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Government Fights West Nile Virus; Will Major League Baseball Rid of Steroids?; Dingell Wins Michigan's Democratic Primary
Aired August 10, 2002 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN FINANCIAL NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to our viewers across North America. This is CNN's SATURDAY EDITION. I'm financial news correspondent Christine Romans in Washington. Money, the markets and Martha Stewart just ahead.
REA BLAKEY, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm CNN medical correspondent Rea Blakey. All that buzzing isn't just West-Nile- carrying mosquitoes. It's the sound of governments hurrying to catch up.
JOSIE KARP, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: I'm sports correspondent Josie Karp. Barry Bonds said hello to home run number 600 last night. But will Major League Baseball say goodbye to steroids, or is this more pre-strike warm-up?
DANA BASH, CNN CAPITOL HILL PRODUCER: I'd Dana Bash, Capitol Hill producer. How Democrats fought among themselves in Michigan this week, and what we learned about gender, generations and old-fashioned politics.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I'm White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux in Crawford, Texas. I'll be talking about Vice President Dick Cheney. He says he's game for another four years.
We're now waiting for the president's weekly radio address. It'll happen in just moments, but first, this news alert with Charles Molineaux in Atlanta.
(NEWSBREAK)
MALVEAUX: Well, the president has already started his day. He left the Crawford ranch about 6:30 this morning. He his golfing now. Teed off at about 7:20. But he jumped out of his golf cart to talk to the pool reporters specifically about Iraq, again saying that there is no timetable to decide military action against Saddam Hussein, again saying that Iraq is an enemy of the United States until proven otherwise, and also saying of course that the United States continues to consult with allies as well as members of Congress before making any type of action.
This at the same time, we're expecting about 30 minutes from now, there are going to be Iraqi opposition leaders, six of them, who will be meeting via videophone, actually, with the vice president. They're going to be at the Old Executive Office Building. They're going to be able to have a conversation with him.
It is all a part of the administration's message that they are very serious about regime change, the ousting of Saddam Hussein. This is something that they have been stressing throughout the week. They have also been dismissing these overtures that have been made by Hussein, saying, "Let's let the weapons inspectors back in to resume talks."
Here's the radio address from the president.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: On Tuesday, I will host an economic forum at Baylor University in Texas to meet with people on the front lines of the American economy. Small-business owners, working people, investors, corporate leaders, economists, farmers and government policymakers are coming together to discuss where our economy stands, the impact of the policies we have put in place, and the steps we are taking as we move forward.
After a recession that was beginning as I took office, the terrorist attacks of September the 11th and the corporate scandals that have recently come to light, the American economy faces challenges. Yet, the great strengths of America are more than equal to its challenges. American workers are productive. American entrepreneurs are visionary. And we are acting to reach the full potential of our economy.
These efforts began last year with a tax cut that boosted our economy at just the right time, and continues to put more money into the hands of consumers.
I have just signed into law trade promotion authority, which I will use to open foreign markets to American goods, creating high- paying jobs at home.
I worked with Congress to enact new laws designed to keep corporate executives and auditors honest, and to punish those who are not. And we are actively investigating, arresting and prosecuting corporate wrongdoers. And this week, hundreds of companies will submit signed statements to the SEC, either verifying that their financial records are accurate or letting investors know if there are any problems.
Yet, there is more we must do: more to promote long-term growth and create jobs in our economy; more to enforce budget discipline in Congress, so we can focus on urgent priorities like the war on terror; more to guarantee pension security and improve access to affordable health care; more to educate every child for economic and personal success.
At next week's economic forum, we will discuss all these topics. Economists will provide their latest ideas and analysis of the economic recovery. But I'm also eager to hear from Americans from all walks of life, who are working hard to make ends meet during these uncertain economic times. And I expect I will get a wide variety of suggestions on strengthening the economy. Let me tell you about some of the Americans participating in this forum. Xavier Teixido, a restaurant owner from Delaware. He immigrated to this country from Paraguay when he was 2 years old and worked his way up in the restaurant business. He was recently elected chairman of the board of the National Restaurant Association.
Maria Sobrino is another entrepreneur who will attend the forum. In 1982, she brought her mother's traditional Mexican desserts to the U.S. market. Twenty years later, she owns a successful food production company in Southern California.
Mr. Teixido and Mrs. Sobrino will tell us about the obstacles small-business owners face and offer opinions about how the federal government can help small businesses thrive and create more jobs.
Robert Landon and Jimmy Morgan will also join us at the forum. Robert is a driver for UPS down in Waco and a member of the teamsters. Jimmy works for Boeing in Wichita, Kansas, and he has held a number of jobs in the company, from factory worker to management. Robert and Jimmy know that more trade means more jobs, and they want to be sure our nation continues to open foreign markets to American goods.
With the help of Xavier Teixido, Maria Sobrino, Robert Landon, Jimmy Morgan and other participants, the economic forum will generate ideas to strengthen our economy and make workers and investors more secure. I look forward to participating in the discussions and sharing our findings with the American people.
Thank you for listening.
