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On the Story

Nichols Captured; U.S., Europe in Agreement Over Iran

Aired March 13, 2005 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. I'm Betty Nguyen at the CNN Center in Atlanta. ON THE STORY begins in just a moment. But first, here are the headlines "Now in the News."
A small Wisconsin town is in mourning after a deadly shooting spree during a church service at a hotel. A gunman opened fire on a congregation, killing seven people and himself. We will have live coverage of a news conference coming up in Brookfield, Wisconsin, about an hour from now.

Amid much speculation about her political plans, there is a firm "no" today from Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. She tells NBC she will not run for president in 2008. Some supporters of Rice have been pressing her to run, but today she had said no.

After several weeks in a Rome hospital, Pope John Paul II is getting ready to return to the Vatican. He's scheduled to be released a couple of hours from now. Earlier today, the pontiff appeared at the window of his hospital room and blessed the crowd below.

We will have more news coming up in 30 minutes. CNN's ON THE STORY begins right now.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And welcome to CNN's ON THE STORY, where our journalists have the inside word on the stories we covered this week from the Atlanta courthouse shooting, to the Middle East, to Wall Street. I'm Kelly Wallace, on the story of former President Bill Clinton back on the operating table this week, back on the road to recovery.

KIMBERLY OSIAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Kimberly Osias, on the story in Atlanta of that grisly courthouse shooting, the massive manhunt that ensued, the inevitable surrender, and now all the questions.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I'm Suzanne Malveaux, on the story of how the U.S. and Europe may be marching in step for a change, at least on the issue of Iran and nuclear weapons.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: And I'm Elizabeth Cohen, on the story of the latest twist in the national debate over gender and education, that young boys may need a classroom of their own.

KATHLEEN HAYS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And I'm Kathleen Hays, on the story of new fears this week of higher interest rates and a return of inflation as gas prices march higher.

Also coming up, Octavia Nasr is on the story in Lebanon, center stage in what some see as a new Middle East.

E-mail us at ONTHESTORY@CNN.com. Now straight to Kimberly Osias and the Atlanta courthouse shooting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SGT. CLARENCE HUBER, FULTON COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPT.: This morning we had a perpetrator -- we had a perpetrator at the Fulton County Courthouse who shot four individuals, a judge, two deputies, and a court clerk.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OSIAS: That was Sergeant Clarence Huber with the Fulton County Sheriff's Department. That, of course, was Friday after all the initial developments happened, after everything occurred. It was a grisly day in Fulton County, and of course everybody here is now breathing a sigh of relief since this man, 33-year-old Brian Nichols, has finally been captured.

WALLACE: Kimberly, an unbelievable story. So many of us riveted watching our television sets throughout the day yesterday. But looking ahead to this week, when is the first time we might see Brian Nichols in court and learn these additional charges he will be facing?

OSIAS: The earliest I understand that he will actually be in court is on Monday. He, of course, is in federal custody right now, facing a variety of state and federal charges as well. Georgia, of course, is a death penalty state. The state says that they want a crack at this guy first.

COHEN: Kelly, you're -- I mean, Kimberly, rather, you are standing at the apartment complex where Brian Nichols surrendered himself yesterday. Give us the details. How exactly did that come to pass?

OSIAS: Well, Elizabeth, you were actually out here last night. And it is a young woman that Mr. Nichols didn't know but he allegedly told her who he was.

Now, this is an amazing part of the story. This woman is being actually touted as a hero right now, because for several hours she endured an ordeal.

She was actually threatened with a gun, her friends were threatened. But she managed to tack this man down, this Brian Nichols down, enough that he allowed her to get out and to make that critical call to 911 that started everything in motion, basically a veritable armada that brought people here, ATF and sheriff officials, everything. They did not want to let this man go again.

MALVEAUX: And Kimberly, tell us about how he was actually -- I know he was apprehended, but his car, everybody was looking for this car. And apparently it was still in the parking lot of the courthouse? Is there some criticism? Or what are people saying about that?

OSIAS: I mean, that's amazing, that '97 green Honda, there was what they call a BOLO, or be on the lookout all over the country for this car. And ironically, it was right under their noses in that parking lot, the very same parking lot where he left, authorities now say, on foot.

Why they didn't cordon off that area and look there first, which is basically standard operating procedure, nobody knows. And as you mentioned, I mean, there definitely is somewhat of some criticism going on right now.

HAYS: And Kimberly, one of the reasons this story has been so dramatic, it isn't just what happened, it's also a judge being killed, another judge under siege just within two weeks of the Chicago judge's husband and mother being killed. A totally different case, but, again, a judge under fire. What about the discussion of that in Atlanta?

OSIAS: That's exactly right. I mean, that's a very good point.

I mean, here are people that are called, that are elected oftentimes to serve. It is also raising the issue of whether or not these judges are secure enough, if, in fact, they should have guns themselves. You know, so it's definitely brought that issue to the fore.

WALLACE: And Kimberly, you know watching the news conference yesterday with all the authorities a lot of questions going to the Fulton County sheriff about the security procedures that were under way at the courthouse. Perhaps a lot of criticism that there were lax security procedures that potentially led to this happening. What are you hearing, and what are they doing looking forward to try and improve this situation?

OSIAS: Well, Kelly, as you may know, he actually -- Nichols is said to have moved from the new courthouse all the way over to the old courthouse. He went down eight flights of stairs. I mean, he definitely took some time that he could have used to actually escape.

He definitely was a man on a mission to go and shoot this judge. Again, these are alleged charges right now. But nevertheless, the issue of security is being raised.

He was escorted by one come woman, one female deputy. Why there weren't some other people around with her -- because this man was a 220-pound linebacker. And regardless of a female or not, perhaps there could have been more people escorting him. You know, it is certainly an accused right to not be shackled when they face jurors because they don't want to ascribe any kind of guilt to that person.

COHEN: And they -- Kimberly, they had special reason to suspect that this man might be violent. I mean, not only was he going to go on trial for rape, but the day before he had done something that should have made them a little suspicious.

OSIAS: Oh, that's exactly right, Elizabeth. In fact, he had homemade knives in his shoe, actually. I mean, oftentimes inmates do that sort of thing. But nevertheless, certainly they did have that hint, that foreshadowing that perhaps he was dangerous.

The attorney that was actually supposed to represent him in a rape trial that he was supposed to deal with before actually sort of alluded to the fact that he was appearing somewhat unusual and a bit crazy in his demeanor.

MALVEAUX: Kimberly, I know there was another case you covered that really attracted so much attention around the country, perhaps unfairly because of the pajama bottoms. But everybody -- Michael Jackson, I mean, what happened that day? What was going on?

OSIAS: Well, Suzanne, hat's a little bit of levity, at least, taking a shift, at least in his appearance. But he came to court late, actually, and, of course, quite a circus around that because he appeared finally.

The judge gave about an hour delay, an hour respite because apparently Michael Jackson, his attorney was saying that he had some serious back problems. But yet, he walked out of that ATV on his own power, despite the fact that when they lifted up the trunk you could see a wheelchair in there. And we all thought, oh my goodness, they're going to bring a wheelchair and he's going to actually get wheeled in.

But then Michael Jackson, for his part, sort of turned to the right, turned to the left, greeted his fans, and then went into the courthouse. But his hair was askew, he looked somewhat disheveled and really wasn't responsive.

HAYS: Kimberly?

OSIAS: Yes?

HAYS: Is there some sense that this -- the testimony this week is getting to Michael Jackson, that having to listen to his accuser describe alleged molestation is just taking its toll and he doesn't want to be in the courtroom? This is tough stuff. How do you think it stacks up at week's end?

OSIAS: Well, yes. I mean, he's definitely a frail individual. And you can see that it is.

I mean, he definitely has presented that sort of aura, at least court observers are certainly saying that. And interestingly when his accuser, this young boy, this 15-year-old takes the stand, Michael in the past has taken off his sunglasses that he has had on in the court and stared directly at him.

It's sort of been a stare-down between the two of them. So obviously this is critical in the case because if jurors, in fact, believe this 15-year-old boy, pretty much game over for Michael Jackson.

MALVEAUX: Well, Kimberly, thank you very much. Please keep us informed on all of those developments for the cases that you are covering this week.

Now, from the crime beat to the big international policy story of the week, the U.S. and its allies split on Iraq, may be coming together on Iran.

And still ahead, how men and women see faces and world differently.

And later in the hour, on "What's Her Story?" feature, this week on a high-profile college president out of a job.

All ahead, all ON THE STORY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I look forward to working with our are European friends to make it abundantly clear to the Iranian regime that the free world will not tolerate them having a nuclear weapon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: President Bush Friday talking tough about Iran, but at the same time signaling new unity with European allies.

Welcome back. I'm Suzanne Malveaux.

And, of course, that was really kind of an extraordinary development over the week, just the position on Iran.

COHEN: Right, Suzanne. We just heard President Bush talk about our European friends. Things haven't always been so friendly between the U.S. and Europe. Are the two going to be able to present a unified front against Iran?

