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World Marks One-Year Anniversary of U.S.-Led Invasion of Iraq; Pakistan Doubts al-Zawahiri Among Those Surrounded

Aired March 20, 2004 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


RENAY SAN MIGUEL, CNN ANCHOR: Top stories at this hour:
Pakistani forces are pounding the positions of al Qaeda fighters for a fifth day in northwest Pakistan. There is now some question whether al Qaeda No. 2, Ayman al-Zawahiri, is with the fighters. The photo provided by the Pakistani military shows some of the compounds under attack. The Pakistanis say they've cleared eight of these compounds and captures 100 suspects.

Two anti-war protesters climbed London's Big Ben on a day of global demonstrations marking the anniversary of the U.S. invasion of Iraq. A big turnout is expect in Spain, where last week's bombings were linked by many to Spain's assistance in the war.

President Bush will appear at the first official rally of his re- election campaign today. Organizers expect up to 15,000 people at an Orlando convention center. The president has actually been campaigning for months, but at receptions for GOP donors and taxpayer- funded events.

Supporters of Taiwanese President Chen Shui-bian are celebrating his re-election but opponent Lien Chan says, Not so fast. Lien is calling for a recount of today's close results. A spokesman for the president says, in principle he has no objection to that.

Those are the top stories at this hour. ON THE STORY begins right now.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to CNN's ON THE STORY, where our journalists have the inside word on the stories we covered this week.

I'm Barbara Starr, ON THE STORY of the latest in Iraq, and those claims from Pakistan that a senior al Qaeda leader is surrounded.

RYM BRAHIMI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Rym Brahimi in London, ON THE STORY of a year since Iraq war. A new suspicion in Europe and the Muslim world over the U.S. motives and policy.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I'm - I'm Dana Bash, ON THE STORY of how the war and national security are at the heart of the presidential campaign.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Daryn Kagan in Atlanta. I am ON THE STORY. We have one distraction from war and politics: basketball. Whether you have filled out your brackets or not, we're going to talk about some fresh concerns about gambling and college hoops.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNNfn CORRESPONDENT: And I'm Christine Romans, ON THE STORY of how the markets still can't dig themselves out of the latest worries over jobs and terrorism.

We'll also be talking about the impact of the government's defeat in Spain after the terrorism strike there.

We'll have the latest on Martha Stewart's efforts to stay out of prison.

And we'll ask Barbara why she has her eyes closed in this military aircraft.

E-mail us at onthestory@cnn.com.

Now, straight ahead to Barbara and one year later.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: That spirit carried the American soldier across Europe to help liberate a continent. It's the same spirit that carried you across Iraq to set a nation free.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: President Bush, Thursday, at Fort Campbell, Kentucky, praising the troops on the one-year anniversary of the start of the Iraq war, or, as President Bush told the troops, in a year Saddam went from a palace, to a bunker, to a spider hole to jail.

But, of course, here in Washington, by the end of the week, the one-year anniversary largely overshadowed by what's going on in Pakistan, what continues to go on in Pakistan, as we sit here right now. This assault by Pakistani troops in the tribal areas, against a compound where they said earlier in the week they believed Ayman al- Zawahiri, the No. 2 to Osama bin Laden, was holed up, and by all accounts, from people on the ground, the fighting getting more and more furious as the hours go on.

BRAHIMI: Barbara, as the world, in effect, watches these developments with great interest, there are of course several questions and the perspective, as you can imagine, from Europe is very different. And one of the questions that we hear a lot is, first of all, what will this military action or this -- these clashes -- what's going to happen now in Pakistan? Is this going to affect the domestic scene more, or is there any chance that it will in fact, really deal a blow to world terrorism in the way that the U.S. is hoping maybe it will?

STARR: Well, you know, Rym, people who watch this area of the world say this really is putting Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf on the hot seat. He has a very delicate situation in his country with this area, where Pakistani military forces have not operated before. So all of this being watched very closely. But here in Washington, the Bush administration took great pains to immediately say, even if they were to capture Zawahiri it wouldn't mean a lot to the war on terrorism. It wouldn't really be that pivotal. And, of course, that's because the administration now saying that they really believe al Qaeda has morphed from a hierarchical situation run by bin Laden and Zawahiri and their close associates to something much more worldwide, much - much more spread out, much more difficult to understand.

KAGAN: Barbara, I'm hoping you can give us the inside view from inside the Pentagon. Much is made within Pakistan that this is the Pakistani military that is running this show. It's not the U.S. military. They're operating in Afghanistan.

And yet, you get the feeling that somehow, behind the scenes, there's some kind of advisory role or some kind of involvement from the U.S. military. What can you tell us about that?

STARR: You know, Daryn, you're absolutely right.

Of course, there's official Washington -- no one is going to say that the U.S. military is doing anything more than watching television, you know, to get the word about all of this. That's the official word.

But behind the scenes, it's very clear there is a military strategy. There's an intelligence strategy. The U.S. is doing a lot more than just watching television hour by hour. For the last several days, if not weeks, intelligence assets have been pouring into that region. They're keeping an eye on both sides of the border, Afghanistan, Pakistan. And what a lot of people may not immediately realize -- the U.S. can put its eyes and ears up in airplanes, stay on the Afghan side of the border, and keep a very close watch across the mountains, across the border. And if they were to stray a little bit across into Pakistan, in some high-flying spy plane, who would know?

Very clear that there are communications, intelligence and support links between the United States and Pakistan as this goes on.

BASH: But another part of the reason why there's caution is because the Bush administration has sort of invested in the Pakistani intelligence before and not exactly gotten what they thought they were going to get.

STARR: Well, you know, that's very interesting, because, today, out of Islamabad, suddenly the Pakistani government, the Pakistani military, changing tone a little bit, not so definitive that Zawahiri is in that compound. Maybe it's a criminal, they say. They're just being very cautious. And what's hard to tell is, that - for public consumption -- they have people who come out of that compound who say Zawahiri's there. Now, today, the Pakistanis being a little more vague. What exactly is going on?

And, of course, what no one is talking about is where is Osama bin Laden? Did he already get away? Is he somewhere, hotfooting it across the border back into Afghanistan? No one knows. ROMANS: Even if Zawahiri is there, success isn't guaranteed. We've had top al Qaeda people cornered before, haven't we?

STARR: Well, absolutely right. Of course, you know, in March 2002, they thought they had bin Laden cornered in the assault at Tora Bora in Afghanistan and he slipped that net.

So, you know, officially, no one's really talking. But the Pentagon, the CIA, still being a little cautious, but still lending a lot of support behind the scenes. Every one -- the worst kept secret in the world was the spring offensive, was the actual strategy that this was the time frame in which both the U.S. and the Pakistanis would begin to make their move, try and narrow the box, keep these people from moving around, and then move in and get them. That had always been the strategy. That's what's unfolding. The only surprise was that the Pakistanis began to talk about it so publicly this week. That's really the surprise in the works there.

BRAHIMI: Barbara - Barbara, you were saying how precisely this operation has, in effect, put Pakistan or the Pakistani government, at any rate, in the hot seat, because it is now in this position where it really has to show its hand and it has to do more than just say it's supporting the war on terror; it really has to show it by actions.

But isn't that precisely the contradiction, that the U.S. and that the war on terror, in a way, has brought out in a lot of countries -- that if they were maybe truly more democratic or less forceful, would actually not yield that kind of result?

STARR: It's putting a lot of countries in the hot seat. As you know better than me, Rym, it's absolutely right.

You know, as al Qaeda -- I think you've followed this closely over the years -- as al Qaeda begins to be less of a well understood organization, as you see these cells across various countries beginning to be responsible, may perhaps -- with the Spanish train attacks -- what do various governments do? How do you develop a strategy to go after this multi-headed monster?

It's becoming increasingly difficult. Everything that we've been told is now actually coming to pass. Various cells in various countries, operating on their own, perhaps not even taking direction from the top. It's going to be -- it's going to put a lot of governments in the hot seat, one can only assume.

KAGAN: And Barbara, while the world focuses on Pakistan, let's not forget the other significance of this week, the one-year anniversary of the start of the war in Iraq. What do you think the U.S. military has learned over that last year?

STARR: Well, they've learned, Daryn, that those precision weapons work.

But, of course, the question is, they only hit the targets they're aimed at. What about the intelligence? You can hit what you aim at, but what's there? Of course, the pesky little question is where's the WMD?

KAGAN: The what?

STARR: Yes. That? That little matter?

They hit an awful lot of targets. The weapons worked. The strategy worked. Getting rid of the conventional Iraqi military worked.

But they didn't get Saddam Hussein for many months. They did a lot to try and go after him. They did eventually get him.

The question, of course, is what now? Twelve, 14 weeks away from transition to a new Iraqi government, but no Iraqi government to transition to. No established game plan at this moment about who will actually take control on June 30.

BRAHIMI: Well, that one-year anniversary of the war in Iraq is being watched all over the world, as, at the same time in many countries in the Europe and the Muslim world, the public opinion turns increasingly further against the United States.

