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Thousands of U.S. Troops May Be Returning Home From Iraq; Battle Over Terri Schiavo Hits Collective Nerve in America

Aired March 27, 2005 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning, everyone. I'm Tony Harris at the CNN Center in Atlanta. CNN's ON THE STORY begins in a moment. But first, headlines "Now in the News."
Terri Schiavo is in her final hours of life. That's according to a spokesman for her parents and siblings. He says Schiavo is said to be showing signs of starvation and dehydration. Her feeding tube was removed March 18.

The family is pleading with Florida governor Jeb Bush to intervene. If he doesn't, doctors have said Schiavo will likely will die by Friday.

The thousands gathered for Easter mass at St. Peter's Square received a silent blessing from Pope John Paul II from his window. The ailing 84-year-old pontiff followed along as a cardinal read the blessing. It was the first time in his 26-year papacy that the pope did not celebrate the mass in person.

The condition of Monaco's Prince Rainier has improved. A palace spokesman tells CNN Rainier has regained consciousness and the functions of his vital organs have stabilized. The 81-year-old monarch was admitted to the hospital earlier this month for a lung infection.

More news in 30 minutes. CNN's ON THE STORY starts right now.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to CNN's ON THE STORY, where our journalists have the inside word on the stories we covered this week. I'm Barbara Starr, on the story of how changing conditions in Iraq could mean the start of thousands of U.S. troops returning home.

ROSE ARCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Rose Arce, in New York, on the story of how the Terri Schiavo case is hitting a collective nerve across America.

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Alina Cho, in New York, on the story of how the Schiavo saga is bringing back agonizing memories for two Michigan families.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And I'm Dana Bash, on the story of the political fallout from the Schiavo case for President Bush and for Congress.

And we will also go to Rome, where Delia Gallagher is on the story of an ailing Pope John Paul II on this Easter Sunday.

And we'll spotlight's one artist's tribute to the fallen heroes from wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Email us at ONTHESTORY@CNN.com. Now straight to the battle over Terri Schiavo.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S BROTHER: Terri is weakening, and, you know, she's down to her last hours. So something has to be done and it has to be done quick.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Bob Schindler making a last-ditch plea for his daughter. Legal options have all but run out for the Schindler family's fight to have Terri Schiavo's feeding tube reinserted. The case was rejected numerous times this week all the way up to the U.S. Supreme Court, and it's Terri Schiavo's ninth day today without a feeding tube.

And now we're going to go straight to Florida. CNN's Randi Kaye is outside the office of Michael Schiavo's attorney.

And Randi, tell us what the latest is this morning there in Florida.

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In terms of the legal battle, it appears the final round took place yesterday. We had a state court judge here in Florida, Judge George Greer, denying a motion from the Schindlers. They were requesting that their daughter receive some fluids over this holiday weekend while they buy some time to have her reevaluated. And they believe that her will to live, her intent to live has changed, and that she does, indeed, want to live.

They then filed -- after that motion was denied, they filed an emergency petition with the Florida Supreme Court, asking for the feeding tube to be reinserted and their daughter be reevaluated. And then into the evening last night, the Florida Supreme Court dismissed that, saying that the petition was out of their jurisdiction and they would have nothing to do with it.

So that is the latest on the legal battle from here. Certainly still a very emotional issue when it comes to Terri Schiavo's condition.

STARR: And Randi, one of the things that's so emotional to watch is both sides, the Schindler family, the Schiavo family, and their differing views even in these final days about what they see going on. Now, we have seen representatives of both sides talk about this, Michael Schiavo's attorney and the Schindler family. Let's have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE FELOS, MICHAEL SCHIAVO'S ATTORNEY: She is calm. She is peaceful. She is resting comfortably.

Her lips are not chapped. They are not bleeding. Her skin is -- her skin's not peeling. Frankly, when -- when I saw her -- and it's the first time I've seen her since the artificial life support was removed eight days ago -- she looked beautiful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOBBY SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S BROTHER: My sister is being dehydrated and starved, is being killed by dehydration and starvation. This is ninth day. And it isn't painless, it isn't peaceful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Now, the problem is here is that we haven't had a camera, nor has anybody else had a camera inside Terri Schiavo's hospice room, in sometime. We haven't seen fresh video of her, fresh pictures of her in years now.

So that is something that Bobby Schindler, her brother, would like to have done, but Michael Schiavo is resisting that. Her husband is saying a camera will not be allowed in there, and that is a court order as well.

So it's very hard to determine here which side is giving an accurate description of Terri Schiavo's condition. I mean, the brother yesterday coming out and saying his sister looked so awful to him that he's suggesting to his parents that they not even go and see their daughter.

And then on the flip side here, at a press conference with George Felos, Michael Schiavo's attorney, saying that she's beautiful, she's peaceful, never before looking more at peace, described sort of an unnaturalness about her. So it's really, really hard with all the emotion involved to determine what is the accurate description.

ARCE: Randi, what is it like inside that hospice? What do we know of when the parents can visit versus when the husband can visit? Is there any overlap at all? Has there been any, you know, face-to- face conversation between Michael Schiavo and the Schindler parents?

KAYE: From what we understand, the answer to that would be no. We know that they are not in the room at the same time. Michael Schiavo hasn't spoken to his in-laws and the family in years. And he has full control of Terri Schiavo's hospice room.

He can decide when he wants to be there, he can decide when her parents, her brother and sister, get to see her. On one day the Schindlers were not allowed -- were not allowed into the hospice room until about 5:00 p.m.

So we understand that he is there around the clock, we are being told, at the hospice facility, ever since the 18th, when her feeding tube was removed. And we can see the Schindlers go in and out. Where CNN is actually set up over there at the hospice, the family's private room, if you want to call it that, is right behind our live location. And so we see them go in and out and we know when they are going in.

And it's just an awful scene because they have to make their way through the crowd of protesters and through the crowd of reporters and the media to get some privacy. And just last night we were over there late, and we watched them huddled in the room. And many of them hugging. This was after the Supreme Court had dismissed there petition.

And it's just -- no matter where you stand on the issue, it's really just sad, the whole thing.

CHO: Randi, it's Alina in New York. And obviously this is sad for all parties involved, because it does appear to be just a waiting game at this point. But I think what some people don't realize is there's going to be a fight over burial rights now, right? If you could speak to that.

KAYE: Yes, there actually still is a fight. We double-checked with George Felos, Michael Schiavo's attorney, yesterday to see if anything's changed. And it still appears that Michael Schiavo does plan to have his wife Terri cremated, and he plans to bury her ashes in Pennsylvania at the Schiavo family plot.

That is not at all what the Schindlers would like. They would like for their daughter to be buried here in Florida. But that does still seem the case.

The other question surrounding her death is, who will actually be in the room when that final moment comes? Because they are never in the room at the same time, and George Felos addressed that yesterday as well. He says that he does believe that we'll know, they will be able to tell when her final hours or final minutes are coming, and he thinks they will be able to come to an agreement for both sides that both sides will be satisfied with. And which probably means at some point both sides will be able to be in that room and say good-bye to Terri Schiavo.

BASH: Randi, you talked a little bit about the atmosphere outside where you are, the attorney for Michael Schiavo. We understand that there have actually been some potential death threats against him. Talk about the security aspect of this. This is so emotional, so highly charged on both sides.

KAYE: Yes, I was very surprised. Yesterday at the press conference I noticed four sheriff deputies here surrounding the press conference, and then they also escorted George Felos, Michael Schiavo's attorney, to his car.

We also understand, you know, just asking about Michael Schiavo and his whereabouts yesterday, he's very -- he would not say much about exactly where his client is, he would just say the hospice facility. So it does appear that security is a concern. There was a gentleman who was arrested by the FBI just on Friday for apparently soliciting people on the Internet to have Michael Schiavo killed. So there are certainly some concerns.

BASH: Randi, thank you. We will certainly be going back to you throughout the day to get the latest as things develop throughout the day.

And up next, I am going to be on the story of how the Schiavo story may be inflicting some political damage on President Bush and perhaps on Congress. That's at the end of the hour.

And "What's Her Story?" features a woman whose personal loss inspired a tribute to U.S. servicemen and women who made the ultimate sacrifice in Iraq and Afghanistan.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a complex case with serious issues. But in extraordinary circumstances like this, it is wise to always err on the side of life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: President Bush defending his and Congress' decisions to intervene in the Terri Schiavo case.

Welcome back. I'm Dana Bash. And we're ON THE STORY.

