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On the Story

Stumbles, Successes of Sniper Investigation; Senator Wellstone Dies 11 Days Before Election; Is Anyone Watching World Series?

Aired October 26, 2002 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to CNN's SATURDAY EDITION, where our journalists have the inside scoop on the stories we covered this week. I'm Kelli Arena.
We start with the sniper story, the three-week manhunt.

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Jeanne Meserve.

The stumbles and successes of such a large investigation into the shootings and the suspects.

KATE SNOW, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Kate Snow.

A sad story this week, the death of Senator Paul Wellstone, Democrat of Minnesota, just 11 days before the election.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And I'm Suzanne Malveaux.

We'll be talking about all these angles on the sniper story and the death of Senator Wellstone. We'll have the president's weekly radio address at the end of the hour. CNN Capitol Hill producer Dana Bash will be live from Minnesota and CNN sports correspondent Josie Karp joins us later from Anaheim, California, where she's covering game six of the Angels-Giants World Series.

But first, a check on the headlines from Atlanta.

(NEWSBREAK)

MESERVE: The sniper attacks killed 10 people, wounded three and frightened millions. A law enforcement army on the ground, in the air and laboratories, on the phones and on television, fought against what turned out to be two men with a deadly, still-unknown grudge. After 21 days, a flukey ending to a killing spree, with the suspects found asleep in their car.

MALVEAUX: I have not heard anything about motive. I mean, we talk about these guys are homeless or they're not doing well or one is a vagabond, his family is broken, but nothing that remotely comes close to explaining why did these guys do this. Do you have any idea?

MESERVE: Well, that's the question we don't have the answer to, unfortunately. A lot of speculation about it, what it might be about, but these men are not talking to the authorities. One of the theories that Kelli (ph) and I have been knock around with some other people is the possibility that maybe money was important to this. We know in that note found in Ashland they did make a demand for $10 million. They also said they had been trying to reach police prior to that. Is it possible they were trying to call up and make a money demand? Who knows? Or was the money a late add- on?

MALVEAUX: But what is that, what is the MO? I mean, are these guys spree killers? Did they just, you know, for fun decide to kill people? Was it a money thing? I mean, I...

ARENA: Nobody knows. Nobody knows. They're not talking. In fact, the younger Malvo actually tried to escape when he was in the interrogation room. Investigators walked out of the room, he wiggled out of his handcuffs, got on a chair, climbed into the ceiling ducts in the room. Investigators heard a crash, they came in, looked around, where was he. He was in the ceiling, and they pulled him out. So not exactly cooperating, to say the least.

But they do think -- I mean, there is now, little by little, a consensus building that all of the profiling and the psychobabble and thinking about a larger motive may not have been it at all. It may have been simply extortion. "We want $10 million, hand it over."

MESERVE: Well, so many of the things that were theorized about this case turned out to be wrong or appear to be wrong. I mean, one of them was this whole idea that they were watching us, that they were playing off the media and that when we said something or the police said something, they would immediately do something that was reactive.

SNOW: They discount that now?

MESERVE: Well, look, these guys were sleeping in cars a good part of the time. They weren't anyplace where they could watch cable television.

And in the end, look at that last night. Their names were out there, a description of the car, the license plate, were all out there in the public media, and they were asleep in a rest stop. I mean, clearly, they were not watching and didn't know that people were looking for them specifically or they would have been in some place less conspicuous, and they probably would've changed the plates on their car, at least.

SNOW: I'd like to ask both Jeanne and Kelli, because you guys have been so into this story and I have not. And as somebody on the outside, I just wonder how much coordination really was there among agencies? And then yesterday -- I know, it's the big question.

And then yesterday there was this -- the local attorney came out for the county, saying, "We're charging them." And it seemed like Justice officials were like, "Whoa, that's not what we wanted to do."

Is there dissension?

ARENA: Well, we can start with the investigation.

MESERVE: It's a mixed picture. I mean, I am told things worked much better here than they ever have in any other investigation of this sort.

ARENA: And we did see an unbelievable level of cooperation on some points.

MESERVE: That's right. I mean, lessons were learned in the aftermath of 9/11. And agencies have learned how to share information a little bit better, and they've learned how to work with the local jurisdictions a little bit better. And the fact that they didn't come in, the federal agencies didn't come in and say, "It's our investigation," helped smooth things over...

ARENA: Right.

MESERVE: ... to a considerable degree. But there definitely were some tensions.

ARENA: There were situations where...

MESERVE: You could definitely pick it up between the Maryland task force and the people in Virginia, where you had people up in Maryland referring to the Virginians as being "south of the border," and you had people down there feeling that people in Maryland were trying to make them look like yokels.

ARENA: Yokels, exactly.

SNOW: And yet they found these guys. Was it just -- was it accidental with all of this information coming in...

ARENA: No. No, no, no.

MESERVE: No.

ARENA: It wasn't. But it was -- at least what got things going was an initial tip. And they believe that was an initial tip from Malvo himself calling in and saying, "Hey, I've killed before. Check out Montgomery. You'll see." They thought at the time, of course, he was talking about Montgomery County, where so many of the killings had taken place. And then they got information from a clergyman who said, "Well, I got, you know, a phone call from someone talking about Montgomery, Alabama." And then boom, from there, they realized there was a shooting. They pick up a print. They trace it back to Malvo.

MALVEAUX: What was it like on Thursday, being there on the scene, Jeanne? I mean, that must have been absolutely amazing when all of these details started coming together fast and furious and you had something to go with.

MESERVE: Well, on Wednesday night, when the pieces really clearly something was afoot, I was here with Kelli, the two of us were working the phone here.

(LAUGHTER)

But very early Thursday morning...

ARENA: (OFF-MIKE)

(LAUGHTER)

MESERVE: But very early Thursday morning, when I reappeared back in Rockville, it was just a totally different atmosphere. There was very heavy security around the police headquarters up there because they were afraid at some point that these people might come by there and take a shot or two.

MALVEAUX: Absolutely.

MESERVE: But you walked in that morning, and all of a sudden the guys who were handling security had big grins on their faces and were so much more relaxed and were willing to really joke around with you as you walked in. I mean, the tension had obviously dissipated to such a great degree.

SNOW: It's like that all over the city now, too.

MESERVE: That's right.

SNOW: I mean, you can sense it, you know, among the -- you know, the children, they can finally go outside again.

MALVEAUX: I have to say too, though, it took for a while for me and I think a lot of other people too, who just had some doubts in the beginning, is this really over? Is there a third person who's out there? Were they working with other people?

I mean, I really get a sense that it was hard to believe. I mean, I don't mean to sound, you know, anti-climatic in a way that is critical of this, but there was a sense...

ARENA: There's a material witness warrant out for one other individual in relation to this, so that is a dangling, you know, part of the story.

(CROSSTALK)

MALVEAUX: And there's a sense that it wasn't over. There was a concern about that.

MESERVE: Although I did talk to one official yesterday who said, "Every indication is no accomplices to this."

ARENA: Right.

SNOW: Of course these guys haven't been convicted yet. We should probably keep saying that too.

We're going to talk a lot more about the sniper investigation for much of this hour. But ahead, another big story this week, a very sad story, the death of Senator Paul Wellstone, Democrat of Minnesota, with our Capital Hill producer, Dana Bash, in Minneapolis. We'll talk about the Senator, his impact on government and politics and the upcoming election when CNN's SATURDAY EDITION comes right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Paul Wellstone was a man of deep convictions. He was a plain-spoken fellow who did his best for his state and for his country. May the good Lord bless those who grieve.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SNOW: President Bush speaking yesterday after Senator Paul Wellstone, Democrat of Minnesota, was killed, along with his wife, daughter, staff members and two pilots in a light plane crash.

Joining us from St. Paul, outside the Paul Wellstone campaign, now is CNN's Capitol Hill producer Dana Bash. She's going to join us for this segment.

Dana, I was on the Hill yesterday. I can't remember a day like yesterday. I mean, the hallways, people were just walking through the halls with tears in their eyes and the sadness was palpable. I'm sure it's the same where you are.

DANA BASH, CNN CAPITOL HILL PRODUCER: Yes, it really is. It's remarkable. I mean, as soon as we -- well, I'll tell you, first of all, where I am now. I'm standing here in front of Wellstone campaign headquarters where you can see behind me, there's kind of a makeshift memorial that's up here. People are coming, they're putting flowers up, cards, notes, pictures. And people have -- there's kind of been a steady stream of people, even really early in the morning here, people coming to pay their respects to the senator and his family and the others who died.

Last night when we came in, we went immediately to the capital in St. Paul where there was kind of an impromptu candlelight vigil. And there were so many people there. I would say well over 1,000 people there, singing songs, lighting candles, hugging, crying. It was really, really emotional.

And there was even -- they even drove up Senator Wellstone's famous green bus, this bus that he used in his 1990 campaign, the first year that he ran for office when he was just a political science professor at Carlton College here in Minnesota. And he won -- he was the underdog and he won that year. And that green bus came to symbolize kind of his passion and his underdog quality.

You know, there were a lot of his staffers there, we were talking to them, and they were -- you can imagine how incredibly overcome with emotion they were. But they were just kind of telling stories about the senator, telling stories about the family, telling stories particularly about the senator and his wife and about their incredible partnership. They were married for 39 years. They were saying that they met when they were just 17 years old, married when they were 19. And they said that the two of them were really amazing. I

SNOW: They were incredible. And they were known around Capitol Hill. You know, she was a major advocate on domestic violence and some other women's issues. She was, in her own right, a real activist.

He, of course, this incredible activist Democrat, liberal with a capital "L," kind of a different kind of character on Capitol Hill. You know, there are a lot of senators, there are a lot of Congress people who are often accused of, you know, taking a vote, you know, voting a certain way because they feel they have to or because there's pressure from back home or an interest group. Paul Wellstone wasn't that kind of senator, didn't have that reputation. I mean, he had the reputation of just -- "conviction" is the word you keep hearing. He has this reputation of always voting his conscience, even if it went against his own party. He was often that one vote, you know, when it was a vote 99 to 1.