I'm on that story in just a moment.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: Rym Brahimi is a CNN international correspondent and reported from Baghdad during the war in Iraq. She has a master's in English literature from the University of Paris and a journalism degree from Columbia University. She speaks French, Italian and Arabic.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: In the civilized world, there's only one path to safety. We will stay united and we will fight until this enemy is broken.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRAHIMI: We will stay united, says President Bush on Thursday, but the Spanish election results as well as new opinion polls, suggest that international cooperation is in trouble.

Welcome back. I'm ON THE STORY.

KAGAN: And, Rym, as we mentioned earlier, that this is -- this does mark the one-year anniversary of the start of the war in Iraq.

I understand you're just back from some anti-war demonstrations there in London. Tell us what you're seeing.

BRAHIMI: Well, initially, there weren't -- didn't seem to be that many people. But then it just grew and grew, you know, Daryn. And a number of people started increasing to a point where a lot of people said it looked like there will probably be as many people as this time last year, when people actually went out into the street to demonstrate to prevent the war, or against the war, that they were hoping maybe they would be able to prevent.

This time around, it's not so much obviously -- it's not just the war. This time around, what people are angry about, what people are protesting, is what they say are lies that the British government and the British prime minister, they say, has misled them, has been lying to them about weapons of mass destruction. They say the war in Iraq and the war on terrorism has actually not made the world a safer place, and a lot of people say that they would like the troops maybe not to come back immediately because a lot of people think they need to fix the mess that they say they've created in Iraq -- but they do want some change of government. A lot of people talking about punishing this government for having misled them.

BASH: Rym, I'm wondering how much you're hearing in term of fear on the street of London that what happened in Madrid last week could very well happen there, and sort of the reaction to what they saw in Madrid?

BRAHIMI: Definitely. I think the tragedy that we all saw took place in Madrid has affected everyone in Europe. And in Britain, everybody here is worried. A lot of people, almost matter-of-factly, just say, Well, no, we're expecting it to happen anytime soon here in Britain.

Now if you talk to intelligence sources, they will have a different take on this. A lot of people believe that somehow, the way the British government has been going about its own security, monitoring a lot of the groups that may have networks, even in Britain eventually - well, that they -- that might still keep them in check, that there might be some sort of way the British government has had of dealing with this. Some people even talk, you know, totally on background of some sort of agreements. But of course that's all very, very vague and not very clear.

What people are concerned about is that it will come to them. And that's just -- not just in Britain. In France and Italy, a lot of people are just wondering, Who's next now? And they all attribute that a lot to the anger that has been triggered, according to a lot of people, by the war in Iraq.

ROMANS: Let's talk a bit about the anti-war demonstrations you're seeing now. There's also, obviously, a great feeling of anti- terrorism all over Europe. But what about the feelings towards Americans? Are there anti-American feelings welling up, or are their anti-Bush feelings? Are those two different things?

BRAHIMI: It's really are more anti-Bush and anti-United States, more than anti-American. Obviously, you know, most people you talk to, be it actually in Europe or in the Muslim world, will say, No, we have nothing against the Americans. It's really about the U.S. government's policies. And what's interesting is it's not just in the Muslim world, that there is this resentment this increase of frustration, if you will, with regard to the United States. Now you have an increase in that kind of anger in Germany. There was an opinion poll conducted by the Pew research institute. It's a U.S.-based independent group, and they came up with very interesting results, saying that in Germany, in France, the anger towards the U.S. or frustration had increased. Even in Britain, which is the U.S.' best ally here in Europe, that mistrust has increased, and a lot of that mistrust is due to questions people are asking about the not, motives for going to war in Iraq, and also for the war in terror.

Now, some countries support the war on terror because they've been hit by terrorist attractions,. But the research was actually conducted before the Madrid bombings so they don't include -- they don't take that into count.

But still, a lot of people question the motives. A lot of people in Europe -- Britain, Germany and France -- believe that the war on terror, the war in Iraq, were conducted for materialistic gains, for domination, for oil reasons. A bit like a lot of people in the Muslim world, believe that.

STARR: You know, Rym, as we see these pictures of London, what's happening there today, unfolding on the street, certainly, the Blair government, the Labor Party, must be watching this very closely. And if they feel vulnerable, what's the state right now of the opposition government in Britain? Could the conservatives actually make a push and get enough support to unseat Tony Blair?

BRAHIMI: Well, there are a lot of questions, obviously, over that right now. And a lot of people think that right now, the conservatives will definitely capitalize on this mood and this impression that people have that they've been misled, they've lied to.

You saw the pictures of these two demonstrators - or, that actually climbed the Big Ben, the tower of Big Ben, and rolled down a banner saying, "time to tell the truth." This in addition to the tens of thousands of people that are expected to have walked out in the streets of London today, protesting, not only against the government's policies, but specifically, a lot of these banners that they were holding called Tony Blair a liar, pictures of Tony Blair with a long nose like Pinnochio.

And that is -- there's a lot of resentment, a lot of anger. And no doubt that the conservatives will try to capitalize on that.

That said, of course, a lot of people that are demonstrating are trying to offer new alternatives. And you will see, interestingly enough, obviously the odd communist party or leftist Socialist party. But you also have this new movement called Respect that's trying to present itself as a new Labor, a new left, an alternative to Blair's left, if you will.

KAGAN: Rym, I want to ask you about your old post in Baghdad. When we saw what happened with the bombing with the Hotel Lebanon, I think it's difficult for a lot of Americans to understand. How do Iraqis get frustrated that there's not enough security provided by the Americans, yet they're also frustrated with the occupation? They want less occupation and more security. It's very tough for Americans to understand.

BRAHIMI: Yes, it is difficult for people on the outside to understand, no matter where you are, really, because obviously the reflex or the reaction is to think, Well, you know, they were freed from this terrible dictator, what more do they want, and why aren't they happy?

And yes, actually, people do recognize that in Iraq. Many people think that that was a good thing. They're very happy that Saddam Hussein is gone.

That said, they don't necessarily think that their lives have improved in the way that they expected these live to improve. And not just because of the electricity, but mainly because things like material gains, unemployment. These things are bad enough. But it's the climate of insecurity.

And considering the kind of climate -- I mean, when I'm in Baghdad, I can tell you - you know, you hear gunfire every night. You don't know when the next bomb is going to hit. You don't know when -- where the next rocket attack is going to hit - if it's going to shatter the hotel next to you or actually where you're sleeping.

And so, it is a concern. And if you take into account the amount of security there is in a place like Baghdad, Iraqis are actually relatively optimistic when you look at what they go through, what they've been through, and they still hope that something will improve.

What they are saying, though, is things haven't improved, and they're disappointed. They expected so much more from the United States. They expected such -- such better lives. And they see the U.S. with all its means, as the superpower. They don't understand why the U.S. cannot bring them security, why there's this impossibility.

And also, obviously, as the occupying power, they know the U.S. has this responsibility to make the city safe, and they just really don't understand why it's not happening. So that's why many people are very frustrated and angry. It's humiliating enough, many people say, to have U.S. troops on our soil. If they're not going to bring us a better life, than why go through this?

So I know it's very hard to understand for people on the outside, and especially in a country where they're sending their boys and these -- you know, Americans are risking their lives for that. But on the Iraqi side, from the Iraqi perspective, there is a total misunderstanding of this huge power and how it's incapable of bringing them a better life that they hoped for.

ROMANS: And Rym, those concerns about Iraq and terrorism fears, part of the reason for falling markets this week. I'm back on that story right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DON EVANS, COMMERCE SECRETARY: Understand, we need to stay very focused on results, and the results are that we have been creating jobs, positive jobs, for the last six months.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: Commerce Secretary Don Evans -- and longtime friend and political ally of the president -- claim jobs are increasing, and that, of course, can depend on what period of time you focus on.

Welcome back. We're ON THE STORY.

BASH: But the question this election year, Christine, is where are the jobs?

ROMANS: Right.

BASH: They're not there.

ROMANS: Well, Don Evans and the White House will tell you that the average jobs creation over the past six months is 61,000 jobs and that is a trend going in the right direction. That's the message that the White House has had. And it has stuck with that message.

But...

BASH: Oh, yes.

ROMANS: Absolutely. But, just to make up for population growth, you have to have 150,000 jobs a month. A healthy economy creates about 250,000 jobs a month. So this is still very sub-par jobs growth. And it has a lot of folks very concerned, from Washington to Wall Street to Main Street as well.

STARR: But while that's going on, you have the stock markets kind of going in a different direction -- not yet at that market correction but sort of headed there.

ROMANS: It's been a couple rough week. This week was another week where you saw the Nasdaq down 2 percent.

Remember, it has been a fantastic year in the stock market and a lot of people just have been so used to bad results they haven't been paying very much attention. It's been a great year. Now you have terrorism fears renewed; you have this sticky job situation, which continues to haunt the market. It's kind of a twisted way, too, because when companies cut jobs, Wall Street tends to like it. It means the profits of the companies are going to go up and that's good for the stock price. Except at some point, when companies are cutting workers, workers are also shareholders, they're also consumers, who are spending money. So it's this vicious cycle, and that's what's really starting to bedevil the stock market a little bit. A lot of economists say, Listen, we're going to have a great, big 200,000, 300,000 jobs report, one of these days, but they've been saying that for months and it hasn't happened yet. It's a real mystery. It is really a mystery.