MALVEAUX: Well, here's what happened. It was really interesting, because I talked with a senior administration official who said, "Look, please don't read this as a shift in U.S.-Iranian policy. We are not giving the Iranians these carrots. We are giving the Europeans something to work with to negotiate with the Iranians."

But make no mistake, it was a huge shift in policy when it came to dealing with Iran. And essentially it came out of those meeting that President Bush had with Chirac, with Schroeder, with Blair in Europe just a couple of weeks ago. They said to him -- they turned to him and said, we want some things. We need some things to make sure that Iran comes back to the table and negotiates with us. We don't have enough.

So they asked for two things. They asked the U.S. to drop its objection to its application for the WTO, World Trade Organization. And then also to allow these kind of spare parts for its aircraft to supply that.

Bush said, yes, I will go ahead and do that, but I want something in exchange. The Europeans said, OK, we'll send -- we'll refer them to the U.N. Security Council if it ends up that they don't comply.

So, I mean, the big question here is what is Iran going to do? It's now in their hands.

HAYS: So what happens next? I mean, it is in their hands, and now they can't say, well, you are not giving us enough, we won't trade a lion for a mouse, et cetera. What happens now?

MALVEAUX: Well, here's the thing, is that what they're saying is that there are a couple of things that they didn't resolve. One is a timetable. I mean, how long are they going to actually allow them to have these discussions to continue?

I mean, this is something that they've been waiting for. And they say -- and the WTO, by the way, that objection was really -- that was very significant, because the U.S. has objected 20 times to allowing them to enter that organization. So they said, OK, we'll go ahead and allow that.

But how fast are they going to move? And also, whether or not Iran is really going to be able to comply, because it's going to take perhaps months, perhaps years for them to make those kinds of reforms to get in that world organization. We have seen it with China, we see it with Russia. So there are some who really believe this is not going to move very fast.

WALLACE: You know, you said the senior administration official says no shift here. The White House, of course, all White Houses, never want to acknowledge any shift. You know, this is always Plan A. But clearly, as you said, a shift.

What about behind the scenes? There has to be some debate going on, because there are parts of the administration, more of a hard-line approach, that probably didn't want to see this come.

MALVEAUX: Right. And what they're saying -- and this is actually what -- what -- when it shifted, because some of these people are saying, look, you know, we really don't believe that Iran is ever going to comply. We really don't think it's going to happen. So why don't we go ahead and do this: why don't we go ahead comply, give the Europeans what they want?

And they call it chips to play with in negotiations, not the carrots. They don't want to call them "carrots." But chips to play with, so we can actually prove that Iran will never comply.

That's the whole idea from those hard-liners, from those hawks who say, we don't think it's ever going to happen, let's prove to the world it's not going to happen. We will give them an offer here and let's see if they do anything. They're not going to comply. Then we hit them back, go back to the U.N. Security Council and we hit them with economic sanctions. At least we can show the world, hey, you know, we agreed with the Europeans, we cooperated, now look what's happened.

COHEN: So, Suzanne, on another story, are we still going to be seeing Condi in 2008? Is she going to have a campaign of her own?

WALLACE: Oh, we love this story.

MALVEAUX: And those outfits, you know? Wouldn't that be lovely if the president -- if she as a president wore those outfits? I'm telling you.

But it was really kind of amazing the speculation that -- in Washington it is really incredible. People want to see a showdown between Secretary Rice and Senator Hillary Clinton.

WALLACE: Girl power. Girl power. I love it.

MALVEAUX: Absolutely.

WALLACE: Bring it on.

MALVEAUX: Here's what she said this mornings earlier today about that prospect.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, SECRETARY OF STATE: I don't want to run for president of the United States.

TIM RUSSERT, "MEET THE PRESS": I will not run?

RICE: I do not intend to run for -- no, I will not run for president of the United States? How's that? I don't know how many ways to say no in this town.

RUSSERT: Period. Period.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: So for now. "I will not run" for now.

HAYS: Yes, but Hillary Clinton has been saying the same thing, and we know she is quietly lining up her forces.

MALVEAUX: Absolutely. I know. I know.

Well, it -- but it is interesting, too, to see how she's kind of -- both of them have moved their positions, or at least been more vocal about their positions. We see Senator Clinton, as you know, of course, talking about her position on pro-choice, but at the same time a little bit more conservative, saying, well, I understand the other side, the pro-life side. We hear Secretary Rice earlier today and yesterday talking about, well, I -- you know, I'm kind of pro-choice. So these two are merging together, coming closer together. Both of them, it looks like, trying to win the same audience.

WALLACE: We love it. We love it.

(CROSSTALK)

WALLACE: Well, from the incumbent president to a former Bill Clinton back on the operating table this week, we are back on that story right after this.

Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am very pleased to let you know that former President Clinton underwent successful surgery this morning. Senator Clinton and Chelsea arrived with him. They are with him now. He is awake, he was resting comfortably.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: And that was the president of New York Presbyterian Hospital with the first update on former President Bill Clinton's operation on Thursday. The latest word, he is resting comfortably. He was actually getting around the hospital and walking a little bit.

So welcome back. I'm Kelly Wallace, and we're back ON THE STORY.

MALVEAUX: I can only imagine what they're like at the hospital. He must be doing rounds, laps already around the hallways.

WALLACE: He is not going to be taking his time, exactly. His aides did say that he did get up on Friday and was starting to walk. Like you said, making rounds around the hospital.

I guess it should be about a total of three to 10 days he's in the hospital. But after that, about four to six weeks of recovery, where he won't be able to do any travel really. He'll have to be in his Chappaqua home. But his aides are already getting memos and correspondence ready to be sending his way.

MALVEAUX: What can we expect from him? I know I had actually seen him a couple of months ago in New York at a dinner. And it seemed like when he was up, he was up, he was very lively, very vibrant, and then he got tired really quickly.

What do we expect with his schedule? Do we expect to see him, to see him out and about? WALLACE: You do. And it is interesting watching him over the six months since his heart bypass surgery, because he sort of got out there on the road for John Kerry about seven weeks after his heart bypass and kept up a pretty robust schedule.

When he started walking and walking uphill, he was noticing a little shortness of breath. And he went to the doctor before he was going to go to this -- on this Asia trip with former President Bush and this is where they diagnosed the problem. They say, interestingly enough, after having this procedure, which is very rare, he should be in even better shape in terms of his breathing capacity.

So they say, you know, he will get back to normal. He'll be doing a lot on tsunami relief, his AIDS foundation, touring the country, touring the world. So they expect him to be fully back to his old stuff.

COHEN: Kelly, have you heard any talk that perhaps Clinton got too robust too quickly after that September surgery?

WALLACE: Elizabeth, and you know as a medical correspondent, it really was the first question that we all had after hearing about this. This was, could his robust schedule, all his activity over the past several weeks and months be part of the problem?

Doctors say no. And the former President Bush and the former President Bill Clinton tried to do their best to sort of downplay this as well. Take a listen when they were at the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM J. CLINTON, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is no big deal. And I -- you know, I felt well enough to go to Asia to try to keep up with President Bush.

GEORGE H. W. BUSH, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You should have seen him going town to town, country to country. The Energizer Bunny here. He killed me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: I don't know about you guys. I can't get enough of watching these two men together, these former rivals, now good friends. Former President Bush calling him the "Energizer Bunny." Bill Clinton saying, "I can't keep up with this guy."

They are quite funny.

HAYS: But Bill Clinton, of course, I mean, he cannot stop talking about the events of the day, Iraq, timetable for withdrawal. And people are kind of wondering, to what extent is this a subtle beginning of the campaign for Hillary, recasting them both, but particularly her as right down the road centrist?

WALLACE: It was so interesting watching them, and you obviously see them at the White House taking questions. First of all, former President Bush would answer a question in 15 seconds. Bill Clinton would go on for about...

(CROSSTALK)

WALLACE: Some things don't change. But when he was asked about the Iraq elections, and he said big support for them, he said there should be no call for a timetable to pull U.S. troops out, well, a lot of people, conservative analysts and pundits, are saying whoa, is he trying to help kind of move his wife to the center with his words, his actions, spending so much time with the Bush family, the current president and the former president, does that help? It remains to be seen what will happen, the political implications of this.

MALVEAUX: And I also imagine, too, there's some speculation about, you know, why -- everybody just loves to hear Clinton. You know, everybody flocks to him.

How is that really framing the debate? And is it even appropriate that we should talk so much or hear so much from him? Because he does have a certain point of view, and whether or not that puts the Bush administration kind of in the shadows.

WALLACE: Well, you know, that's a great question, actually. And it's hard to say.

You know, you do. Everybody, we sort of all cover him. He seems to -- I was telling someone when we were doing the story last week, I said, "My goodness, former President Clinton gets in the news no matter what."

You know, there they are at the White House to talk about tsunami relief. President Bush to kind of cheer on what the former presidents have been doing. And news about his surgery comes out.

