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Pentagon Planners Work to Defeat Challenges in Iraq; A look at How Returning Combat Troops Deal with Killing

Aired November 01, 2003 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to CNN's ON THE STORY, where our journalists have the inside word on the stories we covered this week. I'm Barbara Starr, on the story of the big question facing Pentagon planners: how to face the challenge of Iraq and get the people and machines in place to stop the attacks.
JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: I'm Jane Arraf in Baghdad, on the story of fears of a new wave of terror strikes and concerns that deadly attacks could set back hopes for a stable and independent Iraq.

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Rusty Dornin in California. I'll be back later on the story of just how the prosecution is building its case against Scott Peterson and what turned out to be his big secret.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I'm Dana Bash, on the story of how economic news gave President Bush something to cheer about this week.

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: And I'm Candy Crowley on the story of how combat troops returning from Iraq, like those returning from other wars, will cope with killing. We'll be talking about all these stories, and we'll go to California and talk to a CNN field producer covering the wild fires. We'll listen to the president's weekly radio address at the end of the hour.

And we want to hear from you. Email us at onthestory.com. Now right to Jane Arraf and not peace, not war.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These criminals, these terrorists are indiscriminate in terms of who they're attacking, and especially at the start of the holy month of Ramadan. This is a bane on the Iraqi people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ARRAF: Well, it was billed as a day of hell today. Fliers said that it would be a day of vengeance, and a lot of people did stay home. People took their children out of school. But pretty well the rest of the city was essentially normal. Now, it's in indication of how edgy the city is, that people were too afraid to put their children in school. The schools themselves surrounded by U.S. soldiers and Iraqi security forces.

Now, we were listening to L. Paul Bremer, the chief civil administrator, and the top general here just a few moments ago, and they continue to say that things continue to get better. But clearly, that's not the case for a lot of these people who are indeed living in fear in the wake of these strikes.

STARR: Jane, what is the actual mood on the streets of Baghdad? Are Iraqis concerned? Do they feel vulnerable at this point? What are you hearing from them?

ARRAF: You know, Barbara, as we went around today, because really, it is really hard to overemphasize the eerie evening that this city had. There had been the leaflets that were dropped, distributed to schools. There were warnings from the U.S. government, warnings from the Australian government. And nobody really knew what would happen today.

Now, as the morning wore on, people slowly emerged and things got back to normal. Although the schools will remain closed. But people we talked to were saying that really they were miserable because they just never knew when the next strike was going to hit. And we're talking not now attacks on coalition targets or U.S. forces. These are suicide bombs that are killing mostly Iraqis.

The one at the Red Cross, other ones at police stations. Iraqis are the victims. And Iraqis working with Americans are the targets.

CROWLEY: Jane, we have heard, at least during the week, about the possibility that Saddam Hussein was somehow arranging all of this. And we know that early on the Iraqi people were not willing to trust that the U.S. would stay because they feared that Saddam was still around. Do they think in general that Saddam Hussein is behind this?

ARRAF: One of the really interesting things is that every once in a while, quite frequently, actually, there are sightings of him. People swear that they see him. They see him in Fallujah, they see him in Baghdad, they see him in coffee shops.

Now, I think that's probably an indication of how deeply he's engrained in the Iraqi psyche. But, yes, they believe he's still out there and alive, as does Bremer. Bremer said just a few moments ago that they know that Saddam Hussein is alive. They believe he's alive and they believe he's in Iraq.

They still haven't found him, obviously. That's a very tough thing to do. And I think perhaps the difficulty of that is sometimes underestimated. But still, it's clearly a factor that he is still out there. People feel it.

BASH: Jane, President Bush said this week that he thinks that the people responsible for these attacks are either and/or essentially foreign terrorists or Ba'athists or former Ba'athists. What are you hearing about who might be responsible? Is it, do you think, a combination of both? Are they actually working together?

ARRAF: I think you've got to separate the attacks. And what they're saying here increasingly is that these suicide bombs, with the really large amounts of explosives -- and we're talking about something like 1,000 pounds of explosives packed into each car and actual suicide bombs. People who feel so passionately about this, they are killing themselves. Those are said to be the work of foreign fighters, if you will. Just because it has never been a feature of Iraqi attacks to do things that way.

Now, there's also the attacks, the continuing attacks. And at some point, they've reached more than 30 a day of attacks on American soldiers and attacks on coalition targets. And those are more the improvised explosive devices which are essentially homemade bombs, rocket propelled grenades, small arms fire. And those really are thought to be a much more indigenous, homegrown remnants of the Ba'ath Party or one of the many groups or individuals who simply do not want to see the Americans here.

STARR: But is their organization behind all of this, from what you're hearing, or is it just a growing number of people in opposition to the U.S. presence?

ARRAF: It's really hard to put numbers on it. But certainly, I think what we have to remember, what we lose sight of sometimes is, this country was not screaming for the United States to come and rescue it. People very much wanted to be rid of Saddam, but at the same time, for many people, the United States was seen as a necessary evil rather than something they actively wanted.

And now that we're seven months in, people really, really wish that the U.S. troops didn't have to be here. Even if some of them understand and believe why they do have to be there, and even if some of them get along extremely well with the Americans they see patrolling in their neighborhood. I have very rarely heard anyone say that they really want the Americans to stay.

In fact, never. I have never heard anyone say they want the Americans to stay past the point where they absolutely have to. And people really wish that they didn't have to.

STARR: Well, every shot fired in Iraq echoes here in Washington and is heard by the Pentagon brass driving the war. A look at what the U.S. military can do to change tactics when we're back ON THE STORY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Strategy remains the same. The tactics to respond to more suiciders driving cars will alter on the ground. More checkpoints, whatever they decide, how to harden targets will change. And so we're constantly looking at the enemy and adjusting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: President Bush at his Tuesday news conference, saying the strategy remains the same in Iraq, but tactics may change. Welcome back. We're ON THE STORY.

That seemed to be part of the message this week, President Bush going out in the Rose Garden, Secretary Rumsfeld in the briefing room at the Pentagon, after all these attacks, saying look, we know, we understand, we acknowledge, it's very dangerous. And this week, a top military official very privately said now it is a full-blown insurgency, and that means they are acknowledging a real organized effort to overthrow the existing coalition authority there.

We may -- I don't know, Jane. I don't know what your thinking is, but lot of people here seem to think we may look back on this week of bombings and attacks a real change, a seat change in what's going on in Iraq.

ARRAF: You know, we've sort of been expecting to hear that from Pentagon officials and other people here. But we just heard General Sanchez say just a few minutes ago again that over the last sick months they have thought these attacks, felt these attacks, statistically insignificant. And he didn't say anything to indicate that they changed their minds. Is that really what they're still thinking there?

STARR: Well, I think there's statistical insignificance, and then in Washington there's always political significance. If the Bush administration headed into an election season begins to feel the pressure, begins to feel that the public is getting increasingly concerned, I think we're going start seeing some different messages, some different emphasis from the administration.

CROWLEY: Look, I think, you know, obviously there's already political pressure. I hear it on the campaign trail. George Bush hears it all the time. And we just heard Bremer say we're going speed up Iraqis taking over their own security.

Do you get a sense that they're ready for that at all?

STARR: That is really the question. Now at the Pentagon what they're saying is the second largest member of the coalition is the Iraqi security forces. Something like 85,000 people now trained in various Iraqi security functions. Putting the Iraqis on the front line, having them be a very large face of the reconstruction of Iraq.

But that's going to be a very critical question. Can these Iraqis police officers essentially, you know, guard schools, guard market places? Can they keep the Iraqi people safe? What level of confidence will there be in the reconstruction?

Because, at the same time, we are seeing the international organizations, the Red Cross, other organizations pull out of Baghdad, saying it's just too dangerous. So a very mixed picture. And clearly, to be blunt, a lot of people say it may not matter much who's at the front line, the security situation has to improve. These are not the pictures the administration wants to see on TV.

BASH: Barbara, there were a lot of meetings at the White House this week. Secretary Rumsfeld was there, meeting at least two, maybe three days about the situation, about how to change the tactics. What are you hearing about the result of that, beyond transferring power more quick to Iraqis?

STARR: Well, those meetings were very key because, again, it gets to the question, this is now an insurgency effort. General Abizaid, the head of U.S. Central Command, making a strong push, as everyone understands it, for more intelligence resources, more analysts, more translators, much greater intelligence capability on the ground to begin to fight this opposition effort or to pursue fighting it.

They clearly feel this is now a top priority and they need much better intelligence to deal with it. Whether it's Saddam Hussein, Saddam's henchmen, foreigners, Ba'athist loyalists, it doesn't much matter. He's got to find whoever it is and start dealing with them. That's really the key.

And they're going be looking at some very interesting...

ARRAF: Barbara, I'm wondering how much -- I'm wondering how much of an effect these suicide bombers here did have. I mean, here it was really a seat change in terms of not only the suicide bombings, but this wave essentially of what already was quite a limited group of expatriates with humanitarian organizations leaving. Now, here they are pretty well -- officials here are shrugging it off in some sense, but has that really had an impact? Is that really a blow?

