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On the Story
Tom DeLay in Trouble; Iraqi Insurgents Remain a Deadly Threat
Aired April 24, 2005 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to CNN's ON THE STORY, where our journalist have the inside word on the stories we covered this week. I'm Candy Crowley on the story of Tom DeLay, politics, money and power.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: I'm Barbara Starr, on the story of how the shootdown of a civilian chopper in Iraq is fresh evidence that insurgents remain a deadly threat.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I'm Suzanne Malveaux in Crawford, Texas, on the story of President Bush blaming politics for the rocky confirmation road of John Bolton.
KATHLEEN HAYS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Kathleen Hays, on the story of Wall Street whiplash this week.
Also coming up, we'll go to Rome and Vatican analyst Delia Gallagher on what she saw earlier today at the investiture mass for the new pope.
We'll talk about the woman behind the design of the building that replaced the one destroyed in the Oklahoma City bombing.
And at the end of the hour, our "What's Her Story?" segment. Now an Egyptian woman made an early delivery at Kennedy Airport. E-mail us at onthestory@cnn.com.
Now straight to Candy and Tom DeLay.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. TOM DELAY (R-TX), MAJORITY LEADER: Freedom, ladies and gentlemen -- God gives it. The Constitution guarantees it. And together, we will defend it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CROWLEY: Along the way, House of Representatives Majority Leader Tom DeLay is defending himself. The man considered the second most powerful Republican in Washington is at the center of a political struggle over conservatism, money and ethics.
MALVEAUX: And Candy, I think it's rather ironic -- a lot of people before, at least outside of Washington, really didn't know who Tom DeLay was, but now with all of these questions surrounding his ethics and possible hearings, they are asking who is this man? He has a very interesting background.
CROWLEY: He does. I mean, this is a great story for the personality involved as well as the controversies that are surrounding him.
This is a man who began as a bug exterminator in Texas. He got so mad at the EPA for regulations that he decided to run for office. He called the EPA "the Gestapo of the government." So he went into the state legislature in Texas as this, you know, anti-regulation, smaller government, lower taxes, Texas conservative. He was a hard drinking, you know, hard partying kind of guy. Came to Washington about 20 years ago. Elected as a U.S. representative here. Had a Christian conversion following a tape that he saw about the meaning of fatherhood, and immediately became a born-again Christian, he -- which we see now in his everyday talk. We see in the issues that he pursues.
He built himself up. He passed out favors in terms of helping people get elected. He sent them cookies when he was trying to be whip of the House of Representatives. So when someone would come along and try to become a Republican in a district, Tom DeLay would send out a care package. And it would have pencils and papers and homemade cookies.
So this is a man who climbed to the top. He's a prodigious fund- raiser. As I said, the second most powerful Republican in Washington. A very long way from the bug business.
STARR: But, Candy, we have seen this so many times in Washington, drip drip, drip of an ethics problem once it starts to emerge. In this case, are the Republicans going to stick behind him? Are they really going to support him?
CROWLEY: They are really going to support him until it looks like they are losing support in their home district. I mean, that's just the quickest way to say it.
Look, this man has very deep loyalties, people he helped get elected. He is the major reason the House has stayed Republican, the major reason the House became Republican. He went and he -- you know, campaigned in a lot of these districts. He sent the money from his political funds. So there's a deep loyalty there, if not a lot of deep friendship. So they really do feel loyalty to Tom DeLay. But I'll tell you, if they go home to their district and people are talking about, well, Tom DeLay, I mean, what is this guy all about? He became this public face in the Terri Schiavo affair. And it backfired on Republicans. I mean, the public did not like that, and he was the face of that. So if it begins to hurt them, that's when you'll see them beginning to peel off.
HAYS: So, the Democrats are licking their chops. They absolutely love this. They want to keep it going. So does it even matter, the technicalities? Does it even matter what he really did or didn't do? Or is it simply now the public perception? I get very confused in this story, the details versus the momentum against him. CROWLEY: Well, look, a couple of things. It matters if he's broken a law or violated ethics rules, because that spells the end of his (INAUDIBLE).
HAYS: The Democrats say -- I mean, the Republicans say Dems do it too.
CROWLEY: Absolutely. Absolutely. So That all needs to be figured out.
But in the meantime, I have never seen such raw open politics. I mean, you have people telling you usually behind the scenes, listen, Tom DeLay, they want to make him into Newt Gingrich. They want him to be the demon of the 2006 election so that they can take the Republican candidate and morph him into Tom DeLay and say, do you really want this guy running, you know, the House, vote Democratic?
And they are now saying in public, listen to Chuck Schumer. We hope listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: For the sake of America, I hope Tom DeLay stops this campaign. For the sake of Democrats, it's not so bad if he continues, because the public, when they smell that whiff of abuse of power, when they smell that whiff of extremism, my way or no way, no matter what the process is, automatically goes to the other side.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: So, shoot!
CROWLEY: There it is. And I mean, no one is pretending it's anything other than that. And so it is in the Democrats' interest to keep this thing going. And you know, there's another report in "The Washington Post" today, which brings these ethics questions closer and closer and closer to Tom DeLay. The drip is great with them.
MALVEAUX: And, Candy, there's one other thing, of course, that Democrats seem to be salivating over, throwing red meat, if you will, and that of course is the controversy over President Bush's nomination for the United Nations, Ambassador John Bolton. Do you see the Democrats somehow being split in their attention here? Does it take away from their focus on DeLay? Do they feel that perhaps it pushes it to the back burner, because there's so much focus, so much controversy on this Bolton nomination? Or does it work for them?
CROWLEY: Well, in a lot of ways, the Senate side has been focused on John Bolton. That's their -- that's in their bailiwick. And so that has blown up this week, Suzanne, as you know. The Tom DeLay thing is much more of a slow moving train wreck here. This is something that is ongoing. It has been ongoing.
And you listen to congressmen say, well, we've been -- you know, these -- four times last year, three times last year I guess Tom DeLay was at least warned by the Ethics Committee, sort of admonished. Boy, you were pretty close to the line here. Absolutely no traction to that. But now at the end of the year, beginning of this year, becoming the face of Terri Schiavo...
HAYS: Quick question, though. Does it make a difference to the Republican agenda, to Bush's agenda if DeLay is gone?
CROWLEY: Oh, I think so. He is -- it is hard to overstate Tom DeLay's role in building this Republican majority. It is not just on Capitol Hill. Former aides, former staffers, allies, all of them all over K Street with the lobbyists and the trade associations, it is very hard to underestimate how Tom DeLay has helped this Republican majority coalesce. I think they'd miss him.
STARR: And again this week, another political issue, if not a military one, Iraq. Iraq continues now this week to intrude on the political scene, especially this week, as insurgents claimed fresh victims, civilians and U.S. military and Iraqis. I'm back on that story after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY DIRITA, PENTAGON SPOKESMAN: Nobody denies that there's been a slight increase in the violence in the last week or two.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: Larry DiRita at the Pentagon briefing Thursday, as the U.S. military tries to evaluate what happened in Iraq this week. Did the deadly attack signal new strength of the insurgents and new threats to civilians and military alike? Welcome back. I'm Barbara Starr. We're ON THE STORY.
HAYS: Slight uptick in violence, but you know, I would think that the Pentagon is a bit more concerned about that, can the troops come home, the new Iraqi government stalling. This -- (INAUDIBLE) violence seems to be downplaying this just a bit.
STARR: It was a very difficult week, maybe even a very difficult two weeks. We now seem to have the election lull over. No one is talking peace is at hand. That's not a popular view to have at the moment as the attacks continue literally day by day now.
CROWLEY: So have they figured out whether this is an increase in strength by the insurgents? Is this laxness on the part? And I also note that the deaths are primarily Iraqi at this point.
STARR: The Iraqis are continuing to bear the brunt of the violence from the insurgents. And this whole question of whether, you know, attacks are up, attacks are down, what does it all mean? Iraq is such a difficult assessment to make. Everything is fine unless there's a bullet coming your way, unless you are rolling over an IED. And I don't mean that facetiously. It's a very, very difficult situation. The U.S. military continues to believe at the highest levels that the long-term trend is positive, that they will get the peace they are looking for in Iraq.
But I had a very senior general, who has spent a lot of time in that country, tell me this week that it would be just expletive- deleted silly to have anybody say they've broken the back of the insurgency or they've turned the corner. He says he's not ready to say that yet. He expects fully to see this ebb and flow continue.