ARENA: Yes, well, you know, I heard the word "decent" repeatedly yesterday from so many of his colleagues, which is -- you know, you can look at that both ways. Wonderful testament to him, but you have to wonder if that is something that's striking people about the state of Washington.

MESERVE: Dana, I remember when we were covering the Bradley campaign, you and I, that he would appear with Bill Bradley. And you got a real sense that this not only was somebody who was politically distinctive but who had a real personality. Is that right?

BASH: A real personality. He loved it, he loved being out there. He would jump around. Remember, he would say, "We're going to fight, we're going to win, we're going to win," and he would kind of get a kick out of his own animation, so to speak.

But just on the question of him kind of doing his own thing, you know, one thing, of course, that I was immediately thinking of -- you have to remember, not only is this an incredible tragedy, but it comes at a time when there's a huge -- he was up for reelection here. And it's a hugely contested Senate race out here in Minnesota. He was neck and neck in the polls. And Senator Wellstone, you know, every vote that he was making back in the Senate really counted.

And in particular, this last vote that he took on the Iraq resolution was one that was really, really, really tough for him to do, because he knew that if he voted against the president, President Bush is very popular here in Minnesota and he knew that if he voted against the president, he could get in trouble back here. But he and I actually talked about it, we had a long talk about it in the halls of the Senate just a couple weeks before he took the vote, and he said to me, you know, "I decided that I just have to go with my conscience," and he said he didn't have any choice. He didn't have any choice.

SNOW: And you know what happened to his numbers? His numbers actually went up.

BASH: Right. And he said, "I wouldn't be able to live with myself," he said to me, "if I didn't follow my heart." He said, "I love being in the Senate, I love being a senator. But if they decide that they don't want me because of this vote, so be it." He said, "I'll have something to talk about when I go back to being a political science professor."

MALVEAUX: And you know what was amazing, though, about that is really that that was really respected from both Republicans and Democrats, as well. You know, President Bush giving his condolences yesterday, but really a profound sense of respect, despite the fact that, no, they didn't see eye to eye.

But, Kate, you were saying before, you got e-mails and calls from Republicans all the way to the right...

SNOW: Hundreds of them. I want to quickly ask Dana, because we're running out of time.

Dana, there is talk, I mean, very delicately now, about what they're going to do, what the Democratic Party is going to do. Is Walter Mondale really a real possibility being talked about out there to take the place on the ballot?

BASH: He's definitely kind of the top contender, in terms of who people are talking about to take the place. But you're right, it is delicate. Emotions are very raw right now.

But one thing we do know in terms of kind of how it's going to work, the secretary of state out here yesterday said that her interpretation of the law out here is that the Democratic Party will have to replace Senator Wellstone on the ticket. She gave them until next Friday, 4:30 next Friday, to do that. And voters out here will have a supplemental ballot so that they can pick from between the Republican candidate, Norm Coleman, and the Democratic candidate.

Now, the Democratic Party, it's up to them out here to decide who they're going to put on the ballot. And, again, it is a little bit raw right now, but people are, both on a national level and a state level, definitely talking up the name Walter Mondale. 74-year-old Walter Mondale, former senator, former vice president.

SNOW: Right. And remember why it matters to everybody out there, because the Senate is divided...

ARENA: Right.

SNOW: ... by, you know -- there's one vote up right now dividing them. There were about six races that we've been really watching, and this is one of them, key races that could tip the balance in the Senate.

MALVEAUX: And to underscore that point, too, I mean, the president literally recruited, personally recruited Norm Coleman to take on Wellstone before. I mean, he had three trips to Minnesota this past year, and decided to try to convince Norm Coleman to take on the Senate race. He was going to go for the governorship and had a personal meeting with the president and decided that he would take on this race. I mean, that is how important this is.

MESERVE: Are national Democratic leaders weighing in on this?

SNOW: They're, you know, very privately -- I had a lot of talks with people yesterday, and there were a lot of names floating around. And then late in the day yesterday, Mondale's name sort of emerged as the top one.

But the big -- last night I talked to some Democrat operative here in town who said, "We've got to talk to the family, we've got to talk to the Wellstones." He does have two sons, one of whom is of age, above 30, who could run for Senate. And they want to talk to the family and explore that this weekend before they, you know, decide what direction to go.

Meantime, Republicans are sort of scrambling because privately they'll say, you know, the sympathy factor -- you have to mention it, but it's going to be there, much like with Mel Carnahan's death a couple of years ago, and that people might vote for someone out of sympathy. And if that lose that seat, again, it's a pretty big deal with Republicans. They've got to make it up somewhere else.

ARENA: Well, Dana, we'd like to thank you for joining us today and for your excellent perspective...

BASH: Thank you.

ARENA: ... and reporting.

And we will be returning with more on the sniper story. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WOLF BLITZER, HOST, CNN'S LATE EDITION: Some of your colleagues in the District of Columbia police force, Chief Ramsey, have suggested that there may be a Chevy Caprice that was seen, a burgundy color, older model, that was seen leaving the shooting in Northwest Washington. What can you tell us, if anything, about that?

MOOSE: Well, that is also a lookout that that has been put out there. And I think there has been more law enforcement focus on that, not a big push for public feedback about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ARENA: Montgomery County, Maryland, police chief Charles Moose, the head of the Washington, D.C. area sniper task force, commenting on October 13th. That's a week and a half before the arrests on what turned out to be a key piece of evidence in the case. The public poured in information to the telephone tip line set up by the law enforcement task force. And the officers had to decide which bits of information to give out.

MESERVE: Kelli, I wanted to zip back if I could to the matter of prosecution, which is the big issue that's out there now, a really complicated situation here. A lot of ego involved, a lot of politics involved.

ARENA: Right, well, if there were any dissension, we were seeing it in public right now. I mean, you not have seen it on the investigative front. But yesterday -- as you know, there have been meetings among prosecutors all along since the arrests took place as to how they were going to handle this. And we did hear from Montgomery County, saying, "Hey, we'd like to bring state charges against the two, try Malvo as an adult even though he's 17 years old, and put Muhammed up for the death penalty."

Well, my phone was burning up after that.

SNOW: That was the county, that was the county...

MESERVE: Right, that was the state attorney...

ARENA: ... my phone starts burning up from other people that were present in some of those discussions saying, "Wait a minute. First of all, we need to tell you Doug Gansler went out on his own with that statement. We are not at all, you know, in agreement here. This is a very fluid situation."

This very well may be federal even. There may be federal charges brought, not state charges brought, because of the -- of course the big issue is the death penalty.

MESERVE: And the feds have them, and possession is 99 percent of the law, as they say.

MALVEAUX: Right, exactly. We say that a lot.

SNOW: Is that why it matters? Is it the death penalty? I mean, why does it matter where they're tried?

MESERVE: Well, they want them tried some place where they're going to get the maximum penalty...

ARENA: I mean, Maryland...

MESERVE: And Maryland's...

ARENA: ... obviously, they have a moratorium on the death penalty.

MESERVE: Although they say that's for past cases, not for future cases.

ARENA: But the appeals court is known to have -- to be more sympathetic against the death penalty. So there's a lot that is going on, at least in the state of Maryland, if the charges are brought at the state level. Now, obviously, if they're brought at the federal level, that's a different story.

MESERVE: And Virginia has a much tougher death penalty legislation, and both the minor and the adult could be put up on capital charges.

MALVEAUX: Right. In Virginia, they will execute...

MESERVE: And they have been executing people in considerable numbers.

MALVEAUX: Is the 17-year-old being charged as an adult? I mean, how are they treating him? Because on one hand we see pictures of him, and then on the other hand we see his name. But then they say, "Well, he's a juvenile so we can't see him in court." And we see the sketches.

I mean, how is he going to be dealt with?

ARENA: Well, the plan is to treat him as an adult, to try him as an adult. And...

MESERVE: And they did not put out his name, by the way.

ARENA: Right.

MESERVE: I mean, the media did.

ARENA: The media put out his name. I mean, he's 17, but for all intents and purposes, from here on out, he will be treated as an adult. That seems to be at least a consensus among all of the lawyers.

SNOW: Could we go back? Go back to what we just heard Chief Moose talking about there. I mean, I guess my question is, it seemed like all of a sudden there was this talk about the Caprice, and we were putting that on television. We were talking about it. On the bottom of our screen, "Look out for a blue or" -- I heard you say it -- "look out for a blue or burgundy Caprice." And then Moose came out and didn't say that.

So my question is, did the media actually help solve this case?

MESERVE: In the end, they did. I mean, thank goodness, thank goodness.

MALVEAUX: The media, right, was pivotal.

MESERVE: I mean, if it had turned out differently, I'm sure we'd have some egg on our faces, to be perfectly frank. But yes, we put the description out there, and this truck driver had heard it and saw it and called it in, and then used his rig to block the exit...

ARENA: Right. I mean, they literally told him to go out and put his car so that there was no exit way...

MESERVE: ... so he couldn't get out, for the vehicle.

SNOW: Has there been any second guessing about why the police didn't want to get that information out? Were they not ready yet to go out and go for these two guys?

MESERVE: Oh, I think they were ready, because we were all hanging on tenterhooks there waiting for them to come out with the names. So they were ready.

ARENA: But there was a very legitimate thought -- I mean, people legitimately believed that it was a white vehicle, a white van or a white truck, that was involved. And I can tell you that several people that I've spoken to were stopped, I mean, here in the Washington area, you know, bringing their kids to school, working, who were driving in white box trucks or white vans, taken out of the vehicles at gunpoint.

I mean, the guns were drawn and they were told to get out of the vehicles so that law enforcement could run an inspection, could inspect the vehicles.