But, you know, you have to watch it. I think that Hillary Clinton is going to be a formidable candidate should she ever decide to run for the presidency. Many people think so.

But at the same time, there is going to be a strong opposition no matter what, no matter whether Bill Clinton is out there talking, not matter what she's saying. Some would argue even having Bill Clinton talk and make these statements could even empower conservatives more. So, you know, it's early on and we'll just have to watch.

HAYS: But talking about campaigns makes me think of advertising and another story that you were on this week that had to deal with people...

WALLACE: Very good segue.

HAYS: ... renting out parts of their bodies for advertisement. This includes a pregnant woman who had some extra space to sell. Here's Kelly Wallace on this very interesting story.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE (voice-over): She rented her pregnant belly to GoldenPalace.com, an online gambling site. The one-time model then modeled her new belly at the Daytona 500.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Actually, I did it because I'm a single mother. My child's father left me within days of finding out I was pregnant. And I honestly needed the money.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It won't be freakish when Leonard DiCaprio puts a Pepsi logo on his forehead during the Oscars. It won't be freakish at all.

WALLACE (on camera): Do you see that happening someday?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One day?

WALLACE: You do?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It will happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: All right. Well, some people think it's hard to believe that we will ever see Leonard DiCaprio putting a Pepsi logo. But this is getting more and more momentum.

And it's all part of a growing trend where you are seeing ads in unlikely places, on trains. There's a New York City subway train, ads everywhere for "Deadwood." It's almost converted into a saloon. And someone telling me ads on urinals. I can't...

HAYS: It's a captive audience. It was a big deal when the jockeys in the Kentucky Derby got to wear advertisements on their silks. So it is a -- it is a growing trend.

Well, we're back on the story of the rest of the week's economic news, why we saw new worries about highest interest rates, higher inflation, higher energy prices.

Also ahead, protesters on the march in Lebanon in recent days. Our Arab affairs editor Octavia Nasr talks about what's at stake for that country and for that region.

That's all coming up all ON THE STORY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our prices at the gas pump and rising home heating bills, the possibility of blackout are legitimate concerns for all Americans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYS: Indeed. President Bush echoing the concerns of many consumers that those numbers are rolling faster and faster on the gas pump with even higher prices predicted for summer.

Welcome back. I'm Kathleen Hays and we are ON THE STORY.

WALLACE: So, Kathleen, bad news for drivers this summer, bad news though for flyers too, right?

HAYS: Look, the airlines are hurting so badly, you know. Half of them are in bankruptcy and trying to get out and these higher fuel costs translate directly into higher jet fuel costs.

Interesting there's even a sense that we're starting to see an impact on drivers because, you know, most have a vision of the Americans saying, look, I'll pay even $2.15 a gallon this summer. That's what the government is predicting because I want to drive my SUV.

But some of the experts are saying at the very least, and in fact I was talking to a train conductor yesterday, when I was on my to Washington from New York, who said he had switched from a Suburban to an Explorer and experts saying we are starting to see that impact ever so slightly starting to bite.

And the problem is that, you know, years ago when oil prices went through the roof there was an oil embargo that took them up to an inflation-adjusted $3.00 a gallon. This is a very different situation. There's not an embargo that's going to go away and bring oil prices, you know, tumbling down hugely lower.

It's rising demand around the world and now financial markets saying, hey, we can make money by pushing that price up. So, it looks like these high prices are here to stay for a while.

COHEN: And, Kathleen, have the prices ever been this high before or is this going to be a new record high what they're predicting for the summer?

HAYS: In terms of dollars terms don't adjust for inflation. This will be a record high. Again, if you adjust for inflation and you say, oh well, again back in the '80s they would be higher.

I think another concern, if we want to go back to the future and wonder what kind of worries we should have, are we going to have a recession because of high oil prices?

Are we going to have rising inflation and rising interest rates because of higher energy prices? You know last year the economy was weaker so people worried more about the impact on the consumer slowing things down.

This week -- this year, the economy is a little stronger, higher jobs. People think maybe those prices get passed through to the consumer if it's inflation than higher rates. That doesn't just hurt us at the gas pump then. It could hurt us when we go to get a mortgage.

MALVEAUX: And, Kathleen, we heard from the president this week as well. He kind of dusted off his energy policy once again and this is something he brought up four years ago he was campaigning for and it doesn't really seem to have very much of an appetite, at least in Congress, his energy policy to push it forward.

Even this, you know, controversial drilling in Alaska, a wildlife refuge, do you think that there's any kind of traction on Wall Street for taking a second look at the president's plan to say, look, perhaps this will have an impact on gas prices?

HAYS: People are watching but, again, I think they don't see the politics lining up yet to get anything passed and certainly even some of the parts of this bill that would point more towards alternative sources of energy.

Now, we've seen hybrid cars doing better. We've seen some of the companies that produce these other kinds of gas, other kinds of engines doing better but I think it's still a wait and see because the president has so much on his plate.

Meanwhile, I think people are concerned though about the squeeze on the middle class because even though jobs are growing faster and the economy has been better, we haven't seen wages growing faster. So, you know, maybe we'll see inflation but for some people this will mean less spending power and it could be the worst of both worlds for some families.

WALLACE: Picking up on that, the middle class, because it was very interesting to watch bankruptcy legislation passing and moving through Congress this week but at least getting a sense from you some thinking this legislation is not going to be good for us.

HAYS: Well, the consumer advocates say this is a real stinker of a bill.

WALLACE: Why?

HAYS: Because what the credit card companies and the banks have been arguing for years is, they've tried for nearly a decade to get this passed, is that there are -- people exploit the system. They wantonly run up big credit card bills and then they laugh all the way to the bank and declare bankruptcy.

A recent study from Harvard showed that, in fact, about half of the bankruptcies occur after a family is hit with a big medical bill. They occur when one of the spouses loses a job, when there's a divorce.

And, if this was hurting the credit card companies so much, why did they make $30 billion in profits last year? The critics say a lot of those profits have gone straight to the pockets of people in Congress and that this bill has a lot to do with big business getting a big victory.

If you're in financial trouble and you think you need to declare bankruptcy perhaps, do it now. There will be a six-month window where you can still do it without strings attached. When this bill, if it becomes law, and again if you don't like the bill you better, you know, find your representative and write them fast because the House is supposed to clear this pretty soon.

There will be a means test. There will be many more strings attached. Meanwhile, they didn't make it harder for wealthy people to shelter their assets in bankruptcy. Those amendments were considered by the Senate and rejected.

WALLACE: Viewers are going to be outraged a little bit about that.

Well, the economy -- from the economy moving to another story, the Middle East. What is going on, on the ground, in Lebanon? We're going to check in with our Octavia Nasr, who is in Beirut. We'll be with her right after this. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: All Syrian military forces and intelligence personnel must withdraw before the Lebanese elections for those elections to be free and fair.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: President Bush hammering home the point he has made repeatedly. Syrian forces, all of them, must leave Lebanon. Hundreds of thousands of people in Lebanon have been on the march in recent days. More rallies are coming as soon as tomorrow.

Welcome back. We are ON THE STORY. And, our Arab Affairs Editor Octavia Nasr is ON THE STORY right now in Lebanon and joins us from Beirut, Octavia, great to see you.

Question for you, since you've been on the ground since yesterday what is the mood? What is the mood you're picking up?

OCTAVIA NASR, CNN ARAB AFFAIRS EDITOR: Well, you've heard in the media the words "the revolution of the Cedars, the Cedar Revolution." That's exactly what we've been seeing.

Since we arrived yesterday everybody seems to be in -- when I say everybody I mean everybody from the taxi drivers to the hair stylists to the shoe shiner on the street, everybody is talking about this revolution that is taking place in Lebanon.

I'm standing here a few feet away from the square where the demonstrators have been sitting in for the last 24, 25 days non-stop, sitting in, in protest of Syria's presence in Lebanon, and also they're asking for the truth.

They want to know who killed, who was behind the assassination of the former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri. Tomorrow marks the one month anniversary of this assassination and the opposition here in Lebanon is planning a huge demonstration. They're getting ready as we speak.

I'm standing here. Right behind me is the prime minister's official office. This demonstration that we're talking about and the sit-in forced the prime minister to resign, him and his cabinet. It forces also the Syrian president to go on television and say that he is pulling his troops out of Lebanon.

So, these people are energized. They do understand and they do feel that the U.S. is behind them. The whole world is behind them it seems like and they are planning to take full advantage of that.

COHEN: Octavia, this revolution at this point involves demonstrations like the one we just saw. What are the chances that it will turn violent?

NASR: A lot of people are saying that there is a chance that these revolutions, that this revolution, these demonstrations will turn violent. But what happened is these people have been sitting in for the last 24, 25 days, no violence did take place.

These are unarmed people. They're civilians. They're people that are coming to the square that they're calling now the Liberty Square, the Freedom Square. It is the Martyr Square.