BRAHIMI: Well, you know, seen from the outside, we've been going through a lot of issues since -- in the past half hour together, discussing, you know, what's happening in Pakistan, discussing Iraq one year later, and now the economy. So which of these issues -- is the economy the main factor in an election? Is that the main issue, as the rest of the world believes, that Americans don't care about anything except their jobs and the economy? What can you tell us?

ROMANS: Well, security is real high on the list, too, Rym, at this point. You know, and after Madrid last week, that really got a lot of folk's attention. And people were saying it's a slap in the face, a reminder that terrorism and security fears are prevalent, they are there. And if it can happen in Madrid, you know, God forbid it happen again somewhere else, God forbid it happen in the United States again.

So that is one reason why people continue to be a little bit nervous. But you talk about politics and -- you know, it will be another seven or eight months where we'll have some real dueling economic outlooks, I predict. And that -- politics, the economy -- if you get jobs growth coming in if you can see job growths coming in, that would be a real boon for the president and, frankly, for Wall Street because Wall Street likes to see incumbents stay in office. They don't like things to be roiled up. They want continuity. That's always good for Wall Street.

KAGAN: OK, let's give Rym some material - extra material (ph) that we Americans are materialistic, caring about mortgage rates, and credit-card rates, and that lead to the fed, Christine. What are the chances the fed is going to raise interest rates?

ROMANS: You know, a lot of people, Daryn, tell me the fed's not going to raise rates until some time in 2005. And last summer, everyone said interest rates would be higher now, the housing market would slow dramatically because mortgage rates would go up.

Mortgage rates are unbelievable. The 10-year note, which mortgage rates are based off of, got as low as 3.65 percent this week. People are calling for 3.5 percent, 3.55 percent. It's a lot of number, it's a lot of, you know, geeky kind of stuff. But if you've bought a house, if you're a homeowner you know the refinancings continue.

So for homeowners -- not necessarily for the nation's labor market -- but for homeowners at least, things still look pretty good.

BASH: Can't let you go without talking about Martha. Sorry, Christine.

ROMANS: I've been talking about Martha for months -- actually, year, since the end of 2001. Martha Stewart this week, her lawyer sent out letters to friend and acquaintances, asking them to, you know, vouch for her character and send letters to the judge, the sentencing judge. You know, she'll be sentenced June 17, she and her stockbroker, Peter Bacanovic. If you've been living in a cave, then you don't know she was found guilty last week in a conspiracy trial related to a stock trade from 2001.

I'd just like to point something out. That was a 4,000-share stock trade. Meantime, we have other, very big trials going on. In fact, some of the biggest corporate corruption trials ever are happening at the same time. So it's not all about Martha Stewart and now her conviction. There are still some other very, very big issues involving a lot more money working that are working their way through the legal system.

BASH: But I have a feeling we'll keep talking about Martha.

ROMANS: She's famous. People love to talk about Martha.

BASH: Well, we'll say good-bye to Rym Brahimi in London.

Before we let you go, Rym, tell us what you're working on today.

BRAHIMI: Well, as you know, there's an initiative President Bush has been trying to put forward for reform in the Middle East and the reaction on the part of a lot of Arab countries has been, We'll go about reform our own way, thank you very much. So I'm going to go to the region and see how it plays out, and hopefully, we'll be talking soon.

BASH: OK, Rym. Thanks so much.

And here, the war in Iraq, the economy, all of those stories rumbled through the presidential campaign this week. I'm back ON THE STORY - that story in a moment.

Now to Atlanta and what's making news at this hour.

SAN MIGUEL: Pakistani military forces have arrested over 100 suspects in the ongoing assault on suspected militant fighter. But a top al Qaeda official is not among them. The Pakistanis say intercepted radio communications suggest that Ayman al-Zawahiri is not the man the fighters are trying to protect.

Taiwan's Central Election Commission says President Chen Shui- bian has narrowly won re-election. Voter turnout was heavy, one day after an assassination attempt on the president. The opposition candidate says the election was unfair and he is calling for a recount.

President Bush head to Florida today. It is the first official rally of his re-election campaign. Organizers are expecting several thousand people at the event in Orlando. After the disputed 2000 recount, Florida is, again, at the center of electoral politics.

And as some mark the anniversary of the war in Iraq with praise, others around the world are making it with protest. In Rome, tens of thousands took to the streets urging an end to the U.S.-led occupation in Iraq. Others cities holding anti-war demonstrations: London, Madrid, Tokyo, Bangkok, Seoul, manila, and Sydney, Australia.

Those are the headlines at this hour. ON THE STORY will be back with a look at campaign 2004.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATE: The senator from Massachusetts has given us ample doubts about his judgment and the attitude he brings to bear on vital issues of national security.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're still bogged down in Iraq. And the administration stubbornly holds to failed unilateral policies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Vice President Dick Cheney and Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry, firing away on Wednesday. The real-life battleground in Iraq has become a political one as well.

Welcome back. We're ON THE STORY.

STARR: Dana, it's getting nasty out there. Is it March? Is it November? Is it October? What are we -- what is going on?

BASH: I was sitting at my desk this week, getting e-mail after e-mail from the Bush campaign, from the Kerry campaign, thinking to myself, Wasn't it just a few weeks ago that I was calling the campaign saying, Are you going to go on the air with ads yet? Are you going to hit back yet? You know, when is it going to start? And now it's not stopping.

But yes, it's absolutely amazing how the barbs are going back so quickly. And there's a reason for it. It's because the Bush campaign really does see this window of opportunity, as somebody described it to me last night, where people are still paying attention to the presidential race. They don't feel like John Kerry got defined well enough by his Democratic opponents, so they have to do it for him.

He came out of the primary pretty much unscathed because of the Dean phenomenon and they really need to get him down. So that's why you've seen these attack ads. The second one this week hitting him in West Virginia, when he was there on defense issues. You saw Dick Cheney, you saw a whole host of surrogates out, they are trying - in these precious weeks, they think -- to knock him down. And they think that they're doing OK. You see that there is a slight difference already in the polls. KAGAN: One place they tried to get John Kerry over this last week, Dana, was on this claim that he made that he has talked with world leaders who have saying privately they hope he get elected as president of the United States because that would help world affairs, and then you have the president basically calling him out saying, Well, who are you talking about and why don't you name names?

Somewhat ironic, don't you think, for an administration that likes to conduct so much of its business behind closed doors?

BASH: That's an interesting point. It's one that was brought up in the briefing this week with the White House spokesman, saying, Isn't it also your policy not to tell us what the private conversations are of the president and world leaders?

But this is an interesting issue, because this is something John Kerry said last week and the Bush campaign was keeping it going this week, because they think it fits perfectly into their strategy that he is somebody -- they label it crazy-talk. That doesn't really say things before thinking about them, almost trying to make him into a Howard Dean. And you saw the president himself, from the Oval Office, saying name names, essentially saying - you're making -- we're going to assume you're making it up if you're not telling us what it is.

It's all part of the credibility wars that we're going to see back and forth. Who's credible? Who's not?

ROMANS: And the economic wars, we're going to see back and forth as well, because you have John Kerry coining the phrase Benedict Arnold CEO. Boy, that's got a lot of currency on mainstream America and with -- you know, frankly, with the manufacturing sector as well.

But what about the - what about the message on the economy? And - gosh, you know, with these job losses -- Don Evans, has been, frankly, very on message. What about the White House? The white house must be concerned. This has got to be a top priority.

BASH: You know, I was thinking a couple weeks ago when the job numbers came out -- maybe it was last week. For the Bush White House, that is always so on message, even in private -- t was impossible for them to hide their disappointment when they saw those job numbers and they certainly are nervous about it. I mean, all you've been talk about with the economy.

They are going to pivot this week from national security -- obviously, this whole week, the message was, the war in Iraq, the war on terrorism. They're going to turn back to domestic issues, back to the economy. We're probably going to hear the president talking about that today in his first campaign rally of his re-election campaign in Orlando. But certainly, they are concerned.

But they like to focus on the other things. They like to focus on housing starts and on consumer confidence and things like that. The question is whether voters do.

(CROSSTALK) STARR: Dana, as we're looking, and we see these pictures from Fort Campbell, that was the message of the week.

But did the president really get the bounce he wanted off that? Was it overtaken by these other events? Did he really succeed, in his message, for the one-year anniversary of the war?

BASH: Well, it's really interesting. They had planned this week, all of these features -- the event in Fort Campbell and then, of course, the big event yesterday in the East Room. And the whole plan was to sort of call on the world, call on allies, to put differences over Iraq behind them, to move forward together in the war on terrorism...

STARR: Didn't quite help him, did it?

BASH: Well, it didn't, and it took on such a different meaning this week because of what happened on Sundays with the elections in Spain. He lost a key ally there. And, as we were talking about with Rym, it certainly has sent ripple effects across Europe. You've heard that the president, his national security adviser -- they have been working the phones all week long to try to hold this coalition together, to keep the troops that are probably not that important militarily, but certainly symbolically, from other countries in Iraq.