So while it's on the rise, nobody is talking about bringing the troops home, that's for sure.
MALVEAUX: And, Barbara, of course, a very important story that was -- just came out a couple of days ago, the controversial over the Abu Ghraib prison investigation that the Army did. A lot of people, some Democrats, congressmen, as well as those who are representing lower-level soldiers involved in that whole incident, were not happy with the results that cleared like four out of five of those top officials.
STARR: Indeed, Suzanne. The Army inspector general now saying that no senior official in the Army, except for Brigadier General Janice Karpinski, the head of the MP unit possibly, will really be held accountable for the detainee abuse in Iraq. Not just at Abu Ghraib, but across the country.
It is going to be very difficult to see how the Army can really stick to that. You know, there is -- how can you -- dozens of people now implicated in all of this. And yet the Army continues to say that basically it was a bunch of guys on the night shift at Abu Ghraib.
HAYS: When you read the report, and the conclusion of the report, they do place some blame. They do say that there were missteps, but stop short of doing anything that would hurt these upper senior officers' careers. That's what the -- so that's another reason I think it is kind of hard to sort out where this is going.
But Congress doesn't seem to be entirely happy with this.
STARR: Congress has not signed off on this by any shot at the moment. Senator John Warner, chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, one of the administration and military most's ardent supporters, issued a statement late Friday night saying that his committee is not done with this issue. They expect to have hearings. They want to know a lot more about the accountability question.
CROWLEY: I want to get you quickly to talk about an anniversary coming up: Desert One. Both a political, actually, and a military anniversary. I want to ask you about where the military thinks it has come since that horrible day in the desert.
STARR: Extraordinary to think that it's been 25 years since Desert One, the failed rescue mission of the American hostages out of Tehran. Many military people will tell you that that was the low point for U.S. Special Forces after Vietnam, that that was the disaster night for them. And out of that wreckage, they have built a Special Forces capability that they have today. Many of them say that the success of Special Forces in Iraq and Afghanistan was born out of that night. And we will have an interview tomorrow with the Army chief of staff, General Peter Schoomaker, the head of the U.S. Army, who as a young captain 25 years ago was on the ground in Iran in Desert Storm (sic), leading one of the commando teams that night; now the head of the U.S. Army.
CROWLEY: From Iraq and Washington, we're going to turn to Rome. A special mass this morning as cardinals honor the man they selected this week as pope. Our Vatican analyst Delia Gallagher is back ON THE STORY in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CROWLEY: Old rituals, new pope. And amidst the pomp and ceremony, maybe a few hints of how Benedict will present himself to the world. CNN's Vatican analyst Delia Gallagher is on the story and joins us live.
So Delia, you know, we are now on the pope watch. What sort of pope is he going to be? What can you tell us from looking at today's ceremony, from the things he said about what direction he's headed?
DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Well, I think in the first instance, you can just see it. You can see the difference between Pope Benedict XVI and Pope John Paul II. Pope Benedict is an intellectual. He's quiet. He is reserved. He's not yet entirely comfortable on the world stage and perhaps never will be in the same way that John Paul II was.
However, we do already know quite a lot about this pope. We know that he's a man of his firm convictions. He will continue in the line of John Paul II. But he has hinted at some of the dialogue that he would like to take place. And one of the main ways that that's going to take place is within the Catholic Church, restructuring some of the offices here at the Vatican. He's been here for 24 years. He knows well what needs to be done. And I think that that is going to be one of his top priorities, to restructure those offices, tighten them up, get some good men around him as collaborators, and I think that we will see a sort of trickle-down effect then through the bishops, who will feel a renewed sense of decision-making here and being involved with what is happening at the Vatican. And that will go down into the parishes.
So I think that we will see some changes happening under this pope.
STARR: Delia, under Pope John Paul II, we saw so much of a public effort at least to reach out to other religions. To Jews, to the Islamic world, to the Eastern church. This pope, of course, has a history of public writings that don't quite match up to the public efforts that John Paul made. What do we expect from him now reaching out to other religions as Pope Benedict?
GALLAGHER: Well, of course, the first thing we should say is that Cardinal Ratzinger's public writings were written under the papacy of John Paul II. So whatever was written was also approved by John Paul II, and therefore reflected his thoughts.
So one can look at, for example, Dominus Iesus, this sort of controversial statement that only salvation is found through Jesus Christ. Well, in the eyes of John Paul II and Cardinal Ratzinger at the time, that was simply a statement of what their faith is. And I think that the understanding that Pope Benedict has of dialogue with other religions is that you present your beliefs, your truths, and the others can present theirs, and there can be a sort of respect. Dialogue doesn't necessarily mean that we have to agree on all the issues, but we do have to respect our respective beliefs. And the only way to do that is to outline them very clearly.
So we saw already in his homily today, he mentioned the Jewish people. He mentioned unity within the other religions. I think it will be absolutely on the top of his agenda, to reach out to those people, but reaching out maintaining always this firm conviction of this is what I stand for, this is what the Catholic Church stands for. And therefore, we can have some sort of a dialogue.
MALVEAUX: Delia, I actually got a chance to see some of that mass this morning, about 4:00 in the morning here from Crawford, Texas, but tell us what was it like to be there, to actually be a part of that? What did that feel like?
GALLAGHER: Well, you know, it's been an amazing month all together. It's hard to believe it's all gone by so quickly. Only last month we were talking about the illness of John Paul II, the great suffering, this very somber mood. And the crowds that were coming out to support him, to cheer him on, very enthusiastic because of this ailing pope.
Then we had that private sort of event of the conclave, and kind of mysterious, and a look inside the Sistine Chapel. Beautiful pictures there and never before seen. The cardinals going into the Sistine Chapel for this event that nobody really knew what was going on. And I'll tell you that all of the analysts here, even though Cardinal Ratzinger was a frontrunner, weren't really imagining that he would actually become pope. So the cardinals surprised everybody, I think, by making that choice, and perhaps even surprised themselves in some sense that they were so unanimous in their choice for Cardinal Ratzinger.
So then today, we have the inaugural mass, which was more somber. More somber than we are used to seeing in the piazza. I think because, again, still a kind of curious crowd, tentative steps from Pope Benedict, who is not yet a world player on this big stage, doesn't go out and kiss the babies and greet the people. He did a little small turn in the piazza with his popemobile, as it were, but not the same charisma yet of John Paul II.
But he's a very different man. He's a different personality. It will be a different papacy from the public stage.
HAYS: Delia, you mentioned how maybe the cardinals surprised themselves. There were many Catholics in the United States who might even say were disappointed with the selection of this pope, because they don't see him as someone who is open to concerns of many modern Catholics. The sex abuse scandal, the question of the role of the laity, the question of maybe giving women a crack at the priesthood. What's the attitude in Rome towards this sense you get out of American Catholics? Are they sympathetic, or do they think American Catholics should stop whining and start supporting the new pope?
GALLAGHER: Well, let me tell you, obviously American Catholics will be divided. There are many very happy American Catholics. Cardinal Ratzinger has always been popular in conservative circles, and so there are many people that are very happy for the election of this pope.
I do find it interesting, my colleague John Allen talked to Cardinal George yesterday, and Cardinal George said that two days before the conclave, he was talking to Cardinal Ratzinger about the sex abuse norms, and saying why they needed them in the United States and sort of explaining a little bit more that issue to him. And when the cardinal was elected pope, when Cardinal George went up to Pope Benedict, who announced his sort of solemn vow of obedience to him, he sort of said it in a broken German, and the pope responded to him in English, and he said "I remember our conversation and I will take care of it." This is a reference to the conversation about the sex abuse norms.
So I think with regard to that issue, for example, this pope is somebody who does know the issues that happened in the United States. In fact, in his very office at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, there is an office set up to look into those cases. So he is somebody very aware, perhaps more aware than a lot of the other cardinals from other parts of the world, about what was happening there. And we have his word now. He says "I will take care of it." So I think that's a good start for the American Catholics.
CROWLEY: Delia, I've spent a lot of time looking at politics and the mixing in of religion. This morning when I was watching, I sort of saw religion with a little mixing in of the politics. You mentioned that open air tour that he took. We're used to seeing that sort of enclosed popemobile, but he was out in the open. Seemed to me that there were things in his sermon that said, I am reaching out, I'm not the kind of person that's been depicted in some of the papers. How sensitive are they to the image of this pope?
