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On the Story

U.S. Citizen Admits Being Part of al Qaeda; U.S. Soldiers Take Deadly Hits in Iraq; Is Hussein Still Alive?

Aired June 21, 2003 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to CNN's ON THE STORY, where our journalists have the inside word on the stories we covered this week. I'm Kelli Arena. ON THE STORY of a U.S. citizen who admits he was part of an al Qaeda team, right here in the USA.
JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: I'm Jane Arraf in Baghdad ON THE STORY of a dangerous peace as U.S. soldiers take some deadly hits this week and wonder what's ahead in this long, hot summer.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: I'm Barbara Starr. Back at the Pentagon and the intelligence agencies, new thinking that target number one in Iraq, Saddam Hussein, may still be alive.

DIANA MURIEL, CNN LONDON CORRESPONDENT: I'm Diana Muriel in London. I'll be back later ON THE STORY of the new Harry Potter book flying off the shelves faster than the Golden Snitch in a game of Quidditch.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Elizabeth Cohen in Atlanta. I'm ON THE STORY of how more people than we thought are feeling depressed and too many are not getting the right treatment.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I'm Suzanne Malveaux ON THE STORY of how the political season is off and running at the White House, with the fundraiser-in-chief in a two-week, $25 million sprint.

We'll be talking about all these stories. Also, coming up at the end of the hour we will listen to the president's weekly radio address released in just a few minutes. Zap or send your questions or comments to onthestory@cnn.com.

Lot's ahead, but first, Jane Arraf in Baghdad on the violent peace.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Isolated attacks of RPG fire, mortar fire, that's usually happening on a daily occurrence.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ARRAF: Now, that makes it sound like a combat zone, which it is, in many respects, according to top military officials. It still remains a very dangerous place for U.S. soldiers. And that's, essentially, what we're seeing that soldiers on a heightened state of alert, particularly here in Baghdad and in areas around to the north and the west.

It's really interesting and disturbing to watch these people because a lot of them have been here for a very long time. Some units had expected to go home a month ago and they've been sent to some of the most dangerous places in Iraq.

There's a feeling of tension here, not to exaggerate, it's not like a war zone throughout the city or throughout the country, but there definitely is a tension. And people are really wondering what's going to happen next.

Now, one person said to me, you're lucky if you make it through the day without something happening to you, or your neighbor, or your car. Even though American officials are telling us it's getting better every day, a lot of people on the street just don't feel that.

If you walk down the street here in Baghdad, for instance, you see burned out buildings, the smell of smoke all over the place in some neighborhood. People lining up for jobs. Much like almost those depression-era photographs.

And worse, the people who are just at home who don't even have the capability to line up for jobs that aren't there; who are just there wondering if it's ever going to get better if they can get out if it's going to be safe in the streets.

Despite that, there are a few bright spots. School started again. The kids are back studying for exams. Some parents won't let their kid go to school. Of the ones who will, they're back there and sometimes in abandoned and restored buildings. And they're taking those exams. So it's definitely an interesting, chaotic, and dangerous time.

COHEN: Jane, you've mentioned that you've been speaking to the troops and you mentioned that some of them expected to be home already. How is the moral among the troops?

ARRAF: It's not so great. I mean, definitely, they're very, very committed. We've been talking to a lot of people and I run into soldiers every day, from reservists who gave up their jobs as brokers on Wall Street, and all sorts of things, to people who have been in the service for years and years.

And they're really committed to the job. It's their duty. They're glad they can serve. Given their choice, certainly, they wouldn't be here just now. And the problem is, with comments like President Bush's, saying that this is going to require danger and sacrifice. It's really hit home, I think, that this is going to be a struggle, building this peace, so soon after the war.

STARR: Jane, do they see the soldiers you talk to on the streets of Baghdad, an end game, so to speak? Do they see any end to all of this? When you talk to the people at the Pentagon, you don't really get a good sense of when they think it will be over, when they think they can go home.

ARRAF: Barbara, that is so scary. Because here what they're seeing is little pieces, their own jobs -- and part of the problem is they're not a lot of seeming coordination. There's certainly a problem with logistics. A problem of communication within the units, certainly.

And when you talk to individual soldiers, they see their small part of it, whether it is standing guard over gasoline lines or whether it's standing guard over the palace or helping to build new schools, they see it in those terms. From their point of view, what they're doing on the ground in immediate terms, they may be seeing some benefit, but they certainly don't see an end game.

What they're told is they're bringing freedom to the country, but that's not the way the Iraqis feel really. For them, freedom doesn't really mean anything unless they have something else --

STARR: Of course, now, the schedule for a new interim or transitional government by the Iraqis has been delayed in Baghdad as well, right?

ARRAF: That's a really interesting thing. Because this was the point, in some respects -- and this was sold to Iraqis as the point. We're going to liberate you. We're going to give you freedom. And better yet, we're going to give you democracy. Not just freedom, but democracy.

Now, here it is, it's not so long from the end of the war, it is about six weeks, but still they had been promised, indisputably, they had been promised they would, quite quickly, be able to run their own affairs. Now it is being made clear to us by the coalition authorities that local elections, for instance, are being discouraged. They feel it is too soon. They feel the Shiite extremists would have too much power. It is really going to be a long way down the road, that democracy.

MALVEAUX: Jane, I'm sure you see a lot of this. There must be a lot of frustration. I mean, we read articles about these soldiers with the fixed bayonets and they're out facing off these protesters and Iraqis just opening up their shirts, daring them to go ahead, to move forward. Do you think the Bush administration is really losing out on its argument, and losing out the support of the Iraqi people?

ARRAF: I think the more this goes on, the more there's a problem with electricity, which there is, the hotter it is, the more time goes on that people don't have jobs or money or any hope that things will get better very soon, they are losing support.

And they're not just losing support. It makes it much more fertile ground for the kind of attacks we're seeing in some places against U.S. soldiers. Not those ones that are organized, to the extent they may be organized, but those random attacks of people who are just really furious who want to see the troops out. There really is a danger here. This is a crucial time, most people think, and they really have to win this struggle for the hearts and minds of Iraqis and they haven't done it yet.

ARENA: Jane what about the economy? People looking for jobs? Lack of money, printed money? How is that coming on? Is there an economic structure in place at all?

ARRAF: There isn't. It's -- I guess when you look at it, you have to remember -- we have to remember -- that it really is reinventing this country. It's not as if they came in and took over functioning ministries. Some of them were looted and burned. Others, they've had to go through this whole de-Ba'athification process, which is a huge story in itself.

So, the economy really isn't moving yet. It takes two things to get that economy going. One is that major public investment, the ministries up and running. The other is private investment. And right now, there really is not the security to encourage people to come in and spend lots of money and invest lots of money. A lot of the shops are still shuttered. Even Iraqi people business people are staying home because they are afraid to open their doors of their businesses, in some neighborhoods, thinking they'll be looted or killed. It's really not quite there yet. It's a huge problem.

STARR: Well, the events playing out in Iraq ripple all the way here to Washington, and of course to the Pentagon. I'm ON THE STORY of how the military views the road ahead, and we're back in two minutes.

ANNOUNCER: Barbara Starr is CNN's Pentagon correspondent. She worked for ABC News and "BusinessWeek." she's a former Washington Bureau Chief of "Jane's Defense Weekly".

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: You do something. You go in and find them and capture them, or kill them. And that's what's going on. It seems to me it's a no-brainer. It's a three-minute decision, the first two are for coffee.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STARR: More tough talk from Donald Rumsfeld about dealing with the attacks on U.S. forces in Iraq. Welcome back. We're ON THE STORY.

What he's talking about, of course, is the fact that since May 1, when the president declared major combat was over, some 50 soldiers have been killed, about 20 of them, just under 20 of them, by hostile action, the rest in accidents.

But these attacks are continuing and it's beginning to pose some challenges. Rumsfeld saying this week that there is some debate within the administration about whether these attacks are organized, whether there is some real effort behind it, or whether they're random killings. They're trying to figure that out and deal with it.

ARRAF: You know, Barbara, one of the things that's happening here is, really, until people know that Saddam is gone, that he's dead, they're going to have to fear he is going to come back. There will still be attacks by people who say we can go on with this, because he's coming back. What is the feeling here? Here, there's not a lot of optimism they'll find him anytime soon. What are they saying about that?

STARR: Well, Jane, that was one of the big stories this week. The intelligence community has a growing feeling, consensus, assessment -- thought process -- whatever you want to call it that they're doing, that he is alive.

They say over the last few weeks that there have been a number of pieces of information that have come to them that are plausible, sightings, interviews with people in custody, that sort of thing, that Saddam Hussein survived the two attacks during the war and that he is alive inside Iraq.

And, of course, the other piece of information underscoring that, General Mahmoud, his national security adviser, the man always seen at his shoulder, closest to him, says he did see Saddam after those attacks, that he was alive.

And the administration is saying of course, that the people are worried about Saddam coming back that that's what's leading to some of these attacks. The loyalists feel he will come back. It's hard to know, I think.

