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On the Story
Assassination of John F. Kennedy 40-years-ago; Is it really getting better in Iraq?
Aired November 22, 2003 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KELLY WALLACE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to CNN's ON THE STORY, where our journalists have the inside word on the stories we covered this week. I'm Kelly Wallace, in Dallas, on the story of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, here, 40 years ago today, and how that day burns in the national memory.
JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: I'm Jane Arraf in Baghdad, on the story of suicide bombs, rocket attacks, surface-to-air missiles, and whether it's really getting better.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: I'm Barbara Starr on the videophone from Doha, Qatar, where U.S. military commanders are beefing up their headquarters to deal with the fighting in Iraq.
KATHLEEN HAYS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Kathleen Hays, in New York, on the story of superstar Michael Jackson, the arrest, and the fallout for the entertainment business.
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: I'm Andrea Koppel in Atlanta, on the story of President Bush in Britain, facing up to opposition on Iraq policy.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Elizabeth Cohen, also in Atlanta, on the story of warnings that this year's bout of flu could be especially troubling.
Also coming up, remember the August blackout? Well, who's to blame?
And the big hepatitis outbreak in Pennsylvania. What are the lessons there?
And we'll listen to the president's radio address at the end of the hour.
E-mail us at onthestory@cnn.com. Now straight ahead to Jane Arraf in Iraq and fighting back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIG. GEN. MARTIN DEMPSEY, COMMANDER, 1ST ARMORED BRIGADE: I'd say that from the period prior to Operation Iron Hammer to now, the attacks are down about 70 percent. And we're working as hard as we possibly can to keep it that way and drive it to zero.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ARRAF: That was Brigadier General Martin Dempsey, talking on Thursday about the situation in Baghdad, saying that they are making progress. But, you know, some days it really doesn't seem that way. Just this morning, two suicide bombs at police stations. And this is one of the saddest things you see.
These police stations are much less well protected than the American military ones. In these attacks, at least 19 people dead, many of them police officers, 25 wounded. And it has just gone on. Now, no injuries in this one, but you couldn't really send a worse public relations message.
A surface-to-air missile actually hit a civilian plane today, a DHL carrier. The engine caught on fire. It landed safely. No injuries. But, again, a horrendous message to send.
And just a couple of days ago in this room -- there's normally glass behind me here, but this was a room that was hit by two rockets in that incredible rocket attack from carts propelled by donkeys on this hotel, another one across the street, and at the oil ministry. All in all, the military keeps saying it's getting better, but for a lot of Iraqis, it just doesn't feel that way.
HAYS: Jane, certainly from our perspective here in the United States watching this, it makes us wonder about security. It makes us wonder about the U.S. administration, the military commanders there, preparing to try to hand over more of the policing and the security of the nation to Iraqi forces. What do these latest events do to that?
ARRAF: It's got to have an impact, Kathleen. I mean, that is the thing. They keep saying that it's going to get safer when they can withdraw.
And in fact, there is the plan that we know of, that they're hoping -- the U.S. military is hoping they can withdraw from the center of Baghdad, for instance, out to the outskirts. Because they feel they're attracting these attacks. But to do that, they really have to hand over power to the Iraqi police.
And these are the same policemen who tell us over and over, they don't have uniforms, they don't have guns, they don't have cars. In fact, they're afraid to wear their uniforms in the street, they say, because they could be shot. There's just a long way to go on this.
STARR: You know, Jane, that seems to be the really critical issue that's going to be on the front burners (UNINTELLIGIBLE). The administration keeps saying Iraqi security forces are taking over more of the security inside Iraq, that they are now the second largest member of the coalition. But if these suicide bombers, these attacks now really do turn against the Iraqi security forces, will these Iraqis really stay with the program? Will they continue to want to be part of the security apparatus, or will this (UNINTELLIGIBLE) establish a really well-trained Iraqi security force?
ARRAF: You know, one of the only reasons they're staying with this program or any program where they are really in danger -- and we see that all the way from police to civil defense forces, to even Iraqi translators with the military -- is that there are no jobs. And that's a really negative reason, and not one that's really solid.
But a lot of these police officers are risking their lives literally every day for $150 a month. But still, a lot more than they would be making if they weren't working. But it's not that much when it comes to people who are supporting perhaps 10 or 20 people in a family.
So it is -- it seems to be impacting a little bit. But as long as the economy is so bad, as long as the economy is getting back up into shape to support a more secure environment, people are still going to line up for those jobs it seems.
WALLACE: Jane, are your sources indicating that they believe these attacks are all coordinated and a stepped-up strategy to target the Iraqi security officers, as opposed to the U.S. troops inside the country?
ARRAF: That's a really interesting and very diffuse thing. And I'd love to hear what you're hearing about this in Washington. But here, they seem to be breaking it up into two different categories.
One is, these things like improvised explosive devices, as they call them, those are essentially homemade bombs. Now, those are believed to be laid primarily by Iraqis and, in some cases, just common criminals who are doing it for money. But then you go into the region of suicide bombers, and Iraq has never really been the kind of place where people are passionate about religion or ideology to blow themselves up. It just does not have that history. They are still blaming foreign fighters for that.
And then in between, we have all of these other things. The rocket attacks, which are obviously well planned, well executed. So far, they haven't seemed to be able to make a lot of inroads. And they say these are quite possibly just a few people creating a lot of problems. But until they get that better intelligence through the police, through Iraqi civil defense, it's just not going to happen it seems.
HAYS: And Jane, when you mention the economy and jobs, I think about oil, because certainly there has been progress made in starting to restore the oilfields. But when you think about really getting this Iraqi economy back on its feet, when you think about paying for reconstruction, the U.S. hoping that the oil revenues might be able to assist with that, you kind of wonder if the security is still dicey. How much then in jeopardy is the future of the oil industry there?
ARRAF: Absolutely, you're so right. It is key. It's the key to all of this in a sense.
And just last week, this entire city, the capital, was plunged into darkness when an electrical line was tripped. That affected the refineries. It's affected gasoline supplies. It's affected the oil industry in general. It's just very, very vulnerable still to sabotage, to the fact that these lines and the industry itself are in such bad repair. And one of the most frustrating things for Iraqis, I've got to say, is to have to stand in line for hours on end, which they do, in these stalled cars that have run out of gas. This, in a country that is awash with oil.
There are very few things that make Iraqis more angry than that. And it's making them very, very angry, the fact that you still see incredibly long lineups for gasoline here.
STARR: Well, U.S. military managed (UNINTELLIGIBLE). I'm back on that story in just a moment
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. JOHN ABIZAID, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: In all, I would say that the force of people actively armed and operating against us does not exceed 5,000.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: General John Abizaid (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
HAYS: All right. I'm afraid we're having a little bit of difficulty with Barbara Starr's audio, as you can tell. So we are going to get back to Jane Arraf in Iraq.
You know, General John Abizaid, the commander of U.S. Central Command, is calling the shots in Iraq now. Been giving his opinion on the deadly attacks that can be blamed on a small group, some 5,000 fighters. You know we are ON THE STORY here, dealing with our -- trying to take care of our many far-flung reporters.
Jane, what is the reaction? Again, this question of whether the forces have to be beefed up -- again, forces being beefed up in Qatar for the first time since the war began. It seems that within the Bush administration, we see them going one way, let's reduce force, and then very quickly saying, I guess we can't. What is the reaction there?