GALLAGHER: Well, I do think you are absolutely right. He started out his homily by saying, how am I going to handle this job? I am a useless servant of God. And then he says, I am not alone, I have all of you. So there was a very public message there for help from the public.
On the other hand, I don't think we should give the appreciation that, you know, he's too worried about his public image. I mean, this is somebody who is concerned about transmitting a message of revelation, a message of the Christian faith. So I don't think that he is going to spend too much time worrying about the public image, although I do think it's significant that his first audience yesterday was with journalists.
So I think that he is learning how to use some of those means of communication, because in his prior job he didn't have to do that.
HAYS: Well, Delia Gallagher, I guess you have to like a pope who goes out of his way to talk to journalists. And thank you for talking to us today ON THE STORY. We look forward to working with you in the future.
Now, from Rome to Wall Street. I'm back on the story of what drove the stock market way down and then part of the way back.
How President Bush and Democrats are facing off over the next ambassador to the United Nations.
And how the new federal building in Oklahoma City must be both friendly and a fortress.
Plus, a check on what is making news right now. All ahead, all ON THE STORY.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. I'm Betty Nguyen at the CNN Center in Atlanta. "ON THE STORY" continues in just a moment, but first, here are the headlines right now in the news.
Iraq's violent weekend continued today. Two car bombs went off near the Iraqi Police Academy in Tikrit this morning. Six people were killed. Another 26 wounded. The second blast went off as police were responding to the first one. An American sailor died in a bomb blast during combat operations in Fallujah, and a member of Iraq's National Assembly narrowly escaped a suicide car bombing on the route between Mosul and Baghdad.
Syrian troops tore down former military outposts in Lebanon today, ending a nearly 30-year military presence there. A Syrian official has said that in the next few hours, all their troops would be out of Lebanon. At one point, as many as 40,000 Syrian troops were stationed there.
A man helping investigate alleged fraud in the United Nations oil-for-food program says he quit on principle. A report claimed that he had left the panel because his work was finished. The group found fault with Secretary-General Kofi Annan's management of that program, but did not accuse him of any corruption.
We will have more news in 30 minutes. Right now, more ON THE STORY.
HAYS: Those aren't just sounds of construction but one of the major engines that drives U.S. economy. And that home building engine seems to be quieting down a bit. Just one more economic number in a mixed up volatile week of numbers and stock market movements. Welcome back. I'm Kathleen Hays. We're ON THE STORY. CROWLEY: I know we want to talk about the stock market, but every time I look at the figures, it shows most people, their biggest investment is their house. All I've read for the last two or three weeks, housing bubble, housing bubble. It's all going to burst. Our house value is going to be cut in half. Is there a housing bubble?
HAYS: It all mixes together, because the stock market watches the housing market, and the housing market is watching the interest rates, because it all really does come together.
The housing bubble, we don't know. Because it feels like a bubble. Home prices shot up so quickly. But you don't mind the bubble on the way up. What you worry about is if the bubble pops, and if the home prices come tumbling down. And that's why we watch that housing starts number. It was down almost 18 percent. It was the biggest drop in about 14 years.
But the weather was really, really bad. A lot of economists said, let's look at a couple more numbers before we really get completely worried about the number. You can see it on the screen now.
But interest rates, interest rates, interest rates. Mortgage rates. That is the key. And right now, long-term bond yields, which determine that 30-year fixed mortgage rate, have stayed amazingly low, even as Wall Street gets more and more worried about inflation.
And that was the other big number this week, because the inflation number was much bigger than expected. And that's what really drove the market down midweek.
STARR: So why -- do people have an understanding of why that mortgage rate is not going up even as the Fed has raised other rates?
HAYS: Well, partly because if the Fed is raising rates, they do that to fight inflation. That's the basic thing. You don't want the economy to go too fast. You are not sure if energy prices are going to cause inflation, or if energy places are going to eat into disposable income, eat into family income and slow the economy down.
But the Fed is raising rates so it reassures investors that inflation won't get out of control. The Fed keeps calling it a conundrum. People on Wall Street go, darn, these long-term rates should be rising, but they haven't.
It's good for the housing market. It's good for your investments. And Candy, as long as it stays that way, then probably the housing market, that's what most experts say, it may slow down, it may cool off, but it won't crash. And that's what worries most families, I think.
MALVEAUX: Kathleen, we keep seeing the gas prices again go up and up. I know that tomorrow President Bush is going to be meeting with Saudi's Crown Prince Abdullah in Crawford at his ranch, of course, to talk about that. Perhaps the role of the Saudis, what they can do about this. But what are we seeing here? What are the kinds of actors? Are we going to see these prices go down soon?
HAYS: Doesn't look like it, does it? Because we had oil prices down back to about $50 a barrel by the end of this week. They were back above 55. And remember, the main thing that goes into the gas tank is the crude oil. It's about half the price.
We saw this week -- you know, we Americans are kind of contradictory. We complain and complain about gas prices, and there's no doubt that they hurt low-income families the most, because they pay the biggest percent of their monthly paycheck to fill their fuel tank. And if they're commuters, it's even worse. But even with these high gas prices, demand is still strong in the United States, in China, and in fact there's a big number now watched on Wall Street, inventories. And the gasoline inventories continue to fall at a time when you are trying to build them up ahead of the summer driving season. So Suzanne, it doesn't look like we're going to see much relief at all, because we're so close to summertime, and that's when you see even more pressure. So you just have to cut back someplace else.
(CROSSTALK)
CROWLEY: I filled my son's SUV the other day, $48. I about fell on the floor. Why are we seeing any kind of corresponding let's all go to little cars or hybrids? Or it seems to me I still see more SUVs than anything else. Why don't Americans respond to this?
HAYS: Money. Dollars and cents. It costs more, but to drive a Ford Explorer, four-wheel drive Ford Explorer, the average annual fuel cost is over $2,000. To drive a Toyota Corolla, which gets over 30 miles to the gallon, much more fuel-efficient, about twice as fuel- efficient, you only save like $1,100. You save less than $100 a month to make that switch.
I think that's why many experts feel that Americans won't change their habits much, and particularly not the middle-income and more affluent Americans won't change their habits much, unless the price gets a lot higher.
And think about it, if you are a low-income American, you are stuck with whatever you are driving. Chances are you can't afford to go out and buy a shiny new fuel-efficient car. So it just isn't happening yet.
STARR: And against this backdrop of summertime economics, all of that, the Fed chairman had a bit of doom-and-gloom longer-term view about the promises that have been made about the economy.
HAYS: That's right. Now he is saying not only does he think Social Security benefits will have to be pared back, but he thinks that baby boomers have also been overpromised on Medicare. And he's even questioning where the money for that is going to come from.
A bright note -- let's get a bright night from the Federal Reserve. None of them seem to be worried about the economy slowing down. And none of them seem to be worried about inflation. They think it's all about energy prices, a kind of a temporary impact, the economy can absorb it and probably be OK. They are watching closely, but I think that's what's significant.
While Greenspan has his eye on these big long-term problems, he's not seeming to be too worried about the short-term problem that seems to have Wall Street quite concerned right now.
MALVEAUX: And, of course, the White House concerned as well. We're going from the economy to another bitter political battle for President Bush; that is over his nomination of United Nations Ambassador John Bolton. I'll have more on that story coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Sometimes politics gets in the way of doing the people's business. I urge the Senate to put aside politics and confirm John Bolton to the United Nations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: Well, presidents certainly have to pick their battles, and President Bush certainly decided that this is one that is worth sticking with, John Bolton. Of course, long-time diplomat, but also as well a political operative, one who has also made a lot of enemies over those years. I'm Suzanne Malveaux, on that story.
CROWLEY: Suzanne, you know, I'm tempted to say if they are going to now disqualify from office everyone who is mean to their staff, the town would clear out. However, there's a little more that than -- than just John Bolton being mean. What most worries the White House at this point? I'm assuming they are worried.
MALVEAUX: Well, the White House is very concerned. And really, we got a chance to see that, because when the president of the United States comes out and says that this is my man, I'm sticking by him. When he actually has to do that, you know that people are worried.
A lot of things happened this week. Where the night before he came out, they've said, look, if he does not come out, this nomination is dead. We saw at least now there are four Republican senators who are asking questions about Bolton's nomination.
Also, the role of the former Secretary of State Colin Powell, who has been talking to senators on that committee, Senator Hagel as well as Senator Chafee saying that, look, you know, he has not endorsed Bolton. There's been a lot of accomplishments Bolton has made, but a lot of problems, too. He has ruffled a lot of feathers in Washington.
