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Is White House Vulnerable to Terrorist Attacks?; 9/11 Veterans Move Into Politics; Is U.S. Falling in Love With Soccer?
Aired June 22, 2002 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've got a long way to go to secure the homeland.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KATE SNOW, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Is the White House itself vulnerable? New concerns after a plane strays into restricted airspace.
And new talk of warnings on September 10, one day before the terror attacks. Now finger pointing over the leak.
Our CNN correspondents from the White House to the Pentagon to New York have the inside scoop on events of the week. What did they see and hear that you may have missed?
Plus, how 9/11 veterans and their stories are moving into the political arena.
And, another quick thrill, or is the U.S. finally falling in love with soccer?
All just ahead on CNN's SATURDAY EDITION.
Good morning to Arizona, the rest of the West and all of you out East. Grab another cup of coffee. I'm Kate Snow in Washington.
We're tackling the week's stories with the help of White House correspondent Kelly Wallace this morning, Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr, from CNN Sports, Josie Karp, from our New York bureau, urban affairs correspondent Maria Hinojosa, and from Salt Lake City, Utah, CNN's Jeanne Meserve, covering the search for missing girl Elizabeth Smart.
I will get their inside stories in just a moment. We're also standing by for the president's weekly radio address.
But first, this news alert.
(NEWS ALERT)
SNOW: And we begin this morning from the White House. Kelly Wallace joining us here on the set.
Glad to have you here in the studio.
KELLY WALLACE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Glad to be in the studio.
SNOW: The president this morning has done, more than any of us probably, he's been out running.
WALLACE: More than any of us ever do.
(LAUGHTER)
SNOW: HE's been out running. He's promoting fitness. What is this all about? Why is he doing this?
WALLACE: Well, this is a serious thing. The president went out for a three-mile run, challenging his staff to join him. He's trying to encourage Americans to eat right and exercise at least 30 minutes a day. You'll see the president there on the starting line. We understand he ran well under a seven-minute mile pace, clocking in at 20 minutes, 29 seconds.
But in all seriousness, this is a president who is very physically fit. He's encouraging his staff to take time even during the day to get out and exercise. And the question is, will he really inspire Americans?
More than 50 percent don't exercise.
MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN URBAN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Oh, wait a second. So does that mean that our CNN bosses are not going to let us go out for a run in the middle of the day, because I mean, that's what it takes. You know, I have to be up at 6:00 in the morning to make it to the gym, or else it just doesn't happen.
WALLACE: You know, what he is doing, is he is encouraging employers to do that -- that he has been saying over the past couple of days that all employers around the country should allow your employees, even during the day, to take some time and exercise.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's interesting because that's what happens at the Pentagon. The military goes out every day for what they call PT, physical training. In the middle of the day you can see the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff out there in his running shorts.
HINOJOSA: Isn't that a security risk?
STARR: Well, they do go with some security, but these are big guys, you know.
HINOJOSA: But they're all leaving at the same time, or...
STARR: Well, it happens throughout the day. I mean, you can try and go talk to sources, really very senior-level military officers, and you'll find they're out running.
JOSIE KARP, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: But is 30 minutes really 30 minutes? Because you're going to exercise, then you have to shower and you have to change. He's encouraging everyone, basically, to take a one-and-a-half to two hour break in the middle of the day. And is that good for business, let alone the country.
WALLACE: Well, but he's also...
SNOW: IT's good for our health...
WALLACE: It's great, and you know, look at the numbers. I mean about more than $1 billion a year, this year, heart disease-related costs alone. I think 25 percent, looking at the numbers of Americans obese. So it's a serious issue.
It's interesting because even Karen Hughes, one of the busiest women in the White House, she leaves three times a week to go work out with two other women in the White House. So the message is, we're really busy, we're focused on the war, but we even have an hour a couple of times a week to exercise.
SNOW: Josie, do the sport -- I mean, you cover sports. Do people see President Bush as some kind of hero, role model? He's constantly calling sports teams to encourage U.S. teams, to encourage them.
KARP: And that's a standard thing for American presidents throughout history. I know with the U.S. soccer team he called before the Mexico match this week. And one of the players joked, because soccer is seemingly so important here, which president and which country or university or which president could possibly be calling?
WALLACE: He didn't know who was calling?
KARP: It was sort of a joke, but it was sort of underscored where soccer, you know, is in the hierarchy or sports in this country.
No, I wouldn't say he's such a hero (ph). But I did -- when I heard that time, wonder, how does that compare to former President Clinton's running times?
WALLACE: Well, you know, we'll have to get back to you on that. No question, former President Clinton ran a lot, but he also -- his staff didn't quite get out as much as well.
SNOW: Let's hear straight from President Bush now. He's going to be talking about this in his weekly radio address. We're standing by for that, starting live in just a moment.
BUSH: Good morning.
Earlier today, the first lady and I joined the White House staff for the inaugural Presidential Fitness Challenge Run and Walk.