MALVEAUX: Now, President Bush was talking about the economic summit that he is holding. It's going to be on Tuesday in Waco, Texas. And this has been really a recurring theme he has talked about, about strengthening the economy, the need for it. There are going to be more than 200 participants involved in this.
The administration a bit sensitive about calling this a working vacation, so they got him off his ranch in the very beginning of the week, went to the home state of the WorldCom debacle, that in Jackson, Mississippi. That's where he addressed WorldCom employees who lost their jobs, their pensions, security, even a bit of state pride because of this whole scandal.
But what struck me that was interesting this week is that he talked about the positives of the economy, this trade promotion authority as well as the corporate responsibility bill. But then he also made a point of saying that the recession started when he first took office, that this was not on his watch.
I'm wondering if this really resonates with people, if they're really going to think going into the mid-term elections, if that really is going to make a difference. What do you think?
BASH: Suzanne, there's no question that Democrats are bracing themselves for a fall of Republicans really going back to the Clinton administration and reminding people, or trying to tell people, that this was a Clinton problem.
But on the economic summit, Democrats are already, talking to some of them up here on the Hill this week, they're having a field day with the summit. They say, "How can you take this seriously? It's a PR stunt. It's not real."
They're having -- they pointed to the fact that the White House is inviting some big Republican donors who are the heads of some big companies. And they say, "This is not about a real discussion. This is about a PR stunt so that people think that the White House is doing something on the economy."
ROMANS: And Wall Street, as a matter of fact, is a little underwhelmed as well. I mean, this is going to be nice. It's going to be a great way to sort of showcase what's going on in the economy. But there's some other issues that are more in the forefront of Wall Street, not necessarily this economic summit, as much as it is ballyhooed now.
BASH: You know, Suzanne, I'm not...
MALVEAUX: Well, I know it is too...
BASH: I was going to say, on the issue of Iraq, which, as we know, the president spoke about this morning as well, I wonder what the White House thought about the comments this week from House Majority Leader Dick Armey. He essentially advocated a policy of containment, saying, "As long as Saddam is rattling inside his own borders, we shouldn't bother him."
BLAKEY: Why do we care?
BASH: Yes, why do we care. What did the White House think of that?
MALVEAUX: I mean, it was interesting because the administration didn't outright say, "Well, we don't agree with you," but they said, "You're right to go ahead and express your opinion." We heard that specifically from Donald Rumsfeld, secretary of defense.
But they mostly focused, instead of his comments, on responding to Saddam Hussein himself, when he actually gave that huge speech to the Iraqi people, fire and brimstone, you know, against the United States. And they said, "Well, this is insignificant."
They went on to dismiss the invitation to the United Nations to resume talks on weapons inspections, really kind of just dismissing that altogether, and even that invitation to members of Congress, to actually invite them to come over to Iraq and take a look for themselves for these weapons. They just thought it was absolutely ludicrous.
It's clear the strategy of the White House is at least to put him completely out of the picture, say, "He's totally irrelevant. We're going to be dealing instead with this Iraqi opposition groups. We're going to be dealing with our allies." But it is interesting also to note, too, the tone. A lot of people say that they think the tone was different with the administration talking about, "Well, we'll consult members of Congress. We'll consult our allies before we take any action." Really, less of a unilateralist approach, a lot of people saw it as somewhat more of that, on that vein, earlier in the week.
BLAKEY: All right, Suzanne, thanks.
As we know, the president obviously on vacation, but mosquitoes bearing West Nile virus disease, they're on the job this summer. What's going on? We'll have more when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOMMY THOMPSON, SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: We have a real serious problem facing us in America. It's nothing to get real worried about, just be careful. If you're out, make sure you put some mosquito repellent on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLAKEY: The top health official in the United States, Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thompson, talking about West Nile virus.
Welcome back to SATURDAY EDITION. I'm CNN medical correspondent Rea Blakey.
Researchers from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention are in Louisiana, and they're hoping to track what is the largest outbreak of West Nile in humans since the disease was first identified in the U.S. three years ago in New York City. Now, 135 cases in humans have been found, most of the people in Louisiana, Mississippi and Texas. Seven people, unfortunately, have died in Louisiana.
We obviously mentioned this story last week, but within the last week it's really taken on a new life. More and more cases have developed, and it's really growing across the country.
I'm curious to know, because I'm sort of in the battle, I'm going to judge you as viewers, Suzanne, I'll start with you. Do you think we're making too much of this? Are we sort of causing a panic in regards to West Nile virus?
MALVEAUX: It doesn't seem like you're really making too much of it.
It's interesting, because I wanted today ask you, I mean, I covered this story a couple of years ago. I remember hearing about West Nile virus and these kind of predictions or warnings that it was going to be coming to the United States and spreading.
But my question is, really, what was done in those last couple of years? I mean, why didn't we hear more in the interim about this virus that was going to be spreading or that it was heading this way? I mean, what has the government been doing?
BLAKEY: Yes, I'll tell you, basically the CDC does its best to track these things as they go. But like any large governmental entity, it takes them a while to develop data, so on and so forth. During the last three years, they've been spending money on West Nile virus.
