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On the Story

President Bush Defends Iraq Policy; Insurgents Want To Trade U.S. Soldier for Prisoner; Activist Randall Terry Grapples With Son's Revelation

Aired April 17, 2004 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Catherine Callaway, and here are the headlines.
At least four people are injured after an explosion at a crossing between Israel and Gaza. Israeli military officials say the blast appears to be the result of a suicide bomber.

And two kidnapped Japanese citizens were freed by their captors this morning in Baghdad. Officials say the two were released at the Japanese embassy. Three others Japanese civilians were released on Thursday.

Iraqi insurgents who are holding U.S. soldier Matt Maupin say that they will trade him for prisoners held by the U.S. This according to a videotape which aired yesterday on the Arab-language network al-Jazeera, and which Maupin appears surrounded by armed men. Military officials say that he appears scared, but otherwise in good condition.

Police in Saudi Arabia defuse a potentially explosive situation when they find a car packed with explosives. Police found the car in east -- in eastern Riyadh. They say that they had been looking for the vehicle for about two months, as part of an ongoing investigation.

And back in the U.S., a professional hockey player has been charged with arranging the murder of his male lover. Mike Danton of the St. Louis Blues faces federal charges in the case. He's suspected of setting up the plot because he was afraid the man might leave him and ruin his hockey career.

Those are the top stories. I'm Catherine Callaway, and ON THE STORY begins right now.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to CNN's ON THE STORY, where our journalists have the inside word on the stories we covered this week.

I'm Elaine Quijano, ON THE STORY of President Bush going before the cameras this week to spell out his "no regrets, full speed ahead" message on Iraq.

JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: I'm Jane Arraf in Baghdad, ON THE STORY of fighting in Iraq, concern over a wave of hostagetakings, and the reaction of troops, who after a year in theater, won't be going home quite yet.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: I'm Barbara Starr ON THE STORY of how the Pentagon brass used the attacks in Iraq and the debate over how many troops are enough.

MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN URBAN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: I'm Maria Hinojosa, ON THE STORY of Randall Terry, a pioneer in the anti- abortion movement, who is in a bitter fight with his gay son and two daughters.

KATHLEEN HAYS, CNNfn CORRESPONDENT: And I'm Kathleen Hays ON THE STORY of how we're spending money as consumers, but worried as investors.

We'll also talk about how President Bush is reacting to the 9/11 commission.

We'll talk about how we paid our taxes this week and may get back less money than we thought.

And get the summer tan without the burn. Just spray it on.

E-mail us at onthestory@cnn.com.

Now, straight ahead to Jane Arraf and homecoming delayed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I called (ph) him one day, and I was like, Hey, I don't think I'm going to make it home. Things are looking crazy here in Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: Jane, it looks like the soldiers are really settling in for a longer haul than they expected. Fallujah still a center of a lot of fighting this weekend?

ARRAF: It's kind of tense there. Not so much because there's constant fighting, but because there's the threat of a potential disaster, even more fighting.

Now there are talks that have been going on with a very senior coalition official, and this is the first time that's happened. The problem is they say they're not quite sure whether they're negotiating with the right people. And we have to understand that Fallujah -- which officials keep telling us is different. Fallujah is different. It's a special case. This is a place that seems to have attracted insurgents, foreign fighters, almost everyone, a wide variety of groups. Really, people who really feel a passion for what they're doing, Saddam regime loyalists, a lot of different reasons there.

And it's a very, very difficult problem. It is very complicated in Iraq right now.

QUIJANO: Jane, talking about security. I'm curious about maybe some of the conversations that have taken place with your colleagues because of the situation now. We're seeing different tactics in the kidnappings, people snatched -- not just out on the streets, but actually taken from offices, from what I understand. That happened with the Russians.

What has been the sort of discussion among you and your colleagues about going out to try to cover some of the events in Iraq?

ARRAF: I think people are much more careful now, and not just much more careful.

I just came from the power plant on the edge of town, in Dora. We think very carefully before going out, but obviously, we do have to go out. And in that power plant, fascinating example. This was staffed by Russians, Americans, other foreign workers, as well as a lot of Iraqis. Now most of the Russians have stayed. They say they're used to this. They made a commitment. They're going to stay and do this job, and they're making a lot more money than they would at home.

The other foreign workers have left, and when we went there, there were a lot of Iraqi technicians, a lot of Iraqi maintenance engineers, standing around saying, We don't know if they're coming back. We don't know if they'll get paid. A lot of uncertainty around, not just from journalists.

But as for what we do, we're just -- we try to be careful all the time, obviously. But now we think about every trip we make, whether we really need to make that trip, and who actually needs to make it.

HAYS: Jane, on this question of -- this seems to be a problem that's been centered to a great deal in Fallujah. Still, there are many attacks all over the country, and the convoys are so vulnerable now, trying to move supplies up across the country.

Is it really accurate to say that's in -- is it because it's mostly in Fallujah? Because it seems there's a lot of cities. We're reading in the news now where various kinds of things are happening.

ARRAF: You're absolutely right. And I always try to guard against the perception that this whole country is going up in violence and is in flames because that's what we see on the news because that's what's new.

But right now, if you took a look at a map of Iraq, you would see little pinpoints, flare-ups all over the place, and it's kind of phenomenal. Apart from the north, which is relatively stable, the coalition has just announced the closings of two more major highways. And that was an excellent point you made. How does stuff get through? I mean, pretty soon, if they block other highways, food prices will go up. There will be massive disruptions. This hasn't happened yet.

But there's that threat in Fallujah. There's the threat in the holy city of Najaf, another fascinating example. And in between there, in places we never expected it, fighting is flaring up. It's still under control, but it is worrying. HINOJOSA: Jane, I'm wondering, here in the United States, everybody is fixated on these pictures that we're seeing of one American soldier who was taken hostage. Have the Iraqis seen that photograph, and what's their reaction? And also, what are people in Iraq saying about the hostagetaking? Are they saying it's a good tactic or it's setting things back?

ARRAF: They're generally saying it is not a good tactic.

Now, when it comes to hostagetakings or anything else, I think a lot of Iraqis, most Iraqis would draw a difference between taking action against even attacking, in some cases, soldiers, who many people here feel are occupying the country -- not all, but that is a sentiment and a significant part of the population. -- and civilians. I haven't met many people who would support taking civilians hostage or attacking them or doing anything to them. Soldiers are a different case.

But, you know, the really interesting thing is we haven't seen the suicide bombs that we used to cover on almost a daily basis. The target really has shifted to foreigners, maximum impact to grab them, put out some demands -- from the attacks we were seeing, which were these big spectacular suicide bombs against Iraqi targets.

HINOJOSA: But have you seen that photograph of the soldier? Are people in Iraq seeing the photograph of the American soldier who is being held hostage, or they're not be seeing that image at all?

ARRAF: No, they are seeing that image. It was played on al- Jazeera, and people do watch al-Jazeera and other Arab channels, quite widely.

Now, the thing about that image is, I guess if you watch Arab television networks, particularly -- I hate to jump on this coalition bandwagon, but you do see a lot of really kind of bad stuff. Compared to that, this was someone who coalition officials say did not appear to -- appeared to be in good health, had no indications that he had been tortured. He kind of looked all right. And it was not terribly alarming to most people here.

Many people hope that he will be freed. People here are really empathetic. We have to remember that. They're -- you know, they're human. They have families, and they feel for the soldier's family. But it is a very delicate, complicated situation here. That balance between a U.S. occupation and a lot of people who are chafing under it.

STARR: Jane, do we have any idea why so many of these hostages that were taken over the last week or so now have been freed? Is there any indication what is getting them out of these terrible circumstances?

ARRAF: That's a really interesting thing, isn't it? I've spoken to some of the hostages. One of them was a journalist who said that after he was able to prove that he was indeed a journalist and not a soldier, not a spy, they released him. And -- fascinating. He said they were clearly Baath Party people. They referred to President Saddam Hussein. And they wanted to come out. They wanted him to come out and get their message across. That appears to be the more sophisticated hostagetakers.

Now, other ones have made specific demands. We've seen in the case of the Japanese, demands that the Japanese withdraw. The Japanese did not withdraw, but those hostages were released. It really seems to be a difference between whether they're security or soldiers or whether they're aid workers or journalists, who seem to get better treated and more quickly released.

QUIJANO: Jane Arraf, thanks for joining us. Tell us what is ON THE STORY for you in the coming week?

ARRAF: We are glued to the negotiations. The U.S. doesn't like to call them negotiations; they like to call them discussions. Whatever they are -- in Fallujah.

Really hard to get across how important this is. This entire country is incensed about what is happening in Fallujah, even people who are normally pro-coalition. And they have to find a solution there.

They have to find a solution in Najaf as well. And we're following that very closely. U.S. forces massed there, the threat of going into the holiest Shia city is just a potential for absolute disaster. Hopefully, that will not happen.

And in between, we're trying to get out as much as possible amid all these kidnapping threats and just sort of give our viewers an idea of what ordinary life is like as well.

QUIJANO: Well, Jane, we thank you, and we appreciate your work.

Well Iraq was topic No. 1...

ARRAF: Thank you.

