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On the Story

Support for Iraq War Falls Among American Public; Credit Card Security Breach

Aired June 19, 2005 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning, everyone. I'm Tony Harris. ON THE STORY begins in just a moment.
First, these stories "Now in the News."

It's another bloody day in Baghdad. A suicide bomber took aim today at a crowded restaurant in the Iraqi capital, killing more than a dozen people. Iraqi security forces were having lunch in the restaurant. At least six police officers were among those killed.

There's a new twist in the disappearance of an Alabama teenager in Aruba. A law enforcement source tells CNN police have questioned an Aruban judge who is the father of one of the suspects in the case. The source says the judge was interviewed as a witness.

His son is believed to be one of the last people to see Natalee Holloway before she disappeared nearly three weeks ago. A live report from Aruba is coming up just a half-hour from now.

Supporters of Nobel Peace Prize winner Aung San Suu Kyi celebrate her 60th birthday with events around the world. The pro-democracy leader remains in house arrest in Myanmar's capital. She has spent the last decade in confinement.

Those are the top stories ""Now in the News." Another update in the bottom of the hour.

I'm Tony Harris. CNN's ON THE STORY starts right now.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to CNN's ON THE STORY, where our journalists have the inside word on the stories we covered this week from here in Washington, to Iraq, Afghanistan and Aruba. I'm Elaine Quijano, on the story of President Bush facing falling support for the Iraq war.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And I'm Kelly Wallace in New York, on the story how parents can survive in the oh, so tough world of kids and teen sports.

KATHLEEN HAYS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And I'm Kathleen Hays, on the story of a security breach of 40 million credit card accounts. New records for oil prices as well.

We'll go to Aruba at the half-hour for the latest on the missing Alabama girl. Also coming up, we're bound for northwestern Iraq and our Jane Arraf with U.S. forces hunting insurgents.

Barbara Starr is on the story in Afghanistan, suffering a new wave of violence in recent days.

And it was the week of not guilty for Michael Jackson. We'll ask "Newsweek's" Allison Samuels what's next for the fallen star.

E-mail us at onthestory@cnn.com.

Now straight to Iraq and the hunt for insurgents.

QUIJANO: The sounds from the front lines of Operation Spear and the dangerous back streets of Karabila near the Syrian border. Welcome back. We're ON THE STORY. And right in the middle of the insurgent hunt is our Jane Arraf, CNN's senior Baghdad correspondent, joining us on the phone from northwestern Iraq.

Jane, what is the latest on this newest offensive?

JANE ARRAF, CNN SR. BAGHDAD CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're actually moving through town with the Marines. They've been clearing parts of the city.

The morning started off with some line (ph) charge, 3,000 (ph) pounds of explosives as they breached the defenses. They went out earlier and they warned civilians that they might just want to leave.

You can imagine the effect that those kinds of explosions, the bombs, the gunfire are having on this city. About 150 civilians waving white flags did leave, but there are still some here trying to survive through all of this.

HAYS: Some very interesting, some very tough sights. Tell us about a torture house that was just liberated.

ARRAF: That was extraordinary. They had thought that perhaps it was a car bomb factory. And indeed, as they set off explosions there, detonating the explosives that they knew would be in there, there were car bombs in the making. But when they went a little further, they found something even worse.

It was four men whose hands and feet were bound with metal handcuffs who said they had been taken hostage. One of them had been held for almost three weeks. Two of them, border police, had been (INAUDIBLE) with electric shocks.

They were dumped in buckets of water, and then electric shocks administered to them. They're in horrifying shape. And one of the saddest things was they said they didn't know (INAUDIBLE) form of intimidation.

When we saw them they were just removing the handcuffs. (INAUDIBLE) described what a horrible sight there was. Legs like matchsticks. They hadn't eaten properly, they'd been terribly, terribly beaten. All of that this in what seemed to be an ordinary complex.

HAYS: Well, Jane, that is just another example of how tough it can be to be the eyes and ears for the rest of us. You have been embedded for some time now. We're going to run part of one of your stories filed recently. Let's take a look and a listen at what you've been up to.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARRAF: Our thermal imaging camera captures the tanks rolling through the sand in this western desert. We're in Humvees between the heavy armor. By the time dawn comes, we're on the edge of the city.

The tanks lumber down the narrow streets in this neighborhood controlled by insurgents. The attack helicopters hover overhead. We can't see them, but on the ground, gunmen are shooting at them with AK-47s.