MALVEAUX: Why where we looking for the white van in the first place? I mean...

ARENA: Because...

MALVEAUX: ... he didn't explain that, "Well, that's something we're looking at, but we're not bringing that to the public's attention." I mean, why didn't Moose make that distinction in the first place?

MESERVE: Well, witnesses had seen those other vehicles at the scenes, or thought they had.

And the police always said, "We're not certain these vehicles have anything to do with the shootings," but -- and they had enough information from these witnesses that they could actually put together those composite and release them.

ARENA: And they were credible witnesses. I mean, we know that there were situations where the witnesses were far from credible, but they were credible witnesses who had seen this. And this seemed to be the one pattern. What I think we've all learned is that there were an awful lot of white vans in the Washington area.

MESERVE: And in the defense of the police, they also always said, "We're interested in any suspicious vehicle you've seen. It doesn't have to be white." I mean, they realized that they were going to have this problem where people in the area of the shooting would automatically key in on the white vehicles and might miss something else.

ARENA: Although many did, many did. And several law enforcement sources that I spoke to in the past several days said that, yes, I mean, they really were looking out for -- I mean, that was an image they couldn't let go of and, therefore, it was not an image that the public could let go of. They really were focusing.

I know when I was driving along and I saw a white box truck or a white van...

MALVEAUX: I was patrolling my neighborhood. I was literally in that neighborhood where the killings took place. I was in my car every night, just checking things out.

SNOW: We're going to talk more about the sniper attacks dominating the headlines for days, blanking out a lot of the political news in the final days of this campaign 2002.

More on that in a moment, but first a check on what stories are making headlines at this hour from Atlanta.

(NEWSBREAK)

SNOW: Still ahead on CNN's SATURDAY EDITION, more on the sniper attacks, the impact on the political world and other fallout. We'll have the president's weekly radio address, and we'll talk baseball with CNN's Josie Karp in California.

All coming up on CNN's SATURDAY EDITION.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SNOW: Guns and politics is what we're going to talk about next. Wisconsin Governor Scott McCallum this week was part of a National Rifle Association rally near Milwaukee. That also involved Charleton Heston. They were campaigning on behalf of candidates around the country, a reminder that the gun debate is always with us, even without the sniper attacks in and around Washington over the past three weeks.

But certainly the issue got a lot more attention on the national level, on the national media, you know, with the sniper attacks going on.

I have to say though, I've been looking this week for -- earlier in the week before they thought they had found the guys responsible -- looking at whether it was really resonating out other in the political world, and whether people were starting to run ads, you know, playing off of gun control and the sniper. And we don't find that much. You don't find that it was being picked up in local campaigns.

MALVEAUX: Well, what about the Maryland race? I mean, wasn't that -- that seems to be an issue that seems to be sticking at least for that area.

SNOW: Yes, in Maryland, definitely, the Maryland governor's race. Kathleen Kennedy Townsend running as the Democrat there. She had already been making an issue out of gun control before the sniper attacks started, and then for a little while, wasn't going to run any ads. Remember this? And then she came around and said, "Actually, I am going to run some ads."

MESERVE: And there was some real concern about what was going to happen in Maryland on Election Day if they didn't catch these guys, because turnout -- and in an area that would have voted heavily for Townsend. And so there was real concern about what would happen. The governor even talking about bringing in National Guard for a while.

ARENA: Well, what was the deal? I mean, was it because it just didn't resonate nationally, the sniper attacks? Or was it that...

SNOW: There are a lot of reasons, I think. I mean, one is that gun control, it's always an issue out there and people who are either very much for gun control or very pro gun rights tend to be set early on on that, I think is the thinking. And so it's not something that's going to sway them at the last minute.

You know, also you have a lot of Democrats now who are actually trying sort of reverse logic. They're actually trying to look like they're more, not pro-gun, but pro-gun rights.

We were looking back at some of the ads that have been running before the sniper attacks started. In fact, there's one that got a lot of attention in South Carolina. The candidate there, the Democrat, running this ad, that I think we have a clip of, that he ended up having to pull off of the air. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEX SANDERS, DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE FOR SENATE FROM SOUTH CAROLINA: I want to go to Washington. Take aim. Corporate corruption. Dumb Washington ideas that waste our money. You take this one (inaudible).

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SNOW: It's Alex Sanders running for Senate down in South Carolina. Unfortunate timing.

MALVEAUX: You know, yes, the timing was really bad.

SNOW: It was an ad that he had prepared anyhow, and it just -- so he pulled it off of the air.

But the point is that there are actually Democrats like Jean Carnahan running for Senate in Missouri. She went out to a shooting range and had some still photos taken of her before the sniper attacks, to show that she is, you know, an advocate of gun rights, but safe gun rights. And the woman who is running for Alaska governor, the lieutenant governor of Alaska, a Democrat, carries a handgun in her purse.

So there's definitely that going on at the same time.

MESERVE: There are exceptions too, though, like Ed Rendell up in Pennsylvania, right?

SNOW: Yes, there are. I mean, it's a mixed bag.

I was talking to the Brady campaign about whether this was really galvanizing things for them. And they did say, the one place they thought it was having some impact was that the media was asking a lot of questions. The media, some of the local debates going on around the country, some of the senatorial debates that have been happening all week all over the country, this was definitely a topic of interest, but it was mostly because the media on the panels that asked this questions in the debates were asking the questions, and not so much that regular voters were that concerned about it.

MALVEAUX: And after the break, we'll talk about the impact of the sniper case on the White House and politics as well.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: I am deeply saddened by the recent tragedy that we've seen here in Washington. There is a ruthless person on the loose. I've ordered the full resources of the federal government to help local law enforcement officials in their efforts to capture this person.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: The sniper story commanded not only the attention of the Washington, but the nation and the White House. President Bush received daily briefings throughout the attacks, but he took a less public and vocal role than some of his critics wanted.

This was a huge debate inside of the White House. It was not only Chief Moose that was getting advice from law enforcement about what he should say, what he shouldn't say, the particular words, what was the timing of all of this. I mean, it was extremely sensitive and very deliberate how this White House dealt with it.

And the president did get quite a bit of criticism because throughout the week we were asking Ari Fleischer, the White House spokesperson, "What does the president think about this? Will he talk about this publicly?" You know, at that point, finally when they felt that it was an appropriate time, he did say something. But there was a lot of debate around this.

ARENA: Well, we didn't see him. One critic said, "Well, why don't we see more of him at the area of the shootings in the Washington area? Why isn't he going out and playing the great comforter role, you know, to the community?"

SNOW: Or show that it's safe to be out out in Montgomery County, Maryland. He could have walked the streets.

ARENA: What was the decision-making there?

MALVEAUX: I think that's something that perhaps, you know, previous presidents would have felt more comfortable doing, but really... SNOW: One previous president that we can all...

MALVEAUX: One previous president, we can think about Clinton. But the advice and the concern was that you don't want to elevate to this to the point where the president is responding to the sniper. That was the main concern. You don't want the president actually engaging in a dialogue with the sniper. And you don't want it to disrupt what was happening between Chief Moose, discussing and giving cues to the sniper and what the president is saying on air.

MESERVE: Well, there was...

ARENA: And they were so careful with what they said.

MESERVE: Although it got messed up a little bit at one point when the governor of Maryland, Parris Glendening, came to one of the earlier press conferences and said, "This guy is a coward," and very outspoken. And he was totally off the reservation, apparently. And they were very upset, because he was sending all of the wrong messages.

ARENA: They had to be very careful. And if you watched Chief Moose, with his furrowed brow and just so deliberate and so careful in choosing the words that came out of his mouth. And as Jeanne knows, part of what did come out of his mouth was really a rouse.

MESERVE: Oh, yes. This was -- I love this little nugget we found yesterday.

(CROSSTALK)

MESERVE: No, no. You remember the Tarot card.

SNOW: Yes.

MESERVE: When the writing on the Tarot card became public, Moose came out and said, "The media, you know, you shouldn't have done this. You're messing with our investigation."

I was interviewing Doug Duncan of -- the county executive up in Montgomery County yesterday, and I said, "Was that an act?" And he said, "Absolutely."

SNOW: Wait, why? Why?

MESERVE: He said, "Absolutely." He said investigators were not happy that this was released. It didn't help their cause at all. But the sniper had asked them specifically not to make it public, so they had to go out and make a big to-do about it...

SNOW: Oh.

MESERVE: ... so the sniper would not hold them responsible. And it would perhaps keep that line of communication open a little bit more.

SNOW: OK, now, how about all of the freaking things that Moose was saying the other night?

(LAUGHTER)

A duck in the -- "We've got you in the noose." I don't remember the exact words. But it was...

ARENA: "We've got you like a duck in a noose."

SNOW: What was that all about?

MALVEAUX: What did that mean?

MESERVE: I've heard a lot of speculation that it comes from some folktale or something where a duck is caught and then it escapes.

ARENA: Or it's also a part of -- it's a line in a song as well. There's a line in a song.

SNOW: I thought the line in the song was "Our word is bond."

MESERVE: "Our word is bond" is the part that they...

ARENA: But that was from the letter. The letter that was written had those words in it, you know, "Word is bond." And so that was repeated by Chief Moose.

MESERVE: Well, I think this also came from something in the sniper communication, the duck in the noose, because he said explicitly, "You wanted me to say."

SNOW: The bottom line, they were still trying to communicate with the sniper...

MESERVE: Well, they didn't have him at that point.

ARENA: I mean, there was even speculation -- I will tell you how far the speculation has gone -- that "like a duck in a noose," if you take the first letter of each of those words, it spells out LADIN like bin Laden. And that is really, you know, at least according to investigators.

Now, yes, investigators are looking into whether there is any other organized connection in any way that that these individuals had with any group. But there's no evidence to support it.

SNOW: But have they ruled that out?