QUIJANO: ...when President Bush held a rare news conference this week. I'm back on that story after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't plan on losing my job. I plan on telling the American people that I've got a plan to win the war on terror. And I believe they'll stay with me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: "I don't plan on losing my job," says President Bush during his Tuesday evening news conference, during which he admitted it's gut-wrenching to see dead bodies in Iraq.

Welcome back. We are ON THE STORY. HINOJOSA: So, Elaine, this news conference that the president has held -- and everybody's kind of like, Oh, great, finally a chance for reporters. And maybe this is a little Inside Baseball for reporters.

But the news conference doesn't start until he gives 17 minutes of a presentation. What was the reaction from the reporters?

QUIJANO: Yes, well, I could tell you that leading up to this, we had been informed that there was going to be a statement, an opening set of remarks, if you will. And the first question, of course, was how long is that going to be? We were told at the time, in the morning -- this was around 9:15 -- it was going to be around 12 minutes long. The president was still finalizing his remarks throughout the course of the day.

And then in the end, it ended up being 17 minutes, as you said. And when asked why, the spokesperson for the -- spokesman for the White House, Scott McClellan said, Well, the president has a lot of information. There's a lot going on with Iraq. There has been a lot that has been said about the September 11 commission. And the president wants to update people on the situation in Iraq, specifically where things stand now and where things, as he sees it, are going to the future. So that was sort of the answer.

But, obviously, this is a political -- you know, it's a political issue. I mean, everything -- you have to view it through the prism of the election-year dynamics.

HAYS: That's what's so interesting about the reaction to this news conference. Because the idea was -- you get the feeling that President Bush feels like, Uh-oh, things are going poorly in Iraq. I have to show people that I'm in charge. We have a plan. I'm not losing it. We're moving ahead.

But the reaction the next day to me was very partisan. If you were a Democrat, he blew it. He didn't know what he was saying. He sounded insecure. He stumbled. If you were a Republican, he stated the case. He said why we're there. We're taking it to the terrorists.

How do they feel inside the White House about how he performed and if he really got the impact they wanted?

QUIJANO: Well certainly, this was an attempt to reach out and sort of energize the conservative base for the president. And, as you said, you know, Democrats saying, Well, the president, he didn't admit to any mistakes. You know, that was a big issue over and over again. We heard the reporters ask what would be the biggest mistake? What are some of the things that you wish you could have done differently?

Didn't make that admission, and it was interesting, at one point, if you remember, during the news conference, someone joked and said, Well, you had been quoted as saying that your biggest mistake was trading away Sammy Sosa. What was would be your biggest mistake now? And he couldn't come up with an answer and said that he didn't have an answer ready. And so that was the moment where you really kind of felt that tension, the knowledge that all these eyes were on the president for some sort of answer that would appease his conservative base and at the same time really present him as the -- at the forefront, sort of ahead of John Kerry and put him out there as really the candidate.

It's hard to say. I think there's a mixed reaction about whether or not he actually accomplished what he set out to accomplish.

STARR: And not only did he -- was he unable to really come up with what mistake had he made, but he didn't do something else that everybody was waiting for, and that was the 9/11 apology.

QUIJANO: Right. Absolutely.

STARR: Why not?

QUIJANO: Yes, you know, and there had been a lot of talk about that. In fact, in the days leading up to his national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice testifying, the Thursday before he gave that speech, a lot had been made about that, because remember that dramatic moment, Richard Clarke turns around and tells the families, I'm sorry and that he failed them. And that was a moment that a lot of the family members -- I talked to a couple family members. They wished they would have seen something like that, or they had wanted to see some sort of acceptance of responsibility. And in the end, what did the president do? He came out and said, Well, Osama bin Laden is the person responsible for the attacks.

HAYS: Is this part of the political strategy? That if we...

QUIJANO: It is.

HAYS: If he apologizes, it's like saying, I've done something wrong.

QUIJANO: Absolutely.

HAYS: And you could lead into saying maybe I shouldn't have gone to war into Iraq (ph), because he was also asked about, hey, there's no WMDs, Mr. President.

It just seems to me like it's part of the re-election campaign. You can say you're sorry; you can say what a great job I did; you can share pain, but you cannot admit any culpability.

(CROSSTALK)

HINOJOSA: You know, the other thing that I found interesting was the issue of the question about Vietnam. Because on the street -- I mean, I have never heard so many people just in the past two weeks saying this feels like Vietnam. And his answer was kind of like, don't even go there. And it's bad for the soldiers to even hear that.

And it's like, well, yes, but this is what people are talking about. So... QUIJANO: Right. I think the administration's point is that you have a different set of circumstances now. And also, they would say, understanding that they see Iraq -- or at least what they have tried to tell the American people, is that they see Iraq as part of the global war on terror, a different set of circumstances which exists now, which did not exist at that time.

You know, this is a strategic area. The president has said over and over again, if democracy flourishes in Iraq, it will be an example, as he says, to other countries in that region, and therefore provide greater stability. And that is really sort of the difference the Bush administration has sort of tried to distance itself. As you point out, you know, certainly, there are comparisons to be made and people will continue to make them. But they would argue that because of all those reasons, it's not the same as Vietnam.

HAYS: What about the Middle East? What about the new plan put forward and President Bush...

QUIJANO: Controversial.

HAYS: ...endorsing Sharon's plan to give back -- I get confused.

QUIJANO: Parts of the Gaza strip.

HAYS: Thank you. But keeping some big settlements. And Palestinians saying, No way.

QUIJANO: Absolutely.

Well, I think the quote by one of the Palestinian negotiators was that it's sort of like -- it's sort of like Great Britain and Canada telling China go ahead and take Crawford, Texas. It doesn't make any sense from their perspective.

Now what the Bush administration has said was, Look, this is a prime opportunity. When else are you going to have the Israeli government, the prime minister say, We will withdraw our troops. We will withdraw our settlements from these areas in the Gaza strip. And so they are trying to spin it, as well as Tony Blair, by the way -- British prime minister who was at the white house yesterday, sort of spin it to say this is an opportunity that needs to be viewed as an opportunity, not as something that is a loss for Palestinians.

But, of course, on two big issues, the right of return for Palestinian refugees -- that is something that the Palestinians are quite upset about. But the Bush administration has maintained, Look, we still want this road map to peace, where we see an Israeli state and a Palestinian state co-existing peacefully, side by side. We think this is a way to get there.

HINOJOSA: So what's -- what's the mood? I mean, you've been there. But what's the mood?

QUIJANO: I think they're very anxious at this point to try and do everything they can to change the public perceptions out there, notably with the September 11 commission, for instance. The families had, for some time, as you know, been pushing for Condoleezza Rice to testify. There had been that debate that had gone on. Will she or won't she? Will the White House allow her to go on and testify? And the Bush administration had cited, Well, you know we have these concerns about executive privilege. And finally they acquiesced.

And we're seeing now, also, on things like Iraq, they're asking for greater -- they're looking for greater participation by the United Nations. So they're kind of changing, they're shifting a little bit on their strategy, but at the same time sort of sticking to their core principle. We heard that at the news conference over and over again, like the June 30 deadline is going to stick. We heard no mention of any mistakes, no admission of any kind of responsibility.

HAYS: And you know what's really interesting are some of the things we didn't hear about at this news conference. Not a word about the economy, in fact, a subject near and dear to so many of us in this election year.

I'm back on that story in just a moment.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: Kathleen Hays is a business correspondent for CNN. She hosts "THE FLIP SIDE" on CNnfn, 11:00 a.m. to 12:30 p.m. She has a bachelor and master's degree in economics from Stanford University.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(AUDIO/VIDEO GAP)

HAYS: ...strong is the expansion? How far is going to keep us?

Wall Street has been reacting as though it believes that there's some real strength in the numbers, because interest rates have already been rising in the bond market. The stock market a couple days last week sold off because they saw that. They're thinking the economy is strong enough the federal reserve is going to start worrying about inflation and raising interest rates.

And again, another stronger-than-expected number last week was the consumer price index; it up a lot more than people thought. But a lot of economists step back and say, Hey, you get a couple of good numbers, that's good news. But you need to see this sustained month after month.

We saw jobless claims spike back up again this week. Now, there's a lot of weekly volatility in the numbers. But you still -- and when things are turning you get a lot of volatility. But I think there's just enough mixed news, consumer sentiment pulling back, industrial production down, that people are saying, you know, don't get too excited here. Yes, we're turning the corner, but we're not roaring yet. HINOJOSA: So what people really want to know is -- mortgage rates. I mean, there's a lot of talk that they could start creeping up, and certainly those of us of this generation don't remember when there were 18 percent mortgage rates. But now they're pretty low. Is there a sense they are going to start creeping and how high?

HAYS: Well, you know, they have already started creeping up higher. Because they were down, you know, just a month or so ago, 5.5 percent on a 30-year fixed mortgage. That's a -- that's a delightfully low mortgage rate. They got as low as 5.2, June of last year. Now we're up to 5.9. The view is we get up to 6.5 percent this year, maybe 7 next year. Now if things get really strong -- strong the way Bush would like to see, strong the for the fed to star raising interest rates, you could see that move up faster and more abruptly.

