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On the Story
Reporters Look Back at Covering London Bombings, Recent Hurricanes, Karl Rove Controversy
Aired July 16, 2005 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Our top stories now. At least 60 people were killed south of Baghdad in a massive explosion today. As many as 100 were wounded. A suicide bomber wearing a vest of explosives detonated near a fuel tanker parked near a gas station. Police call it a coordinated attack. They're suggesting the tanker's driver may have been in on it.
Scotland Yard has confirmed the identities of the remaining two suspects in the London terrorist bombings. They are 30-year old Mohammed Sidique Kahn and 19-year old Germaine Lindsay. Police believe the men carried out two of the train bombings. British police tell CNN the death toll from those attacks has risen now to 55 after an injured victim died overnight.
Hurricane Emily gaining more strength. It's now an extremely dangerous storm. Emily's winds are nearing 155 miles an hour, making it capable of doing catastrophic damage. The hurricane passed south of Jamaica and is on track to make a direct hit on Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula. It could be headed for the U.S. by Tuesday.
And Vice President Dick Cheney has completed another round of medical tests today at George Washington University Hospital in Washington. Tests reveal there's a mild irritation of his esophagus and also a vascular or blood vessel problem. Mr. Cheney is awaiting final recommendations from his medical team.
That's what's happening now in the news. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. Now to ON THE STORY.
JOE JOHNS, CNN ANCHOR, ON THE STORY: This is CNN and we are ON THE STORY. From the campus of the George Washington University in the heart of the nation's capital, CNN is on the story. Our correspondents have the stories behind the news they're covering. Welcome. I'm Joe Johns.
Christiane Amanpour is on the story in London as the terror investigation marches forward. Bob Franken is on the story of the political fire aimed at the president's right hand man Karl Rove. Ed Henry is on the story of the looming battle over the Supreme Court. Rick Sanchez rolls through Dennis on the story and a hurricane one, a new way to cover big storms. Photojournalist Mark Biello tells us how he was on the story of flood waters rising. And Sibila Vargas on the story of one of Hollywood's biggest days.
Our new edition of ON THE STORY will take you behind the scenes to show you how CNN covers the news. Our correspondents will be taking questions from the studio audience drawn from visitors, college students and people across Washington. Now straight to Christiane and London terror. Christiane, what did you see this week during that moment of silence one week after the bombs went off?
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it was incredibly moving as you can imagine. It was this Thursday and people at midday just simply stopped doing whatever they were doing. They poured out of their offices, cars, buses, all sorts of traffic stopped and everybody just stood and you could just see this huge panoply of all the different kinds of people that live in London, all the different religions and races, everybody very serious and very solemn and there was a moment not just of sympathy and solidarity for the victims, but of defiance. The mayor of this city had called for defiance and that is basically what happened.
JOHNS: Christiane, we have a question for you from the audience. What's your name? What's your question?
QUESTION: My name is Rahini (ph). I'm from Toms River, New Jersey and my question is, how is London handling the possibility of an anti- Islam backlash?
AMANPOUR: Well, that's an interesting question. All the police, the prime minister, the officials, the parliamentarians here, religious leaders, have insisted that there be no backlash and for the most part there hasn't. There have been some instances, but not necessarily in London, outside of London where some mosques have been attacked. But on the whole, it's been much, much less than people expected and certainly, that's given quite a lot of comfort to Londoners as they try to get on with their lives. And one thing that was very interesting was that in a big rally in Trafalgar Square, the same day as the moment of silence tribute, many, many people said don't let this divide us. Don't let this break this city and this country apart and every time there's a call for unity, there was huge applause.
JOHNS: What's your name? What's your question?
QUESTION: My name is Stephanie Harris and I'm from (INAUDIBLE) Michigan and my question is, do you think the recent London bombings have changed Britain's outlook towards the war on terror?
AMANPOUR: I don't think so. I don't think it's changed that at all. I think what's incredible and what is really a threat, England and certainly those of us who watched (ph) is the speed with which the investigation is proceeding, that already they've talked about and have named the principal suspects. They've issued a photo of one of them. They're trying to find out whether people had seen him, because his movements are unclear for about an hour because he's the one they suspect of blowing up the bus. I think that what's really (INAUDIBLE) shocking is that this has been home grown, that these were one of us if you like.
These people were British born and that's a first in Europe, because most of the terrorism, whether it be Islamic extremism or before that, has been from outside, whether they be groups of North African origin or Arab origin, but never before home grown and of course this is Britain's first ever suicide attack.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Christiane, Bob Franken. I want to ask the reporter's question and ask how you feel and how your colleagues feel, that the officials have shared information. Do you feel that you've learned as much as you'd want to know?
