condition and is receiving life-saving medical care after surviving an execution attempt. That's right, she survived an execution attempt. There are a lot of questions about how did that happened.

Pike survived two lethal doses of pentobarbital on Wednesday night. Witnesses say she showed signs of life for over an hour after the execution began. One Tennessee reporter told CNN, he never seen anything like it despite witnessing multiple executions.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEVEN HALE, CRIMINAL JUSTICE REPORTER, NASHVILLE BANNER: This was my fifth execution that I've witnessed in Tennessee. The reporters I was with in the witness room had also, most of them witnessed numerous executions, and none of us had any seen ever seen anything like what we saw last night. The governor has called off all executions for the rest of the year. That effectively just postpones one execution that was set for December, and I guess implies that the state won't try to execute Christa Pike again this year.

But as you said, this is the second time in a matter of months that Tennessee has tried to execute someone and failed to do so. In May, at an execution that I was also inside the prison for, the state tried to execute a man named Tony Carruthers. They failed to place the IV lane -- the IV lines, excuse me, at that point. And so that execution never made it as far as this attempted one did. But this is now the second time that they've tried and failed.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAELSON: The story is your money, the economy. U.S. mortgage rates are at their highest level in almost three years with the average 30- year fixed rate now at 7.28 percent. That is almost a full percentage point higher than this time a year ago. Rates have risen for six straight weeks and accelerated in the past few days with the biggest one-week jump in nearly four years.

Those moves have been driven in part by turmoil in the bond market. The yields on 10 and 30-year Treasuries hit levels not seen since 2002 this week.

Investors fear the war in Iran and increased government spending could further fuel inflation, pushing the Federal Reserve to hike interest rates. Christopher Thornberg is here live on set. He is the founding partner at Beacon Economics, became nationally known for forecasting the subprime mortgage market crash of 2007, and the global economic recession that followed. Hopefully we're not headed towards anything like that.

[01:10:08]

Chris Thornberg, welcome to The Story Is for the first time.

CHRISTOPHER THORNBERG, FOUNDING PARTNER, BEACON ECONOMICS: Yes, pleasure to be here. Absolutely.

MICHAELSON: So why are rates going up?

THORNBERG: Well, I think the proximate cause, of course, is the oil shock. We went through the first round with Iran, then it came back. Oil got to $100 a barrel, and that started pushing prices.

But behind that, look, oil by itself is not enough to truly move the bond markets because oil just isn't as important as it was. It's a transitory shock.

But I think the broader picture is the bond market, strongly -- finally starting to focus on that enormous government deficit. I mean, look, we're on track to borrow 2.3 to $2.4 trillion this calendar year.

MICHAELSON: In one-year.

THORNBERG: And to way things are going. Yes, absolutely.

MICHAELSON: One year.

THORNBERG: One of the biggest full employment deficits this nation has ever, ever had. And then when you put that on top of the fact that we're going to see a big surge in spending to restock after all the munitions we've used, and then you look at the danger of an AI bubble starting to implode, and you start to realize that, well, the bond market was going to flinch at some point in time. It just took a spark, and this is it.

MICHAELSON: So when we see interest rates going up, mortgage rates going up, what's your advice for people out there who are either thinking about buying a home or selling a home?

MICHAELSON: Well, if you're thinking about selling a home, you might want to ask yourself what kind of interest rate you're going to have. You're going to buy another one.

MICHAELSON: Yes.

THORNBERG: In fact, that's going to be one of the big problems in the market. When we talk about the affordability crisis, it's not about current homeowners. You know, 80 percent of current homeowners have interest rates below 6 percent right now, and a lot of them interest rates below 4 percent because they refinanced back in 2021.

They're not moving. They're just fine. But the fact that they're not moving has made it very difficult for first-time buyers to get into the market. There are no simple entry-level homes.

Now, of course, you have yet another hit in terms of the cost of borrowing money. And yes, it's going to be really hard for people to jump into the market.

Look, here's the key. At some point in time, you might need to buy a house. You're going to -- you're married. You have a kid on the way. Here -- don't -- the simple rule is don't overbuy. Don't buy into this idea that rates are going to come down tomorrow. They're going to be elevated for a while.

