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On the Story
Looking at the 2nd Anniversary of the Iraq War and the Legal Battle Over Terri Schiavo
Aired March 20, 2005 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning, everyone. I'm Tony Harris at the CNN Center in Atlanta. ON THE STORY begins right after this check of headlines "Now in the News."
The Terri Schiavo case is front and center on Capitol Hill today. Both houses of Congress are in session working on a deal that could lead to the reinsertion of the feeding tube removed by Schiavo's husband. President Bush is cutting short his stay in Crawford, Texas, to return to Washington to sign the emergency legislation.
The confessed killed of 9-year-old Jessica Lunsford is being held without bond. John Couey made his first court appearance about an hour ago. He hasn't been charged in the child's death yet, only with the probation violation and failure to comply with sex offender registration rules.
And in southern Japan, a strong earthquake kills at least one person and injures almost 400 more. Officials report blackouts, phone problems and water and gas main breaks.
Those are the headlines. I'm Tony Harris. CNN's ON THE STORY with Kelly Wallace starts right now.
KELLY WALLACE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And welcome to CNN's ON THE STORY, where our journalists have the inside word on the stories we covered this week, from the war in Iraq to the legal battle over Terri Schiavo. I'm Kelly Wallace, on the story of celebrities telling their stories. Can hero Ashley Smith stand up to the stresses of sudden fame?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: I'm Barbara Starr, on the story of marking the second anniversary of the Iraq war. Successes, failures, what's left to be done?
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I'm Dana Bash, on the story of President Bush changing his plans. In just a few hours, leaving Texas, going back to Washington at the White House where he hopes to sign legislation intended to reinsert Terri Schiavo's feeding tube.
KATHLEEN HAYS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Kathleen Hays, on the story of gas prices spinning higher on world markets and at the corner gas station. Also coming up, Congress takes a swing at baseball over the steroids scandal. We'll talk to "San Francisco Chronicle" columnist and Gwen Knapp.
And we'll go to western Iraq, where Jane Arraf is on the story of the dangerous work of finding insurgents. E-mail us at ONTHESTORY@CNN.com.
Now, straight to the Terri Schiavo story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL SCHIAVO, TERRI SCHIAVO'S HUSBAND: I won't give it up. Terri is my life. I'm going to carry out her wishes to the very end. This is what she wanted. It is not about the Schindlers, it's not about me, it's not about Congress.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: And that was Michael Schiavo saying it is his wife's wish that she be allowed to die. That feeding tube was removed from Terri Schiavo Friday, and her fate is now the center of a political, legal and emotional storm stretching from her hospice in Florida to the halls of Congress, to Texas, where President Bush has cut short his trip and is coming home.
We will go live to Florida in just a moment. But first to Dana Bash in Crawford, Texas.
And Dana, tell us how extraordinary this is, that the president would cut short his trip to come back to Washington. The U.S. Congress getting involved. All involving the case of one woman, a case that has been followed in the state courts for years.
BASH: Unprecedented, extraordinary. You name it, the word, and you can probably use it.
Look, I'm actually going to get on Air Force One as part of the press pool with President Bush in just a few hours, and this is information that we got really late last night. And it really came after it became clear that Congress was in session, in session on a weekend during recess. Both of those extraordinary in and of themselves, essentially trying to figure out a way to get legislation through, as you said, to affect just this one woman.
Members of Congress, Republicans and Democrats, say they believe that if there is a doubt that this -- that there -- that she is somebody who perhaps could survive, and should survive, that they should actually make that happen however possible. So when members of Congress agreed on this last night, the White House called us and said, look, the president thinks every moment counts, he's going to go back to Washington, he's going to wait at the White House, sign this piece of legislation.
And Kelly, this could happen in the middle of the night tonight. It just depends how quickly the debate goes in Congress. STARR: Now, Dana, as difficult a personal situation that this is for all of those family members involved, the arena has shifted somewhat in the last several days by becoming a political situation in Washington. Do the Republicans, does the president see a downside possibly down the road of such personal involvement in one family's situation?
BASH: Such an interesting question, Barbara, because the White House had been really careful to say much about the legal maneuvers until it became clear that it was going to be on the president's lap, that it was going to be on the president's desk. And he said he was going to sign it.
But in terms of the bigger picture, this is an issue that the president, his staff has called a culture of life issue. In fact, when Scott McClellan told us that he was going back, it's because he said the president thinks it's important to defend life. And that is really from their perspective what this is all about.
This has become a rallying cry for conservatives. They have been calling their lawmakers. They have been certainly getting in touch with the Republicans in Washington, saying that this is about the bigger life issue.
And this is just the latest example of how that so-called life issue isn't just about abortion. It's about a whole host of issues as we get into new technology and new things like stem cell research and things that perhaps years ago nobody even could have imagined.
So in terms of President Bush, this is something certainly that the social conservatives who got him elected, something that's very important to them. And he says it's important to him.
HAYS: Dana, it's interesting. In the past, you know, conservatives were known for saying that government should stay out of personal matters, they should stay out of family matters, they should stay out of states' rights matters. That seems to be turned on its head.
I'm curious about that aspect of this story. I'm also curious about where do Democrats stand in this? Are they hanging back, hoping -- or figuring they can't really jump on the bandwagon? Some of them are, though, aren't they?