AMANPOUR: Well, I think that we've been impressed by the speed of the investigation. I think we were impressed that immediately the day of the bombing, there was this huge set up whereby all the emergency service, but the police services also told us as much as they knew and they've been telling us regularly. There's been a few discrepancies for instance. Originally, they told us there was no evidence yet to suggest suicide bombings, but that changed and they told us that when they found documents and clothing of the bombers. They told us at the beginning that it seemed to be a high explosive military kinds of explosives that were used. Now they're saying it was perhaps low- grade, homemade kind of explosives that were used. So I think the information has been good.
ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Christiane, this is Ed Henry. You mentioned defiance. Since these terror attacks hit people, commuters as they heading to work, what's it been like for people in London to get back on the buses, get back on the subway trains?
AMANPOUR: Well, they did it the very day after. We stood here last week just as the bombing had taken place and the very day after, people got back onto public transport. Of course, there was some interruptions naturally, but people did get back onto public transport. And they do so with a mixture, as you said and we've said, of defiance, but also because that's what they do. This is how they go to work. This is the public transport system and they just - it's practical, but also they don't want to give in and they don't want to see their lives and their lifestyles changed by this.
FRANKEN: Christiane, it's Bob again. The British tradition certainly going back to World War II is one of defiance. Is this something that was cited? Is this something that people are reminded of all the time? Winston Churchill and the blitzkrieg and all that.
AMANPOUR: Yes, you know, at the beginning they did. But I think this is just ingrained in this nation. It survived for so long, centuries of history here and I think people are just - you know, they've had this before. They've had these kinds of assault and there's a sense of just trying to get on with it and not be pushed into a corner or not be too afraid to carry on with their daily lives.
And I think politically also, people are wondering certainly about the war in Iraq. This is something that is terribly, terribly unpopular and although they're not giving into it and there's no suggestion that they would call for the British to pull out of Iraq. People are questioning that and saying, well, this is probably payback.
JOHNS: So another question Christiane, you sort of touched on it. It's the issue of bounce back. How long do you think it will be before London sort of gets back to normal or do you think we'll end up with a new normal, sort of the way it was in the United States?
AMANPOUR: Well, I'm not sure there will be such a massive pendulum swing the way it was in the United States. It's already bounced back if you like. They're dealing now with the profound shock of finding out who did these attacks and I think that's something that's going to cause a great deal of soul searching. That is causing a huge amount of really looking inward, looking at the cities and this country's culture of hundreds of years of inviting people from abroad in, people who were persecuted abroad and who came here for sanctuary and then of course, Britain's Moslem former colonies, former, as I said, former colonies and letting all these people in.
And I think there's going to be a lot of questioning about how did a community that was born and bred here, that have gone to school here, that have been productive members of the community, how did they turn against their own people?
JOHNS: Christiane, thanks so much for that. We'll see you back on the story.
From terrorism to a legal and political storm back here in the United States. At the center of it, President Bush's adviser Karl Rove. Our Bob Franken is back on the story after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're in the midst of an ongoing investigation and I would be more than happy to comment further once the investigation is complete.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNS: That's what passes for a polite no comment from the president to questions about whether this deputy chief of staff and long-time adviser Karl Rove had acted improperly, talking to reporters about the identity of a CIA agent. Bob Franken, you were on the White House beat trying to get more information on this story from White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan. Let's take a look at your ON THE STORY notebook.
FRANKEN: Whether it was because of pent up frustration or because of charges that the White House reporters have been too easy on President Bush, the briefing room at the White House was filled with questions, no, call them accusations, as the Karl Rove matter unfolded, were flung at the press secretary, Scott McClellan.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
QUESTION: After the investigation is completed, will it be then consistent with your word and the president's word that anybody who was involved be let go.
QUESTION: This is ridiculous. Do you stand by your remarks from that podium or not? QUESTION: All of a sudden you have respect for the sanctity of the criminal investigations.
FRANKEN: Reporters were firing what can only be described as artillery at Scott McClellan. He was trying to deflect it, perhaps with a verbal badminton racquet.
SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The White House is not going to comment on it, not going to get into commenting on it, continue not to comment on it.
QUESTION: Why have you commented on this during the process of the investigation in the past, but now you've suddenly drawn a curtain around it. Don't you owe the American public a fuller explanation.
FRANKEN: We tried everything, but it became very clear that no matter what questions the reporters asked, McClellan had his marching orders and the marching orders were not to budge.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JOHNS: Bob, things tense sometimes in that room, a lot of times in that room, but this looks like a real grudge match.
FRANKEN: Well, I think what's happened is, is that Scott McClellan and the Bush administration has treated reporters as sort of pawns. What they do is, if we ask a question, they deflect it and this was a chance, I think reporters saw, that OK, we've got them on the run a little bit. It's time to get some revenge here. Quite frankly, I think some of the reporters went a little bit over the top.