STARR: But that intervention, Dana, was last week, and this week is this week in Washington politics. We -- the last time we talked to you, you were in Crawford. You were about to jump on Air Force One for the midnight signing of that legislation for Terri Schiavo, and now this week we hear very little from President Bush.

BASH: Well, that's right. And it's actually interesting that when you sort of look back, we didn't hear a lot from him at all before it was clear last Sunday, as you said, when we last talked -- because I was racing to get on Air Force One -- he was careful not to talk about her until he was clear what the process was. And I'll just sort of give you a little bit of the story of what happened last week, last Sunday night.

Obviously Congress passed this, not until 12:30 at night, after a lot of drama. It wasn't even clear if they were going to have the votes there to do it.

Once it passed, the president was sleeping in his bed in the White House, he was woken up by a White House operator who said, yes, this actually passed. Then his staff secretary, Brett Kavanaugh, walked the legislation up to his door, knocked on the door. The president opened the door, stood outside, signed it, closed the door, and went back to bed. I guess you know now why they wouldn't let us have some television cameras in there. Didn't want to snow the president in his PJs, perhaps.

STARR: But now this week why aren't we hearing from him very much about this? I mean, he's pretty much done on his involvement in this case, it appears.

BASH: What has -- what was fascinating to watch this week is, after he signed this, an unprecedented move by the White House, by the president, the federal courts basically said, I'm sorry, we don't think so. Federal judges along the way, from the district level to appellate level, all the way up to the Supreme Court, said that they weren't going to get involved, they weren't going to hear the case as the president and Congress said they wanted to.

While this was happening, the president's lawyers were trying to figure out whether or not they had any kind of way to maneuver legally around that, if they had any executive options. And essentially, the president, by Wednesday, was told by his lawyers, you know, there really isn't any option.

He was having a press conference in Crawford -- excuse me, in Waco, Texas, where we were with the leaders from Mexico and Canada. He was prepared to come out and essentially say that. Let's listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: This is an extraordinary and sad case. And I believe that in a case such as this, the legislative branch, the executive branch, ought to err on the side of life, which we have. And now we will watch the courts make its decisions. But we looked at all options from the executive branch perspective.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Now, when we heard that, Barbara, those of us who were not in the room, we thought, wait, wait a minute, is he saying that there are other options? Maybe he's going to look into is something that would be even more extraordinary then what they had already done?

Our colleagues in the room said that it was clear that enough was enough. So we were frantically -- I was frantically e-mailing his senior aides, saying, "What does he mean? Is there something else they're going to do?" And the answer was no, all legal options were absolutely done, the president made it clear on Wednesday that was it. Because essentially, the federal courts said, sorry Mr. President, sorry Congress. You want us to get involved, we're not going to touch it.

CHO: Well, Dana, but there is the legal and then there is the political reality, as you say. There was some polling that was done that wasn't so favorable, right? And if you could speak to that.

BASH: But, Alina, that's the question, whether or not this is a legal reality or whether or not this is an actual political reality that you saw here by the president to sort of say, OK, enough is enough. You talked about some polls, let's look at one.

A "TIME" poll that came out yesterday, this is pretty much indicative of the rest of the polls, 70 percent of the American people said it was wrong for the president to get involved. And 75 percent said it was wrong for Congress to get involved.

And actually, even more interesting, is when you look at inside that poll, 68 percent of Republicans thought it was wrong. And that is the fascinating dynamic and perhaps the rub inside the Republican Party because you have the president doing this -- they say not for political reasons but it's truly because what he believed -- but conservatives, religious conservatives, it became a rallying cry for them.

But on the other hand, you have just the basic Republican credo not to get the federal government too involved in people's lives. And it looks as though, looking at not just that poll, but other polls, that is sort of where Republicans are falling here. So numbers like that are pretty hard to argue with in terms of the fact that this really felt like a dud among the American people.

ARCE: Dana, it's Easter, so this is a very religious time of year. And I would wonder, there's a presumption out there that George Bush has in some part done this because he wants to appeal to people who are very conservative and religious.

Is that working? Is there some kind of an appeal being made successfully? Or, you know, is this perhaps even turning some of them off who might be saying, hey, you went out there to try and do something for us, but in the end you weren't really able to help here?

BASH: Well, you know, that's sort of what I was trying to get at with the rub inside the Republican Party, is that, certainly, you looked at the blogs, you looked at the Republican -- at the sort of right to life Web sites, and they were begging Congress, begging the president to get involved. But on the other hand, once the federal government got involved at this kind of unprecedented level, you had Republicans who, by and large, do not want the federal government involved in their lives, saying, wait a minute, this might have been going a little too far. And perhaps you have Democrats who were really, really quiet about this the entire time, thinking maybe we made the right decision in just staying out of this.

STARR: Well, it is a story that America will obviously be continuing to watch minute by minute.

And from watching the fight over one woman's life to the battle to stabilize Iraq and start bringing thousands of troops home, I'm back on that story in a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The seven months here we've been mortared, bombs, shot at, ambushed, attacked. It was kind of hard over there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: Private 1st Class Victor Morales (ph) of the U.S. Marine Corps describing life in the Iraq war zone. He's one of the lucky ones who will soon be back at home. But if, if a new Pentagon plan is implemented, tens of thousands more servicemen and women could be following him.

Welcome back. I'm Barbara Starr. We're ON THE STORY.

ARCE: Barbara, I'm wondering, I know that people are eager to get the troops home. But if we bring too many of them back too soon, and the insurgency rises again, what kind of fallout are we talking for the Bush administration, who has been so steadfast about saying that they wouldn't remove troops until this was truly over and Iraq was truly secure?

STARR: Well, what they are looking at, Rose, is the notion that the insurgency appears to be a bit on the wane, that Iraqi security forces are increasing their capability to take over. So what they are looking at is a concept where, starting at the end of this year, maybe even as soon as this summer, they could start a phased return back to the United States of some number of troops. But the key this time is exactly what you say, they will keep troops back in the United States on a contingency basis, ready to go if problems prayer up.

Whether the new Iraqi government might want the return of those troops into their country could be a bit problematic. But they think that if the trend stays, they will be able to at least bring some number of troops home. And perhaps by this time next year, the 140,000 troops now in Iraq could be down to just under 100,000 if things continue to improve.

CHO: Barbara, I think one of the most fascinating stories to come out this week that I know you reported extensively on but was sort of lost in the Schiavo saga is a story about a secret escape tunnel in Iraq. Tell us about that.

STARR: Well, Alina, can anybody whistle the theme from the movie "The Great Escape?" Because not a laughing matter, but it really is quite an amazing story.

Camp Bucca, southeastern Iraq, look at this. This is an escape tunnel that was dug by some Iraqi detainees at Camp Bucca.

The U.S. found it this week. Look, they dug it out. The tunnel was 600 feet long, it was buried 10 to 12 feet deep.

The Iraqi detainees, prisoners, had spread the dirt around the camp. U.S. guards began to notice that. They began to notice that the filters in the latrines were constantly clogged with dirt. How could that have happened? And they found this escape tunnel.

It was ready to go, by all accounts. They are still looking around today to see if they can find more escape tunnels that they didn't know about.

We should say they have done a head count, everyone who was there before the tunnel is still there. But this is a story that hasn't fully played out yet. Nobody can really remember the last time anything like this happened.

BASH: Those are pretty amazing pictures. I want to ask you a question about the -- about the troops coming home potentially. Obviously we have heard from the Bush administration and from the Pentagon that that won't happen until the Iraqi military is ready, the Iraqi police, if you will, is ready.

So are they more ready now?

STARR: Well, gradually they are more ready. But you raise a very interesting point, because U.S. generals, top commanders that I spoke with this week, who are even working on this plan, working on this idea to bring troops home, are very concerned that even the phrase "troop reduction, troop cuts, troop withdrawal," sends a signal that the U.S., in fact, is cutting and running.

They want from the military standpoint to make very clear that they are only going to begin to draw back if the Iraqis can really take-over. They don't want to send any signal to the insurgency that the U.S. is packing up and leaving.

There's a big military concern about that, because if that signal goes out and the insurgency thinks that's what is going on, it puts all the remaining U.S. troops in the country at risk. So still a very tough line on that question. It will only happen if the Iraqis continue to improve.

BASH: Barbara, you worked on an interesting piece this week which I think we're going to have a sneak preview of, the two-year anniversary of the 507th Maintenance Company. Of course the famous Jessica Lynch story. Let's take a look at some of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STARR (voice-over): March 23rd, the 507th was at the end of a column of hundreds of vehicles moving north in the march to Baghdad. As the came to Nasiriyah, they fell behind and missed a critical left turn that should have taken them around the town.