ARRAF: It is really tricky. And probably, you get the same sense here of not quite knowing the best way to approach this. Now, in terms of Baghdad versus the rest of the country, it really does seem to be a striking difference, and something that we've got to keep exploring. Because in Baghdad, they say the operations they're mounting against whoever's behind these attacks have been paying off the past few weeks, that attacks are decreasing.
But when you get outside of Baghdad, it's a completely different story. The attacks are increasing. And on top of that, you do have what seem to be increasing number of attacks, like today's, suicide bombs against Iraqi police, which do almost as much damage.
Now, if the U.S. plan is to withdraw some of its force, although they do not like that word, withdraw, keep them to the sidelines perhaps, central Baghdad, to make them less visible and less of a target, and therefore to let Iraqis take more control of their security, that obviously would not require so many troops. But it really remains to be seen whether that is a viable plan at this point.
WALLACE: Jane (UNINTELLIGIBLE) security situation? We of course saw attacks targeting hotels in Baghdad, where journalist, including yourself, are staying. I mean, how much of a concern is there on the part of journalists? And are you seeing some people deciding to pull out because they're so concerned about their own safety inside the country?
ARRAF: You know, it hasn't been a great week. There were the rocket attacks on these hotels. And again, behind me, this used to be a nice sort of glass window with aluminum. There were two rocket strikes that came through this room.
Now, my room is directly across. And we have other people directly next to us. We were all incredibly lucky, as were most people in this hotel.
There was one injury in a hotel with 500 people. But there were the rocket attacks. And then today, the surface-to-air missile hitting.
Now, it was a DHL cargo plane, but the effect has been that the only commercial carrier here really, that journalists use, has announced that it's suspending its flights for a few days to think about it. So it does remain dangerous, but it's always been dangerous. And that is an assessment that a lot of people -- I know a lot of you all make when you're in this region as well, and in other regions, that it's worth the risks.
There are a few people pulling out. But most of the journalists here, I think, are really committed to following this through and seeing exactly what's going to happen here. It's amazing, it's fascinating. You can't not be here.
KOPPEL: Actually Jane, my question comes off of Kelly's, and that is, the Palestine Hotel for the first time was struck on Friday, yesterday. What -- and that's where you're staying and many of your journalist colleagues. How does that play upon you psychologically, to be in a building that you're living in, you're working in, and it's now been a terrorist target?
ARRAF: You have to assume here that pretty well anywhere is a terrorist target. And the Palestine, you'll remember, during the war, there's still a cannon hole here from when a cannon shot was fired by a U.S. tank. They said, of course, that they were aiming at snipers, but two journalists were killed here.
Now, the fact remains that, proportionately, more journalists have been killed than U.S. soldiers have been killed. So it is a dangerous place for a number of reasons. There are potential attacks from U.S. forces, from Iraqi forces, just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Now, it's -- it comes down to, I suppose, how strongly you feel one needs the media here. And I think we all feel really strongly that you just cannot abandon this country. You can't abandon this story. We've been here, as you all know, and a lot of you have been here, for a long, long time. And now is not the time to leave, certainly when there's so much at stake here.
HAYS: All right. Jane Arraf, thank you. Barbara Starr, I'm sorry, we could not get to that the way we had hoped to. But we thank both of them.
CNN just learning some breaking news. Georgian President Eduard Shevardnadze declaring a state of emergency after opposition forces overran parliament. A breaking story, of course. We'll be following this throughout the day on CNN, and even ON THE STORY, as this unfolds.
For now, we are going to continue in just a moment ON THE STORY. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An arrest warrant for Mr. Jackson has been issued on multiple counts of child molestation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK GERAGOS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: He is greatly outraged by the bringing of these charges. He considers this to be a big lie.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYS: The sheriff and Michael Jackson's lawyer. The opening shots in what promises to be a very long, very expensive, very public legal and public relations battle. Welcome back. We're ON THE STORY.
Michael Jackson, the king of pop 1982 -- remember "Thriller" sold 26 million copies worldwide? According to the Guinness Book of World Records, this album sold more copies than any other in history.
Some say he has had, in many ways, a somewhat tragic career. That was really the height of it. And, of course, these latest allegations, a pending trial, a very tough point in a career that was already, some would say, in a downslide.
KOPPEL: Kathleen, I'm kind of curious what you and our colleague, Kelly, there, think about this. I'm personally very torn about the amount of coverage that you give to a story like this. Obviously, he is a mega super-duper star, and this is a very serious story. But, you know, you cover the economy, usually. Do you see that this is a story that deserves the kind of wall-to-wall coverage that all networks are giving it?
HAYS: Well, I think from -- that's a very good question, because does this affect the economy? No. Does it have a money angle? Of course it does.
Certainly, the money comes in from the point of view that Jackson supporters say, once again, this is about extorting money from a man who was vulnerable in the public eye and who has the money to get. The other money aspect of it, of course, is that he's hugely successful. He made more than half a billion dollars in his career, although now he faces a crash crunch. He also has a very lavish lifestyle.
I think when you sit back and look at the coverage, we also look at somebody who grew up in the public eye. The Jackson Five burst out -- was he about 5 years old when he started in national television, a huge recording artist? I think he grows up, a man, again, who was never -- the child molestation charges of 1993 were never proven one way or the other, something that was settled.
And I just think it resonates for many people, that now that many Michael Jackson fans are older, they're parents now, too. And I think they feel torn. I just think it grabs people on many levels. And probably the coverage is and will be excessive, but I think there's a reason why it hooks people really on a gut level.
COHEN: Kathleen, I know many parents have this question, which is, why would you let your child have a sleepover at Neverland?
HAYS: That's -- I think that was my reaction, too. And as soon as I had that reaction, Elizabeth, I thought, I'm doing what everybody else is doing, and again, what his supporters say we shouldn't do.
We should not lynch him in the media. In this country, everyone's innocent until proven guilty. But I think his eccentric behavior -- I think people always wondered somewhat why Michael Jackson has so many children around him. He's contributed lots of money to children's causes. The Neverland Ranch frequently brings in kids just for the thrill of seeing Michael Jackson, underprivileged kids.
The young man around whom the allegations center had a cancer diagnosis two years ago. It was his last wish to meet Michael Jackson. I, as a parent, agree with you, any cloud of question, I would not let my child be unsupervised in a home privately with someone like this. At the same time, again there are allegations.
So much is out there that is from this source and that source, we really don't know what to think. But one of the stories I read said that actually family members were present when this alleged molestation took place. So it's getting murkier and murkier. But one thing is for sure, this time, Michael Jackson, unless the judge decides not to take this to trial, and that's the first question that's asked, may very well stand trial and have a chance to exonerate himself or have this kind of charge proven once and forever.
WALLACE: You know, it's interesting. This issue will probably be debated in journalism classes for years to come. How much is the public really fascinated with this subject, or how much is the news media just always interested in such a fascinating subject? But I don't know that we have the answer to that.
My question to you, though, is, the entertainment industry, what's the sense that these allegations alone, what impact could they have on Michael Jackson's already sagging career?
HAYS: Well you know this same week is the week that his greatest hits album, "Number Ones," was being released. CBS was supposed to air a Michael Jackson special. They said it wouldn't really be appropriate now. So that's been put on the shelf.
His career was already eclipsed by a big change in music. You know, Michael Jackson was a star in the disco era, "Thriller," "Beat It," songs you could dance to. What really eclipsed him was hip-hop, a totally different direction in the music world that comes out of the streets, that features like, aggressive, masculine images.