It's very symbolic for Lebanon. They're pouring in. Some of them are spending the night, not going home, and basically they do believe that if they keep their demonstration positive and peaceful, violence is not going to take hold.

Now, there were other demonstrations. The other ones were pro- Syria and they were called for and supported by the Hezbollah militia. This is the Shia militia here in Lebanon that is very pro-Syrian and they are armed and yet they didn't have any violence in the street.

You might be hearing in the background the music coming from Martyr Square. It has been like this since we arrived. It's going on non-stop. Sometimes it's less noisy and sometimes more noisy but we definitely expect tomorrow to be a big one.

Many people are going to show up. Some people are coming in tonight to spend the night because they are afraid that the roads are going to be blocked and they might not be able to make it tomorrow.

MALVEAUX: Octavia, the president has talked a lot about this and he really in many of his speeches takes the opportunity in some ways to take credit for what is happening where you are.

And it seems as if the Europeans and many people here give him that credit, give the administration that credit because they see what happened in Iraq with the elections.

What are the Lebanese people thinking about President Bush? Has his image changed in any way?

NASR: We asked some protesters today this very question and basically they're saying that they were very encouraged by what happened in Iraq, especially the elections. The fact that the Iraqis braved the violence and went to the polls and participated in free election energized the Lebanese people.

But they're very quick to tell you that you have to draw a line. Iraq is not Lebanon and basically they want to take full credit for what they're doing. They're saying "We have the Syrian occupation in Lebanon. We don't have a U.S. occupation."

They're very quick to point out that Iraq is still under the U.S. occupation and they are saying that they don't want what happened in Iraq to happen here, which means that they don't want the U.S. to come to Lebanon, rid the Lebanese of the Syrian occupation and then have free elections.

They are hoping that they are going to be able to push the Syrians out and change the government and find the truth about who killed the former prime minister and also have a free and independent country without the help of the U.S. militarily.

HAYS: But, OK, I think it's hard for many Americans to understand why anyone in Syria -- excuse me, in Lebanon, would support the Syrian troops there and I think they don't understand that Lebanon is a country like Iraq with different religious factions.

And, as you mentioned in passing, it's the Shia faction mainly that has this link to Syria and they are a formidable, they are a big part of the country. How does this play out?

NASR: Well, it's very important to understand that Syria came to Lebanon by invitation from the Lebanese themselves. The problem, as the Lebanese put it, is that Syria came in by invitation. Its role was done and Syria refused to leave.

There were several agreements that were signed between the Lebanese and the Syrian government that would have asked Syria to leave by now. Some say that Syria should have been out of Lebanon back in 1992 because the war ended in 1990.

So, what happened is that Syria has interests in Lebanon and, of course, Syria supports the militia that we're talking about, Hezbollah, which is a Shia militia. So, now the Lebanese are saying times have changed. They're saying thank you very much for Syria but it's time for Syria to go out.

COHEN: Octavia, thank you. We'll be watching for your reports in the coming days. But today, we would like to wish you Octavia Nasr a happy birthday. I wish you were here in Atlanta, so I could give you a big birthday hug. I've been told I'm not allowed to sing, so I won't sing, but thanks so much for joining us and happy birthday, Octavia.

NASR: Thank you guys. Thank you so much.

COHEN: Now, from the Middle East to another divide -- another divide is what we'll be talking about when we come back, this time not among countries but between the sexes, new information on how men and women view the world. I'm back on that story after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEONARD SAX, AUTHOR, "WHY GENDER MATTERS": What's the first thing you hear a teacher say in most of those classrooms? Please everybody sit down and be quiet. That's easier for most five and 6- year-old girls than it is for most five and 6-year-old boys.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: That was Dr. Leonard Sax, author of the book, "Why Gender Matters." What's the first thing you hear most teachers say in most of these classrooms? Please everybody sit down. That's what he tells us and for many of us that's pretty obvious. If you've ever been in a classroom with five and 6-year-old children, well you know that the girls often have an easier time sitting down than the boys.

HAYS: Elizabeth, for years, we've heard boys will be boys and that has kind of an old-fashioned tint and kind of the taint of political incorrectness. But when it comes to brain, this evidence you've been looking at, these studies, suggest maybe it's true because the brains are somewhat different between boys and girls. The boys do need their own classroom.

COHEN: Right. What scientists have done is they've done scans of male and female brains, both adults and they've also looked at some scans of children's brains and what they've seen is that there are actual physiological differences.

Now, not all scientists agree on this but many say, look, the corpus collosum, which is the area of the brain where that shares information between the two hemispheres, it's bigger in women, so women can process something in many different areas of the brain.

And that's why some scientists say women multitask better. Studies show that women are better at multitasking because they have more cooperation between the two hemispheres.

Men, on the other hand, have more activity in the spatial and mechanical centers and sometimes are better at those kinds of skills. Women more action in the emotional and the verbal centers of the brain, sometimes better at those skills. But, again, sometimes is the key. This isn't true of every single man and every single woman.

WALLACE: And, Elizabeth, obviously this whole issue getting so much attention because of the issue, Harvard University President Lawrence Summers raised in January where he said maybe suggesting there could be intrinsic aptitude differences between the sexes.

In connection with that, there are some researchers who say that perhaps women, reasons why women aren't doing better, let's just say in math or in science, studies show that women when they are taking tests or in classes by themselves with women only and not with boys or men they seem to do better when they're in a single sex class. What are you picking up on that?

COHEN: Right. Well, proponents of single sex education say that women or girls, rather, suffer from sort of a crisis of confidence, especially when they're around boys.

And so, if they're taking a test with boys, as you said, they just -- they'll doubt themselves more, whereas if they're just around other girls they'll have more confidence. There's a really fascinating study that looked at 11th graders who were very high achievers, all of them smart, the boys and the girls. When...

HAYS: Well, it looks like we've lost Elizabeth Cohen. That's disappointing. I love this story so, so much and, you know, she had another story. I don't know if we can roll this or not but a story she did this week about how men and women actually see things differently and it's kind of reflecting these brain differences. And we know she had this really wonderful interchange with one of our CNN anchors Anderson Cooper.

WALLACE: Yes, let's take -- can we roll that because it was really fun to watch? Let's see. Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COHEN: Take a look at that truck. It's on a slope. It's not moving and about half that white tank is filled with water. Which line below represents the water surface in the bank? If you could see the water, what would that line look like? So, you've got ten -- eight seconds rather. The clock is ticking.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, I think I have my answer. All right is it G?

COHEN: It is the line marked O. That is the one, so yes, you didn't get that one right.

COOPER: Yes, all right.

COHEN: Let's take a look at two faces. She's a little scary. Which of these faces is more sad than the other or are they equally sad?

COOPER: First of all, I don't think you should have used Lou Dobbs' face in this but anyway which one is more sad?

COHEN: More sad. You've got eight seconds or now a little bit less than that. Which one looks more sad?

COOPER: Neither looks happy, I got to tell you. It's like Lou talking about outsourcing. More sad?

COHEN: More sad. Your time is up, so obviously you didn't get that one.

(END VIDEOTAPE) COHEN: It was the lady on the left. She was the more sad one. And it's interesting because Anderson obviously couldn't get that one. I got that one immediately but I could not get that truck one and that sort of that's what scientists say are typical answers for men and women.

I could tell that the woman on the left was sadder and when I really looked at it. The truck one, what you're supposed to guess is if there were water in that tank what level would the water be at. And the answer is O. I thought it was A and then I thought it was E and then I...

MALVEAUX: Elizabeth, what is this supposed to show? And I know there was another part of the discussion too about the role of evolution that somehow that might play a part in how the brains are different?

COHEN: Right. What that's supposed to show is that men have more activity in the mechanical and spatial centers of the brain and some scientists say it allows them to picture things in space, to picture what something would look like if it were there.

So, you don't actually see the water but that men are better at sort of imagining what level it would be at and that women are better at picking up emotional cues like which of those two women is sadder.

HAYS: What's wrong with me because I couldn't tell? I couldn't tell who looked sadder. I thought it was the exact same picture just framed differently. They're really different, huh?

COHEN: Kathleen, I'm happy to say nothing is wrong with you.

WALLACE: All right. We'll be right back, more ON THE STORY after this. Don't go away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: A university president resigns under fire. What's her story? More when we return.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: Elizabeth Hoffman, what's her story? The University of Colorado president quit this week amidst criticism over a professor's remarks about 9/11 victims and the football team's recruiting practices.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In my discussions with President Hoffman in recent days, it was apparent to both of us that her support had been waning for some time. On Monday, President Hoffman realized the future of CU is far more important than any single individual.

ANNOUNCER: Earlier, ethnic studies Professor Ward Churchill caused an academic freedom uproar over an essay he wrote comparing some World Trade Center victims to Nazis.