BASH: The Democrats have been so fascinating to watch, Kathleen, because, first of all, some Democrats did make the point that Congress is very much overreaching here, that they have no business getting into -- into this kind of situation when you're talking about one specific life. I will tell you that they did have an impact on this compromise in Congress in that Republicans, mostly in the House, really wanted to make this broad, and to say that anybody in the situation that Terri Schiavo is in could have the potential to take the situation out of -- the case out of state court and put it into federal court. But mostly Democrats forced Republicans to say no, this is just specifically about Terri Schiavo's case and this does not set precedent. But on the Democrats, the thing that has been most interesting is the sound of silence. We have really not heard anything from Democrats, even probably the most liberal on this issue.
There are some, sort of socially liberal groups, say that they are not very happy with Democrats, that they are scared because they are trying to appeal to the conservatives in the so-called red states and that's why they're being quiet about this. And you even had Harry Reid, who actually happens to be an anti-abortion Democrat, negotiating this from his trip in Israel. So it's been interesting to watch the Democrats really not say very much on this issue, Kathleen.
WALLACE: Well, Dana, we're going to let you run. We know you have to catch up with Air Force One and President Bush. What a fascinating day it will be, and we'll be watching your report throughout the day, and tomorrow as well.
And we are also on the story outside the Florida hospice where Terri Schiavo is caught between life an death. Joining us now, Chris Hawes, reporter for Bay News 9.
Chris, thanks so much for joining us on ON THE STORY today. We definitely appreciate it.
CHRIS HAWES, REPORTER, BAY NEWS 9: My pleasure.
WALLACE: Give us a sense of -- give us a sense of the scene there. What is going on? How many demonstrators? What kind of protests are planned today?
HAWES: Well, right now, we are seeing about 20 demonstrators here in front of the hospice. A little bit earlier they held a worship service.
We know that a lot of them are, in fact, at church right now. They plan to come out here to the hospice after that. But I have to tell you, overall, this is really a smaller, quieter, calmer protest than what I saw back in 2003. That, of course, was the second time that they disconnected her feeding tube.
Back then, you saw almost a desperation to the protests. They were louder, they were really more confrontational.
We had protesters who would stand next to live shots and chant loudly, pray loudly. This time they just came to be a lot calmer, a lot more subdued, and actually friendlier with the media, offering them coffee and water. So really a contrast to what we saw last time.
STARR: Chris, what about Governor Bush there in Florida? We are not hearing so much from him in the last couple of days. And, of course, for years, he has been very personally involved in this matter.
HAWES: He became very personally involved back in 2003. Just to give you a little bit of history, that was when the family really appealed to him, asked him to please step in. And then from there, we saw the legislation that back in 2003 saved Terri Schiavo's life.
Now, this time around, I mean, he has spoken out about the issue, and he has said that if the legislature here is able to pass something else that would save her life, he is willing to sign that. I think that at this point, though, he's just waiting to see what Congress does.
HAYS: You know, Chris, we have some footage here of Terri's mom talking to reporters yesterday. We want to run that and then kind of get your reaction of what it's like covering this story, watching this family, watching what they're going through.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARY SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S MOTHER: I am begging Governor Bush and the politicians in Tallahassee, President Bush, the politicians in Washington, please, please, please save my little girl.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYS: Chris, is this the case of a woman, a family who cannot let go of their daughter who is in a persistent vegetative state? Or what do you know about what they're bringing to the table in terms of any possible hope for Terri Schiavo to recover?
HAWES: Well, of course their contention is that their daughter is not in a persistent vegetative state. That is something that they have said all along. So from their point of view, they now have a very brain-damaged daughter, but they believe that she is aware of her surroundings, and why they're fighting so hard.
Of course, Michael Schiavo, Terri Schiavo's husband and guardian, says, no, that's not true, she's in a persistent vegetative state. She's aware of nothing.
And incidentally, they had a trial in 2002, and at that time three out of five doctors who were brought in agreed that she was in a persistent vegetative state. But, I mean, at this point the family is just going on what they see when they're with her.
They say that she laughs, she cries. They feel like they're getting feedback from her. And I think everyone, regardless of the side that they're on, can understand at least where the family is coming from.
I mean, they don't want to let their daughter go, and they feel like they have some relationship with her right now. And obviously, they really want to hold on to that.
And, you know, I have to tell you, it's interesting covering the story, just kind of watching what's happened with the family. I mean, I can remember a few years ago where you weren't seeing this kind of national coverage, but now it's almost like they have become celebrities.
I mean, they're going on national talk shows. They've become almost symbolic leaders of the right. And I don't think that's something they would have ever sought out before. I mean, it's really changed their lives. These fairly ordinary people -- her brother is a schoolteacher -- that now they've just found themselves thrust into this position.
STARR: Well, Chris, we thank you. Some really important insights for the rest of us sitting here in Washington.
We will bring updates on the Schiavo case as they happen.
Up next, two years since the war in Iraq began. I'm back on that story in a moment.
Later in the hour, we'll go to western Iraq, where Jane Arraf is on the story of the hunt for insurgents.