We've set up our mobile satellite equipment near the armored vehicles to do a live report. Just as we go to air, shots from a sniper ring out.

The mobile command post is in the back of a Bradley. Squadron Commander Lieutenant Colonel Christopher Hickey (ph) is absorbed in directing the battle. He learns a little later that a senior officer, Lieutenant Colonel Terrence Crow (ph), has been killed by gunfire as he's leading Iraqi forces.

No one has the luxury of grieving right now for the 1,680th U.S. military death in this war. They have a battle to fight.

I spend most of my time traveling across Iraq. There are parts of this country where schools have been rebuilt, where people have jobs and where things are getting safer. This isn't one of them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: And Jane, some intense scenes there. I'm wondering -- I understand that this is an area where U.S. military forces had previously been. Why did they have to come back to that particular area, Jane?

ARRAF: You know, this is one of the patterns that we're seeing. And we have to understand what sort of environment they're operating in.

This is not Baghdad, it's not Basra, it's not Irbil. This is a huge, relatively lawless territory.

The Marine unit that I'm with right now oversees, 30,000 square miles. And you have cities like this. And looking down these streets, it's a very prosperous city. It's five miles from the Syrian border. It's always been a route for legitimate business and for smuggling. And in this city there is no police force. There are no Iraqi soldiers.

It's a city that has essentially been taken over by insurgents who have been turning some of these places into torture houses, who are using the schools to teach people how to make roadside bombs. And there's no one here but the Marines, and they're very thinly stretched. They keep going into these places, they keep launching these attacks. (INAUDIBLE) die, they move out again, the insurgents come back in, in many cases, and then it's all over again.

HAYS: Jane, when you are with the troops, what kind of talk off camera, behind scenes, do you pick up from people who are really fighting these areas? Do they feel that they need more troops? Do they feel that the United States government hasn't backed them sufficiently? Or are they gritting their teeth and bearing it?

ARRAF: There are kind of a couple of theme that emerge, that are universal, it seems to me, over the past year of talking to and essentially living with Marines and soldiers. One is that they are always going to do what they're told.

This is their job. And they -- it doesn't occur to many of them, although it does occur to a few, that this perhaps (INAUDIBLE) any more. They're told to do this. They're proud to do it.

They come here. They get up every morning and they go out and they risk their lives, and they do it because (INAUDIBLE) say that they're not sure this is winnable. Senior commanders, for instance (INAUDIBLE).

QUIJANO: We have difficulty hearing you, but thank you so much for your reports.

And the Iraq war and new questions about when the United States forces might come home were all part of the debate in Washington this week. I'm talking about that in a moment.

And at the end of hour, our "What's Her Story?" segment, a rare medal for a woman fighting in Iraq. We're back ON THE STORY after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: On issue after issue, they stand for nothing except obstruction. And this is not leadership.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: President Bush on Tuesday ripping into Democrats as obstructionists, saying theirs is what he called "the philosophy of the stop sign and the agenda of the roadblock." Now, of course what's getting blocked, or at least running into some tough resistance, are the president's proposals, namely on his signature domestic issue, and that is Social Security.

WALLACE: Elaine, something else the president had to deal with. Some new poll numbers coming out showing a very low approval rating, also showing support for the war on Iraq going down. You see the approval rating there at 42 percent.

I know the White House, every White House, always says it is never focused on poll numbers. But privately, how worried are White House officials about this late -- these latest numbers?

QUIJANO: Well, I'll tell you, Kelly, these numbers certainly are not encouraging. And you're right, this is an administration that very much says the president follows his convictions, doesn't follow the poll numbers.

At the same time, though, what we had this past week were officials at the White House very much wanting to tell reporters that the president is going to sharpen his focus on two issues that they say are quite important to Americans, the war on terrorism, namely Iraq, and also economic issues.

Now, on Iraq especially, the president's numbers out that as well. Just 37 percent of people in that same "New York Times"-CBS Poll saying that they approve of the way President Bush has been handling the situation in Iraq. But at the same time, what we hear from these administration officials is that the president is not going to be putting forth any new ideas, new shifts or anything of that sort on policy. Instead, what we're going to be hearing is the president really putting things more into context, reminding the American people why, in fact, U.S. troops are there.

And this coming, of course, in the face of even some resistance in Congress, or at least rumblings in Congress. Some lawmakers, a small bipartisan group of lawmakers coming out saying that they want a resolution seek an exit strategy timetable. And that is something that the Bush administration has said flat out it rejects. They say it sends the wrong message to insurgents. So they're very much against that.