ARENA: They are talking to detainees at Guantanamo Bay and elsewhere, going to them with the photos, with the names, to find out if there was any communication ever at any time, whether or not these types of attacks were ever discussed among organized terror organizations.

ARENA: But nothing, nothing at this point to suggest that there is any evidence attaching these individuals to any organized group, except for the Nation of Islam. I mean, Muhammed belonged to the Nation of Islam, actually provided security at the Million Man March here in Washington back in 1995. But nothing more sinister than that.

MALVEAUX: But they were sympathizers, right, to 9/11? They had some comments they had made?

ARENA: Yes, they did. Investigators took notes. They interviewed neighbors who said that they had made anti-American statements and that they said that they could sympathize with the cause of the September 11 attackers.

SNOW: We're going to talk about something that the rest of the country, I think, has been watching very closely outside of Washington. That's the World Series. That's coming up.

Josie Karp is out in California. She's going to be joining us.

Hi, Josie.

JOSIE KARP, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kate.

You know, a toddler actually threatened to steal the show here at the World Series. But really, was anyone watching? We will talk about the little bat boy, the tiny ratings and the big slugger when CNN's SATURDAY EDITION continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KARP: Here in Anaheim, the San Francisco Giants have their first chance to win a World Series tonight since they won one back in 1954. But the hot topic out here is, "Who's going to be the bat boy?" Is three-and-a-half-year-old Darren Baker (ph) actually going to be in the dugout and out in the field tonight after what happened in game five?

It's the thing that everyone has been talking about during the off day. It's the thing that was in the newspapers this morning.

The little kid was near home plate when J.T. Snow (ph), the first baseman, was crossing the plate, he had to grab him out of the way. And by some accounts, it was a cute moment, a funny moment or a very, very scary moment. And it's something that everyone is talking about.

Did you ladies see that? And as parents, as people who have nieces and nephews, what did you think?

ARENA: As a mother, you know, of a two-and-a-half-year-old, my heart goes right in my mouth when I see that. That would have -- I would have been out on the field...

(LAUGHTER)

... running after the kid myself.

SNOW: But did you see the little guy's face? Did you see how sad he was when he realized that he had messed up? He really was -- he looked like he was crushed, Josie, like he knew that he had done the wrong thing. KARP: Ladies, I'm having a little bit of a hard time hearing you. I want to give some sort of news update to this story and let you know that Darren Baker (ph) is going to be in the dugout. He is going to be the bat boy.

(LAUGHTER)

But what the Major League Baseball officials have said is there is a chance that this is something they will revisit, because right now anybody can be in the dugout at any time, and it's just according to each club and each individual. And Dusty Baker (ph) is a very family-oriented manager. He likes to have kids around. He said it keeps the team loose.

But he wasn't laughing about it, and he's promised he's going to keep a closer eye on the little boy. He told that to baseball, and he told that it to his mother and his wife as well.

Again, it's a big story in the large scheme of things, but when we focus on baseball, Barry Bonds has still been the story of this World Series. We talked about it last week, anticipating what the guy might do.

SNOW: Right.

KARP: And he's really lived up to the billing. He's batting 500. And he's been on -- his on-base percentage is 727. And that's really unheard of.

So it's interesting to see that even though they've walked him as much as they have, and they have done that, the guy has really contributed. And there's a good chance he could be named the MVP of this series, if the Giants win.

ARENA: If the Giants, win. That's the key, Josie.

How are the fans responding to Bonds?

KARP: You know, in San Francisco, obviously, they adore him. Here in his very first at-bat in the World Series in Anaheim, he hit that homerun. And the most interesting thing about that was it was so quiet. You could hear a pin drop in the stadium, because he was doing it on the road and that's where they didn't want to see Barry Bonds hit a homerun.

And you asked me about the fans. The other big story with this World Series is the question of, "Is anyone watching it?" It's taking place in California. It's two California teams.

ARENA: Right.

KARP: They are small-market teams compared to, you know, New York and other places...

ARENA: But nobody watched New York either, Josie.

KARP: ... and the ratings have been so low.

ARENA: Nobody watched that subway series either.

(LAUGHTER)

I mean, you know, so...

KARP: You're exactly right. And this all-California series has matched that bad rating for bad rating. If you go back to that game five, it was the second-lowest World Series rated game ever. And "Survivor: Thailand" and "Friends" beat it.

Normally, even if you have low ratings in the World Series, it's still going to win the night and carry the night for the network. It didn't do it this time. And there are a couple of factors that contribute to it.

ARENA: What are they?

KARP: One being the late start times. You know, who's going to stay up that late to watch these games that start on the East Coast around 8:30?

And then the fact that they go so late, who is going to be able to stick with it when they see that a team can get off to a big lead, like has happened in this World Series? There have been close games, but there have been some blowouts early. When you think it's over, so you turn it off.

So there's probably something that needs to be done there in terms of those start times.

SNOW: Josie, you know, the last game wasn't very close, right? I forget the score. Sorry, it was...

KARP: Sixteen to four...

SNOW: It was a blowout. What do we think about tonight? What's Barry Bonds going to do tonight? What do we think about tonight? Close game or not?

KARP: Well, gut feeling, I mean, Barry Bonds has done everything that you'd expect him to do in this World Series. So yes, you'd think he's going to do something and shine when the light is so bright on him.

But pitching has not been the story in this World Series. That's why you're seeing teams get 16 hits and 16 runs, or get 10 hits, in a couple of these games, the way the Angels have, and that's something that World Series teams just haven't done.

KARP: So the anticipation, especially because these two guys were the starters in that 11-10 game, back in game 2, is that we could see a lot more runs and we could see a lot more hits tonight.

And it's hard to say what happens in this situation, who's going to come out on top. But that has certainly been the case, a lot of hits, lot of runs and not very good starting pitching.

SNOW: Josie Karp joining us from California.

Thanks so much. Enjoy the game tonight. We'll get back with you after that game. I'm sure she'll have a full report for us. Thank you so much.

And we have a little bit of news, I think, that Kelli Arena wanted to bring to us.

ARENA: That's right. The AP is currently reporting that the individual that the FBI was looking for on a material witness warrant in connection with the sniper investigation, this is the individual who was co-owner of that Chevy Caprice, where the two men were found and arrested, has been taken into custody in Michigan.

So that wraps up that part of the story, at least according to the AP.

SNOW: OK. And we'll continue to follow that.

That is our SATURDAY EDITION for this week. Our thanks to all of our panelists.

Thank you for watching.

Coming up, People in the News, but before that we have a news alert, with more about the sniper attacks on "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS" just after that. But first, the president's weekly radio address.

(BEGIN AUDIOTAPE)

BUSH: America's health care system has advantages no other nation can match but also challenges we cannot ignore. The quality of American medicine is excellent, yet too many Americans live in communities lacking good clinics and basic health care. Others are forced to wait for new medical devices that are delayed in an over- burdened approval process. And the high cost of prescription drugs is placing a heaving financial burden on many Americans, especially our seniors.

This week, we are taking steps to address all of these problems.

Today, I have signed legislation that will expand the number of community health centers across the country. Community health centers are America's healthcare safety net, providing prenatal care, check- ups and preventative treatments to anyone who walks in the door. They serve more than a million people, mainly in remote areas or in inner- city neighborhoods, places where too many people do not have the access to the quality health care they deserve.

I have set a goal of creating 1,200 new and expanded community health centers by the year 2006. The bill I signed today will help my administration achieve this goal. If Congress funds my budget request for these important health centers, we can help an additional 1 million Americans get health care in 2003, and 4 million more by 2006. Also, today, I'm signing legislation that provides faster access to safe and effective medical devices. Each year American companies are creating new technologies to save and improve lives, technologies like coronary stents and increasingly sophisticated pacemakers, which have helped reduce the death rate from heart disease by 35 percent since 1980.

Medical devices are often very complex and require careful testing before they're approved by the Food and Drug Administration. But the FDA is overwhelmed by the volume of new technologies, making delays more frequent and undermining the quality of device reviews.

Under the new law, we're going to speed up and improve the approval process. Companies that manufacture medical devices will be required to pay a reasonable fee to the FDA so the FDA can afford more expert staff to conduct thorough reviews within reasonable time limits. The entire nation will benefit from a faster approval of life-saving innovations.

Earlier this week, I also announced action to bring lower-cost generic drugs to market more quickly. Right now some brand-name drug companies are using legal maneuvers to delay the approval of generic drugs, sometimes for years. We're setting new limits on those delays.

By reducing the public's wait for quality generic drugs, we will reduce the cost of prescriptions in this country by more than $3 billion each year. These savings will help employer health plans, state Medicaid programs and seniors who buy medicines on their own.

On health care reform, we still have much work ahead of us. I applaud the House of Representatives for passing a prescription drug benefit for seniors and for its efforts to fix the nation's badly broken medical liability system, which is driving up the cost of medicine and driving good doctors out of the profession. I'm disappointed that the Senate has failed to act on these important reforms.

With these reforms and the actions we have taken this week, we'll bring the benefits of our health care system into the lives of more Americans.

Thank you for listening.

(END AUDIOTAPE)

SNOW: President Bush with his weekly radio address about prescription drugs.

A little bit of news now on the sniper investigation. I turn to my colleague, Kelli Arena.

ARENA: That's right. Well, CNN has confirmed that the person that was wanted in connection with the sniper investigation, Nathaniel Osbourne, has indeed been arrested. He is the co-owner of the Chevy Caprice that was where the two individuals were ultimately arrested, the two alleged snipers were ultimately taken into custody. He was wanted as a material witness. We have been told by several sources that they do not believe that he played any sort of an accomplice role but that they wanted him as a material witness, which means they think he may have information that could be pertinent to this case. And he is now in custody.

SNOW: Kelli Arena, thanks.

Obviously, more on that developing story as CNN follows it throughout the day today here. Stay with CNN for that.