Instead, exhausted -- they had not slept in 60 hours -- they drove right into hostile territory. Realizing their mistake, the convoy tried to retrace its steps, but some vehicles ran out of gas, some broke down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They took a turn and they realized there were sandbags on the other side of the road, ditches, and heavy weapons began firing. And they returned fire.

STARR: The 507th tried to fight back, but many of their weapons jammed. Under fire, the convoy broke up into three groups. Two of the groups made it to safety. The other disaster. One vehicle plows into the back of another. Private 1st Class Jessica Lynch is injured in the crash and Lori Piestewa badly wounded. She later died in captivity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: A story that two years ago captured the world's attention. There were U.S. POWs in the war in Iraq, eventually all rescued. And it's hard to believe it's been two years. We look at this and it sort of seems like history now.

BASH: It sure does, Barbara.

And we are going to take a quick break. We will be back ON THE STORY right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: And good morning everyone, I'm Tony Harris at the CNN Center in Atlanta. ON THE STORY continues in a moment, but first headlines now in the news.

Pope John Paul II gave a silent Easter blessing to the faithful gathered at St. Peter's square today. The ailing 84-year-old pontiff tried unsuccessfully to read the blessing aloud but could not be heard. Instead a cardinal read it. ON THE STORY will have a live story from Rome in less a minute.

A blast in a mostly Christian sector of eastern Beirut Saturday caused widespread damage to an industrial district. Security officials believe it was the result of a car bomb. Local media report up to eight people were injured.

North Korea reports an outbreak of bird flu. That's according to the country's official media outlet. It says hundreds of thousands of birds have been burned and buried to try to stop the spread of the disease, which can be passed onto humans. But officials say there are no reports of any human infections. We will have a full update on all of these stories in 30 minutes. Now back to CNN's ON THE STORY.

BASH: Pope John Paul II trying but unable to give the Easter blessing today. The ailing pontiff, in the words of one Roman Catholic cardinal, is, quote, "serenely abandoning himself to God's will."

Welcome back. We're ON THE STORY, and joining us now from Rome is CNN's Vatican analyst, Delia Gallagher. And Delia, I imagine there was some disappointment about that, about not being able to actually hear the pope on Easter Sunday.

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Yes, well, I have to say it's been a very somber, even sad Easter here at the Vatican, because the pope is obviously in great physical discomfort. He still has the tracheotomy tube in his throat, which is inhibiting him from projecting his voice. He can speak privately to those around him. Like many tracheotomy patients, his voice is a low, gravelly one, but what he cannot do is have enough control of his breathing and larynx to project his voice. He tried today, he was unable to do it. And I think the other factor here is a psychological one for the pope, the great frustration for this man who has been the great communicator for 26 years, unable to speak.

CHO: Delia, this is Alina in New York. This is also a pope, though, who knows very much, and knows very well the power of pictures. There was a camera in the back of his car when he returned home from the hospital. There was a camera in his private chapel on Good Friday. This is a pope very much still in power, at least of his image.

GALLAGHER: Well, absolutely. I think it's one of the great myths that the pope is somehow not lucid at this time. It's not true. He is very much aware of what's going on around him, and wants to be as present as possible. You know, if anything, there are some in the Vatican who would say stop, come back, and don't go to the window as much and don't be seen as much, but this hope has led the Catholic Church in this manner, using the means of communication for his -- all throughout his pontificate, and he is not about to change now, even if he can't speak. There are other ways, he knows very well, to communicate.

ARCE: Delia, I wonder with so much being said internationally about the Terri Schiavo case, and the Vatican saying that the pope has put himself in pretty much in God's hands, how much about death and dying is coming out of the church right now? Is there an emphasis being put on that? Will that perhaps trickle down into Easter services, or things coming out of the Vatican?

GALLAGHER: Well, you know, in a general way, of course, the church is always focused on death, because in their view, this is only one life. There is another life after this one, and that is part of their message. So the pope has said it many times before, not to be afraid of death and so on.

On a practical level, of course, they don't discuss that with regard to the pope, because he is still very much active and able to continue as the head of the church. So there is no discussion or preparation for the death.

But certainly, in a sort of theological, religious sense, it is something which is always discussed during the services, Easter time and otherwise. Of course, Easter focuses on the death of Jesus and his resurrection. So the pope's message is, it doesn't end with death.

STARR: But still, Delia, even though there may be no, of course, public discussion about a succession to the pope eventually, the Vatican is also a political organization within the church by all accounts. Do you think behind the scenes, there is the beginning in the College of Cardinals of some, perhaps not maneuvering, but discussion about what comes next after this pope?

GALLAGHER: Yeah, well, there's no doubt that there is a discussion about what will be the future of the church, what are the needs of the church after this pontificate. Because we have to look at what has this pontificate accomplished and what still needs to be done and what direction they want to take the church in. So those are clearly issues that the cardinals are thinking about right now.

As regards to a particular candidate, however, from the cardinals that I talked to, again, they are focusing on what are the criteria for a candidate, and then they will look at the candidate. Because, of course, there are many very qualified cardinals. The question is, what sort of direction, where do we want the cardinals to come from, and what sort of things do we want him to accomplish in the future? So certainly those are issues that the cardinals are thinking about, not discussing yet publicly, for obvious reasons, but no doubt in their minds.

BASH: And Delia, just bringing you to sort of this story that everybody is talking about here in the United States, which is Terri Schiavo, the Vatican weighed in on that case this week. Tell us what they said about it.

GALLAGHER: Well, the Vatican's position is fairly simple and it's a very well-known one; they are always on the side of life. Their idea is that human life, the mere fact of your existence should not be tied to what you are capable of doing. So if you can't walk, if you can't talk, it doesn't mean that your life has any less value than someone who can. And this right is a fundamental one as far as they are concerned, and every civilized society, they say, should guarantee that right.

And concomitant with that right is also the right to food and water, the right to continue your existence. And anybody who takes that right away from you is in some way committing murder, or euthanasia, as they've said in the case of Terri Schiavo.

CHO: Delia Gallagher, we thank you very much. We look forward to talking with you again very soon.

And from Rome and lingering concerns about the hope's health to Michigan and a pair of families who are reliving their own painful experiences when deciding a loved one's fate. I'm on that story, straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARY MARTIN: Enough is enough. Not everyone wants to just exist.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHO: That's Mary Martin, a Michigan woman who knows exactly how Terri Schiavo's family, especially her husband, Michael Schiavo, is feeling now. Welcome back. I'm Alina Cho. We're ON THE STORY.

ARCE: Alina, I'm wondering, are people out there who are watching this case closely expecting that anything is going to come of this, that there might be legislation, or that the country might change the way it deals with these right to die cases?

CHO: Listen, that's the hope, at least among the two families I spoke to, Rose, in Michigan. One woman, Mary Martin, she was involved in a horrible accident with her husband and her three children. Another man that we spoke to had the same thing happen to him. He watched as his daughter was hit by a car.

Both agree, though one is a Democrat and one a Republican, both agree that the government should stay out of the debate.

BASH: And Alina, you know, this is...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I believe that...

BASH: Sorry, Alina, this is an issue that happens really across the country every single day, that families have to make a decision whether or not to remove a feed tube.

CHO: You are absolutely right, Dana.

BASH: And what I want to ask you is that you've talked to families who have had to deal with this. What the main issue is in the Schiavo case, is the absolute differences between two very important members, or camps if you will, in Terri Schiavo's family.

CHO: That's right. I spoke to this one woman who said listen, I am the wife of a man who was severely brain damaged in an accident. I made the decision, the painful decision to have his feeding tube removed. She was fought by her husband's family and ultimately lost in court. Her husband died 15 years of pneumonia. As a result of this, she believes very strongly that Michael Schiavo should, as a spouse, have the right to decide what happens to Terri Schiavo. She says that even the Bible says that when you get married, you leave your family and you cling to your spouse.

The other man we spoke to, the father, Frank Rosebush (ph), had a slightly different view, and it was quite interesting. He talked about the difference between ethics and morality. He made the decision to take his then 12-year-old daughter off the ventilator after she was hit by a car and remained in a persistent vegetative state for more than a year. He made that painful decision. He was sure to make sure that his entire family was on board with this.

What he says, however, is he makes the distinction between ethics and morality and says, I believe, listen, I believe that ethically, Michael Schiavo is right in this debate. But morally, I'm a parent. I believe that Terri Schiavo's parents, the Schindlers, should ultimately make the decision on whether they want the feeding tube removed from Terri.