STARR: It's another question, Jane, I think -- and Dana can address this -- of the seat change from the beginning of the week in Washington to the end of the week. At the beginning of the week, the president saying, these suicide attacks are an indication the opposition is getting desperate, that they know the U.S. is succeeding.

BASH: Well, they say (ph) a very different tone. The president came out, he had the press conference, and he was very clear that he wanted to make clear that the United States is not going anywhere, but that it is very dangerous. He said the word "dangerous," I don't know, between 10 and 20 times in that press conference.

You're right. Very different. Different from the PR campaign that we were hearing about all the progress. Not so much talk about progress this week. A lot of talk about what they're going to try to do to fix it on the ground. Don't you think?

STARR: Absolutely. More -- it's very interesting. Nobody's talking about it much, but there's some very interesting pieces of classified military technology being shipped over to Iraq to try and deal with the situation.

Just to mention one of the little widgets they're working on, can they develop a system? They're looking at monitoring radio frequencies to see if they can detect what radio frequency explosives are actually being remotely detonated on. Can they monitor that frequency, turn around and detonate the explosive before the insurgents attack U.S. forces?

So they're looking at everything from high-tech solutions to more boots on the ground, in terms of intelligence analysts trying to get a real handle on it. And again, I think the question in Washington is, does it really matter whether it's Saddam or Ba'athist loyalists or foreign terrorists?

As long as people are dying in Iraq they want to get a handle on it. They know that Americans probably don't really care who it is from a political sense. They just don't want to see these pictures on television.

CROWLEY: And the pictures obviously drive what they say. The question is, is there a larger point here -- to you or Jane as to whether there is peace? We keep hearing, well, the problem's in Baghdad, the problem's in Baghdad. You know, is there any way to get a very large picture of whether any progress is being made or is it all suicide bombings?

STARR: Well, there's electricity generation, as Jane knows better than I. Electricity generation is up. The water system is working. Schools are back open.

But Jane, how fragile is all of this when you look at just today schools shutting down because of this day of retribution that's planned? Is the progress fragile?

BASH: Jane, thank you for joining us. I think you have to go get back on to the story there in Iraq. We appreciate you joining us.

And From Iraq to California and to Laci Peterson and the murder case there. Coming up, our Rusty Dornin was in the courtroom for the preliminary hearing and joins us ON THE STORY.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're praying for wisdom for the court and looking forward to seeing the truth come out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DORNIN: It turns out after three days during this preliminary hearing, the truth is coming out. We are hearing more about Scott Peterson and his activities, his alibi. Apparently, Scott Peterson and Laci Peterson's family, neither one of them knew that he had purchased a fishing boat. Members of his family and Laci Peterson's family testified on Friday. The first two days were eaten up by a lot of very complex testimony about mitochondrial DNA and whether a single strand of hair found on pliers found at the bottom of Scott Peterson's boat can be admitted as evidence.

BASH: Rusty, obviously the preliminary hearing is a peek into what the prosecution and defense are planning for the main trial. What did you see that might give you a hint as to what both sides are planning that might be surprising?

DORNIN: Well, it's interesting, because so far it seems that the single strand of hair is going to be a key piece of evidence for the prosecution. And, as I said, they spent two days questioning this FBI DNA expert. The defense is trying fight to fight it and it have thrown out of court, and we're not going hear from the defense expert until Monday.

They are, of course, trying to prove that this mitochondrial DNA is just not reliable. It's not as reliable as other forms of DNA fingerprinting. They want to get it thrown out.

The only day of testimony we've had from any witnesses was yesterday, when we heard from Laci's mother, her sister, and also Scott Peterson's father. They all testified as to the days leading up to when Laci disappeared.

Scott Peterson's father did talk about having a conversation with his son on the day his wife disappeared. He said Scott called him on his cell phone between 12:00 and 2:00 and they talked about what they would be doing from Christmas. Well, between 12:00 and 2:00 is when Scott Peterson said he was fishing in the Berkley Marina, yet he never told his father that he was fishing while he talked to him, and he also never told his father he had bought a boat. So it looks like the prosecution is trying poke holes in his alibi at this point.

CROWLEY: Hey, Rusty, what can you tell us -- I mean, body language in court to me is always fascinating because you've got literally the parents of the murdered person, the parents of the former husband and the accused. What's it like, sort of the dynamic in the court?

DORNIN: Well, when the Rocha family comes in, Laci Peterson's family, there's a whole entourage of family and friends that are invited for that particular day in court. They take up two rows. And they come in at the last.

They are brought in special. No reporters. They don't let anyone talk to them. They sit in the front row.

The Peterson family of course then comes in. There's a smaller group of them.

What was interesting was, when Amy Rocha -- it was the maid that was talking about what Laci Peterson was wearing the day before she disappeared. It was Jackie Peterson, Scott's mother, who began to cry in court.

The other time there were some emotional things going on was when Lee Peterson, Scott's father, took the stand and the first thing he said was, "I am proud to say that Scott is my son." And at that point, Scott Peterson also appeared to be wiping tears away.

There has not been a lot of emotional testimony as of yet. Her mother, Sharon Rocha, took the stand, and she was very direct and did not express very much emotion at all. So, as I said, we've been hearing a lot of complex DNA testimony early on. Yesterday was the first time we heard from the relatives.

STARR: And Rusty, do we expect to hear from Amber Frey?

DORNIN: We expect to hear from Amber Frey sometime next week. Her attorney, Gloria Allred, has been in court every day. As you might have heard, defense attorney Mark Geragos tried to have her excluded from court, saying that she should not be there while other witnesses are testifying because she might tell Amber Frey what went on in court.

The judge just told Gloria Allred that -- not to tell her client any of the goings on in court. But of course Gloria Allred is coming out every day and telling reporters what she thinks about what's going on in the case.

She did not say when her client is coming. She's never actually confirmed that Amber Frey is actually coming. She's only hinted at it. We are assuming that she's coming sometime next week.

BASH: Rusty, tell us about the letter that Scott Peterson wrote, I guess in jail, and what impact that's having or not having on what's going on inside the courtroom.

DORNIN: Well, it's not having an impact of what's going on inside the courtroom. This was also a series of letters that was written apparently in April to a very close friend, where he describes the conditions in jail and sort of how awful that is and one of the letters. In another one he describes how he cries every night when he thinks about his wife and his unborn child, and that he tries to hide his tears from the other inmates so they won't hear him.

He also says that the first time he heard that his wife and son were -- unborn son were definitely dead was when the police arrested him. That was right after they identified the bodies that washed up in April. They arrested Scott Peterson down near a golf course in San Diego. And he claims that it was the detectives that told him that Laci and Connor were dead and that he had no time to really grieve.

STARR: Well, Rusty, thank you. What's on the story for you as you continue to cover the Laci Peterson murder case?

DORNIN: Well, it looks like on Monday we're going to have a lot more complex DNA testimony as the defense expert takes the stand and tries to poke a lot of holes in the reliability of this scientific technique. That will probably take up most of Monday.

And then there will be -- we still have yet to hear from investigators and information on the autopsy and also from Amber Frey. So that's what's going to be coming up next week. This was supposed to end on Tuesday. But now it's looking like it could perhaps go into the end of next week and even perhaps the following week.

STARR: Well, we'll be looking forward to hearing what comes next on that story.

Just ahead: a check on what's making the headlines at this hour. And we'll go to the California wildfires and CNN field producer Traci Tamura.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was very surreal. It's like you're standing there seeing this fire coming close to your house. And you think, no, that's not happening.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CROWLEY: That is Dina Rack (ph) from the suburbs of Stevensons Ranch, one of the people who faced off this week with the California wild fires. Welcome back. We're ON THE STORY.

Joining us now is CNN field producer Traci Tamura, who has been covering the fires this week, back at it today. Traci, I've got to know what this experience is like. How close do you get to those fires? Are you breathing in soot and ash? Do you have a mask? How does that work?

TRACI TAMURA, CNN PRODUCER: Yes. I mean, we're right -- as close as we're kind of allowed to be, which is fairly close. In one case, one of the local trucks went up in flames. And you may have heard about that story.

But every day you come back and your smell of soot -- and it permeates everything. I mean, you take a shower, you still smell it in your hair. So you do get right up there. You have to wear safety goggles, not pretty.

Bad hair. The yellow hat that you have to wear. But that all has to do with falling embers or snags off trees they call when the tops of the trees burn and fall off and could hit you.

So you do have to do all of that. And you definitely are right up there and you feel and smell everything.

STARR: Traci, it seems like you're covering a war, almost, just as much as Iraq is. I mean, you're covering a ground campaign by the firefighters on the ground, air campaign, helicopters and aircraft from the air. Does it feel like that to you?