But at this point, they are well aware of those rumblings going on. The public approval ratings are reflecting perhaps some discontent over the Iraq war.

HAYS: So, Elaine, please detail a little bit more for us who these rumblings are coming from. Because, again, you said bipartisan, a small group, but Republicans now starting to say, hey, we need to know when we're getting out, what is the strategy. And not only that, they are starting to be a bit more vocal and -- quite a bit more vocal, in fact, on Guantanamo Bay.

QUIJANO: Absolutely. First, on Iraq, the one Republican, one of the two Republicans that actually came out and joined with Democrats on this proposed resolution looking for this exit strategy timeframe, is someone who was very much for the war. In fact, the person who coined that phrase, "freedom fries," remember that at the outset? This is Congressman -- Republican Walter Jones, who basically now said, after speaking with constituents, namely those who have been very profoundly affected by the losses incurred in this conflict, says he is having thoughts now that he wants to see some kind of exit strategy timeframe.

At the same time, of course, Republicans also in Congress looking ahead very much to their own political survival. Also, perhaps, hearing rumblings from their own constituents, and not at this particular point necessarily willing to join publicly with those who are also calling on President Bush, the Bush administration to come up with some kind of exit plan. But at least privately, you know, that is the big question. How many more Republicans and how many others may join in those rumblings?

Now, on Guantanamo Bay, you mentioned that's certainly an issue that has been heated. We heard -- in fact, it was this time last week that "TIME" magazine report talking about the maltreatment of detainees there. And just this past week, now that prompted some heated words from Illinois Democratic Senator Dick Durbin.

Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL), MINORITY WHIP: You would most certainly believe this must have happened by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime, Pol Pot or others, that had no concern for human beings.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: Now, Vice President Dick Cheney basically said that was way out of line. We heard the president's own press secretary, Scott McClellan say those comments were reprehensible. And even Senator Durbin himself was chastised by fellow senators and seemed to back off a little bit, saying that he basically expressed regret if his feelings were misunderstood.

But certainly the lingering questions remain about Gitmo, whether or not it should remain open. Of course, the Bush administration saying that it's an effective tool that they have been able to garner intelligence from the detainees who have been kept there. But at the same time, you do have these questions very much open at this point, how long can Guantanamo Bay be allowed to continue, and what should happen, in fact, to the detainees who are there now?

WALLACE: And Elaine, of course we saw something interesting this past week in Washington, something we do see sometimes. You see criticism of the administration's handling of the detainees at Guantanamo Bay calling for the closure of that facility. But nobody wants that facility, a new facility in their back yard, right?

I mean, where would detainees go? Kentucky? Iowa? Most members of Congress would say, we don't want them there, right? QUIJANO: Absolutely, Kelly, and that is a big point which a lot of people bring up in having this discussion is, what would be the alternative? And the answer, there are no easy answers.

And they -- the Bush administration really points to this facility as sort of the premiere facility in order to carry out these kind of interrogations and that kind of -- as they prosecute the war on terrorism. So that is a good question. Where, exactly, what alternatives would there be if Guantanamo was closed down?

WALLACE: All right, Elaine.

Well, from the politics of Guantanamo Bay to Afghanistan, and new violence there in recent days. Our very own Barbara Starr is on the ground, on the story inside Afghanistan. You won't want to miss that. We are back with her right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: By removing the Taliban, America and the free world are safer. But at the same time, we gave the Afghan people a chance to live in a free and democratic society.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: President Bush this week saying that people in Afghanistan have a chance to live in a free society. But like Iraq, suicide bombers and insurgents are on the move.

Our Barbara Starr is in Afghanistan this week, joining us on her -- on the phone.

And Barbara, what can you tell us about the situation? We hear about -- we've heard about more violence yet today.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right. Even earlier today U.S. forces were engaged in combat near Kandahar in southern Afghanistan. Yet again, another firefight.

U.S. troops coming under fire from insurgents. And they responded with Apache gun ships, A-10 aircraft.

It's what's been going on in this country for the last several weeks now, firefights with enemy forces. And the commanders here are telling us they expect more of this throughout the summer. They do expect more violence here.

WALLACE: And Barbara, how organized is the insurgency, and where are the insurgents coming from?

STARR: Well, they're not -- you know, you can't think of it like Iraq. It's not organized cells of insurgents like the Zarqawi network in Iraq, they tell us. The commanders we've been talking to this week say that, basically, it is three groups that they can identify, remnants of Taliban and al Qaeda. And that is certainly a serious concern.