The interesting thing, though, is that there's another aspect of this. There's a St. Louis encephalitis, which is also transmitted by mosquitoes. Some 5,000 cases occur every year, and yet we really hear nothing about it. So it is sort of an interesting paradigm.
And another thing, just for perspective sake, you know, each year we talk about the flu and people getting vaccinated, et cetera. There are 20,000 deaths every year from influenza, and yet we're talking about something that's affected, in deaths, seven people this year, which is significant, you know, not discounting that. But sometimes the things get a little bit out of proportion.
KARP: Well, that's what -- in reading all the reports about this, you get to the fact that the people who have become seriously ill from this are ones who have some sort of immune deficiency and are susceptible to all other kinds of diseases, as well.
And it makes me think that maybe we are blowing it a little bit out of proportion. I'm sure it's terrible when you do have it -- the people who recover from it, it's uncomfortable -- but could resources that we're spending on West Nile be devoted to things that we know kill people in much greater numbers?
ROMANS: It is preventable, is what you're saying though. I mean, it's sort of like you're getting the word out, medical correspondents and television news organizations and newspapers, getting the word out that, you know, there is a way to sort of prevent, you know, this from happening.
BASH: But the reality is, some of the things that you are told to do -- wear long pants, long sleeves -- I mean, we live in Washington.
(LAUGHTER)
I mean, how hot is it here? It's like 100 degrees and 100 percent humidity on any given day. Is that really realistic?
BLAKEY: Well, and, you know, I have to admit. I mean, here I am, CNN medical correspondent. I went to play tennis one day this week after work. It was evening, it was dusk. That's the time when you're supposed to, you know, have on those long sleeves, you're supposed to wear repellent with at least 35 percent DEET if you're an adult. And, I mean, you know, I got out to the tennis court and realized I didn't put my repellent on.
So in my mind, one of the most difficult tasks here is changing behavior, because yes, you know, it is hot. Who wants to wear long sleeves? You know, who wants to be bothered with smelly repellent?
(LAUGHTER)
And when you, again, look at the idea...
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
BLAKEY: No, we cannot change the smell of the repellent.
BASH: Suzanne, what about the president being so physically fit, is he wearing DEET repellent as he's playing golf today, I wonder?
(LAUGHTER)
MALVEAUX: You know, I have no idea.
(LAUGHTER)
I don't know whether or not he's wearing DEET.
KARP: Maybe you can get back to us on that one.
MALVEAUX: Oh, OK, sure.
(LAUGHTER)
BLAKEY: Somehow I suspect he probably is, because there are enough people around him to make sure that he's as healthy as a horse, which obviously he is these days.
ROMANS: Right. One Secret Service agent just with the can of Off, right?
(LAUGHTER)
BLAKEY: Yes.
KARP: I have a question. Down the road, say we didn't do anything about this. How serious could it become?
BLAKEY: Well, that really depends on the mosquito population. And, you know, as long as we have these larvacide programs under way and spraying issues -- even though spraying doesn't work as well in urban areas, because there are people with respiratory issues that could be affected -- but as long as we keep these programs, you know, consistent -- and that's the one thing that West Nile has done. It's made all the public health officials say, "You know, we've got to make sure that we've got these constant communications between the state and local governments and the CDC, so that we all know what's going on so that we can track."
But it's an emerging disease, which sounds scary to a lot of people, but in reality, again, the perspective, most of the mosquitoes that are out there that are infecting people, people don't even know they have symptoms. It's a very mild case. I mean, again, perspective is necessary.
ROMANS: Any projections on how quickly it can continue to move throughout the country, since it's been just three years and now we're talking about Texas and Louisiana and Illinois, as well, I think?
BLAKEY: Yes, I know CDC officials are always hesitant to try and nail that kind of stuff down, because they don't want to be in the projection business, you know. They want to be in the data business and have hard, firm science. But obviously, it's moving to the west.
BLAKEY: And there were reports that they had chickens. These are, you know, sentinel animals. If you find that chickens have in fact been bitten by mosquitoes that are carrying the virus, then there's a good sense that that will continue. But we haven't seen that just yet.
Out in California, there was a case this week of a man who was infected apparently in Louisiana. And this just shows you a little bit about the CDC. When they track these cases, they depend on where the person is a resident. So if you're a resident in the state of Louisiana and you're infected in Louisiana, you're counted. But if you, for some reason, are traveling to another city, you're not counted.
So it's kind of an interesting way that they put this together, because, say there were people from France who traveled to Louisiana. They would not be counted among the U.S. cases because they're not residents of any U.S. state.
ROMANS: Interesting. OK, Rea.
BLAKEY: CDC insight.
(LAUGHTER)
ROMANS: Now, figuring out the future of West Nile disease may be as tricky as forecasting the U.S. economy. The Bush administration keeps painting a rosy picture. We'll put in our two cents in a moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: I believe that -- I'm an optimist, I'm an optimist about our economy. And I should be. The fundamentals are strong. Interest rates are low. Monetary policy is sound.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROMANS: A New Yorker Magazine cartoon speaks for many consumers and investors. Two men in a bar are studying a falling stock market. Says one, "My broker jumped out a window, but that's small consolation."