TAMURA: You know, not having covered a war -- but this is a very unsettling situation. I don't really care to cover fires. I'm sure the people that have their homes destroyed obviously don't want that to happen either. But you almost have to go into it with that kind of a take, I think. You know, you go in and you try to position sat (ph) truck in a way that it can be faced out, that you have to move in a moment's notice. You have to look at where the fire's coming from and judge the winds. It's all of the elements that Mother Nature really dictates and the firefighters that tell you can be there or you got to get out, tell you what to do. So it is very much like a war environment, I guess.

BASH: Traci, we see that people behind you filing into the evacuation center, where you are right now. As you talk to these people who have, I guess hundreds of them, thousands who have lost their homes, lost almost their entire lives, what has surprised you the most about the way that they are approaching the situation?

TAMURA: You know, I think having come here -- I came and visited yesterday. We're here today. There's a certain resiliency.

I mean, the people, I think that they -- you learn to appreciate on the spot what's important. Certainly, they would have liked to have time to get pictures and mementos. But as one woman put it, the family heirlooms just didn't really make sense at that point. It's whatever they could get their hands on -- but as long as their family and their children are safe.

And a lot of the people here, especially parents, really have to show a good face still for the children because they don't know what's going on. And so one woman said, you know, it's only at night where she can really -- where she's laying there and maybe has some tears because during the day she has to be strong for her children.

CROWLEY: What about the other element of this, which is the firefighters? Some are losing their homes even as they're fighting for other people's homes. Is this still gung ho? Are they getting any rest? This has been going on for a week, right?

TAMURA: Yes. I think the weather is helping obviously up in the area where I have been, Lake Arrowhead, Big Bear. It's probably snowing. But the firefighters are amazing. I mean, it's a cliche to say they're the heroes, but they rally are.

I mean, we hung out with a strike team from San Bernardino County, and all their focus was to get in and save whatever they could. I mean, homes were burning down around them. They were still trying to figure out the best positioning, and they were willing to -- even if the fire whipped around and they had to get out, they would reposition and go back in. And, I mean, 48 hours later, on maybe two hours rest, they were still willing to go in, and really they want to beat this thing bad.

STARR: Traci, what do you hear from people there? Do some people say they plan to go back into the hillsides, rebuild their homes? Are they going to pack up and leave forever?

TAMURA: You know, I think it's mixed. At this point, a lot of these people here still, still they haven't been allowed to go back. And even though there may be areas that are cleared and a little bit safer, there's still the power lines, there's still trees that have been burned out. So there's all these safety issues. So it's still mandatory evacuation.

As far as going back and rebuilding, some I think haven't made the decision. Some are choosing to maybe look else where, if they were renting a property up there. So I think it's mixed bag as to what they will do.

There was one family that one of our crews had talked to. And they owned a lot of properties, but the parents that owned it, had their home, they're in their 80s. So they didn't feel like they would probably rebuild. But who knows down the future? I think there's a lot of questions in a lot of their minds.

CROWLEY: Hey, Traci Tamura, thanks so much for joining us. Where are you headed now on the story for the rest of the day?

TAMURA: Well, I'll be working with Frank Buckley on a special for tonight, and we'll probably go back up in the hills and see if the weather is agreeing and how that's going up. So we'll probably go back up to the fire and see what's going on.

CROWLEY: Thanks, Traci.

From California to another kind of battlefield, I'm back talking ON THE STORY in a moment, talking about "CNN Presents" this week, "Fit to Kill." It's a look at how soldiers cope with killing in battle and later back home. One Vietnam veteran talked about how a drowning rescue near here on the Potomac took him right back to southeast Asia.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We called in with some artillery and some napalm and things like that. Some innocent women and children got hit. We met them on the road and they had little girls with noses blown off and, like, husbands carrying their dead wives and things like that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CROWLEY: Corporal Casey Brommer (ph) in Iraq describing a deadly incident there. Part of the "CNN Presents" that plays later here today at 8:00 p.m. Eastern. We call it "Fit to Kill." U.S. military personnel in Iraq, like those who served in past wars, were trained to kill, did their duty, and then they carry back home their memories.

Welcome back. We're ON THE STORY.

You know, we rarely get a chance to kind of sit back and do a story over time. And what I think I love most about this story was just that the World War II veteran we talked about, that 80-year-old, was saying the same things that these 18, 19, 20-year-olds were telling us in Najaf. It was sort of amazing about what it is like to be a farm boy from Iowa who suddenly ends -- is out in a field actually killing people after your whole upbringing is about being kind, being nice.

And then you're sent over there in a wholly different situation. And I was fascinated how that affected them as they came home six years later.

STARR: It's really interesting, because of course this is the part nobody ever really wants to talk about, that essentially, even with all the high tech, all the remote warfare and everything, it still really comes down to kill or be killed. Did you find from these young men that you spoke with that they get any preparation for it before they go?

CROWLEY: No. We didn't get the sense. Andy Siegel (ph), who was the producer on this, also talked to the recruits. And you know, they came out knowing how to kill and revved up to kill because this is how they survive. I mean, this is the difference between coming home and coming home in a body bag.

So the idea of, you'll also have a reaction to killing someone, particularly up close, is not something that's discussed widely and not something really that they think about. This is about survival at the very first. So it's only in the after math that the "I killed someone" effect begins to take effect.

BASH: Well, Barbara asked about preparation. What about when they come home? How much has changed based on what the Pentagon, what the military has learned about what happens to these guys?

CROWLEY: They've learned a lot. I mean, particularly from Vietnam, where -- and one of the main problems in Vietnam they thought was that there was no unit that you stuck with. They brought reinforcements over alone on a plane with a bunch of strangers, dropped them off at the depot, and then they were sort of parched out to a unit, served their year and came back home alone. So they were dealing with the exact same things that everyone else was, but alone.

So they understand that units -- even now in Iraq they are encouraging them in their down times to talk about their experience. There's problems of course when they get home. They have psychological evaluations, along with their health evaluations. And they're hoping that these men who are having some trouble -- and again, the vast majority of them do move on and live wonderful lives, but it takes a while.

BASH: But it is still a stigma, right?

CROWLEY: Absolutely. I mean, one of the great things that one of them over in Iraq said was, "You know, I'm a Marine." You're sitting around going, yes, I dropped that, guy, like it's no big deal. But then he sort of paused and said, "But it is a big deal."

So they're up against this sort of macho culture. And the culture itself is trying to get them to talk. But it's just tough, you know, because your whole thing was to train, and you're tough, and you're a Marine, and you're an infantry. You know, whatever you are, you go out there and this is your job and that's what you do. STARR: And, course, Iraq is a bit of a different circumstance because they're not fighting an enemy in uniform with tanks and guns coming at them. Their enemy is often Iraqis now in civilian clothes, suicide bombers an unseen enemy. It's not the tradition man-on-man warfare, if you will.

CROWLEY: Right. And that's what they found first in the Vietnam, where of course there were a lot of killing of innocents. That the toughest to deal with for anybody is, first of all, killing someone that you don't really know is friend or foe. And in Iraq, that happens a lot.

A truck comes at you (UNINTELLIGIBLE). But they may be loaded with something. So it's -- not only is it the -- what the Pentagon calls those sort of peripheral killings, but it's also the people that you deliberately kill, that then they wonder later, gee, was that a civilian or was that a military? So a lot of doubt comes up.

And the worst thing, of course, is when you kill up close. And there's a lot of that that went on in Iraq, as it went on in Vietnam and in places in World War II. So they know that the most difficult circumstances are when you wonder, did I shoot at the right person, or was that an innocent?

BASH: Are there any programs in place to hook up the generations, to have somebody who was a veteran of World War II talk to somebody coming back from Iraq, almost to make them feel better, if you will, to say, you're not alone, this happens no matter what generation, no matter what war?

CROWLEY: The do have -- you know, they've got Army chaplains, they've got Army psychiatrists across the military. That I know of, they don't. But there are a lot of veterans that do frequent bases, that do talk to them. They're certainly there.

STARR: You know, it's very interesting, because the Vietnam generation is really taking part in all of this. What we learned a few weeks ago, there are Vietnam veterans who are amputees, for example, that are going up to Walter Reed Hospital here in Washington, D.C., visiting with returning Iraqi veterans, young kids, 22 years old who are also amputees.

Not directly addressing the question of killing, but they're telling these young men coming back from a war, it will be all right. You'll get through it. You got to make the effort and get back to your life. So there is a connection across the generations now.

BASH: Well, we're going to go now from the battlefield to the political arena. And President Bush is on the campaign trail today and gets his bragging rights to the fastest economic growth since the 1980s. We're back ON THE STORY in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BUSH: I will defend my record at the appropriate time. I look forward to it. I'll say that the world is more peaceful and more free under my leadership. And America's more secure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: President Bush on Tuesday. One part of the Bush record he was eager to defend this week, his economic policies. Word that the economy in July, August and September grew 7.2 percent, the fastest rate since 1984.

Welcome back. We're ON THE STORY.