And -- you know, but it's like every dark cloud has a silver lining. Home prices are also rising. If we see mortgage rates rising and that cuts demand down a little bit because people say, Oh, my monthly payment's too high. You know, a lot of people in the neighborhood are going to say, Great, home prices are slowed down. Maybe I can jump in and get that house.

The housing market is so, so strong right now, that I think a lot of people think, because of the demographics, the baby boomers' kids, immigrants coming to this country, that even with higher interest rates, you're going to see a strong housing market, strong home sales. It's a real pillar of the economy right now, if I could use an overused pun.

STARR: There's another indicator out there that might be looming trouble. Still, gasoline prices.

HAYS: That's -t hat's something to watch, isn't it? Because people say rising gas prices are like a tax. They're like a tax you can't avoid because you have to pay them. And I think that's another reason why we shouldn't get too worried yet about inflation or too worried about interest rates rising a lot.

Because -- look at this. Prices are rising, right? Gas prices are rising. If you have to pay more to fill your tank, for most people -- you know, they don't have an extra piggy bank where they can pull money and pay more for spring clothing. They're going to pay less for something else. They're going to go out to eat less, they're going to take a less expensive vacation. They're going to cut back because gas prices are going to cut into the household budget. And that is something that naturally, you know, over time kind of slow this thing down a bit and prevent a really big rise in inflation that some people are worried about.

STARR: So are there any indicators out there that President Bush should be the most worried about that may be a problem for him?

HAYS: I sill think there's one indicator, and it's jobs, Barbara. If the jobs numbers don't keep rising, then that's going to be an issue. And, you know, we've seen outsourcing -- such a big debate. Such a big debate. And maybe we're only talking about 250,000 jobs outsourced. But if your economy isn't creating jobs, when you see that a company like White Pro (ph) or Infosystenologies (ph) has decided to send another 10,000 jobs overseas next year, you're seeing that's a big chunk. If the economy is creating only 100,000 jobs here each month, 10,000 jobs overseas is 10 percent of that. So that's why the jobs growth is so crucial. If it picks up, I think the president is -- as much as he's still got the worries about Iraq, he's definitely got something that's going to be helpful come November.

STARR: Well, a reminder of another place to find Kathleen's thoughts about business and the economy. Her frequent columns, "The Hays Wire." It can be found online at money@cnn.com/commentary.

And we're moving from money to defense on Iraq. I'm back on that story in a moment.

But first, a check on what's making headlines this hour.

CALLAWAY: Hello, everyone. I'm Catherine Callaway with the headlines.

A senior coalition official in Iraq says that the latest American hostage appears to be in good health, and the official says there's no sign Army PFC Keith Matthew Maupin has been tortured or even roughed up. A videotape shows him surrounded by masked gunmen. His abductors say they want to trade him for prisoners held by U.S. forces.

And a hopeful sign on this second day for a comprehensive cease- fire in the Iraqi city of Fallujah. Insurgents there agreed to reopen a bridge to the main hospital. Coalition negotiators want the city returned to local Iraqi control, and they want foreign fighters to get out.

And President Bush is urging congress this morning to renew the Patriot Act, set to expire next year. Mr. Bush makes his appeal in his weekly radio address.

The Patriot Act was passed after September 11, 2001. It gives law enforcement officers broad powers.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

BUSH: To abandon the Patriot Act would deprive law enforcement and intelligence officers of needed tools in the war on terror and demonstrate willful blindness to a continuing threat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CALLAWAY: Senator John Kerry voted for the Patriot Act but has since expressed concern the Bush administration might abuse it.

At least four border police are injured after an explosion at a crossing between Israel and Gaza. Israeli military officials say the blast appears to be the result of a suicide bomber. We will have a live report coming up for you in just a few minutes.

Those are the top stories. I'm Catherine Callaway, and ON THE STORY will be back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYS: We're following up now on a breaking news story this morning. A suicide bomber at the Israel-Gaza border, wounding four -- wounding four border police.

We are going to get the latest, the special coverage, in fact, from Paula Hancocks, who is in Jerusalem -- Paula.

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kathleen, the latest we know is that Israeli security sources saying to us it is a suicide bombing. Four wounded, four border police wounded, one of them critically.

A suicide bomber detonated his explosives just near the Erez crossing, which is the main crossing between Israel and Gaza. Now it's thought it was actually inside the Erez industrial zone, which is where around 6,000 Palestinians go to work, and there's around 200 factories within that area. Israeli security sources telling us that he was in that area at the time, which is significant, because there is very high security around that industrial zone. And, in fact, around the crossing itself, the main crossing between Israel and Gaza. Around 20,000 Palestinians will use that crossing every day to get through to Israel to higher-paying jobs.

Now, this is also the same area that a suicide bomber, a woman suicide bomber, a mother of two, killed four Israeli guards when she detonated her explosives back in January. Now, the crossing and the area was closed off for a few days just after that. We have a kind of responsibility, Hamas and Al-Aqsa Martyrs brigade, the group affiliated with Yasser Arafat's Fatah movement, have claimed responsibility for this attack.

So the latest, we have four security guards, four members of the Israeli army have been wounded, one critically. We have a reaction as well from the prime minister's office, from Ariel Sharon's office. He says, this bombing -- quote -- "Proves, one, that Israel has no partner. Two, that Israel is compelled to take unilateral steps. And, three, Palestinians continue to do nothing to fight terror."

QUIJANO: Paula, any...

HANCOCKS: This suicide bombing (UNINTELLIGIBLE), of course, coming just a few days after Bush and Sharon did meet back on Wednesday, Kathleen.

HINOJOSA: Is there a sense, then, that's the reason why it happened, because of this -- of these discussions, these recent discussions, Paula?

HANCOCKS: It's possible, but it's really quite impossible to know. These suicide bombings happen fairly frequently over here, the last one happening in the middle of March.

But there weren't here was a lot of anger amongst the Palestinians after George Bush did endorse the disengagement plan from Gaza that Ariel Sharon presented to him last Wednesday. There was a tremendous amount of anger, especially because George Bush said that there shouldn't be a right of return for Palestinian refugees. Now, that's refugees that either fled or were forced to leave their homes back in 1948 in the Arab-Israeli war. They want to go back to their land. But George Bush agreeing with Sharon they shouldn't be able to -- Kathleen.

HAYS: Paula Hancocks, thank you for updating us in that live report from Jerusalem. And, of course, we'll be following the story throughout the day on CNN.

Now we're going to get back to the latest on Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I certainly would not have estimated that we would have had the number of individuals lost that we have had lost in the last week.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld saying on Thursday, he had been -- if he had been predicting the future, he would have been wrong about the deadly violence still confronting U.S. troops in Iraq more than a year after the war began.

Welcome back. We are ON THE STORY.

HAYS: You know, Barbara, in a couple of weeks, where everybody's talking about almost demanding apologies, demanding people to say what was your biggest mistake? That sounds awfully close to Don Rumsfeld, almost uncharacteristically saying, I got something wrong.

STARR: I think most of us in the briefing room, when he said that, were absolutely slack-jawed.

This man, for the last three and a half years is one of the most adamant spokesmen for the administration. Nothing is ever really wrong. He is always on plan. He is always on schedule. He is always on target. In Don Rumsfeld's world, things don't go wrong.

An astounding window -- just a slice -- into what he may really be thinking, into the question of policy vulnerability. It was just a little window that he let open for just a minute.

HINOJOSA: Why do you think he did that, though? I mean, what's -- if he's been so strong and firm, what's happening now?

STARR: I think you have to take him at face value at this point. There's not much else you can do with it.

He is really surprised about this. Now, of course -- about the number of casualties. In the last two weeks, we're now over 90 U.S. military fatalities in Iraq, not the kind of thing that's been seen for years by the U.S. military. The question that's not adding up at the moment, though, is we have kept hearing -- the U.S. population has kept hearing from the administration, we expected, they say, violence in that run-up to the June 30 transition date. We knew factions were going to vie for power. We knew there would be problems.

So if they saw all of that and they knew that was coming, why is Don Rumsfeld so surprised?

QUIJANO: Yes, because it doesn't seem to square away. I mean, on the one hand, that has been the Bush administration stance. And, in fact, you know, President Bush a couple weeks ago said, this June 30 deadline is something we're going to stick to, but it also is a convenient excuse for the insurgents to attack. And yet you have his secretary of defense coming out with a statement like this.

It really seems as though there's some discord, obviously.

STARR: It's an administration, as all of us know, that is always on message. And this was just a tiny step to the side.

And, you know, it should be said that we all say, This Don Rumsfeld you see on TV is the Don Rumsfeld that is the real Don Rumsfeld. But he's not a cartoon character. This is a very real person. Things should be understood about him. There are many days that no one knows about where he drives up -- he's taken up to Walter Reed Army Hospital here in Washington. He has visited the wounded many, many times in the hospital. He does not allow any publicity of those trips. It is known that he does it.

He does feel very deeply about the soldiers and about the wounded, but yet a very adamant proponent of administration policy.

HAYS: But, you know, there's so many questions here -- the question of the troops coming home. You're telling us how deeply Don Rumsfeld feels about this. And one of the interesting backdrops to me right now, this whole debate about Iraq, and even some Republicans wondering why we're there. And with -- was the Pentagon was involved (ph), and there's this idea that they were the neoconservatives who helped lead us down that road.