BLAKEY: Hear, hear. (LAUGHTER)
ROMANS: Welcome back to CNN's SATURDAY EDITION. I'm financial news correspondent Christine Romans.
Some people do blame their stockbrokers, some people blame corrupt businessmen, and some blame the government. And lots of people will be ready to blame the Federal Reserve when Alan Greenspan calls them in to decide whether interest rates are too low or too high.
But no doubt about it, even more crazy business news this week. You know, who thought that accounting and financial reporting were boring or dull. They're not. It's almost as crime beat these days.
BLAKEY: Yes.
ROMANS: And it's really -- WorldCom for example, this week, said you know, "Remember we told you it was about $3.5 billion, our accounting errors? It's going to be really more than $7 billion." Seven billion dollars, unbelievable.
Also, you've got Martha Stewart still in the headlines. Folks are talking about perhaps a congressional subpoena about her role in selling some ImClone shares.
A variety of different things going on out there continuing to erode investor confidence in the corporate suite.
Surprisingly though, the stock market actually closed higher. One reason because Congress is in recess, and some folks think that means there can be no -- they can't do any harm from Washington, so the market can go higher.
(CROSSTALK)
BLAKEY: But historically, that is true, isn't it?
MALVEAUX: They can do no wrong at home.
(LAUGHTER)
BASH: Exactly. Well, the Martha Stewart thing is really interesting, particularly since it seemed as though, at the beginning when we first started hearing about the Martha Stewart controversy, that congressional investigators were a little reluctant to really press hard for her to come in and talk, that perhaps she was kind of secondary and that clearly it would be a big spectacle.
BLAKEY: Well, she was busy cutting cabbage.
(LAUGHTER)
That had to be done.
BASH: She was very busy. BLAKEY: Yes.
BASH: And Billy Tauzin was on her show actually, a long time ago, who is the Republican head of the committee that's investigating.
But now it seems as if they're putting the pressure on. They are threatening subpoena. They're saying, "If you don't cooperate, you're come up here." And, boy, would that be a spectacle, Martha Stewart on Capitol Hill.
ROMANS: It's interesting too because she was a stockbroker before she was a home, you know, home decorating diva. So some folks are saying she should be held to a bit of a higher standard because she is the CEO of a public company and because she was a stockbroker and she should know what the rules are. So that's sort of continuing to build.
Of course the New York tabloids having a field day with it. There's a Martha meter in the "New York Post" every day: Is it a good thing or a bad thing, the Martha news?
BLAKEY: They sort of love to hate her in New York, don't they?
ROMANS: They really do, for some reason. Some people like to just, you know, sort of hang the corporate malfeasance role on her when, you know, maybe it's not deserved. It still remains to be seen. You know, people just love to hate Martha for some reason.
KARP: Do you think -- remember we saw pictures a couple of weeks ago with the guys in handcuffs. Will we see Martha Stewart in handcuffs, you know, making the perp walk?
MALVEAUX: That's...
BLAKEY: Go on, Suzanne.
MALVEAUX: ... that's exactly right, because I remember it was just last week when everybody was calling saying, "Look, you've got this corporate responsibility bill, but you know, until you put it into action and see these major CEOs in handcuffs, you know, what does it mean? Does it mean very much at all?"
And yes, that's a very good question, are we going to see Martha Stewart, you know, in handcuffs?
ROMANS: Keep in mind, the shares she sold, some 4,000 ImClone shares, it's not very much. It was worth come $200,000. She has now, in market value...
BLAKEY: That's a lot to me.
ROMANS: ... lost $385 million in her market value.
So, well, yes, I guess it would mean a lot to me too.
(LAUGHTER) OK, $200,000 is a lot of money.
BLAKEY: But you know, I have a question, this whole corporate responsibility business. We see these CEOs. Next week they're going to have to sign these documents.
ROMANS: Yes, August 14.
BLAKEY: Are these people really going to be held responsible? Or they're going to find some other fall guy, aren't they?
ROMANS: I spoke to a lawyer this week who told me that they could drive a truck through some of the holes in the SEC document, but that it was very symbolic, you know, to have a CEO and a chief financial officer of a company sign on the dotted line and say, you know, "To the best of my knowledge, what I'm giving you is a fair assessment of what's going on in my company."
One thing I've been hearing, though, is that the senior vice presidents of all of the business lines of these companies are signing even more powerful documents, so that if something does go wrong, there's a chain of command along the way.
So good lawyers, I'm sure, could find a way to protect their clients after having signed those statements. But it is -- symbolically, it does say that, you know, corporate executives are taking a look.
And listen, right now as we speak, I'm sure there are corporate executives and, you know, many, many lawyers hunkered down trying to make it to that deadline and figure out if indeed they can sign those papers.
BASH: You know, you mentioned the fact that Congress is out, the fact that Congress is out, and that has something to do, perhaps...
(LAUGHTER)
... with the market going up. But, you know, one thing that Democrats are really starting to seize on and really trying to attack the president for, is trying to talk up and talk down the markets.