So this message certainly turned into something that they didn't really expect this week.

KAGAN: Dana, you think this show has a lot of women -- what about the Bush campaign? They have been zeroing in on the women vote, a vote they lost to Al Gore in 2000. You see him speaking before women's groups in Cleveland, also talking about how the war on terror relates to women. How important and how key is the women vote to the Bush campaign this time around?

BASH: Well, women make up a lot of the swing voters, and the swing voters are always, in every election, what you're going for, particularly in this election, when people have such strong feelings about President Bush, that, you know, most people either, you know, want him to win or they don't want him to win. And that middle ground is so small.

But you mention national security and you sort of heard a lot about the security moms in the 2002 the midterm elections. They still think that is a viable vote, if you will, and that is why the president, his campaign, want to pump up to really his wartime credentials, the fact that he is the guy who they all liked after September 11 and he can lead the country, you know, through the war on terrorism. That's what we heard from the president all week long. And certainly, women were a key target in on that message.

KAGAN: Well, believe it not, even politics can take a backseat to college basketball. You mix in gambling and you get a very popular combination.

I'm back on that story right after this. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The NCA is concerned about two item as it relates to sports wagering.

First of all, the integrity of the game. And second, just as important, the well being of our student athletes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: That NCAA official Bill Sahm (ph). He was talking about concerns over bets and it's rare to find any place at this time of year without at least of talk of college basketball, if not full board betting.

Welcome back. We are ON THE STORY.

ROMANS: You know, Daryn, my husband tells me I picked great teams this year, although I really didn't even pick any teams.

But betting, the office pool, on March madness, on NCAA tournaments, a huge business. And I was talking to a gambling lawyer earlier this week. He told me, you know, it's illegal. He says millions of people in California right now are breaking the law. Ahh. And he said that, you know, legally, the people who collect the bets don't have to pay.

KAGAN: Yes, try -- try pulling that off in your particular office.

Yes, I understand the only woman on the show who has filled out her brackets this year.

You know, it is so popular. The NCAA by the way says they are fully in favor of people filling in their bracket. It's the betting that they have a concern about. And there was a study that came out this week from a job placement survey, company, Chicago. They say if people in office pools took 10 minutes a day to focus on this they believe it's going to cost American industry $1.5 billion.

The other side of this, though is if you have one activity that everyone in the office is focused on, it actually might help office morale and increase productivity, because at least it's a single activity and everyone's focused.

STARR: Well, Daryn, you are, indeed, the only person on this show that has fill filled out your bracket. We'll confess that.

And I guess what people want to know is, Who have you picked?

KAGAN: Oh, you want to know my Final Four? Yes. It's a state secret. But for the Pentagon, Barbara, I'll tell you. My Final Four...

STARR: Off the record, Daryn.

KAGAN: Off the record, completely. There you have, Kentucky, Oklahoma State, Duke, and 00 I had to be loyal to my alma matter, Stanford, even though they'll probably go up against Bob Novak's alma matter of Maryland. He called me out on the air, if you were watching in the last hour - he's following his Terrapins on the road.

BASH: Daryn, I'm fascinating with that whole idea -- hold up that bracket again. There are actually brakatologist (ph) experts.

KAGAN: Not only are there are experts -- I dare you to do this. Go to Google, and just put in office pool and NCAA. There is software you can download. There is no end to the kind of help you can get.

What ends up happening in most of these office pools, though -- somebody like Christine was saying, you know, somebody who knows nothing, puts a dartboard...

ROMANS: Who would that be?

KAGAN: Now, I'm not saying you don't, I'm just saying that there's -- on any given day, any team can win, and that's why this tournament has so much fascination. Just, basically, the Cinderella and the upset stories.

ROMANS: OK, so this is the warm and fuzzy part of the NCAA's March Madness. You know, everybody watching it around the TVs at work.

But there's also, I mean, some bigger issues here.

First, the booze advertisements.

KAGAN: Right.

ROMANS: Which, you know, some people say just isn't fair. I mean, most of these people who are playing these game aren't really old enough and a lot of college kids aren't old enough to be drinking.

And also, this whole idea that, you know, people are making millions and millions of dollars off these kids who, frankly, you know, can't take a Big Mac from somebody because they'd be in violation of NCAA rules.

KAGAN: Right. Two separate issues.

What the -- players having to stay amateur, that's the NCAA. It's a huge powerhouse, and those issues do continue to develop.

But this beer advertising issue -- there also is a new call out by a group calling for all these colleges, 1,200 colleges, to sign something they're called the college commitment, where they would commit to not accepting a single dime from any of these beer advertising companies. Because this tournament has more beer advertising than any other sporting event combined, and when you look at the problem of college drinking on college campuses, people saying it's hypocritical. How can you take money from a beer advertising company, at the same time you are trying to address the problem of underage drinking, especially on college campuses.

STARR: Well, Daryn, turning to another sport, it's springtime, and men across America -- their hearts turn to golf this time of year. SO we're coming back to the same story we talked about last year -- women, golf. Are women going to be on the tour?

KAGAN: Yes -- well, actually, you're seeing Michelle Wie. She is a young 13-year-old. She is trying to make her way. And also, Annika Sorenstam. We saw that over the last year.

But a bigger issue coming up, Barbara, is the Masters. This is one of -- people's favorite golf tournament. It's coming up - it begins April 5, not that far from here in Atlanta -- at Augusta National.

The big issue here, women are not allowed to belong to Augusta National. They're allowed to play as a guest. And a woman named Martha Burke in recent years has taken this up as a cause, saying that how can you have CEOs of major corporations, publicly-traded corporations have their fees paid for -- she said that she's made inroads of corporate America and she's going to make an announcement in the next couple of weeks in terms of getting corporate America to agree with her very controversial stand.

We'll have more on that ahead here on CNN.

ROMANS: All right. Thanks, Daryn.

From sports, we're back ON THE STORY after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROMANS: And now, travels with Barbara. Take a look at this picture. Military aircraft -- destinations including Iraq, Afghanistan. And our Barbara Starr on board, working frantically to get you the story.

Oh wait, she's resting her eyes. What were you doing, sleeping?

STARR: We have no secrets here at CNN. Everything is for the entire public to know.

That was a couple of weeks ago, traveling with Secretary Rumsfeld through Iraq and Afghanistan. And I'm going to, in my self-defense, say, I was not sleeping. We were about -- as I recall, we were about to do a tactical landing into Afghanistan and that's where the plane -- to put it delicately, makes a steep spiral landing over the airfield so there's much less risk of being actually shot down.

ROMANS: That's thrilling.

STARR: And it can turn your stomach.

So I have -- having done several tactical landings now into Afghanistan and Iraq, I have a firm policy of closing my eyes and pretending that's not happening. BASH: Well, you'll be happy to know you look like everybody on the White House press plane with their eyes closed. But...

STARR: Passed out.

BASH: What's it like to travel with Donald Rumsfeld?

STARR: He is the most amazing plan. He's, like, 71 year old. Everyone on the plane, the entire press corps - you know, what are we? Many years younger than him. Some of the - some people..

ROMANS: Decades.

STARR: Some people on that plane, a good 30 years younger than him. We, as you can see, are dragging.

Not the secretary of defense. And I should mention that picture was actually sent to me by Joyce Rumsfeld, Mrs. Rumsfeld. She joined part of the trip, she was part of an official delegation in Afghanistan touring facilities to help Afghan women. She came back with us on the plane. She sent me the picture a couple days after we got home and she is just a lovely, lovely woman. She's really terrific. She's a lot of fun.

ROMANS: God, Dana, what's it like when you travel on the plane? You travel on a plane...

BASH: It's exactly like that. Oh, yes, it's exactly like that. We're all strapped in -- no. It's a little different on Air Force One.

(CROSSTALK)

ROMANS: ...to land at Reagan National, right?

BASH: A little bit different. A little more sedate, I would say. A lot more sedate.

ROMANS: All right. Stay with us. We're back ON THE STORY after this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: Gennifer Flowers, back in the news. What's her story? More when we come back.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: Gennifer Flowers - what's her story? No success in court this month for the woman who claimed a long-time affair with former President Bill Clinton. Two of her cases were tossed out.

In Las Vegas, a federal judge dismissed her defamation suit against two former advisers to President Bill Clinton, who suggested she doctored audiotapes that she said proved her relationship with Mr. Clinton. And in Washington, a federal judge threw out her lawsuit against the IRS, in which she claimed a, quote "a highly suspect" audit of her tax returns.

Conservative public interest group Judicial Watch filed both cases on her behalf.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Thanks to my colleagues and thank you for watching ON THE STORY. We'll be back next week.

Still ahead, "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS," focusing this week on the al Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri.

And at 12 noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific, "CNN LIVE SATURDAY."

And at 1 p.m. Eastern, 10 a.m. Pacific, CNN's "IN THE MONEY."

Coming up right now, a check of the top stories.