Michael Jackson, the ultimate symbol of androgyny, in terms of what it means for the business and for his career. One Hollywood reporter I talked to said if Michael's found guilty, maybe this does just put the final touch on the downturn in his career, but what if he is exonerated? He said, can you imagine the comeback tour, you know, the TV specials, the new album?
So who knows. I mean, at this point, I don't want to make light of it, but it remains to be seen what happens. But it would also seem that having these child molestation charges resurrected again is not good.
Another reporter I spoke to said anecdotally that he was picking up his 11-year-old son from school, and said kids had already downloaded some Michael Jackson pictures from the Internet, and they were commenting on how weird this guy was. Certainly, if he had any hope of building a younger audience, that could be totally out of the window with this.
But Michael Jackson fans seem to be people who were going out and having a good time, again, in the '80s. That's an older generation, and many of those people are still fans and apparently are not deserting him yet.
WALLACE: What's the sense from anyone on the panel if Michael Jackson does a full PR offensive, which he's likely to do, will that help him in the public eye in fighting these allegations?
COHEN: It seems to me that no matter what he says -- and we heard his lawyer say earlier, it's all a lie, it's a big lie. I mean, that's what people expect him to say. I don't know what he could say at this point, short of showing some real evidence that would really convince people that all these years these allegations were wrong. WALLACE: Well, Elizabeth, from questions about Michael Jackson to a much, much different story, the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, 40 years ago today. A story, a development that shook the world. I'm back ON THE STORY live from Dealey Plaza in Dallas after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Suddenly, a sound, gunshot. Hard to tell above the clamor of the crowd. The president bent forward into his wife's lap, as his arms slipped off the side of the car.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: A riveting account from Margaret Taylor (ph), a woman reading from a letter left by an eyewitness to history. Live pictures now from Dealey Plaza, the site that shook the world 40 years ago, the place where John F. Kennedy, 35th president of the United States, was assassinated.
That letter written by June Deshong (ph). She was standing here at Dealey Plaza. She watched what happened, and she went home and she wrote it all down in a journal. But she never shared it with her family or her friends or her colleagues. It wasn't found until five years ago, just after she died, right before her 90th birthday.
We see a steady stream of visitors coming to this site today, some to remember the late president. But others still looking for answers. Not believing that one lone gunman, Lee Harvey Oswald, could be responsible for such a national tragedy.
HAYS: Kelly, is there anything in this woman's accounts, which are so fascinating, as her daughter said. It takes you there, again, to that moment. Anything in what she wrote that would either support the sole gunman theory or add to this idea that there may have been some kind of conspiracy that the Warren Commission didn't uncover?
WALLACE: Yes. And an important point, she was never interviewed by the Warren Commission because she didn't come forward. But if you look at her letter, she does say that there were three shots. She heard one shot, then a second shot, and then a third shot.
The number of shots has long been a controversy, because others believe there could have been more shots, and that other shots could have been fired from this fence here over the grassy knoll. The Warren Commission, though, found that there were three shots all fired by Lee Harvey Oswald. So her account would seem to bolster, at least in some ways, the Warren Commission report.
KOPPEL: Kelly, we know the range of potential conspiracy theories from -- it was the Cubans, it was the Mafia, it was even then Vice President Johnson. But what was it that the Warren Commission came up with that led them to believe that it could only have been Lee Harvey Oswald? WALLACE: A number of things, Andrea. Mainly, of course, that very famous -- probably the most famous home video ever shot, the Zapruder film by Abraham Zapruder. Looking at that film, looking at the, you know, eyewitness accounts, looking at the rifle, looking at Lee Harvey Oswald's background, looking at the kind of direction of the shots hitting President Kennedy. And, of course, one shot also hitting president -- Texas Governor John Connelly.
There was the single bullet theory. And this has been one of the big controversies. The Warren Commission finding that one of the bullets actually went through President Kennedy and then hit and entered Texas Governor John Connelly. lot of people disagree with that. But that finding is what bolstered, in some way, the Warren Commission report, that it believed there were three shots and that Oswald, solely behind this, and no big conspiracy that he acted alone.
COHEN: Kelly, millions of people visit Dealey Plaza where you are right now. Why do you think there's still such a draw and such a fascination, 40 years later?
WALLACE: It's everything from the life of the 35th president, President Kennedy, and his wife, of course, Jackie Kennedy. They were young, they were beautiful. A time of enormous promise and optimism in the country. And, of course, what happened here 40 years ago and the fact that the conspiracy theorists continue.
You also had the movie by Oliver Stone in 1991 which gave a credibility to the sense that there was a greater conspiracy and that it wasn't just Oswald and that there was a cover-up. And you do find, in terms of people, at least, who were not alive in 1963, the younger generation, they seem to come here just as fascinated. But many people coming here because they don't believe what they've been told so far. And so there's this continued sense of trying to discover, and will we ever never know, exactly what happened 40 years ago today.
HAYS: Kelly, by contrast, interesting the people that don't go there, and that's mostly members of the Kennedy family. A very painful memory for them, and one that they actually would prefer not to see so highlighted in some ways.
WALLACE: It's so interesting, Kathleen. As we were reading up, and looking at documentaries, and reading articles that Dallas is a huge city. This is not a small place. And the fact that, really no major member of the Kennedy family coming to Dallas since 1963.
I believe Eunice Kennedy Shriver, one of the only Kennedy family members who has ever visited a museum that was created 14 years ago. That museum very much dedicated to President Kennedy's life, and walking a very delicate line, not really taking a position on what happened. Presenting information on his life, information about what happened and the various theories there.
But there's no official ceremony going on here. There never really is, every anniversary year. And that is in keeping with the Kennedy family's desire to remember the president on his birthday, to remember his life, and not the tragic way he died. KOPPEL: Kelly, I don't think I'm giving away any secrets here to say that you weren't born 40 years ago, when President Kennedy was assassinated. But what it is like for you to be sitting there right in the middle of where all this happened?
WALLACE: Well, no major development there, right. Not alive that day. But, of course, it's something we always ask. We ask our parents. I asked my mother, my father where they were on that day, November 22, 1963.
They know exactly what they were doing, just as most of us who were not alive that day remember what we were doing on September 11. A couple of observations. Number one, it is so small. It appears a much smaller area in person than it seems to be in video clips or in photographs.
And also, the sense of how much this area is almost frozen in time. That building behind me, that is the former Texas Schoolbook Depository building, where the fatal shots are believed to have been fired from. It is intact.
You have this whole area, the grassy knoll. It's almost exactly as it was in 1963. And that is quite moving and, of course, so sad.
So sad to think of what happened here. Someone who has covered presidents as well, to think of what an impact this was on the whole administration, on Secret Service, and on the entire country and the world. It's very moving and a solemn, very solemn place.
KOPPEL: And it was, we learned from the CNN documentary that's airing again later today, the beginning of really what we do, the live coverage of news that day, November 22, 40 years ago. Kelly Wallace, thank you so much for joining us.
We've got the shock of events 40 years ago, to the present challenge of charting the course for the U.S. in a world rocked by new terrorism strikes and new attacks in Iraq. I'm back on that story in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: Those of our critics who say you're not moving fast enough, you ought to turn over sovereignty tomorrow, my answer is to who, to what, to what institution with what legitimacy?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KOPPEL: Secretary of State Colin Powell voicing frustration with some of the critics of U.S. policy in Iraq. Welcome back. We're ON THE STORY.