And at the end of the hour, "What's Her Story?" feature, focusing on a woman and her sisters in Washington this week daring to challenge the Irish Republican Army.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our troops will come home when Iraq is capable of defending herself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: President Bush this week sticking to his guns as all of us mark the two-year anniversary of the start of the war in Iraq.
Welcome back. I'm Barbara Starr. We're ON THE STORY.
WALLACE: So, Barbara, what's the mood inside the Pentagon two years after the start of the war?
STARR: What was the most shocking to me was the dead silence. It was like no one was paying attention. It was like, oh, yeah...
WALLACE: Really? People just...
STARR: ... two years ago. There is, I think, some very conflicting perceptions at the highest levels of the military, which is things appear to be getting better in Iraq.
We have had the elections. The violence is certainly down against U.S. forces, though many Iraqis are still dying in violent attacks. But they are now so cautious about their optimism in the Pentagon, they've been down the road so many times.
WALLACE: So guarded?
STARR: So guarded that you almost have trouble finding a source who will come out and say, yes, things are getting better even though they appear to be. A lot of caution. HAYS: Let's take a look, Barbara. There's a story you filed at the end of the week. We want to take a look at how problems arrived quickly as the celebration over the coalition victory gave way to looting and violence. Let's take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STARR (voice-over): Almost nothing worked out the way the U.S. planned. Looting perhaps not taken seriously enough.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF STATE: Think what's happened in our cities when we have had riots and problems and looting. Stuff happens.
STARR: Insurgents, the next watch word, months of attacks by foreign fighters and Saddam loyalists. The most wanted man now a name everyone knows, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.
The lowest point, March 2004. U.S. contractors murdered. Their mutilated bodies hung from a bridge in Falluja. Another town's name etched in military history.
Two years on, more than 1,500 U.S. troops dead. More than 11,000 wounded.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: And for those who think, you know, the war is better, there is a lot of progress in Iraq. But, of course, a lot of families still suffering their losses from that war.
HAYS: It's almost mind-boggling to think that it's been two years. Because in a way it seems like yesterday. In a way it seems like it's been forever. And certainly, the administration's view is particularly, you know, with the elections behind it this nation, you know, first assembly meeting, that they are on track, Barbara.
You know, what is the -- what is the truth of that? What is the -- what's the part of the story that's important that they're not telling?
STARR: Well, I think there has been an extraordinarily interesting development in the Persian Gulf in the last 24 hours, a story not a lot of people are paying attention to, but it's very telling, a potential suicide car bomb attack in the Persian Gulf nation of Qatar. The Qatari authorities are already looking at the possibility the suicide bomb attack was the work of al Qaeda.
This is very interesting, because what military intelligence is saying is, two years later, as the situation has improved in Iraq, as it's improved in Afghanistan and Pakistan, they are very concerned that the fundamentalist movement is moving further south into the Persian Gulf, moving into Kuwait, moving into the Emirates, moving into these small Persian Gulf kingdoms which can be very vulnerable. And now we have seen a suicide car bomb attack in the last 24 hours in Qatar. We expect to hear later today from the government about whether it might have been the work of al Qaeda, but it casts a chill over what has been a very prosperous part of the Persian Gulf. So two years later, still lots of things to worry about.
WALLACE: Did you pick that up? We know you were there three times, as recently as Christmas. Did you pick this fear up on the ground? And any evidence of it anywhere else?
STARR: Absolutely. It's really one of the great sort of very not noticed themes of what is going on in the Persian Gulf.
Every military commander from the very top down that we speak to in that region says that is a concern. Most people have not noticed in the last several months the Kuwaitis had several run-ins. Their security forces with fundamentalists.
And Kathleen, as you know, once you put a chill over -- an economic chill because of security over that part of the world, oil, banking, real estate, development, it all becomes very fragile.
STARR: A very shaky time for the oil markets we're going to talk about a little bit later in the program.
But Barbara, it's interesting to me. We talk about the war, you talk about al Qaeda being suspected here. Now, President Bush's justification for the war was al Qaeda, 9/11, a link to Iraq. Hearkening back, you looked at another aspect of this 9/11 story that I think has caught a lot of peoples' attention, and you're sort of getting to the bottom of it.
STARR: A very interesting story. We profiled a man who put a flag up for auction on eBay, saying that it flew at the Pentagon on 9/11. The evidence is that perhaps it did not.
First of all, the families became very upset, the New York families, the Washington families, very upset that this type of thing is going up for auction, people trying to make money off of it, although the man said it was for cancer treatment. What struck me the most about this story is almost three-and-a-half years later, after being at the Pentagon that day, you think 9/11 is over. You think it's back in your mind, it's never going to really bother you again, it's over and done with.
And here's this story. And it just hits you right in the face.
Every indication and perhaps the strongest indication that this was not a truthful auction on eBay of a 9/11 piece of "memorabilia." The certificate of authenticity for this flag said it was on -- in honor of the 179 victim who died at the Pentagon that day. Anyone who was there will tell you 184 people died that day. Just one indicator of something you thought was back in your memory.
WALLACE: And also, another indication, because there were many stories about this gentleman. We even interviewed him on the CNN show "DAYBREAK" when all these stories were coming out. We talked to him about his illness, about how he didn't want to part with the flag. About how he wanted to hold on to it, but he needed the money for his cancer treatment. So it is just astounding on a lot of levels.