Every participant took important steps on the road to better health, and runners and walkers volunteered to perform community service or contribute to charities.
The Fitness Challenge is part of a larger initiative I launched this week to help Americans live longer, better, and healthier lives. And the good news is this: When it comes to your health, even little steps can make a big difference.
If just 10 percent of adults began walking regularly, Americans could save $5.6 billion in costs related to heart disease, and research suggests that we can reduce cancer deaths by one-third simply by changing our diets and getting more exercise.
The title of our new health and fitness initiative says it all: Healthier Us. It is based on four guideposts to good health.
First: Be physically active every day. Second: Develop good eating habits. Third: Take advantage of preventative screenings. Fourth: Don't smoke, don't do drugs, and don't drink excessively.
These four simple measures will help all Americans get healthier and stronger.
First, be physically active every day. A report released this week by the Department of Health and Human Services confirms that almost 40 percent of adults get no leisure-time physical activity. This lack of activity can lead to poor health and higher health care costs.
Americans who are obese spend approximately 36 percent more on health care services than the general population. They spend 77 percent more on medications.
Here are some simple suggestions to help Americans get active. Walking 30 minutes a day can improve your health. Playing a game in the backyard will help parents and children get fit and spend some quality time with each other. And regularly hiking through a park can add years to your life.
This weekend, the federal government is waiving all entrance fees to national parks and other federal lands, so you can exercise while exploring America's natural beauty.
Exercise is a daily part of my life, and I urge all Americans to make it an important part of your lives.
Second, eat a nutritious diet. That means eating fruits and vegetables and cutting back on fatty foods. If you try your best to achieve these goals, you will be on the road to healthier living, and you'll have a lot more energy for your 30-minute walk.
Third, get preventative screenings, simple tests that can tell you if you're prone to developing certain diseases such as diabetes and cancer and heart disease. By acting on that information, you can help prevent a potentially life-threatening illness.
Fourth, cut out tobacco, drugs, and excessive drinking. Tobacco use is the single-most preventable cause of death and disease in America. Drug and alcohol abuse destroys lives and families and communities. Avoiding tobacco, drugs, and excessive alcohol can save your life.
This initiative is part of my administration's ongoing commitment to raising awareness about the benefits of exercise and healthy choices. Our message is simple, but important. The doctors in America should talk to your patients about the value of exercise and healthy eating. Parents should make sure your children get plenty of exercise and good nutrition, and make smart decisions.
By making minor changes to our lives, we will build a healthier and stronger America.
Thank you for listening.
WALLACE: The fitness-crazed president using his radio address and the bully pulpit to encourage Americans to get out exercise. Twenty other White House staffers, I might add, beat the president in today's race.
I'll report back what happens to them.
KARP: A long summer vacation.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Ahead on CNN's SATURDAY EDITION, more on the missing case -- the case of the missing girl in Utah.
Will the discovery of a wanted man in West Virginia help investigators here crack the case?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MESERVE: Welcome back to CNN's SATURDAY EDITION. I'm Jeanne Meserve in Salt Lake City, Utah, where investigators are waiting to hear what Bret Edmunds has to say. Bret Edmunds was discovered yesterday in a West Virginia hospital. He remains there in serious condition under armed guard until investigators have a chance to talk to him.
Police here in Salt Lake have wanted to talk to him since he was cited at a vigil for Elizabeth Smart shortly after her disappearance. He's a man with a criminal record. There are two outstanding warrants for his arrest. He knows the neighborhood where the Smart's home is. He was known to hang out up there.
Police want to talk to him about what he might have seen, who he might have seen and if, perhaps, he might even have some involvement in this crime.
HINOJOSA: So Jeanne, here's the question -- it's Maria -- I just wonder, I mean, they're saying that he's not a suspect and yet, you know, there's all of this kind of rumblings around him.
I mean, at what point -- do you think that they're just saying he's not a suspect so the guy eventually would have, like, gone into the hospital because he had kidney failure because he was overdosing on heroin, or what?
MESERVE: Maria, I don't think that he is viewed as a suspect right now. This is just a guy they really wanted to sit down and talk to. They have a lot of questions to go over with him.
It depends on which investigator you talk to how serious they think he is in this investigation. Some think he may have some real clues here because he was known to hang out in the neighborhood. But others say, not so; he's just someone who's on a list. They think they're just hoping to talk to him and end up crossing him off the list.
And that's useful. I mean, part of an investigation is a process of elimination. If they can take him off the list, it frees up resources to do other things in the investigation.
So they're really waiting to hear what he has to say. They're hoping they'll be able to talk to him today sometime.
WALLACE: Jeanne, it's Kelly.
I wanted to ask you how are the police officials reacting to the criticism? They're getting a lot of criticism this week, especially the handling of how Elizabeth Smart's sister's story appears to have changed on what she actually saw that night.
How are they responding to the criticism, and are some people saying that they're sort of bungling the case?
MESERVE: I don't think anybody's at the point of saying the Salt Lake City police are bungling the case.