People who are loyal to the warlords, who still run much of this country in the rural countryside, and the common criminal element. They see people out there engaging in violence for money, that sort of thing. While the cities are doing pretty well, it's in those small rural villages where often there is intimidation to local people, schools being burned, local people being threatened if they cooperate with coalition forces. There's a lot of progress in this country, but still a long way to go.

One of the major reasons they believe they are headed towards a violent summer is that parliamentary elections are scheduled here in September, and they believe the people who engage in this type of activity will launch more attacks to try and disrupt those elections, to try and keep the Afghans from going to the polls. But so far it really appears most of the people in this country are very anxious to vote and proceed with democracy.

HAYS: Now, of course one of the concerns when the administration decided to go to war in Iraq, Barbara, was that it would be diverting troops, focus, energy from the effort in Afghanistan to Iraq. Again, behind the scenes, what are the military commanders, what are the enlisted men and women saying about their mission? Do they think it is something that can be won, or is it going to be some kind of endless holding pattern because they just don't have the wherewithal to get the job done?

STARR: Well, it's, again, a major difference from the war in Iraq. Here, there is growing violence. There are IEDs, there are car bombs, there are explosives, but certainly not on the level of Iraq.

And what we have mostly found from the troops we have spoken to is that they do remain very committed to this mission. They remain committed because the U.S. is here, of course, because of the 9/11 attacks, overthrowing the Taliban, trying to shut down the al Qaeda network. And they also are very committed to it because there is a great deal of humanitarian relief and rebuilding work going on in this country.

And the Afghans, for the most part, do not see the U.S. military as an occupying force, as so many do in Iraq, perhaps. The Afghans still -- we have talked to many of them this week, they see the U.S. troops as still their basic shield against the re-emergence of the Taliban in this country.

QUIJANO: Barbara, I wanted to ask you about Afghanistan's own military and police forces. How well have they been able to handle the security challenges that they've encountered?

STARR: I must tell you that that's a major issue here. The Afghan national army doing pretty well. The Afghan police, perhaps not so well. U.S. commanders telling us over the next several months they plan to put a lot of money and effort into the police force, but here's just one indicator of the Afghan national army. We went yesterday to an Afghan army base, and what we found was, we went into a kitchen to interview some Afghan army cooks, and we learned that in the Afghan army the cooks get paid $20 a month extra than the regular soldiers. And you might ask yourself why.

Well, it's because the Afghan army can't seem to hire enough cooks. Everyone who joins the Afghan army wants to fight. So in order to get cooks they have to pay them extra money. The Afghan army is full of men who want to go and fight, who want to fight the Taliban and the al Qaeda in this country.

HAYS: Barbara, thank you so much. Listening to you does paint a bit maybe of more of a hopeful picture than we might have seen otherwise. We'll be watching your reports. See you back here ON THE STORY as soon as possible.

I'm back on new records in the economy. The biggest security credit card breach in credit cards, highest oil prices. Up next, though, we're going live to Aruba for the latest on the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

Also coming up, Kelly Wallace looks at kids, sports, parents and coaches, and previews her series of reports, "Surviving the Game."

And can the king of pop ever regain his thrown? "Newsweek's" Allison Samuels is back with us again.

And at the end of hour, our "What's Her Story?" segment on a rare honor for a woman fighting in Iraq.

Plus, a check on what's making news right now.

It's all coming up, all ON THE STORY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: I'm Tony Harris in the CNN Center in Atlanta. ON THE STORY continues in a moment. First, headlines now in the news.

A suicide bomber walked into a crowded restaurant in central Baghdad today and detonated a vestful of explosives. At least 16 people are dead and nearly 30 others wounded in the lunchtime attack. The popular cafe is located near a checkpoint leading to the green zone.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice headed to Jordan, the second leg of her trip through the Middle East. In Jerusalem earlier today, Rice said Israel has agreed to destroy 1,200 homes that will be abandoned when Jewish settlers leave Gaza later this summer.

Memorials will be held this afternoon in Philadelphia, Mississippi, for three civil rights workers killed in 1964. Eighty- year-old Edgar Ray Killen is currently on trial for those murders. Court resumes tomorrow.

Those are the headlines. More news at the top of the hour on "CNN LIVE SUNDAY" with Fredricka Whitfield. Now back to CNN's ON THE STORY.