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Iraq; Pakistan Doubts al-Zawahiri Among Those Surrounded>


Aired March 20, 2004 - 10:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RENAY SAN MIGUEL, CNN ANCHOR: Top stories at this hour:
Pakistani forces are pounding the positions of al Qaeda fighters for a fifth day in northwest Pakistan. There is now some question whether al Qaeda No. 2, Ayman al-Zawahiri, is with the fighters. The photo provided by the Pakistani military shows some of the compounds under attack. The Pakistanis say they've cleared eight of these compounds and captures 100 suspects.

Two anti-war protesters climbed London's Big Ben on a day of global demonstrations marking the anniversary of the U.S. invasion of Iraq. A big turnout is expect in Spain, where last week's bombings were linked by many to Spain's assistance in the war.

President Bush will appear at the first official rally of his re- election campaign today. Organizers expect up to 15,000 people at an Orlando convention center. The president has actually been campaigning for months, but at receptions for GOP donors and taxpayer- funded events.

Supporters of Taiwanese President Chen Shui-bian are celebrating his re-election but opponent Lien Chan says, Not so fast. Lien is calling for a recount of today's close results. A spokesman for the president says, in principle he has no objection to that.

Those are the top stories at this hour. ON THE STORY begins right now.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to CNN's ON THE STORY, where our journalists have the inside word on the stories we covered this week.

I'm Barbara Starr, ON THE STORY of the latest in Iraq, and those claims from Pakistan that a senior al Qaeda leader is surrounded.

RYM BRAHIMI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Rym Brahimi in London, ON THE STORY of a year since Iraq war. A new suspicion in Europe and the Muslim world over the U.S. motives and policy.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I'm - I'm Dana Bash, ON THE STORY of how the war and national security are at the heart of the presidential campaign.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Daryn Kagan in Atlanta. I am ON THE STORY. We have one distraction from war and politics: basketball. Whether you have filled out your brackets or not, we're going to talk about some fresh concerns about gambling and college hoops.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNNfn CORRESPONDENT: And I'm Christine Romans, ON THE STORY of how the markets still can't dig themselves out of the latest worries over jobs and terrorism.

We'll also be talking about the impact of the government's defeat in Spain after the terrorism strike there.

We'll have the latest on Martha Stewart's efforts to stay out of prison.

And we'll ask Barbara why she has her eyes closed in this military aircraft.

E-mail us at onthestory@cnn.com.

Now, straight ahead to Barbara and one year later.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: That spirit carried the American soldier across Europe to help liberate a continent. It's the same spirit that carried you across Iraq to set a nation free.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: President Bush, Thursday, at Fort Campbell, Kentucky, praising the troops on the one-year anniversary of the start of the Iraq war, or, as President Bush told the troops, in a year Saddam went from a palace, to a bunker, to a spider hole to jail.

But, of course, here in Washington, by the end of the week, the one-year anniversary largely overshadowed by what's going on in Pakistan, what continues to go on in Pakistan, as we sit here right now. This assault by Pakistani troops in the tribal areas, against a compound where they said earlier in the week they believed Ayman al- Zawahiri, the No. 2 to Osama bin Laden, was holed up, and by all accounts, from people on the ground, the fighting getting more and more furious as the hours go on.

BRAHIMI: Barbara, as the world, in effect, watches these developments with great interest, there are of course several questions and the perspective, as you can imagine, from Europe is very different. And one of the questions that we hear a lot is, first of all, what will this military action or this -- these clashes -- what's going to happen now in Pakistan? Is this going to affect the domestic scene more, or is there any chance that it will in fact, really deal a blow to world terrorism in the way that the U.S. is hoping maybe it will?

STARR: Well, you know, Rym, people who watch this area of the world say this really is putting Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf on the hot seat. He has a very delicate situation in his country with this area, where Pakistani military forces have not operated before. So all of this being watched very closely. But here in Washington, the Bush administration took great pains to immediately say, even if they were to capture Zawahiri it wouldn't mean a lot to the war on terrorism. It wouldn't really be that pivotal. And, of course, that's because the administration now saying that they really believe al Qaeda has morphed from a hierarchical situation run by bin Laden and Zawahiri and their close associates to something much more worldwide, much - much more spread out, much more difficult to understand.

KAGAN: Barbara, I'm hoping you can give us the inside view from inside the Pentagon. Much is made within Pakistan that this is the Pakistani military that is running this show. It's not the U.S. military. They're operating in Afghanistan.

And yet, you get the feeling that somehow, behind the scenes, there's some kind of advisory role or some kind of involvement from the U.S. military. What can you tell us about that?

STARR: You know, Daryn, you're absolutely right.

Of course, there's official Washington -- no one is going to say that the U.S. military is doing anything more than watching television, you know, to get the word about all of this. That's the official word.

But behind the scenes, it's very clear there is a military strategy. There's an intelligence strategy. The U.S. is doing a lot more than just watching television hour by hour. For the last several days, if not weeks, intelligence assets have been pouring into that region. They're keeping an eye on both sides of the border, Afghanistan, Pakistan. And what a lot of people may not immediately realize -- the U.S. can put its eyes and ears up in airplanes, stay on the Afghan side of the border, and keep a very close watch across the mountains, across the border. And if they were to stray a little bit across into Pakistan, in some high-flying spy plane, who would know?

Very clear that there are communications, intelligence and support links between the United States and Pakistan as this goes on.

BASH: But another part of the reason why there's caution is because the Bush administration has sort of invested in the Pakistani intelligence before and not exactly gotten what they thought they were going to get.

STARR: Well, you know, that's very interesting, because, today, out of Islamabad, suddenly the Pakistani government, the Pakistani military, changing tone a little bit, not so definitive that Zawahiri is in that compound. Maybe it's a criminal, they say. They're just being very cautious. And what's hard to tell is, that - for public consumption -- they have people who come out of that compound who say Zawahiri's there. Now, today, the Pakistanis being a little more vague. What exactly is going on?

And, of course, what no one is talking about is where is Osama bin Laden? Did he already get away? Is he somewhere, hotfooting it across the border back into Afghanistan? No one knows. ROMANS: Even if Zawahiri is there, success isn't guaranteed. We've had top al Qaeda people cornered before, haven't we?

STARR: Well, absolutely right. Of course, you know, in March 2002, they thought they had bin Laden cornered in the assault at Tora Bora in Afghanistan and he slipped that net.

So, you know, officially, no one's really talking. But the Pentagon, the CIA, still being a little cautious, but still lending a lot of support behind the scenes. Every one -- the worst kept secret in the world was the spring offensive, was the actual strategy that this was the time frame in which both the U.S. and the Pakistanis would begin to make their move, try and narrow the box, keep these people from moving around, and then move in and get them. That had always been the strategy. That's what's unfolding. The only surprise was that the Pakistanis began to talk about it so publicly this week. That's really the surprise in the works there.

BRAHIMI: Barbara - Barbara, you were saying how precisely this operation has, in effect, put Pakistan or the Pakistani government, at any rate, in the hot seat, because it is now in this position where it really has to show its hand and it has to do more than just say it's supporting the war on terror; it really has to show it by actions.

But isn't that precisely the contradiction, that the U.S. and that the war on terror, in a way, has brought out in a lot of countries -- that if they were maybe truly more democratic or less forceful, would actually not yield that kind of result?

STARR: It's putting a lot of countries in the hot seat. As you know better than me, Rym, it's absolutely right.

You know, as al Qaeda -- I think you've followed this closely over the years -- as al Qaeda begins to be less of a well understood organization, as you see these cells across various countries beginning to be responsible, may perhaps -- with the Spanish train attacks -- what do various governments do? How do you develop a strategy to go after this multi-headed monster?

It's becoming increasingly difficult. Everything that we've been told is now actually coming to pass. Various cells in various countries, operating on their own, perhaps not even taking direction from the top. It's going to be -- it's going to put a lot of governments in the hot seat, one can only assume.

KAGAN: And Barbara, while the world focuses on Pakistan, let's not forget the other significance of this week, the one-year anniversary of the start of the war in Iraq. What do you think the U.S. military has learned over that last year?

STARR: Well, they've learned, Daryn, that those precision weapons work.

But, of course, the question is, they only hit the targets they're aimed at. What about the intelligence? You can hit what you aim at, but what's there? Of course, the pesky little question is where's the WMD?

KAGAN: The what?

STARR: Yes. That? That little matter?

They hit an awful lot of targets. The weapons worked. The strategy worked. Getting rid of the conventional Iraqi military worked.

But they didn't get Saddam Hussein for many months. They did a lot to try and go after him. They did eventually get him.

The question, of course, is what now? Twelve, 14 weeks away from transition to a new Iraqi government, but no Iraqi government to transition to. No established game plan at this moment about who will actually take control on June 30.

BRAHIMI: Well, that one-year anniversary of the war in Iraq is being watched all over the world, as, at the same time in many countries in the Europe and the Muslim world, the public opinion turns increasingly further against the United States.