I'm just wondering, how much of an affect does that really have? You know, they accuse the president of, earlier, when the economy was really good, of trying to talk it down. Now that it's down -- Suzanne, you can certainly attest to this -- all he does is talk it up.
BLAKEY: Like he did today.
BASH: But, Christine, how much of an impact does this have, really, on Wall Street?
ROMANS: Well, it's interesting because some of the real old- timers on Wall Street were saying, "Oh, he's such a rookie. Doesn't he know the president shouldn't be talking during market hours?" Lately, I haven't seen him really -- I mean, I guess yesterday Cheney and Bush were both speaking at exactly the same time.
BLAKEY: Saying exactly the same words.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
MALVEAUX: It's one thing the administration really hates, though, is when they see those tickers and they actually are measuring what the stock market is doing as the president is talking, whether or not it goes up or down.
One thing the aids are really concerned about -- and you mentioned before about having to certify their books, their accounting this week -- is that, you know, what if we do see a couple more bombs being dropped here? How is that going to impact the stock market? I mean, that is a real concern that, yes, we'll sign on off on these things, they'll have lawyers involved, but what if we do find out about another WorldCom or Enron that happens in the next couple of weeks? What is that going to mean? It's really going to be out of the administration's hands altogether.
ROMANS: Well, I talked to a former SEC chairman this week who was telling me that he thinks the big ones are out there, Enron, WorldCom, Qwest. The big issues are probably behind us. There could be some more, but another reason why the market probably did a little bit better is because it just really can't get much worse. We're going to be sort of tweaking...
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
ROMANS: Right, right, right. Yes, but at this point, it's irrelevant, you know, I mean, even if it was $10 billion...
BLAKEY: Yes, it's gone, gone.
BASH: It's gone.
ROMANS: One thing I asked some stock market strategists, you know, what do people like us take from all of this? And over -- one guy told me, he's like, "Just don't buy stock in companies that are fakes and frauds." And I said, well...
BLAKEY: And how do you determine that?
ROMANS: Well, when somebody figures that out, please let me know as well.
(LAUGHTER)
BLAKEY: We'll be looking for that report, Christine.
ROMANS: OK, right. I'll get it right to you.
(LAUGHTER)
KARP: We're going to leave Wall Street behind for a little while, but we're not going to leave scandal behind. From big leagues to little league, baseball was trying to clean up it's image this week. We'll call them as we see them. Plus, a news alert, straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
KARP: Barry Bonds' 600th home run could have been the baseball story of the week, but not this week. Owners and players have been trying to hammer out a new labor agreement. And the union, for the first time, agreed to the idea of unannounced steroids testing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JASON GIAMBI, BASEBALL PLAYER: The only thing we're disappointed in is that we have to prove our innocence because of two guys are running around saying, "There's a problem with baseball," no, I don't think there really is a problem. But you know, if it's going (ph) to (ph) be (ph) in the agreement, we're all for it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KARP: Now, on the one hand, this was hailed as an historic moment, because in the entire history of the union they had never agreed to any form of unannounced testing. But the cynics out there are saying that the union's proposal -- and it's a long way from actually going into effect, they have to bargain on this -- doesn't go far enough. And it was just a public relations ploy, because they have a big meeting on Monday where they could decide to set a strike date.
So I'm going to use you guys as my public. How did you...
BASH: Well, I have a question for you. They're testing, and let's say they test for steroids, then what? Have they decided what exactly the punishment will be if they come up positive?
KARP: That's a huge question because, right now, the proposal that the union unveiled on Wednesday doesn't directly address the idea of discipline. It says there will be this just cause standard, but the owners' proposal has specific fines, suspensions that they've gone over.
And again, this is all something that's being worked out in the context of trying to come up with this new labor agreement.
And you see Barry Bonds hitting that 600th home run, on the one hand, oh, it's fabulous, it's great. He joins this group, Babe Ruth, Willie Mays, Hank Aaron. On the other hand, 600 home runs, people have to be out there wondering, "Well, how did he do it? How is everybody else doing it?"
BLAKEY: Right.
KARP: So baseball is entering a critical time period right now.
ROMANS: How prevalent do they think it is? I mean, I've been reading a lot in the tabloids about it, but you know, is it a real problem, or is it just a sort of manufactured, you know, like PR hype problem?
KARP: Well, nobody can say specifically because they've never tested.
And the union proposal wants to have their initial period to try to find out how serious this problem is and then go on from there.
They've picked the number at 5 percent, if in the first two years start of testing in 2003, if they can find in the two-year period that 5 percent come back positive, then they would go on and continue with the testing.
But you heard Jason Giambi, one of the major figures in baseball, say it's really because these two guys, Ken Kimminedi (ph) and Jose Conseco, came out and said, "It is a huge problem, that 50 to 85 percent of major leaguers are doing it."
Do you look at baseball differently now because of this?
BLAKEY: Well, I have to admit, I've not been a huge baseball fan all of my life so...
(LAUGHTER)
BASH: Well, we have. We're all huge fans here.
(LAUGHTER)
BLAKEY: But I mean, seriously...