All right. Thanks, Barbara.
We are going to check in with Jane Arraf in western Iraq later in the hour, talking more about the war two years later.
But coming up next, how baseball came to Congress this week. "San Francisco Chronicle" columnist Gwen Knapp on how star sluggers struck out.
We are back on that story right after this. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK MCGWIRE, BASEBALL PLAYER: My lawyers have advised me that I cannot answer these questions without jeopardizing my friends, my family and myself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: And that is baseball superstar Mark McGwire. He's used to hitting them out of the park, but he was ducking some questions about steroids from a congressional committee Thursday.
Welcome back. We are ON THE STORY.
And joining us now, San Francisco columnist Gwen Knapp.
Gwen, thanks so much for being with us today.
So tell us about Mark McGwire. Did he really blow it big-time at this hearing on Thursday?
GWEN KNAPP, "SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE": I think he made a lot of public relations mistakes. I'm pretty sure he couldn't have answered those questions. But he would have been wiser to follow the example of his former teammate, Jason Giambi, who when he couldn't answer questions said, I'm sorry, and he repeatedly said that. And it would have been more in keeping with the way he started his statement, saying he felt really bad for the families who had lost sons to steroid use.
STARR: Gwen, it's just difficult to figure out whether you have any sympathy for these guys after watching this hearing for hours and hours. Is there a sense yet that Major League Baseball feels they have to respond to this? That they feel threatened, that they feel jeopardized, or do they feel this current program they have of escalating penalties for steroid abuse is enough and that's all they're going to do about it? KNAPP: Well, I think we have to see how they're going to respond to it. I'm sure on Thursday night they felt pretty bad about it. But they're maybe hoping it will fade away.
From a public relations standpoint, that was a disaster. Absolutely. Everybody involved, the officials, and some of the biggest icons of the sport, were really, really embarrassed on Thursday.
HAYS: But Gwen, you know, Congress is saying something has to be done and baseball has to step up to the plate and make sure that they have strict penalties, strict regulations against this or Congress is going to do something. But I put myself in a ballplayer's place, and I'm thinking, everybody knew this was going on.
Baseball, sort of a wink and a nod, look right past it. I mean, if I were them I would feel like this is so hypocritical. Now everyone is all up in arms about steroids, but they knew it was going on for years.
KNAPP: Well, I'm not sure that's exactly true. I think people -- first of all, the press didn't write about it. In fact, the press dodged it for a long time.
And, yes, I do think there were a lot of people in baseball who were looking the other way. But remember that the people who were doing it, who started doing it five or six years ago, they're not going to get kicked out of baseball. A lot of them are already out. It's about stopping it from continuing in the future.
WALLACE: Gwen, but where is the public outrage? Because that's so interesting.
It doesn't seem to be registering in a big way with the public. People are still going to ball games. Or are they? I mean, are you getting any sense that people are really up in arms about the steroids, Congress getting involved, the use of steroids in baseball?
KNAPP; Well, it's interesting. I have seen a change out here in San Francisco. We have been writing about this for a little over a year and a half since the BALCO story started. And I have seen a shift.
First people didn't want to believe it. Then they wanted to say, why should we care? We're seeing a lot more people who are actually angry. And part of that is how some of the baseball stars have responded to the accusations. And they've really -- they've looked pretty small.
STARR: Well, Gwen, now that it is all really coming out in public and all the laundry, dirty or not, is being hung out to dry, do you think that some of these records like Mark McGwire's homerun record, are they going to be erased from the record books? Is that going to be a penalty they're going to face?
KNAPP: No, I don't think that's going to happen. The East Germans years ago admitted that they had been using steroids when they set records and won gold medals back in the '70s and '80s, and nothing has happened there.
I think the most important thing, one of the things people keep talking about is what's going to happen with the records, who's going to the hall of fame? I think we need to start focusing on the health consequences and asking these guys, are you going to live to 50? I think that is a lot more important.
HAYS: And, of course, for the kids, you know, what was the statistics I saw this week, that one in four high school athletes now admits that he has used steroids? We're hearing about it in junior high school now. This is a very important story from that point of view, not for someone like Mark McGwire so much. He is done with baseball.
KNAPP: Right.
HAYS: In fact, let's listen to what a parent said about this in a hearing.
KNAPP: Well, it's interesting. One of the most compelling things (UNINTELLIGIBLE) of this, he didn't say it at the hearings, but he said that Jose Canseco's book was almost an advertisement for steroids. And in some ways, when you start talking about it and making it clear that these big sluggers probably have used this stuff, it's almost sending a message to more kids to use it, which means you have to come back with tough penalties so they'll know, if I do it, I'm going to be embarrassed on Capitol Hill. If I do it, I'm going to test positive and be suspended.
HAYS: That's an excellent point, that the kids have to see the message. Because obviously the ballplayers haven't necessarily gotten it.
Gwen Knapp, "San Francisco Chronicle," thank you so much. Come back and talk to us again. We have a feeling this story is not over yet.
Coming up, we're going to go back to Iraq. And CNN's Jane Arraf on the story of how the hunt for insurgents continues west of Baghdad.
We'll talk about the pitfalls of celebrity for hero Ashley Smith.
And I'm on the story of how gas prices pulled down car makers and investors this week.