STARR: Alina, while this story continues to struggle across the country all of this week, you were working on something else, which a lot of Americans may not be aware of. And that's the current situation in Philadelphia, where the homicide rate, if you will, has been -- what word can you use but skyrocketing this year...

CHO: It certainly has.

STARR: ... and local officials are quite concerned. Tell us what's been going on in Philadelphia.

CHO: Well, it's been quite extraordinary, but so much focus, Barbara, has been paid to the Schiavo case that not a lot of attention has been paid to what's going on in Philadelphia. You are absolutely right. There has been more than 20 murders in 10 days. Something like more than 80 homicides, more than 60 of them gun-related this year, a sharp increase over last year.

What has happened as a result is the mayor, John Street, has gotten together with the governor, Ed Rendell, who was once the mayor of Philadelphia himself. He said to him, listen, we need to limit the amount of gun permits that are issued in Philadelphia, and throughout the state for that matter.

The problem is this -- the state legislature is predominantly Republican. And many of those state legislators, including one man we spoke to, said, listen, this is an urban issue, it's a problem but it's an urban issue. And we shouldn't be limiting gun owner's rights; what we should be doing is making sure that the people who commit these crimes are sentenced and remain in jail for the maximum sentence.

ARCE: Alina, any other theories on why the crime rate seems to be rising in Philadelphia when in other big cities, they are still talking about figures going down?

CHO: Well, that is the $25,000 question, Rose. We always (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that. The police won't say. We have asked them repeatedly, and what they say about this is that it appears that these are random acts of violence. We did speak to one woman who lives in a particularly tough area of town in north Philly, and she is a woman who lost her 16-year-old son to gun violence last summer. Of course, as a result of that, she says, in fact, I live in fear. And what she does is she walks her 7-year-old daughter to school every day, to and from. It's only four blocks, but that is the one little thing, little proactive measure that she can take to help her feel a little bit better about what has happened, because her greatest fear now is losing another child.

ARCE: That's a troubling threshold to pass.

Well, it's hard to find anyone who doesn't have an opinion on Terri Schiavo's fate. I'm on that story just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN LEHRER, WNYC TALK SHOW HOST: This is kind of the perfect talk radio storm. You have the personal and the political all coming together.

(END VIDEO CLIP) ARCE: New York City radio talk show host Brian Lehrer of WNYC, on why the private ordeal of Terri Schiavo story and her family is the number one topic from the airwaves to office water coolers across America.

Welcome back. I'm Rose Arce. We're ON THE STORY.

CHO: Rose, it's Alina here. Why do you think this story has so captivated the nation? What is it about it?

ARCE: When people call into these talk shows, one of the first things I hear them say is, my mother, my husband, my child -- I know my own mother called me yesterday morning to kind of yell over the phone about this story and say that she wants to throw stones at all these judges.

People feel this very personal. They relate it to their own family. They relate it to the death of their parents, to their ailing spouse. You know, it is something that just transcends a typical story where you might look at it and say, oh, I might some day be in that situation. People are saying, they know they are going to be in this kind of situation or they've been in it before. And it strikes them very personally.

And it has also transcended all sorts of personal and public discussion and gone into the political realm. Let's take a listen to what Randall Terry, a spokesman for the Schiavo family -- meaning her parents -- said just a few days ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RANDALL TERRY, SPOKESMAN, TERRI SCHIAVO'S PARENTS: If she dies, there's going to be hell to pay with the pro-life, pro-family, Republican people of various legislative levels, statewide and federal-wide, who have used pro-life, pro-family, conservative rhetoric to get into power, and then when they have that power, they refuse to use it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: Rose, this certainly has started a national conversation about death, if you will.

ARCE: Absolutely.

STARR: But has also, as we see from Randall Terry and his background in the pro-life movement, brought them back to the forefront of that national conversation, certainly in one respect. Do you -- is there going to be a resurgence of that movement now, given the Schiavo case?

ARCE: Well, I think that's certainly what Randall Terry and his supporters are hoping for. You might remember that way back when, Randall Terry was probably one of the most, I should say, prominent, vociferous folks on the issue of the anti-abortion movement. And then he kind of disappeared from view a little bit. He had some conflicts with his church; he had some conflicts later with his family, and he's been a little bit quieter. This has been kind of a comeback for him. He's now the spokesman for Terri Schiavo's parents. A lot of other right to lifers have joined with him, that were not necessarily allies of each other or of him, and this has been an opportunity for them to link some very important conservative Christian issues and put them on the national landscape.

BASH: And Rose, talking obviously about Randall Terry, of course, the opponents of Randall Terry, and people like him, say that if you look at that, this is, from their point of view, perhaps, a case in point of why this is inherently a political issue, that you have people who have for years and years worked for the right to life movement essentially inserting themselves -- he is the family spokesman here, right?

ARCE: Well, yes. I think that one thing you are seeing also is that he has some pretty harsh words for people both on the left and on the right of this issue. This is not a case where he and his forces have kind of allied themselves just against, say, liberal judges. This is one common target of people in the right to life moment and people in the anti-abortion movement.

He has also been very critical, for instance, of Jeb Bush, because he said he gave the family false hope. As you heard from that soundbite, he has lashed out at Republican politicians, and said, we stood by you during these elections, because we believe that you believe our very conservative, Christian faith point of view, and now that we need you, how come you haven't come through for us?

CHO: Rose, I'm curious a little bit more about what you were hearing on the talk shows. I know you listen to a lot of radio talk shows. A lot of people I have talked to have said, listen, no matter how you feel on the issue, I'm going to go out and get myself a living will, and I am wondering if you've heard a lot of talk about that.

ARCE: I have to say, that was the first thing that came to mind when I got off the phone with my mother yesterday, and I thought to myself, these are not really things that you sit around the living room talking about it. You know, on the talk shows, it reflects that. People are saying things like, wow, I don't think I have ever discussed this with my husband, or I have never -- you know, I don't know what my parents would do, would they challenge my wife or my brothers who know me pretty well about, you know, this fundamental decision, this very, very critical decision about how I die? And yes, I think people talk about going to Web sites, they will give you the address for the Web site on the talk shows. And I know that there's at least one Web site that I had heard of that has experienced this absolute rush of traffic of people who want to have a living will and want to make it clear to their family members how exactly they would like to spend their final hours, and what, you know, they think should be the limit as to how far the family should go at keeping them alive.

STARR: Well, you know, because death is, of course, one of the most personal decisions a person might make, how they choose to die if they are in some sort of terminal state. It's interesting -- of course, we in this business, cable television, talk radio, we have seen so many stories become that national conversation, and then they pass from the scene. This one, Rose, seems to have some persistence because of the very personal nature of it.

ARCE: Absolutely, and because of the extraordinary reaction that there has been at the political level. I think that a lot of Americans watched this story, and at first maybe they wanted to turn away a little bit. You don't want to think about death, you don't want to think of these terrible family conflicts. But as it's gotten larger and larger, and they've seen the president's involvement, they've seen the involvement of churches, of legislators, you know, they have seen the agony of all members of this family, they begin to think about their own situation. And again, it's not something that you can escape. It's not something you want to think about, but at the same time it transcends kind of that story of the day stuff. This touches everybody.

BASH: Well, Rose, it certainly does touch everybody, and we will certainly be watching. We will be right back ON THE STORY in a moment.

ANNOUNCER: An artist unveils a tribute to fallen soldiers this week. What's her story? More when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: Annette Polan, what's her story? Sold and organized "Faces of the Fallen," an exhibit at Arlington Cemetery, honoring U.S. servicemen and women killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. The exhibit features portraits of more than 1,300 soldiers, made from oil, clay, glass and cloth.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNETTE POLAN, ARTIST: It has the ability to bring people together from different points of view, in sympathy, in honor, in love. There is a tremendous amount of love going into this project.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: A professor at Corcoran College in Washington, D.C., Polan painted nine of the portraits, and was assisted by her students and other local artists.

BASH: Thanks to my colleagues and thank you for watching ON THE STORY this Easter Sunday. We'll be back next week. At 11:30 a.m. Eastern, 8:30 Pacific, "RELIABLE SOURCES" looks at the media coverage of religion and morality in the Terri Schiavo case. And at 12:00 noon Eastern, 9:00 a.m. Pacific, "LATE EDITION" with Wolf Blitzer will have an exclusive interview with the commanding general of U.S. Central Command, John Abizaid. "LIVE SUNDAY" starts right now.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired March 27, 2005 - 10:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning, everyone. I'm Tony Harris at the CNN Center in Atlanta. CNN's ON THE STORY begins in a moment. But first, headlines "Now in the News."
Terri Schiavo is in her final hours of life. That's according to a spokesman for her parents and siblings. He says Schiavo is said to be showing signs of starvation and dehydration. Her feeding tube was removed March 18.