Now, of course, the White House is very concerned about whether or not, you know, they have put their man on the line. They put their reputation on the line here. I talked to some people, high-level officials who say, look, it was just a couple of days ago they were talking about low staffers, low-level staffers at the White House who were trying to twist the arms of these Republicans. We are now talking about high-level people in the White House who are having those discussions. Not at the level of the president yet, but certainly very high-level discussions.
HAYS: Well, and when you see that Republicans themselves are questioning, as you are saying, when you see that Colin Powell is apparently having conversations about his misgivings, you know, you wonder. Is it politics being played, or is this somebody that at this point they would just do better off cutting their losses and moving on?
MALVEAUX: That's a very good question, and really something that just happened over the weekend, just yesterday, is that yet another person came forward. A subordinate of Bolton came forward, a woman by the name of Lynne Finney, who wrote a letter to Democratic Senator Barbara Boxer, saying she worked with Bolton back in the '80s; he threatened to fire her over a dispute. Her desk was moved into a windowless basement office. That he yelled at her. That she had corroboration by actually her supervisor, the head of USAID, McPherson, at the time.
And you know, I spoke with McPherson, and he said, look, I don't recall this story. I spoke with somebody at the State Department who said, look, there's nothing that actually backs her story.
But the real question here is, how -- what is it going to take here? How many people before this either sinks or survives? It may just count -- it may just depend on that, how many people come forward, whether or not you can corroborate their stories at all. So they are still trying to determine whether or not this is going to survive.
But a lot of people I talked to are not very optimistic about this.
STARR: Well, Suzanne, Bolton may be a crabby guy, and certainly Washington is full of them, but there are more substantive issues here that the White House doesn't really seem to be addressing yet, and that -- that is the allegations that have surfaced that Bolton tried to pressure the intelligence community, pressure the CIA to come to his point of view about several key intelligence issues, specifically about whether Cuba was trying to develop biological weapons, and also North Korea's nuclear program. The White House doesn't seem to be quite addressing those issues yet.
MALVEAUX: They are not addressing those issues at all, Barbara. What they are saying is that they say that all of this is unsubstantiated. They say -- and when you ask them specifically, well, what kind of evidence do you have? Are you conducting your own investigation here? Why are you so confident of this? They don't say that they are actually taking a look at the facts themselves, but they say that they believe Bolton, that if you take a look at the testimony at the hearings, what he has said, the kinds of answers that he has given to these questions, they are standing by him and his statements. So it's going to be very interesting to see whether or not this committee can actually poke holes in some of those arguments, the case that he is making.
CROWLEY: Suzanne, I suspect we will talk about this next week as well.
From the presidential beat to Oklahoma City, which this weeks marked the 10-year anniversary of the bombing that destroyed the Murrah federal building. Coming up, I'm ON THE STORY of the architect, a woman called to rebuild. We're back in a moment.
ANNOUNCER: Candy Crowley, CNN's senior political correspondent, received this year's Joan S. Barone Award for excellence in journalism at the Radio and Television Correspondents Association dinner. She shared the award with her producers, Mike Roselli and Sasha Johnson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROWLEY: Without them, I wouldn't be standing here. I thank them publicly. Everybody should be so lucky. I thank all of the editors and the camera people and the sound people at CNN. They are a terrific group. They are dedicated. They believe in real journalism. So do I. Thank you all very much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAROL ROSS BARNEY, ARCHITECT: They wanted to be able to design buildings where you would be able to remove one major structural member without causing the building to fail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CROWLEY: Architect Carol Ross Barney talking about the challenge in our age of terrorism to build something solid, secure, but at the same time functional and friendly. She designed the new federal office building in Oklahoma City. This week marked 10 years since the terrorist bomb there killed 168 people.
Welcome back. I'm Candy Crowley. We are ON THE STORY.
STARR: Candy, this woman took on an extraordinary job. And we know nothing about her. Where is she from? How did she come to this point?
CROWLEY: Chicago. Had not, you know, designed any buildings outside the immediate area. Born and raised in Chicago. And got this through the government, through the GSA, through all the steps that they take. Her design was picked. She built this building.
It was really interesting. She said, I knew nothing about Oklahoma. And the one thing she said to me was, I wanted this building to be about the totality of Oklahoma, not about a single moment. And you know, she didn't want a monument. There is a monument. She needed an office building. And she didn't want it to look like a fortress. And one of the interesting things that the former head of GSA architecture said was listen, a government building is the symbol of a government's relationship to its people. So you can't build a penitentiary. You have to build one that says we're open, we're accessible, but you also got to be safe.
HAYS: But that's one of the reasons why this story is so interesting, Candy, because in it, you put together another important aspect, the special demands for architects building potential targets in an age of terrorism. So now, we're going to take a look at more of you and the architect ON THE STORY.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROWLEY: When you were designing this building, did you say to yourself, you know what I would love to do, but I can't do that because that would...
BARNEY: No, actually, we did the opposite. We'd say, you know what we'd love to do? How can we do that and still meet the security requirement.
CROWLEY (voice-over): On three sides of the building, the reinforced walls are unforgiving concrete, made with Oklahoma rocks.
BARNEY: The stone is integral in the wall. It's part of the wall. It's not applied to the wall.
CROWLEY (on camera): So it doesn't come shooting out, essentially.
BARNEY: Right. Yes. So it's not fastened to the wall. It's part of the wall.
CROWLEY (voice-over): Part of the courtyard is a babbling stream filled with boulders from a nearby buffalo ranch.
BARNEY: You can see our eating area out there. That's inside security. So in a way, this is a modern mote, but it's beautiful.
CROWLEY: From the southeast corner of the new federal building, you can see the monument grounds where the Murrah building once stood. The offices belonged to Housing and Urban Development, the department that lost the most that day in April of 1995.
BARNEY: (INAUDIBLE) for a space here is HUD. And they were just -- oh my God, they had a committee of survivors that were just terrified about coming back here. That's their training room. And they put it there. And so we said, well, aren't you worried about having training and having to look at the memorial? They said, we need blinds. They never close the blinds either. So I think that's good. I mean, if a building can heal -- help heal people, that's good.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY: I have to add that there were some people that just never wanted to come back. Just the thought of it. But a lot of HUD did come back. And in fact, you know, we talked to a lot of the people in that building, who said, you know, I don't really ever think about it. You know? I just come in. Now, some of them are new. But others said, I feel safe, I feel secure.
MALVEAUX: And, Candy, when they came back in the building, were there certain emotions? Or was it very -- an emotional experience for some people?
CROWLEY: Oh, absolutely. And still is. I mean, I don't know if you could tell in the pictures, but the building is sort of a semi- circle on one side. And there were people that said, I can't go back in, it reminds me of the bombed out part of the building.
But it's been 10 years. Obviously they are moving on. But you still have people who don't want to go into that building, who are, in fact, in buildings elsewhere. They moved all of the law enforcement out of there, because they felt those were the original targets. They are now in separate buildings, sort of, you know, putting targets around the city rather than all in one building.
So still a lot of healing to take place. But 10 years after, they are moving on. And they, too -- this architect did a lot of town hall meetings with the families of victims, with victims themselves. They also said, we don't want it to be a monument. And we don't want it to be all about security. You know, we want a building we can go and work and eat in and go home at night. So they -- still critics, still people that are really still look back at 10 years ago, but they are moving on.
STARR: So hard to believe that it has been 10 years since that day.
Well, we're back ON THE STORY after this.
ANNOUNCER: An Egyptian woman makes an unexpected delivery aboard an airplane. "What's Her Story?" More when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Rabab Ismaiel. "What's Her Story?" The Egyptian woman gave birth to a healthy baby girl just before her flight landed in New York. The crew put the newborn baby on a snack cart until the Egypt Air jet could land at JFK Airport.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was with the paramedics at Kennedy medical, and they were passing -- like inadvertently threw her to me. So that my partner, Joe, was -- had a lunch tray with the baby onboard, wrapped in a blanket.
ANNOUNCER: Ismaiel and her daughter were rushed to a hospital in Queens, where they were reunited with her husband.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY: Thank you to Suzanne, Barbara, Kathleen, all of my colleagues, and thank you for watching ON THE STORY. We will be back next week.
At noon Eastern time today, 9:00 a.m. Pacific, "LATE EDITION," with Senators Arlen Specter and Patrick Leahy. But straight ahead, a check on what's making news right now on "CNN LIVE SUNDAY."