JOHNS: But is it sort of Kabuki theater in that room?
FRANKEN: How about sumo wrestling?
JOHNS: Exactly. All right. We have a question from the audience.
QUESTION: I'm Aaron Powell from Edison, Illinois. I was wondering, do you think reporters owe more allegiance to their sources or to their duty to act as a watchdog for the American public?
FRANKEN: I don't think those are inconsistent. I think that sources, you're talking about anonymous sources, sources provide information that they wouldn't be willing to do if they were identified. And so yes, I'm kind of a militant on that. I think that you should just not identify the sources short of a life or death matter.
HENRY: I think the bottom line is right now, this case has really put reporters under the microscope, because right now, we're having to really show sources that we're going to go the mat for them. And it's a very tricky business right now, trying to sort through all that.
FRANKEN: And there's several issues here. One of them is, one of the things that the reporters were jumping on and I mean jumping, was an inconsistency. Both the president and Scott McClellan have said in the past, if it was found that somebody was involved in these leaks, he would no longer work for the White House. Now they're back pedaling like crazy and they're walking backwards while we're chasing them.
HENRY: And you've been here a long time Bob, and you know that it's often said the cover up is worth than the crime and I think there was a lot of anger in that briefing room and the fact that Scott McClellan two years ago was saying one thing and now it's quite another.
FRANKEN???: And in fairness we have to say an alleged cover up.
HENRY???: Of course.
JOHNS: Another question from the audience. Hi.
QUESTION: Hi. I'm Caroline from Gainesville, Florida. I was wondering if you think that journalists should have the right to reveal security-related information without the threat of facing penalty?
FRANKEN: You know, that's an interesting one because - and I've been involved with this before, where I basically told the authorities no, I'm going to report that. It's important. So I guess the answer is yes, I do believe that. However, if I break the law, chances are I'm going to have to pay.
JOHNS: But there are limits too right? There's some information that is OK to put out and other information that you're going to run through somebody.
FRANKEN: And I voluntarily withheld information when I was convinced that it would affect somebody's life if I reported it.
JOHNS: Right. Well, the other thing that I think is really interesting about this is the potential for sort a precedent that affects reporters down the road.
FRANKEN: Are you talking about Judy Miller going to jail?
JOHNS: Exactly.
FRANKEN: It's already happened. In Cleveland, the "Plain Dealer" is withholding the story because it is worried that it would be required to give up some sources. This is what they mean by a chilling effect and it's of serious concern. I think what has happened is, most people have decided that the media are no longer really watchdogs and they don't care and don't support the media's desires to maintain secret sources. But there has to be an independent entity and that's us.
HENRY: And this precedent is coming at a time when the media is also under assault separately and credibility is on the line. I think those two are coming at almost a perfect storm and it's really an important time for the media to step up and show that we do have credibility and really open up the process so people understand that we're open about it. FRANKEN: Well, part of it is, what do you mean by we? Do we include Internet? Do we include blogs? Do we include the talk show people like Rush Limbaugh? How are the media? It's a tough question and really it's gotten so splintered, that one of the effects might be that credibility has gone down a bit.
JOHNS: All right. Thanks very much Bob Franken.
From the White House to the hurricane beat, CNN photojournalist Mark Biello joins us here in Washington and correspondent Rick Sanchez is in Atlanta. Both are back in a minute on the story.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JOHNS: We're on the story here at George Washington University. Hurricane season -- Dennis down, Emily on deck. We're joined by correspondent Rick Sanchez in Atlanta and photojournalist Mark Biello. We call him Mad Dog here in Washington, back from the winds and rains of Dennis. Let's look at Rick's ON THE STORY notebook describing a new way to keep up with a fast-moving storm.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This time, we'll use a specialized antenna, developed for CNN's Iraq war coverage. Instead of waiting for the storm to come to us, we will go into and move with the storm. We broadcast the first video while driving through what is now a practically deserted main highway as Hurricane Dennis begins to come ashore.
We drove and broadcast for 15 hours, while in the midst of some of the most powerful winds and rain that a hurricane can muster. Hurricane one, as the name implies, has become a first.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JOHNS: Question from the audience for Rick.
QUESTION: Yes, hello, I'm Alex. I'm from Tampa, Florida and I wondering, do you think the media will continue to endanger you anchors, by sending you back into the hurricanes?
SANCHEZ: Well, I don't think the media is in danger and anchors I think it's a decision that we have made in this thing we call journalism that we're going to go out and we're going to cover stories. Who better than us to be able to go out there and actually show you what is going on.