And if we were allowed to roam around the White House, which, of course, we're not, we would have seen dancing in the hallways on Thursday when these economic numbers came out. They were prepared for good news. They had sort of laid the groundwork, starting on Monday, for a mini PR campaign.

They had booked their top economic advisers on shows. They were ready with press releases the minute these numbers came out. And of course, the president came out, he was traveling in Ohio. And he said what he's been waiting to say for a long time, I'm vindicated. My tax cuts, almost $2 trillion that he signed into law, are actually working. So with all the bad news on Iraq, this was definitely something that they were quite happy about.

CROWLEY: And just one small problem. Not to rain on their parade, about three million jobs, many of which won't come back in the manufacturing area. What was their response to that? I mean, it still -- we did get some jobs in September, I think.

BASH: Yes. A few.

CROWLEY: But, you know, it's still a problem for him, is it not?

BASH: Yes. They know that. That is, of course, the one area where the Democrats can still sort of rail on the White House. And they certainly did.

But privately, they say they absolutely know that. And Candy, as you well know, it's politically a very tough situation, the jobs situation for the White house, because -- if you look at the map, the political map, it is the key industrial swing states that have lost the most jobs, the most jobs, as you say, in manufacturing. And economists say those jobs aren't coming back, which is why, as happy and elated as they were, you heard -- the very next sentence was, for the president and his aides, we're not going rest until everybody has a job. They're going to keep pounding away on that issue because they know it is a big problem.

STARR: Because the question is whether or not this is all going to be sustainable. Will it last? Is this a one-quarter phenomenon? Has the tax cut worked its way through the economy and that's all the good they're going to get from it? BASH: And that's the answer -- they don't know the answer to that question, which is -- but that is another reason why, in the expectations game of politics, they were also very careful. The president himself said in his speech that this isn't going to be this good. I mean, they were shocked at how good this number was, the best since Ronald Reagan was the president.

It's not going to be this good in the future. But they are pointing to other signs in the economy. They continue to talk about the fact that, although jobs are bad, it's a bad time for them, they say that most Americans, the majority of Americans are now investors and the stock market is a key thing that they point to. They talk about home sales going up.

So they talk about other parts of the economy. But the answer is, we don't know. And of course we are still a year away from the election.

STARR: So Candy, from the campaign trail, how do the Democrats deal with all of this?

CROWLEY: Well, that's really great, but it's only one quarter. And it's going to take more than one quarter of good news to, you know -- I mean, it was pretty predictable stuff. I mean, you really -- I mean, as horrible as this sounds, you know the economy getting better is not the best thing for Democrats.

Interesting how it's turned topsy-turvy, because now of course Iraq is the big thing that they're pounding the president on. Who would have thunk it?

BASH: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) job so much fun. You never know what's going to happen.

CROWLEY: You never know what's going to happen. And we had that whole mission accomplished thing come up again. And I wanted to ask you about that and how that all transpired.

BASH: That was one of the most interesting things, if not the most interesting thing of the president's press conference this week. On Tuesday, only his 10th formal press conference of his presidency, he was asked a lot about Iraq. And he was asked specifically whether or not he declared major combat over too early, when he had that carrier landing, the picture we've all seen with the banner "Mission Accomplished" behind him.

And he chose to say, really unsolicited, well, that mission accomplished banner, we didn't put up that. The Navy put that up. Which was almost uncharacteristic of this president because he generally doesn't assign blame.

He's been asked a question about this many times and he hasn't offered this information. So Barbara, as you know, we came in and contacted you and said, "How do we contact the Navy? Is this so?"

It turns out the Navy said it was definitely their idea. However, we learned later, and the White House admitted, the White House did actually make the banner. They actually did make it.

So there was a lot of back and forth over a 24-hour period over whether the president was misleading essentially. Now, look, the bottom line is there was a big story over a banner. Why does that matter? Well, of course because it essentially has become a symbol for -- certainly the Democrats want it to be -- for whether or not the president really understood and the White House really understood how difficult this post-war conflict would be.

And it's very, very difficult. So it shows how imagery and television doesn't necessarily work the way you want it to.

(CROSSTALK)

CROWLEY: Living by the sword, dying by the sword, you know, is generally -- I mean, I remember when that picture was on the flight deck and I had Democrats -- we were down in South Carolina for a debate going, oh, man. You can't even tell him from the pilots. What a great -- they were quietly very envious and sure it was going to show up in campaign ads.

BASH: And now it might be in the Democrats' campaign ads.

CROWLEY: Exactly. I mean, who knows? But back to sort of earlier, and this is, I think that this White House, as well as anybody who knows how things really do turn on a dime, we are now almost exactly one year out from the November election. In January we thought Iraq would be a great big plus. Now it's not.

We thought the economy was going to kill him. It might not. So we've got a year for this to go up and down, for Iraq to look like a success, not look like a success. But it's really amazing to watch.

BASH: Absolutely. And one thing that the White House is watching, and you see what the president is doing today, are the -- it is Election Day on Tuesday, this coming Tuesday in Mississippi and in Kentucky. The president is out on the campaign trail all day long today talking about campaigning for them. They want to see what happens in these areas to see if it's (UNINTELLIGIBLE), if it's telling it all for what happens next year.

STARR: Well, indeed, President Bush gets his say about what's happening in Iraq in his just-released weekly radio address. We'll listen to that when we're back ON THE STORY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: Thanks to my colleagues and thank you for watching ON THE STORY. We'll be back next week.

Still ahead: "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS" focusing this week on Laci and Scott Peterson and movie star Denzel Washington. At 12:00 noon Easter, 9:00 a.m. Pacific, "CNN LIVE SATURDAY." And at 1:00 p.m. Eastern, 10:00 a.m. Pacific, CNN's "IN THE MONEY" looks at whether money can buy the peace in Iraq. Coming up at the top of the hour, a check of the top stories. But first, the president's weekly radio address.

(BEGIN AUDIOTAPE)

BUSH: Good morning.

This week, terrorists launched a series of attacks in Iraq. Their targets included police stations in Baghdad and Fallujah, the headquarters of the International Red Cross, and living quarters for the Coalition Provisional Authority in Baghdad. The majority of their victims were Iraqis working to rebuild and restore order to their country and citizens of other nations engaged in purely humanitarian missions.

Some of the killers behind the attacks are loyalists of the Saddam regime, who seek to regain power and who resent Iraq's new freedoms. Others are foreigners who have traveled to Iraq to spread fear and chaos and prevent the emergence of a successful democracy in the heart of the Middle East.

They may have different long-term goals, but they share a near- term strategy: to intimidate Iraqis from building a free government and to cause America and our allies to flee our responsibilities. They know that a free Iraq will be free of them and free of the fear in which the ideologies of terror thrive.

During the last two decades, the terrorists grew to believe that if they hit America hard, as in Lebanon and Somalia, America would retreat and back down. Five years ago, one of the terrorists said that an attack could make America run in less than 24 hours. They have learned the wrong lesson.

The United States will complete our work in Iraq. Leaving Iraq prematurely would only embolden the terrorists and increase the danger to America. We are determined to stay to fight and to win. The terrorists and Ba'athists loyal to the old regime will fail because America and our allies have a strategy, and our strategy is working.

First, we are taking this fight to the enemy, moungt raids, seizing weapons and funds and bringing killers to justice. One example is Operation Ivy Focus, a series of aggressive raids by the Army's 4th Infantry Division that in a little over a month has yielded the capture of more than 100 former regime members. In other operations, our soldiers have also seized hundreds of weapons, thousands of rounds of ammunitions and explosives, and hundreds of thousands of dollars suspected of being used to finance terror operations.

Second, we are training an ever increasing number of Iraqis to defend their nation. Today, more than 90,000 Iraqis are serving as police officers, border guards and civil defense personnel. These Iraqi forces are also supplying troops in the field with better intelligence, allowing for greater precision and targeting the enemies of freedom. And we are accelerating our efforts to train and field a new Iraqi army and more Iraqis civil defense forces.

Third, we are implementing a specific plan to transfer sovereignty and authority to the Iraqi people. The Governing Council, made up of Iraqi citizens, has appointed ministers who are responsible for the day-to-day operations of the Iraqi government. The council has also selected a committee that is developing a process through which Iraqis will draft a new constitution for their country. When a constitution has been ratified by the Iraqi people, Iraq will enjoy free and fair elections.

All these efforts are closely linked. As security improves, life will increasingly return to normal in Iraq, and more and more Iraqis will step forward to play a direct role in the rebirth of their country. And as the political process moves forward and more and more Iraqis come to feel they have a stake in their country's future, they will help to secure a better life for themselves and their children.

The terrorists and the Ba'athists hope to weaken our will. Our will cannot be shaken. We're being tested, and America and our allies will not fail.

We will honor the sacrifice of the fallen by ensuring that the cause for which they fought and died is completed. And we will make America safer by helping to transfer Iraq from an exporter of violence and terror into a center of progress of peace.

Thank you for listening.