Well, of course, now -- and what we're talking about is in recent weeks -- the Bush administration has made a pretty significant shift in course regarding handing over sovereignty to the Iraqi people, rather than saying, it's going to happen after we write a constitution, after we have new elections. We don't know when that will be.
They're saying no, this is something that they could see doing as soon as June, and handing it over not to a freely elected body of Iraqis, but rather to this provisional government, which most likely will be a lot of familiar figures that we've been seeing from the Iraqi Governing Council who, by the way, were primarily handpicked by the U.S.
COHEN: Andrea, during this trip that Bush took to England this week, there seemed a strange dichotomy. Bush and Blair have such a close relationship. But on the other hand, in the rest of England, there seems to be a strong dislike for President Bush. How did they handle that?
KOPPEL: Well, with a lot of security. Obviously, security for potential -- to thwart potential terrorist attacks. But also, they did -- the British government did go out of its way, spending $9 million to try to keep a lot of these demonstrators away from President Bush.
This was supposed to be a victory lap for these two leaders. They planned the trip last spring after the war in Iraq. They thought it had ended on a successful note.
And what they saw, in fact, was -- at least the British people looking at it, saying, well, what have we gotten out of this? We have tens of thousands of our soldiers over there. They are dying, alongside American forces and some other coalition troops. But, hey, we wanted a couple things from you.
We wanted to find out about the release of nine British citizens who have been held by the United States in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, since the war in Afghanistan, which began two years ago. And they also wanted some kind of break from U.S. tariffs on steel imports, neither of which they got. So the British people are really upset.
HAYS: Of course, part of the problem there, of course, is the second attack in Turkey in a week took place last week in Istanbul. And that seems to have taken up some time and attention of these two leaders as well. So I wonder, is that the kind of thing, Andrea, that maybe drives them closer together, maybe even increases some support in the U.K. for the war on terror, the war in Iraq, or is it something that drives a bigger wedge?
KOPPEL: Difficult to say, at this point, Kathleen. I think we have to wait to see when polls are done among the British citizens to see how they react. I don't think it is a surprise to anyone living in the world today that there are terrorists out there who are going after the United States and its allies or governments that support the United States. Those two attacks, one against the British Consulate, the other against one of the major British banks in Istanbul, happened at a very unfortunate time. Both leaders, however -- you heard Prime Minister Blair, you heard President Bush reiterating what has been the theme, the mantra of the last two-plus years. And that is, the war against terrorism is something very serious. We need to band together to fight it. But, clearly, this is not a war the Bush administration or the Blair administration can say they are necessarily going to wrap up anytime soon. This is an ongoing battle.
WALLACE: Andrea, what are your sources telling you? We were hearing reports yesterday, of course, concerns about al Qaeda mounting more attacks on U.S. interests abroad. We always hear about chatter. Are they saying that there's just a lot more talking that they're picking up right now?
KOPPEL: There is, Kelly. And the State Department, as it does, and as it must do, reissued a worldwide caution to Americans thinking about traveling overseas, or those who are living overseas, to update them, and just say, look, we're hearing there could be more attacks planned. We know that it could involve either maritime or aeronautical terrorists, suicide attacks. Be on alert. But when it comes right down to it, there is nothing necessarily specific.
All of the chatter -- and this is the concern. We were talking about this earlier today on CNN. The concern is that al Qaeda has dispersed so much around the world. It's become such a franchise, that it's not necessarily the visible leaders out there, it's these smaller groups which are so hard to get a handle on and so hard to track down.
COHEN: Well, from world affairs, we're going to move on to some more personal ailments. The experts are warning about a worst-than- usual flu season that may be in our future. I'm on that story just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAYS: More breaking news. This time from Kabul, Afghanistan.
Reports that there was an explosion near the Intercontinental Hotel. Apparently, a mortar shell hit the perimeter wall some 300 feet from the hotel itself. No injuries reported at this time. The hotel is next door to the headquarters of the ruling council there.
The Loya Jirga was not in session at that time. That is all we know. As we have more details, of course we will be reporting on those as well.
Now, we'll continue with ON THE STORY.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. JULIE GERBERDING, DIRECTOR, CDC: People need to get their flu shot. This is the time for Americans to really step up to the plate and get vaccinated against influenza.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COHEN: Dr. Julie Gerberding, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, saying don't wait. Welcome back. We're ON THE STORY.
Now, what you just heard Dr. Gerberding say indicates, I think, an important shift in the CDC's thinking. They used to just tell people who were older to get their flu shots, or people with chronic diseases. Well now, more and more, you're hearing them saying American shows get their flu shot.
In other words, they don't use the word "everyone," but that everyone should get a flu shot. And everyone certainly can get a flu shot. And it can help cut down on the amount of flu in the country.
That's the difference that I have seen this year. Also, a difference that this year they came out and said, look, the flu hit early. It hit in October and November in certain states, especially bad in Texas and Colorado. And they went so far as to say that this year could be an especially bad season, especially because one of the strains that's out there that's particularly virulent, is not included in the vaccine.
WALLACE: Elizabeth, why do you think people are still so afraid of getting this vaccine, and also confused? You often hear people say, "Well, I heard stories of people getting the vaccine and they still get the flu anyway. So why should I bother?"
COHEN: Right. People get confused. Because if you get the flu shot, you can still get any one of the number of viruses that out there in the winter. It doesn't prevent everything, it just prevents those strain of the flu shot that happen to be in there, and perhaps some other strains of the flu as well. But you can still get another virus.
But I'll tell you, Kelly, this problem has really haunted public health officials. Thirty-six thousand people a year die from the flu. And, by and large, it's a very preventable disease. Why don't people get the shot?
Well, you know what? By and large, many, many people don't get the shot. Public health officials have tried hard, and their PR efforts have worked to some degree. But really, they've had a hard time.
HAYS: You sure couldn't have protected yourself from the hepatitis outbreak this week, due to eating green onions, one of my favorite salad vegetables.
COHEN: That's right. Who would have thought green onions could be such a problem? This is now the third outbreak that has been linked to green onions. There was one in Tennessee, one in Georgia, and now this one in Pennsylvania.
People ate at that Chi-Chi's restaurant you see there in Pennsylvania. There have been 500 confirmed cases, and three people have died. Now, as I've said in other reports, green onions don't kill people. People kill people. Somehow those green onions got contaminated. The folks at Chi-Chi's say that health officials have told them they weren't contaminated at Chi-Chi's. They arrived contaminated, that there's something about the growing process, perhaps in the irrigation. Maybe it was irrigated with dirty water.
Maybe a farm worker was infected with Hepatitis A, went to the bathroom, didn't wash his or her hands, came back and handled the onions. There are different ways that it could have happened, but usually it involves people.
KOPPEL: Well, on that appetizing note, as we approach the lunch hour, we are going to have the president's weekly radio address just ahead. We hope you stay with us, when ON THE STORY returns, right after this quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAYS: Many thanks to my colleagues, as always. And thank you, as always, for watching ON THE STORY. Of course, we'll be back next week.
Still ahead, "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS," focusing this week on the legacy and the future of the Kennedy family. At 12:00 noon Eastern, 9:00 a.m. Pacific, "CNN LIVE SATURDAY." And at 1:00 p.m. Eastern, 10:00 a.m. Pacific, CNN's "IN THE MONEY." Coming up at the top of the hour, a check of the top stories.