Jane, I don't know what your thought is. About whether the attacks are really because people think Saddam is still out there, the Ba'ath Party loyalist. Or whether the attacks are from Iraqis who simply don't want the U.S. in their country.

ARRAF: We've just had military officials tell us they don't believe they're coordinated on a regional or national level, which is interesting. It might indicate that there isn't any great strategy there. But how hard is it to find Saddam? If they know he's alive, it's a simplistic question, I know, but is there an answer to that?

STARR: Well, you can look at the Afghanistan/Osama bin Laden model. They always tell you it's hard to find one man who wants to remain hidden. There's some differences, though. Osama is probably somewhere in that rugged mountainous territory between Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Saddam, mostly likely, probably somewhere in the north, probably in the Tikriti area, where he's well sheltered by people who are very loyal to him. And the question is, it's a matter of time, when will someone give him up? When will the high-level officials, who may know where he is, start talking in order to save themselves? That's what the Pentagon is hoping. MALVEAUX: And when it comes to Saddam, it may be out of the box, but some conspiracy theorists are saying is there any intelligence that he's actually behind some of these attacks that we've been seeing on U.S. soldiers. Do they give that any credence at all? Or do they say that's just ...

STARR: Well, you know, it is sort of, in a way. Because their concern is, if it's not him directly, it is people who are very loyal to him; people who have the money and finances and organization to perhaps, as Jane is saying, not on a regional level, but a local level in a village or town, pay off loyalists to go attack U.S. soldiers. There is some real concern that there is some of this tribal backing going on.

But I think they really don't know. They're just not sure.

MALVEAUX: So, they don't think they're getting orders from Saddam ...

COHEN: Barbara, what about new warnings about risks in Kenya? Can you tell us about that?

That's a story that emerged late yesterday here in Washington. As we've shown on our air, earlier this morning, the U.S. embassy in Nairobi remains shut down. The Kenyans are now questioning a number of people they have rounded up. There is a warning from the pentagon of -- what they say is a possible, imminent terrorist attack against U.S. interests in Kenya. The U.S. embassy being specifically targeted.

And, of course, the picture we're showing right now of the new U.S. embassy in Nairobi, Kenya, was the one that was rebuilt after the attack in 1998 by the al Qaeda, which destroyed the embassy both in Kenya and Tanzania. A lot of concern about the al Qaeda being very active in East Africa.

ARENA: I'm going to change the topic on you again. We're going to just throw them at you, Barbara. Torie Clarke, a face that we've all gotten used to seeing, announces she's leaving.

STARR: Victoria Clarke, one of Donald Rumsfeld's closest confidants, press secretary, indeed, she left this week, announcing that she was going to be spending some time with her family for personal reasons. The third woman in the Bush administration, Mary Matalin, Karen Hughes.

What I want to know, from Suzanne because she follows the White House, is it news? I'm not sure it is. Is it news when a woman leaves a job? How many thousands of men, including CNN, are house husbands and take care of their children?

MALVEAUX: That's right, Kelli's husband takes care of the kids, as a matter of fact.

You know, it is interesting too, because the Clinton administration, I covered, and there was some general criticism that it was very hard as a working woman, someone with a family, to work in the Clinton administration because of the hours. It was absolutely crazy.

The Bush administration, seen as being more family-friendly, kind of a 9 to 5, for some women at least. But, you know, I mean, it sounds like it's a personal issue. It's a private matter.

STARR: And when people talk about this, what they miss about Torie Clarke, and I suspect Karen Hughes and Mary Matalin as well, they talk about -- oh, high-powered women. They talked about Torie Clarke's bright-colored clothes. While they're talking about that, they are missing the fact that these are people who are some of the most ruthless, effective, Bush administration political operatives ever seen in this town. While they're talking about the fact they're women ...

MALVEAUX: People don't talk about Karl Rove's outfits, either, they don't talk about the colors he wears.

STARR: Exactly. Gray is gray. These are incredibly effective political operatives. They have served the president, they have served his message and his campaign very well. And Torie Clark has said, she will be back. She'll be working again, you know? And I suspect most of these women will.

MALVEAUX: She's a tough cookie.

ARENA: Talking about working women, for those who just saw the little girl coming, my daughter. I'm guilty, I'm sorry. We'll try not to disrupt the show again.

Jane, we want to thank you for joining us from Baghdad. What is ON THE STORY for you today and tomorrow?

ARRAF: Well, today, we're following up things that are sort of themes here, democracy, what's happening with local elections in Baghdad, are people coming out? Security, chasing up the latest reports of attacks. Money, and I got to do something fun, got to go to the zoo and say Uday Saddam Hussein's lions being fed; six lion cubs from two lions that he bought from the circus in 1988. And amazing thing, there are stories all over the place.

ARENA: At least a little bit of a break for you, right?

ARRAF: Absolutely.

ARENA: Well, talk about a successful invasion with military precision? No, we're not talking about the war in Iraq. We're talking about the release of the new Harry Potter book. CNN's Diana Muriel is on Harry's home turf in London. She's back ON THE STORY in two minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I liked the other Harry Potter books and I can't wait to read the next one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MURIEL: There are so many children just like that little girl who are so excited by the new Harry Potter book. This is the fifth one in the series, "Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix." People have been queuing up outside this bookstore in central London since last night, waiting for the bookstore to open at midnight.

The books went on sale one minute after midnight. That's the time they were legally issued. And 1,000 people came into the store, according to the manageress here. They sold over 600 books in the first hour. Not just this particular Harry Potter book, but lots of other Harry Potter books as well, leaving the shelves.

And that was a scene that was repeated all over the country. There were kids all over the U.K, who have been getting involved in all sorts of Harry Potter-related events. There's been a reading here by a Harry Potter look-alike. There's been magic and wizardry lesson, and all sorts of other events for children.

There was a huge celebrity party as well in central London at another bookshop, which was attended by lots of actors and actresses, as well as Sting who was very enthusiastic about the book.

This is what the book looks like in Europe. It is actually different from the copies that you are seeing in the U.S. This is the adult version of the book. This has sold out in London. There's none of these to be had any more. So many adults are buying the book.

STARR: So, Diana, what we want to know, we're five hours behind you here in Washington, what's the bottom line? Did she really kill someone off? Who is no longer with us?

MURIEL: I knew you were going to ask me that question and it's impossible to answer. I shall be lynched, by all the children in this bookstore, if I were to tell you which of the main characters dies. I will say that I've been leafing through the book and it's a very, very good read.

I will say, though, that Harry Potter, who is now 14 in this book, 14 years old, he's very angry. A lot of teenage angst there, getting upset with all sorts people, lots of screaming and shouting like all the teenagers I know. But I couldn't possibly reveal who's has been killed.

STARR: You can e-mail me later.

COHEN: Diana, I heard you mention earlier in one of the other news shows that there's two different versions, an adult cover and child's cover. Why did they decide to do that?

MURIEL: That's right. This is the adult cover, sort of grown-up Phoenix. And this is sort of a cartoon image of a Phoenix, on the children's cover. What was happening, what the publisher found that a lot of people were buying the books, but they were embarrassed to be seen in public reading them. People sitting on trains would hide them under their newspapers. The publisher decided to bring out a black and white cover to hide adult's embarrassment at reading a children's book.

STARR: It's really interesting. What we read here is one of the results of the Harry Potter phenomenon is little boys are reading books again. That's the population that's the most unlikely to pick up a book and read.

MURIEL: That's right. This book has entranced people of all ages, and types, and sexes. And little boys reading this book as well, which is a huge step forward. I mean, any child that can pick up a book, which is of this size and read it, and be enthralled by it, well, that's a good thing in my book. It's encouraging children to read.

The way in which this book -- the book sales are going in the U.K., they're actually discounting the cost of the book making it cheaper to buy in the hope that people will buy other children's book, like perhaps other Harry Potter, but certainly other children's books, when they come into the stores.

MALVEAUX: Do you think there's anything authors or educators can learn about this? It's absolutely amazing. My niece has all four books. They weigh a ton. And as you brought up, the fact that boys are actually reading this. It's like kind of a rock star concert you're in the middle of. Are there other books or other authors, you think, who will mimic the style or even the content to try to draw these kids into reading?

MURIEL: Well, they might do. I should say that the author, J.K. Rowling, and her publisher here in Europe, Bloomsbury, and Scholastic in the United States, are very litigious. If anyone were to try to copy this, I'm sure there would be a lawsuit against them pretty quickly.

I think what's so magical about the books is they create an entire world, with its own language. For example, people are referred to as muggles. There's this game of Quidditch, which is sort a mix sure of rugby and lacrosse. There are all sorts of fantastic characters. And the most amazing things happen. Things that to a child's imagination are perfectly reasonable. Lots of kids I spoke to said that they wish this was real. It makes perfect sense to them. I think that's possibly why it's so magical.

COHEN: J.K. Rowling, the author, has just thin credible story about how she started in this business. Can you tell us a little bit about her?

MURIEL: Well, I'll tell you something which is quite funny. A lot of people in this store think I'm J.K. Rowling. I've been standing here all day and apparently I look quite like her. This is a picture of her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you giving autographs? MURIEL: I've had to disappoint rather a lot of children that I'm not, in fact, J.K. Rowling. I heard she did go to my university and got the same sort of degree in English literature that I did, so there are some similarities.