Let me explain what happened in the case of Mary Catherine and her testimony. The initial information given to reporters was that Mary Catherine herself had been threatened during the abduction. What came to light this week is that she wasn't; that she pretend to be asleep, but heard her sister Elizabeth being threatened.
When the abductor and Elizabeth left the room, she then got out of bed, saw them in another part the house -- I've been told by officials it was the hallway. She then got back into bed; was too terrified to go see her parents.
So you see there's some discrepancy in the story.
What we've been told by the police official here who put out the first information, was that that information was very fast information that had come from dispatcher reports. It was largely second-hand. They put out what they had quickly.
Police quickly realized, apparently, that this was erroneous. They decided not to correct it. But the actual individual who made the statement, he didn't know he'd made a mistake until about an hour before the press was told.
What this appears to be is a case of real miscommunication within the police department.
But, as to how they're responds, they have discontinued their daily press briefings for a couple of reasons. One, they were tired of taking the criticism that they were taking in some of these briefings. Also they felt they didn't have a lot of new information to give.
So they felt that in briefing after briefing they were being asked the same questions; they were being forced to give the same response. They said, hey, this is a waste of our time, we're going to cut it out for now.
They say they will talk to us, though, if they have some actual news to report. And they did yesterday, when Bret Edmunds was found in West Virginia.
SNOW: Jeanne, I also heard you say this morning that there is something they're looking into -- was it a construction site, a pile of dirt, that dogs had sniffed -- can you tell us a little bit about that this morning?
She can't hear me.
Jeanne, can you hear me OK? It's Kate.
HINOJOSA: You know, let me -- here's something that I've been hearing a lot of, and it's difficult to talk about, but I think that we have to.
The question of so much attention being placed on Elizabeth Smart. I mean, I was having dinner with, actually, with someone who lost her own son, Mrs. Diallo, Kadiatou Diallo. And she was saying, you know, the problem is, is that, you know, you watch this on all the channels, but if you turn on, for example, BET, the Black Entertainment Network, they apparently did a one-hour special about this missing girl, Alexis Patterson, who is African-American, missing about the same time.
And the question is: Why this, and not that story? It's complicated.
WALLACE: I think you raise such a very good point, because with all this attention, the point is, would a case just like the point -- the one you brought up, an African-American girl, why isn't it commanding the attention -- again, difficult to discuss, but I think it's important to open up why the disparity in coverage.
SNOW: Jeanne, I think you're back with us now, right? Can you hear me? It is Kate?
MESERVE: I am. Yes, I can hear you. Technology is great.
(CROSSTALK)
SNOW: I was trying to ask you about some news this morning that I heard you report that they were looking into -- is it a dirt pile where dogs had been sniffing around? Can you tell us about that?
MESERVE: Yes, there is an ongoing volunteer search effort. Last night some volunteers were working with dogs south of Salt Lake City. They were at a construction site and some dogs hit on a pile of dirt there. It was very late at night by the time police got there; too dark, they felt, to go in there. They thought there was perhaps a risk of destroying any evidence that might be present.
So they're going back, Jeanne, in about an hour's time with some cadaver dogs to check out that pile of dirt to discover exactly what it was that those dogs last night hit on and whether it's relevant to this case.
This has nothing to do, by the way, with Bret Edmunds. This is not the result of any information that came from any conversations that authorities have had with him.
SNOW: Jeanne Meserve out in Salt Lake for us this morning. Appreciate you getting up and joining us remote. We do appreciate it.
MESERVE: My pleasure.
SNOW: And just ahead, intercepted warnings on the eve of September 11 and a political storm now over the information that was leaked.
CNN SATURDAY EDITION will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SNOW: Welcome back to CNN's SATURDAY EDITION. I'm Kate Snow.
On Wednesday CNN broke the story of the wording of two messages the National Security Agency had intercepted talking about September 11 on the day before the attacks. Now, those messages were not translated, though, until September 12.
Causing as much, if not more of a stir, is that the wording of these two NSA intercepts was then leaked to the press and reported by CNN and others.
Members of Congress now want an investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. PORTER GOSS (R-FL), CHAIRMAN, INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: When the vice president calls you up and said there's a story in a major paper that says, and on a major network that is attributed to congressional sources, obviously that gets our attention.
We want to know if that is true, to what extent, so we can put a stop to that. And I think that is the reason we have asked for a professional investigation by the attorney general.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SNOW: Professional investigation by the attorney general of congressional sources.
Not a big surprise in this town that Congress sometimes talks about things that happen behind closed doors, Kelly...
WALLACE: And the White House, and the Pentagon, and the CIA.
That's what's so interesting.
SNOW: Exactly. But the White House really -- I mean, Ari Fleischer talked about this, Dick Cheney. Vice President Cheney got on the phone and obviously called these members of Congress, so concerned. Why are they so concerned?