I would have -- I've always considered Don Rumsfeld one of the people who was pretty gung-ho on this, who thought we should do this and had to do this.

STARR: Oh, I think there's no question. He is just completely a proponent of administration policy.

What's going to be fascinating is, when the news is over and history's written years from now, to look back, I think, at what we don't know right now. What are the joint chiefs really saying? What did John Abizaid say when he laid down that marker a few weeks ago? I am going to ask for more troops. It was very clear, he laid down that marker before the decision was made to do it. We don't know what's really yet fully happening behind the scenes, the difference between news and history, if you will. But clearly, a lot of back and forth here.

HINOJOSA: You know what's interesting to me is, there was a news report I believe on CNN, where they were talking about how they're going to extend these troops, and you had families on one of the military bases who were so upset about this, that the wives started collecting signatures for a petition to say, "We want our men back." These are people who say we support this effort, and yet right now, they're saying we've had enough.

I mean, to me, that's fascinating.

STARR: It is. I mean -- I don't know. Is that an anti-war movement within the military? It's -- you know, it's hard to say. But they never -- the troops clearly never expected to be gone that long.

At the highest levels of the army, a lot of work going on to try and smooth the waters on this because they know. They know the troops are going to be very unhappy about staying. But another -- you know, we -- you talk about indicators all the time. Another fascinating indicator this week. No indication yet that recruiting for new troops and retention is going to be a problem. People are still signing up to join the military.

HAYS: We're lucky we have people like that, aren't we?

HINOJOSA: Thanks, Barbara.

Well, from the war in Iraq to the war in one family, a family that abortion protester Randall Terry had portrayed as a perfect Christian-American dream. I'm back on that story after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RANDALL TERRY, ANTI-ABORTION ACTIVIST: I have been a very high profile public figure in the fight against abortion and in the fight against homosexual marriage.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HINOJOSA: Long-time activist Randall Terry, who finds his family under siege by some of the very things that he has so vehemently opposed, including homosexuality. His son this very week came out publicly saying he is gay. His daughters say that they have split with their father over the rejection of their out-of-wedlock pregnancies.

Welcome back. We're ON THE STORY.

QUIJANO: Maria, talk to us about who he is, who the real Randall Terry is. Because you say you spent some time on the phone with him. You know, there's one thing with a public image, a public persona. Obviously, as an activist, there's a certain image he's cultivating in the public.

But for you, what was your sort of impression of him?

HINOJOSA: Well, look, most people -- I mean, Journalists usually know. You say Randall Terry and they remember.

Randall Terry is the founder of operation rescue. He is one of the most high-profile activisits. Pretty much the intellectual author of these blocking abortion clinics even from opening. Then was by courts told you can't get near abortion clinics, you can't block their doors anymore. And then he sort of moved on to become a huge proponent against gays, against homosexuality, against divorce, against unwed mothers. And then all of this kind of unravels with his son coming out and saying, Dad, I'm gay.

HAYS: So, you know, this is -- I mean, everything gay is big right now, if I could be a little bit light-hearted about this. And we have so many issues about homosexuality, gay marriage, Out magazine has been out for a long time.

Why does this young man decide now is the time? Is it a coming- of-age kind of thing? Is he angry at his father? Is he...

HINOJOSA: You know what? The father, Randall Terry, says you're just doing this because you want to hurt me. The son, who is 24 years old and really smart, extremely well spoken, said, Look, I wanted people to know that if I, the son of a Christian, anti-abortion, anti- gay activist can come out and say I'm gay, then you all who think you have problems, you can do it too.

The other point is that this kid, Jamil, who you see right there, wants to run for office one day. I mean, he's his father's son. He's very political. He wants to -- he's one day going to run for office. And he says, you know what? Being gay is not -- doesn't necessarily mean you won't be able to run for office. So he pretty much wants to take this on.

STARR: Where does this all now put Randall Terry in the anti- abortion movement?

HINOJOSA: Well, Randall Terry started having some problems because of the fact that, again, he was holding himself and this whole family up as being this perfect Christian family. Well, about three or four years ago, Randall Terry gets censored by his own church for having -- quote-unquote -- "sinful relationships" with other women.

Then it turns out he divorced his wife of many, many years and marries his church assistant, who's like 23 years old. And kind of the kids are saying, Wait, dad, you know, you were holding us up as this perfect family. We wanted to be that, but then you turn out doing the exact thing that you said we should never do. People should never get divorced and you do this.

So there's a lot of internal, kind of -- the family is falling apart because this image just isn't there.

HAYS: But what's so interesting -- and I think it is like a morality play of the American family, right? American families, you've got the one -- you know, the picture postcard image, and then underneath you have everything that's really going on.

But you also found in your reporting that the kids still love dad and they're still anti-abortion activists themselves.

HINOJOSA: They are. They still love their dad. It's weird.

Now these are three kids who are, biracial kids, who were adopted by Randall Terry, raised by him pretty much after they were like 5, 6, 7 years old. They continue to say that they support their father's right to speak out against abortion, to speak out against homosexuality. They kind of wish that he would tone it down, but I spoke to Randall Terry, and he said no. To me, this is a sin. I will never stop talking about this.

And it's, like, you know, you're preaching -- many people believe you're preaching hate against gays. You have a gay son. And at the same time, this father said to his son, the day before we interviewed him, you know what? You're going to be dead by the time you turn 42. The fact that a father can say this to his own son is extraordinary.

Two of the daughters both had pregnancies out of wedlock. One of them, who's 18 years old, second pregnancy right now. Father doesn't want them in the home. He feels very distraught. Father does not want the son in the home. So it's really just a fascinating story.

You know, they say, if you want to live in a glass house, you can't throw stones. And Randall Terry certainly threw a lot of stones.

HAYS: I'd say he's got a little PR rescue work to do right now.

Well, from Randall Terry to taxes and tanning. ON THE STORY continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUIJANO: And welcome back. We are ON THE STORY.

I guess the big question now -- we are coming out of tax day. So did everybody file on time?

HAYS: Of course not. I thought that's what extensions were for.

HINOJOSA: Extension, extension, extension.

QUIJANO: You're not supposed to say that.

HAYS: It's a well-known story about Kathleen Hays that I think that's what it's all -- that's why the government gives us extensions.

HINOJOSA: I haven't filed on time in who knows how long. But those extensions -- April 15, just one signature, boom, you're done.

STARR: Do you know I got my refund back already?

HAYS: Of course. That's why she covers the Pentagon.

But, you know, it's interesting because it's such a stress-filled time for so many people. And my -- I have an excuse. I was on vacation at the end of March. I was taking my time.

HINOJOSA: Right, but you were trying to get a tan from the sun.

HAYS: I was in the Dominican Republic for a week, and I thought tanning was sort of passe -- you get skin cancer, not supposed to do it too much. When I came back, everyone is, Oh my God, you look so great. And went, I got to think more about this tan thing.

Self-tanning has become the latest thing -- the latest wrinkle that doesn't wrinkle you. And we can see some pictures of it now. You -- they just spray it on, four hours later, it sets in, and you're tan for a week.

HIINOJOSA: But here's what you didn't tell us in the story. How much does that cost?

HAYS: It costs about 50 bucks. In some places, little bit less; in some places, a little bit more. I think the price is probably dropping because there's more salons opening up. So the price is really dropping.

QUIJANO: Maria, you're busy this week. You've got a special award Monday, right?

HINOJOSA: Yes. Wonderful award. It's the Feminist Press Crossing Borders Award. It will be Monday night at the Essex in New York. And basically, just saying, Hey, you're doing a great job. And I'm like, thank you so much. So that's coming from the Feminist Press on Monday night, yes.

HAYS: Well, we knew she was doing a great job already.

But there's more. You are doing this afternoon -- well, I am going to go home and try to finish my taxes. You're going to be doing something really fun.

HINOJOSA: You know what? I just think that you have to find ways to relieve stress that are fun. And I'm a mom of two kids. So I get together with a bunch of moms from my kids' school. And this afternoon at Morningside Park -- if anybody wants to come, you're welcome, you're absolutely welcome -- 2:00, we're going to be jumping double dutch -- double dutch for a couple of hours. It will be really fun.

HAYS: Doing the chants and everything.

(CROSSTALK)

HINOJOSA: Absolutely.

QUIJANO: Thanks, guys. We're back ON THE STORY after this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: Maureen Baginski was in the news this week. during the hearings of the commission investigating the terror attacks of September 11, 2001. What's her story? More after this.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: Maureen Baginksi was in the news this week. What's her story? She is the first executive assistant director for intelligence at the FBI. She sat beside FBI Director Robert Mueller at this week's hearings of the 9/11 commission. Hers was one of the few women's voices heard, in addition to former Attorney Janet Reno and commission member Jamie Gorelick.

JAMIE GORELICK, 9/11 COMMISSIONER: You are posited as a solution to many problems. Many times we've asked the question how is X going to get fixed, who is going to do Y. And often, very often, maybe too often for your comfort level, Mo Baginski is the answer.

ANNOUNCER: Before her FBI post, Baginksi led the National Security Agency's Signals Intelligence Directorate, the secret operation that eavesdrops on the world. She started at the NSA in 1979 as a Russian intelligence instructor.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STARR: Thanks to my colleagues and thank you for watching ON THE STORY. We'll be back next week.