WALLACE: Thanks, Tony. Close to three weeks since Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway disappeared from her senior class trip to the Caribbean island of Aruba, and today we are thankful that CNN's supervising producer Kim Segal is joining us. She's part of our CNN team covering the story really from the beginning, and she joins us from Aruba.

Kim, thanks for being with us. I want to ask you first, we know that the Aruban judge, the father of one of the four suspects who is now behind bars, that this father was brought in for questioning, questioning by Aruban police. What can you tell us about that?

KIM SEGAL, CNN PRODUCER: That's correct, Kelly. Last night, for at least four hours that we know of, Mr. Van Der Sloot, Paul Van Der Sloot -- he's a judge here on the island of Aruba -- he was brought in as a witness in this case, so he was questioned by police.

WALLACE: Have we learned anything more about what they're gaining from this father, Kim?

SEGAL: No, we haven't. What we do know is just a few days ago, they did go back to the Van Der Sloot house, and they took away two cars, both the cars belonging to the parents. They also went in the Van Der Sloot house and took out a bunch of items from that house. That's all we know right now.

WALLACE: We know also that they're not allowing him to see his son. Isn't that correct?

SEGAL: That's correct. A couple of days ago -- since his son is 17, he's a juvenile, in Aruba, the juveniles are allowed to get visits by their parents while they're being detained, and the prosecution in this case didn't want for some reason -- they didn't tell us -- but they didn't want his father, the judge, to see their son. So the father filed a motion, and the judge agreed with the prosecution, that he should not have contact with his son while he's in detention.

That said, his mother, Anita Van Der Sloot, has been in to see her son.

WALLACE: Kim, I know you and your colleagues there in Aruba have been talking a great deal with Natalee Holloway's family. I want our viewers to hear a little bit from Natalee's mother, Beth Holloway Twitty. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE'S MOTHER: The frustration is unimaginable. It's unimaginable, and I have waited and I have waited and I have waited, and I have listened, and I've heard lie after lie after lie unfold, and I have to have some answers. And I better get them soon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Kim, you're clearly hearing the frustration. How's the family coping and holding up?

SEGAL: I mean, I think she said it all yesterday, how frustrated she is. It's been an emotional rollercoaster for them. We see them every day. They are here at this hotel where we're reporting from. And every day is different, you know. One day it's just deep sadness, other days anger; next day it's frustration. But I think as each day goes on, the family and the people here on the island of Aruba are just getting more and more frustrated. They want answers.

WALLACE: Yeah. Kim, we know it will be three weeks, really, since Natalee Holloway disappeared. Are they still searching for her, or is it really a waiting game for more leads? What's going on?

SEGAL: Well, it's a little of both. The family, they -- I don't think they're ever going to give up searching. They even asked us yesterday, hey, if you can tell us any places you think we missed or should search, we'll go there.

That said, there are no more volunteer efforts from the tourists here, and as far as the police, whenever they get a tip, they do go out and search. We understand that there was a tip yesterday, and they'd gone out and search, but they're not combing the island. That's been done already, and unfortunately, they still have not found Natalee Holloway.

WALLACE: Kim, thanks so much for being here ON THE STORY. We really appreciate it. We'll be watching for the updates from yourself and the rest of the CNN team in Aruba in the days ahead.

Now, more ON THE STORY on the economy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: Summer's here. Temperatures are rising, and tempers will really rise if Congress doesn't pass an energy bill.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYS: Summer officially comes Tuesday, but tempers about oil prices have been rising for months. President Bush speaking this week.

Welcome back. I'm Kathleen Hayes. We are ON THE STORY.

QUIJANO: And Kathleen, I'm wondering if you can just kind of clear something up for me. OPEC, I understand, last week increased oil production, sort of, but we haven't really seen and we don't necessarily have any reason to believe that that's going to make a difference? President Bush, of course, has kept hammering on the fact that he understands Americans are feeling the pinch, but if OPEC -- sort of what's their role here? HAYS: Sure thing, Elaine. It is complicated, isn't it? But we saw this -- the last time OPEC met, they announced a production increase, and the next thing you knew, oil prices were heading back towards new records.

Here's the deal. OPEC says we'll increase our output by 500,000 barrels, but guess what? That puts OPEC overall at 28 million barrels, and unfortunately, unofficially they're already pumping 30 million barrels from OPEC. So you see, it's really more of a cosmetic statement.

On top of that this week, there's rumblings out of Nigeria, a major supplier of crude oil to the world, that there could be a strike. There continue to be worries about refining capacity. There isn't enough in the United States.