Plus a check on what's making news right now, all coming up, all ON THE STORY.
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Aired March 20, 2005 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning, everyone. I'm Tony Harris at the CNN Center in Atlanta. ON THE STORY begins right after this check of headlines "Now in the News."
The Terri Schiavo case is front and center on Capitol Hill today. Both houses of Congress are in session working on a deal that could lead to the reinsertion of the feeding tube removed by Schiavo's husband. President Bush is cutting short his stay in Crawford, Texas, to return to Washington to sign the emergency legislation.
The confessed killed of 9-year-old Jessica Lunsford is being held without bond. John Couey made his first court appearance about an hour ago. He hasn't been charged in the child's death yet, only with the probation violation and failure to comply with sex offender registration rules.
And in southern Japan, a strong earthquake kills at least one person and injures almost 400 more. Officials report blackouts, phone problems and water and gas main breaks.
Those are the headlines. I'm Tony Harris. CNN's ON THE STORY with Kelly Wallace starts right now.
KELLY WALLACE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And welcome to CNN's ON THE STORY, where our journalists have the inside word on the stories we covered this week, from the war in Iraq to the legal battle over Terri Schiavo. I'm Kelly Wallace, on the story of celebrities telling their stories. Can hero Ashley Smith stand up to the stresses of sudden fame?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: I'm Barbara Starr, on the story of marking the second anniversary of the Iraq war. Successes, failures, what's left to be done?
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I'm Dana Bash, on the story of President Bush changing his plans. In just a few hours, leaving Texas, going back to Washington at the White House where he hopes to sign legislation intended to reinsert Terri Schiavo's feeding tube.
KATHLEEN HAYS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Kathleen Hays, on the story of gas prices spinning higher on world markets and at the corner gas station. Also coming up, Congress takes a swing at baseball over the steroids scandal. We'll talk to "San Francisco Chronicle" columnist and Gwen Knapp.
And we'll go to western Iraq, where Jane Arraf is on the story of the dangerous work of finding insurgents. E-mail us at ONTHESTORY@CNN.com.
Now, straight to the Terri Schiavo story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL SCHIAVO, TERRI SCHIAVO'S HUSBAND: I won't give it up. Terri is my life. I'm going to carry out her wishes to the very end. This is what she wanted. It is not about the Schindlers, it's not about me, it's not about Congress.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: And that was Michael Schiavo saying it is his wife's wish that she be allowed to die. That feeding tube was removed from Terri Schiavo Friday, and her fate is now the center of a political, legal and emotional storm stretching from her hospice in Florida to the halls of Congress, to Texas, where President Bush has cut short his trip and is coming home.
We will go live to Florida in just a moment. But first to Dana Bash in Crawford, Texas.
And Dana, tell us how extraordinary this is, that the president would cut short his trip to come back to Washington. The U.S. Congress getting involved. All involving the case of one woman, a case that has been followed in the state courts for years.
BASH: Unprecedented, extraordinary. You name it, the word, and you can probably use it.
Look, I'm actually going to get on Air Force One as part of the press pool with President Bush in just a few hours, and this is information that we got really late last night. And it really came after it became clear that Congress was in session, in session on a weekend during recess. Both of those extraordinary in and of themselves, essentially trying to figure out a way to get legislation through, as you said, to affect just this one woman.
Members of Congress, Republicans and Democrats, say they believe that if there is a doubt that this -- that there -- that she is somebody who perhaps could survive, and should survive, that they should actually make that happen however possible. So when members of Congress agreed on this last night, the White House called us and said, look, the president thinks every moment counts, he's going to go back to Washington, he's going to wait at the White House, sign this piece of legislation.
And Kelly, this could happen in the middle of the night tonight. It just depends how quickly the debate goes in Congress. STARR: Now, Dana, as difficult a personal situation that this is for all of those family members involved, the arena has shifted somewhat in the last several days by becoming a political situation in Washington. Do the Republicans, does the president see a downside possibly down the road of such personal involvement in one family's situation?
BASH: Such an interesting question, Barbara, because the White House had been really careful to say much about the legal maneuvers until it became clear that it was going to be on the president's lap, that it was going to be on the president's desk. And he said he was going to sign it.
But in terms of the bigger picture, this is an issue that the president, his staff has called a culture of life issue. In fact, when Scott McClellan told us that he was going back, it's because he said the president thinks it's important to defend life. And that is really from their perspective what this is all about.
This has become a rallying cry for conservatives. They have been calling their lawmakers. They have been certainly getting in touch with the Republicans in Washington, saying that this is about the bigger life issue.
And this is just the latest example of how that so-called life issue isn't just about abortion. It's about a whole host of issues as we get into new technology and new things like stem cell research and things that perhaps years ago nobody even could have imagined.
So in terms of President Bush, this is something certainly that the social conservatives who got him elected, something that's very important to them. And he says it's important to him.
HAYS: Dana, it's interesting. In the past, you know, conservatives were known for saying that government should stay out of personal matters, they should stay out of family matters, they should stay out of states' rights matters. That seems to be turned on its head.
I'm curious about that aspect of this story. I'm also curious about where do Democrats stand in this? Are they hanging back, hoping -- or figuring they can't really jump on the bandwagon? Some of them are, though, aren't they?