And if we can improve the technology so that we can tell people who may not have the benefit of being able to see exactly what's going on, what may be happening in their neighborhood, in neighborhoods that in many cases, they've evacuated, then I think we're doing a very important service for them. With that of course comes responsibility, the responsibility of knowing where you go and to protect your life and your equipment. And also the responsibility of being able to tell the story in such a way so that people understand what's going on, but not try to hype it any way. I don't think you need to hype a hurricane by the way.
JOHNS: Mad Dog, do you feel safe out there? You're risking your neck.
MARK BIELLO, CNN PHOTOJOURNALIST: Yeah, I mean we look at the risk. We take as many precautions as we can when we get into these areas. We look at areas where we can go for shelter, how the winds - there was one area I was coming across where there was a tornado coming across one of the roads and the police held us up. Yeah, we could have rushed through and gone across that road while that tornado was going, but no. You hold back and try to stay safe.
FRANKEN: You know what the biggest fear, what I've always had the biggest fear when I'm covering something like a war or a hurricane and I'll bet you'll agree with me Rick. It's that the equipment won't work.
SANCHEZ: Exactly. And we were using something this time which is so state of the art that it had never been used for this particular purpose and not only is it - not to go into a long explanation, but it's antenna which allows you to continue to broadcasting even while you're moving. But now, you're going 50, 60 miles an hour in a car. That's even difficult enough to figure out. But now figure winds of over 100 miles an hour that are crossing over this as well. That makes it even more difficult and that's what we were up against. We were so nervous and we put it together with band aids essentially.
JOHNS: But do you feel safe in that thing?
SANCHEZ: Listen, I've been covering hurricanes for something like 20 years. I was in the granddaddy of them all. That was Andrew down in south Dade, devastated the area. I got a pretty good idea of where to go, how to be as safe as you possibly can. Obviously the safest place to be is Albuquerque, when there's a hurricane going to Florida. But next to that, you get a feel. You have experience. You know where to shelter yourself, so that you're not exposed to an area where the wind's going to hit you at full force.
JOHNS: OK, Rick, hold the line here a minute. CNN photojournalist Mark Biello had his trained eye on the hurricane story. Let's check out his ON THE STORY notebook.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BIELLO: We were sent out, me and my producer, Daria Shelton (ph), were sent out to be a roving crew. We were roving around looking for other sideline stories. So we got to this town, St. Marks and found out that there was a lot of flooding. So I ventured into the water, wading into the water up to about my waist with the camera and some people, some of the local people came by and said, what are you doing in the water? If you want a tour of the town, why don't you jump in our boat and we'll give you a little tour around the town in our boat.
This boat was going right down Main Street. Right below us underneath the water was the whole storefronts, the town, businesses, everything. Everyone sees the boat, (INAUDIBLE) you see the waves coming ashore, to see the hurricane force winds, to see the trees bending over. But you know, in this case, no one really looked at the significant flooding in some of these towns.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JOHNS: All right. Now another question from the audience.
QUESTION: Hi, I'm Jane. I'm from Atlanta, Georgia. My question is, during your coverage of the hurricane Dennis story, what have been some of the most memorable stories you've heard from the victims.
BIELLO: I think their total devastation from their town. This was a small, sleepy fishing village, St. Marks. And these are just regular people that relied on fishing and boating and the flood waters completely destroyed, completely destroyed the whole town and their businesses with mud and muck and these people - a lot of people did not have insurance and it's something that you don't realize in a story this big, that you see total devastation of the businesses and what's the aftermath is going to be. Even though the store fronts are there and the buildings are intact, it's a total write off on the businesses and a lot of these people are completely devastated and destroyed.
HENRY: Hey, Rick, this is Ed Henry. I wonder, you were also featured on Jon Stewart's "Daily Show." He poked a little fun at you. What's it like to also be part of the story and there are folks out there who think that maybe news coverage is hyped during a storm. You've seen the other side of it. Talk about that a little.
SANCHEZ: Well, I think it's sometimes bound to happen by the nature of the fact that you're being whipped around in winds and to be honest with you, sometimes Ed, you just look downright silly when you're covering a hurricane and it's hard not to. I mean I wish I could be -- look exactly the way I look right now in this beautiful studio here at the CNN Center in Atlanta. But when you got winds whipping across at 110 miles an hour and you're trying to explain what's going on in a specific town, it's difficult not to do that.
So one of the reasons I cover hurricanes is to be on Jon Stewart, because I know that he's going to take any piece of video -- I'm kidding, I'm kidding. But I know that he's going to take any piece of video that looks like that and he's going to turn it around and put it on the air. The bottom line is though, it's extremely important for those of us in our profession to go out and cover a storm and -- see, if you're not in shelter far away and you have no contact with the outside world because the electricity is out and you've been there and you've got cabin fever. You've been there for nine hours. Those people want the information.