The family is pleading with Florida governor Jeb Bush to intervene. If he doesn't, doctors have said Schiavo will likely will die by Friday.

The thousands gathered for Easter mass at St. Peter's Square received a silent blessing from Pope John Paul II from his window. The ailing 84-year-old pontiff followed along as a cardinal read the blessing. It was the first time in his 26-year papacy that the pope did not celebrate the mass in person.

The condition of Monaco's Prince Rainier has improved. A palace spokesman tells CNN Rainier has regained consciousness and the functions of his vital organs have stabilized. The 81-year-old monarch was admitted to the hospital earlier this month for a lung infection.

More news in 30 minutes. CNN's ON THE STORY starts right now.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to CNN's ON THE STORY, where our journalists have the inside word on the stories we covered this week. I'm Barbara Starr, on the story of how changing conditions in Iraq could mean the start of thousands of U.S. troops returning home.

ROSE ARCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Rose Arce, in New York, on the story of how the Terri Schiavo case is hitting a collective nerve across America.

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Alina Cho, in New York, on the story of how the Schiavo saga is bringing back agonizing memories for two Michigan families.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And I'm Dana Bash, on the story of the political fallout from the Schiavo case for President Bush and for Congress.

And we will also go to Rome, where Delia Gallagher is on the story of an ailing Pope John Paul II on this Easter Sunday.

And we'll spotlight's one artist's tribute to the fallen heroes from wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Email us at ONTHESTORY@CNN.com. Now straight to the battle over Terri Schiavo.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S BROTHER: Terri is weakening, and, you know, she's down to her last hours. So something has to be done and it has to be done quick.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Bob Schindler making a last-ditch plea for his daughter. Legal options have all but run out for the Schindler family's fight to have Terri Schiavo's feeding tube reinserted. The case was rejected numerous times this week all the way up to the U.S. Supreme Court, and it's Terri Schiavo's ninth day today without a feeding tube.

And now we're going to go straight to Florida. CNN's Randi Kaye is outside the office of Michael Schiavo's attorney.

And Randi, tell us what the latest is this morning there in Florida.

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In terms of the legal battle, it appears the final round took place yesterday. We had a state court judge here in Florida, Judge George Greer, denying a motion from the Schindlers. They were requesting that their daughter receive some fluids over this holiday weekend while they buy some time to have her reevaluated. And they believe that her will to live, her intent to live has changed, and that she does, indeed, want to live.

They then filed -- after that motion was denied, they filed an emergency petition with the Florida Supreme Court, asking for the feeding tube to be reinserted and their daughter be reevaluated. And then into the evening last night, the Florida Supreme Court dismissed that, saying that the petition was out of their jurisdiction and they would have nothing to do with it.

So that is the latest on the legal battle from here. Certainly still a very emotional issue when it comes to Terri Schiavo's condition.

STARR: And Randi, one of the things that's so emotional to watch is both sides, the Schindler family, the Schiavo family, and their differing views even in these final days about what they see going on. Now, we have seen representatives of both sides talk about this, Michael Schiavo's attorney and the Schindler family. Let's have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE FELOS, MICHAEL SCHIAVO'S ATTORNEY: She is calm. She is peaceful. She is resting comfortably.

Her lips are not chapped. They are not bleeding. Her skin is -- her skin's not peeling. Frankly, when -- when I saw her -- and it's the first time I've seen her since the artificial life support was removed eight days ago -- she looked beautiful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOBBY SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S BROTHER: My sister is being dehydrated and starved, is being killed by dehydration and starvation. This is ninth day. And it isn't painless, it isn't peaceful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Now, the problem is here is that we haven't had a camera, nor has anybody else had a camera inside Terri Schiavo's hospice room, in sometime. We haven't seen fresh video of her, fresh pictures of her in years now.

So that is something that Bobby Schindler, her brother, would like to have done, but Michael Schiavo is resisting that. Her husband is saying a camera will not be allowed in there, and that is a court order as well.

So it's very hard to determine here which side is giving an accurate description of Terri Schiavo's condition. I mean, the brother yesterday coming out and saying his sister looked so awful to him that he's suggesting to his parents that they not even go and see their daughter.

And then on the flip side here, at a press conference with George Felos, Michael Schiavo's attorney, saying that she's beautiful, she's peaceful, never before looking more at peace, described sort of an unnaturalness about her. So it's really, really hard with all the emotion involved to determine what is the accurate description.

ARCE: Randi, what is it like inside that hospice? What do we know of when the parents can visit versus when the husband can visit? Is there any overlap at all? Has there been any, you know, face-to- face conversation between Michael Schiavo and the Schindler parents?

KAYE: From what we understand, the answer to that would be no. We know that they are not in the room at the same time. Michael Schiavo hasn't spoken to his in-laws and the family in years. And he has full control of Terri Schiavo's hospice room.

He can decide when he wants to be there, he can decide when her parents, her brother and sister, get to see her. On one day the Schindlers were not allowed -- were not allowed into the hospice room until about 5:00 p.m.

So we understand that he is there around the clock, we are being told, at the hospice facility, ever since the 18th, when her feeding tube was removed. And we can see the Schindlers go in and out. Where CNN is actually set up over there at the hospice, the family's private room, if you want to call it that, is right behind our live location. And so we see them go in and out and we know when they are going in.

And it's just an awful scene because they have to make their way through the crowd of protesters and through the crowd of reporters and the media to get some privacy. And just last night we were over there late, and we watched them huddled in the room. And many of them hugging. This was after the Supreme Court had dismissed there petition.

And it's just -- no matter where you stand on the issue, it's really just sad, the whole thing.

CHO: Randi, it's Alina in New York. And obviously this is sad for all parties involved, because it does appear to be just a waiting game at this point. But I think what some people don't realize is there's going to be a fight over burial rights now, right? If you could speak to that.

KAYE: Yes, there actually still is a fight. We double-checked with George Felos, Michael Schiavo's attorney, yesterday to see if anything's changed. And it still appears that Michael Schiavo does plan to have his wife Terri cremated, and he plans to bury her ashes in Pennsylvania at the Schiavo family plot.

That is not at all what the Schindlers would like. They would like for their daughter to be buried here in Florida. But that does still seem the case.

The other question surrounding her death is, who will actually be in the room when that final moment comes? Because they are never in the room at the same time, and George Felos addressed that yesterday as well. He says that he does believe that we'll know, they will be able to tell when her final hours or final minutes are coming, and he thinks they will be able to come to an agreement for both sides that both sides will be satisfied with. And which probably means at some point both sides will be able to be in that room and say good-bye to Terri Schiavo.

BASH: Randi, you talked a little bit about the atmosphere outside where you are, the attorney for Michael Schiavo. We understand that there have actually been some potential death threats against him. Talk about the security aspect of this. This is so emotional, so highly charged on both sides.

KAYE: Yes, I was very surprised. Yesterday at the press conference I noticed four sheriff deputies here surrounding the press conference, and then they also escorted George Felos, Michael Schiavo's attorney, to his car.

We also understand, you know, just asking about Michael Schiavo and his whereabouts yesterday, he's very -- he would not say much about exactly where his client is, he would just say the hospice facility. So it does appear that security is a concern. There was a gentleman who was arrested by the FBI just on Friday for apparently soliciting people on the Internet to have Michael Schiavo killed. So there are certainly some concerns.

BASH: Randi, thank you. We will certainly be going back to you throughout the day to get the latest as things develop throughout the day.

And up next, I am going to be on the story of how the Schiavo story may be inflicting some political damage on President Bush and perhaps on Congress. That's at the end of the hour.

And "What's Her Story?" features a woman whose personal loss inspired a tribute to U.S. servicemen and women who made the ultimate sacrifice in Iraq and Afghanistan.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a complex case with serious issues. But in extraordinary circumstances like this, it is wise to always err on the side of life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: President Bush defending his and Congress' decisions to intervene in the Terri Schiavo case.

Welcome back. I'm Dana Bash. And we're ON THE STORY.

STARR: But that intervention, Dana, was last week, and this week is this week in Washington politics. We -- the last time we talked to you, you were in Crawford. You were about to jump on Air Force One for the midnight signing of that legislation for Terri Schiavo, and now this week we hear very little from President Bush.