BASH: The Democrats have been so fascinating to watch, Kathleen, because, first of all, some Democrats did make the point that Congress is very much overreaching here, that they have no business getting into -- into this kind of situation when you're talking about one specific life. I will tell you that they did have an impact on this compromise in Congress in that Republicans, mostly in the House, really wanted to make this broad, and to say that anybody in the situation that Terri Schiavo is in could have the potential to take the situation out of -- the case out of state court and put it into federal court. But mostly Democrats forced Republicans to say no, this is just specifically about Terri Schiavo's case and this does not set precedent. But on the Democrats, the thing that has been most interesting is the sound of silence. We have really not heard anything from Democrats, even probably the most liberal on this issue.
There are some, sort of socially liberal groups, say that they are not very happy with Democrats, that they are scared because they are trying to appeal to the conservatives in the so-called red states and that's why they're being quiet about this. And you even had Harry Reid, who actually happens to be an anti-abortion Democrat, negotiating this from his trip in Israel. So it's been interesting to watch the Democrats really not say very much on this issue, Kathleen.
WALLACE: Well, Dana, we're going to let you run. We know you have to catch up with Air Force One and President Bush. What a fascinating day it will be, and we'll be watching your report throughout the day, and tomorrow as well.
And we are also on the story outside the Florida hospice where Terri Schiavo is caught between life an death. Joining us now, Chris Hawes, reporter for Bay News 9.
Chris, thanks so much for joining us on ON THE STORY today. We definitely appreciate it.
CHRIS HAWES, REPORTER, BAY NEWS 9: My pleasure.
WALLACE: Give us a sense of -- give us a sense of the scene there. What is going on? How many demonstrators? What kind of protests are planned today?
HAWES: Well, right now, we are seeing about 20 demonstrators here in front of the hospice. A little bit earlier they held a worship service.
We know that a lot of them are, in fact, at church right now. They plan to come out here to the hospice after that. But I have to tell you, overall, this is really a smaller, quieter, calmer protest than what I saw back in 2003. That, of course, was the second time that they disconnected her feeding tube.
Back then, you saw almost a desperation to the protests. They were louder, they were really more confrontational.
We had protesters who would stand next to live shots and chant loudly, pray loudly. This time they just came to be a lot calmer, a lot more subdued, and actually friendlier with the media, offering them coffee and water. So really a contrast to what we saw last time.
STARR: Chris, what about Governor Bush there in Florida? We are not hearing so much from him in the last couple of days. And, of course, for years, he has been very personally involved in this matter.
HAWES: He became very personally involved back in 2003. Just to give you a little bit of history, that was when the family really appealed to him, asked him to please step in. And then from there, we saw the legislation that back in 2003 saved Terri Schiavo's life.
Now, this time around, I mean, he has spoken out about the issue, and he has said that if the legislature here is able to pass something else that would save her life, he is willing to sign that. I think that at this point, though, he's just waiting to see what Congress does.
HAYS: You know, Chris, we have some footage here of Terri's mom talking to reporters yesterday. We want to run that and then kind of get your reaction of what it's like covering this story, watching this family, watching what they're going through.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARY SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S MOTHER: I am begging Governor Bush and the politicians in Tallahassee, President Bush, the politicians in Washington, please, please, please save my little girl.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYS: Chris, is this the case of a woman, a family who cannot let go of their daughter who is in a persistent vegetative state? Or what do you know about what they're bringing to the table in terms of any possible hope for Terri Schiavo to recover?
HAWES: Well, of course their contention is that their daughter is not in a persistent vegetative state. That is something that they have said all along. So from their point of view, they now have a very brain-damaged daughter, but they believe that she is aware of her surroundings, and why they're fighting so hard.
Of course, Michael Schiavo, Terri Schiavo's husband and guardian, says, no, that's not true, she's in a persistent vegetative state. She's aware of nothing.
And incidentally, they had a trial in 2002, and at that time three out of five doctors who were brought in agreed that she was in a persistent vegetative state. But, I mean, at this point the family is just going on what they see when they're with her.
They say that she laughs, she cries. They feel like they're getting feedback from her. And I think everyone, regardless of the side that they're on, can understand at least where the family is coming from.
I mean, they don't want to let their daughter go, and they feel like they have some relationship with her right now. And obviously, they really want to hold on to that.
And, you know, I have to tell you, it's interesting covering the story, just kind of watching what's happened with the family. I mean, I can remember a few years ago where you weren't seeing this kind of national coverage, but now it's almost like they have become celebrities.
I mean, they're going on national talk shows. They've become almost symbolic leaders of the right. And I don't think that's something they would have ever sought out before. I mean, it's really changed their lives. These fairly ordinary people -- her brother is a schoolteacher -- that now they've just found themselves thrust into this position.
STARR: Well, Chris, we thank you. Some really important insights for the rest of us sitting here in Washington.
We will bring updates on the Schiavo case as they happen.
Up next, two years since the war in Iraq began. I'm back on that story in a moment.
Later in the hour, we'll go to western Iraq, where Jane Arraf is on the story of the hunt for insurgents.
And at the end of the hour, "What's Her Story?" feature, focusing on a woman and her sisters in Washington this week daring to challenge the Irish Republican Army.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our troops will come home when Iraq is capable of defending herself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: President Bush this week sticking to his guns as all of us mark the two-year anniversary of the start of the war in Iraq.