WALLACE: And that is an unusual move. We're told President Bush was so upset about it that he told the vice president to make the phone call. Ari Fleischer -- and he used the bully pulpit through the day that day to say that the concern is compromising sources and methods, that if these would-be terrorists find out, "Oh, so U.S. intelligence picked up those conversations, well, then we shouldn't use those methods again to communicate."
And Ari Fleischer did bring up one example, a leak back in 1998 which -- Barbara, you probably know very well -- that a leak that the NSA, the National Security Agency, was able to listen in on Osama bin Laden's use of a satellite phone. They're saying as soon as that leak was out in the public domain, bin Laden never used that phone again.
STARR: That's absolutely right. But you know, the terrorists are not quite as illiterate as maybe the administration thinks they are. They've known this for a very, very long time.
And my question is this: Is the administration doing this investigation because they're embarrassed, or because there is a substantive national security problem here?
It seems to me they want it both ways. They say, "Even if we had these intercepts, we could not have stopped September 11. They're not definitive enough. We don't know anything. But there's such a national security problem, we have to have a major investigation."
You can't have it both ways.
SNOW: It's interesting, the actual fact that there were these NSA intercepts, these messages that had been intercepted, that came out a few weeks ago. It was this week that CNN reported, as I said, the details, the actual wording of what the messages were. So this has sort of dribbled out.
And you make a really important point, Barbara, which our national security correspondent David Ensor, has made after talking to his sources, which -- at the NSA, even -- which is they get millions, and literally millions of messages a day.
So to think that they could have translated something, you know, it's just -- it's unreasonable to think that they translate everything they get. (CROSSTALK)
HINOJOSA: A lot of people, though, who are talking -- I'll tell you that kind of like what I'm hearing on the street is this sense of -- and the word "manipulation" is a very weighted word in these times.
But I think that people are beginning to feel like, you know, there was a sense that maybe post-9/11, you know, politics would change and there wouldn't be this infighting, and there wouldn't be this kind of backbiting. And this sense that perhaps, you know, these leaks that are coming out, that we all feel that our collective emotional strings are being pulled by al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden, but that this kind of stuff, when we're hearing the leaks, and then the battle of the leaks, is that: Are we getting played, also, by the government?
Are we pawns of this big old game that's happening here in D.C., and the rest of us are just kind of taking in this information...
(CROSSTALK)
STARR: Oh, I think absolutely. I mean, there's plenty of finger-pointing to go around because when you look at the NSA, for example, it's a bureaucratic fact. Congress approves their budget, Congress approves their programs. The NSA says they don't they have the money or technology to do the job right. Congress hasn't given them the money.
Congress says, "Hey, you guys are leaking. You're trying to cover your backs."
Absolutely, there's just lots and lots of finger-pointing that now several months later wasn't patriotic at the beginning, but now we're in finger-pointing season.
WALLACE: And what is very clear is a fine line being walked by Members of Congress, CIA, FBI, even the White House about how much should the public be told about these so-called intelligence lapses, and how much should we not be told to protect so-called intelligence gathering.
SNOW: I can't tell you how many members, who I will not name, have said to me in hallways this week, "I'm being very careful. I can tell you this. I won't tell you that."
I mean, they're conscious of it, and they do take it seriously. We should make that point.
WALLACE: Right.
SNOW: I mean, it's not like they're leaking like sieves. They do take it seriously.
Several people said to me this week after we reported that information that they felt it really wasn't a national security threat now to talk about something that happened back in September. KARP: I can just say, as a complete Washington outsider, the first reaction I had when I heard about the inquiry, it's all about covering their rear. It's all about making sure that we're not learning too much.
And we're starting to think, "Who are these people running this country? Who are these people who are supposedly in charge of intelligence?"
They don't want us to necessarily know what they had because we're going to start second-guessing.
HINOJOSA: I just worry about how much time they're spending on all of this investigation when one -- the FBI should, for example, be working on making their staff more diverse so that if a Jose Padilla can get involved with al Qaeda, how come we don't have someone in the FBI can who can do this as well? You know, there's a lot of charges of what's happening with the FBI that it's just an old-boy network that's very white, and that we need to be -- that's what I'm thinking about.
It's hey, what -- how much time are you spending on this? What about what's happening now?
STARR: Absolutely, and there was more news along the same lines on the national security front this week, just ahead on CNN SATURDAY EDITION, a news alert, and why a stray plane put the White House on alert, and many Americans on edge.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SNOW: An important source of information about the news of the day, the terrorism war. And also, a transcript of this show can found online at CNN.com. The AOL keyword of course, CNN.
Time now for a news alert. We go to Miles O'Brien in Atlanta -- Miles.
(NEWS ALERT)
STARR: Welcome back to CNN SATURDAY EDITION. I'm Barbara Starr.
This week, new concerns about post-September 11 security after a private plane violated restricted air space here in Washington, even prompting a White House evacuation.