If you're sitting in New York watching TV, you may not care about the information, but those folks in those shelters, they need that information. They want that information and if I've received - I've received 600 letters from people saying, thank you for providing coverage at a time when there was the only place I could find out was from you, not only with this storm, but with others. So I defend what we do. I make no apologies for covering storms like this. JOHNS: All right Rick. Stick with us. Straight ahead, more on the story, hurricane, Supreme Court, the Emmys in Hollywood and a check on what's making headlines right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: More of ON THE STORY in a moment, but first, a look at what's happening "Now in the News."
Hurricane Emily is now an extremely dangerous Category 4 storm with winds near 155 miles an hour. That's almost a Category 5. It's half south of Jamaica and is on track to make a direct hit on Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula. Emily could threaten the Gulf Coast of Texas late Tuesday.
At least 60 people were killed and 100 wounded in a massive suicide bombing south of Baghdad. Iraqi police say the bomber detonated himself near a propane fuel tanker parked near a gas station. The blast destroyed an entire apartment complex and damaged a Shiite mosque.
Scotland Yard has confirmed the identities of the remaining two suspects in the London terrorist bombings. They are 30-year-old Mohammad Sadique Khan and 19-year-old Germaine Lindsey. Police believe the men carried out two of the train bombings. British police tell CNN the death toll from those attacks has risen now to 55 after an injured victim died overnight.
And in Los Angeles, the funeral was held today for the toddler who was killed along with her father in a police shootout Sunday. Police say the father was drunk and on drugs when he used his daughter as a shield from police gunfire. The child's mother and community activists say police acted recklessly.
That's what happening "Now in the News." I'm Fredricka Whitfield. Now back to ON THE STORY.
JOHNS: CNN is ON THE STORY.
Rick Sanchez and Mark Biello are with us between hurricanes.
I wanted to show you an ON THE STORY notebook from another of our colleagues, John Zarrella.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN MIAMI BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): When you're in that -- that eyewall, you just hear and see just blinding rain and wind, and the rain is going horizontally and you can't hardly hear yourself it's so loud. And then you're hearing things snapping and you're seeing things flying through the air.
(on camera): Here we go! Watch out for that aluminum! Watch out! Get back! Get back! Get back!
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Look at that! (INAUDIBLE) over there. Look over there! It's...
ZARRELLA: It's coming apart.
COOPER: That is aluminum.
(CROSSTALK)
ZARRELLA: It's all coming apart. The trees are coming down.
COOPER: Look at that tree! Did you see that tree went down?
ZARRELLA (voice-over): I think you're crazy if you go into any situation like this and you're not nervous. You'd have to be nervous.
(on camera): It's going to be difficult for us to even stand up out here.
(voice-over): It requires a -- a tremendous amount of people -- 60, 70, 80 people, you know, to pull off the coverage of a hurricane.
Covering a hurricane is miserable. Absolutely miserable. So you buy all the junk food you can, and Powerades or Gatorades and Pop Tarts and -- you know, this is the kind of stuff that we live on.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNS: Rick, you've been covering these hurricanes now for 20 years.
What do you take with you? How do you prepare?
SANCHEZ: A sense of knowing that hurricanes cannot be explained, and that they're all completely different from each other. The driest boots you can possibly find, or the ones that will dry and keep you -- dry clothes, and then snacks in plastic bags that will at least keep you fed, because you may not be able to feed yourself for quite some time.
But, you know, every hurricane's different. So you may go into one thinking, This could be two or three days. Andrew, I slept on the floor for three weeks after it was done -- in a parking lot down in Homestead, to try and help the people down there.
And that's an important part of it, Joe. It's not just the hurricane when it passes, but what happens after it. And sometimes we in the media need to give more emphasis of that. Because first it's fear, then it's the frustration of not being able to get into your home, not having running water or having to boil your water, not having electricity -- that's where sometimes the real story is.
JOHNS: Now, Mark, you've been all over the world in dangerous situations. But this was your first hurricane.
How did you prepare? BIELLO: Well, you know, you go into situations. And you can stay so dry, it -- everything was completely soaked that I just put on Tevas and swim trunks. And -- I mean, you're going to get wet.
And the problems that we have is with the camera lens. The humidity is so high that you have this condensation within the lens and the viewfinder, and it's very, very difficult to keep the images from not having that dew and that moisture within the different levels of the glasses within the camera lens. And sometimes we hair dryers, but you don't have time to completely keep it dry.
So it's very challenging with the equipment too, not breaking down.
JOHNS: Question from the audience.
What's your name? What's your question?
QUESTION: Hi. My name is Gwendloyn (ph). I'm from Mobile, Alabama.
And my question is, Do you feel that extensive coverage of an impending natural disaster like Hurricane Dennis or now Emily, creates more of an atmosphere of panic rather than providing the people with necessary and pertinent information?