Coming up right now, a check of the top stories.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired April 17, 2004 - 10:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Catherine Callaway, and here are the headlines.
At least four people are injured after an explosion at a crossing between Israel and Gaza. Israeli military officials say the blast appears to be the result of a suicide bomber.

And two kidnapped Japanese citizens were freed by their captors this morning in Baghdad. Officials say the two were released at the Japanese embassy. Three others Japanese civilians were released on Thursday.

Iraqi insurgents who are holding U.S. soldier Matt Maupin say that they will trade him for prisoners held by the U.S. This according to a videotape which aired yesterday on the Arab-language network al-Jazeera, and which Maupin appears surrounded by armed men. Military officials say that he appears scared, but otherwise in good condition.

Police in Saudi Arabia defuse a potentially explosive situation when they find a car packed with explosives. Police found the car in east -- in eastern Riyadh. They say that they had been looking for the vehicle for about two months, as part of an ongoing investigation.

And back in the U.S., a professional hockey player has been charged with arranging the murder of his male lover. Mike Danton of the St. Louis Blues faces federal charges in the case. He's suspected of setting up the plot because he was afraid the man might leave him and ruin his hockey career.

Those are the top stories. I'm Catherine Callaway, and ON THE STORY begins right now.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to CNN's ON THE STORY, where our journalists have the inside word on the stories we covered this week.

I'm Elaine Quijano, ON THE STORY of President Bush going before the cameras this week to spell out his "no regrets, full speed ahead" message on Iraq.

JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: I'm Jane Arraf in Baghdad, ON THE STORY of fighting in Iraq, concern over a wave of hostagetakings, and the reaction of troops, who after a year in theater, won't be going home quite yet.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: I'm Barbara Starr ON THE STORY of how the Pentagon brass used the attacks in Iraq and the debate over how many troops are enough.

MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN URBAN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: I'm Maria Hinojosa, ON THE STORY of Randall Terry, a pioneer in the anti- abortion movement, who is in a bitter fight with his gay son and two daughters.

KATHLEEN HAYS, CNNfn CORRESPONDENT: And I'm Kathleen Hays ON THE STORY of how we're spending money as consumers, but worried as investors.

We'll also talk about how President Bush is reacting to the 9/11 commission.

We'll talk about how we paid our taxes this week and may get back less money than we thought.

And get the summer tan without the burn. Just spray it on.

E-mail us at onthestory@cnn.com.

Now, straight ahead to Jane Arraf and homecoming delayed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I called (ph) him one day, and I was like, Hey, I don't think I'm going to make it home. Things are looking crazy here in Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: Jane, it looks like the soldiers are really settling in for a longer haul than they expected. Fallujah still a center of a lot of fighting this weekend?

ARRAF: It's kind of tense there. Not so much because there's constant fighting, but because there's the threat of a potential disaster, even more fighting.

Now there are talks that have been going on with a very senior coalition official, and this is the first time that's happened. The problem is they say they're not quite sure whether they're negotiating with the right people. And we have to understand that Fallujah -- which officials keep telling us is different. Fallujah is different. It's a special case. This is a place that seems to have attracted insurgents, foreign fighters, almost everyone, a wide variety of groups. Really, people who really feel a passion for what they're doing, Saddam regime loyalists, a lot of different reasons there.

And it's a very, very difficult problem. It is very complicated in Iraq right now.

QUIJANO: Jane, talking about security. I'm curious about maybe some of the conversations that have taken place with your colleagues because of the situation now. We're seeing different tactics in the kidnappings, people snatched -- not just out on the streets, but actually taken from offices, from what I understand. That happened with the Russians.

What has been the sort of discussion among you and your colleagues about going out to try to cover some of the events in Iraq?

ARRAF: I think people are much more careful now, and not just much more careful.

I just came from the power plant on the edge of town, in Dora. We think very carefully before going out, but obviously, we do have to go out. And in that power plant, fascinating example. This was staffed by Russians, Americans, other foreign workers, as well as a lot of Iraqis. Now most of the Russians have stayed. They say they're used to this. They made a commitment. They're going to stay and do this job, and they're making a lot more money than they would at home.

The other foreign workers have left, and when we went there, there were a lot of Iraqi technicians, a lot of Iraqi maintenance engineers, standing around saying, We don't know if they're coming back. We don't know if they'll get paid. A lot of uncertainty around, not just from journalists.

But as for what we do, we're just -- we try to be careful all the time, obviously. But now we think about every trip we make, whether we really need to make that trip, and who actually needs to make it.

HAYS: Jane, on this question of -- this seems to be a problem that's been centered to a great deal in Fallujah. Still, there are many attacks all over the country, and the convoys are so vulnerable now, trying to move supplies up across the country.

Is it really accurate to say that's in -- is it because it's mostly in Fallujah? Because it seems there's a lot of cities. We're reading in the news now where various kinds of things are happening.

ARRAF: You're absolutely right. And I always try to guard against the perception that this whole country is going up in violence and is in flames because that's what we see on the news because that's what's new.

But right now, if you took a look at a map of Iraq, you would see little pinpoints, flare-ups all over the place, and it's kind of phenomenal. Apart from the north, which is relatively stable, the coalition has just announced the closings of two more major highways. And that was an excellent point you made. How does stuff get through? I mean, pretty soon, if they block other highways, food prices will go up. There will be massive disruptions. This hasn't happened yet.

But there's that threat in Fallujah. There's the threat in the holy city of Najaf, another fascinating example. And in between there, in places we never expected it, fighting is flaring up. It's still under control, but it is worrying. HINOJOSA: Jane, I'm wondering, here in the United States, everybody is fixated on these pictures that we're seeing of one American soldier who was taken hostage. Have the Iraqis seen that photograph, and what's their reaction? And also, what are people in Iraq saying about the hostagetaking? Are they saying it's a good tactic or it's setting things back?

ARRAF: They're generally saying it is not a good tactic.

Now, when it comes to hostagetakings or anything else, I think a lot of Iraqis, most Iraqis would draw a difference between taking action against even attacking, in some cases, soldiers, who many people here feel are occupying the country -- not all, but that is a sentiment and a significant part of the population. -- and civilians. I haven't met many people who would support taking civilians hostage or attacking them or doing anything to them. Soldiers are a different case.

But, you know, the really interesting thing is we haven't seen the suicide bombs that we used to cover on almost a daily basis. The target really has shifted to foreigners, maximum impact to grab them, put out some demands -- from the attacks we were seeing, which were these big spectacular suicide bombs against Iraqi targets.

HINOJOSA: But have you seen that photograph of the soldier? Are people in Iraq seeing the photograph of the American soldier who is being held hostage, or they're not be seeing that image at all?

ARRAF: No, they are seeing that image. It was played on al- Jazeera, and people do watch al-Jazeera and other Arab channels, quite widely.

Now, the thing about that image is, I guess if you watch Arab television networks, particularly -- I hate to jump on this coalition bandwagon, but you do see a lot of really kind of bad stuff. Compared to that, this was someone who coalition officials say did not appear to -- appeared to be in good health, had no indications that he had been tortured. He kind of looked all right. And it was not terribly alarming to most people here.

Many people hope that he will be freed. People here are really empathetic. We have to remember that. They're -- you know, they're human. They have families, and they feel for the soldier's family. But it is a very delicate, complicated situation here. That balance between a U.S. occupation and a lot of people who are chafing under it.

STARR: Jane, do we have any idea why so many of these hostages that were taken over the last week or so now have been freed? Is there any indication what is getting them out of these terrible circumstances?

ARRAF: That's a really interesting thing, isn't it? I've spoken to some of the hostages. One of them was a journalist who said that after he was able to prove that he was indeed a journalist and not a soldier, not a spy, they released him. And -- fascinating. He said they were clearly Baath Party people. They referred to President Saddam Hussein. And they wanted to come out. They wanted him to come out and get their message across. That appears to be the more sophisticated hostagetakers.

Now, other ones have made specific demands. We've seen in the case of the Japanese, demands that the Japanese withdraw. The Japanese did not withdraw, but those hostages were released. It really seems to be a difference between whether they're security or soldiers or whether they're aid workers or journalists, who seem to get better treated and more quickly released.

QUIJANO: Jane Arraf, thanks for joining us. Tell us what is ON THE STORY for you in the coming week?

ARRAF: We are glued to the negotiations. The U.S. doesn't like to call them negotiations; they like to call them discussions. Whatever they are -- in Fallujah.

Really hard to get across how important this is. This entire country is incensed about what is happening in Fallujah, even people who are normally pro-coalition. And they have to find a solution there.

They have to find a solution in Najaf as well. And we're following that very closely. U.S. forces massed there, the threat of going into the holiest Shia city is just a potential for absolute disaster. Hopefully, that will not happen.

And in between, we're trying to get out as much as possible amid all these kidnapping threats and just sort of give our viewers an idea of what ordinary life is like as well.

QUIJANO: Well, Jane, we thank you, and we appreciate your work.

Well Iraq was topic No. 1...

ARRAF: Thank you.

QUIJANO: ...when President Bush held a rare news conference this week. I'm back on that story after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't plan on losing my job. I plan on telling the American people that I've got a plan to win the war on terror. And I believe they'll stay with me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: "I don't plan on losing my job," says President Bush during his Tuesday evening news conference, during which he admitted it's gut-wrenching to see dead bodies in Iraq.