But first, the president's weekly radio address.
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really getting better in Iraq?>
Aired November 22, 2003 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KELLY WALLACE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to CNN's ON THE STORY, where our journalists have the inside word on the stories we covered this week. I'm Kelly Wallace, in Dallas, on the story of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, here, 40 years ago today, and how that day burns in the national memory.
JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: I'm Jane Arraf in Baghdad, on the story of suicide bombs, rocket attacks, surface-to-air missiles, and whether it's really getting better.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: I'm Barbara Starr on the videophone from Doha, Qatar, where U.S. military commanders are beefing up their headquarters to deal with the fighting in Iraq.
KATHLEEN HAYS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Kathleen Hays, in New York, on the story of superstar Michael Jackson, the arrest, and the fallout for the entertainment business.
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: I'm Andrea Koppel in Atlanta, on the story of President Bush in Britain, facing up to opposition on Iraq policy.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Elizabeth Cohen, also in Atlanta, on the story of warnings that this year's bout of flu could be especially troubling.
Also coming up, remember the August blackout? Well, who's to blame?
And the big hepatitis outbreak in Pennsylvania. What are the lessons there?
And we'll listen to the president's radio address at the end of the hour.
E-mail us at onthestory@cnn.com. Now straight ahead to Jane Arraf in Iraq and fighting back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIG. GEN. MARTIN DEMPSEY, COMMANDER, 1ST ARMORED BRIGADE: I'd say that from the period prior to Operation Iron Hammer to now, the attacks are down about 70 percent. And we're working as hard as we possibly can to keep it that way and drive it to zero.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ARRAF: That was Brigadier General Martin Dempsey, talking on Thursday about the situation in Baghdad, saying that they are making progress. But, you know, some days it really doesn't seem that way. Just this morning, two suicide bombs at police stations. And this is one of the saddest things you see.
These police stations are much less well protected than the American military ones. In these attacks, at least 19 people dead, many of them police officers, 25 wounded. And it has just gone on. Now, no injuries in this one, but you couldn't really send a worse public relations message.
A surface-to-air missile actually hit a civilian plane today, a DHL carrier. The engine caught on fire. It landed safely. No injuries. But, again, a horrendous message to send.
And just a couple of days ago in this room -- there's normally glass behind me here, but this was a room that was hit by two rockets in that incredible rocket attack from carts propelled by donkeys on this hotel, another one across the street, and at the oil ministry. All in all, the military keeps saying it's getting better, but for a lot of Iraqis, it just doesn't feel that way.
HAYS: Jane, certainly from our perspective here in the United States watching this, it makes us wonder about security. It makes us wonder about the U.S. administration, the military commanders there, preparing to try to hand over more of the policing and the security of the nation to Iraqi forces. What do these latest events do to that?
ARRAF: It's got to have an impact, Kathleen. I mean, that is the thing. They keep saying that it's going to get safer when they can withdraw.
And in fact, there is the plan that we know of, that they're hoping -- the U.S. military is hoping they can withdraw from the center of Baghdad, for instance, out to the outskirts. Because they feel they're attracting these attacks. But to do that, they really have to hand over power to the Iraqi police.
And these are the same policemen who tell us over and over, they don't have uniforms, they don't have guns, they don't have cars. In fact, they're afraid to wear their uniforms in the street, they say, because they could be shot. There's just a long way to go on this.
STARR: You know, Jane, that seems to be the really critical issue that's going to be on the front burners (UNINTELLIGIBLE). The administration keeps saying Iraqi security forces are taking over more of the security inside Iraq, that they are now the second largest member of the coalition. But if these suicide bombers, these attacks now really do turn against the Iraqi security forces, will these Iraqis really stay with the program? Will they continue to want to be part of the security apparatus, or will this (UNINTELLIGIBLE) establish a really well-trained Iraqi security force?
ARRAF: You know, one of the only reasons they're staying with this program or any program where they are really in danger -- and we see that all the way from police to civil defense forces, to even Iraqi translators with the military -- is that there are no jobs. And that's a really negative reason, and not one that's really solid.
But a lot of these police officers are risking their lives literally every day for $150 a month. But still, a lot more than they would be making if they weren't working. But it's not that much when it comes to people who are supporting perhaps 10 or 20 people in a family.
So it is -- it seems to be impacting a little bit. But as long as the economy is so bad, as long as the economy is getting back up into shape to support a more secure environment, people are still going to line up for those jobs it seems.
WALLACE: Jane, are your sources indicating that they believe these attacks are all coordinated and a stepped-up strategy to target the Iraqi security officers, as opposed to the U.S. troops inside the country?
ARRAF: That's a really interesting and very diffuse thing. And I'd love to hear what you're hearing about this in Washington. But here, they seem to be breaking it up into two different categories.
One is, these things like improvised explosive devices, as they call them, those are essentially homemade bombs. Now, those are believed to be laid primarily by Iraqis and, in some cases, just common criminals who are doing it for money. But then you go into the region of suicide bombers, and Iraq has never really been the kind of place where people are passionate about religion or ideology to blow themselves up. It just does not have that history. They are still blaming foreign fighters for that.
And then in between, we have all of these other things. The rocket attacks, which are obviously well planned, well executed. So far, they haven't seemed to be able to make a lot of inroads. And they say these are quite possibly just a few people creating a lot of problems. But until they get that better intelligence through the police, through Iraqi civil defense, it's just not going to happen it seems.
HAYS: And Jane, when you mention the economy and jobs, I think about oil, because certainly there has been progress made in starting to restore the oilfields. But when you think about really getting this Iraqi economy back on its feet, when you think about paying for reconstruction, the U.S. hoping that the oil revenues might be able to assist with that, you kind of wonder if the security is still dicey. How much then in jeopardy is the future of the oil industry there?
ARRAF: Absolutely, you're so right. It is key. It's the key to all of this in a sense.
And just last week, this entire city, the capital, was plunged into darkness when an electrical line was tripped. That affected the refineries. It's affected gasoline supplies. It's affected the oil industry in general. It's just very, very vulnerable still to sabotage, to the fact that these lines and the industry itself are in such bad repair. And one of the most frustrating things for Iraqis, I've got to say, is to have to stand in line for hours on end, which they do, in these stalled cars that have run out of gas. This, in a country that is awash with oil.
There are very few things that make Iraqis more angry than that. And it's making them very, very angry, the fact that you still see incredibly long lineups for gasoline here.
STARR: Well, U.S. military managed (UNINTELLIGIBLE). I'm back on that story in just a moment
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. JOHN ABIZAID, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: In all, I would say that the force of people actively armed and operating against us does not exceed 5,000.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: General John Abizaid (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
HAYS: All right. I'm afraid we're having a little bit of difficulty with Barbara Starr's audio, as you can tell. So we are going to get back to Jane Arraf in Iraq.
You know, General John Abizaid, the commander of U.S. Central Command, is calling the shots in Iraq now. Been giving his opinion on the deadly attacks that can be blamed on a small group, some 5,000 fighters. You know we are ON THE STORY here, dealing with our -- trying to take care of our many far-flung reporters.
Jane, what is the reaction? Again, this question of whether the forces have to be beefed up -- again, forces being beefed up in Qatar for the first time since the war began. It seems that within the Bush administration, we see them going one way, let's reduce force, and then very quickly saying, I guess we can't. What is the reaction there?