And an investigation continues into whether the school lured prospective football players with alcohol and sex. Hoffman's been president of the university since 2000.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Thanks to my fabulous colleagues and thank you for watching ON THE STORY. We will be back next week.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired March 13, 2005 - 10:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. I'm Betty Nguyen at the CNN Center in Atlanta. ON THE STORY begins in just a moment. But first, here are the headlines "Now in the News."
A small Wisconsin town is in mourning after a deadly shooting spree during a church service at a hotel. A gunman opened fire on a congregation, killing seven people and himself. We will have live coverage of a news conference coming up in Brookfield, Wisconsin, about an hour from now.

Amid much speculation about her political plans, there is a firm "no" today from Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. She tells NBC she will not run for president in 2008. Some supporters of Rice have been pressing her to run, but today she had said no.

After several weeks in a Rome hospital, Pope John Paul II is getting ready to return to the Vatican. He's scheduled to be released a couple of hours from now. Earlier today, the pontiff appeared at the window of his hospital room and blessed the crowd below.

We will have more news coming up in 30 minutes. CNN's ON THE STORY begins right now.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And welcome to CNN's ON THE STORY, where our journalists have the inside word on the stories we covered this week from the Atlanta courthouse shooting, to the Middle East, to Wall Street. I'm Kelly Wallace, on the story of former President Bill Clinton back on the operating table this week, back on the road to recovery.

KIMBERLY OSIAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Kimberly Osias, on the story in Atlanta of that grisly courthouse shooting, the massive manhunt that ensued, the inevitable surrender, and now all the questions.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I'm Suzanne Malveaux, on the story of how the U.S. and Europe may be marching in step for a change, at least on the issue of Iran and nuclear weapons.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: And I'm Elizabeth Cohen, on the story of the latest twist in the national debate over gender and education, that young boys may need a classroom of their own.

KATHLEEN HAYS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And I'm Kathleen Hays, on the story of new fears this week of higher interest rates and a return of inflation as gas prices march higher.

Also coming up, Octavia Nasr is on the story in Lebanon, center stage in what some see as a new Middle East.

E-mail us at ONTHESTORY@CNN.com. Now straight to Kimberly Osias and the Atlanta courthouse shooting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SGT. CLARENCE HUBER, FULTON COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPT.: This morning we had a perpetrator -- we had a perpetrator at the Fulton County Courthouse who shot four individuals, a judge, two deputies, and a court clerk.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OSIAS: That was Sergeant Clarence Huber with the Fulton County Sheriff's Department. That, of course, was Friday after all the initial developments happened, after everything occurred. It was a grisly day in Fulton County, and of course everybody here is now breathing a sigh of relief since this man, 33-year-old Brian Nichols, has finally been captured.

WALLACE: Kimberly, an unbelievable story. So many of us riveted watching our television sets throughout the day yesterday. But looking ahead to this week, when is the first time we might see Brian Nichols in court and learn these additional charges he will be facing?

OSIAS: The earliest I understand that he will actually be in court is on Monday. He, of course, is in federal custody right now, facing a variety of state and federal charges as well. Georgia, of course, is a death penalty state. The state says that they want a crack at this guy first.

COHEN: Kelly, you're -- I mean, Kimberly, rather, you are standing at the apartment complex where Brian Nichols surrendered himself yesterday. Give us the details. How exactly did that come to pass?

OSIAS: Well, Elizabeth, you were actually out here last night. And it is a young woman that Mr. Nichols didn't know but he allegedly told her who he was.

Now, this is an amazing part of the story. This woman is being actually touted as a hero right now, because for several hours she endured an ordeal.

She was actually threatened with a gun, her friends were threatened. But she managed to tack this man down, this Brian Nichols down, enough that he allowed her to get out and to make that critical call to 911 that started everything in motion, basically a veritable armada that brought people here, ATF and sheriff officials, everything. They did not want to let this man go again.

MALVEAUX: And Kimberly, tell us about how he was actually -- I know he was apprehended, but his car, everybody was looking for this car. And apparently it was still in the parking lot of the courthouse? Is there some criticism? Or what are people saying about that?

OSIAS: I mean, that's amazing, that '97 green Honda, there was what they call a BOLO, or be on the lookout all over the country for this car. And ironically, it was right under their noses in that parking lot, the very same parking lot where he left, authorities now say, on foot.

Why they didn't cordon off that area and look there first, which is basically standard operating procedure, nobody knows. And as you mentioned, I mean, there definitely is somewhat of some criticism going on right now.

HAYS: And Kimberly, one of the reasons this story has been so dramatic, it isn't just what happened, it's also a judge being killed, another judge under siege just within two weeks of the Chicago judge's husband and mother being killed. A totally different case, but, again, a judge under fire. What about the discussion of that in Atlanta?

OSIAS: That's exactly right. I mean, that's a very good point.

I mean, here are people that are called, that are elected oftentimes to serve. It is also raising the issue of whether or not these judges are secure enough, if, in fact, they should have guns themselves. You know, so it's definitely brought that issue to the fore.

WALLACE: And Kimberly, you know watching the news conference yesterday with all the authorities a lot of questions going to the Fulton County sheriff about the security procedures that were under way at the courthouse. Perhaps a lot of criticism that there were lax security procedures that potentially led to this happening. What are you hearing, and what are they doing looking forward to try and improve this situation?

OSIAS: Well, Kelly, as you may know, he actually -- Nichols is said to have moved from the new courthouse all the way over to the old courthouse. He went down eight flights of stairs. I mean, he definitely took some time that he could have used to actually escape.

He definitely was a man on a mission to go and shoot this judge. Again, these are alleged charges right now. But nevertheless, the issue of security is being raised.

He was escorted by one come woman, one female deputy. Why there weren't some other people around with her -- because this man was a 220-pound linebacker. And regardless of a female or not, perhaps there could have been more people escorting him. You know, it is certainly an accused right to not be shackled when they face jurors because they don't want to ascribe any kind of guilt to that person.

COHEN: And they -- Kimberly, they had special reason to suspect that this man might be violent. I mean, not only was he going to go on trial for rape, but the day before he had done something that should have made them a little suspicious.

OSIAS: Oh, that's exactly right, Elizabeth. In fact, he had homemade knives in his shoe, actually. I mean, oftentimes inmates do that sort of thing. But nevertheless, certainly they did have that hint, that foreshadowing that perhaps he was dangerous.

The attorney that was actually supposed to represent him in a rape trial that he was supposed to deal with before actually sort of alluded to the fact that he was appearing somewhat unusual and a bit crazy in his demeanor.

MALVEAUX: Kimberly, I know there was another case you covered that really attracted so much attention around the country, perhaps unfairly because of the pajama bottoms. But everybody -- Michael Jackson, I mean, what happened that day? What was going on?

OSIAS: Well, Suzanne, hat's a little bit of levity, at least, taking a shift, at least in his appearance. But he came to court late, actually, and, of course, quite a circus around that because he appeared finally.

The judge gave about an hour delay, an hour respite because apparently Michael Jackson, his attorney was saying that he had some serious back problems. But yet, he walked out of that ATV on his own power, despite the fact that when they lifted up the trunk you could see a wheelchair in there. And we all thought, oh my goodness, they're going to bring a wheelchair and he's going to actually get wheeled in.

But then Michael Jackson, for his part, sort of turned to the right, turned to the left, greeted his fans, and then went into the courthouse. But his hair was askew, he looked somewhat disheveled and really wasn't responsive.

HAYS: Kimberly?

OSIAS: Yes?

HAYS: Is there some sense that this -- the testimony this week is getting to Michael Jackson, that having to listen to his accuser describe alleged molestation is just taking its toll and he doesn't want to be in the courtroom? This is tough stuff. How do you think it stacks up at week's end?

OSIAS: Well, yes. I mean, he's definitely a frail individual. And you can see that it is.

I mean, he definitely has presented that sort of aura, at least court observers are certainly saying that. And interestingly when his accuser, this young boy, this 15-year-old takes the stand, Michael in the past has taken off his sunglasses that he has had on in the court and stared directly at him.

It's sort of been a stare-down between the two of them. So obviously this is critical in the case because if jurors, in fact, believe this 15-year-old boy, pretty much game over for Michael Jackson.

MALVEAUX: Well, Kimberly, thank you very much. Please keep us informed on all of those developments for the cases that you are covering this week.

Now, from the crime beat to the big international policy story of the week, the U.S. and its allies split on Iraq, may be coming together on Iran.

And still ahead, how men and women see faces and world differently.

And later in the hour, on "What's Her Story?" feature, this week on a high-profile college president out of a job.

All ahead, all ON THE STORY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I look forward to working with our are European friends to make it abundantly clear to the Iranian regime that the free world will not tolerate them having a nuclear weapon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: President Bush Friday talking tough about Iran, but at the same time signaling new unity with European allies.

Welcome back. I'm Suzanne Malveaux.

And, of course, that was really kind of an extraordinary development over the week, just the position on Iran.

COHEN: Right, Suzanne. We just heard President Bush talk about our European friends. Things haven't always been so friendly between the U.S. and Europe. Are the two going to be able to present a unified front against Iran?