MALVEAUX: I'm with you. I'm with you.
(LAUGHTER)
BLAKEY: You know, you see these guys who have, you know, these muscles that are the size of your head on their arms...
(LAUGHTER)
... and you've got to wonder that there's some kind of enhancement going on there. And plus, the competition, and look at the salaries these guys are making. And let's face it, there are other things out there that people are drawn to.
So baseball needs something. So if they have you know, a 600 hitter, then obviously that's a pull. But I also think there's something else going on there.
ROMANS: But you would think that -- look, the names that you just ticked off, Babe Ruth, Willie Mays, that was -- even I know who they are.
(LAUGHTER)
And these are huge, huge names.
You would think that Barry Bonds doing what he did last night, would be such a draw and really draw the fans in, that it would make everybody in baseball really reluctant to go on strike and lose what momentum they have right now.
KARP: Well, I think that there is definitely reluctance on both sides. Nobody -- and I believe them when they say this -- says that they want a strike to occur.
But Barry Bonds is an interesting case, because he had some really incendiary comments that he made a couple of months ago when, again, there was a big union meeting and they were wondering if a strike date was going to be set.
KARP: And he said, "Well, you know, even if there is a strike, the fans will come back. They always come back." I agree, but I don't think you can say it.
BLAKEY: Well, I mean, I think if you say, you're sort of...
MALVEAUX: That's a lot of confidence.
(LAUGHTER)
BLAKEY: Yes, exactly. You know, there's a lot of bravado there.
MALVEAUX: Especially since some people really, they question whether or not, OK, is this for real? As you said before, with the steroid use, I mean, a lot of skeptics are saying, is this drugs or is it real? You know, are we really seeing better athletes, better players out there? I mean, people really just don't know.
KARP: Suzanne, credibility is an issue, obviously, in baseball, but I want to talk now about the figure-skating controversy that erupted last week and is continuing.
You guys have all heard about the fact there is a reputed mobster who allegedly fixed the results of the Salt Lake City pairs and ice dancing figure-skating results. And this story is the kind of thing that, had it come out as a movie, you might have not been able to believe it, because...
(CROSSTALK)
KARP: Too far-fetched. How could this really happen? Figure skating now, are we ever going to be able to watch it in the same way?
BLAKEY: Tonya Harding was the best thing that ever happened to figure skating.
(LAUGHTER) KARP: But it's true.
BLAKEY: OK? That's the truth.
KARP: And is this a good thing for figure skating?
ROMANS: Because it drew people in. In a weird way, you kind of think about figure skating, you say, Oh, well, this is interesting. I mean, maybe there's more -- it's a beautiful sport to watch, but there's clearly a drama here, you know, scandalous or not.
KARP: And drama draws people in.
The other side, the flip side of that is, is there going to be such a credibility issue that people aren't going to want to watch it, just like people don't want to watch wrestling, in terms of trying to figure out who the winner and loser is.
BLAKEY: Is there a credibility issue with wrestling?
KARP: No, of course not.
(LAUGHTER)
KARP: You know, are people not going to want to even put their kids...
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
KARP: Are they not going to want to send their kids to the ice rink to learn how to become figure skaters because they don't believe in trust in that sport?
BLAKEY: You know, I just think it's one of those issues that's representative of our society. You know, I mean, there's a certain amount of people that are jaded about just about everything, and there's a certain amount of corruption in just about everything, i.e., corporate America. And I think that's just representative of that. I mean, you know, we're all somewhat appalled that, you know, it could happen on the level of the Olympics, but why would they be immune?
ROMANS: Interesting, the thread that we've woven through the subjects today.
BASH: Absolutely. And we'll continue that thread because we're going from one national sport to another, and that's partisan politics. And politics takes on a special edge when Democrats have to fight each other. More when CNN's SATURDAY EDITION continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BASH: Welcome back to SATURDAY EDITION. I'm Capitol Hill producer Dana Bash. The political battle in Michigan was one of the hot contests of campaign 2002, two members of Congress fighting for one seat, thanks to redistricting. Democrat against Democrat, age against youth, man against woman, old school versus new.
And 76-year-old John Dingell won on Tuesday, maintaining a political dynasty began by his father in 1932. He defeated Congresswoman Lynne Rivers, fellow Democratic incumbent, the choice of women's groups and gun-control advocates. In the end, Dingell took 59 percent of the vote and faces an easy walk in the November election.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JOHN DINGELL (D), MICHIGAN: I congratulated Lynne on a fine campaign. And she did make us work, I want to tell you. Primaries this year were extremely difficult.
I want to tell you that I'm grateful and proud of the support that's been given to me by so many good friends.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: I was up in Michigan this week covering this race, and it was a real old-fashioned political drama. On the one hand, you had the old bull, John Dingell. He's the longest serving House member, been in Congress for 47 years. He appeals to the old style Democratic base, the blue collar workers. He's pro-gun, pro-union.