I'm on that story in just a moment.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: Rym Brahimi is a CNN international correspondent and reported from Baghdad during the war in Iraq. She has a master's in English literature from the University of Paris and a journalism degree from Columbia University. She speaks French, Italian and Arabic.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: In the civilized world, there's only one path to safety. We will stay united and we will fight until this enemy is broken.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRAHIMI: We will stay united, says President Bush on Thursday, but the Spanish election results as well as new opinion polls, suggest that international cooperation is in trouble.

Welcome back. I'm ON THE STORY.

KAGAN: And, Rym, as we mentioned earlier, that this is -- this does mark the one-year anniversary of the start of the war in Iraq.

I understand you're just back from some anti-war demonstrations there in London. Tell us what you're seeing.

BRAHIMI: Well, initially, there weren't -- didn't seem to be that many people. But then it just grew and grew, you know, Daryn. And a number of people started increasing to a point where a lot of people said it looked like there will probably be as many people as this time last year, when people actually went out into the street to demonstrate to prevent the war, or against the war, that they were hoping maybe they would be able to prevent.

This time around, it's not so much obviously -- it's not just the war. This time around, what people are angry about, what people are protesting, is what they say are lies that the British government and the British prime minister, they say, has misled them, has been lying to them about weapons of mass destruction. They say the war in Iraq and the war on terrorism has actually not made the world a safer place, and a lot of people say that they would like the troops maybe not to come back immediately because a lot of people think they need to fix the mess that they say they've created in Iraq -- but they do want some change of government. A lot of people talking about punishing this government for having misled them.

BASH: Rym, I'm wondering how much you're hearing in term of fear on the street of London that what happened in Madrid last week could very well happen there, and sort of the reaction to what they saw in Madrid?

BRAHIMI: Definitely. I think the tragedy that we all saw took place in Madrid has affected everyone in Europe. And in Britain, everybody here is worried. A lot of people, almost matter-of-factly, just say, Well, no, we're expecting it to happen anytime soon here in Britain.

Now if you talk to intelligence sources, they will have a different take on this. A lot of people believe that somehow, the way the British government has been going about its own security, monitoring a lot of the groups that may have networks, even in Britain eventually - well, that they -- that might still keep them in check, that there might be some sort of way the British government has had of dealing with this. Some people even talk, you know, totally on background of some sort of agreements. But of course that's all very, very vague and not very clear.

What people are concerned about is that it will come to them. And that's just -- not just in Britain. In France and Italy, a lot of people are just wondering, Who's next now? And they all attribute that a lot to the anger that has been triggered, according to a lot of people, by the war in Iraq.

ROMANS: Let's talk a bit about the anti-war demonstrations you're seeing now. There's also, obviously, a great feeling of anti- terrorism all over Europe. But what about the feelings towards Americans? Are there anti-American feelings welling up, or are their anti-Bush feelings? Are those two different things?

BRAHIMI: It's really are more anti-Bush and anti-United States, more than anti-American. Obviously, you know, most people you talk to, be it actually in Europe or in the Muslim world, will say, No, we have nothing against the Americans. It's really about the U.S. government's policies. And what's interesting is it's not just in the Muslim world, that there is this resentment this increase of frustration, if you will, with regard to the United States. Now you have an increase in that kind of anger in Germany. There was an opinion poll conducted by the Pew research institute. It's a U.S.-based independent group, and they came up with very interesting results, saying that in Germany, in France, the anger towards the U.S. or frustration had increased. Even in Britain, which is the U.S.' best ally here in Europe, that mistrust has increased, and a lot of that mistrust is due to questions people are asking about the not, motives for going to war in Iraq, and also for the war in terror.

Now, some countries support the war on terror because they've been hit by terrorist attractions,. But the research was actually conducted before the Madrid bombings so they don't include -- they don't take that into count.

But still, a lot of people question the motives. A lot of people in Europe -- Britain, Germany and France -- believe that the war on terror, the war in Iraq, were conducted for materialistic gains, for domination, for oil reasons. A bit like a lot of people in the Muslim world, believe that.

STARR: You know, Rym, as we see these pictures of London, what's happening there today, unfolding on the street, certainly, the Blair government, the Labor Party, must be watching this very closely. And if they feel vulnerable, what's the state right now of the opposition government in Britain? Could the conservatives actually make a push and get enough support to unseat Tony Blair?

BRAHIMI: Well, there are a lot of questions, obviously, over that right now. And a lot of people think that right now, the conservatives will definitely capitalize on this mood and this impression that people have that they've been misled, they've lied to.

You saw the pictures of these two demonstrators - or, that actually climbed the Big Ben, the tower of Big Ben, and rolled down a banner saying, "time to tell the truth." This in addition to the tens of thousands of people that are expected to have walked out in the streets of London today, protesting, not only against the government's policies, but specifically, a lot of these banners that they were holding called Tony Blair a liar, pictures of Tony Blair with a long nose like Pinnochio.

And that is -- there's a lot of resentment, a lot of anger. And no doubt that the conservatives will try to capitalize on that.

That said, of course, a lot of people that are demonstrating are trying to offer new alternatives. And you will see, interestingly enough, obviously the odd communist party or leftist Socialist party. But you also have this new movement called Respect that's trying to present itself as a new Labor, a new left, an alternative to Blair's left, if you will.

KAGAN: Rym, I want to ask you about your old post in Baghdad. When we saw what happened with the bombing with the Hotel Lebanon, I think it's difficult for a lot of Americans to understand. How do Iraqis get frustrated that there's not enough security provided by the Americans, yet they're also frustrated with the occupation? They want less occupation and more security. It's very tough for Americans to understand.

BRAHIMI: Yes, it is difficult for people on the outside to understand, no matter where you are, really, because obviously the reflex or the reaction is to think, Well, you know, they were freed from this terrible dictator, what more do they want, and why aren't they happy?

And yes, actually, people do recognize that in Iraq. Many people think that that was a good thing. They're very happy that Saddam Hussein is gone.

That said, they don't necessarily think that their lives have improved in the way that they expected these live to improve. And not just because of the electricity, but mainly because things like material gains, unemployment. These things are bad enough. But it's the climate of insecurity.

And considering the kind of climate -- I mean, when I'm in Baghdad, I can tell you - you know, you hear gunfire every night. You don't know when the next bomb is going to hit. You don't know when -- where the next rocket attack is going to hit - if it's going to shatter the hotel next to you or actually where you're sleeping.

And so, it is a concern. And if you take into account the amount of security there is in a place like Baghdad, Iraqis are actually relatively optimistic when you look at what they go through, what they've been through, and they still hope that something will improve.

What they are saying, though, is things haven't improved, and they're disappointed. They expected so much more from the United States. They expected such -- such better lives. And they see the U.S. with all its means, as the superpower. They don't understand why the U.S. cannot bring them security, why there's this impossibility.

And also, obviously, as the occupying power, they know the U.S. has this responsibility to make the city safe, and they just really don't understand why it's not happening. So that's why many people are very frustrated and angry. It's humiliating enough, many people say, to have U.S. troops on our soil. If they're not going to bring us a better life, than why go through this?

So I know it's very hard to understand for people on the outside, and especially in a country where they're sending their boys and these -- you know, Americans are risking their lives for that. But on the Iraqi side, from the Iraqi perspective, there is a total misunderstanding of this huge power and how it's incapable of bringing them a better life that they hoped for.

ROMANS: And Rym, those concerns about Iraq and terrorism fears, part of the reason for falling markets this week. I'm back on that story right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DON EVANS, COMMERCE SECRETARY: Understand, we need to stay very focused on results, and the results are that we have been creating jobs, positive jobs, for the last six months.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: Commerce Secretary Don Evans -- and longtime friend and political ally of the president -- claim jobs are increasing, and that, of course, can depend on what period of time you focus on.

Welcome back. We're ON THE STORY.

BASH: But the question this election year, Christine, is where are the jobs?

ROMANS: Right.

BASH: They're not there.

ROMANS: Well, Don Evans and the White House will tell you that the average jobs creation over the past six months is 61,000 jobs and that is a trend going in the right direction. That's the message that the White House has had. And it has stuck with that message.

But...

BASH: Oh, yes.

ROMANS: Absolutely. But, just to make up for population growth, you have to have 150,000 jobs a month. A healthy economy creates about 250,000 jobs a month. So this is still very sub-par jobs growth. And it has a lot of folks very concerned, from Washington to Wall Street to Main Street as well.

STARR: But while that's going on, you have the stock markets kind of going in a different direction -- not yet at that market correction but sort of headed there.

ROMANS: It's been a couple rough week. This week was another week where you saw the Nasdaq down 2 percent.

Remember, it has been a fantastic year in the stock market and a lot of people just have been so used to bad results they haven't been paying very much attention. It's been a great year. Now you have terrorism fears renewed; you have this sticky job situation, which continues to haunt the market. It's kind of a twisted way, too, because when companies cut jobs, Wall Street tends to like it. It means the profits of the companies are going to go up and that's good for the stock price. Except at some point, when companies are cutting workers, workers are also shareholders, they're also consumers, who are spending money. So it's this vicious cycle, and that's what's really starting to bedevil the stock market a little bit. A lot of economists say, Listen, we're going to have a great, big 200,000, 300,000 jobs report, one of these days, but they've been saying that for months and it hasn't happened yet. It's a real mystery. It is really a mystery.

