Return to Transcripts main page
On the Story
War in Iraq
Aired April 05, 2003 - 10:47 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And welcome to a special abbreviated edition of CNN's ON THE STORY, where our journalists have the inside word on what we covered this week. I'm Daryn Kagan in Kuwait City.
Joining me from Amman, Jordan, is Rym Brahimi. Andrea Koppel is at the State Department, and Barbara Starr is at her usual post at the Pentagon.
And, Barbara, we're going to start with you, bringing us the latest on the military elements of the story. Hello.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Hello to everyone.
Daryn, a couple of headlines from here this morning. Coalition aircraft have struck the home of Ali Hassam al-Majid, better known as Chemical Ali. They have bombed his home in the southern Iraqi city of Basra. He is one of the most wanted. No word yet on whether or not he was there.
And of course, U.S. ground forces have now completed their first probe into Baghdad. They have finished that, but the air commander in the region has now told reporters there will be 24/7 air missions over Baghdad to protect U.S. troops as they continue to move through the city.
Daryn?
KAGAN: Thank you so much.
Let's go ahead and check with Rym Brahimi.
Rym, you have the unfortunate turn of events to get kicked out of Baghdad because of our coverage here on CNN. But you've been doing a fine job covering this story from your post in Amman, Jordan.
What are you hearing from your sources about what's taking place inside of Baghdad at this hour?
RYM BRAHIMI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Daryn, it's a very windy day, as you can see, here in Amman. And a sandstorm blowing behind me, which is why the background is a little but fuzzy.
But definitely, we've been trying to follow events from here. I've been speaking to Baghdad on a regular basis. And what I heard today was, first of all, the overnight bombing gave clear indications to a lot of people, they're hearing bombing much, much closer to the enter of the Iraqi capital. They're also hearing lighter artillery shelling around Baghdad.
Now, that and the fact that they're also listening to international radio stations means that, despite what the Iraqi media is telling them, which is that the U.S. and its allies are lying about having taken the airport, well, people are aware of what's happening. There's also a lot of words to mouth going around. People do know that this is happening in Baghdad.
That said, a lot of people are very worried. They think that this means there will be street-to-street fighting pretty soon. And that's triggered a lot of back and forth movement for the population of Baghdad. Some people trying to leave the Iraqi capital, others trying to move from one neighborhood to another.
Back to you.
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Rym, I'm just curious, you know, one of the big stories yesterday was the video of Saddam not just giving that speech on Iraqi television, but also when he went out for the walkabout in Baghdad. We don't know, of course, when.
What has the reaction been in Jordan and elsewhere in the Arab world to the tape?
BRAHIMI: Well, you know, people really look at it not so much as whether or not Saddam Hussein -- that was Saddam Hussein in the pictures or not, but people do look at it as a fact that the system is still in place.
And people in Jordan, I was just speaking to people just half an hour ago, and it's amazing how, at every level of the population here, people are happy to see that there is some amount of resistance.
And it's not so much about Iraq or Saddam Hussein, as much as it is about the United States. And that's one point that I think is important to make. A lot of people, once this is through with, once this happens or whatever happens in Iraq, well, people are going to want to see the road map with the Palestinians and Israelis. Something has to happen there, according to a lot of people here. They're saying, "If we're going to go through this in Iraq, well, something has to happen with regard to the Palestinians."
In Baghdad, well, people are really just trying to look after themselves and trying to find the best way to protect themselves, protect their children, go around buying errands of what's left, what they can find in Baghdad to survive basically.
Back to you.
KAGAN: Fascinating insights.
We'll be back with more with Rym, Andrea and Barbara and myself in just a moment. Right now a quick break. We're back after this. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAGAN: Welcome back to ON THE STORY. I'm Daryn Kagan in Kuwait City. This is the show where we get to find the inside track from correspondents who have been tracking the big stories all week long.
Andrea, my story is -- my question is to you at the State Department, as I'm out here covering the war front, I'm interested in the politics back in the nation's capital and what appears to be somewhat of a victory for Colin Powell over the last week, that he will control the purse strings of the humanitarian aid in post-war Iraq.
KOPPEL: Well, that's certainly right, Daryn. There was that, I guess what some might call a victory for Secretary Powell.
But there is certainly a heated battle that is still under way between those here at the State Department, including Secretary Powell, and some over in the Pentagon, including the man who Barbara covers, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, over the post-war Iraqi interim government.
And this is something you might say, "How can they figure out who would be in the government, when Saddam Hussein has run a dictatorship? People would be too afraid to come forward in any kind of a prominent role now."
Well, that's part of this debate, because there are some like Donald Rumsfeld who would like to install Iraqi exiles in this interim government. Secretary Powell has said, "That's fine, but you need to include a whole variety of exiles."
And I know, Barbara, that our two buildings have been exchanging memos back and forth as to whether or not this is something that should be settled sooner -- in other words, perhaps even put that interim government in place in southern Iraq which has already been liberated.