Press Secretary Ari Fleischer played down the incident.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The Secret Service took precautionary steps to protect the White House in case it was necessary. As events turned out, it was not necessary to take any additional actions. The president was neither notified nor moved because the nature of the threat did not indicate that he needed to be. (END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: Well, this poor pilot, a small plane flying through bad weather, he unexpectedly -- he tries to avoid the bad weather, he drifts over restricted airspace in Washington, D.C. and becomes the focus of a major incident.
The NORAD, the North American Aerospace Defense Command scrambled two F-16s to go up and escort him down. And the questions started to be raised again, after September 11, is the airspace over the Washington safe? Can the White House really be protected if a determined terrorist wants to get through?
Now this man was not a terrorist. There's no question. But it did raise questions about vulnerability.
WALLACE: And legitimate questions, I think, we all agree. And I wanted to ask you, following this incident, is the Pentagon considering -- we heard some suggestion -- considering whether there be 24-hour combat air patrols, or widening the restricted airspace around the White House.
Are those realistic possibilities?
STARR: Well, let's remember, that's what happened right after September 11. There were 24-hour, around-the-clock air patrols over New York and Washington. And it was the White House's decision several weeks ago, back in May or so, to end those around-the-clock air patrols. They said security had been improved at airports. They could control the prospect of a threat. It was all acceptable risk.
WALLACE: Is it money, dollar signs that we're talking about?
STARR: It's everything. It is money and dollar signs. And it's just a terrific wear and tear on the Air Force, on pilots and airplanes. And the military will tell you that these air patrols are really for nothing more than the public comfort.
They -- you know, unless you're going to have every aircraft flying in the United States escorted, you know, start-to-finish by a military escort, there's always going to be some risk.
HINOJOSA: And I just found this out right now. So wait a second, this is happening over the White House. There is an evacuation of the White House. And the president doesn't find out until the next day?
STARR: Well, we're going to ask Kelly about that.
WALLACE: I will tell you, we were in the briefing room. It was Thursday, because this happened on Wednesday. And Ari Fleischer said that the president was not notified until Thursday morning, and this happened Wednesday night.
And many of us asked, including myself, "Wait a second, you mean the president -- what if he found out -- what if he happened to be watching CNN and learned about it? Wouldn't he have been upset that there was an evacuation of the press corps staffers? Why was he not told?"
The message is that he was not in any danger, that the threat didn't rise to that level, because as Barbara, you so well reported, the plane, while it entered that sort of expanded air space, it didn't enter sort of the permanent restricted airspace by the White House. And it was never approaching the White House.
HINOJOSA: So -- and the list of who to evacuate first, it's reporters first and the president last?
(CROSSTALK)
WALLACE: I think they value reporters maybe a little more than the commander in chief.
HINOJOSA: So did you evacuate, Kelly?
WALLACE: John King was there. John King was actually doing a live shot on CNN, "LIVE FROM ATLANTA," 8:00, and there he is live doing a Q&A with Christiane Amanpour, and all of a sudden diplomatic security, Tim McCann (ph), our producer, come up, and John's noticing right away. And I believe he said on the air, "Excuse me, Christiane, I need to evacuate."
I mean, it was severe enough to interrupt a live report and evacuate all of the staff and press corps.
HINOJOSA: When you first found out about this, Kelly, were you scared? Did you think...
WALLACE: It was so funny that you asked that, because I was out to dinner. So I come back. My boyfriend is calling his mother. And they're talking and she says, "Oh, by the way, the White House was evacuated." And he says, "The White House is evacuated?"
Right away you're stunned because it's the first time the White House was evacuated since September 11. Then we watched John's report, so it put everyone at ease.
But it is a scary time all times there.
SNOW: Barbara, maybe you said this, but how long did it take to scramble the planes and get the planes up? Because, I mean, just as a point of example, I know this wasn't a bad threat, but...
STARR: Right. But you know, they actually met their mandated deadline. Planes are on a 15 minute alert. They were up and in the air within 14 minutes.
But it was too late.
STARR: The pilot, due to the speed of his aircraft, had already passed by the White House, passed by Washington. They didn't intercept him until he was 50 miles south of town. SNOW: Which is -- is that why you're saying that this is more for our public feel-good than it is for really stopping...
STARR: I think there's real questions still. In this country, are we really prepared to see a civilian aircraft shot down by the U.S. military.
WALLACE: Could they have?
STARR: That is a line that is a very difficult one to cross.
SNOW: What would they have done if they had run into that plane?
STARR: Well, under the rules, that decision goes to the president. So I suppose they would have had to have told him then.
That's a presidential decision under almost any circumstance that an airliner be shot down.
HINOJOSA: But it would have taken so much time for them to inform the president -- I mean, by this time, the guy who is in the plane is who knows where.
STARR: And that's why it is largely an issue for public comfort. The military says, "Look, unless you're going to have us escort everything up there, get a grip." This is...
SNOW: It doesn't feel so comforting.
KARP: Maybe they should, rather than step things up, just eliminate it completely, because it seems to be causing more harm than good. If it's for our comfort, and it's not working. Because this isn't the only breach that's happened.