So crude oil, another record, over $58 a barrel.

Now, it's true that the last time we had a big oil shock in the early '80s, if you adjust for inflation, crude oil was up around $80 a barrel. But we're heading for $60 now. We're getting closer to the point where even if you adjust for inflation, oil could get expensive enough that it really takes a bite out of U.S. economic growth and global growth.

WALLACE: Kathleen, switching gears a little bit. It seems every day, we open up the newspaper, almost every day, another case of identity theft. The latest, MasterCard, some 40 million card holders, is that right?

HAYS: Well, let's make it clear. What happened was a very major security breach. The credit card numbers are out there, some 40 million of them. If the identity theft occurs, that makes it even worse, and the big banks are saying, we don't know yet exactly who of our account holders have been affected. We do know, though, that some 14 million MasterCard accounts, some 22 million Visa accounts, also American Express, also Discover.

Here's what happened. When you charge something at the store, ultimately that goes from the merchant to the bank, but in between, someone has to process that, and Card Systems Solutions, a company out in Tucson, Arizona, apparently had some kind of security breach. An infiltrator, somebody found a way to get into that system and get all this information.

One longtime computer industry worker that I spoke to said it sounds like maybe it could be an inside job, and certainly people will be looking into that.

The problem is, even if there is an identity theft, the kind of rings that steal this information use it to do things like just put fraudulent charges out, to take cash out of your account without real authorization.

So people have to watch their accounts very carefully now. If you see anything funny, report it. The banks, the big banks say they'll be notifying their customers soon, as soon as they know who was affected.

In the meantime, if someone does charge something fraudulently, you will not be held responsible. That's how the rules of these cards work.

QUIJANO: And Kathleen, I understand the businesses themselves are the ones that actually sort of eat the cost if in fact there's something that's racked up illegally, that it will be the businesses -- but could that affect consumers down the road?

HAYS: Well, credit card rates are already so high, it's hard to imagine they can charge people much more to hold a card. This is definitely something, though, that I think makes people all the more nervous and weary. And you know, you can contact the big credit tracking agencies like TransUnion and Equifax, and say, put a special fraud alert on my account. You can contact the card issuer if you have to, reverse charges, maybe even get a new account number. In fact, there's a very fine article on CNNMoney by one of our colleagues, Jeanne Sahadi, about the steps people can take. I highly recommend going to the Web site, going to these banks' Web sites.

I think the bigger question, though, is why is this happening? How is it happening? Cyberspace is clearly not secure. There are all kinds of alarms that are being looked at now, and I think that's the bigger question, because we can't keep cleaning up these messes forever. I think people are going to demand some kind of action, and something that is going to protect us more broadly in the future.

WALLACE: Kathleen, a story you talked about quite a bit on past weeks on ON THE STORY, Tyco, which became somewhat of a symbol of corporate corruption, allegations of corporate greed. A big victory for the prosecution this week.

HAYS: Absolutely. Dennis Kozlowski, remember the guy who had the million-dollar birthday party for his wife in Sardinia and a $6,000 shower curtain. But I think what the white collar crime fighters are saying is important about this is it showed a couple of things. It showed that a jury can listen to weeks and weeks of complicated accounting information and come back with a guilty verdict, which seemed to be warranted. Also, it showed that the boss can't say, "I didn't know. I guess I was sloppy when I didn't include $25 million of income on my tax, and I just signed what my accountant put in front of me." If you're the CEO, you're making the big bucks, you better be responsible.

These guys face now up to 25 years in jail, Kelly.

WALLACE: Well, if cases of corporate corruption increase your stress and blood pressure, what about kid sports, when taken too seriously by parents, coaches and children? I am back on that story after this.

ANNOUNCER: Kelly Wallace is a CNN national correspondent in New York. She was born and raised in Brooklyn, and she graduated magna cum laude from the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School.

During the 2004 election season, she covered presidential politics and traveled with John Kerry's campaign.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: What do you learn about yourself as you start coaching?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I learned really unpleasant things, like I really want to win, you know? Like I want the kids to have fun, but it is more fun to win than to lose.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: That was Richard Dresser (ph), talking about how kids in sports can show us some unexpected truths about ourselves and our children. This will all be part of our series this coming week on "AMERICAN MORNING." It's called "Surviving the Game: Your Kids and Team Sports."

Welcome back. I'm Kelly Wallace and we are ON THE STORY.