Right now we go to a commercial and then "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS."

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com




Wellstone Dies 11 Days Before Election; Is Anyone Watching World Series?>


Aired October 26, 2002 - 10:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to CNN's SATURDAY EDITION, where our journalists have the inside scoop on the stories we covered this week. I'm Kelli Arena.
We start with the sniper story, the three-week manhunt.

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Jeanne Meserve.

The stumbles and successes of such a large investigation into the shootings and the suspects.

KATE SNOW, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Kate Snow.

A sad story this week, the death of Senator Paul Wellstone, Democrat of Minnesota, just 11 days before the election.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And I'm Suzanne Malveaux.

We'll be talking about all these angles on the sniper story and the death of Senator Wellstone. We'll have the president's weekly radio address at the end of the hour. CNN Capitol Hill producer Dana Bash will be live from Minnesota and CNN sports correspondent Josie Karp joins us later from Anaheim, California, where she's covering game six of the Angels-Giants World Series.

But first, a check on the headlines from Atlanta.

(NEWSBREAK)

MESERVE: The sniper attacks killed 10 people, wounded three and frightened millions. A law enforcement army on the ground, in the air and laboratories, on the phones and on television, fought against what turned out to be two men with a deadly, still-unknown grudge. After 21 days, a flukey ending to a killing spree, with the suspects found asleep in their car.

MALVEAUX: I have not heard anything about motive. I mean, we talk about these guys are homeless or they're not doing well or one is a vagabond, his family is broken, but nothing that remotely comes close to explaining why did these guys do this. Do you have any idea?

MESERVE: Well, that's the question we don't have the answer to, unfortunately. A lot of speculation about it, what it might be about, but these men are not talking to the authorities. One of the theories that Kelli (ph) and I have been knock around with some other people is the possibility that maybe money was important to this. We know in that note found in Ashland they did make a demand for $10 million. They also said they had been trying to reach police prior to that. Is it possible they were trying to call up and make a money demand? Who knows? Or was the money a late add- on?

MALVEAUX: But what is that, what is the MO? I mean, are these guys spree killers? Did they just, you know, for fun decide to kill people? Was it a money thing? I mean, I...

ARENA: Nobody knows. Nobody knows. They're not talking. In fact, the younger Malvo actually tried to escape when he was in the interrogation room. Investigators walked out of the room, he wiggled out of his handcuffs, got on a chair, climbed into the ceiling ducts in the room. Investigators heard a crash, they came in, looked around, where was he. He was in the ceiling, and they pulled him out. So not exactly cooperating, to say the least.

But they do think -- I mean, there is now, little by little, a consensus building that all of the profiling and the psychobabble and thinking about a larger motive may not have been it at all. It may have been simply extortion. "We want $10 million, hand it over."

MESERVE: Well, so many of the things that were theorized about this case turned out to be wrong or appear to be wrong. I mean, one of them was this whole idea that they were watching us, that they were playing off the media and that when we said something or the police said something, they would immediately do something that was reactive.

SNOW: They discount that now?

MESERVE: Well, look, these guys were sleeping in cars a good part of the time. They weren't anyplace where they could watch cable television.

And in the end, look at that last night. Their names were out there, a description of the car, the license plate, were all out there in the public media, and they were asleep in a rest stop. I mean, clearly, they were not watching and didn't know that people were looking for them specifically or they would have been in some place less conspicuous, and they probably would've changed the plates on their car, at least.

SNOW: I'd like to ask both Jeanne and Kelli, because you guys have been so into this story and I have not. And as somebody on the outside, I just wonder how much coordination really was there among agencies? And then yesterday -- I know, it's the big question.

And then yesterday there was this -- the local attorney came out for the county, saying, "We're charging them." And it seemed like Justice officials were like, "Whoa, that's not what we wanted to do."

Is there dissension?

ARENA: Well, we can start with the investigation.

MESERVE: It's a mixed picture. I mean, I am told things worked much better here than they ever have in any other investigation of this sort.

ARENA: And we did see an unbelievable level of cooperation on some points.

MESERVE: That's right. I mean, lessons were learned in the aftermath of 9/11. And agencies have learned how to share information a little bit better, and they've learned how to work with the local jurisdictions a little bit better. And the fact that they didn't come in, the federal agencies didn't come in and say, "It's our investigation," helped smooth things over...

ARENA: Right.

MESERVE: ... to a considerable degree. But there definitely were some tensions.

ARENA: There were situations where...

MESERVE: You could definitely pick it up between the Maryland task force and the people in Virginia, where you had people up in Maryland referring to the Virginians as being "south of the border," and you had people down there feeling that people in Maryland were trying to make them look like yokels.

ARENA: Yokels, exactly.

SNOW: And yet they found these guys. Was it just -- was it accidental with all of this information coming in...

ARENA: No. No, no, no.

MESERVE: No.

ARENA: It wasn't. But it was -- at least what got things going was an initial tip. And they believe that was an initial tip from Malvo himself calling in and saying, "Hey, I've killed before. Check out Montgomery. You'll see." They thought at the time, of course, he was talking about Montgomery County, where so many of the killings had taken place. And then they got information from a clergyman who said, "Well, I got, you know, a phone call from someone talking about Montgomery, Alabama." And then boom, from there, they realized there was a shooting. They pick up a print. They trace it back to Malvo.

MALVEAUX: What was it like on Thursday, being there on the scene, Jeanne? I mean, that must have been absolutely amazing when all of these details started coming together fast and furious and you had something to go with.

MESERVE: Well, on Wednesday night, when the pieces really clearly something was afoot, I was here with Kelli, the two of us were working the phone here.

(LAUGHTER)

But very early Thursday morning...

ARENA: (OFF-MIKE)

(LAUGHTER)

MESERVE: But very early Thursday morning, when I reappeared back in Rockville, it was just a totally different atmosphere. There was very heavy security around the police headquarters up there because they were afraid at some point that these people might come by there and take a shot or two.

MALVEAUX: Absolutely.

MESERVE: But you walked in that morning, and all of a sudden the guys who were handling security had big grins on their faces and were so much more relaxed and were willing to really joke around with you as you walked in. I mean, the tension had obviously dissipated to such a great degree.

SNOW: It's like that all over the city now, too.

MESERVE: That's right.

SNOW: I mean, you can sense it, you know, among the -- you know, the children, they can finally go outside again.

MALVEAUX: I have to say too, though, it took for a while for me and I think a lot of other people too, who just had some doubts in the beginning, is this really over? Is there a third person who's out there? Were they working with other people?

I mean, I really get a sense that it was hard to believe. I mean, I don't mean to sound, you know, anti-climatic in a way that is critical of this, but there was a sense...

ARENA: There's a material witness warrant out for one other individual in relation to this, so that is a dangling, you know, part of the story.

(CROSSTALK)

MALVEAUX: And there's a sense that it wasn't over. There was a concern about that.

MESERVE: Although I did talk to one official yesterday who said, "Every indication is no accomplices to this."

ARENA: Right.

SNOW: Of course these guys haven't been convicted yet. We should probably keep saying that too.

We're going to talk a lot more about the sniper investigation for much of this hour. But ahead, another big story this week, a very sad story, the death of Senator Paul Wellstone, Democrat of Minnesota, with our Capital Hill producer, Dana Bash, in Minneapolis. We'll talk about the Senator, his impact on government and politics and the upcoming election when CNN's SATURDAY EDITION comes right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Paul Wellstone was a man of deep convictions. He was a plain-spoken fellow who did his best for his state and for his country. May the good Lord bless those who grieve.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SNOW: President Bush speaking yesterday after Senator Paul Wellstone, Democrat of Minnesota, was killed, along with his wife, daughter, staff members and two pilots in a light plane crash.

Joining us from St. Paul, outside the Paul Wellstone campaign, now is CNN's Capitol Hill producer Dana Bash. She's going to join us for this segment.

Dana, I was on the Hill yesterday. I can't remember a day like yesterday. I mean, the hallways, people were just walking through the halls with tears in their eyes and the sadness was palpable. I'm sure it's the same where you are.

DANA BASH, CNN CAPITOL HILL PRODUCER: Yes, it really is. It's remarkable. I mean, as soon as we -- well, I'll tell you, first of all, where I am now. I'm standing here in front of Wellstone campaign headquarters where you can see behind me, there's kind of a makeshift memorial that's up here. People are coming, they're putting flowers up, cards, notes, pictures. And people have -- there's kind of been a steady stream of people, even really early in the morning here, people coming to pay their respects to the senator and his family and the others who died.

Last night when we came in, we went immediately to the capital in St. Paul where there was kind of an impromptu candlelight vigil. And there were so many people there. I would say well over 1,000 people there, singing songs, lighting candles, hugging, crying. It was really, really emotional.

And there was even -- they even drove up Senator Wellstone's famous green bus, this bus that he used in his 1990 campaign, the first year that he ran for office when he was just a political science professor at Carlton College here in Minnesota. And he won -- he was the underdog and he won that year. And that green bus came to symbolize kind of his passion and his underdog quality.

You know, there were a lot of his staffers there, we were talking to them, and they were -- you can imagine how incredibly overcome with emotion they were. But they were just kind of telling stories about the senator, telling stories about the family, telling stories particularly about the senator and his wife and about their incredible partnership. They were married for 39 years. They were saying that they met when they were just 17 years old, married when they were 19. And they said that the two of them were really amazing. I

SNOW: They were incredible. And they were known around Capitol Hill. You know, she was a major advocate on domestic violence and some other women's issues. She was, in her own right, a real activist.

He, of course, this incredible activist Democrat, liberal with a capital "L," kind of a different kind of character on Capitol Hill. You know, there are a lot of senators, there are a lot of Congress people who are often accused of, you know, taking a vote, you know, voting a certain way because they feel they have to or because there's pressure from back home or an interest group. Paul Wellstone wasn't that kind of senator, didn't have that reputation. I mean, he had the reputation of just -- "conviction" is the word you keep hearing. He has this reputation of always voting his conscience, even if it went against his own party. He was often that one vote, you know, when it was a vote 99 to 1.