So, whatever you buy right now, be prepared to deal with the payment, with the interest rate, because it's not going away.

MICHAELSON: So, in the next few hours, we're going to get a new jobs report. The last time we got a jobs report number, it looked really good and the Trump administration said, said it was -- it was good. What do you -- why was it not so good? And what do you expect in the next few hours?

THORNBERG: Well, look. We had a weird bump because it was August and there's a seasonal adjustment process. And more or less what happened is it captured a whole bunch of people going back to teaching at school again, and that's not a real jump. Almost assuredly tomorrow we're going to get a very weak number.

Now, mind you --

MICHAELSON: What does that number mean?

THORNBERG: Maybe zero.

MICHAELSON: Really?

THORNBERG: Zero. Yes, but keep something in mind. You see, the problem here isn't a lack of labor demand. When I say there's no job growth, it's not because there isn't demand for jobs.

The problem is, is the labor force in the United States has contracted over the course of the last year. Look, whatever you're feeling about immigration policy is, we have to understand that there's a consequence of people not coming to this nation and some people leaving. That is to say, this nation become very immigrant-dependent. If they're not coming into this country, we can't really have labor force growth because 40 years ago we stopped having as many babies.

MICHAELSON: So, the immigrants are out, and now there's nobody to replace them.

THORNBERG: Now, there's nobody replace it.

MICHAELSON: That's interesting. There's been so much conversation every single day about AI. Is it going to cost people jobs? Is it impacting the economy?

For people scared about AI taking their jobs, is that happening right now?

THORNBERG: You know, every time there's a big new technology with the same stories about it taking everybody's jobs. This happened with automation. It happened with the Internet. And here we go again.

No, it's not going to steal every jobs. That said, here's the other part of the story. It hasn't really done much of anything yet.

Look, for all the news, for all the hubbub, for all the time we're all spending in front of our little air engines, you're not seeing a market increase in worker productivity. You're not seeing any real changes in the structure of the labor market. It hasn't had a big impact.

And the reason that worries me is because when you realize that, and you look at the stock market which is at an all time high level, you start to recognize that this doesn't make any sense.

MICHAELSON: And that's when things sometimes --

THORNBERG: Well, go back to the first conversation about the federal deficit because if a bubble pops, you see a lot more pressures, not just interest rates pressuring the federal government, but now it's, of course, it's going to be a decline in revenues. We're due for a big fiscal reset, come hook or crooked.

MICHAELSON: Well, on that note, Chris Thornberg from Beacon Economics. Always learn from you every time you speak. Thank you so much for coming.

THORNBERG: It's a pleasure.

MICHAELSON: Great to have you here. Still ahead on The Story Is, President Trump hitting the campaign trail in Texas, but in a razor thin Senate race is his endorsement a boost or a burden, or maybe a little bit of both? Stay with us. Our political panel ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[01:19:28]

MICHAELSON: President Trump spending his day campaigning for Republicans in Oklahoma and Texas. Weeks before the midterms, he traveled to the Lone Star State for a rally with Ken Paxton. After audio leaked of the Senate candidate questioning whether Trump's support is helping or hurting.

While speaking to the crowd in Denton, Texas, President Trump called Paxton, quote, "One of the most loyal people." He said Paxton has been at his side more than anybody else, even as he continues to insult the Texas attorney general from time to time.

Rather than starting in traditional battleground states, President Trump is touring reliably red states. He's defending that decision and says the trips are a way to thank voters for supporting him. His next step is in -- stop is in Alabama tomorrow. Let's bring in our panel to discuss MeidasTouch legal analyst Dina Doll, and Jennifer Horn, host of the Morning Answer on 8:70 a.m. here in Los Angeles.

[01:20:21]

President Trump talking with Time magazine and talked with them for like two hours.

JENNIFER HORN, HOST, "THE MORNING ANSWER" ON 870 AM IN L.A.: He gave them time.

MICHAELSON: He gave them time. He's been on Time magazine's cover more than any other person in history.

HORN: Really.