QUIJANO: And you know, Kelly, it's funny, listening to him, it's really interesting, there has been sort of this Hollywood cliche of the overzealous coach, but you found that some of these coaches really are that intense.

WALLACE: Well, Richard Dresser (ph), in fact, he tells us a story about his own son, who came home from practice a few years ago and said, dad, my coach told us about a new strategy to win the playoffs. When a slow runner gets on base, they would look to the coach. If the coach gave them a signal when they were sliding into second, they'd be pretending to be injured, so they can come out of the game and have a faster runner put in the game. Dresser (ph) was so sort of horrified by this -- he's also, though, a writer. He wrote a play about it, pitting one coach who wants to win at all costs and advocates this kind of strategy, with another coach who thinks fun should be the goal.

But the interesting thing is, towards the end of the play, the coach who really wants to have fun learns he, too, wants to win. So in us, in all of us, there's a sense of wanting to win. The key is how can we try to win, but at the same time try to have fun and not cheat along the way?

HAYS: Kelly, my daughter's in junior high, and she plays soccer. One of my very dear friends' son on the West Coast is a champion baseball player. You see kids with injuries, you see little boys who are pitching and pitching and pitching, and doctors say they can have lifelong injuries. How do you deal with that? How do you deal with kids maybe who do too much too soon and get burned out by the time they're 12 or 13?

WALLACE: Well, Kathleen, you raise a key point. And this is something as we've been talking to people about our series, especially people like yourself with kids, you're hearing about this. Researchers are saying that now three out of four kids will drop out of organized sports by the age of 12, and they say that's much younger than it used to be.

Part of the problem is what you raised. Kids are sometimes overscheduled. Perhaps they're doing too much. We had one boy we interviewed, he was playing on four teams during one year, and his parents finally decided, you know what, we need to cut back and perhaps not have him play soccer.

So there's a balancing act that parents and coaches need to play to make sure that the kids are having fun and enjoying the sports, but if they start feeling like they're doing too much, if they start feeling too much pressure, too much pressure from coaches and parents, they can start dropping out of organized sports a lot earlier than they probably would have if those circumstances did not exist.

QUIJANO: Well, Kelly, what about if a parent thinks they have a child who really is showing promise, a child who maybe could really be a star? What avenues are out there and how do they sort of maintain that balance?

WALLACE: Well, another good point, because we interviewed a young woman, 14 years old, Brittany Perry (ph) of New Jersey, and she's an incredible softball player, a really, really good pitcher. We joked that she pitches so fast I knew I couldn't hit her.

But you see her there. Look at this. This is in her living room. She has a net up so that she could practice hitting and pitching at any time.

So I asked her mom, who is a former coach herself and currently an athletic director at a high school, saying, you talk about balance, but perhaps is this going overboard? And she says no, she knows it's an option. We do what we can to make sure that she has down time, that she's not doing too much. But she said it's a really difficult thing, a balancing act between making sure she has all the tools she needs to excel without, again, overdoing it and pushing her too hard.

HAYS: That's the challenge, I think, for every parent, how to be a wind at the back, but don't throw water on them.

WALLACE: Right.

HAYS: Well, we're going to be watching "Surviving the Game" over next week on CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING," 7:00 a.m. Eastern.

Now, though, from sports to celebrity and the Michael Jackson trial. We're back ON THE STORY with "Newsweek" correspondent Allison Samuels right after this.

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QUIJANO: That was moments after learning of the jury's not guilty verdict on the charges of molesting children. Michael Jackson leaving the courthouse. We're back ON THE STORY.

And joining us from New York, "Newsweek" magazine national correspondent Allison Samuels. Allison, those not guilty verdicts coming down, but some would say certainly there is still this cloud at least following Michael Jackson around. What's next for him? Can he come back from this?

ALLISON SAMUELS, NEWSWEEK: I think that he, certainly being the talented performer that he is, he certainly has an opportunity to come back. I don't think he'll ever be as big as he once was, but I think he can certainly come out and do an album, possibly do Vegas, as everyone is saying, do some guest tracks on other popular artists', you know, albums or whatever, and I think he can have a pretty decent career.

The only problem is some of the jurors are still talking, still saying they think he possibly could have molested children, and I think as long as those jurors are vocal and continue to say things like that, it will make it a little harder for him to sort of get respect, I think, from the audience people, the fans that he once had. I think it will make it a little bit difficult.

HAYS: Also, I think there's, to a certain extent, may always be a cloud hanging over Michael Jackson, because he was tried in the press.