(END AUDIOTAPE)

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look at How Returning Combat Troops Deal with Killing>


Aired November 1, 2003 - 10:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to CNN's ON THE STORY, where our journalists have the inside word on the stories we covered this week. I'm Barbara Starr, on the story of the big question facing Pentagon planners: how to face the challenge of Iraq and get the people and machines in place to stop the attacks.
JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: I'm Jane Arraf in Baghdad, on the story of fears of a new wave of terror strikes and concerns that deadly attacks could set back hopes for a stable and independent Iraq.

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Rusty Dornin in California. I'll be back later on the story of just how the prosecution is building its case against Scott Peterson and what turned out to be his big secret.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I'm Dana Bash, on the story of how economic news gave President Bush something to cheer about this week.

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: And I'm Candy Crowley on the story of how combat troops returning from Iraq, like those returning from other wars, will cope with killing. We'll be talking about all these stories, and we'll go to California and talk to a CNN field producer covering the wild fires. We'll listen to the president's weekly radio address at the end of the hour.

And we want to hear from you. Email us at onthestory.com. Now right to Jane Arraf and not peace, not war.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These criminals, these terrorists are indiscriminate in terms of who they're attacking, and especially at the start of the holy month of Ramadan. This is a bane on the Iraqi people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ARRAF: Well, it was billed as a day of hell today. Fliers said that it would be a day of vengeance, and a lot of people did stay home. People took their children out of school. But pretty well the rest of the city was essentially normal. Now, it's in indication of how edgy the city is, that people were too afraid to put their children in school. The schools themselves surrounded by U.S. soldiers and Iraqi security forces.

Now, we were listening to L. Paul Bremer, the chief civil administrator, and the top general here just a few moments ago, and they continue to say that things continue to get better. But clearly, that's not the case for a lot of these people who are indeed living in fear in the wake of these strikes.

STARR: Jane, what is the actual mood on the streets of Baghdad? Are Iraqis concerned? Do they feel vulnerable at this point? What are you hearing from them?

ARRAF: You know, Barbara, as we went around today, because really, it is really hard to overemphasize the eerie evening that this city had. There had been the leaflets that were dropped, distributed to schools. There were warnings from the U.S. government, warnings from the Australian government. And nobody really knew what would happen today.

Now, as the morning wore on, people slowly emerged and things got back to normal. Although the schools will remain closed. But people we talked to were saying that really they were miserable because they just never knew when the next strike was going to hit. And we're talking not now attacks on coalition targets or U.S. forces. These are suicide bombs that are killing mostly Iraqis.

The one at the Red Cross, other ones at police stations. Iraqis are the victims. And Iraqis working with Americans are the targets.

CROWLEY: Jane, we have heard, at least during the week, about the possibility that Saddam Hussein was somehow arranging all of this. And we know that early on the Iraqi people were not willing to trust that the U.S. would stay because they feared that Saddam was still around. Do they think in general that Saddam Hussein is behind this?

ARRAF: One of the really interesting things is that every once in a while, quite frequently, actually, there are sightings of him. People swear that they see him. They see him in Fallujah, they see him in Baghdad, they see him in coffee shops.

Now, I think that's probably an indication of how deeply he's engrained in the Iraqi psyche. But, yes, they believe he's still out there and alive, as does Bremer. Bremer said just a few moments ago that they know that Saddam Hussein is alive. They believe he's alive and they believe he's in Iraq.

They still haven't found him, obviously. That's a very tough thing to do. And I think perhaps the difficulty of that is sometimes underestimated. But still, it's clearly a factor that he is still out there. People feel it.

BASH: Jane, President Bush said this week that he thinks that the people responsible for these attacks are either and/or essentially foreign terrorists or Ba'athists or former Ba'athists. What are you hearing about who might be responsible? Is it, do you think, a combination of both? Are they actually working together?

ARRAF: I think you've got to separate the attacks. And what they're saying here increasingly is that these suicide bombs, with the really large amounts of explosives -- and we're talking about something like 1,000 pounds of explosives packed into each car and actual suicide bombs. People who feel so passionately about this, they are killing themselves. Those are said to be the work of foreign fighters, if you will. Just because it has never been a feature of Iraqi attacks to do things that way.

Now, there's also the attacks, the continuing attacks. And at some point, they've reached more than 30 a day of attacks on American soldiers and attacks on coalition targets. And those are more the improvised explosive devices which are essentially homemade bombs, rocket propelled grenades, small arms fire. And those really are thought to be a much more indigenous, homegrown remnants of the Ba'ath Party or one of the many groups or individuals who simply do not want to see the Americans here.

STARR: But is their organization behind all of this, from what you're hearing, or is it just a growing number of people in opposition to the U.S. presence?

ARRAF: It's really hard to put numbers on it. But certainly, I think what we have to remember, what we lose sight of sometimes is, this country was not screaming for the United States to come and rescue it. People very much wanted to be rid of Saddam, but at the same time, for many people, the United States was seen as a necessary evil rather than something they actively wanted.

And now that we're seven months in, people really, really wish that the U.S. troops didn't have to be here. Even if some of them understand and believe why they do have to be there, and even if some of them get along extremely well with the Americans they see patrolling in their neighborhood. I have very rarely heard anyone say that they really want the Americans to stay.

In fact, never. I have never heard anyone say they want the Americans to stay past the point where they absolutely have to. And people really wish that they didn't have to.

STARR: Well, every shot fired in Iraq echoes here in Washington and is heard by the Pentagon brass driving the war. A look at what the U.S. military can do to change tactics when we're back ON THE STORY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Strategy remains the same. The tactics to respond to more suiciders driving cars will alter on the ground. More checkpoints, whatever they decide, how to harden targets will change. And so we're constantly looking at the enemy and adjusting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: President Bush at his Tuesday news conference, saying the strategy remains the same in Iraq, but tactics may change. Welcome back. We're ON THE STORY.

That seemed to be part of the message this week, President Bush going out in the Rose Garden, Secretary Rumsfeld in the briefing room at the Pentagon, after all these attacks, saying look, we know, we understand, we acknowledge, it's very dangerous. And this week, a top military official very privately said now it is a full-blown insurgency, and that means they are acknowledging a real organized effort to overthrow the existing coalition authority there.

We may -- I don't know, Jane. I don't know what your thinking is, but lot of people here seem to think we may look back on this week of bombings and attacks a real change, a seat change in what's going on in Iraq.

ARRAF: You know, we've sort of been expecting to hear that from Pentagon officials and other people here. But we just heard General Sanchez say just a few minutes ago again that over the last sick months they have thought these attacks, felt these attacks, statistically insignificant. And he didn't say anything to indicate that they changed their minds. Is that really what they're still thinking there?

STARR: Well, I think there's statistical insignificance, and then in Washington there's always political significance. If the Bush administration headed into an election season begins to feel the pressure, begins to feel that the public is getting increasingly concerned, I think we're going start seeing some different messages, some different emphasis from the administration.

CROWLEY: Look, I think, you know, obviously there's already political pressure. I hear it on the campaign trail. George Bush hears it all the time. And we just heard Bremer say we're going speed up Iraqis taking over their own security.

Do you get a sense that they're ready for that at all?

STARR: That is really the question. Now at the Pentagon what they're saying is the second largest member of the coalition is the Iraqi security forces. Something like 85,000 people now trained in various Iraqi security functions. Putting the Iraqis on the front line, having them be a very large face of the reconstruction of Iraq.

But that's going to be a very critical question. Can these Iraqis police officers essentially, you know, guard schools, guard market places? Can they keep the Iraqi people safe? What level of confidence will there be in the reconstruction?

Because, at the same time, we are seeing the international organizations, the Red Cross, other organizations pull out of Baghdad, saying it's just too dangerous. So a very mixed picture. And clearly, to be blunt, a lot of people say it may not matter much who's at the front line, the security situation has to improve. These are not the pictures the administration wants to see on TV.

BASH: Barbara, there were a lot of meetings at the White House this week. Secretary Rumsfeld was there, meeting at least two, maybe three days about the situation, about how to change the tactics. What are you hearing about the result of that, beyond transferring power more quick to Iraqis?

STARR: Well, those meetings were very key because, again, it gets to the question, this is now an insurgency effort. General Abizaid, the head of U.S. Central Command, making a strong push, as everyone understands it, for more intelligence resources, more analysts, more translators, much greater intelligence capability on the ground to begin to fight this opposition effort or to pursue fighting it.

They clearly feel this is now a top priority and they need much better intelligence to deal with it. Whether it's Saddam Hussein, Saddam's henchmen, foreigners, Ba'athist loyalists, it doesn't much matter. He's got to find whoever it is and start dealing with them. That's really the key.

And they're going be looking at some very interesting...

ARRAF: Barbara, I'm wondering how much -- I'm wondering how much of an effect these suicide bombers here did have. I mean, here it was really a seat change in terms of not only the suicide bombings, but this wave essentially of what already was quite a limited group of expatriates with humanitarian organizations leaving. Now, here they are pretty well -- officials here are shrugging it off in some sense, but has that really had an impact? Is that really a blow?