Welcome back. I'm Barbara Starr. We're ON THE STORY.
WALLACE: So, Barbara, what's the mood inside the Pentagon two years after the start of the war?
STARR: What was the most shocking to me was the dead silence. It was like no one was paying attention. It was like, oh, yeah...
WALLACE: Really? People just...
STARR: ... two years ago. There is, I think, some very conflicting perceptions at the highest levels of the military, which is things appear to be getting better in Iraq.
We have had the elections. The violence is certainly down against U.S. forces, though many Iraqis are still dying in violent attacks. But they are now so cautious about their optimism in the Pentagon, they've been down the road so many times.
WALLACE: So guarded?
STARR: So guarded that you almost have trouble finding a source who will come out and say, yes, things are getting better even though they appear to be. A lot of caution. HAYS: Let's take a look, Barbara. There's a story you filed at the end of the week. We want to take a look at how problems arrived quickly as the celebration over the coalition victory gave way to looting and violence. Let's take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STARR (voice-over): Almost nothing worked out the way the U.S. planned. Looting perhaps not taken seriously enough.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF STATE: Think what's happened in our cities when we have had riots and problems and looting. Stuff happens.
STARR: Insurgents, the next watch word, months of attacks by foreign fighters and Saddam loyalists. The most wanted man now a name everyone knows, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.
The lowest point, March 2004. U.S. contractors murdered. Their mutilated bodies hung from a bridge in Falluja. Another town's name etched in military history.
Two years on, more than 1,500 U.S. troops dead. More than 11,000 wounded.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: And for those who think, you know, the war is better, there is a lot of progress in Iraq. But, of course, a lot of families still suffering their losses from that war.
HAYS: It's almost mind-boggling to think that it's been two years. Because in a way it seems like yesterday. In a way it seems like it's been forever. And certainly, the administration's view is particularly, you know, with the elections behind it this nation, you know, first assembly meeting, that they are on track, Barbara.
You know, what is the -- what is the truth of that? What is the -- what's the part of the story that's important that they're not telling?
STARR: Well, I think there has been an extraordinarily interesting development in the Persian Gulf in the last 24 hours, a story not a lot of people are paying attention to, but it's very telling, a potential suicide car bomb attack in the Persian Gulf nation of Qatar. The Qatari authorities are already looking at the possibility the suicide bomb attack was the work of al Qaeda.
This is very interesting, because what military intelligence is saying is, two years later, as the situation has improved in Iraq, as it's improved in Afghanistan and Pakistan, they are very concerned that the fundamentalist movement is moving further south into the Persian Gulf, moving into Kuwait, moving into the Emirates, moving into these small Persian Gulf kingdoms which can be very vulnerable. And now we have seen a suicide car bomb attack in the last 24 hours in Qatar. We expect to hear later today from the government about whether it might have been the work of al Qaeda, but it casts a chill over what has been a very prosperous part of the Persian Gulf. So two years later, still lots of things to worry about.
WALLACE: Did you pick that up? We know you were there three times, as recently as Christmas. Did you pick this fear up on the ground? And any evidence of it anywhere else?
STARR: Absolutely. It's really one of the great sort of very not noticed themes of what is going on in the Persian Gulf.
Every military commander from the very top down that we speak to in that region says that is a concern. Most people have not noticed in the last several months the Kuwaitis had several run-ins. Their security forces with fundamentalists.
And Kathleen, as you know, once you put a chill over -- an economic chill because of security over that part of the world, oil, banking, real estate, development, it all becomes very fragile.
STARR: A very shaky time for the oil markets we're going to talk about a little bit later in the program.
But Barbara, it's interesting to me. We talk about the war, you talk about al Qaeda being suspected here. Now, President Bush's justification for the war was al Qaeda, 9/11, a link to Iraq. Hearkening back, you looked at another aspect of this 9/11 story that I think has caught a lot of peoples' attention, and you're sort of getting to the bottom of it.
STARR: A very interesting story. We profiled a man who put a flag up for auction on eBay, saying that it flew at the Pentagon on 9/11. The evidence is that perhaps it did not.
First of all, the families became very upset, the New York families, the Washington families, very upset that this type of thing is going up for auction, people trying to make money off of it, although the man said it was for cancer treatment. What struck me the most about this story is almost three-and-a-half years later, after being at the Pentagon that day, you think 9/11 is over. You think it's back in your mind, it's never going to really bother you again, it's over and done with.
And here's this story. And it just hits you right in the face.
Every indication and perhaps the strongest indication that this was not a truthful auction on eBay of a 9/11 piece of "memorabilia." The certificate of authenticity for this flag said it was on -- in honor of the 179 victim who died at the Pentagon that day. Anyone who was there will tell you 184 people died that day. Just one indicator of something you thought was back in your memory.
WALLACE: And also, another indication, because there were many stories about this gentleman. We even interviewed him on the CNN show "DAYBREAK" when all these stories were coming out. We talked to him about his illness, about how he didn't want to part with the flag. About how he wanted to hold on to it, but he needed the money for his cancer treatment. So it is just astounding on a lot of levels.
All right. Thanks, Barbara.