They just beat Richard Nixon recently. He's had the most Time magazine covers. It's on the cover again. And he -- one of the things he said he was frustrated with the Supreme Court picks that he selected.

Let's put this up on the screen. He said, "You said they, Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, Coney Barrett were like shells of their former selves. Do you regret nominating them?"

And the president said, "Yes, what can I do? I put them in. They vote against me too often. I was very -- I gave them the position of a lifetime, and they vote against me often."

They vote for me, too. The Democrats stick like glue, those three. They virtually never vary. You can come up with the worst thing in the world, and they'll vote as a group. And while I don't like it, there's something I admire about it. There is loyalty."

How do you think President Trump views the Supreme Court and just sort of everything? This idea, is it -- are you a public servant or are you serving him?

DINA DOLL, MEIDASTOUCH LEGAL ANALYST: You are serving him. He makes no bones about it. It's all about his loyalty. But the interesting part is I think that might have been the one coherent statement he made in that Time interview.

They gave, they printed a transcript of that interview, and it was complete nonsense for the most part. I even was thinking, how could I fact-check this? You would -- I would have to put together sentences that didn't make sense to try to come up with a fact to disprove. That was perhaps sort of most program did.

MICHAELSON: Apparently, the reporter said this was at the end of a very, very long day where he had been traveling to multiple states and all over, all over the weekend. And they were grateful to have the time, but it was a little.

I mean, President Trump likes to talk about the weave. He makes fun of that himself. You start somewhere, end up, go here, move all around. That's part of his charm.

HORN: Because he just sits down and talks.

MICHAELSON: Yes.

HORN: And what I respect, look, the last president we had would never be able to sit down and do a two-hour interview with Time Magazine. You wouldn't be able to fact-check it because we never even got any information from the former president. He would hide out. He very rarely made himself available.

President Trump always does. As far as loyalty, look, the president is not a stupid man. The president knows that loyalty matters. And by the way, loyalty matters in this world. We should all value loyalty.

But what I'm saying, because I understand in politics you're going to say, oh, and in judicial system, we shouldn't have this. You're not pledging allegiance to anybody. It's okay to say --

MICHAELSON: You're pleading allegiance to the Constitution.

HORN: To the Constitution. But here's the thing, what I'm getting at is that it's okay to say that you want people to be loyal to you. That's okay. That's not a bad thing.

Democrats like loyalty too. Democrats are very loyal to each. But what I would say about this Supreme Court, the difference between Republicans and Democrats and even Trump and Democrats, is when Trump loses at the Supreme Court, you never hear him say he wants to expel anyone. He never says he wants to pack the Supreme Court. He never says that we should get --

MICHAELSON: But he already has.

HORN: No, he hasn't.

MICHAELSON: Packing is the right --

HORN: Packing is the right word.

MICHAELSON: Yes, I take that back. You're right. Packing is a loaded word, which means changing the rules.

HORN: Yes, when Democrat --

DOLL: That's what McConnell did. Essentially do that.

HORN: When Democrats lose, they want to get rid of the court. They want to throw it out. They want to add 18 justices. So, he complains to Time Magazine. It's far less dangerous than changing the entire system of rules that we have in the country which is Democrats wants.

DOLL: Mitch McConnell stole a seat. So, he -- they've already broken that. I mean, Obama should have been able to do that.

HORN: Oh, for debate.

DOLL: That's not even debatable. There is nothing, there is no rule that -- I mean, honestly, did the exact same (inaudible) Amy Coney Barrett.

HORN: But they have the majority.

DOLL: But Amy Coney Barrett, they pushed through when Mitch McConnell wouldn't do that on a bottom. So they already stole the seat. They're already playing games.

MICHAELSON: Stole is a lot -- loaded word.

DOLL: Well, he did, though.

MICHAELSON: Yes.

DOLL: But the fact of the matter is --

MICHAELSON: He utilized power.

DOLL: -- the fact that, Trump believes that he is this authoritarian and that the Supreme Court is bloom and a co-equal branch of government is why people are afraid for our democracy, because there is no loyalty pledge. They don't work for the president. They don't even work for Congress.