ARENA: Yes, well, you know, I heard the word "decent" repeatedly yesterday from so many of his colleagues, which is -- you know, you can look at that both ways. Wonderful testament to him, but you have to wonder if that is something that's striking people about the state of Washington.

MESERVE: Dana, I remember when we were covering the Bradley campaign, you and I, that he would appear with Bill Bradley. And you got a real sense that this not only was somebody who was politically distinctive but who had a real personality. Is that right?

BASH: A real personality. He loved it, he loved being out there. He would jump around. Remember, he would say, "We're going to fight, we're going to win, we're going to win," and he would kind of get a kick out of his own animation, so to speak.

But just on the question of him kind of doing his own thing, you know, one thing, of course, that I was immediately thinking of -- you have to remember, not only is this an incredible tragedy, but it comes at a time when there's a huge -- he was up for reelection here. And it's a hugely contested Senate race out here in Minnesota. He was neck and neck in the polls. And Senator Wellstone, you know, every vote that he was making back in the Senate really counted.

And in particular, this last vote that he took on the Iraq resolution was one that was really, really, really tough for him to do, because he knew that if he voted against the president, President Bush is very popular here in Minnesota and he knew that if he voted against the president, he could get in trouble back here. But he and I actually talked about it, we had a long talk about it in the halls of the Senate just a couple weeks before he took the vote, and he said to me, you know, "I decided that I just have to go with my conscience," and he said he didn't have any choice. He didn't have any choice.

SNOW: And you know what happened to his numbers? His numbers actually went up.

BASH: Right. And he said, "I wouldn't be able to live with myself," he said to me, "if I didn't follow my heart." He said, "I love being in the Senate, I love being a senator. But if they decide that they don't want me because of this vote, so be it." He said, "I'll have something to talk about when I go back to being a political science professor."

MALVEAUX: And you know what was amazing, though, about that is really that that was really respected from both Republicans and Democrats, as well. You know, President Bush giving his condolences yesterday, but really a profound sense of respect, despite the fact that, no, they didn't see eye to eye.

But, Kate, you were saying before, you got e-mails and calls from Republicans all the way to the right...

SNOW: Hundreds of them. I want to quickly ask Dana, because we're running out of time.

Dana, there is talk, I mean, very delicately now, about what they're going to do, what the Democratic Party is going to do. Is Walter Mondale really a real possibility being talked about out there to take the place on the ballot?

BASH: He's definitely kind of the top contender, in terms of who people are talking about to take the place. But you're right, it is delicate. Emotions are very raw right now.

But one thing we do know in terms of kind of how it's going to work, the secretary of state out here yesterday said that her interpretation of the law out here is that the Democratic Party will have to replace Senator Wellstone on the ticket. She gave them until next Friday, 4:30 next Friday, to do that. And voters out here will have a supplemental ballot so that they can pick from between the Republican candidate, Norm Coleman, and the Democratic candidate.

Now, the Democratic Party, it's up to them out here to decide who they're going to put on the ballot. And, again, it is a little bit raw right now, but people are, both on a national level and a state level, definitely talking up the name Walter Mondale. 74-year-old Walter Mondale, former senator, former vice president.

SNOW: Right. And remember why it matters to everybody out there, because the Senate is divided...

ARENA: Right.

SNOW: ... by, you know -- there's one vote up right now dividing them. There were about six races that we've been really watching, and this is one of them, key races that could tip the balance in the Senate.

MALVEAUX: And to underscore that point, too, I mean, the president literally recruited, personally recruited Norm Coleman to take on Wellstone before. I mean, he had three trips to Minnesota this past year, and decided to try to convince Norm Coleman to take on the Senate race. He was going to go for the governorship and had a personal meeting with the president and decided that he would take on this race. I mean, that is how important this is.

MESERVE: Are national Democratic leaders weighing in on this?

SNOW: They're, you know, very privately -- I had a lot of talks with people yesterday, and there were a lot of names floating around. And then late in the day yesterday, Mondale's name sort of emerged as the top one.

But the big -- last night I talked to some Democrat operative here in town who said, "We've got to talk to the family, we've got to talk to the Wellstones." He does have two sons, one of whom is of age, above 30, who could run for Senate. And they want to talk to the family and explore that this weekend before they, you know, decide what direction to go.

Meantime, Republicans are sort of scrambling because privately they'll say, you know, the sympathy factor -- you have to mention it, but it's going to be there, much like with Mel Carnahan's death a couple of years ago, and that people might vote for someone out of sympathy. And if that lose that seat, again, it's a pretty big deal with Republicans. They've got to make it up somewhere else.

ARENA: Well, Dana, we'd like to thank you for joining us today and for your excellent perspective...

BASH: Thank you.

ARENA: ... and reporting.

And we will be returning with more on the sniper story. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WOLF BLITZER, HOST, CNN'S LATE EDITION: Some of your colleagues in the District of Columbia police force, Chief Ramsey, have suggested that there may be a Chevy Caprice that was seen, a burgundy color, older model, that was seen leaving the shooting in Northwest Washington. What can you tell us, if anything, about that?

MOOSE: Well, that is also a lookout that that has been put out there. And I think there has been more law enforcement focus on that, not a big push for public feedback about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ARENA: Montgomery County, Maryland, police chief Charles Moose, the head of the Washington, D.C. area sniper task force, commenting on October 13th. That's a week and a half before the arrests on what turned out to be a key piece of evidence in the case. The public poured in information to the telephone tip line set up by the law enforcement task force. And the officers had to decide which bits of information to give out.

MESERVE: Kelli, I wanted to zip back if I could to the matter of prosecution, which is the big issue that's out there now, a really complicated situation here. A lot of ego involved, a lot of politics involved.

ARENA: Right, well, if there were any dissension, we were seeing it in public right now. I mean, you not have seen it on the investigative front. But yesterday -- as you know, there have been meetings among prosecutors all along since the arrests took place as to how they were going to handle this. And we did hear from Montgomery County, saying, "Hey, we'd like to bring state charges against the two, try Malvo as an adult even though he's 17 years old, and put Muhammed up for the death penalty."

Well, my phone was burning up after that.

SNOW: That was the county, that was the county...

MESERVE: Right, that was the state attorney...

ARENA: ... my phone starts burning up from other people that were present in some of those discussions saying, "Wait a minute. First of all, we need to tell you Doug Gansler went out on his own with that statement. We are not at all, you know, in agreement here. This is a very fluid situation."

This very well may be federal even. There may be federal charges brought, not state charges brought, because of the -- of course the big issue is the death penalty.

MESERVE: And the feds have them, and possession is 99 percent of the law, as they say.

MALVEAUX: Right, exactly. We say that a lot.

SNOW: Is that why it matters? Is it the death penalty? I mean, why does it matter where they're tried?

MESERVE: Well, they want them tried some place where they're going to get the maximum penalty...

ARENA: I mean, Maryland...

MESERVE: And Maryland's...

ARENA: ... obviously, they have a moratorium on the death penalty.

MESERVE: Although they say that's for past cases, not for future cases.

ARENA: But the appeals court is known to have -- to be more sympathetic against the death penalty. So there's a lot that is going on, at least in the state of Maryland, if the charges are brought at the state level. Now, obviously, if they're brought at the federal level, that's a different story.

MESERVE: And Virginia has a much tougher death penalty legislation, and both the minor and the adult could be put up on capital charges.

MALVEAUX: Right. In Virginia, they will execute...

MESERVE: And they have been executing people in considerable numbers.

MALVEAUX: Is the 17-year-old being charged as an adult? I mean, how are they treating him? Because on one hand we see pictures of him, and then on the other hand we see his name. But then they say, "Well, he's a juvenile so we can't see him in court." And we see the sketches.

I mean, how is he going to be dealt with?

ARENA: Well, the plan is to treat him as an adult, to try him as an adult. And...

MESERVE: And they did not put out his name, by the way.

ARENA: Right.

MESERVE: I mean, the media did.

ARENA: The media put out his name. I mean, he's 17, but for all intents and purposes, from here on out, he will be treated as an adult. That seems to be at least a consensus among all of the lawyers.

SNOW: Could we go back? Go back to what we just heard Chief Moose talking about there. I mean, I guess my question is, it seemed like all of a sudden there was this talk about the Caprice, and we were putting that on television. We were talking about it. On the bottom of our screen, "Look out for a blue or" -- I heard you say it -- "look out for a blue or burgundy Caprice." And then Moose came out and didn't say that.

So my question is, did the media actually help solve this case?

MESERVE: In the end, they did. I mean, thank goodness, thank goodness.

MALVEAUX: The media, right, was pivotal.

MESERVE: I mean, if it had turned out differently, I'm sure we'd have some egg on our faces, to be perfectly frank. But yes, we put the description out there, and this truck driver had heard it and saw it and called it in, and then used his rig to block the exit...

ARENA: Right. I mean, they literally told him to go out and put his car so that there was no exit way...

MESERVE: ... so he couldn't get out, for the vehicle.

SNOW: Has there been any second guessing about why the police didn't want to get that information out? Were they not ready yet to go out and go for these two guys?

MESERVE: Oh, I think they were ready, because we were all hanging on tenterhooks there waiting for them to come out with the names. So they were ready.

ARENA: But there was a very legitimate thought -- I mean, people legitimately believed that it was a white vehicle, a white van or a white truck, that was involved. And I can tell you that several people that I've spoken to were stopped, I mean, here in the Washington area, you know, bringing their kids to school, working, who were driving in white box trucks or white vans, taken out of the vehicles at gunpoint.

I mean, the guns were drawn and they were told to get out of the vehicles so that law enforcement could run an inspection, could inspect the vehicles.