ARRAF: It is really tricky. And probably, you get the same sense here of not quite knowing the best way to approach this. Now, in terms of Baghdad versus the rest of the country, it really does seem to be a striking difference, and something that we've got to keep exploring. Because in Baghdad, they say the operations they're mounting against whoever's behind these attacks have been paying off the past few weeks, that attacks are decreasing.
But when you get outside of Baghdad, it's a completely different story. The attacks are increasing. And on top of that, you do have what seem to be increasing number of attacks, like today's, suicide bombs against Iraqi police, which do almost as much damage.
Now, if the U.S. plan is to withdraw some of its force, although they do not like that word, withdraw, keep them to the sidelines perhaps, central Baghdad, to make them less visible and less of a target, and therefore to let Iraqis take more control of their security, that obviously would not require so many troops. But it really remains to be seen whether that is a viable plan at this point.
WALLACE: Jane (UNINTELLIGIBLE) security situation? We of course saw attacks targeting hotels in Baghdad, where journalist, including yourself, are staying. I mean, how much of a concern is there on the part of journalists? And are you seeing some people deciding to pull out because they're so concerned about their own safety inside the country?
ARRAF: You know, it hasn't been a great week. There were the rocket attacks on these hotels. And again, behind me, this used to be a nice sort of glass window with aluminum. There were two rocket strikes that came through this room.
Now, my room is directly across. And we have other people directly next to us. We were all incredibly lucky, as were most people in this hotel.
There was one injury in a hotel with 500 people. But there were the rocket attacks. And then today, the surface-to-air missile hitting.
Now, it was a DHL cargo plane, but the effect has been that the only commercial carrier here really, that journalists use, has announced that it's suspending its flights for a few days to think about it. So it does remain dangerous, but it's always been dangerous. And that is an assessment that a lot of people -- I know a lot of you all make when you're in this region as well, and in other regions, that it's worth the risks.
There are a few people pulling out. But most of the journalists here, I think, are really committed to following this through and seeing exactly what's going to happen here. It's amazing, it's fascinating. You can't not be here.
KOPPEL: Actually Jane, my question comes off of Kelly's, and that is, the Palestine Hotel for the first time was struck on Friday, yesterday. What -- and that's where you're staying and many of your journalist colleagues. How does that play upon you psychologically, to be in a building that you're living in, you're working in, and it's now been a terrorist target?
ARRAF: You have to assume here that pretty well anywhere is a terrorist target. And the Palestine, you'll remember, during the war, there's still a cannon hole here from when a cannon shot was fired by a U.S. tank. They said, of course, that they were aiming at snipers, but two journalists were killed here.
Now, the fact remains that, proportionately, more journalists have been killed than U.S. soldiers have been killed. So it is a dangerous place for a number of reasons. There are potential attacks from U.S. forces, from Iraqi forces, just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Now, it's -- it comes down to, I suppose, how strongly you feel one needs the media here. And I think we all feel really strongly that you just cannot abandon this country. You can't abandon this story. We've been here, as you all know, and a lot of you have been here, for a long, long time. And now is not the time to leave, certainly when there's so much at stake here.
HAYS: All right. Jane Arraf, thank you. Barbara Starr, I'm sorry, we could not get to that the way we had hoped to. But we thank both of them.
CNN just learning some breaking news. Georgian President Eduard Shevardnadze declaring a state of emergency after opposition forces overran parliament. A breaking story, of course. We'll be following this throughout the day on CNN, and even ON THE STORY, as this unfolds.
For now, we are going to continue in just a moment ON THE STORY. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An arrest warrant for Mr. Jackson has been issued on multiple counts of child molestation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK GERAGOS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: He is greatly outraged by the bringing of these charges. He considers this to be a big lie.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYS: The sheriff and Michael Jackson's lawyer. The opening shots in what promises to be a very long, very expensive, very public legal and public relations battle. Welcome back. We're ON THE STORY.
Michael Jackson, the king of pop 1982 -- remember "Thriller" sold 26 million copies worldwide? According to the Guinness Book of World Records, this album sold more copies than any other in history.
Some say he has had, in many ways, a somewhat tragic career. That was really the height of it. And, of course, these latest allegations, a pending trial, a very tough point in a career that was already, some would say, in a downslide.
KOPPEL: Kathleen, I'm kind of curious what you and our colleague, Kelly, there, think about this. I'm personally very torn about the amount of coverage that you give to a story like this. Obviously, he is a mega super-duper star, and this is a very serious story. But, you know, you cover the economy, usually. Do you see that this is a story that deserves the kind of wall-to-wall coverage that all networks are giving it?
HAYS: Well, I think from -- that's a very good question, because does this affect the economy? No. Does it have a money angle? Of course it does.
Certainly, the money comes in from the point of view that Jackson supporters say, once again, this is about extorting money from a man who was vulnerable in the public eye and who has the money to get. The other money aspect of it, of course, is that he's hugely successful. He made more than half a billion dollars in his career, although now he faces a crash crunch. He also has a very lavish lifestyle.
I think when you sit back and look at the coverage, we also look at somebody who grew up in the public eye. The Jackson Five burst out -- was he about 5 years old when he started in national television, a huge recording artist? I think he grows up, a man, again, who was never -- the child molestation charges of 1993 were never proven one way or the other, something that was settled.
And I just think it resonates for many people, that now that many Michael Jackson fans are older, they're parents now, too. And I think they feel torn. I just think it grabs people on many levels. And probably the coverage is and will be excessive, but I think there's a reason why it hooks people really on a gut level.
COHEN: Kathleen, I know many parents have this question, which is, why would you let your child have a sleepover at Neverland?
HAYS: That's -- I think that was my reaction, too. And as soon as I had that reaction, Elizabeth, I thought, I'm doing what everybody else is doing, and again, what his supporters say we shouldn't do.
We should not lynch him in the media. In this country, everyone's innocent until proven guilty. But I think his eccentric behavior -- I think people always wondered somewhat why Michael Jackson has so many children around him. He's contributed lots of money to children's causes. The Neverland Ranch frequently brings in kids just for the thrill of seeing Michael Jackson, underprivileged kids.
The young man around whom the allegations center had a cancer diagnosis two years ago. It was his last wish to meet Michael Jackson. I, as a parent, agree with you, any cloud of question, I would not let my child be unsupervised in a home privately with someone like this. At the same time, again there are allegations.
So much is out there that is from this source and that source, we really don't know what to think. But one of the stories I read said that actually family members were present when this alleged molestation took place. So it's getting murkier and murkier. But one thing is for sure, this time, Michael Jackson, unless the judge decides not to take this to trial, and that's the first question that's asked, may very well stand trial and have a chance to exonerate himself or have this kind of charge proven once and forever.
WALLACE: You know, it's interesting. This issue will probably be debated in journalism classes for years to come. How much is the public really fascinated with this subject, or how much is the news media just always interested in such a fascinating subject? But I don't know that we have the answer to that.
My question to you, though, is, the entertainment industry, what's the sense that these allegations alone, what impact could they have on Michael Jackson's already sagging career?
HAYS: Well you know this same week is the week that his greatest hits album, "Number Ones," was being released. CBS was supposed to air a Michael Jackson special. They said it wouldn't really be appropriate now. So that's been put on the shelf.
His career was already eclipsed by a big change in music. You know, Michael Jackson was a star in the disco era, "Thriller," "Beat It," songs you could dance to. What really eclipsed him was hip-hop, a totally different direction in the music world that comes out of the streets, that features like, aggressive, masculine images.