But Trump doesn't understand that.

MICHAELSON: The president's trying to change the narrative about what's going on. It's part of the reason, I assume that he talked to Time Magazine, and he's talked about public relations a lot lately. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: The only thing we're doing badly at is public relations. In other words, we're doing a phenomenal job, but by a combination of maybe we're doing a bad job in selling it.

Costs are way down, and they're coming down further. We have inflation totally in control, and we've done a great job. And the thing I haven't done a good job with is explaining it to people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[01:25:11]

MICHAELSON: Do you agree with that?

HORN: 1,000 percent. I think I've even said it to you before, Elex, is that we have a messaging problem in the Republican Party. The only person who's messaging anything is the president. And it seems like every member of Congress is kind of going in their own circle, and they're not.

Look, if I said, what's a Democrat message? You both would say, affordability. Affordability. Affordability. Or Trump, Trump, Trump.

MICHAELSON: Right. I would say not Trump.

HORN: Exactly. It's either not Trump --

MICHAELSON: This is the democratic, yes.

HORN: -- or it's affordability. And so we've -- we know what their message is. Republicans are all over the place. President Trump in the last two years has a really good record on the economy.

There are lots of things to celebrate. The border is closed. Crime is down. We have a lower cost of medication. I mean, there's so many things that we could be talking about that Republicans just don't seem to be getting on the same page with. And that is unfortunate.

MICHAELSON: Is it style or substance?

DOLL: It is substance. He wishes it were style because, yes, he's a marketer, you know, that's what he likes to do. But the fact is, is you can't lie to the people when they're paying more groceries. They're paying more the gas pump. They're getting fired. College graduates can't find jobs.

You can't sit there and say, this is just about spin. The fact is, is with the CHIPS Act and the infrastructure act that Biden passed, there would have been manufacturing jobs, and Trump could have just fallen asleep like he likes to do at a meeting.

But for the last year and a half. And we would be better off because he started this war. He started a tariff war, and people see he's playing, playing around with their pocketbook.

MICHAELSON: Well, that CHIPS Act, President Biden had a very hard time selling to the American people in terms of talking about it. But in terms of the PR problem, isn't that President Trump's fault? I mean, isn't he talking more than anybody? HORN: I think he's the only one who has been talking. I just think Republicans are all over the place trying to figure out what's going to work best in their district. And obviously, to some extent, that has to be done. But I think we need more leadership from the Republican members of Congress and the Senate.

And to your point about Biden and the CHIPS Act, President Trump, you're not even feeling the investments yet that President Trump has brought into this country, including the latest one he talked about this week in Iowa.

MICHAELSON: And meanwhile, the Senate is now out of town for the rest of this session until after the midterms. The House and the Senate, both now out of session. Dina Doll, Jennifer Horn, always great to talk with both of you. Thank you so much for being with us.

DOLL: Thanks.

MICHAELSON: A federal judge will hear arguments next Thursday on President Trump's White House media ban. CNN, MS NOW, and Politico want a two week restraining order extended maintaining their access to the White House.

Right now, that access is limited. In fact, CNN was barred from traveling with the president on Air Force One today. The media outlets say that the ban is unconstitutional, but the White House claims reporting by the groups is a threat to national security.

Veterans and lawmakers are speaking out against President Trump's plan to build the 250-foot arch in Washington. The groups gathered in Memorial Circle for a demonstration on Thursday. They're calling on President Trump to end his plan for the Triumphal Arch.

The president has said that the structure would double as a top-grade military complex housing snipers, drones, and large quantities of ammunition.

Stay with us here on CNN. We have more after the break. Fareed Zakaria, why he thinks that Democrats may not be able to govern blue cities. Stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[01:32:40]

ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN ANCHOR: Now to my conversation with Fareed Zakaria, the host of CNN's "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS". Our conversation happening a day after the CNN debate in our studio between the California gubernatorial candidates vying to tackle the problems in the state -- Democrat Xavier Becerra and Republican Steve Hilton.