What are you hearing?
STARR: Well, Andrea, over here at the Pentagon, of course, there's quite a different view. They are not calling it an interim government. What they are calling it is an Iraqi interim authority. This will work hand in hand, they say, with the U.S. government-backed reconstruction effort. This will be an interim element, an authority, as it were, not a government. As there is a rolling end to the war, there will be a rolling start to the peace, they say.
Certain ministries the Iraqis will be able to continue to run themselves through this interim authority. And then they will gradually work to some sort of government structure.
And I guess the question goes back to Rym, which is, is there an Iraqi element willing to emerge as a sort of federal or national-level government structure in Baghdad? Does that exist? Are those people in waiting? BRAHIMI: Well, I think there are definitely people in waiting. And I think one of the main questions for those people, aside what was mentioned, which is of course the fear with the present regime, of declaring oneself as an alternative, there's also the fear maybe of being seen as pro-American. Nobody wants to be seen as having been placed there by the United States or by a U.S. administration.
And so, that's one of the main problems that a lot of the opposition leaders, even those that are abroad, are facing. There are at least two or three that I know -- I remember having mentioned vaguely when I was still in Baghdad. And those names were acceptable -- one of them was a former foreign minister, another one is a human rights advocate -- by a lot of people.
That said, those people are very worried because they don't want to mix too much with the U.S. opposition that's been encouraged by the United States, because that sort of leads them with a lack of credibility, in a way. They would feel that they've been implanted by the outside, and that's not necessarily a positive thing on the long term in a country like Iraq.
Back to you.
KAGAN: Yes, I'm just going to jump in here, ladies, and just say that it's been fascinating to watch this war unfold from here in Kuwait. Of course, this is the one place, the one country in the Arab world that strongly supports this war.
Kuwaitis, I found, find this as a war of opportunity, one, to protect themselves from what happened 12 years also, but also they're looking forward to the fences falling between these two countries. There are a number of Iraqis living here who are looking forward to having reunions with their family members in Iraq. And also, there's going to be an economic opportunity as those gates fall. A number of Kuwaitis looking to get a piece of the pie, of the redevelopment pie in Iraq, as it changes in a post-Saddam world.
Want to go ahead and thank all three of you.
It is a shorter-than-usual edition of "On the Story," but I hope you found it fascinating nonetheless. We're going to be back every week at this hour. Hopefully a little bit longer next time, but meanwhile my thanks to my colleagues Rym Brahimi, Andrea Koppel and Barbara Starr.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired April 5, 2003 - 10:47 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And welcome to a special abbreviated edition of CNN's ON THE STORY, where our journalists have the inside word on what we covered this week. I'm Daryn Kagan in Kuwait City.
Joining me from Amman, Jordan, is Rym Brahimi. Andrea Koppel is at the State Department, and Barbara Starr is at her usual post at the Pentagon.
And, Barbara, we're going to start with you, bringing us the latest on the military elements of the story. Hello.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Hello to everyone.
Daryn, a couple of headlines from here this morning. Coalition aircraft have struck the home of Ali Hassam al-Majid, better known as Chemical Ali. They have bombed his home in the southern Iraqi city of Basra. He is one of the most wanted. No word yet on whether or not he was there.
And of course, U.S. ground forces have now completed their first probe into Baghdad. They have finished that, but the air commander in the region has now told reporters there will be 24/7 air missions over Baghdad to protect U.S. troops as they continue to move through the city.
Daryn?
KAGAN: Thank you so much.
Let's go ahead and check with Rym Brahimi.
Rym, you have the unfortunate turn of events to get kicked out of Baghdad because of our coverage here on CNN. But you've been doing a fine job covering this story from your post in Amman, Jordan.
What are you hearing from your sources about what's taking place inside of Baghdad at this hour?
RYM BRAHIMI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Daryn, it's a very windy day, as you can see, here in Amman. And a sandstorm blowing behind me, which is why the background is a little but fuzzy.
But definitely, we've been trying to follow events from here. I've been speaking to Baghdad on a regular basis. And what I heard today was, first of all, the overnight bombing gave clear indications to a lot of people, they're hearing bombing much, much closer to the enter of the Iraqi capital. They're also hearing lighter artillery shelling around Baghdad.
Now, that and the fact that they're also listening to international radio stations means that, despite what the Iraqi media is telling them, which is that the U.S. and its allies are lying about having taken the airport, well, people are aware of what's happening. There's also a lot of words to mouth going around. People do know that this is happening in Baghdad.
That said, a lot of people are very worried. They think that this means there will be street-to-street fighting pretty soon. And that's triggered a lot of back and forth movement for the population of Baghdad. Some people trying to leave the Iraqi capital, others trying to move from one neighborhood to another.
Back to you.
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Rym, I'm just curious, you know, one of the big stories yesterday was the video of Saddam not just giving that speech on Iraqi television, but also when he went out for the walkabout in Baghdad. We don't know, of course, when.