Michael Jackson, the ultimate symbol of androgyny, in terms of what it means for the business and for his career. One Hollywood reporter I talked to said if Michael's found guilty, maybe this does just put the final touch on the downturn in his career, but what if he is exonerated? He said, can you imagine the comeback tour, you know, the TV specials, the new album?
So who knows. I mean, at this point, I don't want to make light of it, but it remains to be seen what happens. But it would also seem that having these child molestation charges resurrected again is not good.
Another reporter I spoke to said anecdotally that he was picking up his 11-year-old son from school, and said kids had already downloaded some Michael Jackson pictures from the Internet, and they were commenting on how weird this guy was. Certainly, if he had any hope of building a younger audience, that could be totally out of the window with this.
But Michael Jackson fans seem to be people who were going out and having a good time, again, in the '80s. That's an older generation, and many of those people are still fans and apparently are not deserting him yet.
WALLACE: What's the sense from anyone on the panel if Michael Jackson does a full PR offensive, which he's likely to do, will that help him in the public eye in fighting these allegations?
COHEN: It seems to me that no matter what he says -- and we heard his lawyer say earlier, it's all a lie, it's a big lie. I mean, that's what people expect him to say. I don't know what he could say at this point, short of showing some real evidence that would really convince people that all these years these allegations were wrong. WALLACE: Well, Elizabeth, from questions about Michael Jackson to a much, much different story, the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, 40 years ago today. A story, a development that shook the world. I'm back ON THE STORY live from Dealey Plaza in Dallas after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Suddenly, a sound, gunshot. Hard to tell above the clamor of the crowd. The president bent forward into his wife's lap, as his arms slipped off the side of the car.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: A riveting account from Margaret Taylor (ph), a woman reading from a letter left by an eyewitness to history. Live pictures now from Dealey Plaza, the site that shook the world 40 years ago, the place where John F. Kennedy, 35th president of the United States, was assassinated.
That letter written by June Deshong (ph). She was standing here at Dealey Plaza. She watched what happened, and she went home and she wrote it all down in a journal. But she never shared it with her family or her friends or her colleagues. It wasn't found until five years ago, just after she died, right before her 90th birthday.
We see a steady stream of visitors coming to this site today, some to remember the late president. But others still looking for answers. Not believing that one lone gunman, Lee Harvey Oswald, could be responsible for such a national tragedy.
HAYS: Kelly, is there anything in this woman's accounts, which are so fascinating, as her daughter said. It takes you there, again, to that moment. Anything in what she wrote that would either support the sole gunman theory or add to this idea that there may have been some kind of conspiracy that the Warren Commission didn't uncover?
WALLACE: Yes. And an important point, she was never interviewed by the Warren Commission because she didn't come forward. But if you look at her letter, she does say that there were three shots. She heard one shot, then a second shot, and then a third shot.
The number of shots has long been a controversy, because others believe there could have been more shots, and that other shots could have been fired from this fence here over the grassy knoll. The Warren Commission, though, found that there were three shots all fired by Lee Harvey Oswald. So her account would seem to bolster, at least in some ways, the Warren Commission report.
KOPPEL: Kelly, we know the range of potential conspiracy theories from -- it was the Cubans, it was the Mafia, it was even then Vice President Johnson. But what was it that the Warren Commission came up with that led them to believe that it could only have been Lee Harvey Oswald? WALLACE: A number of things, Andrea. Mainly, of course, that very famous -- probably the most famous home video ever shot, the Zapruder film by Abraham Zapruder. Looking at that film, looking at the, you know, eyewitness accounts, looking at the rifle, looking at Lee Harvey Oswald's background, looking at the kind of direction of the shots hitting President Kennedy. And, of course, one shot also hitting president -- Texas Governor John Connelly.
There was the single bullet theory. And this has been one of the big controversies. The Warren Commission finding that one of the bullets actually went through President Kennedy and then hit and entered Texas Governor John Connelly. lot of people disagree with that. But that finding is what bolstered, in some way, the Warren Commission report, that it believed there were three shots and that Oswald, solely behind this, and no big conspiracy that he acted alone.
COHEN: Kelly, millions of people visit Dealey Plaza where you are right now. Why do you think there's still such a draw and such a fascination, 40 years later?
WALLACE: It's everything from the life of the 35th president, President Kennedy, and his wife, of course, Jackie Kennedy. They were young, they were beautiful. A time of enormous promise and optimism in the country. And, of course, what happened here 40 years ago and the fact that the conspiracy theorists continue.
You also had the movie by Oliver Stone in 1991 which gave a credibility to the sense that there was a greater conspiracy and that it wasn't just Oswald and that there was a cover-up. And you do find, in terms of people, at least, who were not alive in 1963, the younger generation, they seem to come here just as fascinated. But many people coming here because they don't believe what they've been told so far. And so there's this continued sense of trying to discover, and will we ever never know, exactly what happened 40 years ago today.
HAYS: Kelly, by contrast, interesting the people that don't go there, and that's mostly members of the Kennedy family. A very painful memory for them, and one that they actually would prefer not to see so highlighted in some ways.
WALLACE: It's so interesting, Kathleen. As we were reading up, and looking at documentaries, and reading articles that Dallas is a huge city. This is not a small place. And the fact that, really no major member of the Kennedy family coming to Dallas since 1963.
I believe Eunice Kennedy Shriver, one of the only Kennedy family members who has ever visited a museum that was created 14 years ago. That museum very much dedicated to President Kennedy's life, and walking a very delicate line, not really taking a position on what happened. Presenting information on his life, information about what happened and the various theories there.
But there's no official ceremony going on here. There never really is, every anniversary year. And that is in keeping with the Kennedy family's desire to remember the president on his birthday, to remember his life, and not the tragic way he died. KOPPEL: Kelly, I don't think I'm giving away any secrets here to say that you weren't born 40 years ago, when President Kennedy was assassinated. But what it is like for you to be sitting there right in the middle of where all this happened?
WALLACE: Well, no major development there, right. Not alive that day. But, of course, it's something we always ask. We ask our parents. I asked my mother, my father where they were on that day, November 22, 1963.
They know exactly what they were doing, just as most of us who were not alive that day remember what we were doing on September 11. A couple of observations. Number one, it is so small. It appears a much smaller area in person than it seems to be in video clips or in photographs.
And also, the sense of how much this area is almost frozen in time. That building behind me, that is the former Texas Schoolbook Depository building, where the fatal shots are believed to have been fired from. It is intact.
You have this whole area, the grassy knoll. It's almost exactly as it was in 1963. And that is quite moving and, of course, so sad.
So sad to think of what happened here. Someone who has covered presidents as well, to think of what an impact this was on the whole administration, on Secret Service, and on the entire country and the world. It's very moving and a solemn, very solemn place.
KOPPEL: And it was, we learned from the CNN documentary that's airing again later today, the beginning of really what we do, the live coverage of news that day, November 22, 40 years ago. Kelly Wallace, thank you so much for joining us.
We've got the shock of events 40 years ago, to the present challenge of charting the course for the U.S. in a world rocked by new terrorism strikes and new attacks in Iraq. I'm back on that story in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: Those of our critics who say you're not moving fast enough, you ought to turn over sovereignty tomorrow, my answer is to who, to what, to what institution with what legitimacy?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KOPPEL: Secretary of State Colin Powell voicing frustration with some of the critics of U.S. policy in Iraq. Welcome back. We're ON THE STORY.