STARR: It's another question, Jane, I think -- and Dana can address this -- of the seat change from the beginning of the week in Washington to the end of the week. At the beginning of the week, the president saying, these suicide attacks are an indication the opposition is getting desperate, that they know the U.S. is succeeding.

BASH: Well, they say (ph) a very different tone. The president came out, he had the press conference, and he was very clear that he wanted to make clear that the United States is not going anywhere, but that it is very dangerous. He said the word "dangerous," I don't know, between 10 and 20 times in that press conference.

You're right. Very different. Different from the PR campaign that we were hearing about all the progress. Not so much talk about progress this week. A lot of talk about what they're going to try to do to fix it on the ground. Don't you think?

STARR: Absolutely. More -- it's very interesting. Nobody's talking about it much, but there's some very interesting pieces of classified military technology being shipped over to Iraq to try and deal with the situation.

Just to mention one of the little widgets they're working on, can they develop a system? They're looking at monitoring radio frequencies to see if they can detect what radio frequency explosives are actually being remotely detonated on. Can they monitor that frequency, turn around and detonate the explosive before the insurgents attack U.S. forces?

So they're looking at everything from high-tech solutions to more boots on the ground, in terms of intelligence analysts trying to get a real handle on it. And again, I think the question in Washington is, does it really matter whether it's Saddam or Ba'athist loyalists or foreign terrorists?

As long as people are dying in Iraq they want to get a handle on it. They know that Americans probably don't really care who it is from a political sense. They just don't want to see these pictures on television.

CROWLEY: And the pictures obviously drive what they say. The question is, is there a larger point here -- to you or Jane as to whether there is peace? We keep hearing, well, the problem's in Baghdad, the problem's in Baghdad. You know, is there any way to get a very large picture of whether any progress is being made or is it all suicide bombings?

STARR: Well, there's electricity generation, as Jane knows better than I. Electricity generation is up. The water system is working. Schools are back open.

But Jane, how fragile is all of this when you look at just today schools shutting down because of this day of retribution that's planned? Is the progress fragile?

BASH: Jane, thank you for joining us. I think you have to go get back on to the story there in Iraq. We appreciate you joining us.

And From Iraq to California and to Laci Peterson and the murder case there. Coming up, our Rusty Dornin was in the courtroom for the preliminary hearing and joins us ON THE STORY.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're praying for wisdom for the court and looking forward to seeing the truth come out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DORNIN: It turns out after three days during this preliminary hearing, the truth is coming out. We are hearing more about Scott Peterson and his activities, his alibi. Apparently, Scott Peterson and Laci Peterson's family, neither one of them knew that he had purchased a fishing boat. Members of his family and Laci Peterson's family testified on Friday. The first two days were eaten up by a lot of very complex testimony about mitochondrial DNA and whether a single strand of hair found on pliers found at the bottom of Scott Peterson's boat can be admitted as evidence.

BASH: Rusty, obviously the preliminary hearing is a peek into what the prosecution and defense are planning for the main trial. What did you see that might give you a hint as to what both sides are planning that might be surprising?

DORNIN: Well, it's interesting, because so far it seems that the single strand of hair is going to be a key piece of evidence for the prosecution. And, as I said, they spent two days questioning this FBI DNA expert. The defense is trying fight to fight it and it have thrown out of court, and we're not going hear from the defense expert until Monday.

They are, of course, trying to prove that this mitochondrial DNA is just not reliable. It's not as reliable as other forms of DNA fingerprinting. They want to get it thrown out.

The only day of testimony we've had from any witnesses was yesterday, when we heard from Laci's mother, her sister, and also Scott Peterson's father. They all testified as to the days leading up to when Laci disappeared.

Scott Peterson's father did talk about having a conversation with his son on the day his wife disappeared. He said Scott called him on his cell phone between 12:00 and 2:00 and they talked about what they would be doing from Christmas. Well, between 12:00 and 2:00 is when Scott Peterson said he was fishing in the Berkley Marina, yet he never told his father that he was fishing while he talked to him, and he also never told his father he had bought a boat. So it looks like the prosecution is trying poke holes in his alibi at this point.

CROWLEY: Hey, Rusty, what can you tell us -- I mean, body language in court to me is always fascinating because you've got literally the parents of the murdered person, the parents of the former husband and the accused. What's it like, sort of the dynamic in the court?

DORNIN: Well, when the Rocha family comes in, Laci Peterson's family, there's a whole entourage of family and friends that are invited for that particular day in court. They take up two rows. And they come in at the last.

They are brought in special. No reporters. They don't let anyone talk to them. They sit in the front row.

The Peterson family of course then comes in. There's a smaller group of them.

What was interesting was, when Amy Rocha -- it was the maid that was talking about what Laci Peterson was wearing the day before she disappeared. It was Jackie Peterson, Scott's mother, who began to cry in court.

The other time there were some emotional things going on was when Lee Peterson, Scott's father, took the stand and the first thing he said was, "I am proud to say that Scott is my son." And at that point, Scott Peterson also appeared to be wiping tears away.

There has not been a lot of emotional testimony as of yet. Her mother, Sharon Rocha, took the stand, and she was very direct and did not express very much emotion at all. So, as I said, we've been hearing a lot of complex DNA testimony early on. Yesterday was the first time we heard from the relatives.

STARR: And Rusty, do we expect to hear from Amber Frey?

DORNIN: We expect to hear from Amber Frey sometime next week. Her attorney, Gloria Allred, has been in court every day. As you might have heard, defense attorney Mark Geragos tried to have her excluded from court, saying that she should not be there while other witnesses are testifying because she might tell Amber Frey what went on in court.

The judge just told Gloria Allred that -- not to tell her client any of the goings on in court. But of course Gloria Allred is coming out every day and telling reporters what she thinks about what's going on in the case.

She did not say when her client is coming. She's never actually confirmed that Amber Frey is actually coming. She's only hinted at it. We are assuming that she's coming sometime next week.

BASH: Rusty, tell us about the letter that Scott Peterson wrote, I guess in jail, and what impact that's having or not having on what's going on inside the courtroom.

DORNIN: Well, it's not having an impact of what's going on inside the courtroom. This was also a series of letters that was written apparently in April to a very close friend, where he describes the conditions in jail and sort of how awful that is and one of the letters. In another one he describes how he cries every night when he thinks about his wife and his unborn child, and that he tries to hide his tears from the other inmates so they won't hear him.

He also says that the first time he heard that his wife and son were -- unborn son were definitely dead was when the police arrested him. That was right after they identified the bodies that washed up in April. They arrested Scott Peterson down near a golf course in San Diego. And he claims that it was the detectives that told him that Laci and Connor were dead and that he had no time to really grieve.

STARR: Well, Rusty, thank you. What's on the story for you as you continue to cover the Laci Peterson murder case?

DORNIN: Well, it looks like on Monday we're going to have a lot more complex DNA testimony as the defense expert takes the stand and tries to poke a lot of holes in the reliability of this scientific technique. That will probably take up most of Monday.

And then there will be -- we still have yet to hear from investigators and information on the autopsy and also from Amber Frey. So that's what's going to be coming up next week. This was supposed to end on Tuesday. But now it's looking like it could perhaps go into the end of next week and even perhaps the following week.

STARR: Well, we'll be looking forward to hearing what comes next on that story.

Just ahead: a check on what's making the headlines at this hour. And we'll go to the California wildfires and CNN field producer Traci Tamura.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was very surreal. It's like you're standing there seeing this fire coming close to your house. And you think, no, that's not happening.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CROWLEY: That is Dina Rack (ph) from the suburbs of Stevensons Ranch, one of the people who faced off this week with the California wild fires. Welcome back. We're ON THE STORY.

Joining us now is CNN field producer Traci Tamura, who has been covering the fires this week, back at it today. Traci, I've got to know what this experience is like. How close do you get to those fires? Are you breathing in soot and ash? Do you have a mask? How does that work?

TRACI TAMURA, CNN PRODUCER: Yes. I mean, we're right -- as close as we're kind of allowed to be, which is fairly close. In one case, one of the local trucks went up in flames. And you may have heard about that story.

But every day you come back and your smell of soot -- and it permeates everything. I mean, you take a shower, you still smell it in your hair. So you do get right up there. You have to wear safety goggles, not pretty.

Bad hair. The yellow hat that you have to wear. But that all has to do with falling embers or snags off trees they call when the tops of the trees burn and fall off and could hit you.

So you do have to do all of that. And you definitely are right up there and you feel and smell everything.

STARR: Traci, it seems like you're covering a war, almost, just as much as Iraq is. I mean, you're covering a ground campaign by the firefighters on the ground, air campaign, helicopters and aircraft from the air. Does it feel like that to you?