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Aired April 24, 2005 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to CNN's ON THE STORY, where our journalist have the inside word on the stories we covered this week. I'm Candy Crowley on the story of Tom DeLay, politics, money and power.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: I'm Barbara Starr, on the story of how the shootdown of a civilian chopper in Iraq is fresh evidence that insurgents remain a deadly threat.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I'm Suzanne Malveaux in Crawford, Texas, on the story of President Bush blaming politics for the rocky confirmation road of John Bolton.
KATHLEEN HAYS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Kathleen Hays, on the story of Wall Street whiplash this week.
Also coming up, we'll go to Rome and Vatican analyst Delia Gallagher on what she saw earlier today at the investiture mass for the new pope.
We'll talk about the woman behind the design of the building that replaced the one destroyed in the Oklahoma City bombing.
And at the end of the hour, our "What's Her Story?" segment. Now an Egyptian woman made an early delivery at Kennedy Airport. E-mail us at onthestory@cnn.com.
Now straight to Candy and Tom DeLay.
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REP. TOM DELAY (R-TX), MAJORITY LEADER: Freedom, ladies and gentlemen -- God gives it. The Constitution guarantees it. And together, we will defend it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CROWLEY: Along the way, House of Representatives Majority Leader Tom DeLay is defending himself. The man considered the second most powerful Republican in Washington is at the center of a political struggle over conservatism, money and ethics.
MALVEAUX: And Candy, I think it's rather ironic -- a lot of people before, at least outside of Washington, really didn't know who Tom DeLay was, but now with all of these questions surrounding his ethics and possible hearings, they are asking who is this man? He has a very interesting background.
CROWLEY: He does. I mean, this is a great story for the personality involved as well as the controversies that are surrounding him.
This is a man who began as a bug exterminator in Texas. He got so mad at the EPA for regulations that he decided to run for office. He called the EPA "the Gestapo of the government." So he went into the state legislature in Texas as this, you know, anti-regulation, smaller government, lower taxes, Texas conservative. He was a hard drinking, you know, hard partying kind of guy. Came to Washington about 20 years ago. Elected as a U.S. representative here. Had a Christian conversion following a tape that he saw about the meaning of fatherhood, and immediately became a born-again Christian, he -- which we see now in his everyday talk. We see in the issues that he pursues.
He built himself up. He passed out favors in terms of helping people get elected. He sent them cookies when he was trying to be whip of the House of Representatives. So when someone would come along and try to become a Republican in a district, Tom DeLay would send out a care package. And it would have pencils and papers and homemade cookies.
So this is a man who climbed to the top. He's a prodigious fund- raiser. As I said, the second most powerful Republican in Washington. A very long way from the bug business.
STARR: But, Candy, we have seen this so many times in Washington, drip drip, drip of an ethics problem once it starts to emerge. In this case, are the Republicans going to stick behind him? Are they really going to support him?
CROWLEY: They are really going to support him until it looks like they are losing support in their home district. I mean, that's just the quickest way to say it.
Look, this man has very deep loyalties, people he helped get elected. He is the major reason the House has stayed Republican, the major reason the House became Republican. He went and he -- you know, campaigned in a lot of these districts. He sent the money from his political funds. So there's a deep loyalty there, if not a lot of deep friendship. So they really do feel loyalty to Tom DeLay. But I'll tell you, if they go home to their district and people are talking about, well, Tom DeLay, I mean, what is this guy all about? He became this public face in the Terri Schiavo affair. And it backfired on Republicans. I mean, the public did not like that, and he was the face of that. So if it begins to hurt them, that's when you'll see them beginning to peel off.
HAYS: So, the Democrats are licking their chops. They absolutely love this. They want to keep it going. So does it even matter, the technicalities? Does it even matter what he really did or didn't do? Or is it simply now the public perception? I get very confused in this story, the details versus the momentum against him. CROWLEY: Well, look, a couple of things. It matters if he's broken a law or violated ethics rules, because that spells the end of his (INAUDIBLE).
HAYS: The Democrats say -- I mean, the Republicans say Dems do it too.
CROWLEY: Absolutely. Absolutely. So That all needs to be figured out.
But in the meantime, I have never seen such raw open politics. I mean, you have people telling you usually behind the scenes, listen, Tom DeLay, they want to make him into Newt Gingrich. They want him to be the demon of the 2006 election so that they can take the Republican candidate and morph him into Tom DeLay and say, do you really want this guy running, you know, the House, vote Democratic?
And they are now saying in public, listen to Chuck Schumer. We hope listen.
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SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: For the sake of America, I hope Tom DeLay stops this campaign. For the sake of Democrats, it's not so bad if he continues, because the public, when they smell that whiff of abuse of power, when they smell that whiff of extremism, my way or no way, no matter what the process is, automatically goes to the other side.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: So, shoot!
CROWLEY: There it is. And I mean, no one is pretending it's anything other than that. And so it is in the Democrats' interest to keep this thing going. And you know, there's another report in "The Washington Post" today, which brings these ethics questions closer and closer and closer to Tom DeLay. The drip is great with them.
MALVEAUX: And, Candy, there's one other thing, of course, that Democrats seem to be salivating over, throwing red meat, if you will, and that of course is the controversy over President Bush's nomination for the United Nations, Ambassador John Bolton. Do you see the Democrats somehow being split in their attention here? Does it take away from their focus on DeLay? Do they feel that perhaps it pushes it to the back burner, because there's so much focus, so much controversy on this Bolton nomination? Or does it work for them?
CROWLEY: Well, in a lot of ways, the Senate side has been focused on John Bolton. That's their -- that's in their bailiwick. And so that has blown up this week, Suzanne, as you know. The Tom DeLay thing is much more of a slow moving train wreck here. This is something that is ongoing. It has been ongoing.
And you listen to congressmen say, well, we've been -- you know, these -- four times last year, three times last year I guess Tom DeLay was at least warned by the Ethics Committee, sort of admonished. Boy, you were pretty close to the line here. Absolutely no traction to that. But now at the end of the year, beginning of this year, becoming the face of Terri Schiavo...
HAYS: Quick question, though. Does it make a difference to the Republican agenda, to Bush's agenda if DeLay is gone?
CROWLEY: Oh, I think so. He is -- it is hard to overstate Tom DeLay's role in building this Republican majority. It is not just on Capitol Hill. Former aides, former staffers, allies, all of them all over K Street with the lobbyists and the trade associations, it is very hard to underestimate how Tom DeLay has helped this Republican majority coalesce. I think they'd miss him.
STARR: And again this week, another political issue, if not a military one, Iraq. Iraq continues now this week to intrude on the political scene, especially this week, as insurgents claimed fresh victims, civilians and U.S. military and Iraqis. I'm back on that story after this.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY DIRITA, PENTAGON SPOKESMAN: Nobody denies that there's been a slight increase in the violence in the last week or two.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: Larry DiRita at the Pentagon briefing Thursday, as the U.S. military tries to evaluate what happened in Iraq this week. Did the deadly attack signal new strength of the insurgents and new threats to civilians and military alike? Welcome back. I'm Barbara Starr. We're ON THE STORY.
HAYS: Slight uptick in violence, but you know, I would think that the Pentagon is a bit more concerned about that, can the troops come home, the new Iraqi government stalling. This -- (INAUDIBLE) violence seems to be downplaying this just a bit.
STARR: It was a very difficult week, maybe even a very difficult two weeks. We now seem to have the election lull over. No one is talking peace is at hand. That's not a popular view to have at the moment as the attacks continue literally day by day now.
CROWLEY: So have they figured out whether this is an increase in strength by the insurgents? Is this laxness on the part? And I also note that the deaths are primarily Iraqi at this point.
STARR: The Iraqis are continuing to bear the brunt of the violence from the insurgents. And this whole question of whether, you know, attacks are up, attacks are down, what does it all mean? Iraq is such a difficult assessment to make. Everything is fine unless there's a bullet coming your way, unless you are rolling over an IED. And I don't mean that facetiously. It's a very, very difficult situation. The U.S. military continues to believe at the highest levels that the long-term trend is positive, that they will get the peace they are looking for in Iraq.
But I had a very senior general, who has spent a lot of time in that country, tell me this week that it would be just expletive- deleted silly to have anybody say they've broken the back of the insurgency or they've turned the corner. He says he's not ready to say that yet. He expects fully to see this ebb and flow continue.
So while it's on the rise, nobody is talking about bringing the troops home, that's for sure.