But J.K. Rowling is an extremely astute woman. She has protected this book very, very carefully. And she has been very careful not to allow any details of the plotlines to escape, although there has been some extracts published in a newspaper in New York. And indeed, there's been a heist here in the U.K., where some copies of the books were stolen. She doesn't give very many interviews. She did give one on national television a couple of nights ago in the U.K.

She's clearly very emotionally engaged with her characters. She said, that when she came downstairs into the kitchen and told her husband that she had killed off one of the main characters, she was in floods of tears. And he told her, but why did you do it then? Just don't do it. But she said, if you're a writer of children's books, you have to be a ruthless killer.

ARENA: All right, J.K -- Diana, thanks you for joining us. Will you have time to curl up with that book later?

MURIEL: I'm sorry, will I have time to -- curl up with the book?

ARENA: To curl up with the book.

MURIEL: I've already started it, I can hardly put it down. Yes, I have hardly put it down since I was given a copy by the manager of the store.

ARENA: Well, thanks again. From make-believe to startling real- life developments in the war on terrorism, with the confession of an al Qaeda link, not on the other side of the world, but in Ohio. Back ON THE STORY in two minutes.

ANNOUNCER: Kelli Arena is CNN's justice correspondent. Earlier, she worked for CNN's Financial News. The New York Festival has awarded her a 2002 Best Correspondent Award.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: To our enemies, let this case send a clear message that the United States will continue to be vigilant against all threats, whether they come from overseas or whether they are home grown.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ARENA: That was Attorney General John Ashcroft, applauding the guilty plea by Ohio trucker Iyman Fares of being part of al Qaeda plots here in the United States.

Welcome back, we're ON THE STORY. This truck driver, according to the government, was gathering information on possibly taking down the Brooklyn Bridge in New York City, gathering information on light aircraft to be used in possible terror attacks, had talked about a plan to take his truck onto an airport tarmac to blow up a sitting jet. And, also, had inquired about equipment that could be used to derail train. So gives you a glimpse into the many strategies that al Qaeda, you know, is thinking about in terms of wreaking havoc here in the United States.

MALVEAUX: And what does intelligence think? I mean, how many of these Iyman Farises are out there? I mean, these guys who act alone, who have loose associations with al Qaeda, are just ready to...

ARENA: They don't know. But there are thousands of people who have gone through the terror training camps. There are -- we were told by sources this week -- several other individuals who have reached plea agreements with the government that remain under seal. So we may be hearing at the appropriate time more stories like the story that we heard with this fellow, who was approached by law enforcement and offered -- well, we can take several routes here, one of them is that you cooperate with this. And they kept it secret for a really long time.

STARR: Why didn't we hear about it earlier?

ARENA: Because according to the government, this needed to be kept secret so that no one else was tipped off. Because if this guy had associates or people here that he was working with, they didn't want anyone to know that he was working with the government. So he was approached in March by law enforcement, according to our sources. That was in March. They approached him, he was willing. They said that there was something about him that made them believe that he was flippable, which means that basically he would cooperate with the government. And they got him on a plane. He flew into Virginia. He reached a plea agreement with the government. And then they announced it just this week.

Now, there was some reporting about this guy, that "Newsweek" had done where they named him. There had been a lot of reporting done by CNN as well about this truck driver who had been fingered by Khalid Shaikh Mohammed. And no one could get his name, and then "Newsweek" came out with his name. And so there was some thinking, maybe, you know, all of a sudden, "Newsweek" was saying the guy disappeared, we couldn't find him. And all of a sudden, you know, this is announced.

But there's also like one agent said to me, there's only so much milk you can get from a cow, and they were pretty much done with him in terms of the information that he had to offer.

COHEN: Kelli, you mentioned plans to blow up the Brooklyn Bridge, plans to blow up a plane on the tarmac. Were these plans in their infancy or how far developed were they?

ARENA: Well, they were just actually -- he was just scouting. He was surveilling. Actually, the plan involving the Brooklyn Bridge was to cut the cables to bring it down. It didn't involve explosives at all. And he had, according to the government documents, sent a message back to al Qaeda leaders saying it wasn't going to work. It was a no-go, that the security around the bridge was just too tight, and that, you know, with the type of equipment he was looking at -- gas cutters they were looking to use, you know, those (UNINTELLIGIBLE) torches, that it just would not work, it was not a feasible plan.

But the Brooklyn Bridge has come up before in intelligence documents. That is something -- it's just such a monument, it is such a symbol, and that is -- that seems to be the al Qaeda MO, is to go after, you know, symbols of wealth and power here in the United States.

MALVEAUX: And this is is a success story, but I wonder, how many other plots there are that might be interrupted? And why aren't we seeing more of this? I know that some people think, well, maybe these sleeper cells are just kind of falling asleep, they get comfortable in the United States.

ARENA: Well, you know, hello, exactly. I had a conversation with several agents this week about that very concept, about that there are people who come to the United States, possibly with orders, or even of their own volition, and say I'm going to help the jihad cause. And once they get here, they get jobs, they make friends, sometimes they get married, they have lovers. They get comfortable here in the United States, they lose that commitment to jihad and they just -- you know, as I said, sleeper cells just fall asleep. They're just never to be reactivated again.

But -- but, there's also the element of what they don't know and who they don't know about, and you repeatedly hear -- you heard that again from FBI Director Robert Mueller this week, we don't know, we don't know, and that's a concern.

COHEN: Kelli, thank you for that news. It's a little bit depressing. And actually, we'll be talking more about depression, but this time the clinical kind. When we come back, it turns out that more Americans are not just worried or sad but seriously depressed. We're back ON THE STORY in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COHEN: We're ON THE STORY. Question of the week is, who's depressed? The answer is it's about one out of every six Americans is depressed, according to a new study that just came out. That's more people than had previously been thought, and their treatment is falling short.

Welcome back. We're ON THE STORY. This is a new study that came out of Harvard University this week. And what was sort of shocking about it, is not just the number that one out of six Americans is depressed, but even worse, four out of five of them are not getting adequate treatment. That's four out of five. Now, it may be because the doctor's not giving the right drug dosage, or maybe that the patient says, oh, forget this doctor, I'm going to go to the drug store and sort of get something over the counter, and that's not considered adequate treatment. But it's sort of a mixed bag, because in a way, people are facing their depression more, they are owning up to it and they are actually going to the doctor, but when they go to the doctor, they're not always getting the right treatment.

MALVEAUX: Elizabeth, why are we seeing, again, with these studies that women seem to be much more depressed than men? Is that really accurate, or is it just women are more likely to seek treatment or it's more acceptable to go to the doctor if you're having a problem?

COHEN: You know, Suzanne, that's a great question. And I think you've gotten to one of the problems in depression, is that you don't know -- you don't know why you see the numbers. Is it because -- as you said, women just feel more comfortable saying, you know what, I need help? Men are notorious for not coming forward in that way, and saying they need help. So it's very difficult to tease that out, and also for men, when they have emotional problem, sometimes it doesn't come out as depression, it comes out as violence, it comes out as anger. So there may be depression, but it may be masked and so it gets diagnosed as something else.

STARR: Now, Elizabeth, does this study really get to the point of true clinical depression as opposed to the notion of just feeling blue?

COHEN: Yes, this study does talk about that, and that one out of six number, that one out of six Americans is clinically depressed, that means truly depressed. That means that they're not just sort of feeling sad from time to time. And that's the big difference. Many people feel sad from time to time. Clinical depression is where you have five or more symptoms of depression every day for at least two weeks. And those symptoms are things like you're not eating enough or you're eating too much. You're not finding pleasure in activities that used to bring you pleasure. You're sleeping way too much or way too little, things like that. But it has to be consistent and it has to last for a relatively long period of time.

STARR: Is there any sense of why this happens -- why, perhaps, the increase of Americans over the years being depressed? Is it something in society, or is it just -- does it just happen?

COHEN: You know, it's really hard to tease out. And this sort of relates to what Suzanne was asking about before. Because you don't know. It's more OK now to say that you're depressed. Many celebrities, in fact, have gone on television saying, I suffered from depression and I'm going to talk about that now. And so that makes more sort of ordinary Americans say, well, then I'm going to talk about my depression too. So when you see the increase, it's never completely clear whether that's a true increase or just that people are willing to come out about it now, and go seek help.

ARENA: Now, Elizabeth, in terms of the treatment, what blame do doctors take here, in terms not giving the right treatment? You said before, people are just saying, well, I'm not going to go to the doctor or deal with it, but are doctors actually at fault here as well? COHEN: Yes. I've heard some doctors criticize other doctors, especially internists who have to deal with managed care. I mean, if you are an internist these days, you have got to see your patients in a matter of minutes, and you're seeing lots of different problems all at one time, so you can imagine you see someone with strep throat for five minutes, and someone with back pain for seven minutes. And then a depressed person walks in. A, you don't really have the time to deal with them as perhaps you should, and B, you don't always have the training to deal with them. And so sometimes those patients really get lost in the shuffle, when perhaps they really need to be seeing psychologists or psychiatrists.