STARR: Well, security people will also tell you the real issue to address is security on the ground, that before an airplane gets into the sky, airline security, airport security. And they felt they'd made some progress since September 11 on that.
But it's still not great for general aviation, these small planes that fly around.
WALLACE: And I wanted to ask you, Ari -- obviously Ari Fleischer want to -- didn't address this, but he said, "Suffice it to say, there are overlapping security measures. There's some redundancy."
Now, without talking about national security precautions, there must be other measures in place to protect the White House and the president beyond the combat air patrols.
STARR: The question always is, is there some sort of surface-to- air missile capability that could take down an airliner? The question is, would that happen over a populated area? You would have debris fall. Is the public really ready to see that?
And could it possibly cause an enormous tragedy by accidentally bringing down a civilian airliner flying by, landing at Reagan National Airport?
It's a really tough call.
HINOJOSA: And another tough call when we move to politics here was probably inevitable, that someone involved in the September 11 rescue would turn to politics.
A firefighter turned Republican congressional candidate. Politics and 9/11 when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HINOJOSA: Welcome back to CNN's SATURDAY EDITION. I'm Maria Hinojosa.
This week, a new reminder of September 11. A former New York City firefighter, Joe Findley (ph) stood outside his old firehouse in Manhattan. Ladder Seven lost six men in the World Trade Center collapse. Findley (ph) was injured in the cleanup, and Findley now plays up his connection.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE FINDLEY, FORMER NEW YORK CITY FIREFIGHTER: Good morning. On September 11, American counted on firefighters to do their jobs, and we did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HINOJOSA: Now Findley (ph) is running for the Long Island seat held by Democratic Congressman Steve Israel. The congressman says he respects Findley (ph), but no one should use September 11 for political purposes.
And almost immediately you heard people just saying, "Oh, wait a second, he's running. Well, this is good, sort of. I'm confused. Do I want to criticize a firefighter?" And then, you know, he's running as a Republican.
I asked him, I said, "Maybe you might have wanted to run as an independent. You know, what about the guys who are Democrats?" And one of the higher-ups in the fire department said, "Hey, Maria, come on, we know how many firefighters are actually Democrats."
(CROSSTALK)
HINOJOSA: And I was like, oh, God, you know, I guess the part that raises lots of issues is, you know, people just -- we really want to respect these firefighters for what they do. On the other hand, it's almost too soon. It's happening too quickly.
And one other quick thing, the local firefighters in the town where he's running from out in Suffolk, have actually endorsed the Democrat, Steve Israel.
KARP: Did they do it before he entered the race? HINOJOSA: At the same time they made the announcement, so...
SNOW: It's interesting. I talked to some folks on the Hill about that race, and a Democrat that I talked to said, well, first of all you quoted Israel as saying that no one should use 9/11 for political purposes, but this person told me, well, he was sort of asked that question, I guess, by your producer -- you know, would you have a problem with someone using -- so they were trying to be very careful about: We're not getting out there and saying Findley (ph) is using 9/11 for political purposes.
So the Democrats are going to be very careful to not accuse him of that, on the other hand. And a Republican I talked to said, "Oh, yes, I hope they do try to make that charge, because we'll come right back at them."
Nobody wants to run against, you know, someone who's had a kind of a personal trauma like that. The Republican I was talking to said he's unbeatable.
HINOJOSA: But the thing is that what he needs to do if this is going to work, is he's got to be -- there has got to be some meat there. I mean, I kept on asking him -- because he said it's very important for us to have someone in Congress who has been to Ground Zero, who has worked at Ground Zero.
And I kept asking him, "What is that going to bring -- how does that make you a better politician?" And I wasn't able to get a real...
WALLACE: What does he say to that?
HINOJOSA: Well, kind of, I've been there, I've seen this, and I feel that I've been the best person to be able to take on security issues.
That's not enough. I mean every politician right now...
SNOW: This guy has no political background, apparently, at all.
HINOJOSA: No.
SNOW: I mean, as this guy -- as one person said to me, came out of the blue. Nobody -- he wasn't even suppose to run.
STARR: Is part of this really the fact that 9/11 is, Kate, now part of the permanent political fabric of this country in Congress, in elections, in local communities? It seems to me what underlies all of this, is 9/11 is here to stay. It's never going to be over. It is going to define America.
WALLACE: No question. And the world has changed.
One thing it reminded me of -- just reading and watching your story -- reminded me a lot of the case of Congresswoman Carolyn McCarthy. And not comparing the two candidates at all but she, of course, as our viewers will know, lost, I believe, her husband, right; and her son was very seriously injured during the Long Island railroad shooting. She then really used the bully pulpit to talk about gun control and a fight for victims, and she won a seat in the U.S. Congress.
So it reminds me -- it's that delicate balance here. It is difficult, no question, fore a challenger -- for the incumbent to go against such a challenge, but is it political or it someone really kind of galvanized by this tragedy, saying "I want to fight for victims, for firefighters, for New York City?"