Welcome back. We are ON THE STORY. HINOJOSA: So, Elaine, this news conference that the president has held -- and everybody's kind of like, Oh, great, finally a chance for reporters. And maybe this is a little Inside Baseball for reporters.

But the news conference doesn't start until he gives 17 minutes of a presentation. What was the reaction from the reporters?

QUIJANO: Yes, well, I could tell you that leading up to this, we had been informed that there was going to be a statement, an opening set of remarks, if you will. And the first question, of course, was how long is that going to be? We were told at the time, in the morning -- this was around 9:15 -- it was going to be around 12 minutes long. The president was still finalizing his remarks throughout the course of the day.

And then in the end, it ended up being 17 minutes, as you said. And when asked why, the spokesperson for the -- spokesman for the White House, Scott McClellan said, Well, the president has a lot of information. There's a lot going on with Iraq. There has been a lot that has been said about the September 11 commission. And the president wants to update people on the situation in Iraq, specifically where things stand now and where things, as he sees it, are going to the future. So that was sort of the answer.

But, obviously, this is a political -- you know, it's a political issue. I mean, everything -- you have to view it through the prism of the election-year dynamics.

HAYS: That's what's so interesting about the reaction to this news conference. Because the idea was -- you get the feeling that President Bush feels like, Uh-oh, things are going poorly in Iraq. I have to show people that I'm in charge. We have a plan. I'm not losing it. We're moving ahead.

But the reaction the next day to me was very partisan. If you were a Democrat, he blew it. He didn't know what he was saying. He sounded insecure. He stumbled. If you were a Republican, he stated the case. He said why we're there. We're taking it to the terrorists.

How do they feel inside the White House about how he performed and if he really got the impact they wanted?

QUIJANO: Well certainly, this was an attempt to reach out and sort of energize the conservative base for the president. And, as you said, you know, Democrats saying, Well, the president, he didn't admit to any mistakes. You know, that was a big issue over and over again. We heard the reporters ask what would be the biggest mistake? What are some of the things that you wish you could have done differently?

Didn't make that admission, and it was interesting, at one point, if you remember, during the news conference, someone joked and said, Well, you had been quoted as saying that your biggest mistake was trading away Sammy Sosa. What was would be your biggest mistake now? And he couldn't come up with an answer and said that he didn't have an answer ready. And so that was the moment where you really kind of felt that tension, the knowledge that all these eyes were on the president for some sort of answer that would appease his conservative base and at the same time really present him as the -- at the forefront, sort of ahead of John Kerry and put him out there as really the candidate.

It's hard to say. I think there's a mixed reaction about whether or not he actually accomplished what he set out to accomplish.

STARR: And not only did he -- was he unable to really come up with what mistake had he made, but he didn't do something else that everybody was waiting for, and that was the 9/11 apology.

QUIJANO: Right. Absolutely.

STARR: Why not?

QUIJANO: Yes, you know, and there had been a lot of talk about that. In fact, in the days leading up to his national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice testifying, the Thursday before he gave that speech, a lot had been made about that, because remember that dramatic moment, Richard Clarke turns around and tells the families, I'm sorry and that he failed them. And that was a moment that a lot of the family members -- I talked to a couple family members. They wished they would have seen something like that, or they had wanted to see some sort of acceptance of responsibility. And in the end, what did the president do? He came out and said, Well, Osama bin Laden is the person responsible for the attacks.

HAYS: Is this part of the political strategy? That if we...

QUIJANO: It is.

HAYS: If he apologizes, it's like saying, I've done something wrong.

QUIJANO: Absolutely.

HAYS: And you could lead into saying maybe I shouldn't have gone to war into Iraq (ph), because he was also asked about, hey, there's no WMDs, Mr. President.

It just seems to me like it's part of the re-election campaign. You can say you're sorry; you can say what a great job I did; you can share pain, but you cannot admit any culpability.

(CROSSTALK)

HINOJOSA: You know, the other thing that I found interesting was the issue of the question about Vietnam. Because on the street -- I mean, I have never heard so many people just in the past two weeks saying this feels like Vietnam. And his answer was kind of like, don't even go there. And it's bad for the soldiers to even hear that.

And it's like, well, yes, but this is what people are talking about. So... QUIJANO: Right. I think the administration's point is that you have a different set of circumstances now. And also, they would say, understanding that they see Iraq -- or at least what they have tried to tell the American people, is that they see Iraq as part of the global war on terror, a different set of circumstances which exists now, which did not exist at that time.

You know, this is a strategic area. The president has said over and over again, if democracy flourishes in Iraq, it will be an example, as he says, to other countries in that region, and therefore provide greater stability. And that is really sort of the difference the Bush administration has sort of tried to distance itself. As you point out, you know, certainly, there are comparisons to be made and people will continue to make them. But they would argue that because of all those reasons, it's not the same as Vietnam.

HAYS: What about the Middle East? What about the new plan put forward and President Bush...

QUIJANO: Controversial.

HAYS: ...endorsing Sharon's plan to give back -- I get confused.

QUIJANO: Parts of the Gaza strip.

HAYS: Thank you. But keeping some big settlements. And Palestinians saying, No way.

QUIJANO: Absolutely.

Well, I think the quote by one of the Palestinian negotiators was that it's sort of like -- it's sort of like Great Britain and Canada telling China go ahead and take Crawford, Texas. It doesn't make any sense from their perspective.

Now what the Bush administration has said was, Look, this is a prime opportunity. When else are you going to have the Israeli government, the prime minister say, We will withdraw our troops. We will withdraw our settlements from these areas in the Gaza strip. And so they are trying to spin it, as well as Tony Blair, by the way -- British prime minister who was at the white house yesterday, sort of spin it to say this is an opportunity that needs to be viewed as an opportunity, not as something that is a loss for Palestinians.

But, of course, on two big issues, the right of return for Palestinian refugees -- that is something that the Palestinians are quite upset about. But the Bush administration has maintained, Look, we still want this road map to peace, where we see an Israeli state and a Palestinian state co-existing peacefully, side by side. We think this is a way to get there.

HINOJOSA: So what's -- what's the mood? I mean, you've been there. But what's the mood?

QUIJANO: I think they're very anxious at this point to try and do everything they can to change the public perceptions out there, notably with the September 11 commission, for instance. The families had, for some time, as you know, been pushing for Condoleezza Rice to testify. There had been that debate that had gone on. Will she or won't she? Will the White House allow her to go on and testify? And the Bush administration had cited, Well, you know we have these concerns about executive privilege. And finally they acquiesced.

And we're seeing now, also, on things like Iraq, they're asking for greater -- they're looking for greater participation by the United Nations. So they're kind of changing, they're shifting a little bit on their strategy, but at the same time sort of sticking to their core principle. We heard that at the news conference over and over again, like the June 30 deadline is going to stick. We heard no mention of any mistakes, no admission of any kind of responsibility.

HAYS: And you know what's really interesting are some of the things we didn't hear about at this news conference. Not a word about the economy, in fact, a subject near and dear to so many of us in this election year.

I'm back on that story in just a moment.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: Kathleen Hays is a business correspondent for CNN. She hosts "THE FLIP SIDE" on CNnfn, 11:00 a.m. to 12:30 p.m. She has a bachelor and master's degree in economics from Stanford University.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(AUDIO/VIDEO GAP)

HAYS: ...strong is the expansion? How far is going to keep us?

Wall Street has been reacting as though it believes that there's some real strength in the numbers, because interest rates have already been rising in the bond market. The stock market a couple days last week sold off because they saw that. They're thinking the economy is strong enough the federal reserve is going to start worrying about inflation and raising interest rates.

And again, another stronger-than-expected number last week was the consumer price index; it up a lot more than people thought. But a lot of economists step back and say, Hey, you get a couple of good numbers, that's good news. But you need to see this sustained month after month.

We saw jobless claims spike back up again this week. Now, there's a lot of weekly volatility in the numbers. But you still -- and when things are turning you get a lot of volatility. But I think there's just enough mixed news, consumer sentiment pulling back, industrial production down, that people are saying, you know, don't get too excited here. Yes, we're turning the corner, but we're not roaring yet. HINOJOSA: So what people really want to know is -- mortgage rates. I mean, there's a lot of talk that they could start creeping up, and certainly those of us of this generation don't remember when there were 18 percent mortgage rates. But now they're pretty low. Is there a sense they are going to start creeping and how high?

HAYS: Well, you know, they have already started creeping up higher. Because they were down, you know, just a month or so ago, 5.5 percent on a 30-year fixed mortgage. That's a -- that's a delightfully low mortgage rate. They got as low as 5.2, June of last year. Now we're up to 5.9. The view is we get up to 6.5 percent this year, maybe 7 next year. Now if things get really strong -- strong the way Bush would like to see, strong the for the fed to star raising interest rates, you could see that move up faster and more abruptly.

And -- you know, but it's like every dark cloud has a silver lining. Home prices are also rising. If we see mortgage rates rising and that cuts demand down a little bit because people say, Oh, my monthly payment's too high. You know, a lot of people in the neighborhood are going to say, Great, home prices are slowed down. Maybe I can jump in and get that house.