SAMUELS: Right.

HAYS: As this trial was going on, and again, many people feel that the case wasn't lost because Michael Jackson wasn't necessarily guilty, at least of some of the charges. They think the case was lost either because he was a celebrity, it was difficult to convict, or just simply that the prosecution didn't have it together.

SAMUELS: Yeah. I think that is the problem, that, you know, it's probably going to follow him, and it's a problem that he had even when he, you know, settled out of court a couple of years ago. I think child molestation is one of those things when you're charged with it, it's always with you. And I think PR-wise, image consulting- wise, Michael is going to have a really long, long road to go to sort of make that happen, but I also feel like since he has such a strong fan base overseas, he can start over there, come back over here, and just try to sort of, you know, do interviews. I don't know, I always think, you know, if you can sit down and do one sort of tear-filled interview with someone, and explain, or apologize, or explain exactly what his behavior has been over the years, people like the underdog. You cannot predict exactly how it is going to turn out. People really do like the underdog sometimes.

WALLACE: Allison, as you know, there's been so much analysis of the prosecution and the defense, his approaches to this case, but a lot of questions about the prosecution, in particular pursuing the conspiracy charge, and that opened up lots of questions about the mother of the accuser's credibility. Is that what you're picking up?

SAMUELS: Oh, definitely. I think a lot of people feel like that's how the case was actually lost. The mother, you know, with her demeanor, with her sort of overly aggressive demeanor, just turned all of the jurors off. I think that overshadowed actually every other piece of evidence, and it also sort of made it seem as though she really influenced and manipulated her son to sort of say some of the things that he said.

And I think with the prosecution, I'm not sure why they went that route. It seems to me that they should have been able to sort of see the mother's demeanor and sort of estimate on some level what kind of an impact that would have on the jurors, but with every juror that you heard, everyone was turned off by the mother.

And you do have to wonder, I'm sure the prosecution is wondering right now if they'd not brought that conspiracy charge against Mr. Jackson and if the mother hadn't taken the stand, would we have a totally different verdict today?

QUIJANO: Now, Allison, I've heard that while there was, of course, great interest here in the United States about coverage of this trial, that overseas, really, you mentioned the international fan base of Michael Jackson, that it was just unbelievable. Have you heard that as well in your covering of the trial?

SAMUELS: Oh, definitely. Oh, definitely. I did a number of interviews, you know, in Australia, in Ireland. It was amazing, just the interest that people still have in Michael, and I think that's just sort of the way it is a lot of times with a lot of our celebrities. They have -- they don't hear a lot of the things that we hear. I think they're not as oversaturated with celebrities as we are. I think in a way, in the United States, we're very familiar with our celebrities, it's sort of like par for course to talk about celebrities. But I think over there, particularly someone like Michael is still a genuine superstar, and they sort of hang on everything he does and everything that he says.

WALLACE: Fascinating story, Allison. We'll be looking for your continued reports on this. Allison Samuels, thanks for coming in today. We'll be watching your report in "Newsweek" and back here as well. And we are back ON THE STORY right after this. Don't go away.

ANNOUNCER: A U.S. soldier is awarded for her valor. "What's Her Story?" More when we return.

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ANNOUNCER: For the first time since World War II, the Army this week awarded the Silver Star to a woman. Sergeant Leigh Ann Hester and two other soldiers received the medal for defeating an insurgent attack on a convoy in Iraq. She's credited with saving the lives of several soldiers.

SGT. LEIGH ANN HESTER: It was an adrenaline rush. You didn't have time to think, to be scared or what to think. You just had to get the job done. You had people firing upon you, and as basically, you were them.

ANNOUNCER: The Silver Star is the Army's third highest award for valor. The 23-year-old sergeant is part of the Kentucky National Guard 617th Military Police Company. The award comes weeks after some lawmakers in Congress tried to limit the role of women in combat. The Pentagon objected, and the measure was abandoned. QUIJANO: And before we leave you, we want to take you to a live picture at the Vietnam veterans memorial in Washington, D.C., where hundreds of men and women are gathering to remember their fathers who were killed in the Vietnam War, remembering them on this Father's Day.

And thanks very much to my colleagues, and thank you for watching ON THE STORY. We'll be back next week.

At the top of the next hour at 12:00 noon Eastern, "LATE EDITION" with Wolf Blitzer, and among Wolf's guests, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. Straight ahead, a check on what's making news right now.

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