Becerra seeking to tie Hilton to President Trump's policies, while Hilton blamed Democrats for the state's problems, everything from the cost of living to the state's efforts to keep the film industry in California.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

XAVIER BECERRA (D), CALIFORNIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: So long as we get more than $1 back for that dollar in tax credit, we're going to do it because Hollywood belongs here. We don't want it to be in Sydney, Australia. It shouldn't be Sydney-wood. It shouldn't be in Toronto, Canada -- not Toronto-wood.

It needs to be Hollywood. And we'll fight to keep Hollywood business in Hollywood and in California.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Mr. Hilton.

STEVE HILTON (R), CALIFORNIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: Who's been in charge when all those jobs have gone.

BECERRA: Donald Trump.

HILTON: When this industry has collapsed --

BECERRA: Donald Trump.

HILTON: -- the Democrats. The Democrats in California have run this state for 16 years

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELSON: Fareed Zakaria discusses the challenges for the next governor in a "Washington Post" op-ed entitled "How California Became a Case Study in Failed Governance". That title getting a lot of attention.

He joined me here on set earlier to discuss what he means.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS": The first thing I want to be clear is I love California. It is literally one of the most beautiful places. I sometimes think this is like God's country in terms of the weather, the beauty, but also the people.

And the point I was making is that it's actually a paradoxical state because it has the private sector in California massively overperforms. I mean, think of Silicon Valley, think of Hollywood.

But government underperforms and you can see it in the homelessness problem. California spends more on homelessness than any -- than any state. It has more homeless people. It has not been able to solve the problem.

[01:34:43]

ZAKARIA: You look in L.A., right? I mean, there are -- it's after years of trying to tackle the problem, it suggests a kind of brokenness to the system where everyone knows that there's a problem.

Mostly everyone knows what the solution to the problem is. You've got to get these people into some kind of shelters. But it seems the political cost of doing it has become so difficult, the political obstacles.

You know, there's a political scientist actually who lives in California named Frank Fukuyama, who writes about vetocracy, that America, American democracy has become a system, not a majority rule, not a minority, just where everyone can veto.

So everyone has the power to block, which means nothing gets done. And it feels like California is the test -- you know, is the poster child for this.

It's so easy to block anything. That's why high-speed rail doesn't get done.

MICHAELSON: Right.

ZAKARIA: That's why homelessness doesn't get cured. And I think it's a particular problem for Democrats, because if you can't run a city, it's hard for the country to trust you with running the country, right?

It's like if you -- if the place that most people's lives interact with government at a local level, not at some grand abstract level, you know, they're often the Washington debates are at.

And if at the very simple local level, they look and see a Democratic Party that can't provide the fundamental attribute of government, which is public order, right.

Order comes before everything else. If you don't have order, you can. And if you can't provide that, it makes people think, well, these guys are serious at governing.

MICHAELSON: And yet in this state, they keep voting for Democrats over and over again. Every branch of government veto-proof supermajorities in both the Assembly and the Senate. Democratic governors for 16 years, the candidate for governor, Xavier Becerra, the Democrat, up double digits in every single poll.

Why the disconnect and why do you think that so many Democrats in this state blame President Trump and the Republicans in Washington for all the problems happening in Sacramento?

ZAKARIA: Look, you're asking a very big question. I think that what has happened with partisan alignment now is it's almost tribal. And it's almost based on socioeconomic and identity markers. So that if you are a certain kind of person, you know, you're an urban, you're secular, you're somewhat educated, you tend to stack up with the Democrats for all kinds of cultural, social reasons.

It's not as though people are in, you know, in policy terms, if you ask Californians, are you happy with where things are on things like public order? And they say, no.

MICHAELSON: Right. ZAKARIA: You know, so and you see that with the election of the mayor in San Francisco, like a desperate cry for change.

MICHAELSON: But he was a Democrat.

ZAKARIA: Yes. No, you're absolutely right.

MICHAELSON: Moderate Democrat.

ZAKARIA: It's very hard. And look, I can also understand that the Republican Party has become a party of, you know, kind of incredible hostility to openness in every sense, to diversity, to immigrants, to trade.