On the other hand, you had Lynne Rivers. Young woman, she was -- when she was born, he was already in Congress. She was really appealing to what she called the new Democratic voter. She appealed to issues that women believed in. She was a teenage mother. Worked herself through college, worked herself through law school. Coming into the election day, the polls showed that they were neck and neck. But in the end, he had an 18-point advantage.
KARP: How did he pull that off?
BASH: I'm glad you asked that question, and it is old-stuff politics. It was grassroots, get out the vote. It's almost cliche, you know, the most important poll is the one on election day. But in this case, it really made the difference. He got the unions out for him. All of the people who he had worked with for years and years and years came out for him, and it just showed that he had friends in the old machine.
KARP: She obviously knew she was up against, you know, somebody huge and it was going to be a really tough fight. Could she have changed districts? I know this was because of redistricting. Could she have gone to another one?
BASH: That's a very good question, because there were -- the answer is, yes, she could have. But the thing is that the way they drew the districts, her hometown, which is Ann Arbor, Michigan, the home of University of Michigan, was in this new district that had once been held by, also, by John Dingell. She could have bowed out. And there are a lot of redistricting cases all over the country where incumbent was pitted against incumbent, and one bowed out. And she decided she didn't want to. I mean, her whole kind of persona is, competition, coming from behind, being the underdog, and she really wanted to fight this one.
MALVEAUX: I really wonder if it would have even mattered if she went to another district, because it seems to me is that this is kind of a reflection of what President Clinton did when he really moved the whole party further to the right, and that's really been kind of the popular Democrat over here. And you've had kind of the more leftist Democrat who really doesn't have as much support.
I mean, I think she's really kind of a unique person who was running in that position, where most Democrats, I think, are more aligned along with that Dingell represents, what Clinton represented, because he moved them forward.
BASH: Well, I think that this particular district is really unique because it was really split among the liberals, really liberal set of people in Ann Arbor -- I mean, just talking to them, they all really didn't like John Dingell because he's a Democrat, but he was very much -- he used to serve on the NRA board, he is very much in favor of gun rights, he'll call it. And on the other hand, you have the outskirts of Detroit, where there are a lot of blue collar workers who are kind of more of the traditional, more conservative Democrats, which really made the district very, very quite interesting.
ROMANS: Where was her money from? Where was her big support base?
BASH: That was another interesting part of this race, which is that the party, obviously, couldn't put any money into it, because it was Democrats against Democrats. So each candidate really had to raise their own money, but the interesting part of it was the impact from outside groups.
Lynne Rivers had money coming in from Sarah Brady and the gun- control groups, and she also had money coming in from Emily's List, which is an organization, very powerful organization, which looks to elect women who are abortion-rights women. And they have been kind of -- this has brought up all kinds of questions about Emily's List and their mandate, which is to elect women who are for abortion rights. And even if it means they are trying to elect them at the expense of men, because they have actually had some losses this year in races, a lot of losses, to men who are on their side in terms of abortion.
Yes, so my question for you is, do you think that it's kind of appropriate for these groups to be pushing for a woman instead of a man just because they're a woman, but they have the same views on the issues?
KARP: Why can't they wait until the primary's over and then get behind the one that emerges? But I guess their platform is women first and then going from there. ROMANS: But I think they're trying to get people through the whole process. You know, if you can support somebody from the very beginning of the political process, and you have more women out there who are candidates in general.
BASH: And that's what their whole existence is, is to get them out early.
But you know, one Democratic woman who they actually did well for, who won, is another woman in Michigan, and that's Jennifer Granholm. She beat out two challengers in the Democratic primary for governor. And she will be the gubernatorial candidate from Michigan, the first Democrat to head a ticket in Michigan, and this is really kind of -- one of the big points of talk during this election season, which is that there are about a dozen female candidates on the ticket for governor.
And there are some people out there who think that -- yes, we'll weave this thread in, again -- that all the corporate scandals, the pictures and images of men who are kind of the CEOs of these companies have left a bad taste in their mouth and that they want maybe a woman to be essentially the CEO of their state, the governor, and that might be why this might be another year of the woman, like we had in '92.
What do you all think about that?
Go ahead.
MALVEAUX: Coming up next -- I have to interrupt. Coming up, we'll talk about Vice President Dick Cheney and his health. He says he is ready for another four years.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I suppose two people are going to figure very prominently in that decision. One is, obviously, the president, and the other is my wife. If the president is willing and my wife approves and if the doctors say it's OK, then I'd be happy to serve a second term. And I emphasize again, that's the president's call. Not mine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: Vice President Dick Cheney saying he is a contender. Welcome back to SATURDAY EDITION. I'm Suzanne Malveaux.
That was the vice president earlier in the week being asked in San Francisco whether or not he was ready, perhaps, for a second term, another four years. Essentially how was his health, meaning his heart. He said it's up to two people, Mr. Bush and, of course, his wife. He joked a little and said he's got doctors following him everywhere. When he's in the elevator, somebody with a black bag is always behind him. But you know, a really good sense of humor about it. But this is a man who's 61 years old. He's had four heart attacks, he has a pacemaker.