MALVEAUX: Well, here's what happened. It was really interesting, because I talked with a senior administration official who said, "Look, please don't read this as a shift in U.S.-Iranian policy. We are not giving the Iranians these carrots. We are giving the Europeans something to work with to negotiate with the Iranians."

But make no mistake, it was a huge shift in policy when it came to dealing with Iran. And essentially it came out of those meeting that President Bush had with Chirac, with Schroeder, with Blair in Europe just a couple of weeks ago. They said to him -- they turned to him and said, we want some things. We need some things to make sure that Iran comes back to the table and negotiates with us. We don't have enough.

So they asked for two things. They asked the U.S. to drop its objection to its application for the WTO, World Trade Organization. And then also to allow these kind of spare parts for its aircraft to supply that.

Bush said, yes, I will go ahead and do that, but I want something in exchange. The Europeans said, OK, we'll send -- we'll refer them to the U.N. Security Council if it ends up that they don't comply.

So, I mean, the big question here is what is Iran going to do? It's now in their hands.

HAYS: So what happens next? I mean, it is in their hands, and now they can't say, well, you are not giving us enough, we won't trade a lion for a mouse, et cetera. What happens now?

MALVEAUX: Well, here's the thing, is that what they're saying is that there are a couple of things that they didn't resolve. One is a timetable. I mean, how long are they going to actually allow them to have these discussions to continue?

I mean, this is something that they've been waiting for. And they say -- and the WTO, by the way, that objection was really -- that was very significant, because the U.S. has objected 20 times to allowing them to enter that organization. So they said, OK, we'll go ahead and allow that.

But how fast are they going to move? And also, whether or not Iran is really going to be able to comply, because it's going to take perhaps months, perhaps years for them to make those kinds of reforms to get in that world organization. We have seen it with China, we see it with Russia. So there are some who really believe this is not going to move very fast.

WALLACE: You know, you said the senior administration official says no shift here. The White House, of course, all White Houses, never want to acknowledge any shift. You know, this is always Plan A. But clearly, as you said, a shift.

What about behind the scenes? There has to be some debate going on, because there are parts of the administration, more of a hard-line approach, that probably didn't want to see this come.

MALVEAUX: Right. And what they're saying -- and this is actually what -- what -- when it shifted, because some of these people are saying, look, you know, we really don't believe that Iran is ever going to comply. We really don't think it's going to happen. So why don't we go ahead and do this: why don't we go ahead comply, give the Europeans what they want?

And they call it chips to play with in negotiations, not the carrots. They don't want to call them "carrots." But chips to play with, so we can actually prove that Iran will never comply.

That's the whole idea from those hard-liners, from those hawks who say, we don't think it's ever going to happen, let's prove to the world it's not going to happen. We will give them an offer here and let's see if they do anything. They're not going to comply. Then we hit them back, go back to the U.N. Security Council and we hit them with economic sanctions. At least we can show the world, hey, you know, we agreed with the Europeans, we cooperated, now look what's happened.

COHEN: So, Suzanne, on another story, are we still going to be seeing Condi in 2008? Is she going to have a campaign of her own?

WALLACE: Oh, we love this story.

MALVEAUX: And those outfits, you know? Wouldn't that be lovely if the president -- if she as a president wore those outfits? I'm telling you.

But it was really kind of amazing the speculation that -- in Washington it is really incredible. People want to see a showdown between Secretary Rice and Senator Hillary Clinton.

WALLACE: Girl power. Girl power. I love it.

MALVEAUX: Absolutely.

WALLACE: Bring it on.

MALVEAUX: Here's what she said this mornings earlier today about that prospect.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, SECRETARY OF STATE: I don't want to run for president of the United States.

TIM RUSSERT, "MEET THE PRESS": I will not run?

RICE: I do not intend to run for -- no, I will not run for president of the United States? How's that? I don't know how many ways to say no in this town.

RUSSERT: Period. Period.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: So for now. "I will not run" for now.

HAYS: Yes, but Hillary Clinton has been saying the same thing, and we know she is quietly lining up her forces.

MALVEAUX: Absolutely. I know. I know.

Well, it -- but it is interesting, too, to see how she's kind of -- both of them have moved their positions, or at least been more vocal about their positions. We see Senator Clinton, as you know, of course, talking about her position on pro-choice, but at the same time a little bit more conservative, saying, well, I understand the other side, the pro-life side. We hear Secretary Rice earlier today and yesterday talking about, well, I -- you know, I'm kind of pro-choice. So these two are merging together, coming closer together. Both of them, it looks like, trying to win the same audience.

WALLACE: We love it. We love it.

(CROSSTALK)

WALLACE: Well, from the incumbent president to a former Bill Clinton back on the operating table this week, we are back on that story right after this.

Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am very pleased to let you know that former President Clinton underwent successful surgery this morning. Senator Clinton and Chelsea arrived with him. They are with him now. He is awake, he was resting comfortably.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: And that was the president of New York Presbyterian Hospital with the first update on former President Bill Clinton's operation on Thursday. The latest word, he is resting comfortably. He was actually getting around the hospital and walking a little bit.

So welcome back. I'm Kelly Wallace, and we're back ON THE STORY.

MALVEAUX: I can only imagine what they're like at the hospital. He must be doing rounds, laps already around the hallways.

WALLACE: He is not going to be taking his time, exactly. His aides did say that he did get up on Friday and was starting to walk. Like you said, making rounds around the hospital.

I guess it should be about a total of three to 10 days he's in the hospital. But after that, about four to six weeks of recovery, where he won't be able to do any travel really. He'll have to be in his Chappaqua home. But his aides are already getting memos and correspondence ready to be sending his way.

MALVEAUX: What can we expect from him? I know I had actually seen him a couple of months ago in New York at a dinner. And it seemed like when he was up, he was up, he was very lively, very vibrant, and then he got tired really quickly.

What do we expect with his schedule? Do we expect to see him, to see him out and about? WALLACE: You do. And it is interesting watching him over the six months since his heart bypass surgery, because he sort of got out there on the road for John Kerry about seven weeks after his heart bypass and kept up a pretty robust schedule.

When he started walking and walking uphill, he was noticing a little shortness of breath. And he went to the doctor before he was going to go to this -- on this Asia trip with former President Bush and this is where they diagnosed the problem. They say, interestingly enough, after having this procedure, which is very rare, he should be in even better shape in terms of his breathing capacity.

So they say, you know, he will get back to normal. He'll be doing a lot on tsunami relief, his AIDS foundation, touring the country, touring the world. So they expect him to be fully back to his old stuff.

COHEN: Kelly, have you heard any talk that perhaps Clinton got too robust too quickly after that September surgery?

WALLACE: Elizabeth, and you know as a medical correspondent, it really was the first question that we all had after hearing about this. This was, could his robust schedule, all his activity over the past several weeks and months be part of the problem?

Doctors say no. And the former President Bush and the former President Bill Clinton tried to do their best to sort of downplay this as well. Take a listen when they were at the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM J. CLINTON, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is no big deal. And I -- you know, I felt well enough to go to Asia to try to keep up with President Bush.

GEORGE H. W. BUSH, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You should have seen him going town to town, country to country. The Energizer Bunny here. He killed me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: I don't know about you guys. I can't get enough of watching these two men together, these former rivals, now good friends. Former President Bush calling him the "Energizer Bunny." Bill Clinton saying, "I can't keep up with this guy."

They are quite funny.

HAYS: But Bill Clinton, of course, I mean, he cannot stop talking about the events of the day, Iraq, timetable for withdrawal. And people are kind of wondering, to what extent is this a subtle beginning of the campaign for Hillary, recasting them both, but particularly her as right down the road centrist?

WALLACE: It was so interesting watching them, and you obviously see them at the White House taking questions. First of all, former President Bush would answer a question in 15 seconds. Bill Clinton would go on for about...

(CROSSTALK)

WALLACE: Some things don't change. But when he was asked about the Iraq elections, and he said big support for them, he said there should be no call for a timetable to pull U.S. troops out, well, a lot of people, conservative analysts and pundits, are saying whoa, is he trying to help kind of move his wife to the center with his words, his actions, spending so much time with the Bush family, the current president and the former president, does that help? It remains to be seen what will happen, the political implications of this.

MALVEAUX: And I also imagine, too, there's some speculation about, you know, why -- everybody just loves to hear Clinton. You know, everybody flocks to him.

How is that really framing the debate? And is it even appropriate that we should talk so much or hear so much from him? Because he does have a certain point of view, and whether or not that puts the Bush administration kind of in the shadows.

WALLACE: Well, you know, that's a great question, actually. And it's hard to say.

You know, you do. Everybody, we sort of all cover him. He seems to -- I was telling someone when we were doing the story last week, I said, "My goodness, former President Clinton gets in the news no matter what."

You know, there they are at the White House to talk about tsunami relief. President Bush to kind of cheer on what the former presidents have been doing. And news about his surgery comes out.