SANCHEZ: Depends on how it's delivered. Depends entirely on how it's delivered.
If you just tell someone, Here's the facts: if this thing comes ashore near Mobile as a Category 3 hurricane with winds of 110 miles an hour -- if you live over here, 40 miles away, this is what you will experience, based on research that's been done over the last 100 years on hurricanes. That's useful information. That's something that's going to be able to effect how you prepare yourself for this hurricane.
Now, if I'm standing there with a blowhorn saying, We're all going to die, that's not useful information.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: So look for the guy who's giving you information that you're going to be able to use. And that's what we at CNN try to do.
FRANKEN: But do you ever worry that when you're covering a hurricane and showing how tough you are standing up to the hurricane, that you're not really doing the job of showing how extensive the damage is, that type of thing.
SANCHEZ: Yes, because that's different, Bob.
If you're talking about pre-hurricane, as it's coming onshore, or once the hurricane is there, all you can do is go to different areas -- and that's what we try to do with Hurricane One, and say -- Look, here's the bottom line too, Bob. We could just have a guy standing in front of a map for five, six, seven, eight hours.
But you know what? I've talked to enough meteorologists who told me that sometimes, that isn't enough information even for them. They're surprised to know that an area -- Ivan last year, for example. Panama City should not have been affected by a storm that far away. Well, it was. So oftentimes the numbers don't add up.
Being there, first person, tells the story in a better way.
BIELLO: And I also think, though, that we do have a duty as journalists to warn people. We don't have to hype it or panic people, but when you got tree limbs that are flying at 100 miles an hour, or like you saw the debris flying -- I mean, that could take your head off. That can kill a lot of people with what's picked up from the winds. Not just with the flooding, but of all the stuff and debris and the tornadoes that spin off these hurricanes.
JOHNS: Good point. Thanks, Mark. Thanks, Rick.
We will see you back ON THE STORY from hurricanes to the political storm over the Supreme Court vacancy. Ed Henry is back on that in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JOHNS: CNN's ON THE STORY, here on the campus of the George Washington University.
Big story in town this week getting bigger: the vacancy on the Supreme Court.
Ed Henry, you and I keep watching Capitol Hill, where this fight is going on.
Do you sense more tension even though there's no nominee?
HENRY: Absolutely.
You know, there was no hurricane in Washington but a storm of rumors about whether or not there would be a second vacancy. All week, we were on edge, everybody trying to cover this.
And it's very hard, because you've got to nail it down. Nobody wants to go on the air with a rumor. You've got to nail it down.
And one of the craziest rumors of all came on Thursday, when both of us heard that, basically -- that some female senators had written a letter to Sandra Day O'Connor saying, if Chief Justice William Rehnquist steps down, we want you to reconsider your retirement and be put up for the first female chief justice. Which is absurd, because the chief justice hasn't even stepped down.
And so in order to get that story, I found Barbara Boxer -- I had to get on an elevator with her. It was full of tourists and a baby carriage. We were up against each other; we were joking about how we both had used mouthwash and it was a good thing earlier in the day -- because how you got to get the story.
The short of it is, she didn't have a copy of this letter that she wrote to Justice O'Connor, so she finally just whipped out her cell phone, called her staff, had it read -- had them read her the letter. I'm jotting it all down so I can run to the camera. And all of these tourists are seeing there wide-eyed, like they're hearing the story before CNN viewers are. Because the senator is barking out the letter, dictated by her staff. So it was kind of fun.
JOHNS: That's fantastic. We...
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNS: We have a question from the audience.
What's your name? What's your question?
QUESTION: My name is Natalia (ph), from Fargo, North Dakota.
My question is, How will Chief Justice William Rehnquist's decision to remain on the Supreme Court affect the nomination of O'Connor's replacement?
HENRY: I think in a big way.
There's been a lot of nervousness among conservatives, especially on the Hill and the outside groups, that the president wants to name the attorney general, Alberto Gonzales. And a lot of conservatives -- for the O'Connor seat -- and a lot of conservatives think he's too moderate. And there was a lot of suggestions that if Chief Justice Rehnquist stepped down and there were two seats, there would be some more bargaining that maybe the president would split the difference and pick a hardcore conservative to replace Rehnquist, and then pick a more moderate, maybe Gonzales or somebody else, for the O'Connor seat.
Conservatives worried about that, because that wouldn't really change the balance of the court; it would be status quo. Now with only one seat, I think the pressure's really going to be on the White House to pick a conservative.
JOHNS: Another question from the audience.
(CROSSTALK)
JOHNS: Go ahead.
QUESTION: Hi. I'm Adam Beckham (ph), a student here at GW, from York, Pennsylvania.