It's really odd, perhaps even unusual, that we're talking about the vice president's health. Usually you talk about the president's health. It's somewhat of a reverse here. And I have to tell you, after the president had his annual physical, three hours and the results came out, the medical records, we were all really just stunned, and there were a lot men who were quite jealous, a lot of the crew members who were quite jealous.
BASH: Women, too!
MALVEAUX: When they realized that the president here, he is 56 years old and he is in the top 1 percent of men his age for cardiovascular and aerobic fitness. I mean, it's unbelievable. And his routine really is amazing. I mean, we've seen some of it just in the last few days in Crawford, where he's running three miles on a regular basis, four times a week, and get his, his time is 6:45, seven 15-minute miles. I mean, it is really unbelievable.
And I have a story to tell you, actually. A lot of the Secret Service guys cannot keep up with him. They cannot run with him in the morning. They have actually had to recruit runners from the Secret Service for his detail. There are about seven of them, we're told, who can actually keep up with the president, and even then, they don't run the full three miles. They're actually stationed several hundred yards apart. So it's kind of like a relay. One will pick up, and he'll run past him. Another will pick up and another will pick up so that they get through all three miles. But, really, it was fascinating to read the records and to just hear about his lifestyle and how well he takes care of himself.
KARP: I don't know how that makes me feel, though! If he was going to have to race Saddam Hussein, and that would determine whether we'd have world peace, I might feel better. But I don't know if it's a bad time. He's gotten more physically fit since he took office.
BASH: Well, you know, that's what Democrats love to say, well -- they'll say, well, maybe if he weren't in the gym, you know, three hours a day, maybe we wouldn't have this bad economy. You know, anything that they can seize on, they do. But it is pretty respectable, the kind of shape that he's in. Suzanne, how much time is he spending working out and keeping up this physique?
MALVEAUX: Well, we're told at least he does these three-milers, really, on a regular basis. He also does cross-training as well, he lifts weights. It really is a part of his life.
And another aspect, if you look at his history, his medical history, his records show that he does not drink alcohol, that occasionally he smokes a cigar. He takes vitamins, one aspirin a day, but his health problems are really minor. We're talking old sports injuries. And you may remember -- recall, that he had a colonoscopy in June, which was completely normal. There were other times, he had benign polyps that had been removed in the past, some skin lesions, benign skin lesions that have been removed, and of course, there was the infamous pretzel incident, that he choked on a pretzel, passed out and bumped his head. But really, beyond that, his health is really in excellent and superior condition.
BASH: You know, Suzanne, it's really kind of sport in this town to try to game out -- is -- or was, at least -- is Dick Cheney going to be on the ticket in 2004? If not, who's going to be there? There all these names that kind of float around and everybody loves to talk about it. It's great cocktail fodder.
But my question for you is, was Dick Cheney kind of trying to answer those people to say, hey, I'm here, I'm ready and I want it? Was he sending a message to George Bush? Was he putting him kind of in a box, saying I'm ready to do it, and you better pick me, because I'm sitting here and I've done a lot for you, and don't dump me?
ROMANS: Or was he preparing his wife for the eventuality?
BASH: What are you hearing about that?
MALVEAUX: You know, I don't get the sense that he was doing that, that he was trying to kind of set up Bush in that situation. I think he was really put on the spot. I think it's a question that a lot of people have is, how is your health? How are you coming along? And are you going to be able -- if in fact, Bush is president for another four years, whether or not you will be able to be his running mate, to be the vice president?
I think it was his way of trying to answer the question as best he could without getting into a lot of detail. And of course, using a sense of humor about it, because it is a very tough and personal subject to talk about your health. Saying that, yes, you know, I have doctors who are monitoring me 24-7. Don't worry, I think he was trying to put the American people at ease, that he's capable of doing the job.
KARP: I think -- sorry to interrupt. One thing that he didn't mention on that long list of people, those people that are doing the Halliburton investigation and what they find out could also go a long way, I think, toward determining how attractive he is as a running mate for George Bush in the coming years. ROMANS: You can find out all about that on the Halliburton Web site.
BLAKEY: Yeah, well, that's certainly the reference point...
MALVEAUX: That's an excellent point, though, that you make, that there is a whole political liability, political cost as well. What does he bring to the table? And whether or not it is going to be worth it if, in fact, you know, there's a credibility issue or his reputation is damaged. I think that's just something that we're going to have to wait and see.
BASH: It's amazing how things change. It was those qualifications that really drew him in, and that was part of the reason why he was chosen. It was because he was a CEO, because he had all this phenomenal experience, and it's amazing how in just such a short time, things seemed to have changed, just in terms of perception of Cheney and his need in the White House.
Suzanne, are you sensing that?
MALVEAUX: Absolutely right. I mean, certainly. Certainly. I mean, that's absolutely right. I mean, that the American people see this kind of a scandal-ridden environment now, and people are looking again at business leaders and CEOs in a different way. And yes, I mean, it's something that they have to overcome and it's something that they recognize, that there is at least a perception of a close link between Republicans and the business community.
ROMANS: All right. That's SATURDAY EDITION. My thanks to my CNN colleagues, and thank you for watching.
Up next, CNN's "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS" on golf superstar Tiger Woods.
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