But, you know, you have to watch it. I think that Hillary Clinton is going to be a formidable candidate should she ever decide to run for the presidency. Many people think so.

But at the same time, there is going to be a strong opposition no matter what, no matter whether Bill Clinton is out there talking, not matter what she's saying. Some would argue even having Bill Clinton talk and make these statements could even empower conservatives more. So, you know, it's early on and we'll just have to watch.

HAYS: But talking about campaigns makes me think of advertising and another story that you were on this week that had to deal with people...

WALLACE: Very good segue.

HAYS: ... renting out parts of their bodies for advertisement. This includes a pregnant woman who had some extra space to sell. Here's Kelly Wallace on this very interesting story.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE (voice-over): She rented her pregnant belly to GoldenPalace.com, an online gambling site. The one-time model then modeled her new belly at the Daytona 500.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Actually, I did it because I'm a single mother. My child's father left me within days of finding out I was pregnant. And I honestly needed the money.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It won't be freakish when Leonard DiCaprio puts a Pepsi logo on his forehead during the Oscars. It won't be freakish at all.

WALLACE (on camera): Do you see that happening someday?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One day?

WALLACE: You do?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It will happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: All right. Well, some people think it's hard to believe that we will ever see Leonard DiCaprio putting a Pepsi logo. But this is getting more and more momentum.

And it's all part of a growing trend where you are seeing ads in unlikely places, on trains. There's a New York City subway train, ads everywhere for "Deadwood." It's almost converted into a saloon. And someone telling me ads on urinals. I can't...

HAYS: It's a captive audience. It was a big deal when the jockeys in the Kentucky Derby got to wear advertisements on their silks. So it is a -- it is a growing trend.

Well, we're back on the story of the rest of the week's economic news, why we saw new worries about highest interest rates, higher inflation, higher energy prices.

Also ahead, protesters on the march in Lebanon in recent days. Our Arab affairs editor Octavia Nasr talks about what's at stake for that country and for that region.

That's all coming up all ON THE STORY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our prices at the gas pump and rising home heating bills, the possibility of blackout are legitimate concerns for all Americans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYS: Indeed. President Bush echoing the concerns of many consumers that those numbers are rolling faster and faster on the gas pump with even higher prices predicted for summer.

Welcome back. I'm Kathleen Hays and we are ON THE STORY.

WALLACE: So, Kathleen, bad news for drivers this summer, bad news though for flyers too, right?

HAYS: Look, the airlines are hurting so badly, you know. Half of them are in bankruptcy and trying to get out and these higher fuel costs translate directly into higher jet fuel costs.

Interesting there's even a sense that we're starting to see an impact on drivers because, you know, most have a vision of the Americans saying, look, I'll pay even $2.15 a gallon this summer. That's what the government is predicting because I want to drive my SUV.

But some of the experts are saying at the very least, and in fact I was talking to a train conductor yesterday, when I was on my to Washington from New York, who said he had switched from a Suburban to an Explorer and experts saying we are starting to see that impact ever so slightly starting to bite.

And the problem is that, you know, years ago when oil prices went through the roof there was an oil embargo that took them up to an inflation-adjusted $3.00 a gallon. This is a very different situation. There's not an embargo that's going to go away and bring oil prices, you know, tumbling down hugely lower.

It's rising demand around the world and now financial markets saying, hey, we can make money by pushing that price up. So, it looks like these high prices are here to stay for a while.

COHEN: And, Kathleen, have the prices ever been this high before or is this going to be a new record high what they're predicting for the summer?

HAYS: In terms of dollars terms don't adjust for inflation. This will be a record high. Again, if you adjust for inflation and you say, oh well, again back in the '80s they would be higher.

I think another concern, if we want to go back to the future and wonder what kind of worries we should have, are we going to have a recession because of high oil prices?

Are we going to have rising inflation and rising interest rates because of higher energy prices? You know last year the economy was weaker so people worried more about the impact on the consumer slowing things down.

This week -- this year, the economy is a little stronger, higher jobs. People think maybe those prices get passed through to the consumer if it's inflation than higher rates. That doesn't just hurt us at the gas pump then. It could hurt us when we go to get a mortgage.

MALVEAUX: And, Kathleen, we heard from the president this week as well. He kind of dusted off his energy policy once again and this is something he brought up four years ago he was campaigning for and it doesn't really seem to have very much of an appetite, at least in Congress, his energy policy to push it forward.

Even this, you know, controversial drilling in Alaska, a wildlife refuge, do you think that there's any kind of traction on Wall Street for taking a second look at the president's plan to say, look, perhaps this will have an impact on gas prices?

HAYS: People are watching but, again, I think they don't see the politics lining up yet to get anything passed and certainly even some of the parts of this bill that would point more towards alternative sources of energy.

Now, we've seen hybrid cars doing better. We've seen some of the companies that produce these other kinds of gas, other kinds of engines doing better but I think it's still a wait and see because the president has so much on his plate.

Meanwhile, I think people are concerned though about the squeeze on the middle class because even though jobs are growing faster and the economy has been better, we haven't seen wages growing faster. So, you know, maybe we'll see inflation but for some people this will mean less spending power and it could be the worst of both worlds for some families.

WALLACE: Picking up on that, the middle class, because it was very interesting to watch bankruptcy legislation passing and moving through Congress this week but at least getting a sense from you some thinking this legislation is not going to be good for us.

HAYS: Well, the consumer advocates say this is a real stinker of a bill.

WALLACE: Why?

HAYS: Because what the credit card companies and the banks have been arguing for years is, they've tried for nearly a decade to get this passed, is that there are -- people exploit the system. They wantonly run up big credit card bills and then they laugh all the way to the bank and declare bankruptcy.

A recent study from Harvard showed that, in fact, about half of the bankruptcies occur after a family is hit with a big medical bill. They occur when one of the spouses loses a job, when there's a divorce.

And, if this was hurting the credit card companies so much, why did they make $30 billion in profits last year? The critics say a lot of those profits have gone straight to the pockets of people in Congress and that this bill has a lot to do with big business getting a big victory.

If you're in financial trouble and you think you need to declare bankruptcy perhaps, do it now. There will be a six-month window where you can still do it without strings attached. When this bill, if it becomes law, and again if you don't like the bill you better, you know, find your representative and write them fast because the House is supposed to clear this pretty soon.

There will be a means test. There will be many more strings attached. Meanwhile, they didn't make it harder for wealthy people to shelter their assets in bankruptcy. Those amendments were considered by the Senate and rejected.

WALLACE: Viewers are going to be outraged a little bit about that.

Well, the economy -- from the economy moving to another story, the Middle East. What is going on, on the ground, in Lebanon? We're going to check in with our Octavia Nasr, who is in Beirut. We'll be with her right after this. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: All Syrian military forces and intelligence personnel must withdraw before the Lebanese elections for those elections to be free and fair.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: President Bush hammering home the point he has made repeatedly. Syrian forces, all of them, must leave Lebanon. Hundreds of thousands of people in Lebanon have been on the march in recent days. More rallies are coming as soon as tomorrow.

Welcome back. We are ON THE STORY. And, our Arab Affairs Editor Octavia Nasr is ON THE STORY right now in Lebanon and joins us from Beirut, Octavia, great to see you.

Question for you, since you've been on the ground since yesterday what is the mood? What is the mood you're picking up?

OCTAVIA NASR, CNN ARAB AFFAIRS EDITOR: Well, you've heard in the media the words "the revolution of the Cedars, the Cedar Revolution." That's exactly what we've been seeing.

Since we arrived yesterday everybody seems to be in -- when I say everybody I mean everybody from the taxi drivers to the hair stylists to the shoe shiner on the street, everybody is talking about this revolution that is taking place in Lebanon.

I'm standing here a few feet away from the square where the demonstrators have been sitting in for the last 24, 25 days non-stop, sitting in, in protest of Syria's presence in Lebanon, and also they're asking for the truth.

They want to know who killed, who was behind the assassination of the former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri. Tomorrow marks the one month anniversary of this assassination and the opposition here in Lebanon is planning a huge demonstration. They're getting ready as we speak.

I'm standing here. Right behind me is the prime minister's official office. This demonstration that we're talking about and the sit-in forced the prime minister to resign, him and his cabinet. It forces also the Syrian president to go on television and say that he is pulling his troops out of Lebanon.

So, these people are energized. They do understand and they do feel that the U.S. is behind them. The whole world is behind them it seems like and they are planning to take full advantage of that.

COHEN: Octavia, this revolution at this point involves demonstrations like the one we just saw. What are the chances that it will turn violent?

NASR: A lot of people are saying that there is a chance that these revolutions, that this revolution, these demonstrations will turn violent. But what happened is these people have been sitting in for the last 24, 25 days, no violence did take place.

These are unarmed people. They're civilians. They're people that are coming to the square that they're calling now the Liberty Square, the Freedom Square. It is the Martyr Square.