It's frankly not a particularly friendly party to market economics. I mean, look at the president. He's interfering -- he's interfering in the -- in the economy in ways that, that would make any free marketeer cringe, right?

It's like, I'm going to own 10 percent of Intel. I'm going to give you a special tax break. I'm going to -- that's not market economics.

So you've got a Republican Party that has become, you know, kind of very, very populist and extreme.

You've got a Democratic Party, I think, whose heart is in the right place, but often just cannot execute. It's a tough choice.

MICHAELSON: So how do you break the cycle? How do you make government work?

ZAKARIA: I think, you know, you start by looking at success. So I think Dan Lurie in San Francisco is such a good example.

You know, he's not just sitting there taking pot shots. He's figuring out how do you actively solve some of these problems.

MICHAELSON: And he's a moderate Democrat who comes from a business background.

(CROSSTALKING)

ZAKARIA: He's a moderate Democrat.

Exactly. And is very committed to many of the goals the Democrats are committed to. But he's trying to figure out how do you make them -- how do you implement them in a way that you know, that works for everyone? Look, it's understandable that you worry about the rights of the homeless population, but you also have the other 99 percent of the -- of the city or the state who have rights as well.

And you can't violate their rights or their sense of -- their desire to have decent streets, clean streets, safe streets, by just obsessing about one set of rights, right?

So I think what Lurie has been able to do is show that you can tackle these in a way that is not inhumane, but does actually solve the problem.

[01:39:46]

ZAKARIA: I think there are others. You know, in his own way, Mamdani in New York, even though he has some policy ideas I disagree with on a -- on a day-to-day basis, you know, the emphasis on like filling the potholes, making sure stuff works.

You know, New York has this crazy scaffolding problem. We have, you know, the city is covered with scaffolding. It's a classic case of this kind of liberal governance gone crazy.

And they're systematically trying to take down, you know, change the rules around it. You've got to -- you've got to approach it not from some kind of grand ideological vision that says, you know, I'm going to -- I'm going to sweep aside all of this. But, you know, it's a lot of blocking and tackling.

How do you figure out how and think about how every day are you making people's lives? Are you making their interaction with the government a positive one or a negative one?

I think so much of the frustration in America is that Americans feel like, you know, they've gotten maybe used to a world of Amazon and Apple and things like that -- everything works miraculously well.

MICHAELSON: And quickly.

ZAKARIA: Except the DMV, except the interactions with government. And that probably, you know, builds up the frustration.

MICHAELSON: And people are used to things in those scenarios going so fast.

ZAKARIA: Yes.

MICHAELSON: And government not designed to go really fast.

ZAKARIA: And sometimes it can't for understandable reasons. They're competing values, but a lot of times it can, you know. You should be able to do a lot of the stuff in government.

And -- = but I think that the harder challenge is the Democratic Party has to think with its head, and not just with its heart.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAELSON: Fareed Zakaria. Be sure to tune in to CNN for "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS" every Sunday at 10:00 a.m. Eastern, 7:00 a.m. Pacific.

Right now you're watching THE STORY IS.

For our international viewers, "WORLD SPORT" is next. For our viewers in North America, I'll be right back with more news.

[01:41:39] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MICHAELSON: The family of Renee Good is filing two lawsuits against the U.S. government and top Trump officials over her death. They include Kristi Noem, Tom Homan and Stephen Miller. Good was shot and killed by an ICE agent in Minneapolis on January 7th.

The suit against the agent and top administration officials alleges that the immigration operation was a carefully planned, coordinated effort to interfere with the civil rights of Somali and Hispanic Minnesotans and silence their allies and neighbors.

CNN's Whitney Wild has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: There are two lawsuits that are being filed. The first is a lawsuit against the United States government. In total, it is being filed by -- under rather the Federal Tort Claims Act.

The second lawsuit is much bigger and it is being filed against several members of the Trump administration, including Department of Homeland Security Secretary at the time Kristi Noem, Corey Lewandowski, Greg Bovino, the agent who opened fire, whom CNN has identified as Jonathan Ross, as well as several unnamed agents.