MALVEAUX: Why where we looking for the white van in the first place? I mean...

ARENA: Because...

MALVEAUX: ... he didn't explain that, "Well, that's something we're looking at, but we're not bringing that to the public's attention." I mean, why didn't Moose make that distinction in the first place?

MESERVE: Well, witnesses had seen those other vehicles at the scenes, or thought they had.

And the police always said, "We're not certain these vehicles have anything to do with the shootings," but -- and they had enough information from these witnesses that they could actually put together those composite and release them.

ARENA: And they were credible witnesses. I mean, we know that there were situations where the witnesses were far from credible, but they were credible witnesses who had seen this. And this seemed to be the one pattern. What I think we've all learned is that there were an awful lot of white vans in the Washington area.

MESERVE: And in the defense of the police, they also always said, "We're interested in any suspicious vehicle you've seen. It doesn't have to be white." I mean, they realized that they were going to have this problem where people in the area of the shooting would automatically key in on the white vehicles and might miss something else.

ARENA: Although many did, many did. And several law enforcement sources that I spoke to in the past several days said that, yes, I mean, they really were looking out for -- I mean, that was an image they couldn't let go of and, therefore, it was not an image that the public could let go of. They really were focusing.

I know when I was driving along and I saw a white box truck or a white van...

MALVEAUX: I was patrolling my neighborhood. I was literally in that neighborhood where the killings took place. I was in my car every night, just checking things out.

SNOW: We're going to talk more about the sniper attacks dominating the headlines for days, blanking out a lot of the political news in the final days of this campaign 2002.

More on that in a moment, but first a check on what stories are making headlines at this hour from Atlanta.

(NEWSBREAK)

SNOW: Still ahead on CNN's SATURDAY EDITION, more on the sniper attacks, the impact on the political world and other fallout. We'll have the president's weekly radio address, and we'll talk baseball with CNN's Josie Karp in California.

All coming up on CNN's SATURDAY EDITION.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SNOW: Guns and politics is what we're going to talk about next. Wisconsin Governor Scott McCallum this week was part of a National Rifle Association rally near Milwaukee. That also involved Charleton Heston. They were campaigning on behalf of candidates around the country, a reminder that the gun debate is always with us, even without the sniper attacks in and around Washington over the past three weeks.

But certainly the issue got a lot more attention on the national level, on the national media, you know, with the sniper attacks going on.

I have to say though, I've been looking this week for -- earlier in the week before they thought they had found the guys responsible -- looking at whether it was really resonating out other in the political world, and whether people were starting to run ads, you know, playing off of gun control and the sniper. And we don't find that much. You don't find that it was being picked up in local campaigns.

MALVEAUX: Well, what about the Maryland race? I mean, wasn't that -- that seems to be an issue that seems to be sticking at least for that area.

SNOW: Yes, in Maryland, definitely, the Maryland governor's race. Kathleen Kennedy Townsend running as the Democrat there. She had already been making an issue out of gun control before the sniper attacks started, and then for a little while, wasn't going to run any ads. Remember this? And then she came around and said, "Actually, I am going to run some ads."

MESERVE: And there was some real concern about what was going to happen in Maryland on Election Day if they didn't catch these guys, because turnout -- and in an area that would have voted heavily for Townsend. And so there was real concern about what would happen. The governor even talking about bringing in National Guard for a while.

ARENA: Well, what was the deal? I mean, was it because it just didn't resonate nationally, the sniper attacks? Or was it that...

SNOW: There are a lot of reasons, I think. I mean, one is that gun control, it's always an issue out there and people who are either very much for gun control or very pro gun rights tend to be set early on on that, I think is the thinking. And so it's not something that's going to sway them at the last minute.

You know, also you have a lot of Democrats now who are actually trying sort of reverse logic. They're actually trying to look like they're more, not pro-gun, but pro-gun rights.

We were looking back at some of the ads that have been running before the sniper attacks started. In fact, there's one that got a lot of attention in South Carolina. The candidate there, the Democrat, running this ad, that I think we have a clip of, that he ended up having to pull off of the air. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEX SANDERS, DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE FOR SENATE FROM SOUTH CAROLINA: I want to go to Washington. Take aim. Corporate corruption. Dumb Washington ideas that waste our money. You take this one (inaudible).

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SNOW: It's Alex Sanders running for Senate down in South Carolina. Unfortunate timing.

MALVEAUX: You know, yes, the timing was really bad.

SNOW: It was an ad that he had prepared anyhow, and it just -- so he pulled it off of the air.

But the point is that there are actually Democrats like Jean Carnahan running for Senate in Missouri. She went out to a shooting range and had some still photos taken of her before the sniper attacks, to show that she is, you know, an advocate of gun rights, but safe gun rights. And the woman who is running for Alaska governor, the lieutenant governor of Alaska, a Democrat, carries a handgun in her purse.

So there's definitely that going on at the same time.

MESERVE: There are exceptions too, though, like Ed Rendell up in Pennsylvania, right?

SNOW: Yes, there are. I mean, it's a mixed bag.

I was talking to the Brady campaign about whether this was really galvanizing things for them. And they did say, the one place they thought it was having some impact was that the media was asking a lot of questions. The media, some of the local debates going on around the country, some of the senatorial debates that have been happening all week all over the country, this was definitely a topic of interest, but it was mostly because the media on the panels that asked this questions in the debates were asking the questions, and not so much that regular voters were that concerned about it.

MALVEAUX: And after the break, we'll talk about the impact of the sniper case on the White House and politics as well.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: I am deeply saddened by the recent tragedy that we've seen here in Washington. There is a ruthless person on the loose. I've ordered the full resources of the federal government to help local law enforcement officials in their efforts to capture this person.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: The sniper story commanded not only the attention of the Washington, but the nation and the White House. President Bush received daily briefings throughout the attacks, but he took a less public and vocal role than some of his critics wanted.

This was a huge debate inside of the White House. It was not only Chief Moose that was getting advice from law enforcement about what he should say, what he shouldn't say, the particular words, what was the timing of all of this. I mean, it was extremely sensitive and very deliberate how this White House dealt with it.

And the president did get quite a bit of criticism because throughout the week we were asking Ari Fleischer, the White House spokesperson, "What does the president think about this? Will he talk about this publicly?" You know, at that point, finally when they felt that it was an appropriate time, he did say something. But there was a lot of debate around this.

ARENA: Well, we didn't see him. One critic said, "Well, why don't we see more of him at the area of the shootings in the Washington area? Why isn't he going out and playing the great comforter role, you know, to the community?"

SNOW: Or show that it's safe to be out out in Montgomery County, Maryland. He could have walked the streets.

ARENA: What was the decision-making there?

MALVEAUX: I think that's something that perhaps, you know, previous presidents would have felt more comfortable doing, but really... SNOW: One previous president that we can all...

MALVEAUX: One previous president, we can think about Clinton. But the advice and the concern was that you don't want to elevate to this to the point where the president is responding to the sniper. That was the main concern. You don't want the president actually engaging in a dialogue with the sniper. And you don't want it to disrupt what was happening between Chief Moose, discussing and giving cues to the sniper and what the president is saying on air.

MESERVE: Well, there was...

ARENA: And they were so careful with what they said.

MESERVE: Although it got messed up a little bit at one point when the governor of Maryland, Parris Glendening, came to one of the earlier press conferences and said, "This guy is a coward," and very outspoken. And he was totally off the reservation, apparently. And they were very upset, because he was sending all of the wrong messages.

ARENA: They had to be very careful. And if you watched Chief Moose, with his furrowed brow and just so deliberate and so careful in choosing the words that came out of his mouth. And as Jeanne knows, part of what did come out of his mouth was really a rouse.

MESERVE: Oh, yes. This was -- I love this little nugget we found yesterday.

(CROSSTALK)

MESERVE: No, no. You remember the Tarot card.

SNOW: Yes.

MESERVE: When the writing on the Tarot card became public, Moose came out and said, "The media, you know, you shouldn't have done this. You're messing with our investigation."

I was interviewing Doug Duncan of -- the county executive up in Montgomery County yesterday, and I said, "Was that an act?" And he said, "Absolutely."

SNOW: Wait, why? Why?

MESERVE: He said, "Absolutely." He said investigators were not happy that this was released. It didn't help their cause at all. But the sniper had asked them specifically not to make it public, so they had to go out and make a big to-do about it...

SNOW: Oh.

MESERVE: ... so the sniper would not hold them responsible. And it would perhaps keep that line of communication open a little bit more.

SNOW: OK, now, how about all of the freaking things that Moose was saying the other night?

(LAUGHTER)

A duck in the -- "We've got you in the noose." I don't remember the exact words. But it was...

ARENA: "We've got you like a duck in a noose."

SNOW: What was that all about?

MALVEAUX: What did that mean?

MESERVE: I've heard a lot of speculation that it comes from some folktale or something where a duck is caught and then it escapes.

ARENA: Or it's also a part of -- it's a line in a song as well. There's a line in a song.

SNOW: I thought the line in the song was "Our word is bond."

MESERVE: "Our word is bond" is the part that they...

ARENA: But that was from the letter. The letter that was written had those words in it, you know, "Word is bond." And so that was repeated by Chief Moose.

MESERVE: Well, I think this also came from something in the sniper communication, the duck in the noose, because he said explicitly, "You wanted me to say."

SNOW: The bottom line, they were still trying to communicate with the sniper...

MESERVE: Well, they didn't have him at that point.

ARENA: I mean, there was even speculation -- I will tell you how far the speculation has gone -- that "like a duck in a noose," if you take the first letter of each of those words, it spells out LADIN like bin Laden. And that is really, you know, at least according to investigators.

Now, yes, investigators are looking into whether there is any other organized connection in any way that that these individuals had with any group. But there's no evidence to support it.

SNOW: But have they ruled that out?