What has the reaction been in Jordan and elsewhere in the Arab world to the tape?
BRAHIMI: Well, you know, people really look at it not so much as whether or not Saddam Hussein -- that was Saddam Hussein in the pictures or not, but people do look at it as a fact that the system is still in place.
And people in Jordan, I was just speaking to people just half an hour ago, and it's amazing how, at every level of the population here, people are happy to see that there is some amount of resistance.
And it's not so much about Iraq or Saddam Hussein, as much as it is about the United States. And that's one point that I think is important to make. A lot of people, once this is through with, once this happens or whatever happens in Iraq, well, people are going to want to see the road map with the Palestinians and Israelis. Something has to happen there, according to a lot of people here. They're saying, "If we're going to go through this in Iraq, well, something has to happen with regard to the Palestinians."
In Baghdad, well, people are really just trying to look after themselves and trying to find the best way to protect themselves, protect their children, go around buying errands of what's left, what they can find in Baghdad to survive basically.
Back to you.
KAGAN: Fascinating insights.
We'll be back with more with Rym, Andrea and Barbara and myself in just a moment. Right now a quick break. We're back after this. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KAGAN: Welcome back to ON THE STORY. I'm Daryn Kagan in Kuwait City. This is the show where we get to find the inside track from correspondents who have been tracking the big stories all week long.
Andrea, my story is -- my question is to you at the State Department, as I'm out here covering the war front, I'm interested in the politics back in the nation's capital and what appears to be somewhat of a victory for Colin Powell over the last week, that he will control the purse strings of the humanitarian aid in post-war Iraq.
KOPPEL: Well, that's certainly right, Daryn. There was that, I guess what some might call a victory for Secretary Powell.
But there is certainly a heated battle that is still under way between those here at the State Department, including Secretary Powell, and some over in the Pentagon, including the man who Barbara covers, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, over the post-war Iraqi interim government.
And this is something you might say, "How can they figure out who would be in the government, when Saddam Hussein has run a dictatorship? People would be too afraid to come forward in any kind of a prominent role now."
Well, that's part of this debate, because there are some like Donald Rumsfeld who would like to install Iraqi exiles in this interim government. Secretary Powell has said, "That's fine, but you need to include a whole variety of exiles."
And I know, Barbara, that our two buildings have been exchanging memos back and forth as to whether or not this is something that should be settled sooner -- in other words, perhaps even put that interim government in place in southern Iraq which has already been liberated.
What are you hearing?
STARR: Well, Andrea, over here at the Pentagon, of course, there's quite a different view. They are not calling it an interim government. What they are calling it is an Iraqi interim authority. This will work hand in hand, they say, with the U.S. government-backed reconstruction effort. This will be an interim element, an authority, as it were, not a government. As there is a rolling end to the war, there will be a rolling start to the peace, they say.
Certain ministries the Iraqis will be able to continue to run themselves through this interim authority. And then they will gradually work to some sort of government structure.
And I guess the question goes back to Rym, which is, is there an Iraqi element willing to emerge as a sort of federal or national-level government structure in Baghdad? Does that exist? Are those people in waiting? BRAHIMI: Well, I think there are definitely people in waiting. And I think one of the main questions for those people, aside what was mentioned, which is of course the fear with the present regime, of declaring oneself as an alternative, there's also the fear maybe of being seen as pro-American. Nobody wants to be seen as having been placed there by the United States or by a U.S. administration.
And so, that's one of the main problems that a lot of the opposition leaders, even those that are abroad, are facing. There are at least two or three that I know -- I remember having mentioned vaguely when I was still in Baghdad. And those names were acceptable -- one of them was a former foreign minister, another one is a human rights advocate -- by a lot of people.
That said, those people are very worried because they don't want to mix too much with the U.S. opposition that's been encouraged by the United States, because that sort of leads them with a lack of credibility, in a way. They would feel that they've been implanted by the outside, and that's not necessarily a positive thing on the long term in a country like Iraq.
Back to you.
KAGAN: Yes, I'm just going to jump in here, ladies, and just say that it's been fascinating to watch this war unfold from here in Kuwait. Of course, this is the one place, the one country in the Arab world that strongly supports this war.
Kuwaitis, I found, find this as a war of opportunity, one, to protect themselves from what happened 12 years also, but also they're looking forward to the fences falling between these two countries. There are a number of Iraqis living here who are looking forward to having reunions with their family members in Iraq. And also, there's going to be an economic opportunity as those gates fall. A number of Kuwaitis looking to get a piece of the pie, of the redevelopment pie in Iraq, as it changes in a post-Saddam world.
Want to go ahead and thank all three of you.
It is a shorter-than-usual edition of "On the Story," but I hope you found it fascinating nonetheless. We're going to be back every week at this hour. Hopefully a little bit longer next time, but meanwhile my thanks to my colleagues Rym Brahimi, Andrea Koppel and Barbara Starr.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