HINOJOSA: Well, that's the other thing. You know, you see this guy and he says that because of the work that he did at Ground Zero that he now has asthma and can't work as a firefighter any more.
And so there's a part of me that says, well, this is great. He wants to continue his public service, understood. But you can't get away from the fact that he is -- I mean, that he did hold his announcement in his -- in front of his Manhattan firehouse. His seat is an hour-and-a-half away in Long Island.
Why is he announcing in New York City if he's running for a seat in Long Island?
So there's those kind of...
SNOW: Right, but isn't his explanation that he wants to give something back -- I mean, like the Carolyn McCarthy story. He wants to give something back now.
HINOJOSA: Yes, but if he wanted to do that, he could still say the same thing and then he would perhaps be -- there would be less charges that he's using his firefighter background if he was in Long Island saying "This is who I am and I'm trying to give back."
It just -- the point is that it's uncomfortable. And a lot of people -- we were out in Long Island asking questions, and people just have that difficulty of even wanting to criticize.
And I think that's, as you say, Barbara, it's kind of like it's this new reality that we have to kind of balance ourselves.
KARP: By the way, you know whose seat that is?
WALLACE: I do....
KARP: Rick Lazio, Rick Lazio's old seat. Remember Rick Lazio, who tried to run for the Senate and...
HINOJOSA: That's right.
SNOW: And lost to somebody else.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK) KARP: Decided he'd rather make like $700,000 than run again for the -- I don't know how much he makes. But he makes quite a bit of money now...
SNOW: Exactly.
KARP: ... and didn't want to run for the seat again.
We're going to switch gears away from politics. And when we come back, the United States was eliminated from the World Cup. But will Team USA's surprising performance finally get Americans hooked on soccer?
That is straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KARP: I'm Josie Karp with CNN sports. This is CNN SATURDAY EDITION.
How many of us set the alarm for the middle of the night to catch World Cup Soccer live from Korea? And how many millions of Americans were watching the U.S. team yesterday when it fought, but lost, to Germany?
Will we turn away from the Super Bowl, the NBA, NASCAR and Mike Piazza and join a lot of the rest of the world and become soccer crazy?
And if you don't mind, I'm going to start and answer that question. My gut reaction is, no.
Over the course of probably the past 12 years or so, there have been, supposedly, a lot of seminal moments for soccer in this country: when they first qualified after a 50-year absence for the World Cup back in 1990; when they hosted the World Cup here in the United States in 1994; when the women's team won the gold medal at the '96 Atlanta Olympics.
Everyone pointed each time, hey, this is going to change everything.
It never happened. I don't think it's going to happen this time. But I'm not going to say it's never going to happen and...
WALLACE: But why?
(CROSSTALK)
WALLACE: But why, Josie? Tell us, please?
(CROSSTALK)
HINOJOSA: .. OK, and then Barbara and I are like -- here's us.
KARP: It's not just sports. No, it's so huge. It's a social thing. Soccer is politics in a lot of countries. It is very important.
I think what -- the problem here is sports gets passed along from your parents. It's a generational thing. It's a passion thing. I love sports because my dad loves sports.
I think as I kid, I played soccer. I don't know about you guys, it's going to happen in the next generation, because our parents didn't even know about soccer. One of the soccer player's mothers said she couldn't even spell "soccer." And this is a kid who was on the national team when he was a boy.
SNOW: My husband said that, because he's a huge soccer fan, and he played all the way through college. His parents said, why don't you try this new, different sport, honey? Why don't you try this soccer thing?
KARP: This innovative thing that just showed up.
But -- go ahead, Kate.
SNOW: Well, I was just saying, the 20-year-olds who are on this team, I've seen them quoted as, you know, they grew up with soccer, though.
KARP: They did grow up playing it, but even then people asked, why are you playing that? Why aren't you playing football, why aren't you playing basketball?
So it's going to take time. They're going to love soccer, then they're going to pass it on to their kids. And then the next -- I don't think we're going to be alive to see it.
WALLACE: But it's just, the thing is so great, it is so huge everywhere else around the world. And some -- I've heard some sports people say it's because this country, we like to have people score. And it's boring to have 90 minutes and it just be one-nothing; that people are not as excited.
But I would say people watch a baseball game that could be -- Barbara, what do you think about a baseball game?
(CROSSTALK)
STARR: I have to tell you. I mean, not to take it back to the Pentagon and the military, but I just came back from a trip with Defense Secretary Rumsfeld through Europe and the Middle East for nine days.
World Cup around the world -- we're on this whole diplomatic military trip with the secretary of defense -- was all people were talking about. We were at NATO; we're talking about the future of mankind. The secretary general of NATO was spotted in the hallway watching a TV that had been set up for the World Cup.
He had left the ministers' meeting, and was checking out the World Cup.
HINOJOSA: So in a sense, soccer could be the sport that unifies the world? I mean, growing up and seeing this, it was, I mean, in Mexico...