Now, some internists are well trained and are well supervised, but too often they do get lost in the shuffle.

MALVEAUX: Well, thank you, Elizabeth.

Even President Bush had medical problems this week, a jogger's torn muscle. But politically, the president was looking strong. I'm back ON THE STORY in a moment.

ANNOUNCER: Suzanne Malveaux is a CNN White House correspondent. She joined CNN in 2002 after reporting from Washington, Chicago and Boston. With time and energy left over from the White House beat, she competes in triathlons.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: The political season will come in its own time. Right now, this administration is focused on the people's business.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: President Bush this week, kicking off his $25 million fund-raising push this week, and walking that line between president and candidate.

Welcome back. We're ON THE STORY. Absolutely amazing, yesterday. He was in Greensboro, Georgia. He raised more than $2 million. Tuesday, they kicked off the campaign in Washington. We're talking about the goal here, $20 million by the end of the month, $200 million during the primary, for the primary reelection campaign.

And what this is all about is simply -- the purpose here is to set the agenda for the president, to shape the agenda, to talk about his own issues and to defend himself against all nine of the Democratic hopefuls that he'll be going up against.

But it is clearly meant to send a strong message that he is in the dominant position here. It is to intimidate, and that he has the war chest, really, to shape how this reelection campaign is going to go.

ARENA: How is this going to square with voters? You have the economy, very shaky, you know, the domestic agenda, just really nonexistent. Because of Iraq and other issues. How does this fund- raiser in chief role square with this, you know, "I'm here to create more jobs" role?

MALVEAUX: Right. And there are some critics this week, actually Democratic candidates, who were saying, well, this seems to be subverting the democratic process. Why is the president spending all of his time here raising this kind of money? Well, White House spokesman Ari Fleischer came back and he said, well, look, you know, this is the American people expressing themselves, showing their support for the president.

But at the same time, the critics come back and they say, well, you know, not everybody can afford a $2,000 a plate dinner on Tuesday, which was hot dogs, hamburgers and nachos, so that's what they come back with. But it's a valid point. People are asking, why is the president spending his time doing this? But they want to get an early start in it. The president's weekly radio address, just in this moment.

(BEGIN AUDIOTAPE)

BUSH: Good morning.

Ten weeks have passed since the fall of the Iraqi regime. Since that time, our work in Iraq has focused on two goals: First, we are working to make Iraq secure for its citizens and our military. Second, we are working to improve the lives of the Iraqi people after three decades of tyranny and oppression.

Making Iraq secure is vitally important for both Iraqi citizens and our own forces. The men and women of our military face a continuing risk of danger and sacrifice in Iraq. Dangerous pockets of the old regime remain loyal to it, and they, along with their terrorist allies, are behind deadly attacks designed to kill and intimidate coalition forces and innocent Iraqis.

Our military is acting decisively against these threats. In Operation Peninsula Strike and Operation Desert Scorpion, our forces have targeted Baath Party loyalists and terrorist organizations. In Baghdad, more than 28,000 American combat forces and military police are enforcing the law and arresting criminals. We are also training Iraqis to begin policing their own cities.

As we establish order and justice in Iraq, we also continue to pursue Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction. Military and intelligence officials are interviewing scientists with knowledge of Saddam Hussein's weapons programs and are pouring over hundreds of thousands of documents.

For more than a decade, Saddam Hussein went to great lengths to hide his weapons from the world. And in the regime's final days, documents and suspected weapons sites were looted and burned. Yet all who know the dictator's history agree that he possessed chemical and biological weapons and that he used chemical weapons in the past. The intelligence services of many nations concluded that he had illegal weapons, and the regime refused to provide evidence they had been destroyed. We are determined to discover the true extent of Saddam Hussein's weapons programs, no matter how long it takes.

To date, the United States has provided Iraq with more than $700 million in humanitarian and reconstruction assistance. This month the World Food Programme is distributing food rations to about 25 million Iraqis. America and our partners are also repairing water treatment plants to provide more clean water.

Each week, through our efforts, more electricity is made available to more people throughout the country. And after years of neglect, Iraq's 4.2 million children under the age of five are receiving vaccinations against diseases such as polio, measles and tuberculosis.

Iraq's long-term success also depends on economic development. Our administrator in Iraq has announced a $100 million fund to pay Iraqis to repair buildings and utilities. Billions of dollars taken from Iraqis by a corrupt regime have been recovered and will be spent on reconstruction projects.

Iraq is already in the process of selling oil on world markets, which will bring in much-needed revenue to help the Iraqi people. This week the port at Umm Qasr opened to commercial traffic, and Baghdad International Airport is expected to reopen next month.

For the first time in over a decade, Iraq will soon be open to the world. And the influence of progress in Iraq will be felt throughout the Middle East. Over time, a free government in Iraq will demonstrate that liberty can flourish in that region. American service members continue to risk their lives to ensure the liberation of Iraq. I'm grateful for their service, and so are the Iraqi people. Many Iraqis are experiencing the jobs and responsibilities of freedom for the first time in their lives. And they are unafraid. As one Iraqi man said, "We are ready to rebuild our country."

For the people of free Iraq, the road ahead holds great challenges. Yet at every turn, they will have friendship and support from the United States of America.

Thank you for listening.

(END AUDIOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: It's President Bush in his weekly radio address. And you'll notice, you can hear it, that this is an administration that is on the defensive right now. A lot of issues that are coming to light about weapons of mass destruction. You also have, as you had mentioned before, the number of U.S. soldiers being killed in Iraq, after combat, major combat is over.

I mean, clearly, the question is here, is what is going to stick with this administration? I mean, what is going to hurt them? Political operatives are looking at all of these things, and they realize the president has to address these things. He has to address them now. The whole issue of weapons of mass destruction and these intelligence hearings that are taking place. They have to convey to the American people that they are confident, that they're going to find these weapons, and also that they're working on it at the same time.

The other thing as well, it's probably one of the worst nightmares for the Bush administration, is this idea that you have the U.S. soldiers who are being killed after major combat. This was the one reason why Bush administration officials said we're not going to declare that this war is over. We're going to say major combat is over, but if there are other U.S. casualties, we don't want the voters to come back around and say, well, you know, what happened? You said the war was over. Why are we seeing Americans being killed?

COHEN: Suzanne, do you get a feeling that there is a game plan for what will happen if they never find weapons of mass destruction, sort of how the administration will explain it?

MALVEAUX: I think the administration is already explaining it, to a certain extent. They're already saying, well, here's where the weapons could be, here's where they might have disappeared; eventually we'll find them.

But I think what's happening, and especially when you look at the political aspect of it, is they're emphasizing different things. They're saying, well, we got rid of Saddam Hussein, we got rid of this terrible regime. The Iraqis are thankful. We're working on our reconstruction.

I think what the administration is looking at is what are voters -- what do voters care about? And, so far, if you look at the polls, weapons of mass destruction is not sticking. It is not resonating with the voters.

STARR: That's very ...

MALVEAUX: So they don't have to go that far.

STARR: That's a very interesting point. The -- what will stick as it gets closer to the election time? The national security issues or the economy issues? Where will the Democrats get some traction?

MALVEAUX: And I think you bring up a great point, because I think they realize that when you look at the economy, that that is the one thing that Americans are focusing on right now. Are you better off then you were before? And even last night in his speech, he was -- he almost had this mantra where he says, well, two and a half years ago I inherited this recession in my administration, two and a half years ago, the Army, the Navy, the military was underfunded. Well, here's where we are now. They're already setting up the comparisons.

And also, the Bush administration also, in part, trying to take the credit for what we are seeing -- some weak economic indicators, what we're seeing, that things may be taking a turn for the better.

But yes, they are very much aware that the economy, really, is going to be the number one concern.

STARR: And the budget deficit. I mean, they...

MALVEAUX: Absolutely.

ARENA: Right. We had that pounded into our heads for so long that budget deficit's bad, budget deficit's bad, and then all of a sudden you have the tax cut and you heard, oh, the budget deficit is swelling. But even the tax cut, which was supposed to be a move to save the economy, sort of back-fired on them, because of, you know, the child tax credit.

MALVEAUX: Absolutely. And the next 12 months are really critical for the Bush administration. Whether or not they're actually going to see those jobs being created that the president is promising. They talk about job creation. They say, you know, this huge tax cut. And that it's a real gamble. They believe in it, but it is a real gamble and they'll have to wait and see in about 12 months or so what actually happens with that.

STARR: Well, thanks to all of my colleagues, and thank you for watching ON THE STORY. We'll be back next week. Still ahead -- "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS," focusing this week on Harrison Ford and Harry Potter.

At 12:00 noon Eastern, 9:00 a.m. Pacific time, "CNN LIVE SATURDAY." And at 1:00 p.m. Eastern, 10:00 a.m. Pacific, CNN's "IN THE MONEY" follows the money flowing to Hamas and other groups in the Middle East.