The housing market is so, so strong right now, that I think a lot of people think, because of the demographics, the baby boomers' kids, immigrants coming to this country, that even with higher interest rates, you're going to see a strong housing market, strong home sales. It's a real pillar of the economy right now, if I could use an overused pun.

STARR: There's another indicator out there that might be looming trouble. Still, gasoline prices.

HAYS: That's -t hat's something to watch, isn't it? Because people say rising gas prices are like a tax. They're like a tax you can't avoid because you have to pay them. And I think that's another reason why we shouldn't get too worried yet about inflation or too worried about interest rates rising a lot.

Because -- look at this. Prices are rising, right? Gas prices are rising. If you have to pay more to fill your tank, for most people -- you know, they don't have an extra piggy bank where they can pull money and pay more for spring clothing. They're going to pay less for something else. They're going to go out to eat less, they're going to take a less expensive vacation. They're going to cut back because gas prices are going to cut into the household budget. And that is something that naturally, you know, over time kind of slow this thing down a bit and prevent a really big rise in inflation that some people are worried about.

STARR: So are there any indicators out there that President Bush should be the most worried about that may be a problem for him?

HAYS: I sill think there's one indicator, and it's jobs, Barbara. If the jobs numbers don't keep rising, then that's going to be an issue. And, you know, we've seen outsourcing -- such a big debate. Such a big debate. And maybe we're only talking about 250,000 jobs outsourced. But if your economy isn't creating jobs, when you see that a company like White Pro (ph) or Infosystenologies (ph) has decided to send another 10,000 jobs overseas next year, you're seeing that's a big chunk. If the economy is creating only 100,000 jobs here each month, 10,000 jobs overseas is 10 percent of that. So that's why the jobs growth is so crucial. If it picks up, I think the president is -- as much as he's still got the worries about Iraq, he's definitely got something that's going to be helpful come November.

STARR: Well, a reminder of another place to find Kathleen's thoughts about business and the economy. Her frequent columns, "The Hays Wire." It can be found online at money@cnn.com/commentary.

And we're moving from money to defense on Iraq. I'm back on that story in a moment.

But first, a check on what's making headlines this hour.

CALLAWAY: Hello, everyone. I'm Catherine Callaway with the headlines.

A senior coalition official in Iraq says that the latest American hostage appears to be in good health, and the official says there's no sign Army PFC Keith Matthew Maupin has been tortured or even roughed up. A videotape shows him surrounded by masked gunmen. His abductors say they want to trade him for prisoners held by U.S. forces.

And a hopeful sign on this second day for a comprehensive cease- fire in the Iraqi city of Fallujah. Insurgents there agreed to reopen a bridge to the main hospital. Coalition negotiators want the city returned to local Iraqi control, and they want foreign fighters to get out.

And President Bush is urging congress this morning to renew the Patriot Act, set to expire next year. Mr. Bush makes his appeal in his weekly radio address.

The Patriot Act was passed after September 11, 2001. It gives law enforcement officers broad powers.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

BUSH: To abandon the Patriot Act would deprive law enforcement and intelligence officers of needed tools in the war on terror and demonstrate willful blindness to a continuing threat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CALLAWAY: Senator John Kerry voted for the Patriot Act but has since expressed concern the Bush administration might abuse it.

At least four border police are injured after an explosion at a crossing between Israel and Gaza. Israeli military officials say the blast appears to be the result of a suicide bomber. We will have a live report coming up for you in just a few minutes.

Those are the top stories. I'm Catherine Callaway, and ON THE STORY will be back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HAYS: We're following up now on a breaking news story this morning. A suicide bomber at the Israel-Gaza border, wounding four -- wounding four border police.

We are going to get the latest, the special coverage, in fact, from Paula Hancocks, who is in Jerusalem -- Paula.

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kathleen, the latest we know is that Israeli security sources saying to us it is a suicide bombing. Four wounded, four border police wounded, one of them critically.

A suicide bomber detonated his explosives just near the Erez crossing, which is the main crossing between Israel and Gaza. Now it's thought it was actually inside the Erez industrial zone, which is where around 6,000 Palestinians go to work, and there's around 200 factories within that area. Israeli security sources telling us that he was in that area at the time, which is significant, because there is very high security around that industrial zone. And, in fact, around the crossing itself, the main crossing between Israel and Gaza. Around 20,000 Palestinians will use that crossing every day to get through to Israel to higher-paying jobs.

Now, this is also the same area that a suicide bomber, a woman suicide bomber, a mother of two, killed four Israeli guards when she detonated her explosives back in January. Now, the crossing and the area was closed off for a few days just after that. We have a kind of responsibility, Hamas and Al-Aqsa Martyrs brigade, the group affiliated with Yasser Arafat's Fatah movement, have claimed responsibility for this attack.

So the latest, we have four security guards, four members of the Israeli army have been wounded, one critically. We have a reaction as well from the prime minister's office, from Ariel Sharon's office. He says, this bombing -- quote -- "Proves, one, that Israel has no partner. Two, that Israel is compelled to take unilateral steps. And, three, Palestinians continue to do nothing to fight terror."

QUIJANO: Paula, any...

HANCOCKS: This suicide bombing (UNINTELLIGIBLE), of course, coming just a few days after Bush and Sharon did meet back on Wednesday, Kathleen.

HINOJOSA: Is there a sense, then, that's the reason why it happened, because of this -- of these discussions, these recent discussions, Paula?

HANCOCKS: It's possible, but it's really quite impossible to know. These suicide bombings happen fairly frequently over here, the last one happening in the middle of March.

But there weren't here was a lot of anger amongst the Palestinians after George Bush did endorse the disengagement plan from Gaza that Ariel Sharon presented to him last Wednesday. There was a tremendous amount of anger, especially because George Bush said that there shouldn't be a right of return for Palestinian refugees. Now, that's refugees that either fled or were forced to leave their homes back in 1948 in the Arab-Israeli war. They want to go back to their land. But George Bush agreeing with Sharon they shouldn't be able to -- Kathleen.

HAYS: Paula Hancocks, thank you for updating us in that live report from Jerusalem. And, of course, we'll be following the story throughout the day on CNN.

Now we're going to get back to the latest on Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I certainly would not have estimated that we would have had the number of individuals lost that we have had lost in the last week.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld saying on Thursday, he had been -- if he had been predicting the future, he would have been wrong about the deadly violence still confronting U.S. troops in Iraq more than a year after the war began.

Welcome back. We are ON THE STORY.

HAYS: You know, Barbara, in a couple of weeks, where everybody's talking about almost demanding apologies, demanding people to say what was your biggest mistake? That sounds awfully close to Don Rumsfeld, almost uncharacteristically saying, I got something wrong.

STARR: I think most of us in the briefing room, when he said that, were absolutely slack-jawed.

This man, for the last three and a half years is one of the most adamant spokesmen for the administration. Nothing is ever really wrong. He is always on plan. He is always on schedule. He is always on target. In Don Rumsfeld's world, things don't go wrong.

An astounding window -- just a slice -- into what he may really be thinking, into the question of policy vulnerability. It was just a little window that he let open for just a minute.

HINOJOSA: Why do you think he did that, though? I mean, what's -- if he's been so strong and firm, what's happening now?

STARR: I think you have to take him at face value at this point. There's not much else you can do with it.

He is really surprised about this. Now, of course -- about the number of casualties. In the last two weeks, we're now over 90 U.S. military fatalities in Iraq, not the kind of thing that's been seen for years by the U.S. military. The question that's not adding up at the moment, though, is we have kept hearing -- the U.S. population has kept hearing from the administration, we expected, they say, violence in that run-up to the June 30 transition date. We knew factions were going to vie for power. We knew there would be problems.

So if they saw all of that and they knew that was coming, why is Don Rumsfeld so surprised?

QUIJANO: Yes, because it doesn't seem to square away. I mean, on the one hand, that has been the Bush administration stance. And, in fact, you know, President Bush a couple weeks ago said, this June 30 deadline is something we're going to stick to, but it also is a convenient excuse for the insurgents to attack. And yet you have his secretary of defense coming out with a statement like this.

It really seems as though there's some discord, obviously.

STARR: It's an administration, as all of us know, that is always on message. And this was just a tiny step to the side.

And, you know, it should be said that we all say, This Don Rumsfeld you see on TV is the Don Rumsfeld that is the real Don Rumsfeld. But he's not a cartoon character. This is a very real person. Things should be understood about him. There are many days that no one knows about where he drives up -- he's taken up to Walter Reed Army Hospital here in Washington. He has visited the wounded many, many times in the hospital. He does not allow any publicity of those trips. It is known that he does it.

He does feel very deeply about the soldiers and about the wounded, but yet a very adamant proponent of administration policy.

HAYS: But, you know, there's so many questions here -- the question of the troops coming home. You're telling us how deeply Don Rumsfeld feels about this. And one of the interesting backdrops to me right now, this whole debate about Iraq, and even some Republicans wondering why we're there. And with -- was the Pentagon was involved (ph), and there's this idea that they were the neoconservatives who helped lead us down that road.

I would have -- I've always considered Don Rumsfeld one of the people who was pretty gung-ho on this, who thought we should do this and had to do this.