BRAHIMI: Well, you know, seen from the outside, we've been going through a lot of issues since -- in the past half hour together, discussing, you know, what's happening in Pakistan, discussing Iraq one year later, and now the economy. So which of these issues -- is the economy the main factor in an election? Is that the main issue, as the rest of the world believes, that Americans don't care about anything except their jobs and the economy? What can you tell us?

ROMANS: Well, security is real high on the list, too, Rym, at this point. You know, and after Madrid last week, that really got a lot of folk's attention. And people were saying it's a slap in the face, a reminder that terrorism and security fears are prevalent, they are there. And if it can happen in Madrid, you know, God forbid it happen again somewhere else, God forbid it happen in the United States again.

So that is one reason why people continue to be a little bit nervous. But you talk about politics and -- you know, it will be another seven or eight months where we'll have some real dueling economic outlooks, I predict. And that -- politics, the economy -- if you get jobs growth coming in if you can see job growths coming in, that would be a real boon for the president and, frankly, for Wall Street because Wall Street likes to see incumbents stay in office. They don't like things to be roiled up. They want continuity. That's always good for Wall Street.

KAGAN: OK, let's give Rym some material - extra material (ph) that we Americans are materialistic, caring about mortgage rates, and credit-card rates, and that lead to the fed, Christine. What are the chances the fed is going to raise interest rates?

ROMANS: You know, a lot of people, Daryn, tell me the fed's not going to raise rates until some time in 2005. And last summer, everyone said interest rates would be higher now, the housing market would slow dramatically because mortgage rates would go up.

Mortgage rates are unbelievable. The 10-year note, which mortgage rates are based off of, got as low as 3.65 percent this week. People are calling for 3.5 percent, 3.55 percent. It's a lot of number, it's a lot of, you know, geeky kind of stuff. But if you've bought a house, if you're a homeowner you know the refinancings continue.

So for homeowners -- not necessarily for the nation's labor market -- but for homeowners at least, things still look pretty good.

BASH: Can't let you go without talking about Martha. Sorry, Christine.

ROMANS: I've been talking about Martha for months -- actually, year, since the end of 2001. Martha Stewart this week, her lawyer sent out letters to friend and acquaintances, asking them to, you know, vouch for her character and send letters to the judge, the sentencing judge. You know, she'll be sentenced June 17, she and her stockbroker, Peter Bacanovic. If you've been living in a cave, then you don't know she was found guilty last week in a conspiracy trial related to a stock trade from 2001.

I'd just like to point something out. That was a 4,000-share stock trade. Meantime, we have other, very big trials going on. In fact, some of the biggest corporate corruption trials ever are happening at the same time. So it's not all about Martha Stewart and now her conviction. There are still some other very, very big issues involving a lot more money working that are working their way through the legal system.

BASH: But I have a feeling we'll keep talking about Martha.

ROMANS: She's famous. People love to talk about Martha.

BASH: Well, we'll say good-bye to Rym Brahimi in London.

Before we let you go, Rym, tell us what you're working on today.

BRAHIMI: Well, as you know, there's an initiative President Bush has been trying to put forward for reform in the Middle East and the reaction on the part of a lot of Arab countries has been, We'll go about reform our own way, thank you very much. So I'm going to go to the region and see how it plays out, and hopefully, we'll be talking soon.

BASH: OK, Rym. Thanks so much.

And here, the war in Iraq, the economy, all of those stories rumbled through the presidential campaign this week. I'm back ON THE STORY - that story in a moment.

Now to Atlanta and what's making news at this hour.

SAN MIGUEL: Pakistani military forces have arrested over 100 suspects in the ongoing assault on suspected militant fighter. But a top al Qaeda official is not among them. The Pakistanis say intercepted radio communications suggest that Ayman al-Zawahiri is not the man the fighters are trying to protect.

Taiwan's Central Election Commission says President Chen Shui- bian has narrowly won re-election. Voter turnout was heavy, one day after an assassination attempt on the president. The opposition candidate says the election was unfair and he is calling for a recount.

President Bush head to Florida today. It is the first official rally of his re-election campaign. Organizers are expecting several thousand people at the event in Orlando. After the disputed 2000 recount, Florida is, again, at the center of electoral politics.

And as some mark the anniversary of the war in Iraq with praise, others around the world are making it with protest. In Rome, tens of thousands took to the streets urging an end to the U.S.-led occupation in Iraq. Others cities holding anti-war demonstrations: London, Madrid, Tokyo, Bangkok, Seoul, manila, and Sydney, Australia.

Those are the headlines at this hour. ON THE STORY will be back with a look at campaign 2004.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATE: The senator from Massachusetts has given us ample doubts about his judgment and the attitude he brings to bear on vital issues of national security.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're still bogged down in Iraq. And the administration stubbornly holds to failed unilateral policies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Vice President Dick Cheney and Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry, firing away on Wednesday. The real-life battleground in Iraq has become a political one as well.

Welcome back. We're ON THE STORY.

STARR: Dana, it's getting nasty out there. Is it March? Is it November? Is it October? What are we -- what is going on?

BASH: I was sitting at my desk this week, getting e-mail after e-mail from the Bush campaign, from the Kerry campaign, thinking to myself, Wasn't it just a few weeks ago that I was calling the campaign saying, Are you going to go on the air with ads yet? Are you going to hit back yet? You know, when is it going to start? And now it's not stopping.

But yes, it's absolutely amazing how the barbs are going back so quickly. And there's a reason for it. It's because the Bush campaign really does see this window of opportunity, as somebody described it to me last night, where people are still paying attention to the presidential race. They don't feel like John Kerry got defined well enough by his Democratic opponents, so they have to do it for him.

He came out of the primary pretty much unscathed because of the Dean phenomenon and they really need to get him down. So that's why you've seen these attack ads. The second one this week hitting him in West Virginia, when he was there on defense issues. You saw Dick Cheney, you saw a whole host of surrogates out, they are trying - in these precious weeks, they think -- to knock him down. And they think that they're doing OK. You see that there is a slight difference already in the polls. KAGAN: One place they tried to get John Kerry over this last week, Dana, was on this claim that he made that he has talked with world leaders who have saying privately they hope he get elected as president of the United States because that would help world affairs, and then you have the president basically calling him out saying, Well, who are you talking about and why don't you name names?

Somewhat ironic, don't you think, for an administration that likes to conduct so much of its business behind closed doors?

BASH: That's an interesting point. It's one that was brought up in the briefing this week with the White House spokesman, saying, Isn't it also your policy not to tell us what the private conversations are of the president and world leaders?

But this is an interesting issue, because this is something John Kerry said last week and the Bush campaign was keeping it going this week, because they think it fits perfectly into their strategy that he is somebody -- they label it crazy-talk. That doesn't really say things before thinking about them, almost trying to make him into a Howard Dean. And you saw the president himself, from the Oval Office, saying name names, essentially saying - you're making -- we're going to assume you're making it up if you're not telling us what it is.

It's all part of the credibility wars that we're going to see back and forth. Who's credible? Who's not?

ROMANS: And the economic wars, we're going to see back and forth as well, because you have John Kerry coining the phrase Benedict Arnold CEO. Boy, that's got a lot of currency on mainstream America and with -- you know, frankly, with the manufacturing sector as well.

But what about the - what about the message on the economy? And - gosh, you know, with these job losses -- Don Evans, has been, frankly, very on message. What about the White House? The white house must be concerned. This has got to be a top priority.

BASH: You know, I was thinking a couple weeks ago when the job numbers came out -- maybe it was last week. For the Bush White House, that is always so on message, even in private -- t was impossible for them to hide their disappointment when they saw those job numbers and they certainly are nervous about it. I mean, all you've been talk about with the economy.

They are going to pivot this week from national security -- obviously, this whole week, the message was, the war in Iraq, the war on terrorism. They're going to turn back to domestic issues, back to the economy. We're probably going to hear the president talking about that today in his first campaign rally of his re-election campaign in Orlando. But certainly, they are concerned.

But they like to focus on the other things. They like to focus on housing starts and on consumer confidence and things like that. The question is whether voters do.

(CROSSTALK) STARR: Dana, as we're looking, and we see these pictures from Fort Campbell, that was the message of the week.

But did the president really get the bounce he wanted off that? Was it overtaken by these other events? Did he really succeed, in his message, for the one-year anniversary of the war?

BASH: Well, it's really interesting. They had planned this week, all of these features -- the event in Fort Campbell and then, of course, the big event yesterday in the East Room. And the whole plan was to sort of call on the world, call on allies, to put differences over Iraq behind them, to move forward together in the war on terrorism...

STARR: Didn't quite help him, did it?

BASH: Well, it didn't, and it took on such a different meaning this week because of what happened on Sundays with the elections in Spain. He lost a key ally there. And, as we were talking about with Rym, it certainly has sent ripple effects across Europe. You've heard that the president, his national security adviser -- they have been working the phones all week long to try to hold this coalition together, to keep the troops that are probably not that important militarily, but certainly symbolically, from other countries in Iraq.