TAMURA: You know, not having covered a war -- but this is a very unsettling situation. I don't really care to cover fires. I'm sure the people that have their homes destroyed obviously don't want that to happen either. But you almost have to go into it with that kind of a take, I think. You know, you go in and you try to position sat (ph) truck in a way that it can be faced out, that you have to move in a moment's notice. You have to look at where the fire's coming from and judge the winds. It's all of the elements that Mother Nature really dictates and the firefighters that tell you can be there or you got to get out, tell you what to do. So it is very much like a war environment, I guess.

BASH: Traci, we see that people behind you filing into the evacuation center, where you are right now. As you talk to these people who have, I guess hundreds of them, thousands who have lost their homes, lost almost their entire lives, what has surprised you the most about the way that they are approaching the situation?

TAMURA: You know, I think having come here -- I came and visited yesterday. We're here today. There's a certain resiliency.

I mean, the people, I think that they -- you learn to appreciate on the spot what's important. Certainly, they would have liked to have time to get pictures and mementos. But as one woman put it, the family heirlooms just didn't really make sense at that point. It's whatever they could get their hands on -- but as long as their family and their children are safe.

And a lot of the people here, especially parents, really have to show a good face still for the children because they don't know what's going on. And so one woman said, you know, it's only at night where she can really -- where she's laying there and maybe has some tears because during the day she has to be strong for her children.

CROWLEY: What about the other element of this, which is the firefighters? Some are losing their homes even as they're fighting for other people's homes. Is this still gung ho? Are they getting any rest? This has been going on for a week, right?

TAMURA: Yes. I think the weather is helping obviously up in the area where I have been, Lake Arrowhead, Big Bear. It's probably snowing. But the firefighters are amazing. I mean, it's a cliche to say they're the heroes, but they rally are.

I mean, we hung out with a strike team from San Bernardino County, and all their focus was to get in and save whatever they could. I mean, homes were burning down around them. They were still trying to figure out the best positioning, and they were willing to -- even if the fire whipped around and they had to get out, they would reposition and go back in. And, I mean, 48 hours later, on maybe two hours rest, they were still willing to go in, and really they want to beat this thing bad.

STARR: Traci, what do you hear from people there? Do some people say they plan to go back into the hillsides, rebuild their homes? Are they going to pack up and leave forever?

TAMURA: You know, I think it's mixed. At this point, a lot of these people here still, still they haven't been allowed to go back. And even though there may be areas that are cleared and a little bit safer, there's still the power lines, there's still trees that have been burned out. So there's all these safety issues. So it's still mandatory evacuation.

As far as going back and rebuilding, some I think haven't made the decision. Some are choosing to maybe look else where, if they were renting a property up there. So I think it's mixed bag as to what they will do.

There was one family that one of our crews had talked to. And they owned a lot of properties, but the parents that owned it, had their home, they're in their 80s. So they didn't feel like they would probably rebuild. But who knows down the future? I think there's a lot of questions in a lot of their minds.

CROWLEY: Hey, Traci Tamura, thanks so much for joining us. Where are you headed now on the story for the rest of the day?

TAMURA: Well, I'll be working with Frank Buckley on a special for tonight, and we'll probably go back up in the hills and see if the weather is agreeing and how that's going up. So we'll probably go back up to the fire and see what's going on.

CROWLEY: Thanks, Traci.

From California to another kind of battlefield, I'm back talking ON THE STORY in a moment, talking about "CNN Presents" this week, "Fit to Kill." It's a look at how soldiers cope with killing in battle and later back home. One Vietnam veteran talked about how a drowning rescue near here on the Potomac took him right back to southeast Asia.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We called in with some artillery and some napalm and things like that. Some innocent women and children got hit. We met them on the road and they had little girls with noses blown off and, like, husbands carrying their dead wives and things like that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CROWLEY: Corporal Casey Brommer (ph) in Iraq describing a deadly incident there. Part of the "CNN Presents" that plays later here today at 8:00 p.m. Eastern. We call it "Fit to Kill." U.S. military personnel in Iraq, like those who served in past wars, were trained to kill, did their duty, and then they carry back home their memories.

Welcome back. We're ON THE STORY.

You know, we rarely get a chance to kind of sit back and do a story over time. And what I think I love most about this story was just that the World War II veteran we talked about, that 80-year-old, was saying the same things that these 18, 19, 20-year-olds were telling us in Najaf. It was sort of amazing about what it is like to be a farm boy from Iowa who suddenly ends -- is out in a field actually killing people after your whole upbringing is about being kind, being nice.

And then you're sent over there in a wholly different situation. And I was fascinated how that affected them as they came home six years later.

STARR: It's really interesting, because of course this is the part nobody ever really wants to talk about, that essentially, even with all the high tech, all the remote warfare and everything, it still really comes down to kill or be killed. Did you find from these young men that you spoke with that they get any preparation for it before they go?

CROWLEY: No. We didn't get the sense. Andy Siegel (ph), who was the producer on this, also talked to the recruits. And you know, they came out knowing how to kill and revved up to kill because this is how they survive. I mean, this is the difference between coming home and coming home in a body bag.

So the idea of, you'll also have a reaction to killing someone, particularly up close, is not something that's discussed widely and not something really that they think about. This is about survival at the very first. So it's only in the after math that the "I killed someone" effect begins to take effect.

BASH: Well, Barbara asked about preparation. What about when they come home? How much has changed based on what the Pentagon, what the military has learned about what happens to these guys?

CROWLEY: They've learned a lot. I mean, particularly from Vietnam, where -- and one of the main problems in Vietnam they thought was that there was no unit that you stuck with. They brought reinforcements over alone on a plane with a bunch of strangers, dropped them off at the depot, and then they were sort of parched out to a unit, served their year and came back home alone. So they were dealing with the exact same things that everyone else was, but alone.

So they understand that units -- even now in Iraq they are encouraging them in their down times to talk about their experience. There's problems of course when they get home. They have psychological evaluations, along with their health evaluations. And they're hoping that these men who are having some trouble -- and again, the vast majority of them do move on and live wonderful lives, but it takes a while.

BASH: But it is still a stigma, right?

CROWLEY: Absolutely. I mean, one of the great things that one of them over in Iraq said was, "You know, I'm a Marine." You're sitting around going, yes, I dropped that, guy, like it's no big deal. But then he sort of paused and said, "But it is a big deal."

So they're up against this sort of macho culture. And the culture itself is trying to get them to talk. But it's just tough, you know, because your whole thing was to train, and you're tough, and you're a Marine, and you're an infantry. You know, whatever you are, you go out there and this is your job and that's what you do. STARR: And, course, Iraq is a bit of a different circumstance because they're not fighting an enemy in uniform with tanks and guns coming at them. Their enemy is often Iraqis now in civilian clothes, suicide bombers an unseen enemy. It's not the tradition man-on-man warfare, if you will.

CROWLEY: Right. And that's what they found first in the Vietnam, where of course there were a lot of killing of innocents. That the toughest to deal with for anybody is, first of all, killing someone that you don't really know is friend or foe. And in Iraq, that happens a lot.

A truck comes at you (UNINTELLIGIBLE). But they may be loaded with something. So it's -- not only is it the -- what the Pentagon calls those sort of peripheral killings, but it's also the people that you deliberately kill, that then they wonder later, gee, was that a civilian or was that a military? So a lot of doubt comes up.

And the worst thing, of course, is when you kill up close. And there's a lot of that that went on in Iraq, as it went on in Vietnam and in places in World War II. So they know that the most difficult circumstances are when you wonder, did I shoot at the right person, or was that an innocent?

BASH: Are there any programs in place to hook up the generations, to have somebody who was a veteran of World War II talk to somebody coming back from Iraq, almost to make them feel better, if you will, to say, you're not alone, this happens no matter what generation, no matter what war?

CROWLEY: The do have -- you know, they've got Army chaplains, they've got Army psychiatrists across the military. That I know of, they don't. But there are a lot of veterans that do frequent bases, that do talk to them. They're certainly there.

STARR: You know, it's very interesting, because the Vietnam generation is really taking part in all of this. What we learned a few weeks ago, there are Vietnam veterans who are amputees, for example, that are going up to Walter Reed Hospital here in Washington, D.C., visiting with returning Iraqi veterans, young kids, 22 years old who are also amputees.

Not directly addressing the question of killing, but they're telling these young men coming back from a war, it will be all right. You'll get through it. You got to make the effort and get back to your life. So there is a connection across the generations now.

BASH: Well, we're going to go now from the battlefield to the political arena. And President Bush is on the campaign trail today and gets his bragging rights to the fastest economic growth since the 1980s. We're back ON THE STORY in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BUSH: I will defend my record at the appropriate time. I look forward to it. I'll say that the world is more peaceful and more free under my leadership. And America's more secure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: President Bush on Tuesday. One part of the Bush record he was eager to defend this week, his economic policies. Word that the economy in July, August and September grew 7.2 percent, the fastest rate since 1984.

Welcome back. We're ON THE STORY.