STARR: Oh, I think there's no question. He is just completely a proponent of administration policy.

What's going to be fascinating is, when the news is over and history's written years from now, to look back, I think, at what we don't know right now. What are the joint chiefs really saying? What did John Abizaid say when he laid down that marker a few weeks ago? I am going to ask for more troops. It was very clear, he laid down that marker before the decision was made to do it. We don't know what's really yet fully happening behind the scenes, the difference between news and history, if you will. But clearly, a lot of back and forth here.

HINOJOSA: You know what's interesting to me is, there was a news report I believe on CNN, where they were talking about how they're going to extend these troops, and you had families on one of the military bases who were so upset about this, that the wives started collecting signatures for a petition to say, "We want our men back." These are people who say we support this effort, and yet right now, they're saying we've had enough.

I mean, to me, that's fascinating.

STARR: It is. I mean -- I don't know. Is that an anti-war movement within the military? It's -- you know, it's hard to say. But they never -- the troops clearly never expected to be gone that long.

At the highest levels of the army, a lot of work going on to try and smooth the waters on this because they know. They know the troops are going to be very unhappy about staying. But another -- you know, we -- you talk about indicators all the time. Another fascinating indicator this week. No indication yet that recruiting for new troops and retention is going to be a problem. People are still signing up to join the military.

HAYS: We're lucky we have people like that, aren't we?

HINOJOSA: Thanks, Barbara.

Well, from the war in Iraq to the war in one family, a family that abortion protester Randall Terry had portrayed as a perfect Christian-American dream. I'm back on that story after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RANDALL TERRY, ANTI-ABORTION ACTIVIST: I have been a very high profile public figure in the fight against abortion and in the fight against homosexual marriage.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HINOJOSA: Long-time activist Randall Terry, who finds his family under siege by some of the very things that he has so vehemently opposed, including homosexuality. His son this very week came out publicly saying he is gay. His daughters say that they have split with their father over the rejection of their out-of-wedlock pregnancies.

Welcome back. We're ON THE STORY.

QUIJANO: Maria, talk to us about who he is, who the real Randall Terry is. Because you say you spent some time on the phone with him. You know, there's one thing with a public image, a public persona. Obviously, as an activist, there's a certain image he's cultivating in the public.

But for you, what was your sort of impression of him?

HINOJOSA: Well, look, most people -- I mean, Journalists usually know. You say Randall Terry and they remember.

Randall Terry is the founder of operation rescue. He is one of the most high-profile activisits. Pretty much the intellectual author of these blocking abortion clinics even from opening. Then was by courts told you can't get near abortion clinics, you can't block their doors anymore. And then he sort of moved on to become a huge proponent against gays, against homosexuality, against divorce, against unwed mothers. And then all of this kind of unravels with his son coming out and saying, Dad, I'm gay.

HAYS: So, you know, this is -- I mean, everything gay is big right now, if I could be a little bit light-hearted about this. And we have so many issues about homosexuality, gay marriage, Out magazine has been out for a long time.

Why does this young man decide now is the time? Is it a coming- of-age kind of thing? Is he angry at his father? Is he...

HINOJOSA: You know what? The father, Randall Terry, says you're just doing this because you want to hurt me. The son, who is 24 years old and really smart, extremely well spoken, said, Look, I wanted people to know that if I, the son of a Christian, anti-abortion, anti- gay activist can come out and say I'm gay, then you all who think you have problems, you can do it too.

The other point is that this kid, Jamil, who you see right there, wants to run for office one day. I mean, he's his father's son. He's very political. He wants to -- he's one day going to run for office. And he says, you know what? Being gay is not -- doesn't necessarily mean you won't be able to run for office. So he pretty much wants to take this on.

STARR: Where does this all now put Randall Terry in the anti- abortion movement?

HINOJOSA: Well, Randall Terry started having some problems because of the fact that, again, he was holding himself and this whole family up as being this perfect Christian family. Well, about three or four years ago, Randall Terry gets censored by his own church for having -- quote-unquote -- "sinful relationships" with other women.

Then it turns out he divorced his wife of many, many years and marries his church assistant, who's like 23 years old. And kind of the kids are saying, Wait, dad, you know, you were holding us up as this perfect family. We wanted to be that, but then you turn out doing the exact thing that you said we should never do. People should never get divorced and you do this.

So there's a lot of internal, kind of -- the family is falling apart because this image just isn't there.

HAYS: But what's so interesting -- and I think it is like a morality play of the American family, right? American families, you've got the one -- you know, the picture postcard image, and then underneath you have everything that's really going on.

But you also found in your reporting that the kids still love dad and they're still anti-abortion activists themselves.

HINOJOSA: They are. They still love their dad. It's weird.

Now these are three kids who are, biracial kids, who were adopted by Randall Terry, raised by him pretty much after they were like 5, 6, 7 years old. They continue to say that they support their father's right to speak out against abortion, to speak out against homosexuality. They kind of wish that he would tone it down, but I spoke to Randall Terry, and he said no. To me, this is a sin. I will never stop talking about this.

And it's, like, you know, you're preaching -- many people believe you're preaching hate against gays. You have a gay son. And at the same time, this father said to his son, the day before we interviewed him, you know what? You're going to be dead by the time you turn 42. The fact that a father can say this to his own son is extraordinary.

Two of the daughters both had pregnancies out of wedlock. One of them, who's 18 years old, second pregnancy right now. Father doesn't want them in the home. He feels very distraught. Father does not want the son in the home. So it's really just a fascinating story.

You know, they say, if you want to live in a glass house, you can't throw stones. And Randall Terry certainly threw a lot of stones.

HAYS: I'd say he's got a little PR rescue work to do right now.

Well, from Randall Terry to taxes and tanning. ON THE STORY continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUIJANO: And welcome back. We are ON THE STORY.

I guess the big question now -- we are coming out of tax day. So did everybody file on time?

HAYS: Of course not. I thought that's what extensions were for.

HINOJOSA: Extension, extension, extension.

QUIJANO: You're not supposed to say that.

HAYS: It's a well-known story about Kathleen Hays that I think that's what it's all -- that's why the government gives us extensions.

HINOJOSA: I haven't filed on time in who knows how long. But those extensions -- April 15, just one signature, boom, you're done.

STARR: Do you know I got my refund back already?

HAYS: Of course. That's why she covers the Pentagon.

But, you know, it's interesting because it's such a stress-filled time for so many people. And my -- I have an excuse. I was on vacation at the end of March. I was taking my time.

HINOJOSA: Right, but you were trying to get a tan from the sun.

HAYS: I was in the Dominican Republic for a week, and I thought tanning was sort of passe -- you get skin cancer, not supposed to do it too much. When I came back, everyone is, Oh my God, you look so great. And went, I got to think more about this tan thing.

Self-tanning has become the latest thing -- the latest wrinkle that doesn't wrinkle you. And we can see some pictures of it now. You -- they just spray it on, four hours later, it sets in, and you're tan for a week.

HIINOJOSA: But here's what you didn't tell us in the story. How much does that cost?

HAYS: It costs about 50 bucks. In some places, little bit less; in some places, a little bit more. I think the price is probably dropping because there's more salons opening up. So the price is really dropping.

QUIJANO: Maria, you're busy this week. You've got a special award Monday, right?

HINOJOSA: Yes. Wonderful award. It's the Feminist Press Crossing Borders Award. It will be Monday night at the Essex in New York. And basically, just saying, Hey, you're doing a great job. And I'm like, thank you so much. So that's coming from the Feminist Press on Monday night, yes.

HAYS: Well, we knew she was doing a great job already.

But there's more. You are doing this afternoon -- well, I am going to go home and try to finish my taxes. You're going to be doing something really fun.

HINOJOSA: You know what? I just think that you have to find ways to relieve stress that are fun. And I'm a mom of two kids. So I get together with a bunch of moms from my kids' school. And this afternoon at Morningside Park -- if anybody wants to come, you're welcome, you're absolutely welcome -- 2:00, we're going to be jumping double dutch -- double dutch for a couple of hours. It will be really fun.

HAYS: Doing the chants and everything.

(CROSSTALK)

HINOJOSA: Absolutely.

QUIJANO: Thanks, guys. We're back ON THE STORY after this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: Maureen Baginski was in the news this week. during the hearings of the commission investigating the terror attacks of September 11, 2001. What's her story? More after this.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: Maureen Baginksi was in the news this week. What's her story? She is the first executive assistant director for intelligence at the FBI. She sat beside FBI Director Robert Mueller at this week's hearings of the 9/11 commission. Hers was one of the few women's voices heard, in addition to former Attorney Janet Reno and commission member Jamie Gorelick.

JAMIE GORELICK, 9/11 COMMISSIONER: You are posited as a solution to many problems. Many times we've asked the question how is X going to get fixed, who is going to do Y. And often, very often, maybe too often for your comfort level, Mo Baginski is the answer.

ANNOUNCER: Before her FBI post, Baginksi led the National Security Agency's Signals Intelligence Directorate, the secret operation that eavesdrops on the world. She started at the NSA in 1979 as a Russian intelligence instructor.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STARR: Thanks to my colleagues and thank you for watching ON THE STORY. We'll be back next week.

Coming up right now, a check of the top stories.

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