What issues, both Ed and Bob, do you feel have not been widely discussed regarding the impending Supreme Court nomination?
FRANKEN: Well, first of all, the most important one is we don't know who it is yet.
And one of the things that's going on right now is the Democrats are saying, We want to be consulted. And so President Bush is consulting like nobody you've ever seen.
But that may be a trap for the Democrats. Because when he names his nominee, the Democrats will no longer have the complaint that they weren't consulted. And so it really takes a little bit out of the wind -- a little bit of the wind out of their sails.
JOHNS: And I heard that when the -- when the president had the meeting with the Democrats and the Republicans in his office, he didn't do any -- much talking. He didn't, you know, give up any names or anything like that.
HENRY: (INAUDIBLE) with consultation....
JOHNS: Right. Exactly.
HENRY: And the Democrats, on Thursday morning -- the other story I was covering Thursday morning real early, is that this Gang of 14 moderates met -- a lot of seven Democrats, seven Republicans.
They came out of that meeting -- the ones who averted the nuclear showdown over lower-court nominees -- and Democrats like Robert Byrd, the 87-year-old, fairly liberal, who was against the president on Iraq and almost everything else, came out and said, This president is doing a great job on consultation. And then everybody was falling all over themselves, bipartisanship, all that.
A few hours later, they were on the Senate floor beating the heck out of each over Karl Rove. And the bipartisanship evaporated in about four or five hours.
FRANKEN: You hear from every official, Look, we have to have a classy, dignified, non-controversial confirmation process. Do not hold your breath.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNS: Yes. So what is happening now on the Hill, on the Rove story?
HENRY: Well, I thought it was fascinating -- I'm on the Hill; Bob's over at the White House. And I'm watching the briefing, and he's sparring with McClellan, and everyone else is trying to get some answers. And it was an interesting game.
But meanwhile on the Hill, I was chasing some of the Democrats and trying to get them to react. I was, in fact, at a press conference with Senator Kerry and Senator Hillary Clinton, and actually asked Senator Kerry about the Karl Rove case. It made a little bit of news, and I think we have that sound.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: The White House's credibility is at issue here. And I believe very clearly, Karl Rove ought to be fired.
QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: I'm nodding.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: And what was happening there is that I was asking the follow-up, and I was trying to get Senator Clinton to come to the cameras as well to see what she had to say about Karl Rove.
She wouldn't do it. She just said, I'm nodding, agreeing, that he should be fired.
But I think the bottom line there is that while the Democratic base gets fired up when Clinton and Kerry get on board against Rove, that also fires up the conservative base. And that's one of the best things Karl Rove has going for him now, is with Clinton and Kerry and Howard Dean and others rallying their base, conservatives are rallying around Rove.
FRANKEN: What about also the fact that people don't like reporters, people don't like critics of the government, and maybe a White House strategy of sympathy, that -- because we have been so aggressive, that we start suddenly turning this around. And Scott McClellan -- poor Scott McClellan, who looked like a human pinata up there...
(LAUGHTER)
FRANKEN...starts suddenly to get the sympathy.
HENRY: Bob, people love you.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNS: All right, guys.
From Washington to California, Hollywood turns its spotlight on the Emmys. Our Sibila Vargas is back ON THE STORY after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JOHNS: CNN's ON THE STORY from here in Washington to California.
Sibila Vargas was ON THE STORY of the Emmy nominations. Here's her notebook about that early start on Thursday.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SIBILA VARGAS, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): People have been here since midnight, you know, getting this place together. The reason that they hold these things so early in the morning, 5 -- 5:45 is the announcement. They're getting that information as soon as those morning shows in New York or on the East Coast -- they want to make sure that they start off the day talking about the Emmy nominations.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Terri Hatcher, "Desperate Housewives."
VARGAS: The frenzy has just begun. Everybody wants to get that information -- who's the top dog? Who's surprised? Who got snubbed? All of those are big stories.
My day has just begun.
Back to the office to start writing these stories, start putting things together and start (INAUDIBLE).
(on camera): TV's top honors led a few (INAUDIBLE) on to the Emmy field, and at least one freshman player was certainly not desperate for nominations.
Last week -- you know, we -- we already knew that, you know, "Desperate Housewives" was getting incredible buzz, so we're already making those phone calls. It's just about setting up the interviews.
Who was the first person that you shared this news with?
TERRI HATCHER, ACTRESS: It was about 5:45; my agent called. And that's how I found out.
I don't know that I've actually told anybody.
VARGAS: So now the nominations are out. The question is, Who is going to walk away with that?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JOHNS: The ON THE STORY notebook of CNN entertainment correspondent Sibila Vargas, covering this week's Emmy nominations.
Sibila joins us live from Los Angeles.
And you have a question.