BASH: Well, that's right. And it's actually interesting that when you sort of look back, we didn't hear a lot from him at all before it was clear last Sunday, as you said, when we last talked -- because I was racing to get on Air Force One -- he was careful not to talk about her until he was clear what the process was. And I'll just sort of give you a little bit of the story of what happened last week, last Sunday night.

Obviously Congress passed this, not until 12:30 at night, after a lot of drama. It wasn't even clear if they were going to have the votes there to do it.

Once it passed, the president was sleeping in his bed in the White House, he was woken up by a White House operator who said, yes, this actually passed. Then his staff secretary, Brett Kavanaugh, walked the legislation up to his door, knocked on the door. The president opened the door, stood outside, signed it, closed the door, and went back to bed. I guess you know now why they wouldn't let us have some television cameras in there. Didn't want to snow the president in his PJs, perhaps.

STARR: But now this week why aren't we hearing from him very much about this? I mean, he's pretty much done on his involvement in this case, it appears.

BASH: What has -- what was fascinating to watch this week is, after he signed this, an unprecedented move by the White House, by the president, the federal courts basically said, I'm sorry, we don't think so. Federal judges along the way, from the district level to appellate level, all the way up to the Supreme Court, said that they weren't going to get involved, they weren't going to hear the case as the president and Congress said they wanted to.

While this was happening, the president's lawyers were trying to figure out whether or not they had any kind of way to maneuver legally around that, if they had any executive options. And essentially, the president, by Wednesday, was told by his lawyers, you know, there really isn't any option.

He was having a press conference in Crawford -- excuse me, in Waco, Texas, where we were with the leaders from Mexico and Canada. He was prepared to come out and essentially say that. Let's listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: This is an extraordinary and sad case. And I believe that in a case such as this, the legislative branch, the executive branch, ought to err on the side of life, which we have. And now we will watch the courts make its decisions. But we looked at all options from the executive branch perspective.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Now, when we heard that, Barbara, those of us who were not in the room, we thought, wait, wait a minute, is he saying that there are other options? Maybe he's going to look into is something that would be even more extraordinary then what they had already done?

Our colleagues in the room said that it was clear that enough was enough. So we were frantically -- I was frantically e-mailing his senior aides, saying, "What does he mean? Is there something else they're going to do?" And the answer was no, all legal options were absolutely done, the president made it clear on Wednesday that was it. Because essentially, the federal courts said, sorry Mr. President, sorry Congress. You want us to get involved, we're not going to touch it.

CHO: Well, Dana, but there is the legal and then there is the political reality, as you say. There was some polling that was done that wasn't so favorable, right? And if you could speak to that.

BASH: But, Alina, that's the question, whether or not this is a legal reality or whether or not this is an actual political reality that you saw here by the president to sort of say, OK, enough is enough. You talked about some polls, let's look at one.

A "TIME" poll that came out yesterday, this is pretty much indicative of the rest of the polls, 70 percent of the American people said it was wrong for the president to get involved. And 75 percent said it was wrong for Congress to get involved.

And actually, even more interesting, is when you look at inside that poll, 68 percent of Republicans thought it was wrong. And that is the fascinating dynamic and perhaps the rub inside the Republican Party because you have the president doing this -- they say not for political reasons but it's truly because what he believed -- but conservatives, religious conservatives, it became a rallying cry for them.

But on the other hand, you have just the basic Republican credo not to get the federal government too involved in people's lives. And it looks as though, looking at not just that poll, but other polls, that is sort of where Republicans are falling here. So numbers like that are pretty hard to argue with in terms of the fact that this really felt like a dud among the American people.

ARCE: Dana, it's Easter, so this is a very religious time of year. And I would wonder, there's a presumption out there that George Bush has in some part done this because he wants to appeal to people who are very conservative and religious.

Is that working? Is there some kind of an appeal being made successfully? Or, you know, is this perhaps even turning some of them off who might be saying, hey, you went out there to try and do something for us, but in the end you weren't really able to help here?

BASH: Well, you know, that's sort of what I was trying to get at with the rub inside the Republican Party, is that, certainly, you looked at the blogs, you looked at the Republican -- at the sort of right to life Web sites, and they were begging Congress, begging the president to get involved. But on the other hand, once the federal government got involved at this kind of unprecedented level, you had Republicans who, by and large, do not want the federal government involved in their lives, saying, wait a minute, this might have been going a little too far. And perhaps you have Democrats who were really, really quiet about this the entire time, thinking maybe we made the right decision in just staying out of this.

STARR: Well, it is a story that America will obviously be continuing to watch minute by minute.

And from watching the fight over one woman's life to the battle to stabilize Iraq and start bringing thousands of troops home, I'm back on that story in a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The seven months here we've been mortared, bombs, shot at, ambushed, attacked. It was kind of hard over there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: Private 1st Class Victor Morales (ph) of the U.S. Marine Corps describing life in the Iraq war zone. He's one of the lucky ones who will soon be back at home. But if, if a new Pentagon plan is implemented, tens of thousands more servicemen and women could be following him.

Welcome back. I'm Barbara Starr. We're ON THE STORY.

ARCE: Barbara, I'm wondering, I know that people are eager to get the troops home. But if we bring too many of them back too soon, and the insurgency rises again, what kind of fallout are we talking for the Bush administration, who has been so steadfast about saying that they wouldn't remove troops until this was truly over and Iraq was truly secure?

STARR: Well, what they are looking at, Rose, is the notion that the insurgency appears to be a bit on the wane, that Iraqi security forces are increasing their capability to take over. So what they are looking at is a concept where, starting at the end of this year, maybe even as soon as this summer, they could start a phased return back to the United States of some number of troops. But the key this time is exactly what you say, they will keep troops back in the United States on a contingency basis, ready to go if problems prayer up.

Whether the new Iraqi government might want the return of those troops into their country could be a bit problematic. But they think that if the trend stays, they will be able to at least bring some number of troops home. And perhaps by this time next year, the 140,000 troops now in Iraq could be down to just under 100,000 if things continue to improve.

CHO: Barbara, I think one of the most fascinating stories to come out this week that I know you reported extensively on but was sort of lost in the Schiavo saga is a story about a secret escape tunnel in Iraq. Tell us about that.

STARR: Well, Alina, can anybody whistle the theme from the movie "The Great Escape?" Because not a laughing matter, but it really is quite an amazing story.

Camp Bucca, southeastern Iraq, look at this. This is an escape tunnel that was dug by some Iraqi detainees at Camp Bucca.

The U.S. found it this week. Look, they dug it out. The tunnel was 600 feet long, it was buried 10 to 12 feet deep.

The Iraqi detainees, prisoners, had spread the dirt around the camp. U.S. guards began to notice that. They began to notice that the filters in the latrines were constantly clogged with dirt. How could that have happened? And they found this escape tunnel.

It was ready to go, by all accounts. They are still looking around today to see if they can find more escape tunnels that they didn't know about.

We should say they have done a head count, everyone who was there before the tunnel is still there. But this is a story that hasn't fully played out yet. Nobody can really remember the last time anything like this happened.

BASH: Those are pretty amazing pictures. I want to ask you a question about the -- about the troops coming home potentially. Obviously we have heard from the Bush administration and from the Pentagon that that won't happen until the Iraqi military is ready, the Iraqi police, if you will, is ready.

So are they more ready now?

STARR: Well, gradually they are more ready. But you raise a very interesting point, because U.S. generals, top commanders that I spoke with this week, who are even working on this plan, working on this idea to bring troops home, are very concerned that even the phrase "troop reduction, troop cuts, troop withdrawal," sends a signal that the U.S., in fact, is cutting and running.

They want from the military standpoint to make very clear that they are only going to begin to draw back if the Iraqis can really take-over. They don't want to send any signal to the insurgency that the U.S. is packing up and leaving.

There's a big military concern about that, because if that signal goes out and the insurgency thinks that's what is going on, it puts all the remaining U.S. troops in the country at risk. So still a very tough line on that question. It will only happen if the Iraqis continue to improve.

BASH: Barbara, you worked on an interesting piece this week which I think we're going to have a sneak preview of, the two-year anniversary of the 507th Maintenance Company. Of course the famous Jessica Lynch story. Let's take a look at some of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STARR (voice-over): March 23rd, the 507th was at the end of a column of hundreds of vehicles moving north in the march to Baghdad. As the came to Nasiriyah, they fell behind and missed a critical left turn that should have taken them around the town.