Well, of course, now -- and what we're talking about is in recent weeks -- the Bush administration has made a pretty significant shift in course regarding handing over sovereignty to the Iraqi people, rather than saying, it's going to happen after we write a constitution, after we have new elections. We don't know when that will be.
They're saying no, this is something that they could see doing as soon as June, and handing it over not to a freely elected body of Iraqis, but rather to this provisional government, which most likely will be a lot of familiar figures that we've been seeing from the Iraqi Governing Council who, by the way, were primarily handpicked by the U.S.
COHEN: Andrea, during this trip that Bush took to England this week, there seemed a strange dichotomy. Bush and Blair have such a close relationship. But on the other hand, in the rest of England, there seems to be a strong dislike for President Bush. How did they handle that?
KOPPEL: Well, with a lot of security. Obviously, security for potential -- to thwart potential terrorist attacks. But also, they did -- the British government did go out of its way, spending $9 million to try to keep a lot of these demonstrators away from President Bush.
This was supposed to be a victory lap for these two leaders. They planned the trip last spring after the war in Iraq. They thought it had ended on a successful note.
And what they saw, in fact, was -- at least the British people looking at it, saying, well, what have we gotten out of this? We have tens of thousands of our soldiers over there. They are dying, alongside American forces and some other coalition troops. But, hey, we wanted a couple things from you.
We wanted to find out about the release of nine British citizens who have been held by the United States in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, since the war in Afghanistan, which began two years ago. And they also wanted some kind of break from U.S. tariffs on steel imports, neither of which they got. So the British people are really upset.
HAYS: Of course, part of the problem there, of course, is the second attack in Turkey in a week took place last week in Istanbul. And that seems to have taken up some time and attention of these two leaders as well. So I wonder, is that the kind of thing, Andrea, that maybe drives them closer together, maybe even increases some support in the U.K. for the war on terror, the war in Iraq, or is it something that drives a bigger wedge?
KOPPEL: Difficult to say, at this point, Kathleen. I think we have to wait to see when polls are done among the British citizens to see how they react. I don't think it is a surprise to anyone living in the world today that there are terrorists out there who are going after the United States and its allies or governments that support the United States. Those two attacks, one against the British Consulate, the other against one of the major British banks in Istanbul, happened at a very unfortunate time. Both leaders, however -- you heard Prime Minister Blair, you heard President Bush reiterating what has been the theme, the mantra of the last two-plus years. And that is, the war against terrorism is something very serious. We need to band together to fight it. But, clearly, this is not a war the Bush administration or the Blair administration can say they are necessarily going to wrap up anytime soon. This is an ongoing battle.
WALLACE: Andrea, what are your sources telling you? We were hearing reports yesterday, of course, concerns about al Qaeda mounting more attacks on U.S. interests abroad. We always hear about chatter. Are they saying that there's just a lot more talking that they're picking up right now?
KOPPEL: There is, Kelly. And the State Department, as it does, and as it must do, reissued a worldwide caution to Americans thinking about traveling overseas, or those who are living overseas, to update them, and just say, look, we're hearing there could be more attacks planned. We know that it could involve either maritime or aeronautical terrorists, suicide attacks. Be on alert. But when it comes right down to it, there is nothing necessarily specific.
All of the chatter -- and this is the concern. We were talking about this earlier today on CNN. The concern is that al Qaeda has dispersed so much around the world. It's become such a franchise, that it's not necessarily the visible leaders out there, it's these smaller groups which are so hard to get a handle on and so hard to track down.
COHEN: Well, from world affairs, we're going to move on to some more personal ailments. The experts are warning about a worst-than- usual flu season that may be in our future. I'm on that story just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAYS: More breaking news. This time from Kabul, Afghanistan.
Reports that there was an explosion near the Intercontinental Hotel. Apparently, a mortar shell hit the perimeter wall some 300 feet from the hotel itself. No injuries reported at this time. The hotel is next door to the headquarters of the ruling council there.
The Loya Jirga was not in session at that time. That is all we know. As we have more details, of course we will be reporting on those as well.
Now, we'll continue with ON THE STORY.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. JULIE GERBERDING, DIRECTOR, CDC: People need to get their flu shot. This is the time for Americans to really step up to the plate and get vaccinated against influenza.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COHEN: Dr. Julie Gerberding, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, saying don't wait. Welcome back. We're ON THE STORY.
Now, what you just heard Dr. Gerberding say indicates, I think, an important shift in the CDC's thinking. They used to just tell people who were older to get their flu shots, or people with chronic diseases. Well now, more and more, you're hearing them saying American shows get their flu shot.
In other words, they don't use the word "everyone," but that everyone should get a flu shot. And everyone certainly can get a flu shot. And it can help cut down on the amount of flu in the country.
That's the difference that I have seen this year. Also, a difference that this year they came out and said, look, the flu hit early. It hit in October and November in certain states, especially bad in Texas and Colorado. And they went so far as to say that this year could be an especially bad season, especially because one of the strains that's out there that's particularly virulent, is not included in the vaccine.
WALLACE: Elizabeth, why do you think people are still so afraid of getting this vaccine, and also confused? You often hear people say, "Well, I heard stories of people getting the vaccine and they still get the flu anyway. So why should I bother?"
COHEN: Right. People get confused. Because if you get the flu shot, you can still get any one of the number of viruses that out there in the winter. It doesn't prevent everything, it just prevents those strain of the flu shot that happen to be in there, and perhaps some other strains of the flu as well. But you can still get another virus.
But I'll tell you, Kelly, this problem has really haunted public health officials. Thirty-six thousand people a year die from the flu. And, by and large, it's a very preventable disease. Why don't people get the shot?
Well, you know what? By and large, many, many people don't get the shot. Public health officials have tried hard, and their PR efforts have worked to some degree. But really, they've had a hard time.
HAYS: You sure couldn't have protected yourself from the hepatitis outbreak this week, due to eating green onions, one of my favorite salad vegetables.
COHEN: That's right. Who would have thought green onions could be such a problem? This is now the third outbreak that has been linked to green onions. There was one in Tennessee, one in Georgia, and now this one in Pennsylvania.
People ate at that Chi-Chi's restaurant you see there in Pennsylvania. There have been 500 confirmed cases, and three people have died. Now, as I've said in other reports, green onions don't kill people. People kill people. Somehow those green onions got contaminated. The folks at Chi-Chi's say that health officials have told them they weren't contaminated at Chi-Chi's. They arrived contaminated, that there's something about the growing process, perhaps in the irrigation. Maybe it was irrigated with dirty water.
Maybe a farm worker was infected with Hepatitis A, went to the bathroom, didn't wash his or her hands, came back and handled the onions. There are different ways that it could have happened, but usually it involves people.
KOPPEL: Well, on that appetizing note, as we approach the lunch hour, we are going to have the president's weekly radio address just ahead. We hope you stay with us, when ON THE STORY returns, right after this quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAYS: Many thanks to my colleagues, as always. And thank you, as always, for watching ON THE STORY. Of course, we'll be back next week.
Still ahead, "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS," focusing this week on the legacy and the future of the Kennedy family. At 12:00 noon Eastern, 9:00 a.m. Pacific, "CNN LIVE SATURDAY." And at 1:00 p.m. Eastern, 10:00 a.m. Pacific, CNN's "IN THE MONEY." Coming up at the top of the hour, a check of the top stories.
But first, the president's weekly radio address.
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really getting better in Iraq?>