Coming up at the top of the hour, a news alert. And we'll be back next week.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com




Take Deadly Hits in Iraq; Is Hussein Still Alive?>


Aired June 21, 2003 - 10:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to CNN's ON THE STORY, where our journalists have the inside word on the stories we covered this week. I'm Kelli Arena. ON THE STORY of a U.S. citizen who admits he was part of an al Qaeda team, right here in the USA.
JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: I'm Jane Arraf in Baghdad ON THE STORY of a dangerous peace as U.S. soldiers take some deadly hits this week and wonder what's ahead in this long, hot summer.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: I'm Barbara Starr. Back at the Pentagon and the intelligence agencies, new thinking that target number one in Iraq, Saddam Hussein, may still be alive.

DIANA MURIEL, CNN LONDON CORRESPONDENT: I'm Diana Muriel in London. I'll be back later ON THE STORY of the new Harry Potter book flying off the shelves faster than the Golden Snitch in a game of Quidditch.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Elizabeth Cohen in Atlanta. I'm ON THE STORY of how more people than we thought are feeling depressed and too many are not getting the right treatment.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I'm Suzanne Malveaux ON THE STORY of how the political season is off and running at the White House, with the fundraiser-in-chief in a two-week, $25 million sprint.

We'll be talking about all these stories. Also, coming up at the end of the hour we will listen to the president's weekly radio address released in just a few minutes. Zap or send your questions or comments to onthestory@cnn.com.

Lot's ahead, but first, Jane Arraf in Baghdad on the violent peace.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Isolated attacks of RPG fire, mortar fire, that's usually happening on a daily occurrence.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ARRAF: Now, that makes it sound like a combat zone, which it is, in many respects, according to top military officials. It still remains a very dangerous place for U.S. soldiers. And that's, essentially, what we're seeing that soldiers on a heightened state of alert, particularly here in Baghdad and in areas around to the north and the west.

It's really interesting and disturbing to watch these people because a lot of them have been here for a very long time. Some units had expected to go home a month ago and they've been sent to some of the most dangerous places in Iraq.

There's a feeling of tension here, not to exaggerate, it's not like a war zone throughout the city or throughout the country, but there definitely is a tension. And people are really wondering what's going to happen next.

Now, one person said to me, you're lucky if you make it through the day without something happening to you, or your neighbor, or your car. Even though American officials are telling us it's getting better every day, a lot of people on the street just don't feel that.

If you walk down the street here in Baghdad, for instance, you see burned out buildings, the smell of smoke all over the place in some neighborhood. People lining up for jobs. Much like almost those depression-era photographs.

And worse, the people who are just at home who don't even have the capability to line up for jobs that aren't there; who are just there wondering if it's ever going to get better if they can get out if it's going to be safe in the streets.

Despite that, there are a few bright spots. School started again. The kids are back studying for exams. Some parents won't let their kid go to school. Of the ones who will, they're back there and sometimes in abandoned and restored buildings. And they're taking those exams. So it's definitely an interesting, chaotic, and dangerous time.

COHEN: Jane, you've mentioned that you've been speaking to the troops and you mentioned that some of them expected to be home already. How is the moral among the troops?

ARRAF: It's not so great. I mean, definitely, they're very, very committed. We've been talking to a lot of people and I run into soldiers every day, from reservists who gave up their jobs as brokers on Wall Street, and all sorts of things, to people who have been in the service for years and years.

And they're really committed to the job. It's their duty. They're glad they can serve. Given their choice, certainly, they wouldn't be here just now. And the problem is, with comments like President Bush's, saying that this is going to require danger and sacrifice. It's really hit home, I think, that this is going to be a struggle, building this peace, so soon after the war.

STARR: Jane, do they see the soldiers you talk to on the streets of Baghdad, an end game, so to speak? Do they see any end to all of this? When you talk to the people at the Pentagon, you don't really get a good sense of when they think it will be over, when they think they can go home.

ARRAF: Barbara, that is so scary. Because here what they're seeing is little pieces, their own jobs -- and part of the problem is they're not a lot of seeming coordination. There's certainly a problem with logistics. A problem of communication within the units, certainly.

And when you talk to individual soldiers, they see their small part of it, whether it is standing guard over gasoline lines or whether it's standing guard over the palace or helping to build new schools, they see it in those terms. From their point of view, what they're doing on the ground in immediate terms, they may be seeing some benefit, but they certainly don't see an end game.

What they're told is they're bringing freedom to the country, but that's not the way the Iraqis feel really. For them, freedom doesn't really mean anything unless they have something else --

STARR: Of course, now, the schedule for a new interim or transitional government by the Iraqis has been delayed in Baghdad as well, right?

ARRAF: That's a really interesting thing. Because this was the point, in some respects -- and this was sold to Iraqis as the point. We're going to liberate you. We're going to give you freedom. And better yet, we're going to give you democracy. Not just freedom, but democracy.

Now, here it is, it's not so long from the end of the war, it is about six weeks, but still they had been promised, indisputably, they had been promised they would, quite quickly, be able to run their own affairs. Now it is being made clear to us by the coalition authorities that local elections, for instance, are being discouraged. They feel it is too soon. They feel the Shiite extremists would have too much power. It is really going to be a long way down the road, that democracy.

MALVEAUX: Jane, I'm sure you see a lot of this. There must be a lot of frustration. I mean, we read articles about these soldiers with the fixed bayonets and they're out facing off these protesters and Iraqis just opening up their shirts, daring them to go ahead, to move forward. Do you think the Bush administration is really losing out on its argument, and losing out the support of the Iraqi people?

ARRAF: I think the more this goes on, the more there's a problem with electricity, which there is, the hotter it is, the more time goes on that people don't have jobs or money or any hope that things will get better very soon, they are losing support.

And they're not just losing support. It makes it much more fertile ground for the kind of attacks we're seeing in some places against U.S. soldiers. Not those ones that are organized, to the extent they may be organized, but those random attacks of people who are just really furious who want to see the troops out. There really is a danger here. This is a crucial time, most people think, and they really have to win this struggle for the hearts and minds of Iraqis and they haven't done it yet.

ARENA: Jane what about the economy? People looking for jobs? Lack of money, printed money? How is that coming on? Is there an economic structure in place at all?

ARRAF: There isn't. It's -- I guess when you look at it, you have to remember -- we have to remember -- that it really is reinventing this country. It's not as if they came in and took over functioning ministries. Some of them were looted and burned. Others, they've had to go through this whole de-Ba'athification process, which is a huge story in itself.

So, the economy really isn't moving yet. It takes two things to get that economy going. One is that major public investment, the ministries up and running. The other is private investment. And right now, there really is not the security to encourage people to come in and spend lots of money and invest lots of money. A lot of the shops are still shuttered. Even Iraqi people business people are staying home because they are afraid to open their doors of their businesses, in some neighborhoods, thinking they'll be looted or killed. It's really not quite there yet. It's a huge problem.

STARR: Well, the events playing out in Iraq ripple all the way here to Washington, and of course to the Pentagon. I'm ON THE STORY of how the military views the road ahead, and we're back in two minutes.

ANNOUNCER: Barbara Starr is CNN's Pentagon correspondent. She worked for ABC News and "BusinessWeek." she's a former Washington Bureau Chief of "Jane's Defense Weekly".

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: You do something. You go in and find them and capture them, or kill them. And that's what's going on. It seems to me it's a no-brainer. It's a three-minute decision, the first two are for coffee.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STARR: More tough talk from Donald Rumsfeld about dealing with the attacks on U.S. forces in Iraq. Welcome back. We're ON THE STORY.

What he's talking about, of course, is the fact that since May 1, when the president declared major combat was over, some 50 soldiers have been killed, about 20 of them, just under 20 of them, by hostile action, the rest in accidents.

But these attacks are continuing and it's beginning to pose some challenges. Rumsfeld saying this week that there is some debate within the administration about whether these attacks are organized, whether there is some real effort behind it, or whether they're random killings. They're trying to figure that out and deal with it.

ARRAF: You know, Barbara, one of the things that's happening here is, really, until people know that Saddam is gone, that he's dead, they're going to have to fear he is going to come back. There will still be attacks by people who say we can go on with this, because he's coming back. What is the feeling here? Here, there's not a lot of optimism they'll find him anytime soon. What are they saying about that?

STARR: Well, Jane, that was one of the big stories this week. The intelligence community has a growing feeling, consensus, assessment -- thought process -- whatever you want to call it that they're doing, that he is alive.

They say over the last few weeks that there have been a number of pieces of information that have come to them that are plausible, sightings, interviews with people in custody, that sort of thing, that Saddam Hussein survived the two attacks during the war and that he is alive inside Iraq.

And, of course, the other piece of information underscoring that, General Mahmoud, his national security adviser, the man always seen at his shoulder, closest to him, says he did see Saddam after those attacks, that he was alive.

And the administration is saying of course, that the people are worried about Saddam coming back that that's what's leading to some of these attacks. The loyalists feel he will come back. It's hard to know, I think.

Jane, I don't know what your thought is. About whether the attacks are really because people think Saddam is still out there, the Ba'ath Party loyalist. Or whether the attacks are from Iraqis who simply don't want the U.S. in their country.