We are going to check in with Jane Arraf in western Iraq later in the hour, talking more about the war two years later.
But coming up next, how baseball came to Congress this week. "San Francisco Chronicle" columnist Gwen Knapp on how star sluggers struck out.
We are back on that story right after this. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK MCGWIRE, BASEBALL PLAYER: My lawyers have advised me that I cannot answer these questions without jeopardizing my friends, my family and myself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: And that is baseball superstar Mark McGwire. He's used to hitting them out of the park, but he was ducking some questions about steroids from a congressional committee Thursday.
Welcome back. We are ON THE STORY.
And joining us now, San Francisco columnist Gwen Knapp.
Gwen, thanks so much for being with us today.
So tell us about Mark McGwire. Did he really blow it big-time at this hearing on Thursday?
GWEN KNAPP, "SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE": I think he made a lot of public relations mistakes. I'm pretty sure he couldn't have answered those questions. But he would have been wiser to follow the example of his former teammate, Jason Giambi, who when he couldn't answer questions said, I'm sorry, and he repeatedly said that. And it would have been more in keeping with the way he started his statement, saying he felt really bad for the families who had lost sons to steroid use.
STARR: Gwen, it's just difficult to figure out whether you have any sympathy for these guys after watching this hearing for hours and hours. Is there a sense yet that Major League Baseball feels they have to respond to this? That they feel threatened, that they feel jeopardized, or do they feel this current program they have of escalating penalties for steroid abuse is enough and that's all they're going to do about it? KNAPP: Well, I think we have to see how they're going to respond to it. I'm sure on Thursday night they felt pretty bad about it. But they're maybe hoping it will fade away.
From a public relations standpoint, that was a disaster. Absolutely. Everybody involved, the officials, and some of the biggest icons of the sport, were really, really embarrassed on Thursday.
HAYS: But Gwen, you know, Congress is saying something has to be done and baseball has to step up to the plate and make sure that they have strict penalties, strict regulations against this or Congress is going to do something. But I put myself in a ballplayer's place, and I'm thinking, everybody knew this was going on.
Baseball, sort of a wink and a nod, look right past it. I mean, if I were them I would feel like this is so hypocritical. Now everyone is all up in arms about steroids, but they knew it was going on for years.
KNAPP: Well, I'm not sure that's exactly true. I think people -- first of all, the press didn't write about it. In fact, the press dodged it for a long time.
And, yes, I do think there were a lot of people in baseball who were looking the other way. But remember that the people who were doing it, who started doing it five or six years ago, they're not going to get kicked out of baseball. A lot of them are already out. It's about stopping it from continuing in the future.
WALLACE: Gwen, but where is the public outrage? Because that's so interesting.
It doesn't seem to be registering in a big way with the public. People are still going to ball games. Or are they? I mean, are you getting any sense that people are really up in arms about the steroids, Congress getting involved, the use of steroids in baseball?
KNAPP; Well, it's interesting. I have seen a change out here in San Francisco. We have been writing about this for a little over a year and a half since the BALCO story started. And I have seen a shift.
First people didn't want to believe it. Then they wanted to say, why should we care? We're seeing a lot more people who are actually angry. And part of that is how some of the baseball stars have responded to the accusations. And they've really -- they've looked pretty small.
STARR: Well, Gwen, now that it is all really coming out in public and all the laundry, dirty or not, is being hung out to dry, do you think that some of these records like Mark McGwire's homerun record, are they going to be erased from the record books? Is that going to be a penalty they're going to face?
KNAPP: No, I don't think that's going to happen. The East Germans years ago admitted that they had been using steroids when they set records and won gold medals back in the '70s and '80s, and nothing has happened there.
I think the most important thing, one of the things people keep talking about is what's going to happen with the records, who's going to the hall of fame? I think we need to start focusing on the health consequences and asking these guys, are you going to live to 50? I think that is a lot more important.
HAYS: And, of course, for the kids, you know, what was the statistics I saw this week, that one in four high school athletes now admits that he has used steroids? We're hearing about it in junior high school now. This is a very important story from that point of view, not for someone like Mark McGwire so much. He is done with baseball.
KNAPP: Right.
HAYS: In fact, let's listen to what a parent said about this in a hearing.
KNAPP: Well, it's interesting. One of the most compelling things (UNINTELLIGIBLE) of this, he didn't say it at the hearings, but he said that Jose Canseco's book was almost an advertisement for steroids. And in some ways, when you start talking about it and making it clear that these big sluggers probably have used this stuff, it's almost sending a message to more kids to use it, which means you have to come back with tough penalties so they'll know, if I do it, I'm going to be embarrassed on Capitol Hill. If I do it, I'm going to test positive and be suspended.
HAYS: That's an excellent point, that the kids have to see the message. Because obviously the ballplayers haven't necessarily gotten it.
Gwen Knapp, "San Francisco Chronicle," thank you so much. Come back and talk to us again. We have a feeling this story is not over yet.
Coming up, we're going to go back to Iraq. And CNN's Jane Arraf on the story of how the hunt for insurgents continues west of Baghdad.
We'll talk about the pitfalls of celebrity for hero Ashley Smith.
And I'm on the story of how gas prices pulled down car makers and investors this week.
Plus a check on what's making news right now, all coming up, all ON THE STORY.
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