MALVEAUX: And, Barbara, of course, a very important story that was -- just came out a couple of days ago, the controversial over the Abu Ghraib prison investigation that the Army did. A lot of people, some Democrats, congressmen, as well as those who are representing lower-level soldiers involved in that whole incident, were not happy with the results that cleared like four out of five of those top officials.
STARR: Indeed, Suzanne. The Army inspector general now saying that no senior official in the Army, except for Brigadier General Janice Karpinski, the head of the MP unit possibly, will really be held accountable for the detainee abuse in Iraq. Not just at Abu Ghraib, but across the country.
It is going to be very difficult to see how the Army can really stick to that. You know, there is -- how can you -- dozens of people now implicated in all of this. And yet the Army continues to say that basically it was a bunch of guys on the night shift at Abu Ghraib.
HAYS: When you read the report, and the conclusion of the report, they do place some blame. They do say that there were missteps, but stop short of doing anything that would hurt these upper senior officers' careers. That's what the -- so that's another reason I think it is kind of hard to sort out where this is going.
But Congress doesn't seem to be entirely happy with this.
STARR: Congress has not signed off on this by any shot at the moment. Senator John Warner, chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, one of the administration and military most's ardent supporters, issued a statement late Friday night saying that his committee is not done with this issue. They expect to have hearings. They want to know a lot more about the accountability question.
CROWLEY: I want to get you quickly to talk about an anniversary coming up: Desert One. Both a political, actually, and a military anniversary. I want to ask you about where the military thinks it has come since that horrible day in the desert.
STARR: Extraordinary to think that it's been 25 years since Desert One, the failed rescue mission of the American hostages out of Tehran. Many military people will tell you that that was the low point for U.S. Special Forces after Vietnam, that that was the disaster night for them. And out of that wreckage, they have built a Special Forces capability that they have today. Many of them say that the success of Special Forces in Iraq and Afghanistan was born out of that night. And we will have an interview tomorrow with the Army chief of staff, General Peter Schoomaker, the head of the U.S. Army, who as a young captain 25 years ago was on the ground in Iran in Desert Storm (sic), leading one of the commando teams that night; now the head of the U.S. Army.
CROWLEY: From Iraq and Washington, we're going to turn to Rome. A special mass this morning as cardinals honor the man they selected this week as pope. Our Vatican analyst Delia Gallagher is back ON THE STORY in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CROWLEY: Old rituals, new pope. And amidst the pomp and ceremony, maybe a few hints of how Benedict will present himself to the world. CNN's Vatican analyst Delia Gallagher is on the story and joins us live.
So Delia, you know, we are now on the pope watch. What sort of pope is he going to be? What can you tell us from looking at today's ceremony, from the things he said about what direction he's headed?
DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: Well, I think in the first instance, you can just see it. You can see the difference between Pope Benedict XVI and Pope John Paul II. Pope Benedict is an intellectual. He's quiet. He is reserved. He's not yet entirely comfortable on the world stage and perhaps never will be in the same way that John Paul II was.
However, we do already know quite a lot about this pope. We know that he's a man of his firm convictions. He will continue in the line of John Paul II. But he has hinted at some of the dialogue that he would like to take place. And one of the main ways that that's going to take place is within the Catholic Church, restructuring some of the offices here at the Vatican. He's been here for 24 years. He knows well what needs to be done. And I think that that is going to be one of his top priorities, to restructure those offices, tighten them up, get some good men around him as collaborators, and I think that we will see a sort of trickle-down effect then through the bishops, who will feel a renewed sense of decision-making here and being involved with what is happening at the Vatican. And that will go down into the parishes.
So I think that we will see some changes happening under this pope.
STARR: Delia, under Pope John Paul II, we saw so much of a public effort at least to reach out to other religions. To Jews, to the Islamic world, to the Eastern church. This pope, of course, has a history of public writings that don't quite match up to the public efforts that John Paul made. What do we expect from him now reaching out to other religions as Pope Benedict?
GALLAGHER: Well, of course, the first thing we should say is that Cardinal Ratzinger's public writings were written under the papacy of John Paul II. So whatever was written was also approved by John Paul II, and therefore reflected his thoughts.
So one can look at, for example, Dominus Iesus, this sort of controversial statement that only salvation is found through Jesus Christ. Well, in the eyes of John Paul II and Cardinal Ratzinger at the time, that was simply a statement of what their faith is. And I think that the understanding that Pope Benedict has of dialogue with other religions is that you present your beliefs, your truths, and the others can present theirs, and there can be a sort of respect. Dialogue doesn't necessarily mean that we have to agree on all the issues, but we do have to respect our respective beliefs. And the only way to do that is to outline them very clearly.
So we saw already in his homily today, he mentioned the Jewish people. He mentioned unity within the other religions. I think it will be absolutely on the top of his agenda, to reach out to those people, but reaching out maintaining always this firm conviction of this is what I stand for, this is what the Catholic Church stands for. And therefore, we can have some sort of a dialogue.
MALVEAUX: Delia, I actually got a chance to see some of that mass this morning, about 4:00 in the morning here from Crawford, Texas, but tell us what was it like to be there, to actually be a part of that? What did that feel like?
GALLAGHER: Well, you know, it's been an amazing month all together. It's hard to believe it's all gone by so quickly. Only last month we were talking about the illness of John Paul II, the great suffering, this very somber mood. And the crowds that were coming out to support him, to cheer him on, very enthusiastic because of this ailing pope.
Then we had that private sort of event of the conclave, and kind of mysterious, and a look inside the Sistine Chapel. Beautiful pictures there and never before seen. The cardinals going into the Sistine Chapel for this event that nobody really knew what was going on. And I'll tell you that all of the analysts here, even though Cardinal Ratzinger was a frontrunner, weren't really imagining that he would actually become pope. So the cardinals surprised everybody, I think, by making that choice, and perhaps even surprised themselves in some sense that they were so unanimous in their choice for Cardinal Ratzinger.
So then today, we have the inaugural mass, which was more somber. More somber than we are used to seeing in the piazza. I think because, again, still a kind of curious crowd, tentative steps from Pope Benedict, who is not yet a world player on this big stage, doesn't go out and kiss the babies and greet the people. He did a little small turn in the piazza with his popemobile, as it were, but not the same charisma yet of John Paul II.
But he's a very different man. He's a different personality. It will be a different papacy from the public stage.
HAYS: Delia, you mentioned how maybe the cardinals surprised themselves. There were many Catholics in the United States who might even say were disappointed with the selection of this pope, because they don't see him as someone who is open to concerns of many modern Catholics. The sex abuse scandal, the question of the role of the laity, the question of maybe giving women a crack at the priesthood. What's the attitude in Rome towards this sense you get out of American Catholics? Are they sympathetic, or do they think American Catholics should stop whining and start supporting the new pope?
GALLAGHER: Well, let me tell you, obviously American Catholics will be divided. There are many very happy American Catholics. Cardinal Ratzinger has always been popular in conservative circles, and so there are many people that are very happy for the election of this pope.
I do find it interesting, my colleague John Allen talked to Cardinal George yesterday, and Cardinal George said that two days before the conclave, he was talking to Cardinal Ratzinger about the sex abuse norms, and saying why they needed them in the United States and sort of explaining a little bit more that issue to him. And when the cardinal was elected pope, when Cardinal George went up to Pope Benedict, who announced his sort of solemn vow of obedience to him, he sort of said it in a broken German, and the pope responded to him in English, and he said "I remember our conversation and I will take care of it." This is a reference to the conversation about the sex abuse norms.
So I think with regard to that issue, for example, this pope is somebody who does know the issues that happened in the United States. In fact, in his very office at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, there is an office set up to look into those cases. So he is somebody very aware, perhaps more aware than a lot of the other cardinals from other parts of the world, about what was happening there. And we have his word now. He says "I will take care of it." So I think that's a good start for the American Catholics.
CROWLEY: Delia, I've spent a lot of time looking at politics and the mixing in of religion. This morning when I was watching, I sort of saw religion with a little mixing in of the politics. You mentioned that open air tour that he took. We're used to seeing that sort of enclosed popemobile, but he was out in the open. Seemed to me that there were things in his sermon that said, I am reaching out, I'm not the kind of person that's been depicted in some of the papers. How sensitive are they to the image of this pope?
GALLAGHER: Well, I do think you are absolutely right. He started out his homily by saying, how am I going to handle this job? I am a useless servant of God. And then he says, I am not alone, I have all of you. So there was a very public message there for help from the public.