ARRAF: We've just had military officials tell us they don't believe they're coordinated on a regional or national level, which is interesting. It might indicate that there isn't any great strategy there. But how hard is it to find Saddam? If they know he's alive, it's a simplistic question, I know, but is there an answer to that?

STARR: Well, you can look at the Afghanistan/Osama bin Laden model. They always tell you it's hard to find one man who wants to remain hidden. There's some differences, though. Osama is probably somewhere in that rugged mountainous territory between Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Saddam, mostly likely, probably somewhere in the north, probably in the Tikriti area, where he's well sheltered by people who are very loyal to him. And the question is, it's a matter of time, when will someone give him up? When will the high-level officials, who may know where he is, start talking in order to save themselves? That's what the Pentagon is hoping. MALVEAUX: And when it comes to Saddam, it may be out of the box, but some conspiracy theorists are saying is there any intelligence that he's actually behind some of these attacks that we've been seeing on U.S. soldiers. Do they give that any credence at all? Or do they say that's just ...

STARR: Well, you know, it is sort of, in a way. Because their concern is, if it's not him directly, it is people who are very loyal to him; people who have the money and finances and organization to perhaps, as Jane is saying, not on a regional level, but a local level in a village or town, pay off loyalists to go attack U.S. soldiers. There is some real concern that there is some of this tribal backing going on.

But I think they really don't know. They're just not sure.

MALVEAUX: So, they don't think they're getting orders from Saddam ...

COHEN: Barbara, what about new warnings about risks in Kenya? Can you tell us about that?

That's a story that emerged late yesterday here in Washington. As we've shown on our air, earlier this morning, the U.S. embassy in Nairobi remains shut down. The Kenyans are now questioning a number of people they have rounded up. There is a warning from the pentagon of -- what they say is a possible, imminent terrorist attack against U.S. interests in Kenya. The U.S. embassy being specifically targeted.

And, of course, the picture we're showing right now of the new U.S. embassy in Nairobi, Kenya, was the one that was rebuilt after the attack in 1998 by the al Qaeda, which destroyed the embassy both in Kenya and Tanzania. A lot of concern about the al Qaeda being very active in East Africa.

ARENA: I'm going to change the topic on you again. We're going to just throw them at you, Barbara. Torie Clarke, a face that we've all gotten used to seeing, announces she's leaving.

STARR: Victoria Clarke, one of Donald Rumsfeld's closest confidants, press secretary, indeed, she left this week, announcing that she was going to be spending some time with her family for personal reasons. The third woman in the Bush administration, Mary Matalin, Karen Hughes.

What I want to know, from Suzanne because she follows the White House, is it news? I'm not sure it is. Is it news when a woman leaves a job? How many thousands of men, including CNN, are house husbands and take care of their children?

MALVEAUX: That's right, Kelli's husband takes care of the kids, as a matter of fact.

You know, it is interesting too, because the Clinton administration, I covered, and there was some general criticism that it was very hard as a working woman, someone with a family, to work in the Clinton administration because of the hours. It was absolutely crazy.

The Bush administration, seen as being more family-friendly, kind of a 9 to 5, for some women at least. But, you know, I mean, it sounds like it's a personal issue. It's a private matter.

STARR: And when people talk about this, what they miss about Torie Clarke, and I suspect Karen Hughes and Mary Matalin as well, they talk about -- oh, high-powered women. They talked about Torie Clarke's bright-colored clothes. While they're talking about that, they are missing the fact that these are people who are some of the most ruthless, effective, Bush administration political operatives ever seen in this town. While they're talking about the fact they're women ...

MALVEAUX: People don't talk about Karl Rove's outfits, either, they don't talk about the colors he wears.

STARR: Exactly. Gray is gray. These are incredibly effective political operatives. They have served the president, they have served his message and his campaign very well. And Torie Clark has said, she will be back. She'll be working again, you know? And I suspect most of these women will.

MALVEAUX: She's a tough cookie.

ARENA: Talking about working women, for those who just saw the little girl coming, my daughter. I'm guilty, I'm sorry. We'll try not to disrupt the show again.

Jane, we want to thank you for joining us from Baghdad. What is ON THE STORY for you today and tomorrow?

ARRAF: Well, today, we're following up things that are sort of themes here, democracy, what's happening with local elections in Baghdad, are people coming out? Security, chasing up the latest reports of attacks. Money, and I got to do something fun, got to go to the zoo and say Uday Saddam Hussein's lions being fed; six lion cubs from two lions that he bought from the circus in 1988. And amazing thing, there are stories all over the place.

ARENA: At least a little bit of a break for you, right?

ARRAF: Absolutely.

ARENA: Well, talk about a successful invasion with military precision? No, we're not talking about the war in Iraq. We're talking about the release of the new Harry Potter book. CNN's Diana Muriel is on Harry's home turf in London. She's back ON THE STORY in two minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I liked the other Harry Potter books and I can't wait to read the next one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MURIEL: There are so many children just like that little girl who are so excited by the new Harry Potter book. This is the fifth one in the series, "Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix." People have been queuing up outside this bookstore in central London since last night, waiting for the bookstore to open at midnight.

The books went on sale one minute after midnight. That's the time they were legally issued. And 1,000 people came into the store, according to the manageress here. They sold over 600 books in the first hour. Not just this particular Harry Potter book, but lots of other Harry Potter books as well, leaving the shelves.

And that was a scene that was repeated all over the country. There were kids all over the U.K, who have been getting involved in all sorts of Harry Potter-related events. There's been a reading here by a Harry Potter look-alike. There's been magic and wizardry lesson, and all sorts of other events for children.

There was a huge celebrity party as well in central London at another bookshop, which was attended by lots of actors and actresses, as well as Sting who was very enthusiastic about the book.

This is what the book looks like in Europe. It is actually different from the copies that you are seeing in the U.S. This is the adult version of the book. This has sold out in London. There's none of these to be had any more. So many adults are buying the book.

STARR: So, Diana, what we want to know, we're five hours behind you here in Washington, what's the bottom line? Did she really kill someone off? Who is no longer with us?

MURIEL: I knew you were going to ask me that question and it's impossible to answer. I shall be lynched, by all the children in this bookstore, if I were to tell you which of the main characters dies. I will say that I've been leafing through the book and it's a very, very good read.

I will say, though, that Harry Potter, who is now 14 in this book, 14 years old, he's very angry. A lot of teenage angst there, getting upset with all sorts people, lots of screaming and shouting like all the teenagers I know. But I couldn't possibly reveal who's has been killed.

STARR: You can e-mail me later.

COHEN: Diana, I heard you mention earlier in one of the other news shows that there's two different versions, an adult cover and child's cover. Why did they decide to do that?

MURIEL: That's right. This is the adult cover, sort of grown-up Phoenix. And this is sort of a cartoon image of a Phoenix, on the children's cover. What was happening, what the publisher found that a lot of people were buying the books, but they were embarrassed to be seen in public reading them. People sitting on trains would hide them under their newspapers. The publisher decided to bring out a black and white cover to hide adult's embarrassment at reading a children's book.

STARR: It's really interesting. What we read here is one of the results of the Harry Potter phenomenon is little boys are reading books again. That's the population that's the most unlikely to pick up a book and read.

MURIEL: That's right. This book has entranced people of all ages, and types, and sexes. And little boys reading this book as well, which is a huge step forward. I mean, any child that can pick up a book, which is of this size and read it, and be enthralled by it, well, that's a good thing in my book. It's encouraging children to read.

The way in which this book -- the book sales are going in the U.K., they're actually discounting the cost of the book making it cheaper to buy in the hope that people will buy other children's book, like perhaps other Harry Potter, but certainly other children's books, when they come into the stores.

MALVEAUX: Do you think there's anything authors or educators can learn about this? It's absolutely amazing. My niece has all four books. They weigh a ton. And as you brought up, the fact that boys are actually reading this. It's like kind of a rock star concert you're in the middle of. Are there other books or other authors, you think, who will mimic the style or even the content to try to draw these kids into reading?

MURIEL: Well, they might do. I should say that the author, J.K. Rowling, and her publisher here in Europe, Bloomsbury, and Scholastic in the United States, are very litigious. If anyone were to try to copy this, I'm sure there would be a lawsuit against them pretty quickly.

I think what's so magical about the books is they create an entire world, with its own language. For example, people are referred to as muggles. There's this game of Quidditch, which is sort a mix sure of rugby and lacrosse. There are all sorts of fantastic characters. And the most amazing things happen. Things that to a child's imagination are perfectly reasonable. Lots of kids I spoke to said that they wish this was real. It makes perfect sense to them. I think that's possibly why it's so magical.

COHEN: J.K. Rowling, the author, has just thin credible story about how she started in this business. Can you tell us a little bit about her?

MURIEL: Well, I'll tell you something which is quite funny. A lot of people in this store think I'm J.K. Rowling. I've been standing here all day and apparently I look quite like her. This is a picture of her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you giving autographs? MURIEL: I've had to disappoint rather a lot of children that I'm not, in fact, J.K. Rowling. I heard she did go to my university and got the same sort of degree in English literature that I did, so there are some similarities.