It's very symbolic for Lebanon. They're pouring in. Some of them are spending the night, not going home, and basically they do believe that if they keep their demonstration positive and peaceful, violence is not going to take hold.

Now, there were other demonstrations. The other ones were pro- Syria and they were called for and supported by the Hezbollah militia. This is the Shia militia here in Lebanon that is very pro-Syrian and they are armed and yet they didn't have any violence in the street.

You might be hearing in the background the music coming from Martyr Square. It has been like this since we arrived. It's going on non-stop. Sometimes it's less noisy and sometimes more noisy but we definitely expect tomorrow to be a big one.

Many people are going to show up. Some people are coming in tonight to spend the night because they are afraid that the roads are going to be blocked and they might not be able to make it tomorrow.

MALVEAUX: Octavia, the president has talked a lot about this and he really in many of his speeches takes the opportunity in some ways to take credit for what is happening where you are.

And it seems as if the Europeans and many people here give him that credit, give the administration that credit because they see what happened in Iraq with the elections.

What are the Lebanese people thinking about President Bush? Has his image changed in any way?

NASR: We asked some protesters today this very question and basically they're saying that they were very encouraged by what happened in Iraq, especially the elections. The fact that the Iraqis braved the violence and went to the polls and participated in free election energized the Lebanese people.

But they're very quick to tell you that you have to draw a line. Iraq is not Lebanon and basically they want to take full credit for what they're doing. They're saying "We have the Syrian occupation in Lebanon. We don't have a U.S. occupation."

They're very quick to point out that Iraq is still under the U.S. occupation and they are saying that they don't want what happened in Iraq to happen here, which means that they don't want the U.S. to come to Lebanon, rid the Lebanese of the Syrian occupation and then have free elections.

They are hoping that they are going to be able to push the Syrians out and change the government and find the truth about who killed the former prime minister and also have a free and independent country without the help of the U.S. militarily.

HAYS: But, OK, I think it's hard for many Americans to understand why anyone in Syria -- excuse me, in Lebanon, would support the Syrian troops there and I think they don't understand that Lebanon is a country like Iraq with different religious factions.

And, as you mentioned in passing, it's the Shia faction mainly that has this link to Syria and they are a formidable, they are a big part of the country. How does this play out?

NASR: Well, it's very important to understand that Syria came to Lebanon by invitation from the Lebanese themselves. The problem, as the Lebanese put it, is that Syria came in by invitation. Its role was done and Syria refused to leave.

There were several agreements that were signed between the Lebanese and the Syrian government that would have asked Syria to leave by now. Some say that Syria should have been out of Lebanon back in 1992 because the war ended in 1990.

So, what happened is that Syria has interests in Lebanon and, of course, Syria supports the militia that we're talking about, Hezbollah, which is a Shia militia. So, now the Lebanese are saying times have changed. They're saying thank you very much for Syria but it's time for Syria to go out.

COHEN: Octavia, thank you. We'll be watching for your reports in the coming days. But today, we would like to wish you Octavia Nasr a happy birthday. I wish you were here in Atlanta, so I could give you a big birthday hug. I've been told I'm not allowed to sing, so I won't sing, but thanks so much for joining us and happy birthday, Octavia.

NASR: Thank you guys. Thank you so much.

COHEN: Now, from the Middle East to another divide -- another divide is what we'll be talking about when we come back, this time not among countries but between the sexes, new information on how men and women view the world. I'm back on that story after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEONARD SAX, AUTHOR, "WHY GENDER MATTERS": What's the first thing you hear a teacher say in most of those classrooms? Please everybody sit down and be quiet. That's easier for most five and 6- year-old girls than it is for most five and 6-year-old boys.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: That was Dr. Leonard Sax, author of the book, "Why Gender Matters." What's the first thing you hear most teachers say in most of these classrooms? Please everybody sit down. That's what he tells us and for many of us that's pretty obvious. If you've ever been in a classroom with five and 6-year-old children, well you know that the girls often have an easier time sitting down than the boys.

HAYS: Elizabeth, for years, we've heard boys will be boys and that has kind of an old-fashioned tint and kind of the taint of political incorrectness. But when it comes to brain, this evidence you've been looking at, these studies, suggest maybe it's true because the brains are somewhat different between boys and girls. The boys do need their own classroom.

COHEN: Right. What scientists have done is they've done scans of male and female brains, both adults and they've also looked at some scans of children's brains and what they've seen is that there are actual physiological differences.

Now, not all scientists agree on this but many say, look, the corpus collosum, which is the area of the brain where that shares information between the two hemispheres, it's bigger in women, so women can process something in many different areas of the brain.

And that's why some scientists say women multitask better. Studies show that women are better at multitasking because they have more cooperation between the two hemispheres.

Men, on the other hand, have more activity in the spatial and mechanical centers and sometimes are better at those kinds of skills. Women more action in the emotional and the verbal centers of the brain, sometimes better at those skills. But, again, sometimes is the key. This isn't true of every single man and every single woman.

WALLACE: And, Elizabeth, obviously this whole issue getting so much attention because of the issue, Harvard University President Lawrence Summers raised in January where he said maybe suggesting there could be intrinsic aptitude differences between the sexes.

In connection with that, there are some researchers who say that perhaps women, reasons why women aren't doing better, let's just say in math or in science, studies show that women when they are taking tests or in classes by themselves with women only and not with boys or men they seem to do better when they're in a single sex class. What are you picking up on that?

COHEN: Right. Well, proponents of single sex education say that women or girls, rather, suffer from sort of a crisis of confidence, especially when they're around boys.

And so, if they're taking a test with boys, as you said, they just -- they'll doubt themselves more, whereas if they're just around other girls they'll have more confidence. There's a really fascinating study that looked at 11th graders who were very high achievers, all of them smart, the boys and the girls. When...

HAYS: Well, it looks like we've lost Elizabeth Cohen. That's disappointing. I love this story so, so much and, you know, she had another story. I don't know if we can roll this or not but a story she did this week about how men and women actually see things differently and it's kind of reflecting these brain differences. And we know she had this really wonderful interchange with one of our CNN anchors Anderson Cooper.

WALLACE: Yes, let's take -- can we roll that because it was really fun to watch? Let's see. Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COHEN: Take a look at that truck. It's on a slope. It's not moving and about half that white tank is filled with water. Which line below represents the water surface in the bank? If you could see the water, what would that line look like? So, you've got ten -- eight seconds rather. The clock is ticking.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, I think I have my answer. All right is it G?

COHEN: It is the line marked O. That is the one, so yes, you didn't get that one right.

COOPER: Yes, all right.

COHEN: Let's take a look at two faces. She's a little scary. Which of these faces is more sad than the other or are they equally sad?

COOPER: First of all, I don't think you should have used Lou Dobbs' face in this but anyway which one is more sad?

COHEN: More sad. You've got eight seconds or now a little bit less than that. Which one looks more sad?

COOPER: Neither looks happy, I got to tell you. It's like Lou talking about outsourcing. More sad?

COHEN: More sad. Your time is up, so obviously you didn't get that one.

(END VIDEOTAPE) COHEN: It was the lady on the left. She was the more sad one. And it's interesting because Anderson obviously couldn't get that one. I got that one immediately but I could not get that truck one and that sort of that's what scientists say are typical answers for men and women.

I could tell that the woman on the left was sadder and when I really looked at it. The truck one, what you're supposed to guess is if there were water in that tank what level would the water be at. And the answer is O. I thought it was A and then I thought it was E and then I...

MALVEAUX: Elizabeth, what is this supposed to show? And I know there was another part of the discussion too about the role of evolution that somehow that might play a part in how the brains are different?

COHEN: Right. What that's supposed to show is that men have more activity in the mechanical and spatial centers of the brain and some scientists say it allows them to picture things in space, to picture what something would look like if it were there.

So, you don't actually see the water but that men are better at sort of imagining what level it would be at and that women are better at picking up emotional cues like which of those two women is sadder.

HAYS: What's wrong with me because I couldn't tell? I couldn't tell who looked sadder. I thought it was the exact same picture just framed differently. They're really different, huh?

COHEN: Kathleen, I'm happy to say nothing is wrong with you.

WALLACE: All right. We'll be right back, more ON THE STORY after this. Don't go away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: A university president resigns under fire. What's her story? More when we return.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: Elizabeth Hoffman, what's her story? The University of Colorado president quit this week amidst criticism over a professor's remarks about 9/11 victims and the football team's recruiting practices.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In my discussions with President Hoffman in recent days, it was apparent to both of us that her support had been waning for some time. On Monday, President Hoffman realized the future of CU is far more important than any single individual.

ANNOUNCER: Earlier, ethnic studies Professor Ward Churchill caused an academic freedom uproar over an essay he wrote comparing some World Trade Center victims to Nazis.

And an investigation continues into whether the school lured prospective football players with alcohol and sex. Hoffman's been president of the university since 2000.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Thanks to my fabulous colleagues and thank you for watching ON THE STORY. We will be back next week.

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