Instead, exhausted -- they had not slept in 60 hours -- they drove right into hostile territory. Realizing their mistake, the convoy tried to retrace its steps, but some vehicles ran out of gas, some broke down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They took a turn and they realized there were sandbags on the other side of the road, ditches, and heavy weapons began firing. And they returned fire.

STARR: The 507th tried to fight back, but many of their weapons jammed. Under fire, the convoy broke up into three groups. Two of the groups made it to safety. The other disaster. One vehicle plows into the back of another. Private 1st Class Jessica Lynch is injured in the crash and Lori Piestewa badly wounded. She later died in captivity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: A story that two years ago captured the world's attention. There were U.S. POWs in the war in Iraq, eventually all rescued. And it's hard to believe it's been two years. We look at this and it sort of seems like history now.

BASH: It sure does, Barbara.

And we are going to take a quick break. We will be back ON THE STORY right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: And good morning everyone, I'm Tony Harris at the CNN Center in Atlanta. ON THE STORY continues in a moment, but first headlines now in the news.

Pope John Paul II gave a silent Easter blessing to the faithful gathered at St. Peter's square today. The ailing 84-year-old pontiff tried unsuccessfully to read the blessing aloud but could not be heard. Instead a cardinal read it. ON THE STORY will have a live story from Rome in less a minute.

A blast in a mostly Christian sector of eastern Beirut Saturday caused widespread damage to an industrial district. Security officials believe it was the result of a car bomb. Local media report up to eight people were injured.

North Korea reports an outbreak of bird flu. That's according to the country's official media outlet. It says hundreds of thousands of birds have been burned and buried to try to stop the spread of the disease, which can be passed onto humans. But officials say there are no reports of any human infections. We will have a full update on all of these stories in 30 minutes. Now back to CNN's ON THE STORY.

BASH: Pope John Paul II trying but unable to give the Easter blessing today. The ailing pontiff, in the words of one Roman Catholic cardinal, is, quote, "serenely abandoning himself to God's will."

Welcome back. We're ON THE STORY, and joining us now from Rome is CNN's Vatican analyst, Delia Gallagher. And Delia, I imagine there was some disappointment about that, about not being able to actually hear the pope on Easter Sunday.

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Yes, well, I have to say it's been a very somber, even sad Easter here at the Vatican, because the pope is obviously in great physical discomfort. He still has the tracheotomy tube in his throat, which is inhibiting him from projecting his voice. He can speak privately to those around him. Like many tracheotomy patients, his voice is a low, gravelly one, but what he cannot do is have enough control of his breathing and larynx to project his voice. He tried today, he was unable to do it. And I think the other factor here is a psychological one for the pope, the great frustration for this man who has been the great communicator for 26 years, unable to speak.

CHO: Delia, this is Alina in New York. This is also a pope, though, who knows very much, and knows very well the power of pictures. There was a camera in the back of his car when he returned home from the hospital. There was a camera in his private chapel on Good Friday. This is a pope very much still in power, at least of his image.

GALLAGHER: Well, absolutely. I think it's one of the great myths that the pope is somehow not lucid at this time. It's not true. He is very much aware of what's going on around him, and wants to be as present as possible. You know, if anything, there are some in the Vatican who would say stop, come back, and don't go to the window as much and don't be seen as much, but this hope has led the Catholic Church in this manner, using the means of communication for his -- all throughout his pontificate, and he is not about to change now, even if he can't speak. There are other ways, he knows very well, to communicate.

ARCE: Delia, I wonder with so much being said internationally about the Terri Schiavo case, and the Vatican saying that the pope has put himself in pretty much in God's hands, how much about death and dying is coming out of the church right now? Is there an emphasis being put on that? Will that perhaps trickle down into Easter services, or things coming out of the Vatican?

GALLAGHER: Well, you know, in a general way, of course, the church is always focused on death, because in their view, this is only one life. There is another life after this one, and that is part of their message. So the pope has said it many times before, not to be afraid of death and so on.

On a practical level, of course, they don't discuss that with regard to the pope, because he is still very much active and able to continue as the head of the church. So there is no discussion or preparation for the death.

But certainly, in a sort of theological, religious sense, it is something which is always discussed during the services, Easter time and otherwise. Of course, Easter focuses on the death of Jesus and his resurrection. So the pope's message is, it doesn't end with death.

STARR: But still, Delia, even though there may be no, of course, public discussion about a succession to the pope eventually, the Vatican is also a political organization within the church by all accounts. Do you think behind the scenes, there is the beginning in the College of Cardinals of some, perhaps not maneuvering, but discussion about what comes next after this pope?

GALLAGHER: Yeah, well, there's no doubt that there is a discussion about what will be the future of the church, what are the needs of the church after this pontificate. Because we have to look at what has this pontificate accomplished and what still needs to be done and what direction they want to take the church in. So those are clearly issues that the cardinals are thinking about right now.

As regards to a particular candidate, however, from the cardinals that I talked to, again, they are focusing on what are the criteria for a candidate, and then they will look at the candidate. Because, of course, there are many very qualified cardinals. The question is, what sort of direction, where do we want the cardinals to come from, and what sort of things do we want him to accomplish in the future? So certainly those are issues that the cardinals are thinking about, not discussing yet publicly, for obvious reasons, but no doubt in their minds.

BASH: And Delia, just bringing you to sort of this story that everybody is talking about here in the United States, which is Terri Schiavo, the Vatican weighed in on that case this week. Tell us what they said about it.

GALLAGHER: Well, the Vatican's position is fairly simple and it's a very well-known one; they are always on the side of life. Their idea is that human life, the mere fact of your existence should not be tied to what you are capable of doing. So if you can't walk, if you can't talk, it doesn't mean that your life has any less value than someone who can. And this right is a fundamental one as far as they are concerned, and every civilized society, they say, should guarantee that right.

And concomitant with that right is also the right to food and water, the right to continue your existence. And anybody who takes that right away from you is in some way committing murder, or euthanasia, as they've said in the case of Terri Schiavo.

CHO: Delia Gallagher, we thank you very much. We look forward to talking with you again very soon.

And from Rome and lingering concerns about the hope's health to Michigan and a pair of families who are reliving their own painful experiences when deciding a loved one's fate. I'm on that story, straight ahead.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARY MARTIN: Enough is enough. Not everyone wants to just exist.

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CHO: That's Mary Martin, a Michigan woman who knows exactly how Terri Schiavo's family, especially her husband, Michael Schiavo, is feeling now. Welcome back. I'm Alina Cho. We're ON THE STORY.

ARCE: Alina, I'm wondering, are people out there who are watching this case closely expecting that anything is going to come of this, that there might be legislation, or that the country might change the way it deals with these right to die cases?

CHO: Listen, that's the hope, at least among the two families I spoke to, Rose, in Michigan. One woman, Mary Martin, she was involved in a horrible accident with her husband and her three children. Another man that we spoke to had the same thing happen to him. He watched as his daughter was hit by a car.

Both agree, though one is a Democrat and one a Republican, both agree that the government should stay out of the debate.

BASH: And Alina, you know, this is...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I believe that...

BASH: Sorry, Alina, this is an issue that happens really across the country every single day, that families have to make a decision whether or not to remove a feed tube.

CHO: You are absolutely right, Dana.

BASH: And what I want to ask you is that you've talked to families who have had to deal with this. What the main issue is in the Schiavo case, is the absolute differences between two very important members, or camps if you will, in Terri Schiavo's family.

CHO: That's right. I spoke to this one woman who said listen, I am the wife of a man who was severely brain damaged in an accident. I made the decision, the painful decision to have his feeding tube removed. She was fought by her husband's family and ultimately lost in court. Her husband died 15 years of pneumonia. As a result of this, she believes very strongly that Michael Schiavo should, as a spouse, have the right to decide what happens to Terri Schiavo. She says that even the Bible says that when you get married, you leave your family and you cling to your spouse.

The other man we spoke to, the father, Frank Rosebush (ph), had a slightly different view, and it was quite interesting. He talked about the difference between ethics and morality. He made the decision to take his then 12-year-old daughter off the ventilator after she was hit by a car and remained in a persistent vegetative state for more than a year. He made that painful decision. He was sure to make sure that his entire family was on board with this.

What he says, however, is he makes the distinction between ethics and morality and says, I believe, listen, I believe that ethically, Michael Schiavo is right in this debate. But morally, I'm a parent. I believe that Terri Schiavo's parents, the Schindlers, should ultimately make the decision on whether they want the feeding tube removed from Terri.