But J.K. Rowling is an extremely astute woman. She has protected this book very, very carefully. And she has been very careful not to allow any details of the plotlines to escape, although there has been some extracts published in a newspaper in New York. And indeed, there's been a heist here in the U.K., where some copies of the books were stolen. She doesn't give very many interviews. She did give one on national television a couple of nights ago in the U.K.

She's clearly very emotionally engaged with her characters. She said, that when she came downstairs into the kitchen and told her husband that she had killed off one of the main characters, she was in floods of tears. And he told her, but why did you do it then? Just don't do it. But she said, if you're a writer of children's books, you have to be a ruthless killer.

ARENA: All right, J.K -- Diana, thanks you for joining us. Will you have time to curl up with that book later?

MURIEL: I'm sorry, will I have time to -- curl up with the book?

ARENA: To curl up with the book.

MURIEL: I've already started it, I can hardly put it down. Yes, I have hardly put it down since I was given a copy by the manager of the store.

ARENA: Well, thanks again. From make-believe to startling real- life developments in the war on terrorism, with the confession of an al Qaeda link, not on the other side of the world, but in Ohio. Back ON THE STORY in two minutes.

ANNOUNCER: Kelli Arena is CNN's justice correspondent. Earlier, she worked for CNN's Financial News. The New York Festival has awarded her a 2002 Best Correspondent Award.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: To our enemies, let this case send a clear message that the United States will continue to be vigilant against all threats, whether they come from overseas or whether they are home grown.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ARENA: That was Attorney General John Ashcroft, applauding the guilty plea by Ohio trucker Iyman Fares of being part of al Qaeda plots here in the United States.

Welcome back, we're ON THE STORY. This truck driver, according to the government, was gathering information on possibly taking down the Brooklyn Bridge in New York City, gathering information on light aircraft to be used in possible terror attacks, had talked about a plan to take his truck onto an airport tarmac to blow up a sitting jet. And, also, had inquired about equipment that could be used to derail train. So gives you a glimpse into the many strategies that al Qaeda, you know, is thinking about in terms of wreaking havoc here in the United States.

MALVEAUX: And what does intelligence think? I mean, how many of these Iyman Farises are out there? I mean, these guys who act alone, who have loose associations with al Qaeda, are just ready to...

ARENA: They don't know. But there are thousands of people who have gone through the terror training camps. There are -- we were told by sources this week -- several other individuals who have reached plea agreements with the government that remain under seal. So we may be hearing at the appropriate time more stories like the story that we heard with this fellow, who was approached by law enforcement and offered -- well, we can take several routes here, one of them is that you cooperate with this. And they kept it secret for a really long time.

STARR: Why didn't we hear about it earlier?

ARENA: Because according to the government, this needed to be kept secret so that no one else was tipped off. Because if this guy had associates or people here that he was working with, they didn't want anyone to know that he was working with the government. So he was approached in March by law enforcement, according to our sources. That was in March. They approached him, he was willing. They said that there was something about him that made them believe that he was flippable, which means that basically he would cooperate with the government. And they got him on a plane. He flew into Virginia. He reached a plea agreement with the government. And then they announced it just this week.

Now, there was some reporting about this guy, that "Newsweek" had done where they named him. There had been a lot of reporting done by CNN as well about this truck driver who had been fingered by Khalid Shaikh Mohammed. And no one could get his name, and then "Newsweek" came out with his name. And so there was some thinking, maybe, you know, all of a sudden, "Newsweek" was saying the guy disappeared, we couldn't find him. And all of a sudden, you know, this is announced.

But there's also like one agent said to me, there's only so much milk you can get from a cow, and they were pretty much done with him in terms of the information that he had to offer.

COHEN: Kelli, you mentioned plans to blow up the Brooklyn Bridge, plans to blow up a plane on the tarmac. Were these plans in their infancy or how far developed were they?

ARENA: Well, they were just actually -- he was just scouting. He was surveilling. Actually, the plan involving the Brooklyn Bridge was to cut the cables to bring it down. It didn't involve explosives at all. And he had, according to the government documents, sent a message back to al Qaeda leaders saying it wasn't going to work. It was a no-go, that the security around the bridge was just too tight, and that, you know, with the type of equipment he was looking at -- gas cutters they were looking to use, you know, those (UNINTELLIGIBLE) torches, that it just would not work, it was not a feasible plan.

But the Brooklyn Bridge has come up before in intelligence documents. That is something -- it's just such a monument, it is such a symbol, and that is -- that seems to be the al Qaeda MO, is to go after, you know, symbols of wealth and power here in the United States.

MALVEAUX: And this is is a success story, but I wonder, how many other plots there are that might be interrupted? And why aren't we seeing more of this? I know that some people think, well, maybe these sleeper cells are just kind of falling asleep, they get comfortable in the United States.

ARENA: Well, you know, hello, exactly. I had a conversation with several agents this week about that very concept, about that there are people who come to the United States, possibly with orders, or even of their own volition, and say I'm going to help the jihad cause. And once they get here, they get jobs, they make friends, sometimes they get married, they have lovers. They get comfortable here in the United States, they lose that commitment to jihad and they just -- you know, as I said, sleeper cells just fall asleep. They're just never to be reactivated again.

But -- but, there's also the element of what they don't know and who they don't know about, and you repeatedly hear -- you heard that again from FBI Director Robert Mueller this week, we don't know, we don't know, and that's a concern.

COHEN: Kelli, thank you for that news. It's a little bit depressing. And actually, we'll be talking more about depression, but this time the clinical kind. When we come back, it turns out that more Americans are not just worried or sad but seriously depressed. We're back ON THE STORY in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COHEN: We're ON THE STORY. Question of the week is, who's depressed? The answer is it's about one out of every six Americans is depressed, according to a new study that just came out. That's more people than had previously been thought, and their treatment is falling short.

Welcome back. We're ON THE STORY. This is a new study that came out of Harvard University this week. And what was sort of shocking about it, is not just the number that one out of six Americans is depressed, but even worse, four out of five of them are not getting adequate treatment. That's four out of five. Now, it may be because the doctor's not giving the right drug dosage, or maybe that the patient says, oh, forget this doctor, I'm going to go to the drug store and sort of get something over the counter, and that's not considered adequate treatment. But it's sort of a mixed bag, because in a way, people are facing their depression more, they are owning up to it and they are actually going to the doctor, but when they go to the doctor, they're not always getting the right treatment.

MALVEAUX: Elizabeth, why are we seeing, again, with these studies that women seem to be much more depressed than men? Is that really accurate, or is it just women are more likely to seek treatment or it's more acceptable to go to the doctor if you're having a problem?

COHEN: You know, Suzanne, that's a great question. And I think you've gotten to one of the problems in depression, is that you don't know -- you don't know why you see the numbers. Is it because -- as you said, women just feel more comfortable saying, you know what, I need help? Men are notorious for not coming forward in that way, and saying they need help. So it's very difficult to tease that out, and also for men, when they have emotional problem, sometimes it doesn't come out as depression, it comes out as violence, it comes out as anger. So there may be depression, but it may be masked and so it gets diagnosed as something else.

STARR: Now, Elizabeth, does this study really get to the point of true clinical depression as opposed to the notion of just feeling blue?

COHEN: Yes, this study does talk about that, and that one out of six number, that one out of six Americans is clinically depressed, that means truly depressed. That means that they're not just sort of feeling sad from time to time. And that's the big difference. Many people feel sad from time to time. Clinical depression is where you have five or more symptoms of depression every day for at least two weeks. And those symptoms are things like you're not eating enough or you're eating too much. You're not finding pleasure in activities that used to bring you pleasure. You're sleeping way too much or way too little, things like that. But it has to be consistent and it has to last for a relatively long period of time.

STARR: Is there any sense of why this happens -- why, perhaps, the increase of Americans over the years being depressed? Is it something in society, or is it just -- does it just happen?

COHEN: You know, it's really hard to tease out. And this sort of relates to what Suzanne was asking about before. Because you don't know. It's more OK now to say that you're depressed. Many celebrities, in fact, have gone on television saying, I suffered from depression and I'm going to talk about that now. And so that makes more sort of ordinary Americans say, well, then I'm going to talk about my depression too. So when you see the increase, it's never completely clear whether that's a true increase or just that people are willing to come out about it now, and go seek help.

ARENA: Now, Elizabeth, in terms of the treatment, what blame do doctors take here, in terms not giving the right treatment? You said before, people are just saying, well, I'm not going to go to the doctor or deal with it, but are doctors actually at fault here as well? COHEN: Yes. I've heard some doctors criticize other doctors, especially internists who have to deal with managed care. I mean, if you are an internist these days, you have got to see your patients in a matter of minutes, and you're seeing lots of different problems all at one time, so you can imagine you see someone with strep throat for five minutes, and someone with back pain for seven minutes. And then a depressed person walks in. A, you don't really have the time to deal with them as perhaps you should, and B, you don't always have the training to deal with them. And so sometimes those patients really get lost in the shuffle, when perhaps they really need to be seeing psychologists or psychiatrists.