On the other hand, I don't think we should give the appreciation that, you know, he's too worried about his public image. I mean, this is somebody who is concerned about transmitting a message of revelation, a message of the Christian faith. So I don't think that he is going to spend too much time worrying about the public image, although I do think it's significant that his first audience yesterday was with journalists.
So I think that he is learning how to use some of those means of communication, because in his prior job he didn't have to do that.
HAYS: Well, Delia Gallagher, I guess you have to like a pope who goes out of his way to talk to journalists. And thank you for talking to us today ON THE STORY. We look forward to working with you in the future.
Now, from Rome to Wall Street. I'm back on the story of what drove the stock market way down and then part of the way back.
How President Bush and Democrats are facing off over the next ambassador to the United Nations.
And how the new federal building in Oklahoma City must be both friendly and a fortress.
Plus, a check on what is making news right now. All ahead, all ON THE STORY.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. I'm Betty Nguyen at the CNN Center in Atlanta. "ON THE STORY" continues in just a moment, but first, here are the headlines right now in the news.
Iraq's violent weekend continued today. Two car bombs went off near the Iraqi Police Academy in Tikrit this morning. Six people were killed. Another 26 wounded. The second blast went off as police were responding to the first one. An American sailor died in a bomb blast during combat operations in Fallujah, and a member of Iraq's National Assembly narrowly escaped a suicide car bombing on the route between Mosul and Baghdad.
Syrian troops tore down former military outposts in Lebanon today, ending a nearly 30-year military presence there. A Syrian official has said that in the next few hours, all their troops would be out of Lebanon. At one point, as many as 40,000 Syrian troops were stationed there.
A man helping investigate alleged fraud in the United Nations oil-for-food program says he quit on principle. A report claimed that he had left the panel because his work was finished. The group found fault with Secretary-General Kofi Annan's management of that program, but did not accuse him of any corruption.
We will have more news in 30 minutes. Right now, more ON THE STORY.
HAYS: Those aren't just sounds of construction but one of the major engines that drives U.S. economy. And that home building engine seems to be quieting down a bit. Just one more economic number in a mixed up volatile week of numbers and stock market movements. Welcome back. I'm Kathleen Hays. We're ON THE STORY. CROWLEY: I know we want to talk about the stock market, but every time I look at the figures, it shows most people, their biggest investment is their house. All I've read for the last two or three weeks, housing bubble, housing bubble. It's all going to burst. Our house value is going to be cut in half. Is there a housing bubble?
HAYS: It all mixes together, because the stock market watches the housing market, and the housing market is watching the interest rates, because it all really does come together.
The housing bubble, we don't know. Because it feels like a bubble. Home prices shot up so quickly. But you don't mind the bubble on the way up. What you worry about is if the bubble pops, and if the home prices come tumbling down. And that's why we watch that housing starts number. It was down almost 18 percent. It was the biggest drop in about 14 years.
But the weather was really, really bad. A lot of economists said, let's look at a couple more numbers before we really get completely worried about the number. You can see it on the screen now.
But interest rates, interest rates, interest rates. Mortgage rates. That is the key. And right now, long-term bond yields, which determine that 30-year fixed mortgage rate, have stayed amazingly low, even as Wall Street gets more and more worried about inflation.
And that was the other big number this week, because the inflation number was much bigger than expected. And that's what really drove the market down midweek.
STARR: So why -- do people have an understanding of why that mortgage rate is not going up even as the Fed has raised other rates?
HAYS: Well, partly because if the Fed is raising rates, they do that to fight inflation. That's the basic thing. You don't want the economy to go too fast. You are not sure if energy prices are going to cause inflation, or if energy places are going to eat into disposable income, eat into family income and slow the economy down.
But the Fed is raising rates so it reassures investors that inflation won't get out of control. The Fed keeps calling it a conundrum. People on Wall Street go, darn, these long-term rates should be rising, but they haven't.
It's good for the housing market. It's good for your investments. And Candy, as long as it stays that way, then probably the housing market, that's what most experts say, it may slow down, it may cool off, but it won't crash. And that's what worries most families, I think.
MALVEAUX: Kathleen, we keep seeing the gas prices again go up and up. I know that tomorrow President Bush is going to be meeting with Saudi's Crown Prince Abdullah in Crawford at his ranch, of course, to talk about that. Perhaps the role of the Saudis, what they can do about this. But what are we seeing here? What are the kinds of actors? Are we going to see these prices go down soon?
HAYS: Doesn't look like it, does it? Because we had oil prices down back to about $50 a barrel by the end of this week. They were back above 55. And remember, the main thing that goes into the gas tank is the crude oil. It's about half the price.
We saw this week -- you know, we Americans are kind of contradictory. We complain and complain about gas prices, and there's no doubt that they hurt low-income families the most, because they pay the biggest percent of their monthly paycheck to fill their fuel tank. And if they're commuters, it's even worse. But even with these high gas prices, demand is still strong in the United States, in China, and in fact there's a big number now watched on Wall Street, inventories. And the gasoline inventories continue to fall at a time when you are trying to build them up ahead of the summer driving season. So Suzanne, it doesn't look like we're going to see much relief at all, because we're so close to summertime, and that's when you see even more pressure. So you just have to cut back someplace else.
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CROWLEY: I filled my son's SUV the other day, $48. I about fell on the floor. Why are we seeing any kind of corresponding let's all go to little cars or hybrids? Or it seems to me I still see more SUVs than anything else. Why don't Americans respond to this?
HAYS: Money. Dollars and cents. It costs more, but to drive a Ford Explorer, four-wheel drive Ford Explorer, the average annual fuel cost is over $2,000. To drive a Toyota Corolla, which gets over 30 miles to the gallon, much more fuel-efficient, about twice as fuel- efficient, you only save like $1,100. You save less than $100 a month to make that switch.
I think that's why many experts feel that Americans won't change their habits much, and particularly not the middle-income and more affluent Americans won't change their habits much, unless the price gets a lot higher.
And think about it, if you are a low-income American, you are stuck with whatever you are driving. Chances are you can't afford to go out and buy a shiny new fuel-efficient car. So it just isn't happening yet.
STARR: And against this backdrop of summertime economics, all of that, the Fed chairman had a bit of doom-and-gloom longer-term view about the promises that have been made about the economy.
HAYS: That's right. Now he is saying not only does he think Social Security benefits will have to be pared back, but he thinks that baby boomers have also been overpromised on Medicare. And he's even questioning where the money for that is going to come from.
A bright note -- let's get a bright night from the Federal Reserve. None of them seem to be worried about the economy slowing down. And none of them seem to be worried about inflation. They think it's all about energy prices, a kind of a temporary impact, the economy can absorb it and probably be OK. They are watching closely, but I think that's what's significant.
While Greenspan has his eye on these big long-term problems, he's not seeming to be too worried about the short-term problem that seems to have Wall Street quite concerned right now.
MALVEAUX: And, of course, the White House concerned as well. We're going from the economy to another bitter political battle for President Bush; that is over his nomination of United Nations Ambassador John Bolton. I'll have more on that story coming up.
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GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Sometimes politics gets in the way of doing the people's business. I urge the Senate to put aside politics and confirm John Bolton to the United Nations.
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MALVEAUX: Well, presidents certainly have to pick their battles, and President Bush certainly decided that this is one that is worth sticking with, John Bolton. Of course, long-time diplomat, but also as well a political operative, one who has also made a lot of enemies over those years. I'm Suzanne Malveaux, on that story.
CROWLEY: Suzanne, you know, I'm tempted to say if they are going to now disqualify from office everyone who is mean to their staff, the town would clear out. However, there's a little more that than -- than just John Bolton being mean. What most worries the White House at this point? I'm assuming they are worried.
MALVEAUX: Well, the White House is very concerned. And really, we got a chance to see that, because when the president of the United States comes out and says that this is my man, I'm sticking by him. When he actually has to do that, you know that people are worried.
A lot of things happened this week. Where the night before he came out, they've said, look, if he does not come out, this nomination is dead. We saw at least now there are four Republican senators who are asking questions about Bolton's nomination.
Also, the role of the former Secretary of State Colin Powell, who has been talking to senators on that committee, Senator Hagel as well as Senator Chafee saying that, look, you know, he has not endorsed Bolton. There's been a lot of accomplishments Bolton has made, but a lot of problems, too. He has ruffled a lot of feathers in Washington.