WALLACE: Yes, how about that U.S.-Mexico game the other day?
HINOJOSA: Well, you know, there was a talk about, so who do you root for?
And I have to say when I heard that the U.S. won, I was like, oh, and then I was like, well, that's good. Oh.
You know, I mean, the Mexicans, what I was hearing was like, you know, the United States, no one watches it. In Mexico, the entire country was watching it. We should have won just because there were so many more millions who wanted us to win, but...
KARP: Maybe we need some sort of tangential comparisons linking politics and sports.
But we had a very real comparison this week. You normally see Senator John McCain in a lot of settings. But he was at a Senate hearing this week talking about baseball, sports and steroids.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I'm concerned about baseball. I'm concerned about the possibility of a looming strike. I'm concerned about the health of the baseball players themselves. But I'm more concerned about the effect this recent spate of publicity has on young athletes all over America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KARP: My initial reaction, watching this and reporting on this, again, as a Washington outsider, is why are they wasting their time? We have so many more important things. We are at war going on in this country, and they're talking about a small population of baseball players -- or some people say a large population -- taking steroids, which, you know, who cares?
WALLACE: Well, no, no, no. I mean, I do think it's a big deal in the sense that, first, lawmakers love to talk about issues like baseball and put them out on the national spotlight on a variety of issues.
But what's become a big issue is that Ken Caminiti, or a former big Major League star who talked about saying steroid use is rampant. And I believe other sports -- you know better -- basketball, other sports, they do random testing.
And it's a little bit like, where's the integrity of the game if some people are saying everyone is using steroids, but hey -- no one, the players and the coaches don't want to have testing. STARR: Also, essentially, because these players are a role model for young children around the country. And if young kids see these guys doing it, they think, oh, it's OK. It's the route to success.
SNOW: That's what the lawmakers said in the hearing. I think every one of them said it's about -- the reason they had the hearing was because of the role model factor.
KARP: And they have tried to take some bigger steps. It came out over the past two week that in California they're proposing legislation that would mandate that professional sports teams playing in those states would have to be under some sort of random testing.
And then I read, also, one of the people who proposed such legislation, you know what, indicated that, really, by taking this step, they just wanted to send a message.
Baseball is in the middle of negotiations on a new collective bargaining agreement. There's a lot of talk about a strike.
So I think with the Senate hearing and with these other more localized legislation, people are just trying to send the message, hey, it's important, do something about it; we're not going to intervene, but we're going to pretend like we are.
HINOJOSA: OK, so to take it to a place that is really not all that important, you know how we all have, like, good days with our hair and bad days with our hair?
But not all of us have those moments captured by Jay Leno.
Our Kelli Arena and our Kate Snow on Jay Leno last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE TONIGHT SHOW")
JAY LENO, HOST: You know, you ever wonder what reporters do the second, the minute before they go on the air? I just noticed this -- and I stuck this in the VCR and I taped it for you. Take a look.
Here's CNN this morning. Look in the upper-right-hand corner. See the woman up there? She's getting ready to give her -- to come on. She's going to be the next reporter up. Now, she bends down. OK. Is she getting the notes? What's she thinking? What's she doing?
And then she comes back up again. There she is; she's doing the hair. Takes out a giant can of hair spray, just used the entire can of hair spray.
There you go. There you go. I love this.
She's back down again, back in the purse. OK, let's straighten the panty hose.
There you go, look at that: Beautiful! Oh, it looks beautiful!
(END VIDEO CLIP) HINOJOSA: Oh my God, Kate!
(CROSSTALK)
HINOJOSA: You are going to have the environmentalists coming after you. What are you doing with all that hair spray?
WALLACE: Oh geez, David Letterman, if you're watching, you're free Monday night.
SNOW: I saw it last night. Somebody tipped me off that it might be on last night, so I watched last night.
WALLACE: What was it like watching that?
SNOW: You know, I got that feeling in my stomach. Putting on hair spray is something you do in the bathroom, you know. You don't exactly want everyone on -- but I had no idea, obviously, that I was on that monitor. That's where Kelli Arena was...
(CROSSTALK)
HINOJOSA: ... getting ready for those live events, you never...
SNOW: I had come running in from a hearing, and I was trying to, really quick, get ready. You know how that is -- your last minute -- trying to get.
I'm making excuses. I don't mind. I mean, look, it was funny. It was funny.
(CROSSTALK)
KARP: ... crack up. Made the whole audience laugh.
WALLACE: Look, we're standing outside. You hate it. You have people walking by the White House, and there you are standing in front of the camera putting hair spray on.
They're like, oh, doesn't she have anything more important things -- she could be looking at her notes.
SNOW: But I was. Right I was right before that. I was.
(CROSSTALK)
SNOW: All right. I'm Kate Snow in Washington, as you know by now. Thank you for watching SATURDAY EDITION. We appreciate it.
Up next, a news alert. That's followed by "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS" with actors Tom Cruise and Billy Bob Thornton.
Thanks for watching.
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