Now, some internists are well trained and are well supervised, but too often they do get lost in the shuffle.

MALVEAUX: Well, thank you, Elizabeth.

Even President Bush had medical problems this week, a jogger's torn muscle. But politically, the president was looking strong. I'm back ON THE STORY in a moment.

ANNOUNCER: Suzanne Malveaux is a CNN White House correspondent. She joined CNN in 2002 after reporting from Washington, Chicago and Boston. With time and energy left over from the White House beat, she competes in triathlons.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: The political season will come in its own time. Right now, this administration is focused on the people's business.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: President Bush this week, kicking off his $25 million fund-raising push this week, and walking that line between president and candidate.

Welcome back. We're ON THE STORY. Absolutely amazing, yesterday. He was in Greensboro, Georgia. He raised more than $2 million. Tuesday, they kicked off the campaign in Washington. We're talking about the goal here, $20 million by the end of the month, $200 million during the primary, for the primary reelection campaign.

And what this is all about is simply -- the purpose here is to set the agenda for the president, to shape the agenda, to talk about his own issues and to defend himself against all nine of the Democratic hopefuls that he'll be going up against.

But it is clearly meant to send a strong message that he is in the dominant position here. It is to intimidate, and that he has the war chest, really, to shape how this reelection campaign is going to go.

ARENA: How is this going to square with voters? You have the economy, very shaky, you know, the domestic agenda, just really nonexistent. Because of Iraq and other issues. How does this fund- raiser in chief role square with this, you know, "I'm here to create more jobs" role?

MALVEAUX: Right. And there are some critics this week, actually Democratic candidates, who were saying, well, this seems to be subverting the democratic process. Why is the president spending all of his time here raising this kind of money? Well, White House spokesman Ari Fleischer came back and he said, well, look, you know, this is the American people expressing themselves, showing their support for the president.

But at the same time, the critics come back and they say, well, you know, not everybody can afford a $2,000 a plate dinner on Tuesday, which was hot dogs, hamburgers and nachos, so that's what they come back with. But it's a valid point. People are asking, why is the president spending his time doing this? But they want to get an early start in it. The president's weekly radio address, just in this moment.

(BEGIN AUDIOTAPE)

BUSH: Good morning.

Ten weeks have passed since the fall of the Iraqi regime. Since that time, our work in Iraq has focused on two goals: First, we are working to make Iraq secure for its citizens and our military. Second, we are working to improve the lives of the Iraqi people after three decades of tyranny and oppression.

Making Iraq secure is vitally important for both Iraqi citizens and our own forces. The men and women of our military face a continuing risk of danger and sacrifice in Iraq. Dangerous pockets of the old regime remain loyal to it, and they, along with their terrorist allies, are behind deadly attacks designed to kill and intimidate coalition forces and innocent Iraqis.

Our military is acting decisively against these threats. In Operation Peninsula Strike and Operation Desert Scorpion, our forces have targeted Baath Party loyalists and terrorist organizations. In Baghdad, more than 28,000 American combat forces and military police are enforcing the law and arresting criminals. We are also training Iraqis to begin policing their own cities.

As we establish order and justice in Iraq, we also continue to pursue Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction. Military and intelligence officials are interviewing scientists with knowledge of Saddam Hussein's weapons programs and are pouring over hundreds of thousands of documents.

For more than a decade, Saddam Hussein went to great lengths to hide his weapons from the world. And in the regime's final days, documents and suspected weapons sites were looted and burned. Yet all who know the dictator's history agree that he possessed chemical and biological weapons and that he used chemical weapons in the past. The intelligence services of many nations concluded that he had illegal weapons, and the regime refused to provide evidence they had been destroyed. We are determined to discover the true extent of Saddam Hussein's weapons programs, no matter how long it takes.

To date, the United States has provided Iraq with more than $700 million in humanitarian and reconstruction assistance. This month the World Food Programme is distributing food rations to about 25 million Iraqis. America and our partners are also repairing water treatment plants to provide more clean water.

Each week, through our efforts, more electricity is made available to more people throughout the country. And after years of neglect, Iraq's 4.2 million children under the age of five are receiving vaccinations against diseases such as polio, measles and tuberculosis.

Iraq's long-term success also depends on economic development. Our administrator in Iraq has announced a $100 million fund to pay Iraqis to repair buildings and utilities. Billions of dollars taken from Iraqis by a corrupt regime have been recovered and will be spent on reconstruction projects.

Iraq is already in the process of selling oil on world markets, which will bring in much-needed revenue to help the Iraqi people. This week the port at Umm Qasr opened to commercial traffic, and Baghdad International Airport is expected to reopen next month.

For the first time in over a decade, Iraq will soon be open to the world. And the influence of progress in Iraq will be felt throughout the Middle East. Over time, a free government in Iraq will demonstrate that liberty can flourish in that region. American service members continue to risk their lives to ensure the liberation of Iraq. I'm grateful for their service, and so are the Iraqi people. Many Iraqis are experiencing the jobs and responsibilities of freedom for the first time in their lives. And they are unafraid. As one Iraqi man said, "We are ready to rebuild our country."

For the people of free Iraq, the road ahead holds great challenges. Yet at every turn, they will have friendship and support from the United States of America.

Thank you for listening.

(END AUDIOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: It's President Bush in his weekly radio address. And you'll notice, you can hear it, that this is an administration that is on the defensive right now. A lot of issues that are coming to light about weapons of mass destruction. You also have, as you had mentioned before, the number of U.S. soldiers being killed in Iraq, after combat, major combat is over.

I mean, clearly, the question is here, is what is going to stick with this administration? I mean, what is going to hurt them? Political operatives are looking at all of these things, and they realize the president has to address these things. He has to address them now. The whole issue of weapons of mass destruction and these intelligence hearings that are taking place. They have to convey to the American people that they are confident, that they're going to find these weapons, and also that they're working on it at the same time.

The other thing as well, it's probably one of the worst nightmares for the Bush administration, is this idea that you have the U.S. soldiers who are being killed after major combat. This was the one reason why Bush administration officials said we're not going to declare that this war is over. We're going to say major combat is over, but if there are other U.S. casualties, we don't want the voters to come back around and say, well, you know, what happened? You said the war was over. Why are we seeing Americans being killed?

COHEN: Suzanne, do you get a feeling that there is a game plan for what will happen if they never find weapons of mass destruction, sort of how the administration will explain it?

MALVEAUX: I think the administration is already explaining it, to a certain extent. They're already saying, well, here's where the weapons could be, here's where they might have disappeared; eventually we'll find them.

But I think what's happening, and especially when you look at the political aspect of it, is they're emphasizing different things. They're saying, well, we got rid of Saddam Hussein, we got rid of this terrible regime. The Iraqis are thankful. We're working on our reconstruction.

I think what the administration is looking at is what are voters -- what do voters care about? And, so far, if you look at the polls, weapons of mass destruction is not sticking. It is not resonating with the voters.

STARR: That's very ...

MALVEAUX: So they don't have to go that far.

STARR: That's a very interesting point. The -- what will stick as it gets closer to the election time? The national security issues or the economy issues? Where will the Democrats get some traction?

MALVEAUX: And I think you bring up a great point, because I think they realize that when you look at the economy, that that is the one thing that Americans are focusing on right now. Are you better off then you were before? And even last night in his speech, he was -- he almost had this mantra where he says, well, two and a half years ago I inherited this recession in my administration, two and a half years ago, the Army, the Navy, the military was underfunded. Well, here's where we are now. They're already setting up the comparisons.

And also, the Bush administration also, in part, trying to take the credit for what we are seeing -- some weak economic indicators, what we're seeing, that things may be taking a turn for the better.

But yes, they are very much aware that the economy, really, is going to be the number one concern.

STARR: And the budget deficit. I mean, they...

MALVEAUX: Absolutely.

ARENA: Right. We had that pounded into our heads for so long that budget deficit's bad, budget deficit's bad, and then all of a sudden you have the tax cut and you heard, oh, the budget deficit is swelling. But even the tax cut, which was supposed to be a move to save the economy, sort of back-fired on them, because of, you know, the child tax credit.

MALVEAUX: Absolutely. And the next 12 months are really critical for the Bush administration. Whether or not they're actually going to see those jobs being created that the president is promising. They talk about job creation. They say, you know, this huge tax cut. And that it's a real gamble. They believe in it, but it is a real gamble and they'll have to wait and see in about 12 months or so what actually happens with that.

STARR: Well, thanks to all of my colleagues, and thank you for watching ON THE STORY. We'll be back next week. Still ahead -- "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS," focusing this week on Harrison Ford and Harry Potter.

At 12:00 noon Eastern, 9:00 a.m. Pacific time, "CNN LIVE SATURDAY." And at 1:00 p.m. Eastern, 10:00 a.m. Pacific, CNN's "IN THE MONEY" follows the money flowing to Hamas and other groups in the Middle East.

Coming up at the top of the hour, a news alert. And we'll be back next week.

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Take Deadly Hits in Iraq; Is Hussein Still Alive?>