Both lawsuits detail the moments that led up to this shooting, and the lawsuit alleges that as Renee Good was on that street in Minneapolis on January 7th, she never posed any real threat to any of the federal agents. And that when Jonathan Ross opened fire that he violated several DHS policies, violated certainly Minnesota state law, as well as the Constitution itself.

The second lawsuit is much broader and actually goes back all the way to November and makes the allegation that Renee Good's death did not happen in a vacuum. And actually, it was the predictable result of a sweeping, ill-conceived and frankly reckless operation that happened here in Minneapolis, which as we all know was called Operation: Metro Surge. It was that enormous ramp up here in Minneapolis, where we saw thousands of immigration agents descend on the city over several weeks.

For the first time, we heard from Becca Good. She was there the moment Renee Good was shot. And in very emotional statement described how her life has changed dramatically, how much damage this has caused Becca Good, their son, Renee's two other children and the entire family.

Here's more from Becca Good.

BECCA GOOD, RENEE GOOD'S PARTNER: Now, I'll grow old without the love of my life. I think about how we should have had 40 or 60 more years together. We were all robbed.

Her youngest, our son, is six years old and he's already lost more than anyone ever should. And he misses his Mama. Accountability and change, true accountability and change is the only way to make sure that no other family has to go through what we have.

I don't hate the people who took Renee from us. But what I want them to understand is every single day they get to look at their children and their wives and their sisters and know what they took from our family.

They took a mother away from her children. They know that and they will carry it forever.

WILD: CNN has reached out to those members of the Department of Homeland Security who are named in the lawsuit. We've also reached out to the White House about the other lawsuit that's filed against the federal government, in total.

The search for accountability here continues. And in fact, in July, Hennepin County Attorney Mary Moriarty said that they had received volumes of evidence in Renee Good's shooting. They are continuing to investigate this case. They received those volumes of evidence from the Department of Justice.

So federal -- excuse me -- state officials here say that they are absolutely committed to continuing to investigate her death.

Back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAELSON: Whitney Wild, thank you.

Up next, a new warning for the West from Russian President Putin.

[01:49:37]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MICHAELSON: European scientists have high hopes for their own version of a Mars rover. The prototype, known as Charlie, is being tested in Spain.

The goal is to test technologies and operations relevant to the ESA's Mars mission. That will include the autonomous navigation system as well as tasks the rover will perform after landing on Mars in 2030. The purpose to search for evidence of past or present life.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VINCENT SCHAEFFER, TEAM LEADER AT AIRBUS DEFENCE AND SPACE: The objective of this test is to train the people in the control center in Turin in Italy, to operate the rover as if it was on Mars.

So we are simulating in what we call an analog site that looks as close as possible to Mars for the operator in the control center to operate this rover as if it was on Mars.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[01:54:52]

MICHAELSON: Here are some of the top stories we're tracking for the day ahead.

Vladimir Putin is warning that he will use all weapons in his arsenal to defend the Baltic enclave of Kaliningrad, including nuclear. The president says that he has no plans to attack any nations in Europe, but vows to respond to any western aggression as necessary.

His comments, coming after NATO drills were sandwiched between -- near Kaliningrad, which is sandwiched between Poland and Lithuania.

New York's governor, Kathy Hochul, responding to allegations of sexual assault at Cornell University. She is appointing State Attorney General Letitia James as special prosecutor.

Hochul says she's lost faith in the ability of Tompkins County district attorney to fairly oversee the case. Cornell says it supports that decision.

Rapper Rick Ross is out of jail following his arrest in Miami on domestic violence related charges. His attorney says that Ross is being wrongfully accused by an ex-girlfriend whose true motivations are unclear.

According to police, Ross' former girlfriend claimed that after a verbal dispute about social media turned physical. His arraignment is scheduled for late October.

Thanks so much for watching THE STORY IS. We've been in this newsroom set all week as our studio was converted for the California governor's debate.

We'll be back in our regular studio tomorrow. Thanks to our crew for helping set up both shots, such talented colleagues. Proud to work with all of you.

We'll see you back tomorrow from our regular home base. Thanks for watching.

[01:56:12]

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