So this message certainly turned into something that they didn't really expect this week.

KAGAN: Dana, you think this show has a lot of women -- what about the Bush campaign? They have been zeroing in on the women vote, a vote they lost to Al Gore in 2000. You see him speaking before women's groups in Cleveland, also talking about how the war on terror relates to women. How important and how key is the women vote to the Bush campaign this time around?

BASH: Well, women make up a lot of the swing voters, and the swing voters are always, in every election, what you're going for, particularly in this election, when people have such strong feelings about President Bush, that, you know, most people either, you know, want him to win or they don't want him to win. And that middle ground is so small.

But you mention national security and you sort of heard a lot about the security moms in the 2002 the midterm elections. They still think that is a viable vote, if you will, and that is why the president, his campaign, want to pump up to really his wartime credentials, the fact that he is the guy who they all liked after September 11 and he can lead the country, you know, through the war on terrorism. That's what we heard from the president all week long. And certainly, women were a key target in on that message.

KAGAN: Well, believe it not, even politics can take a backseat to college basketball. You mix in gambling and you get a very popular combination.

I'm back on that story right after this. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The NCA is concerned about two item as it relates to sports wagering.

First of all, the integrity of the game. And second, just as important, the well being of our student athletes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: That NCAA official Bill Sahm (ph). He was talking about concerns over bets and it's rare to find any place at this time of year without at least of talk of college basketball, if not full board betting.

Welcome back. We are ON THE STORY.

ROMANS: You know, Daryn, my husband tells me I picked great teams this year, although I really didn't even pick any teams.

But betting, the office pool, on March madness, on NCAA tournaments, a huge business. And I was talking to a gambling lawyer earlier this week. He told me, you know, it's illegal. He says millions of people in California right now are breaking the law. Ahh. And he said that, you know, legally, the people who collect the bets don't have to pay.

KAGAN: Yes, try -- try pulling that off in your particular office.

Yes, I understand the only woman on the show who has filled out her brackets this year.

You know, it is so popular. The NCAA by the way says they are fully in favor of people filling in their bracket. It's the betting that they have a concern about. And there was a study that came out this week from a job placement survey, company, Chicago. They say if people in office pools took 10 minutes a day to focus on this they believe it's going to cost American industry $1.5 billion.

The other side of this, though is if you have one activity that everyone in the office is focused on, it actually might help office morale and increase productivity, because at least it's a single activity and everyone's focused.

STARR: Well, Daryn, you are, indeed, the only person on this show that has fill filled out your bracket. We'll confess that.

And I guess what people want to know is, Who have you picked?

KAGAN: Oh, you want to know my Final Four? Yes. It's a state secret. But for the Pentagon, Barbara, I'll tell you. My Final Four...

STARR: Off the record, Daryn.

KAGAN: Off the record, completely. There you have, Kentucky, Oklahoma State, Duke, and 00 I had to be loyal to my alma matter, Stanford, even though they'll probably go up against Bob Novak's alma matter of Maryland. He called me out on the air, if you were watching in the last hour - he's following his Terrapins on the road.

BASH: Daryn, I'm fascinating with that whole idea -- hold up that bracket again. There are actually brakatologist (ph) experts.

KAGAN: Not only are there are experts -- I dare you to do this. Go to Google, and just put in office pool and NCAA. There is software you can download. There is no end to the kind of help you can get.

What ends up happening in most of these office pools, though -- somebody like Christine was saying, you know, somebody who knows nothing, puts a dartboard...

ROMANS: Who would that be?

KAGAN: Now, I'm not saying you don't, I'm just saying that there's -- on any given day, any team can win, and that's why this tournament has so much fascination. Just, basically, the Cinderella and the upset stories.

ROMANS: OK, so this is the warm and fuzzy part of the NCAA's March Madness. You know, everybody watching it around the TVs at work.

But there's also, I mean, some bigger issues here.

First, the booze advertisements.

KAGAN: Right.

ROMANS: Which, you know, some people say just isn't fair. I mean, most of these people who are playing these game aren't really old enough and a lot of college kids aren't old enough to be drinking.

And also, this whole idea that, you know, people are making millions and millions of dollars off these kids who, frankly, you know, can't take a Big Mac from somebody because they'd be in violation of NCAA rules.

KAGAN: Right. Two separate issues.

What the -- players having to stay amateur, that's the NCAA. It's a huge powerhouse, and those issues do continue to develop.

But this beer advertising issue -- there also is a new call out by a group calling for all these colleges, 1,200 colleges, to sign something they're called the college commitment, where they would commit to not accepting a single dime from any of these beer advertising companies. Because this tournament has more beer advertising than any other sporting event combined, and when you look at the problem of college drinking on college campuses, people saying it's hypocritical. How can you take money from a beer advertising company, at the same time you are trying to address the problem of underage drinking, especially on college campuses.

STARR: Well, Daryn, turning to another sport, it's springtime, and men across America -- their hearts turn to golf this time of year. SO we're coming back to the same story we talked about last year -- women, golf. Are women going to be on the tour?

KAGAN: Yes -- well, actually, you're seeing Michelle Wie. She is a young 13-year-old. She is trying to make her way. And also, Annika Sorenstam. We saw that over the last year.

But a bigger issue coming up, Barbara, is the Masters. This is one of -- people's favorite golf tournament. It's coming up - it begins April 5, not that far from here in Atlanta -- at Augusta National.

The big issue here, women are not allowed to belong to Augusta National. They're allowed to play as a guest. And a woman named Martha Burke in recent years has taken this up as a cause, saying that how can you have CEOs of major corporations, publicly-traded corporations have their fees paid for -- she said that she's made inroads of corporate America and she's going to make an announcement in the next couple of weeks in terms of getting corporate America to agree with her very controversial stand.

We'll have more on that ahead here on CNN.

ROMANS: All right. Thanks, Daryn.

From sports, we're back ON THE STORY after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROMANS: And now, travels with Barbara. Take a look at this picture. Military aircraft -- destinations including Iraq, Afghanistan. And our Barbara Starr on board, working frantically to get you the story.

Oh wait, she's resting her eyes. What were you doing, sleeping?

STARR: We have no secrets here at CNN. Everything is for the entire public to know.

That was a couple of weeks ago, traveling with Secretary Rumsfeld through Iraq and Afghanistan. And I'm going to, in my self-defense, say, I was not sleeping. We were about -- as I recall, we were about to do a tactical landing into Afghanistan and that's where the plane -- to put it delicately, makes a steep spiral landing over the airfield so there's much less risk of being actually shot down.

ROMANS: That's thrilling.

STARR: And it can turn your stomach.

So I have -- having done several tactical landings now into Afghanistan and Iraq, I have a firm policy of closing my eyes and pretending that's not happening. BASH: Well, you'll be happy to know you look like everybody on the White House press plane with their eyes closed. But...

STARR: Passed out.

BASH: What's it like to travel with Donald Rumsfeld?

STARR: He is the most amazing plan. He's, like, 71 year old. Everyone on the plane, the entire press corps - you know, what are we? Many years younger than him. Some of the - some people..

ROMANS: Decades.

STARR: Some people on that plane, a good 30 years younger than him. We, as you can see, are dragging.

Not the secretary of defense. And I should mention that picture was actually sent to me by Joyce Rumsfeld, Mrs. Rumsfeld. She joined part of the trip, she was part of an official delegation in Afghanistan touring facilities to help Afghan women. She came back with us on the plane. She sent me the picture a couple days after we got home and she is just a lovely, lovely woman. She's really terrific. She's a lot of fun.

ROMANS: God, Dana, what's it like when you travel on the plane? You travel on a plane...

BASH: It's exactly like that. Oh, yes, it's exactly like that. We're all strapped in -- no. It's a little different on Air Force One.

(CROSSTALK)

ROMANS: ...to land at Reagan National, right?

BASH: A little bit different. A little more sedate, I would say. A lot more sedate.

ROMANS: All right. Stay with us. We're back ON THE STORY after this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: Gennifer Flowers, back in the news. What's her story? More when we come back.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: Gennifer Flowers - what's her story? No success in court this month for the woman who claimed a long-time affair with former President Bill Clinton. Two of her cases were tossed out.

In Las Vegas, a federal judge dismissed her defamation suit against two former advisers to President Bill Clinton, who suggested she doctored audiotapes that she said proved her relationship with Mr. Clinton. And in Washington, a federal judge threw out her lawsuit against the IRS, in which she claimed a, quote "a highly suspect" audit of her tax returns.

Conservative public interest group Judicial Watch filed both cases on her behalf.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Thanks to my colleagues and thank you for watching ON THE STORY. We'll be back next week.

Still ahead, "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS," focusing this week on the al Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri.

And at 12 noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific, "CNN LIVE SATURDAY."

And at 1 p.m. Eastern, 10 a.m. Pacific, CNN's "IN THE MONEY."

Coming up right now, a check of the top stories.

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Iraq; Pakistan Doubts al-Zawahiri Among Those Surrounded>