And if we were allowed to roam around the White House, which, of course, we're not, we would have seen dancing in the hallways on Thursday when these economic numbers came out. They were prepared for good news. They had sort of laid the groundwork, starting on Monday, for a mini PR campaign.

They had booked their top economic advisers on shows. They were ready with press releases the minute these numbers came out. And of course, the president came out, he was traveling in Ohio. And he said what he's been waiting to say for a long time, I'm vindicated. My tax cuts, almost $2 trillion that he signed into law, are actually working. So with all the bad news on Iraq, this was definitely something that they were quite happy about.

CROWLEY: And just one small problem. Not to rain on their parade, about three million jobs, many of which won't come back in the manufacturing area. What was their response to that? I mean, it still -- we did get some jobs in September, I think.

BASH: Yes. A few.

CROWLEY: But, you know, it's still a problem for him, is it not?

BASH: Yes. They know that. That is, of course, the one area where the Democrats can still sort of rail on the White House. And they certainly did.

But privately, they say they absolutely know that. And Candy, as you well know, it's politically a very tough situation, the jobs situation for the White house, because -- if you look at the map, the political map, it is the key industrial swing states that have lost the most jobs, the most jobs, as you say, in manufacturing. And economists say those jobs aren't coming back, which is why, as happy and elated as they were, you heard -- the very next sentence was, for the president and his aides, we're not going rest until everybody has a job. They're going to keep pounding away on that issue because they know it is a big problem.

STARR: Because the question is whether or not this is all going to be sustainable. Will it last? Is this a one-quarter phenomenon? Has the tax cut worked its way through the economy and that's all the good they're going to get from it? BASH: And that's the answer -- they don't know the answer to that question, which is -- but that is another reason why, in the expectations game of politics, they were also very careful. The president himself said in his speech that this isn't going to be this good. I mean, they were shocked at how good this number was, the best since Ronald Reagan was the president.

It's not going to be this good in the future. But they are pointing to other signs in the economy. They continue to talk about the fact that, although jobs are bad, it's a bad time for them, they say that most Americans, the majority of Americans are now investors and the stock market is a key thing that they point to. They talk about home sales going up.

So they talk about other parts of the economy. But the answer is, we don't know. And of course we are still a year away from the election.

STARR: So Candy, from the campaign trail, how do the Democrats deal with all of this?

CROWLEY: Well, that's really great, but it's only one quarter. And it's going to take more than one quarter of good news to, you know -- I mean, it was pretty predictable stuff. I mean, you really -- I mean, as horrible as this sounds, you know the economy getting better is not the best thing for Democrats.

Interesting how it's turned topsy-turvy, because now of course Iraq is the big thing that they're pounding the president on. Who would have thunk it?

BASH: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) job so much fun. You never know what's going to happen.

CROWLEY: You never know what's going to happen. And we had that whole mission accomplished thing come up again. And I wanted to ask you about that and how that all transpired.

BASH: That was one of the most interesting things, if not the most interesting thing of the president's press conference this week. On Tuesday, only his 10th formal press conference of his presidency, he was asked a lot about Iraq. And he was asked specifically whether or not he declared major combat over too early, when he had that carrier landing, the picture we've all seen with the banner "Mission Accomplished" behind him.

And he chose to say, really unsolicited, well, that mission accomplished banner, we didn't put up that. The Navy put that up. Which was almost uncharacteristic of this president because he generally doesn't assign blame.

He's been asked a question about this many times and he hasn't offered this information. So Barbara, as you know, we came in and contacted you and said, "How do we contact the Navy? Is this so?"

It turns out the Navy said it was definitely their idea. However, we learned later, and the White House admitted, the White House did actually make the banner. They actually did make it.

So there was a lot of back and forth over a 24-hour period over whether the president was misleading essentially. Now, look, the bottom line is there was a big story over a banner. Why does that matter? Well, of course because it essentially has become a symbol for -- certainly the Democrats want it to be -- for whether or not the president really understood and the White House really understood how difficult this post-war conflict would be.

And it's very, very difficult. So it shows how imagery and television doesn't necessarily work the way you want it to.

(CROSSTALK)

CROWLEY: Living by the sword, dying by the sword, you know, is generally -- I mean, I remember when that picture was on the flight deck and I had Democrats -- we were down in South Carolina for a debate going, oh, man. You can't even tell him from the pilots. What a great -- they were quietly very envious and sure it was going to show up in campaign ads.

BASH: And now it might be in the Democrats' campaign ads.

CROWLEY: Exactly. I mean, who knows? But back to sort of earlier, and this is, I think that this White House, as well as anybody who knows how things really do turn on a dime, we are now almost exactly one year out from the November election. In January we thought Iraq would be a great big plus. Now it's not.

We thought the economy was going to kill him. It might not. So we've got a year for this to go up and down, for Iraq to look like a success, not look like a success. But it's really amazing to watch.

BASH: Absolutely. And one thing that the White House is watching, and you see what the president is doing today, are the -- it is Election Day on Tuesday, this coming Tuesday in Mississippi and in Kentucky. The president is out on the campaign trail all day long today talking about campaigning for them. They want to see what happens in these areas to see if it's (UNINTELLIGIBLE), if it's telling it all for what happens next year.

STARR: Well, indeed, President Bush gets his say about what's happening in Iraq in his just-released weekly radio address. We'll listen to that when we're back ON THE STORY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: Thanks to my colleagues and thank you for watching ON THE STORY. We'll be back next week.

Still ahead: "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS" focusing this week on Laci and Scott Peterson and movie star Denzel Washington. At 12:00 noon Easter, 9:00 a.m. Pacific, "CNN LIVE SATURDAY." And at 1:00 p.m. Eastern, 10:00 a.m. Pacific, CNN's "IN THE MONEY" looks at whether money can buy the peace in Iraq. Coming up at the top of the hour, a check of the top stories. But first, the president's weekly radio address.

(BEGIN AUDIOTAPE)

BUSH: Good morning.

This week, terrorists launched a series of attacks in Iraq. Their targets included police stations in Baghdad and Fallujah, the headquarters of the International Red Cross, and living quarters for the Coalition Provisional Authority in Baghdad. The majority of their victims were Iraqis working to rebuild and restore order to their country and citizens of other nations engaged in purely humanitarian missions.

Some of the killers behind the attacks are loyalists of the Saddam regime, who seek to regain power and who resent Iraq's new freedoms. Others are foreigners who have traveled to Iraq to spread fear and chaos and prevent the emergence of a successful democracy in the heart of the Middle East.

They may have different long-term goals, but they share a near- term strategy: to intimidate Iraqis from building a free government and to cause America and our allies to flee our responsibilities. They know that a free Iraq will be free of them and free of the fear in which the ideologies of terror thrive.

During the last two decades, the terrorists grew to believe that if they hit America hard, as in Lebanon and Somalia, America would retreat and back down. Five years ago, one of the terrorists said that an attack could make America run in less than 24 hours. They have learned the wrong lesson.

The United States will complete our work in Iraq. Leaving Iraq prematurely would only embolden the terrorists and increase the danger to America. We are determined to stay to fight and to win. The terrorists and Ba'athists loyal to the old regime will fail because America and our allies have a strategy, and our strategy is working.

First, we are taking this fight to the enemy, moungt raids, seizing weapons and funds and bringing killers to justice. One example is Operation Ivy Focus, a series of aggressive raids by the Army's 4th Infantry Division that in a little over a month has yielded the capture of more than 100 former regime members. In other operations, our soldiers have also seized hundreds of weapons, thousands of rounds of ammunitions and explosives, and hundreds of thousands of dollars suspected of being used to finance terror operations.

Second, we are training an ever increasing number of Iraqis to defend their nation. Today, more than 90,000 Iraqis are serving as police officers, border guards and civil defense personnel. These Iraqi forces are also supplying troops in the field with better intelligence, allowing for greater precision and targeting the enemies of freedom. And we are accelerating our efforts to train and field a new Iraqi army and more Iraqis civil defense forces.

Third, we are implementing a specific plan to transfer sovereignty and authority to the Iraqi people. The Governing Council, made up of Iraqi citizens, has appointed ministers who are responsible for the day-to-day operations of the Iraqi government. The council has also selected a committee that is developing a process through which Iraqis will draft a new constitution for their country. When a constitution has been ratified by the Iraqi people, Iraq will enjoy free and fair elections.

All these efforts are closely linked. As security improves, life will increasingly return to normal in Iraq, and more and more Iraqis will step forward to play a direct role in the rebirth of their country. And as the political process moves forward and more and more Iraqis come to feel they have a stake in their country's future, they will help to secure a better life for themselves and their children.

The terrorists and the Ba'athists hope to weaken our will. Our will cannot be shaken. We're being tested, and America and our allies will not fail.

We will honor the sacrifice of the fallen by ensuring that the cause for which they fought and died is completed. And we will make America safer by helping to transfer Iraq from an exporter of violence and terror into a center of progress of peace.

Thank you for listening.

(END AUDIOTAPE)

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