STARR: Alina, while this story continues to struggle across the country all of this week, you were working on something else, which a lot of Americans may not be aware of. And that's the current situation in Philadelphia, where the homicide rate, if you will, has been -- what word can you use but skyrocketing this year...

CHO: It certainly has.

STARR: ... and local officials are quite concerned. Tell us what's been going on in Philadelphia.

CHO: Well, it's been quite extraordinary, but so much focus, Barbara, has been paid to the Schiavo case that not a lot of attention has been paid to what's going on in Philadelphia. You are absolutely right. There has been more than 20 murders in 10 days. Something like more than 80 homicides, more than 60 of them gun-related this year, a sharp increase over last year.

What has happened as a result is the mayor, John Street, has gotten together with the governor, Ed Rendell, who was once the mayor of Philadelphia himself. He said to him, listen, we need to limit the amount of gun permits that are issued in Philadelphia, and throughout the state for that matter.

The problem is this -- the state legislature is predominantly Republican. And many of those state legislators, including one man we spoke to, said, listen, this is an urban issue, it's a problem but it's an urban issue. And we shouldn't be limiting gun owner's rights; what we should be doing is making sure that the people who commit these crimes are sentenced and remain in jail for the maximum sentence.

ARCE: Alina, any other theories on why the crime rate seems to be rising in Philadelphia when in other big cities, they are still talking about figures going down?

CHO: Well, that is the $25,000 question, Rose. We always (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that. The police won't say. We have asked them repeatedly, and what they say about this is that it appears that these are random acts of violence. We did speak to one woman who lives in a particularly tough area of town in north Philly, and she is a woman who lost her 16-year-old son to gun violence last summer. Of course, as a result of that, she says, in fact, I live in fear. And what she does is she walks her 7-year-old daughter to school every day, to and from. It's only four blocks, but that is the one little thing, little proactive measure that she can take to help her feel a little bit better about what has happened, because her greatest fear now is losing another child.

ARCE: That's a troubling threshold to pass.

Well, it's hard to find anyone who doesn't have an opinion on Terri Schiavo's fate. I'm on that story just ahead.

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BRIAN LEHRER, WNYC TALK SHOW HOST: This is kind of the perfect talk radio storm. You have the personal and the political all coming together.

(END VIDEO CLIP) ARCE: New York City radio talk show host Brian Lehrer of WNYC, on why the private ordeal of Terri Schiavo story and her family is the number one topic from the airwaves to office water coolers across America.

Welcome back. I'm Rose Arce. We're ON THE STORY.

CHO: Rose, it's Alina here. Why do you think this story has so captivated the nation? What is it about it?

ARCE: When people call into these talk shows, one of the first things I hear them say is, my mother, my husband, my child -- I know my own mother called me yesterday morning to kind of yell over the phone about this story and say that she wants to throw stones at all these judges.

People feel this very personal. They relate it to their own family. They relate it to the death of their parents, to their ailing spouse. You know, it is something that just transcends a typical story where you might look at it and say, oh, I might some day be in that situation. People are saying, they know they are going to be in this kind of situation or they've been in it before. And it strikes them very personally.

And it has also transcended all sorts of personal and public discussion and gone into the political realm. Let's take a listen to what Randall Terry, a spokesman for the Schiavo family -- meaning her parents -- said just a few days ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RANDALL TERRY, SPOKESMAN, TERRI SCHIAVO'S PARENTS: If she dies, there's going to be hell to pay with the pro-life, pro-family, Republican people of various legislative levels, statewide and federal-wide, who have used pro-life, pro-family, conservative rhetoric to get into power, and then when they have that power, they refuse to use it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: Rose, this certainly has started a national conversation about death, if you will.

ARCE: Absolutely.

STARR: But has also, as we see from Randall Terry and his background in the pro-life movement, brought them back to the forefront of that national conversation, certainly in one respect. Do you -- is there going to be a resurgence of that movement now, given the Schiavo case?

ARCE: Well, I think that's certainly what Randall Terry and his supporters are hoping for. You might remember that way back when, Randall Terry was probably one of the most, I should say, prominent, vociferous folks on the issue of the anti-abortion movement. And then he kind of disappeared from view a little bit. He had some conflicts with his church; he had some conflicts later with his family, and he's been a little bit quieter. This has been kind of a comeback for him. He's now the spokesman for Terri Schiavo's parents. A lot of other right to lifers have joined with him, that were not necessarily allies of each other or of him, and this has been an opportunity for them to link some very important conservative Christian issues and put them on the national landscape.

BASH: And Rose, talking obviously about Randall Terry, of course, the opponents of Randall Terry, and people like him, say that if you look at that, this is, from their point of view, perhaps, a case in point of why this is inherently a political issue, that you have people who have for years and years worked for the right to life movement essentially inserting themselves -- he is the family spokesman here, right?

ARCE: Well, yes. I think that one thing you are seeing also is that he has some pretty harsh words for people both on the left and on the right of this issue. This is not a case where he and his forces have kind of allied themselves just against, say, liberal judges. This is one common target of people in the right to life moment and people in the anti-abortion movement.

He has also been very critical, for instance, of Jeb Bush, because he said he gave the family false hope. As you heard from that soundbite, he has lashed out at Republican politicians, and said, we stood by you during these elections, because we believe that you believe our very conservative, Christian faith point of view, and now that we need you, how come you haven't come through for us?

CHO: Rose, I'm curious a little bit more about what you were hearing on the talk shows. I know you listen to a lot of radio talk shows. A lot of people I have talked to have said, listen, no matter how you feel on the issue, I'm going to go out and get myself a living will, and I am wondering if you've heard a lot of talk about that.

ARCE: I have to say, that was the first thing that came to mind when I got off the phone with my mother yesterday, and I thought to myself, these are not really things that you sit around the living room talking about it. You know, on the talk shows, it reflects that. People are saying things like, wow, I don't think I have ever discussed this with my husband, or I have never -- you know, I don't know what my parents would do, would they challenge my wife or my brothers who know me pretty well about, you know, this fundamental decision, this very, very critical decision about how I die? And yes, I think people talk about going to Web sites, they will give you the address for the Web site on the talk shows. And I know that there's at least one Web site that I had heard of that has experienced this absolute rush of traffic of people who want to have a living will and want to make it clear to their family members how exactly they would like to spend their final hours, and what, you know, they think should be the limit as to how far the family should go at keeping them alive.

STARR: Well, you know, because death is, of course, one of the most personal decisions a person might make, how they choose to die if they are in some sort of terminal state. It's interesting -- of course, we in this business, cable television, talk radio, we have seen so many stories become that national conversation, and then they pass from the scene. This one, Rose, seems to have some persistence because of the very personal nature of it.

ARCE: Absolutely, and because of the extraordinary reaction that there has been at the political level. I think that a lot of Americans watched this story, and at first maybe they wanted to turn away a little bit. You don't want to think about death, you don't want to think of these terrible family conflicts. But as it's gotten larger and larger, and they've seen the president's involvement, they've seen the involvement of churches, of legislators, you know, they have seen the agony of all members of this family, they begin to think about their own situation. And again, it's not something that you can escape. It's not something you want to think about, but at the same time it transcends kind of that story of the day stuff. This touches everybody.

BASH: Well, Rose, it certainly does touch everybody, and we will certainly be watching. We will be right back ON THE STORY in a moment.

ANNOUNCER: An artist unveils a tribute to fallen soldiers this week. What's her story? More when we return.

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ANNOUNCER: Annette Polan, what's her story? Sold and organized "Faces of the Fallen," an exhibit at Arlington Cemetery, honoring U.S. servicemen and women killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. The exhibit features portraits of more than 1,300 soldiers, made from oil, clay, glass and cloth.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNETTE POLAN, ARTIST: It has the ability to bring people together from different points of view, in sympathy, in honor, in love. There is a tremendous amount of love going into this project.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: A professor at Corcoran College in Washington, D.C., Polan painted nine of the portraits, and was assisted by her students and other local artists.

BASH: Thanks to my colleagues and thank you for watching ON THE STORY this Easter Sunday. We'll be back next week. At 11:30 a.m. Eastern, 8:30 Pacific, "RELIABLE SOURCES" looks at the media coverage of religion and morality in the Terri Schiavo case. And at 12:00 noon Eastern, 9:00 a.m. Pacific, "LATE EDITION" with Wolf Blitzer will have an exclusive interview with the commanding general of U.S. Central Command, John Abizaid. "LIVE SUNDAY" starts right now.

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