Now, of course, the White House is very concerned about whether or not, you know, they have put their man on the line. They put their reputation on the line here. I talked to some people, high-level officials who say, look, it was just a couple of days ago they were talking about low staffers, low-level staffers at the White House who were trying to twist the arms of these Republicans. We are now talking about high-level people in the White House who are having those discussions. Not at the level of the president yet, but certainly very high-level discussions.
HAYS: Well, and when you see that Republicans themselves are questioning, as you are saying, when you see that Colin Powell is apparently having conversations about his misgivings, you know, you wonder. Is it politics being played, or is this somebody that at this point they would just do better off cutting their losses and moving on?
MALVEAUX: That's a very good question, and really something that just happened over the weekend, just yesterday, is that yet another person came forward. A subordinate of Bolton came forward, a woman by the name of Lynne Finney, who wrote a letter to Democratic Senator Barbara Boxer, saying she worked with Bolton back in the '80s; he threatened to fire her over a dispute. Her desk was moved into a windowless basement office. That he yelled at her. That she had corroboration by actually her supervisor, the head of USAID, McPherson, at the time.
And you know, I spoke with McPherson, and he said, look, I don't recall this story. I spoke with somebody at the State Department who said, look, there's nothing that actually backs her story.
But the real question here is, how -- what is it going to take here? How many people before this either sinks or survives? It may just count -- it may just depend on that, how many people come forward, whether or not you can corroborate their stories at all. So they are still trying to determine whether or not this is going to survive.
But a lot of people I talked to are not very optimistic about this.
STARR: Well, Suzanne, Bolton may be a crabby guy, and certainly Washington is full of them, but there are more substantive issues here that the White House doesn't really seem to be addressing yet, and that -- that is the allegations that have surfaced that Bolton tried to pressure the intelligence community, pressure the CIA to come to his point of view about several key intelligence issues, specifically about whether Cuba was trying to develop biological weapons, and also North Korea's nuclear program. The White House doesn't seem to be quite addressing those issues yet.
MALVEAUX: They are not addressing those issues at all, Barbara. What they are saying is that they say that all of this is unsubstantiated. They say -- and when you ask them specifically, well, what kind of evidence do you have? Are you conducting your own investigation here? Why are you so confident of this? They don't say that they are actually taking a look at the facts themselves, but they say that they believe Bolton, that if you take a look at the testimony at the hearings, what he has said, the kinds of answers that he has given to these questions, they are standing by him and his statements. So it's going to be very interesting to see whether or not this committee can actually poke holes in some of those arguments, the case that he is making.
CROWLEY: Suzanne, I suspect we will talk about this next week as well.
From the presidential beat to Oklahoma City, which this weeks marked the 10-year anniversary of the bombing that destroyed the Murrah federal building. Coming up, I'm ON THE STORY of the architect, a woman called to rebuild. We're back in a moment.
ANNOUNCER: Candy Crowley, CNN's senior political correspondent, received this year's Joan S. Barone Award for excellence in journalism at the Radio and Television Correspondents Association dinner. She shared the award with her producers, Mike Roselli and Sasha Johnson.
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CROWLEY: Without them, I wouldn't be standing here. I thank them publicly. Everybody should be so lucky. I thank all of the editors and the camera people and the sound people at CNN. They are a terrific group. They are dedicated. They believe in real journalism. So do I. Thank you all very much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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CAROL ROSS BARNEY, ARCHITECT: They wanted to be able to design buildings where you would be able to remove one major structural member without causing the building to fail.
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CROWLEY: Architect Carol Ross Barney talking about the challenge in our age of terrorism to build something solid, secure, but at the same time functional and friendly. She designed the new federal office building in Oklahoma City. This week marked 10 years since the terrorist bomb there killed 168 people.
Welcome back. I'm Candy Crowley. We are ON THE STORY.
STARR: Candy, this woman took on an extraordinary job. And we know nothing about her. Where is she from? How did she come to this point?
CROWLEY: Chicago. Had not, you know, designed any buildings outside the immediate area. Born and raised in Chicago. And got this through the government, through the GSA, through all the steps that they take. Her design was picked. She built this building.
It was really interesting. She said, I knew nothing about Oklahoma. And the one thing she said to me was, I wanted this building to be about the totality of Oklahoma, not about a single moment. And you know, she didn't want a monument. There is a monument. She needed an office building. And she didn't want it to look like a fortress. And one of the interesting things that the former head of GSA architecture said was listen, a government building is the symbol of a government's relationship to its people. So you can't build a penitentiary. You have to build one that says we're open, we're accessible, but you also got to be safe.
HAYS: But that's one of the reasons why this story is so interesting, Candy, because in it, you put together another important aspect, the special demands for architects building potential targets in an age of terrorism. So now, we're going to take a look at more of you and the architect ON THE STORY.
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CROWLEY: When you were designing this building, did you say to yourself, you know what I would love to do, but I can't do that because that would...
BARNEY: No, actually, we did the opposite. We'd say, you know what we'd love to do? How can we do that and still meet the security requirement.
CROWLEY (voice-over): On three sides of the building, the reinforced walls are unforgiving concrete, made with Oklahoma rocks.
BARNEY: The stone is integral in the wall. It's part of the wall. It's not applied to the wall.
CROWLEY (on camera): So it doesn't come shooting out, essentially.
BARNEY: Right. Yes. So it's not fastened to the wall. It's part of the wall.
CROWLEY (voice-over): Part of the courtyard is a babbling stream filled with boulders from a nearby buffalo ranch.
BARNEY: You can see our eating area out there. That's inside security. So in a way, this is a modern mote, but it's beautiful.
CROWLEY: From the southeast corner of the new federal building, you can see the monument grounds where the Murrah building once stood. The offices belonged to Housing and Urban Development, the department that lost the most that day in April of 1995.
BARNEY: (INAUDIBLE) for a space here is HUD. And they were just -- oh my God, they had a committee of survivors that were just terrified about coming back here. That's their training room. And they put it there. And so we said, well, aren't you worried about having training and having to look at the memorial? They said, we need blinds. They never close the blinds either. So I think that's good. I mean, if a building can heal -- help heal people, that's good.
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CROWLEY: I have to add that there were some people that just never wanted to come back. Just the thought of it. But a lot of HUD did come back. And in fact, you know, we talked to a lot of the people in that building, who said, you know, I don't really ever think about it. You know? I just come in. Now, some of them are new. But others said, I feel safe, I feel secure.
MALVEAUX: And, Candy, when they came back in the building, were there certain emotions? Or was it very -- an emotional experience for some people?
CROWLEY: Oh, absolutely. And still is. I mean, I don't know if you could tell in the pictures, but the building is sort of a semi- circle on one side. And there were people that said, I can't go back in, it reminds me of the bombed out part of the building.
But it's been 10 years. Obviously they are moving on. But you still have people who don't want to go into that building, who are, in fact, in buildings elsewhere. They moved all of the law enforcement out of there, because they felt those were the original targets. They are now in separate buildings, sort of, you know, putting targets around the city rather than all in one building.
So still a lot of healing to take place. But 10 years after, they are moving on. And they, too -- this architect did a lot of town hall meetings with the families of victims, with victims themselves. They also said, we don't want it to be a monument. And we don't want it to be all about security. You know, we want a building we can go and work and eat in and go home at night. So they -- still critics, still people that are really still look back at 10 years ago, but they are moving on.
STARR: So hard to believe that it has been 10 years since that day.
Well, we're back ON THE STORY after this.
ANNOUNCER: An Egyptian woman makes an unexpected delivery aboard an airplane. "What's Her Story?" More when we return.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Rabab Ismaiel. "What's Her Story?" The Egyptian woman gave birth to a healthy baby girl just before her flight landed in New York. The crew put the newborn baby on a snack cart until the Egypt Air jet could land at JFK Airport.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was with the paramedics at Kennedy medical, and they were passing -- like inadvertently threw her to me. So that my partner, Joe, was -- had a lunch tray with the baby onboard, wrapped in a blanket.
ANNOUNCER: Ismaiel and her daughter were rushed to a hospital in Queens, where they were reunited with her husband.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY: Thank you to Suzanne, Barbara, Kathleen, all of my colleagues, and thank you for watching ON THE STORY. We will be back next week.
At noon Eastern time today, 9:00 a.m. Pacific, "LATE EDITION," with Senators Arlen Specter and Patrick Leahy. But straight ahead, a check on what's making news right now on "CNN LIVE SUNDAY."
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