ARENA: They are talking to detainees at Guantanamo Bay and elsewhere, going to them with the photos, with the names, to find out if there was any communication ever at any time, whether or not these types of attacks were ever discussed among organized terror organizations.

ARENA: But nothing, nothing at this point to suggest that there is any evidence attaching these individuals to any organized group, except for the Nation of Islam. I mean, Muhammed belonged to the Nation of Islam, actually provided security at the Million Man March here in Washington back in 1995. But nothing more sinister than that.

MALVEAUX: But they were sympathizers, right, to 9/11? They had some comments they had made?

ARENA: Yes, they did. Investigators took notes. They interviewed neighbors who said that they had made anti-American statements and that they said that they could sympathize with the cause of the September 11 attackers.

SNOW: We're going to talk about something that the rest of the country, I think, has been watching very closely outside of Washington. That's the World Series. That's coming up.

Josie Karp is out in California. She's going to be joining us.

Hi, Josie.

JOSIE KARP, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kate.

You know, a toddler actually threatened to steal the show here at the World Series. But really, was anyone watching? We will talk about the little bat boy, the tiny ratings and the big slugger when CNN's SATURDAY EDITION continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KARP: Here in Anaheim, the San Francisco Giants have their first chance to win a World Series tonight since they won one back in 1954. But the hot topic out here is, "Who's going to be the bat boy?" Is three-and-a-half-year-old Darren Baker (ph) actually going to be in the dugout and out in the field tonight after what happened in game five?

It's the thing that everyone has been talking about during the off day. It's the thing that was in the newspapers this morning.

The little kid was near home plate when J.T. Snow (ph), the first baseman, was crossing the plate, he had to grab him out of the way. And by some accounts, it was a cute moment, a funny moment or a very, very scary moment. And it's something that everyone is talking about.

Did you ladies see that? And as parents, as people who have nieces and nephews, what did you think?

ARENA: As a mother, you know, of a two-and-a-half-year-old, my heart goes right in my mouth when I see that. That would have -- I would have been out on the field...

(LAUGHTER)

... running after the kid myself.

SNOW: But did you see the little guy's face? Did you see how sad he was when he realized that he had messed up? He really was -- he looked like he was crushed, Josie, like he knew that he had done the wrong thing. KARP: Ladies, I'm having a little bit of a hard time hearing you. I want to give some sort of news update to this story and let you know that Darren Baker (ph) is going to be in the dugout. He is going to be the bat boy.

(LAUGHTER)

But what the Major League Baseball officials have said is there is a chance that this is something they will revisit, because right now anybody can be in the dugout at any time, and it's just according to each club and each individual. And Dusty Baker (ph) is a very family-oriented manager. He likes to have kids around. He said it keeps the team loose.

But he wasn't laughing about it, and he's promised he's going to keep a closer eye on the little boy. He told that to baseball, and he told that it to his mother and his wife as well.

Again, it's a big story in the large scheme of things, but when we focus on baseball, Barry Bonds has still been the story of this World Series. We talked about it last week, anticipating what the guy might do.

SNOW: Right.

KARP: And he's really lived up to the billing. He's batting 500. And he's been on -- his on-base percentage is 727. And that's really unheard of.

So it's interesting to see that even though they've walked him as much as they have, and they have done that, the guy has really contributed. And there's a good chance he could be named the MVP of this series, if the Giants win.

ARENA: If the Giants, win. That's the key, Josie.

How are the fans responding to Bonds?

KARP: You know, in San Francisco, obviously, they adore him. Here in his very first at-bat in the World Series in Anaheim, he hit that homerun. And the most interesting thing about that was it was so quiet. You could hear a pin drop in the stadium, because he was doing it on the road and that's where they didn't want to see Barry Bonds hit a homerun.

And you asked me about the fans. The other big story with this World Series is the question of, "Is anyone watching it?" It's taking place in California. It's two California teams.

ARENA: Right.

KARP: They are small-market teams compared to, you know, New York and other places...

ARENA: But nobody watched New York either, Josie.

KARP: ... and the ratings have been so low.

ARENA: Nobody watched that subway series either.

(LAUGHTER)

I mean, you know, so...

KARP: You're exactly right. And this all-California series has matched that bad rating for bad rating. If you go back to that game five, it was the second-lowest World Series rated game ever. And "Survivor: Thailand" and "Friends" beat it.

Normally, even if you have low ratings in the World Series, it's still going to win the night and carry the night for the network. It didn't do it this time. And there are a couple of factors that contribute to it.

ARENA: What are they?

KARP: One being the late start times. You know, who's going to stay up that late to watch these games that start on the East Coast around 8:30?

And then the fact that they go so late, who is going to be able to stick with it when they see that a team can get off to a big lead, like has happened in this World Series? There have been close games, but there have been some blowouts early. When you think it's over, so you turn it off.

So there's probably something that needs to be done there in terms of those start times.

SNOW: Josie, you know, the last game wasn't very close, right? I forget the score. Sorry, it was...

KARP: Sixteen to four...

SNOW: It was a blowout. What do we think about tonight? What's Barry Bonds going to do tonight? What do we think about tonight? Close game or not?

KARP: Well, gut feeling, I mean, Barry Bonds has done everything that you'd expect him to do in this World Series. So yes, you'd think he's going to do something and shine when the light is so bright on him.

But pitching has not been the story in this World Series. That's why you're seeing teams get 16 hits and 16 runs, or get 10 hits, in a couple of these games, the way the Angels have, and that's something that World Series teams just haven't done.

KARP: So the anticipation, especially because these two guys were the starters in that 11-10 game, back in game 2, is that we could see a lot more runs and we could see a lot more hits tonight.

And it's hard to say what happens in this situation, who's going to come out on top. But that has certainly been the case, a lot of hits, lot of runs and not very good starting pitching.

SNOW: Josie Karp joining us from California.

Thanks so much. Enjoy the game tonight. We'll get back with you after that game. I'm sure she'll have a full report for us. Thank you so much.

And we have a little bit of news, I think, that Kelli Arena wanted to bring to us.

ARENA: That's right. The AP is currently reporting that the individual that the FBI was looking for on a material witness warrant in connection with the sniper investigation, this is the individual who was co-owner of that Chevy Caprice, where the two men were found and arrested, has been taken into custody in Michigan.

So that wraps up that part of the story, at least according to the AP.

SNOW: OK. And we'll continue to follow that.

That is our SATURDAY EDITION for this week. Our thanks to all of our panelists.

Thank you for watching.

Coming up, People in the News, but before that we have a news alert, with more about the sniper attacks on "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS" just after that. But first, the president's weekly radio address.

(BEGIN AUDIOTAPE)

BUSH: America's health care system has advantages no other nation can match but also challenges we cannot ignore. The quality of American medicine is excellent, yet too many Americans live in communities lacking good clinics and basic health care. Others are forced to wait for new medical devices that are delayed in an over- burdened approval process. And the high cost of prescription drugs is placing a heaving financial burden on many Americans, especially our seniors.

This week, we are taking steps to address all of these problems.

Today, I have signed legislation that will expand the number of community health centers across the country. Community health centers are America's healthcare safety net, providing prenatal care, check- ups and preventative treatments to anyone who walks in the door. They serve more than a million people, mainly in remote areas or in inner- city neighborhoods, places where too many people do not have the access to the quality health care they deserve.

I have set a goal of creating 1,200 new and expanded community health centers by the year 2006. The bill I signed today will help my administration achieve this goal. If Congress funds my budget request for these important health centers, we can help an additional 1 million Americans get health care in 2003, and 4 million more by 2006. Also, today, I'm signing legislation that provides faster access to safe and effective medical devices. Each year American companies are creating new technologies to save and improve lives, technologies like coronary stents and increasingly sophisticated pacemakers, which have helped reduce the death rate from heart disease by 35 percent since 1980.

Medical devices are often very complex and require careful testing before they're approved by the Food and Drug Administration. But the FDA is overwhelmed by the volume of new technologies, making delays more frequent and undermining the quality of device reviews.

Under the new law, we're going to speed up and improve the approval process. Companies that manufacture medical devices will be required to pay a reasonable fee to the FDA so the FDA can afford more expert staff to conduct thorough reviews within reasonable time limits. The entire nation will benefit from a faster approval of life-saving innovations.

Earlier this week, I also announced action to bring lower-cost generic drugs to market more quickly. Right now some brand-name drug companies are using legal maneuvers to delay the approval of generic drugs, sometimes for years. We're setting new limits on those delays.

By reducing the public's wait for quality generic drugs, we will reduce the cost of prescriptions in this country by more than $3 billion each year. These savings will help employer health plans, state Medicaid programs and seniors who buy medicines on their own.

On health care reform, we still have much work ahead of us. I applaud the House of Representatives for passing a prescription drug benefit for seniors and for its efforts to fix the nation's badly broken medical liability system, which is driving up the cost of medicine and driving good doctors out of the profession. I'm disappointed that the Senate has failed to act on these important reforms.

With these reforms and the actions we have taken this week, we'll bring the benefits of our health care system into the lives of more Americans.

Thank you for listening.

(END AUDIOTAPE)

SNOW: President Bush with his weekly radio address about prescription drugs.

A little bit of news now on the sniper investigation. I turn to my colleague, Kelli Arena.

ARENA: That's right. Well, CNN has confirmed that the person that was wanted in connection with the sniper investigation, Nathaniel Osbourne, has indeed been arrested. He is the co-owner of the Chevy Caprice that was where the two individuals were ultimately arrested, the two alleged snipers were ultimately taken into custody. He was wanted as a material witness. We have been told by several sources that they do not believe that he played any sort of an accomplice role but that they wanted him as a material witness, which means they think he may have information that could be pertinent to this case. And he is now in custody.

SNOW: Kelli Arena, thanks.

Obviously, more on that developing story as CNN follows it throughout the day today here. Stay with CNN for that.

Right now we go to a commercial and then "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS."

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