QUESTION: Yes, I do.
My name's Raven (ph) from Salt Lake City, Utah.
I was wondering the process is, or what does the board actually look for when a television show is nominated for an Emmy Award.
VARGAS: Well, they look for a lot of things.
Obviously, the acting, the writing -- you know, it depends on what -- what's you -- what's your -- what the category is. If it's acting, they want to see your best work.
And what's really interesting about the Emmys is that -- what I've found -- is that if you do not -- if you do not put in a good episode, you -- you stand a chance of actually losing. So it depends on -- if you're an actress, you'd better make sure that you're sending the right episode. And you talk to your network, you talk to the studios, and you make sure that they're going to represent you in the best way that they can.
I mean, somebody like Edie Falco, who's absolutely an excellent actress -- if she turns in the wrong episode, then the Emmys might not -- they might not recognize her that year.
JOHNS: Another question for Sibila.
What's your name? What's your question?
QUESTION: I'm Katie (ph) from North Ogden, Utah.
And HBO drastically took more Emmy nominations than any other network. Why do you think that is?
VARGAS: It has a lot to do with their programming, and this year they had 93 nominations. Last year, they had 124 nominations, which really shows you the powerhouse that they are.
They've been a powerhouse for over a decade now, and it has a lot to do with shows like "The Sopranos." "Deadwood" just came out last year -- I mean, two years ago. And that's such a -- they've got superior quality programming.
Also, their miniseries do very well. Last year, it was "Angels in America." This year, they have "Water Springs" (sic).
And so they -- they're -- they just -- it's the quality of programming that they put on the air. So I think it has a lot to do with that.
But yes, 93 nominations for -- for HBO. That's pretty good. And just to give you an idea, CBS had 59 nominations and ABC had 51. A lot of people that ABC, with "Lost" and "Desperate Housewives," that they would be the new top dog. But it's like HBO cannot be touched.
JOHNS: Got to throw in the disclaimer here: HBO is a sister organization of CNN.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNS: My question for you is, How much of this is sort of promotional in nature? How much of it is really about making money more than just fame, fortune and awards?
VARGAS: You know, I think it's a little bit of both.
But when you live in Hollywood, you know, it comes with the territory. This is a town that's got -- it's big bucks, you know? It's old Hollywood. It started on -- on making money.
But -- and it's also about fame. So, you know, I think it's a little bit of everything. You know, the Emmy Awards are very important. I think in terms -- it's the mack daddy of all the television awards. It certainly is.
And I think that, you know, for an actor, it really boosts the confidence. That whether an Emmy can -- can -- it can certainly not hurt you if you get an Emmy. But whether it can help you, not necessarily.
If you look at last year's example, "Arrested Development," a comedy. It wasn't doing very well in the ratings -- nobody was watching. After it got the Emmy, people were thinking -- you know, the critics were hoping that people would start tuning in. But that wasn't the case.
So, you know, it's -- it's -- it's interesting. It is about money, but it's also about, yes, the fame and just the -- the visibility.
HENRY: Sibila, it's Ed Henry, and I'm wondering: just as there was a competition for the Emmys, there's got to be a competition for these big interviews, like Terri Hatcher.
How did you get that one? What's it like, elbowing out your colleagues?
VARGAS: It's really tough.
You know, we had been making phone calls for -- since a month. A month in advance. And we knew "Desperate Housewives" stood a big chance because of the Golden Globes. They pretty much swept that. And also the SAG Awards as well.
So we definitely wanted Terri Hatcher. And that's for sure. So we had been making phone calls, and we made phone calls all of last week, making sure -- where would she be? You know, would she -- would she take an interview with us?
And it -- we were very fortunate. We got her. There was about six outlets, "Extra!," "Entertainment Tonight," CNN was there, there were about three others. And -- the competition though was very great. And everybody wants to get Terri Hatcher and they want to be able to deliver the news that day.
And sometimes -- you know, we had a live shot after my interview, an hour later. So we wanted to make sure that we got this -- this information and this tape in house. And it was very interesting because we got there early. We were on time; we were courteous. And then there was another outlet that came a lot later and was probably the fifth, you know, outlet to get there. And they wanted to go first. And they just got irate.
And that guy was sent all the way to the end. All the way to the end. So it pays to be polite and courteous and, you know, sometimes it's good to be aggressive. But it's also -- you know, you got to be a good person. You know, a human being.
JOHNS: That's right. A good lesson for those of us in the business.
Sibila Vargas in Los Angeles, thank you so much.
We're back ON THE STORY after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JOHNS: Thanks to my colleagues and our audience here at the George Washington University.
And thank you for watching ON THE STORY. We'll be back each week, Saturday night, Sunday morning.
Straight ahead, a check on what's making news right now.
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